Should Pat V be allowed to ride again in California?

[Igeteven]

Should Pat V be aloud to ride again in California at Del mar?

We all know his situation, How do you feel about it?

[point given]

ALOUD ? or Allowed :) If they had given him a lifetime ban then I'd opine that he used up all his chances, and no.

[Igeteven]

ALOUD ? or Allowed :) If they had given him a lifetime ban then I'd opine that he used up all his chances, and no.

After last night of wine, women and song, I am one french fry short of a happy meal

Thanks

Lester :bang: :bang: :bang:

[JustRalph]

Does this mean the whole time he rides he can't speak?

[Greyfox]

Does this mean the whole time he rides he can't speak?

:lol: :lol: Only in sign language.;)

I don't think he was barred for life in California. He got out of town fast for some reason. Maybe he caught wind that they were going to test him. All I remember is that the circumstances under which he departed were somewhat nebulous.
Someone on the board can probably remember the specifics better than me.
If so, why did he go??

[nearco]

I think he should ride quietly.

[rwwupl]

:lol: :lol: Only in sign language.;)

I don't think he was barred for life in California. He got out of town fast for some reason. Maybe he caught wind that they were going to test him. All I remember is that the circumstances under which he departed were somewhat nebulous.
Someone on the board can probably remember the specifics better than me.
If so, why did he go??


Memory serves that he has had 9 "Lifetime" sentences in California. :blush:

[Greyfox]

Memory serves that he has had 9 "Lifetime" sentences in California. :blush:

I haven't found a link that says they were "Lifetime sentences."
However, if they were, it just shows how lenient California is in enforcement of decisions.
However, my memory is that when he left the last time, he was not suspended.
The wikipedia link below says that he had a "conditional license" that was suspended once in 2006 and twice in 2007 for violation of the conditions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Valenzuela

[DJofSD]

Make him a steward.

[rwwupl]

I haven't found a link that says they were "Lifetime sentences."
However, if they were, it just shows how lenient California is in enforcement of decisions.
However, my memory is that when he left the last time, he was not suspended.
The wikipedia link below says that he had a "conditional license" that was suspended once in 2006 and twice in 2007 for violation of the conditions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Valenzuela



Additional information, P.Val...

http://horseracing.about.com/library/weekly/aa020500a.htm (2000)

http://horseracing.about.com/cs/news/a/aa012504a.htm (Jan. 2004)

http://horseracing.about.com/od/latestnews/a/aa080804a.htm (Aug. 2004)

http://horseracing.about.com/b/2004/07/04/pat-valenzuela-suspended-again.htm (July2004)

http://horseracing.about.com/od/latestnews/a/aa011105a.htm (2005)

[thaskalos]

Whenever horseplayers feel the need to voice their displeasure with the sport's drug policies...all they have to do is point at Pat Valenzuela...

[rwwupl]

Whenever horseplayers feel the need to voice their displeasure with the sport's drug policies...all they have to do is point at Pat Valenzuela...



The record is what it is...Who is happy with the drug policies?

[thaskalos]

What I mean is that this man has made a mockery of this sport, with all his excuses, absences, "mock" injuries, hair shaving incidents etc...

How can a sport claim to have drug policies in place...when they grant riding licences to him time after time.

Enough is enough...

[Greyfox]

Additional information, P.Val...

http://horseracing.about.com/library/weekly/aa020500a.htm (2000)

http://horseracing.about.com/cs/news/a/aa012504a.htm (Jan. 2004)

http://horseracing.about.com/od/latestnews/a/aa080804a.htm (Aug. 2004)

http://horseracing.about.com/b/2004/07/04/pat-valenzuela-suspended-again.htm (July2004)

http://horseracing.about.com/od/latestnews/a/aa011105a.htm (2005)

Yes, I'm aware he's been suspended many times.
Which link says "Lifetime Suspension?"

[rwwupl]

Yes, I'm aware he's been suspended many times.
Which link says "Lifetime Suspension?"


After each lifetime suspension, and his license is renewed, conditional or not, the term "lifetime" is no longer used. I am going from memory on this, because I was there at the time,every time.

I do not think my memory has failed, but I do not wish to spend more research time to make a point such as this.

The point is,his career has been a public relations disaster for horse racing and himself, considering his natural talent. It is hard after a while to keep track of the disasters he has created.

[rwwupl]

After each lifetime suspension, and his license is renewed, conditional or not, the term "lifetime" is no longer used. I am going from memory on this, because I was there at the time,every time.

I do not think my memory has failed, but I do not wish to spend more research time to make a point such as this.

The point is,his career has been a public relations disaster for horse racing and himself, considering his natural talent. It is hard after a while to keep track of the disasters he has created.




Add.,...http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?id=1967223
Excerpt:

Sadly, this is the progression that racing fans have come to expect:

Valenzuela tests positive for cocaine, which happened once, or, more routinely, he calls in "sick" and then skips his drug testing session, for which he is suspended by the track stewards and the California Horse Racing Board.

The authorities vow he will never be allowed to return. He serves a suspension. He goes into rehab. He finds Jesus. He is a changed man, he says. He also hires a good lawyer.

Valenzuela gets his license back. Despite being absent for a year -- sometimes less, sometimes more -- he immediately dominates the jockey standings as if he had never been gone.

He stays clean for a year -- sometimes less, sometimes more. Then he drops out of sight, and the whole process begins anew, occasionally with a few bizarre moments such as a full-body shave thrown in for dramatic flair.

This vicious cycle wouldn't get as much publicity if Valenzuela, now 42, were not the best jockey in Southern California and one of the best in the world. When he is available, owners and trainers rush to obtain his services. The $2 bettors make almost every horse he rides a shorter price than it deserves to be. He often proves them right. In 2003, P-Val was leading jockey at all five major Southern California race meets, a feat that hadn't been accomplished in two decades.

[ronsmac]

Of course he should be allowed to ride. If every track enforced lifetime bans for multiple drug offenses, then why aren't more trainers and horses banned for their drug positives.

[Stillriledup]

Cats with 9 lives are jealous of this guy.

My answer is no.

[rwwupl]

This gives an overview of the P.Val. thing...

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/board_decisions/Decision_BS_09_18_08.pdf

Item #8 gives a brief history of repeated violations and the language each time says if he violated the conditions he would be permanently ineligible to apply for re-license. years 2002,2003 2004,2005,2006...some years contain the words "summary termination" of licenses.

I recall the serious stuff started in 1997, but the records are sketchy, but that is the record, and he is going to try again in August... but I think the CHRB will be prepared by then...we will see.

[Igeteven]

Pat will ride, he is 42 years old, he knows he is on the way out, however, I believe he will go straight as an arrow and do a good job.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I don't really understand why Pat cares so much about riding there at this point.

His riding strengths don't necessarily jive with the neo-Cal poly-racing, he's a standout in the jurisdictions in which he has been riding, and generally, the purses that he's been competing for in the various slot-boosted circuits aren't all that much worse than those in most overnight races in Cal...

...surely he isn't under the impression that showing up to compete with the likes of Bejarano, Rosario, Gomez, Garcia, Baze, etal for mounts in fields of five and six is going to make him ultra-wealthy, lead him to the Derby and Breeder's Cup, and somehow etch a positive spin on his career struggles...

I like the guy and his riding, but making this move now just seems like wasting time and existing business.

[BlueShoe]

P. Val is 47, already past the peak of where a riders skills start to decline, even the great ones that have not abused themselves. If he does ride in SoCal, most likely his winning pc would be in single digits. His no longer top skills and checkered past will not get him choice mounts against a still very formidible jockey colony. Should he be allowed to ride? Just how many "Give me one more last chance" does a person get? Mr. V. has already been given more than his share. I say :ThmbDown:

[Hedevar]

What Pat Val will find is there is a big difference between getting mounts and winning a race at Louisiana Downs and doing the same in Southern California, where people have long memories. Not to add the weight problem. I really don't understand his reasoning.

[Bruddah]

What Pat Val will find is there is a big difference between getting mounts and winning a race at Louisiana Downs and doing the same in Southern California, where people have long memories. Not to add the weight problem. I really don't understand his reasoning.

If PVal stays true to form (PP's), it means more money for nose candy and attorneys. The powers to be will allow him to ride until he hurts himself or someone else. I say a lifetime ban from all tracks. Maybe that will be enough to bring him to reality. Tough love is the only way to help addicts. :ThmbUp:

[therussmeister]

I don't really understand why Pat cares so much about riding there at this point.

His riding strengths don't necessarily jive with the neo-Cal poly-racing, he's a standout in the jurisdictions in which he has been riding, and generally, the purses that he's been competing for in the various slot-boosted circuits aren't all that much worse than those in most overnight races in Cal...

Plus, I'm guessing the cost-of-living in Louisiana is less than So. Cal.

[Pace Cap'n]

I don't really understand why Pat cares so much about riding there at this point.


For a shot at a ride in the Derby.

IMO, if his fellow jocks don't mind riding with him, and he has fulfilled his terms and conditions, then let him ride.

[nijinski]

This makes me think of the Md circuit . where Ron Franklin was denied
his license after several attempts to come back.
They must be tougher there.
They did allow him a license to excercise horses though.

Valenzuela's reinstatements have been discouraging. I always had hopes he
would be thankful and do his best to stay clean. Some people are just not
strong enough to overcome addictions , it's complex subject matter , but
I agree the other riders need to have voice in that decision.

[statepierback]

:lol: :lol: Only in sign language.;)

I don't think he was barred for life in California. He got out of town fast for some reason. Maybe he caught wind that they were going to test him. All I remember is that the circumstances under which he departed were somewhat nebulous.
Someone on the board can probably remember the specifics better than me.
If so, why did he go??
He was arrested in Upland, California around Christmas time. He was reported to have left a family gathering and was stopped near a McDonald's. His blood alcohol level tested above the legal limit and he was taken into in. He left the state months later.

[Robert Goren]

I am all for giving people 2nd chances ... umpth chances, but at some point you have to say " I have a business to run and you are interfering with that." It is past time that he become someone else's problem.

[Eddie W]

Yes P.V Should be able to ride again in Calif...He was one of the best
jockey we had here in Calif...I remember one time he save a child from
a fire in pasadena Calif, a long time ago....Yes he has his problems
but boy can he ride a horse.........

[Robert Fischer]

I think in a situation like this you want to do everything you can to give the man a chance to continue to earn an ongoing probationary opportunity. There have to be different stages. -At some point a man loses equal opportunity and freedom afforded to others. Make him jump through some hoops. If he isn't willing to jump through hoops and remain clean, then officially ban him.

[DJofSD]

I think in a situation like this you want to do everything you can to give the man a chance to continue to earn an ongoing probationary opportunity. There have to be different stages. -At some point a man loses equal opportunity and freedom afforded to others. Make him jump through some hoops. If he isn't willing to jump through hoops and remain clean, then officially ban him.
All of that consideration has happened already. There's a long history.

A life time ban for Pete Rose and one for PVal.

[Robert Fischer]

All of that consideration has happened already. There's a long history.

A life time ban for Pete Rose and one for PVal.

Then who posted this topic??

I gave the thread-starter the "benefit of the doubt" for knowing the status of 'PVal

[Hedevar]

As of right now an Administrative Law Judge has held that PVal is permanently inelgible to apply for or hold a jockeys license in California. The holding was adopted by the CHRB. This dispute has not even made it to a trial court and is far from over.

[Wickel]

Let Him Ride! Hey, I'm sensing a sequel here. Where's Richard Dreyfuss!!

[rwwupl]

This additional record of Pat Valenzuela has been provided by the CHRB Information Officer Mike Marten... Thank you Mike.....


DISCIPLINARY RECORD OF PAT VALENZUELA
(EXCLUDING RIDING INFRACTIONS AND MINOR OFFENSES)

Jan. 27, 1983: Fined $100 for violation of CHRB Rule 1530 (Cases not covered by rules or regulations) for failure to follow established procedures for being excused from mounts.
March 5, 1988: Fined $500 and suspended for balance of meet (through April 25, 1988) for violating CHRB Rule 1547 (Failure to appear before the stewards) in regards to failing to follow established procedures for being excused from mounts (1530).
June 9, 1988: Suspended by New Mexico authorities; license reinstated June 13, 1988.
Oct. 27, 1989: Suspended 60 days for testing positive for cocaine. As a condition of reinstatement, enrollment and continued participation in a rehabilitation program.
Dec. 22, 1990: Suspended six months for violation of CHRB Rule 1872 (Failure to fulfill jockey agreement) in failing to honor the terms and conditions of probation contained in the October 27, 1989, ruling. Placed on probation through December 31, 1992.
March 18, 1993: Suspended five days for violating Rule 1530.
Sept. 8, 1993: Fined $100 (1530).
Sept. 18, 1993: Fined $100 (1530).
Jan. 22, 1994: Fined $1,000 (1530).
Oct. 13, 1994: Suspended indefinitely for violation of Rules 1547 and 1530. Following his appearance, on November 3, 1994, the indefinite suspension was set aside and he was suspended 20 days.
July 27, 1995: Suspended indefinitely for violation of Rules 1547 and 1530. Following his appearance on August 5, 1995, the indefinite suspension was set aside and he was suspended for the entire Del Mar meet through September 13, 1995.
Oct. 16, 1997: Suspended indefinitely for failing to follow established procedures for being excused from mounts (1530).

Sept. 18, 1999: Re-licensed by CHRB under terms of agreement for continued treatment with Winners Foundation and random testing.
Feb. 11, 2000: Suspended through September, 2000, for violation of CHRB Rule 1489(h) (Engaged in the use of a dangerous drug – amphetamine).
March 30, 2001 CHRB denied application for license based on steward’s recommendation following fitness for licensure hearing at which respondent failed to submit sufficient evidence to document continued sobriety.
Dec. 14, 2001 CHRB issued conditional license, renewed annually.
Jan. 23, 2004 Suspended pending hearing by stewards for failure to comply with terms of agreement for conditional license; did not appear for test as instructed January 22.
April 2, 2004 Following formal hearing, suspension of January 23 upheld through balance of 2004; recommended to be eligible for fitness for licensure hearing for re-evaluation as of January 1, 2005.
April 16, 2004 CHRB Chairman John Harris issued a stay of the January 23 suspension pending appeal. Valenzuela resumed riding April 25.
May 18, 2004 Board upheld January 23 stewards’ ruling following appeal hearing but reduced suspension to four months, less three months for time served, with balance of 30 days to be served June 1-30. Board also ordered 100 hours of community service in calendar year 2004 and that Valenzuela be subject to testing of hair follicles.
July 2, 2004 Hollywood Park Stewards issued summary suspension, effective immediately, pending official hearing after Valenzuela could not provide hair samples as required by May 18 order of the Board.
August 6, 2004 Del Mar Stewards, following a hearing, issued a suspension through December 31, 2004, for violation of license agreement (July 2), and recommended that Valenzuela not be considered for future licensing by CHRB.
January 7, 2005 Racing commissioners adopted administrative law judge’s recommended decision to grant Valenzuela’s appeal of July 2 and August 6 suspensions on grounds he complied with new term of conditional license by agreeing to provide “hair follicles” for testing on July 2.
January 12, 2005 Valenzuela received conditional license effective January 13, 2005, through December 31, 2005. New conditional license agreement requires Valenzuela to “maintain hair upon his head that is a minimum of one and one-half inches in length and of sufficient quantity (minimum 150 strands/shafts) to submit a satisfactory sample for hair strand/shaft testing.”
Nov. 14, 2007 Valenzuela received conditional license effective immediately through December 31, 2008. License agreement similar to previous agreement.
Dec. 28, 2007 Executive Director Ingrid Fermin revoked Valenzuela’s conditional license for violation of one or more of its conditions.
Sept. 18, 2008: The CHRB adopted the proposed decision of Administrative Law Judge Daniel Juarez ordering “1. Respondent Patrick Valenzuela’s conditional license is revoked. 2. Respondent Patrick Valenzuela is permanently ineligible to reapply for, or to hold, a license issued by the California Horse Racing Board.”
May 29, 2009: The CHRB prevailed in Superior Court on appeal from the September 18, 2008, Board decision.

[Stillriledup]

Didnt he miss the 1989 BC Classic riding Sunday Silence because of this suspension?