Segregation in Boston is really unusual. Anyone else live here? Like the "Deep South"

[Zippy Chippy]

I grew up in the Boston area my whole life. I found it normal that in Boston its blacks and whites, but you go 2 miles south of Boston into Southie and its ALL whites and they dont like the blacks, you go another 2 miles south to Roxbury and its ALL blacks and hate the whites. You go to East Boston, all whites, you go to Dorchester, mostly blacks. Its all Boston though. I had mentioned this to friends that live in other places and they found it fascinating. Im a Howard Stern fan and he went to Boston Univ. I called the show to talk about it and he said its unlike any other place. He said he's never seen segregation like this. Its weird this day and age its still like that.

[RaceBookJoe]

I grew up in the Boston area my whole life. I found it normal that in Boston its blacks and whites, but you go 2 miles south of Boston into Southie and its ALL whites and they dont like the blacks, you go another 2 miles south to Roxbury and its ALL blacks and hate the whites. You go to East Boston, all whites, you go to Dorchester, mostly blacks. Its all Boston though. I had mentioned this to friends that live in other places and they found it fascinating. Im a Howard Stern fan and he went to Boston Univ. I called the show to talk about it and he said its unlike any other place. He said he's never seen segregation like this. Its weird this day and age its still like that.

I recall Harrisburg,PA being a little like that also back in the early to mid-90's when i was last there. One side of the river was white-biased while the other side was black-biased. I am sure there are other towns like that. There are other areas in other towns that lean to a certain ethnicity....thinking about the Federale Hill area of Providene,RI...which is an Italian section of the city. rbj

[Grits]

Zippy, how much time have you spent, recently, in "the South", mid or deep?

[Zippy Chippy]

Zippy, how much time have you spent, recently, in "the South", mid or deep?

Not much. I was quoting Howard Stern. He said, "I haven't seen or heard of segregation like this since the deep south"

[boxcar]

The divisiveness of Identity Politics of the Dem(on)s promote and encourage this kind of thing. But what would we expect? Racists never become color blind. In fact, they're obsessed with race.

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

Last night I dreamed that I won the Indy and took the checkered flag.
All excited, I awoke. Crap. I was in Boston.


http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/transportation/images/Automobilia%20Page/indy-checkeredflag1.JPG.

[sandpit]

The divisiveness of Identity Politics of the Dem(on)s promote and encourage this kind of thing. But what would we expect? Racists never become color blind. In fact, they're obsessed with race.

Boxcar

They may be, but it's by far exclusive to Dems. Take a drive anywhere on the backroads of Kentucky, which voted overwhelmingly Republican in the last presidential election, and you will see rapant racism.

[bigmack]

Take a drive anywhere on the backroads of Kentucky, which voted overwhelmingly Republican in the last presidential election, and you will see rapant racism.
Sounds like first hand knowledge. Can you cite examples of this rampant racism you saw, or was it rapant?

[boxcar]

They may be, but it's by far exclusive to Dems. Take a drive anywhere on the backroads of Kentucky, which voted overwhelmingly Republican in the last presidential election, and you will see rapant racism.

But it's not the Republican Party who promulgates the divisive and despicable Identity Politics -- who play the race card at every turn. And if you want to cite Republican voters who you claim are racists, I suggest, sir, all you have to do is look no farther than in D.C. to government officials! As I told 'cap in another thread recently, our mighty fine black A.G. (possibly at the directive of of our black president) ordered a white prosecuting attorney to drop all charges against some Black Panthers who clearly violated the Voting Rights Act by intimidating people at some polling place. It was an airtight case because it was all captured on video, yet these black guys got a free pass under Holder. Justice is blind, eh? As blind as BO and Holder are when it comes to the color of people's skins? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[ElKabong]

from his stated comment, it appears Howard Stern really needs to get out and experience the world a lil bit more. Living in a world of preconception and stereotyping can be embarrassing

[WinterTriangle]

from his stated comment, it appears Howard Stern really needs to get out and experience the world a lil bit more. Living in a world of preconception and stereotyping can be embarrassing

Listening to talk radio seems to turn many people into experts in sociology, political science, and demographics.

I visit several elderly shut-ins and their only take on things is what they hear from the shock jocks.

That said, I believe most people like to be around people like themselves. It is human nature. Most caucasian folks would not wish to be in an entirely Korean enclave, etc. Ethnicities lived together in neighborhoods since immigration and the melting pot began in America. My grandparents lives in a neighborhood that was somewhat Russian......Irish people lived in a different part of town. When I lived in New Haven, there is still a wonderful "mostly Italian" neighborhood, several generations of families living in same square mile for over a century. If you enjoy certain aspects of your heritage, it's wonderful to be able to walk to the corner and have cannoli's, espresso, pizza, and deli's that cater to italian food and baked goods. :jump: Ditto, if you're Asian, it's nice to live among neighbors who eat what you eat, worship the way you do, and have the same cultural expression. Most people seem not to like being a 'stranger in a strange land.'

I don't see that as racist at all. Horse racing fans like being part of a "community", or there wouldn't be hr forums.

[jballscalls]

I remember noticing segregation a bit when i first moved to cincinnati. It seemed all the blacks lived in Over the Rhine or near the U of Cincy, and the whites would never go down there and they didn't venture out to the burbs.

i'll never forget moving there and asking my new neighbor if there was any good Teriyaki restaurants in town.....he looked at me like he'd seen a ghost and had no clue what teriyaki was. it was soon after i realized there were just no asian people LOL

[jballscalls]

Sounds like first hand knowledge. Can you cite examples of this rampant racism you saw, or was it rapant?

good friend of mine works at CD and turfway, lives in Louisville and said he's amazed at how much overt racism he sees and hears there. says he can't even count on his fingers and toes the number of times he's heard the potus referred to as the N-word, and hears the word way more there than he ever heard it living here in the NW.

Only when living in ohio/kentucky did i hear the word colored, probably heard it 5 times in 3 years, never have heard it over here in the PNW. everyone is really politically super correct here, unless it involves white people, them it's ok to slam for some reason

[Greyfox]

"Birds of a feather, flock together."
It is human nature to feel more comfortable and safe with people who we perceive to be similar to us than different from us. That holds for color, values, religion, education, economic standing and so on.
While skin color is a contributing factor, it is not necessarily the most important factor.

[PhantomOnTour]

I think Winter Triangle summed it nicely. :ThmbUp:

As a white person, the majority of my friends are also white. I imagine an Hispanic person having mostly Hispanic friends, black folk having mostly black friends, etc...it's not hate or racism; it's comfort. Turkish immigrants to America are not racists because they seek out other Turks to associate with. People naturally segregate themselves.

When I attended LSU in the late 80's to early 90's the white and black folk ate, for the most part, in separate dining rooms....by choice. The main cafeteria/food hall had a kitchen with two buffet lines and dining rooms on either side. For whatever reason the white folk ate in one room and the black folk in another. The food and dining accomodations were exactly the same in both rooms. It was never a hostile thing (and the dining rooms weren't 100% white or black, but it was pretty close).

Segregation occurs along employment lines too....cops probably have mostly cop friends. Millionaires mostly hang with millionaires, athletes with athletes, etc...

This natural segregation is not racism imo. Racism is a whole 'nother animal and I hate to sound like the Reverend, but it is alive and well in America.

[jballscalls]

I think Winter Triangle summed it nicely. :ThmbUp:

As a white person, the majority of my friends are also white. I imagine an Hispanic person having mostly Hispanic friends, black folk having mostly black friends,
.

very true post Phantom. one of my stupid pet peeves in life is white people who always say "i have lots of black friends" and wear it like a badge of honor or something. when in truth they sort of know one, from work LOL

[JustRalph]

I remember noticing segregation a bit when i first moved to cincinnati. It seemed all the blacks lived in Over the Rhine or near the U of Cincy, and the whites would never go down there and they didn't venture out to the burbs.

You do know that Over the Rhine statistically is one of the most dangerous places in America ? Right? Why would anyone go down there?

Btw, the Over the Rhine community leaders refused to allow a development corp to buy up a huge chunk of the neighborhood to revamp about ten years back. They stated they wanted to "maintain the ethnic heritage of the neighborhood" They passed on 200million in rehab projects that would lead into the new stadium area for the Bengals and Reds. To maintain the "heritage"

[Space Monkey]

Zip, you forgot the North End!. The Italians settled there, the Irish in South Boston and the blacks, Spanish and Asians in the West End. I know Suffolk is in East Boston, but to me, east of Boston is the Atlantic. :lol: The city has what, 11 major universities? Its a wonderfully cultural and ethnical diverse city. I spent the first 51 years of my life in RI. Providence is similarly split. The Italians settled in Federal Hill. While the great restaurants and markets still are there on Atwells Ave, the neighborhoods little by little changed to an Asian/Vietnamese population. The Italians moved north and west of the city. The blacks live in South Providence. The east side is where the rich and educated live. Brown University is located there. You can say what you want about northeast cities like Boston and Providence being racist, but I never experienced such overt hatred against blacks by whites since I moved here almost 10 years ago. And Tampa/St.Pete isn't even the south. I can't comment what its like in states like Kentucky, Arkansas etc. Never been. I do know that up north everybody kind of goes there own way. Down here its different.

[WinterTriangle]

I can't comment what its like in states like Kentucky, Arkansas etc. Never been. I do know that up north everybody kind of goes there own way. Down here its different.

I have lived all over the South.

What I have noticed is that, where white and black families experienced a lot of closeness of living together, as in communities where there were once slaves, and even afterwards, nannies and maids and gardeners and such, white and black appear to have a better understanding, and are more integrated. I saw that in Charleston, South Carolina, when I lived there.

Then you have states like Louisiana, with the historical Creole culture, so people are used to each other, too.

AR is a little different. In communities in OK and AR and others, you have to understand that that were "sundown towns". (google it). And where there has always been a certain degree of just no ethnic diversity in the first place, there is still a lack of understanding, but it is more based on historical stuff and ignorance. In Arkansas, you have a lot of towns that used to be "sundown towns" and hence, there are few blacks or any ethnicity where I live.

I think we just had the first black kid graduate from our high school in 100 years!!!!!

So, it's not a matter of segregation, so much as many people just have never had any interactions with different races or cultures. While the "N word" is alive and well here, I am also not quite ready to call them overt racists, mostly because, if you have never even been around any people of any other race than your own, it's more out of ignorance and lack of experience than actual racial hate. :)

It's like a joke here, most of my nieghbors tell me they don't like certain ethnicities or races, and I say: "why, have you ever met any?" and of course, the answer is no. :D

Then, a black family will move in, and people know them from church, and one becomes one of the community physicians, and everyone really likes them! So, it's just fear of the unknown I guess?


Hope this makes sense, didn't edit to make sure I chose my words exactly PC but you get my point.

[Space Monkey]

It's like a joke here, most of my nieghbors tell me they don't like certain ethnicities or races, and I say: "why, have you ever met any?" and of course, the answer is no

I learned at a young age that every race has their share of terrible people. So it made no sense to me to be prejudiced against anyone because of their nationality or color. That's how I've lived my life.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I lived in Roxbury, Zippy. I'm white, my neighbors upstairs were white. Next door on one side we had blacks, on the other Puerto Ricans. Segregated? Yeah, but less by race and more by economic status and I suppose you can draw conclusions from that, but like most of my neighbors, if I could have afforded the rent, I probably would have fled to Sommerville or somewhere and not because all the other whiteys were hanging out there by Tufts.

[eastie]

Fled to Slumerville, i mean Somerville, :)


Boston has come a long way as far as racism is concerned. It seems like everyone is cool with everyone else these days. Mayor Menino has been very instrumental in this. He basically told everyone, "no more of that in my city" He has shown such great vision and leadership that everyone said "ok, we're all in this together, it's settled."
If you don't believe me, look at the nitwit we elected Governor.
When the Pats won Super Bowls and the Sox won the series and the celts got #17 everyone kind of mellowed out a little and banded together.

[jballscalls]

You do know that Over the Rhine statistically is one of the most dangerous places in America ? Right? Why would anyone go down there?

Btw, the Over the Rhine community leaders refused to allow a development corp to buy up a huge chunk of the neighborhood to revamp about ten years back. They stated they wanted to "maintain the ethnic heritage of the neighborhood" They passed on 200million in rehab projects that would lead into the new stadium area for the Bengals and Reds. To maintain the "heritage"

Very much aware of OTR and it's danger LOL i own a condo on 8th and elm which is downtown, but about 5 blocks away from where the fun of OTR starts. There are a ton of old buildings that developers bought and rehabed and have been selling as condos. when i bought my place, 90% of the condos in the downtown area were being sold above 13th ave and in OTR.

i remember looking at one place that was so cute and so nice, and then as i'm sitting there, basically an entire gang comes walking through the alley about 5 feet from the kitchen. I asked my realtor then if we could leave

[JustRalph]

Larry Elder uses Boston as an example in one of his books discussing Black culture and how Blacks are undermined by their own tendency to lean on government and blindly follow their "leaders"

It is interesting when he compares neighborhoods........ I will see if I can find it.

[carlonr]

Very much aware of OTR and it's danger LOL i own a condo on 8th and elm which is downtown, but about 5 blocks away from where the fun of OTR starts. There are a ton of old buildings that developers bought and rehabed and have been selling as condos. when i bought my place, 90% of the condos in the downtown area were being sold above 13th ave and in OTR.

i remember looking at one place that was so cute and so nice, and then as i'm sitting there, basically an entire gang comes walking through the alley about 5 feet from the kitchen. I asked my realtor then if we could leave

What exactly do you mean by an"entire gang"?

[jballscalls]

What exactly do you mean by an"entire gang"?

i mean a mob of atleast 12 to 15 kids, tatted up, hooded up, and not exactly looking like folks you'd invite over for a bbq dinner

[carlonr]

i mean a mob of atleast 12 to 15 kids, tatted up, hooded up, and not exactly looking like folks you'd invite over for a bbq dinner

Did this "mob" do or say anything that associated or affiliated them with a gang?

[boxcar]

Did this "mob" do or say anything that associated or affiliated them with a gang?

Have you ever lived in some big inner city? The questions you ask me think you just executed an exit strategy from a womb. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[cj's dad]

Did this "mob" do or say anything that associated or affiliated them with a gang?

From my experience reading JBC's posts he is not a racist. He should not be painted with your broad brush. He's an adult and I am quite sure he knows a "gang" when he sees one. Then again, maybe they were there to, you know, "clean up the alley".

Most mature & sensible adults can spot trouble a mile away and that don't make them racist. What it accomplishes is twofold;

1) makes them "realists"
2) keeps them alive.

[carlonr]

From my experience reading JBC's posts he is not a racist. He should not be painted with your broad brush. He's an adult and I am quite sure he knows a "gang" when he sees one. Then again, maybe they were there to, you know, "clean up the alley".

Most mature & sensible adults can spot trouble a mile away and that don't make them racist. What it accomplishes is twofold;

1) makes them "realists"
2) keeps them alive.


I have not made any reference to anyone being a racist. I simply asked two questions? What I'm trying to ascertain is if there were anything other than an assumption that this was an "entire gang." Were they using vulgarities? Were they being aggressive in some way. Were any of their actions disrespectful of others or of property?

[carlonr]

Have you ever lived in some big inner city? The questions you ask me think you just executed an exit strategy from a womb. :rolleyes:

Boxcar


I have lived in the inner city, Los Angeles to be exact, which is why I asked the question. In the inner city, a lot of kids dress in the hip-hop culture style. Just go to any inner city high school. Probably less than 10% of these kids belong to a gang.

[cj's dad]

The last ten or so posts have referred to an area "ove rthe rhine", which from discussion read here, is obviously an Af. American neighborhood.

JBC was clearly concerned and rightfully so that 12 -15 hooded - tattooed young gentlemen were walking through the back alley.

Did you use the word "racist" ? No you did not ! Do I infer from your post that you were trying to paint JBC with that broad brush of racism ?

Yes, I do !

[kid4rilla]

I have not made any reference to anyone being a racist. I simply asked two questions? What I'm trying to ascertain is if there were anything other than an assumption that this was an "entire gang." Were they using vulgarities? Were they being aggressive in some way. Were any of their actions disrespectful of others or of property?

It's clear to everyone, including you, why he assumed this.

Are you in kindergarten?


I live in Ky, and the only people I hear throwing around the n-word aren't white.

[carlonr]

The last ten or so posts have referred to an area "ove rthe rhine", which from discussion read here, is obviously an Af. American neighborhood.

JBC was clearly concerned and rightfully so that 12 -15 hooded - tattooed young gentlemen were walking through the back alley.

Did you use the word "racist" ? No you did not ! Do I infer from your post that you were trying to paint JBC with that broad brush of racism ?

Yes, I do !

You can infer whatever you like. It just has nothing to do with the facts.
Fact: I only asked two questions.

If there is one point I would make, it would be: Sometimes in an effort to explain one's discomfort with others, it becomes very easy to "label the others". In other words, If JBC feels uncomfortable because the group of young people were not dressed or acting according to JBC's liking, JBC has every right to choose not to be around that particular group of people.

It is the labeling that group as "an entire gang" (unless there was something said or done that justified such a label) in an effort to justify JBC"S discomfort that I question.

[lamboguy]

i hate to say this, i have lived in and around boston most of my life, and this place is the most consevetive place in the whole USA. i know you think i am nuts, but outside of all the unniversities that are all liberal here, you got more conservetives than anywhere else. back around the 50's, the democratic party was the consevetive party, and the republicans were quite liberal. in mass. they never liked liberals and wiped out all the republicans and it has remained a stronghold for consevetive democrats for year. now the democrats have all become liberal and they will get wiped out of office soon now too. when kerry's seat comes up it will be won by some conservetive repulican, just like kennedy's seat to scott brown.

i have found that in american politics, the parties will say any thing and do anything, and flip flop around to retain power. its the power they are most interested in, not governing the people.

there are some refreshing politions these days, like christie in new jersey, and the democrat whom i forgot his name from florida. lieberman has some courage as well to buck his former party

[rastajenk]

I'm on the verge of taking offense at your equating conservatism with racism. Maybe I'm reading more into it than you intended, but what I'm getting is that there should be no big surprise Boston is segregated and racially tense because the people there are actually quite conservative. The real world doesn't work that way, despite the best efforts of MSNBC to wish it were so.

[Space Monkey]

Most mature & sensible adults can spot trouble a mile away and that don't make them racist. What it accomplishes is twofold;

1) makes them "realists"
2) keeps them alive.

Well said Dad :ThmbUp:

[Space Monkey]

Ethnic neighborhoods still rule in Boston and most of southern New England for that matter. These families have roots in the community and they don't like change. Thats social conservatism. Their politics are usually different though. I would hardly call the land of the Kennedy's conservative. What the Scott Brown election showed is that Massachusetts is a free thinking state. They aren't led around by the nose by the media or anything else. Thats what I love about the people back home and thats what I really miss.

[JustRalph]

Most mature & sensible adults can spot trouble a mile away and that don't make them racist. What it accomplishes is twofold;

1) makes them "realists"
2) keeps them alive.

Those who don't have the ability to interpret what they see or are oblivious to their surroundings are called Victims.............. plain and simple........

I wish I had a dollar for every time I have heard "They came out of nowhere"

btw, did you miss that this gang was located in the most dangerous place in America? :lol:

[lamboguy]

to understand the real meaning of conservetism you must be able to define the word. to me it means not wanting to or unwilling to make changes. that does not make someone a racist. if a family grew up for generation after generation going to the same school and all of a sudden are forced to make a change to send their kids to a different school in the name of social change, that family will not be happy.

in boston we all grew up with our own corners. when someone tried to walk into another corner is when problems began. family's lived in certain areas and stayed there and respected other area's. but they wanted respect back.

in today's world most of those area's have been broken up by government rehab programs and other forms of intervention,.

[TJDave]

I have lived all over the South.
In communities in OK and AR and others, you have to understand that that were "sundown towns". (google it). And where there has always been a certain degree of just no ethnic diversity in the first place, there is still a lack of understanding, but it is more based on historical stuff and ignorance. In Arkansas, you have a lot of towns that used to be "sundown towns" and hence, there are few blacks or any ethnicity where I live.

I think we just had the first black kid graduate from our high school in 100 years!!!!!


I grew up in a small Oklahoma 'sundown' town. Born in 1950. Blacks weren't welcome west of the railroad tracks and the schools were segregated. My eighth grade class was the first to be integrated. Our senior class valedictorian and national merit finalist was black.

Things change. Even in the South.

[rastajenk]

to understand the real meaning of conservetism you must be able to define the word. to me it means not wanting to or unwilling to make changes. Wow...talk about your swing and a miss. Maybe it works for you, but I sure as hell don't see how.

According to you, then, unions must be conservative, because they got theirs and sure don't want anybody to change that. Couldn't conservatism simply be defined as the status quo? I don't think so.

[lamboguy]

Wow...talk about your swing and a miss. Maybe it works for you, but I sure as hell don't see how.

According to you, then, unions must be conservative, because they got theirs and sure don't want anybody to change that. Couldn't conservatism simply be defined as the status quo? I don't think so.
u sort of got that right, if you need lessons in conservetism or liberalism i will give them to you. as far as i'm concerned this place would be a far better place if we didn't have label's from either side.

[chickenhead]

only about 12 black folks live from Marin County all the way up to Oregon. Plenty of racists around and dug in, but they wouldn't be that much of an issue, more so just a big fat wide cultural gulf, from both sides, real and imagined, that keeps people apart.

[eastie]

Larry Elder uses Boston as an example in one of his books discussing Black culture and how Blacks are undermined by their own tendency to lean on government and blindly follow their "leaders"

It is interesting when he compares neighborhoods........ I will see if I can find it.


Is there a chapter on Mel King ? He must have a billion dollars in real estate by now.

[toetoe]

only about 12 black folks live from Marin County all the way up to Oregon.




Uh, no.


No.




No !!!

[jelly]

I grew up in the Boston area my whole life. I found it normal that in Boston its blacks and whites, but you go 2 miles south of Boston into Southie and its ALL whites and they dont like the blacks, you go another 2 miles south to Roxbury and its ALL blacks and hate the whites. You go to East Boston, all whites, you go to Dorchester, mostly blacks. Its all Boston though. I had mentioned this to friends that live in other places and they found it fascinating. Im a Howard Stern fan and he went to Boston Univ. I called the show to talk about it and he said its unlike any other place. He said he's never seen segregation like this. Its weird this day and age its still like that.



As of a couple of years ago the city of Boston is less than 50% White(Now the minority)

The Boston Public school system is 90% Minority.

In All the major city's of Massachusetts the whites are the Minority in the public schools.


For the record you have not been to East Boston in a while,It's mostly Hispanic.(unless you count them White,Which maybe right).

[boxcar]

to understand the real meaning of conservetism you must be able to define the word. to me it means not wanting to or unwilling to make changes. that does not make someone a racist. if a family grew up for generation after generation going to the same school and all of a sudden are forced to make a change to send their kids to a different school in the name of social change, that family will not be happy.

in boston we all grew up with our own corners. when someone tried to walk into another corner is when problems began. family's lived in certain areas and stayed there and respected other area's. but they wanted respect back.

in today's world most of those area's have been broken up by government rehab programs and other forms of intervention,.

Now, why don't you take a shot at defining "conservatism" in positive terms? Can you do that?

Boxcar