Does the 4th of July mean anything anymore

[Igeteven]

Too me, it's no big deal, what I have seen over the last fifty years, I am really uptight with the United States.

When I was a kid, I used to go to a park and watch the fire works going off, there was a huge amount of WW 2 veterans there and everyone had a sense of pride during the Eisenhower years.

American, really meant something.

What I have saw was Kennedy being killed by the mob, The Vietnam War, and so call police actions going on with the U.S.

I also saw the U.S. Government change and change to almost a one way street like it doesn't care anymore about it's citizens anymore, just your vote.

When one needs help with the government, all one gets is this, give me your money and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.


Will the U.S. make it to its 300 birthday, as I see it now, no,


Any comments.

[chrisl]

I know what you are saying. It frost my ass that the majority does not realize the best holiday of the year. I have 4 major retro fits going on for a major chain {Wart Mart}. We had a meeting on Friday, The General Contractor was trying to get the subs to work through the weekend to meet there schedule. There was reps from this chain present. I told them NO. That the workers will get to be with there family's for the Holiday. I live in California, and the response was..Most of your employee's are Hispanic, and do not really care about our holiday. I got very upset, and I said a lot of Red, White, Blue remarks. I will see if I am still employed the first of the week. I know that times are very tough right now.....But remember... DO NOT TREAD ON ME.........Chrisl

[mostpost]

I received the following from my cousin. I thought the folks here would be interested.
Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men
>
> who signed the Declaration of Independence?


>
> Five signers were captured by the British as traitors,
>
> and tortured before they died.
>
> Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned.
>
> Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army;
>
> another had two sons captured.
>
> Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or
>
> hardships of the Revolutionary War.
>
> They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes,
>
> and their sacred honor.
>
> What kind of men were they?
>
> Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists.
>
> Eleven were merchants,
>
> nine were farmers and large plantation owners;
>
> men of means, well educated,
>
> but they signed the Declaration of Independence
>
> knowing full well that the penalty would be death if
>
> they were captured.
>
> Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and
>
> trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the
>
> British Navy. He sold his home and properties to
>
> pay his debts, and died in rags.
>
> Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British
>
> that he was forced to move his family almost constantly.
>
> He served in the Congress without pay, and his family
>
> was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him,
>
> and poverty was his reward.
>
> Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer,
>
> Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.
>
> At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that
>
> the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson
>
> home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General
>
> George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed,
>
> and Nelson died bankrupt.
>
> Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed.
>
> The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.
>
> John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying.
>
> Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill
>
> were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests
>
> and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his
>
> children vanished.


>
> So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July holiday and
>
> silently thank these patriots. It's not much to ask for the price they paid.
>
> Freedom is never free!

By the way, my cousin is a liberal, maybe more so than me.
We all appreciate the sacrifices of the founding fathers. It's just that sometimes we all need to be reminded.

[sonnyp]

what would the pieces of sh-t in washington today be willing to sacrifice ?

[Pace Cap'n]

I found it somewhat encouraging to see my Mexican neighbors, a nice young couple and legal AFIK, flying the American flag yesterday.

[prospector]

what would the pieces of sh-t in washington today be willing to sacrifice ?
us

[Tom]

I watched a story about a group of legal immigrants being sworn is as new citizens yesterday. People who saw a better land, better life, and who did what it took to become a part of it. Who will bring some of their culture to us and take some of ours in return. We will both be better off for it.

Nothing has changed since the Pilgrims stepped of the boat.

It is still a big deal.

[OTM Al]

I received the following from my cousin. I thought the folks here would be interested.


By the way, my cousin is a liberal, maybe more so than me.
We all appreciate the sacrifices of the founding fathers. It's just that sometimes we all need to be reminded.

What's sad is we don't even know our own history. How can we really appreciate it if we don't even care enough to understand who we are and where we came from

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/pricepaid.asp

[boxcar]

What's sad is we don't even know our own history. How can we really appreciate it if we don't even care enough to understand who we are and where we came from

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/pricepaid.asp

And that is by design. It all began with our schooling which discounts history or revises it so that it can better fit in with current political events, agendas, policies, etc. It is positively mind-boggling how many people today are history- illiterate.

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

Nothing has changed since the Pilgrims stepped of the boat.

It is still a big deal.
funny stuff

[46zilzal]

And that is by design. It all began with our schooling which discounts history or revises it so that it can better fit in with current political events, agendas, policies, etc. It is positively mind-boggling how many people today are history- illiterate.

Boxcar
bull crap.. One learns what really happened at the university level

[fast4522]

Bull Crap to you, revisionist filth. Its not about the required reading of any particular University.

[46zilzal]

Bull Crap to you, revisionist filth. Its not about the required reading of any particular University.
Spoken like the majority of people NEVER setting foot inside the halls of higher learning, YET they KNOW completely what goes on there. Crap

In university history courses you learn about the protagonists warts and all. The repetition of situations and not altering the outcomes the 2nd 3rd 4th 5th times the same conditions arise was the surprising fact to me: i.e stupidity of trying to garner and maintain empires...What a joke...... never worked once

[jballscalls]

Spoken like the majority of people NEVER setting foot inside the halls of higher learning, YET they KNOW completely what goes on there. Crap

spoken like the majority of people who look down their noses at people who didn't go to college for one reason or another.

i know there was much more HIGHER than learning going on at my Univesity!

[46zilzal]

nope only to those who have NEVER been to a place and then try to tell the world all about what goes on there. Akin to me telling you about Swedish mustard manufacturing.

[Dave Schwartz]

spoken like the majority of people who look down their noses at people who didn't go to college for one reason or another.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[JustRalph]

nope only to those who have NEVER been to a place and then try to tell the world all about what goes on there. Akin to me telling you about Swedish mustard manufacturing.

You act as if there is some kind of line of demarcation? Like there are only two choices ? People who went to college and people who didn't. What about those who have a year, maybe two years and have seen both sides?

In any other arena they may be called well rounded.......but not in ZillyLand

You either are "schooled" or not............

[Tom]

One reason this nations is so great - YOU MOVED OUT OF IT!
People like you who care only about themselves could never understand.
What a miserable failure of a human being you are.

[46zilzal]

One reason this nations is so great - YOU MOVED OUT OF IT!
People like you who care only about themselves could never understand.
What a miserable failure of a human being you are.
Apple Pie Mom Chevrolet rah rah

Just never fell for all that propaganda I was spoon fed all my life. Become a world citizen and get some perspective.

[boxcar]

bull crap.. One learns what really happened at the university level

Yeah, right? :rolleyes: Like the kids today are going to get the straight skinny from all the statists/liberals/progressives/marxists (whatever it is those wingnuts call themselves) who predominately occupy teaching positions? None of those whackjobs have any political agenda, do they? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
All the students will be be fed is revisionist garbage.

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

Yeah, right? :rolleyes: Like the kids today are going to get the straight skinny from all the statists/liberals/progressives/marxists (whatever it is those wingnuts call themselves) who predominately occupy teaching positions? None of those whackjobs have any political agenda, do they? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
All the students will be be fed is revisionist garbage.

Boxcar

ANOTHER one who has never ventured into the halls of where education in transmitted YET tells the world all about it like a pro.

An education makes you open you eyes and question everything not accept it all as gospel.......Having never been there I guess you wouldn't know that quoting all the malarkey that has been altered thousands of times since it was hand transcribed.

[boxcar]

Apple Pie Mom Chevrolet rah rah

Just never fell for all that propaganda I was spoon fed all my life. Become a world citizen and get some perspective.

Yeah, Tom, become that Mr. Worldly Citizen. World Citizens are noted for their open minds -- that are so wide that these self-proclaimed, enlightened, pseudo-intellectual types have the identical problem that BP does with this oil leak -- only they can't keep the raw sewage from gushing in.

Boxcar

[Native Texan III]

Spoken like the majority of people NEVER setting foot inside the halls of higher learning, YET they KNOW completely what goes on there. Crap

In university history courses you learn about the protagonists warts and all. The repetition of situations and not altering the outcomes the 2nd 3rd 4th 5th times the same conditions arise was the surprising fact to me: i.e stupidity of trying to garner and maintain empires...What a joke...... never worked once

"i.e stupidity of trying to garner and maintain empires...What a joke...... never worked once"

But is not Queen Elisabeth II, descendant of George III, still Queen of Canada?
Or have I got my history wrong?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8b/2010_queen_stamp.jpg/79px-2010_queen_stamp.jpg (http:///wiki/File:2010_queen_stamp.jpg)

[Tom]

Mr World Citizen.....sits in a nest on top of a Class 3 minor league track where he gets his "perspective." What a joke he is. :lol:

[jonnielu]

ANOTHER one who has never ventured into the halls of where education in transmitted YET tells the world all about it like a pro.

An education makes you open you eyes and question everything not accept it all as gospel.......Having never been there I guess you wouldn't know that quoting all the malarkey that has been altered thousands of times since it was hand transcribed.

It is now 15 years since I wrote the original TaxBuster Guide. This was going to be the first Forward, in 2002. I never thought it needed a Forward, but, now I think that maybe it would help to prepare you for what will follow. You see, I know now that I could never convince you, when what you will read in these few pages is completely opposite what you have been told for your lifetime. I know now, how difficult it will be to win you over...so, I'm going to not work very hard at it.
Instead, I will challenge you to think about what you already believe, and what you will be reading here, and more then that, question it. Knowledge has always been preceded by the question, so I will hope that I can bring up some very good ones here that will inspire you to consider the real, truthful answers.

Over the years people have asked me a lot of questions about income tax freedom, what amazes me still, is that it is such a foreign concept to so many. Some have suggested that I must be a lunatic for considering such an idea. Over the course of my life, the concept that government stands over the citizenry has always been the crazy notion. Especially when that same idea is supposed to mesh with the idea that our country is rooted in the concept of Liberty.

In reality, I thought that one must yield to the other, both can not exist in the same place at the same time. So the question was, which do we have now? Do we have federal rule, or do we have Liberty within the lawful framework of our Constitution? Seven years after starting the search for the real answer to that question, it seems that... yes, they do both exist in the same place at the same time. We can live under either one, federal rule, or Liberty. Which one anybody chooses, would depend on their own wisdom, and desire in exercising their own freedom.

Too many, in our society today, believe that the best exercise of their freedom is to surrender it in exchange for the empty promise of federally provided security, and the reality of federal rule. That is the bad news... the good news is that Liberty is still available to anyone who will claim it. Anyone who will believe in it, and stand responsible for it. This is often the more difficult, yet more rewarding path. While Liberty is not for the weak of character or faint of heart, I can say that it is accessible to all who will take it up and hold it as valuable. Just as it has always been.

I guess that was the biggest surprise in my search for the truth, that everything is as it always has been. For all of the talk about what is going on "these days", and how much things have really changed since the "old days". It seems to me, that nothing has really changed at all, except maybe the fashion.

It has been 235 years since that April day. Some one of a number of colonial Minutemen stood facing a regiment of red-coated British. He was probably scared, he probably had a family and several good reasons to not rock the boat and stay out of trouble. Yet he had made a determination for himself, to be a free man and to live in a free country. So, in honor of this determination, there he stood on the Lexington-Concorde bridge with many of his neighbors who had also determined their status. He took aim and fired. That decision and action started a revolution the like of which the world had never before seen.

We don't know his name, nobody is quite sure who he was...

It is an amazing story... the things that can happen when people get the idea that they are free. The history of our country demonstrates and proves that Liberty is the greatest provider of everything that causes mankind to thrive. Just the belief in it founded our nation. I believe that if we can get connected again to these roots there would truly be no limits to what could be. It all has started, and can continue, with just a belief.

Belief is a powerful thing, once you really believe something, everything within you goes into motion making your belief a reality. Then, the world around you starts to change and become more in line with your belief. In centuries past, common people dared to believe in the sovereign rights of all individuals. These men and women took courage to couple their faith and belief with resolve and action, because of that determination, a nation founded on the concept of individual Liberty was established for us to inherit.

From one determined patriot at Lexington-Concorde, to the 56 signors of our Declaration of Independence, many of whom never enjoyed the fruits of Liberty. From the slave who manned the cannons at Fort McHenry in 1814, just to die there in defense of an unknown... Liberty, to the veterans of Desert Storm and every mother's child that has stood in defense of Liberty. Each and every one determined to stand for freedom based on their unwavering belief that the Sovereignty of the individual is worth the effort. Worth the sacrifice. History has shown, time and again, that they are right.

It is strange when I consider the truth as I have found it, 235 years ago Americans lived under British rule, yet thought that their natural state should be to live in Liberty. They believed in that so thoroughly that they declared independence and threw off British rule in favor of self government with a due respect toward individual rights. Today, the same foundation is still just as valid as it was in 1776. Our Constitution is only stronger, having withstood tremendous assaults over centuries. Yet today, Americans have been made to believe that they are living under federal rule and are surrendering freedoms everyday. Everyday getting closer to making federal rule the status quo.

I hear it everyday, "the government is taking more and more of our freedoms" or "the government is taking more and more of our money in taxes". In reality, nothing is being taken, Liberty and property are being surrendered, waived, or given to government by a citizenry that has been duped into the ludicrous belief that by the surrender of Sovereignty, one can obtain government provided security. Recorded history shows this to be the oldest scam in the book of man's inhumanity to man.

So, everything is like it always has been. Evil grows when good men do nothing, and some people will always seek to have power over other people. So much for new ideas in the 21st century. On the other hand, evil has been growing in America for so long that going back to the Declaration could be something new for a great many people that still today, actually can determine a high value for Liberty.

In the pages that follow, I will challenge many of the things that you might believe about our federal government, and how to be free in spite of it. I'll give you plenty of evidence to consider, and hope that you will be close to convinced by the time you reach the end. But, the final determination will fall on your shoulders.

And, that is probably the way that it should be.

jdl

[RaceBookJoe]

You act as if there is some kind of line of demarcation? Like there are only two choices ? People who went to college and people who didn't. What about those who have a year, maybe two years and have seen both sides?

In any other arena they may be called well rounded.......but not in ZillyLand

You either are "schooled" or not............

I see a lot of the idiots in DC have major university degrees....thats really working out well huh. :bang:

[johnhannibalsmith]

...Akin to me telling you about Swedish mustard manufacturing.

You may as well go right ahead at this point.

[PaceAdvantage]

Apple Pie Mom Chevrolet rah rah

Just never fell for all that propaganda I was spoon fed all my life. Become a world citizen and get some perspective.The hard truth is, most of the world is a giant pile of shit when compared to the United States of America.

Note I did not say ALL, but most.

[newtothegame]

nope only to those who have NEVER been to a place and then try to tell the world all about what goes on there. Akin to me telling you about Swedish mustard manufacturing.

So there is something you haven't done??? lmao awesome!!! :lol:

[JustRalph]

The hard truth is, most of the world is a giant pile of shit when compared to the United States of America.

Note I did not say ALL, but most.

I was going to say it, but you covered it pretty well.

Now get back to practicing your Guitar so you can take on the Korean kid in the next Star Search!!

[Robert Goren]

The hard truth is, most of the world is a giant pile of shit when compared to the United States of America.

Note I did not say ALL, but most. I like to know who the "not all" are. I have racked my brain and can't come up with anyplace. There are places that somethings going for them, but I can't come up with anyplace that has as much going for it as the USA.

[JustRalph]

All of these headlines are from this year and most from the last two weeks.

Things are going so well everywhere else in the world huh?

Greece
Greeks Strike to Protest Austerity Plans
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/06/30/world/30greece_span/30greece_span-articleLarge.jpg

France
Thousands protest against job cuts in France

France ditches carbon tax as social protests mount
France is facing its own 'spring of discontent' as strikes shut schools, courts, railways and metro services, and trade unions vowed mass protests across the country.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01602/sarkozy_1602467c.jpg

Spain
Strikes in Greece, Spain over austerity measures
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/images/tile/2010/0630/1224273621756_1.jpg

Workers in Europe shut down Madrid subway

Italy
Demonstration in Rome protests austerity measures
http://www.wsws.org/de/images/rom-j16a.jpg

Germany
Protests in Stuttgart and Berlin hit government cutbacks
http://www.wsws.org/de/images/demo-j15a.jpg

Romania
Hundreds of Romanians try to storm palace
UCHAREST, Romania — Dozens of Romanians have tried to storm the presidential palace to protest austerity measures.
Anti-riot police repelled those who tried to force their way past barricades into the 17th century palace.
__________________________________________________ _____________


The same crap is going on in Britain and Argentina is getting ready to move toward Austerity measures......although the President says she is against it.

There is one common thread amongst these countries........I wonder what it could be............???

[BlueShoe]

bull crap.. One learns what really happened at the university level
Right, their radical profs tell them what evil men the founding fathers were because a few of them owned slaves. After that, the students are taught what wonderful ideas brilliant men like Marx and Lenin had, and how socialism is so much better for us than greedy American capitalism. Yep, the bull crap is sure there at the university level.

[Native Texan III]

"The same crap is going on in Britain and Argentina is getting ready to move toward Austerity measures......although the President says she is against it.

There is one common thread amongst these countries........I wonder what it could be............???"

No pictures of tea party riots and Washington Demos nor the latest mass murders nor the Gulf oil disaster? We must all be a very dull, docile and under the thumb then.

Would the common thread be corrupted banks following the broken USA model and having to be bailed out by their taxpayers - a bit like as in USA? There are many, many great countries all over the world. It's the good folks there and here that make things good.

[46zilzal]

Right, their radical profs tell them what evil men the founding fathers were because a few of them owned slaves. After that, the students are taught what wonderful ideas brilliant men like Marx and Lenin had, and how socialism is so much better for us than greedy American capitalism. Yep, the bull crap is sure there at the university level.
In all the years I was in school and in all the postgrad hours I have had to do over the 35 years I was in practice I ran into exactly ONE professor like you subscribe are commonplace and simply transferred out.


This has been the experience of the majority of my friends as well

[fast4522]

I tend to agree with this post in large part because the citizen in the USA has more rights than any other country, and in turn has a equal responsibility associated with those rights (a vested interest). I totally feel I owe no man anything but rather I owe it to myself to be responsible and not take my part lightly and fully understand others before me sacrificed so much in order for me to enjoy them. This is the American perspective that is one of many distinguishing factors. Unless we get a grip on things in November, the pictures of the police states in this thread is coming to a town like yours soon.

[46zilzal]

Police state? If the good old Patriot Act did not do it?

What GD hogwash

[fast4522]

Hey, I actually believe in this country, and feel its the best place on earth. I am so grateful it was not to your liking and you deserted it, I just wish more cowards would exit as fast as you did.

[Tom]

Ah, the last vestige of the uninformed - say Patriot Act and pretend that means something.

Ah, Bach!:D

[JustRalph]

"The same crap is going on in Britain and Argentina is getting ready to move toward Austerity measures......although the President says she is against it.

There is one common thread amongst these countries........I wonder what it could be............???"

No pictures of tea party riots and Washington Demos nor the latest mass murders nor the Gulf oil disaster? We must all be a very dull, docile and under the thumb then.

Would the common thread be corrupted banks following the broken USA model and having to be bailed out by their taxpayers - a bit like as in USA? There are many, many great countries all over the world. It's the good folks there and here that make things good.

First off, I am not aware of any "Tea Party Riots" just peaceful demonstrations

I was thinking the common theme is bing "Nanny States" or maybe Socialist in Nature. When you can retire at 55 and many retire at 50 and demand it from the government, then riot when they propose changes...... I think that qualifies as a Nanny State.

[JustRalph]

Ah, the last vestige of the uninformed - say Patriot Act and pretend that means something.

Ah, Bach!:D

The Patriot Act may have stopped a bomb going off in a mall my wife worked at. The Telephone surveillance program to be exact....... so I have a little bit different view of it.

So far I haven't seen an ton of "abuse" of the Pat. Act. So screaming "Patriot Act" over and over is kind of like the nuts who scream "Haliburton" every time Dick Cheney opens his mouth........

[cj's dad]

In all the years I was in school and in all the postgrad hours I have had to do over the 35 years I was in practice I ran into exactly ONE professor like you subscribe are commonplace and simply transferred out.


This has been the experience of the majority of my friends as well

Reference # 1569 regarding the fact that you went to a "university" and are a "doctor" !!

Congratulations - Please move on !!

[WinterTriangle]

For all of the talk about what is going on "these days", and how much things have really changed since the "old days". It seems to me, that nothing has really changed at all, except maybe the fashion.
jdl

jdl, I'm all for the concept. However, being free and self-sufficient requires working hard. Because somebody has to do the work that taxes pay somebody to do.

I watch re-runs of Little House on the Prairie. If you needed a road built, or a house, you did it with your own hands. You even had to make your own nails.;)

What's changed is that most people don't want to work like this. And I don't mean people on welfare. I mean normal people, conservatives or liberals.

Read my post in the immigration topic. I can't GET anyone to do any work.


Try and get your neighbors involved in a project if you don't believe me. Say, building a neighborhood garden or park. Give 'em shovels and wheelbarrows.

Then get back to me about how successful you were. :bang:

When I lived in another country, taxes were less. But people got together and weeded and cleaned their cemetaries. Everyone. You didn't pay taxes so that somebody else would do it.

IMHO, this country started to go downhill when everyone got over-involved with partisan politics, and stopped working together. When you're building a fence with somebody, you don't ask. You are just happy to get the help, have company while doing it, and work alongside of another person who you can respect for getting a job done.

Instead of Tea Parties, we should have fence-building or cement pouring or roof fixing parties, all over America. Neighbors helping neighbors with projects, and nobody asks or cares what political party you are.

WHEN you work with others, and can point to something you did together, you would be surprised the kind of respect you develop toward that person. And you could be a conservative and they could be a liberal. Throw back some beers, sit and look at your work, weary, but proud.

I've changed a *lot* since living in the boonies for 10 years. And it has convinced me that none of it has anything to do with what party you belong to. Lazy-ass people come in all colors, and all political persuasions.

[Native Texan III]

First off, I am not aware of any "Tea Party Riots" just peaceful demonstrations

I was thinking the common theme is bing "Nanny States" or maybe Socialist in Nature. When you can retire at 55 and many retire at 50 and demand it from the government, then riot when they propose changes...... I think that qualifies as a Nanny State.

One man's riot is another man's peaceful demonstration.
A view that only isolates as "truth" what you want to see is a partially blind view.

Sir, you allude to Greece on retirement. The "Nanny State" that gave those rights was a CIA backed military junta. Some Nanny! The current Socialist Government is taking the rights away.

Again you pick and bend facts to whatever your agenda might be which does not help with credibility does it?

"The reforms seek to prevent early retirement. Currently the average age of retirement in Greece is 61, though it is not uncommon for public sector workers to retire in their 50s.

Under the planned changes, the retirement age, which is currently 65 years for men and 60 years for women, will be linked to average life expectancy.

In addition, the minimum number of years someone will have had to have worked to qualify for a full pension will rise to 40 years from 37.

Pensions will also be reduced so that they reflect a worker's average working pay rather than their final salary. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10099143.stm

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the average retirement age in America is 62, and the average length of retirement is 18 years.

Hey we are 1 year worse than Greece! Where's Nanny?

[Native Texan III]

WT, :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Absolutely.
That's what America is all about.
Folks and family working together with true respect and pleased to be giving a stranger a helping hand. The cancerous disease of pointless partisan hate politics gets everybody exactly nowhere.

I see that folks in some States are now cutting the grass themselves at highway junctions as they can't see out of the turn. Hope the spirit spreads. Communities that care for others.

In Ireland they have Tidy Towns. Everybody gets up early one Saturday a month and works together to clean up all litter, streams and ponds. Kids grow up knowing they have to respect the environment and not use it as a trash can.

[JustRalph]

One man's riot is another man's peaceful demonstration.
A view that only isolates as "truth" what you want to see is a partially blind view.

Sir, you allude to Greece on retirement. The "Nanny State" that gave those rights was a CIA backed military junta. Some Nanny! The current Socialist Government is taking the rights away.

Again you pick and bend facts to whatever your agenda might be which does not help with credibility does it?

"The reforms seek to prevent early retirement. Currently the average age of retirement in Greece is 61, though it is not uncommon for public sector workers to retire in their 50s.

Under the planned changes, the retirement age, which is currently 65 years for men and 60 years for women, will be linked to average life expectancy.

In addition, the minimum number of years someone will have had to have worked to qualify for a full pension will rise to 40 years from 37.

Pensions will also be reduced so that they reflect a worker's average working pay rather than their final salary. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10099143.stm

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the average retirement age in America is 62, and the average length of retirement is 18 years.

Hey we are 1 year worse than Greece! Where's Nanny?



You accuse me of "bending facts" yet most of what you wrote makes my points? 17 posts in and you accuse me of having a credibility problem....whilst you talk in circles....... Ok..........you have a nice day...........

[WinterTriangle]

WT, :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Absolutely.
That's what America is all about.
Folks and family working together with true respect and pleased to be giving a stranger a helping hand. The cancerous disease of pointless partisan hate politics gets everybody exactly nowhere.

:ThmbUp: I bolded your last sentence, as I thought nail hits hammer.

BTW, I wasn't always non-partisan.

I once administered a current events/political forum. I remember how stressful the conversations were. That was over 10 years ago, I went back one day last year and the same people were still arguing, seemed angry all the time, at each other, and at the government, corporations, and politicians. Typing is not the same as running for office in grass roots beginnings, etc.

My idea was to quit all that, and instead put my energy into creating something where I wouldn't feel victimized by all of it, and create something that would make me feel secure and happy.

I set about creating a lifestyle. I bought land. I have a well, enough land for livestock, a vegetable garden that will feed a large family, a compost heap, no mortgage, a gun and a shotgun and know how to use. Planting low growing trees closer to house (though I'm in woods) for cooling and have a woodstove for backup cooking/heating and wouldnt run out of trees for oh, 10 years. A generator that can run things as long as there is sitll gasoline. When there's not, I have a neighbor's horse to ride me where I need to go. And access to rivers and streams for fishing........so, worst case scenario, the world starts looking like its coming to an end, I can pretty much survive without leaving the property. A far cry from where I once lived in NYC. When I get my goats, I won't have to hire any yard work done. :jump: I won't have to spray the poison ivy and oak anymore, either.

Decided 11+ years ago to start working on this. Even if I decide not to live there full-time, I know it's "there". My family thinks I'm nuts, you know, mom and brothers think "females don't do this stuff" and why would I want to work this hard. :D
I have never been wealthy, but once I decided to do this, I didn't rent movies, go out to expensive dinners, buy lots of shoes and clothes, IOW, stopped wasting money so I could plow it into buying land. I also worked a 2nd job on top of my day job, to pay down all my debt. When I have race winnings, I plow that into a fund to buy the next 10 acres next to me.

I say do something that makes you feel more secure and happy. Anger will eat you up. Life really is short.

[jonnielu]

jdl, I'm all for the concept. However, being free and self-sufficient requires working hard. Because somebody has to do the work that taxes pay somebody to do.

I watch re-runs of Little House on the Prairie. If you needed a road built, or a house, you did it with your own hands. You even had to make your own nails.;)

What's changed is that most people don't want to work like this. And I don't mean people on welfare. I mean normal people, conservatives or liberals.

Read my post in the immigration topic. I can't GET anyone to do any work.


Try and get your neighbors involved in a project if you don't believe me. Say, building a neighborhood garden or park. Give 'em shovels and wheelbarrows.

Then get back to me about how successful you were. :bang:

When I lived in another country, taxes were less. But people got together and weeded and cleaned their cemetaries. Everyone. You didn't pay taxes so that somebody else would do it.

IMHO, this country started to go downhill when everyone got over-involved with partisan politics, and stopped working together. When you're building a fence with somebody, you don't ask. You are just happy to get the help, have company while doing it, and work alongside of another person who you can respect for getting a job done.

Instead of Tea Parties, we should have fence-building or cement pouring or roof fixing parties, all over America. Neighbors helping neighbors with projects, and nobody asks or cares what political party you are.

WHEN you work with others, and can point to something you did together, you would be surprised the kind of respect you develop toward that person. And you could be a conservative and they could be a liberal. Throw back some beers, sit and look at your work, weary, but proud.

I've changed a *lot* since living in the boonies for 10 years. And it has convinced me that none of it has anything to do with what party you belong to. Lazy-ass people come in all colors, and all political persuasions.

There would be a lot less of lazy assed people if the government trough weren't as big wide and deep. Read the Grace Commission report to Ronald Reagan. It states that not a red cent of what is turned over to the federal jurisdiction in income taxes goes to pay for any legitimate services of government.

The brideges/roads/dams are paid for with the legitimate taxes that I and everyone else pay. 100% of the income tax is used to buy votes and make a self-sufficient people dependant on the federal jurisdiction.

Even if you wanted to build a bridge for your community, you can't do it once you've sent half of your income to the federal jurisdiction anyway. So, you pay for a 5 million dollar bridge, and get a $5,000 dollar bridge, that you can cross if you have the toll.

jdl

[Native Texan III]

WT,

Anger will eat you up. Life really is short

:ThmbUp: I bolded your last sentence, as I thought nail hits hammer.

I often think of the question "And what did you do in the War/ Recession Daddy?"

It is sad if the answers are along the lines:

"I got real angry"

"Why was that Daddy?"

"Someone was elected that didn't do the things for me and America I thought he should"

"What did you do about that Daddy?"

"Well I posted a lot of tough criticisms on an internet forum"

" Did the President read them Daddy?"

"Well maybe not"

"Teacher told us a prayer in class:
"God, give us grace to accept with serenity
the things that cannot be changed,
Courage to change the things
which should be changed,
and the wisdom to distinguish
the one from the other.""

"Do you have wisdom and courage Daddy"

" I'm taking you out of that school".


Congratulations and best wishes for the wisdom and courage in doing what is right for you.

[Tom]

One man's riot is another man's peaceful demonstration.

One man would be wrong.
NOT Ralph