I dont trust Harness drivers at small tracks. (plainridge etc)

[Zippy Chippy]

Is it just me or do you see more bizarre tactical moves by drivers at the smaller tracks? I refuse to put money on harness anymore unless its Mohawk, or Meadowlands. I really think the races are fixed at the smaller tracks. Thats my opinion. The drivers can't be THAT bad.

I dont understand drivers that have the favorite and are running 3rd, only to have a horse come up on the outside w/ tons of pace, and instead of tipping out and having a perfect 2nd over trip, they stay inside and get buried by the flow. Only to have tons of pace at the end and nowhere to go. Or a horse having a 2 length lead down the stretch and get passed right at the wire. When they show the replay in slow motion you can see the driver of the losing horse laying back and just watching the horse go by. Not even hitting, or looking at his horse. He may as well have been napping. Im watching it thinking, "Why isn't he paying attention to his own horse?" I dont see basic mistakes like that at the BIGM. I just keep seeing weird stuff happen at the smaller tracks.

After reading about the fixing at Tioga i hope nobody puts money on the smaller tracks anymore.

[melman]

Wow are u ever off base Zippy. I love the smaller harness tracks and am having a very good year. Maybe u should inquire about jockeys at smaller t-bred tracks. :D

[badcompany]

If they don't fix some races, how are they gonna make money?

[wilderness]

Wow are u ever off base Zippy.

Aye!

He firmly believes that horses are machines with an accelerator pedal, rack and pinion steering and anti-skid brakes, which would allow the driver to let off the accelerator, tap the brakes, swerve four lanes (l to r) at 80mph and then 15 seconds later repeat the same sequence and swerve four lanes in the opposite direction ;)

All the while saving speed for the exit ramp!

[LottaKash]

Zippy, without knowing which races you are referring to, I can't comment a bit about what you are alluding to....

Still, I feel the same way as you about Plainridge....I quit playing there a good while ago.....Pehaps for some of the very same reasons that you have stated...

Still, the quality of the stock, racing at that venue, as well as at most other "smalltime" racetracks, isn't the best, consequently, it is very hard for a horseman to earn a decent living given the cheapass purses that are being offered at those tracks....I mean, how can you live on the winners share of a purse of $2K.....Having to pay the trainer, the vets, and the associated grooms, not to mention that a cheap horse eats as much as a high-class one...It is a grind just to stay afloat let alone turn a profit....

That is why I believe that the horseman, at the small tracks, have to be very creative in order to survive...Some races raise my eyebrow at times.... And, others, are just plain, cheap stock racing, so that, often the perception of cheating is just an illusion, in that, most cheap horses are just not as gutty, powerful as they look on paper, and cannot sustain more than a one shot type of move.....That is why they are racing there....They suck....And, I will bet that 99.9% of them are lame to one degree or another, so you just can't push them past their hurts, for the most part...

To expect a cheapass horse do as much as a higher quality one is futile at best....That is why, in order to keep my sanity, I quit playing the cheaper tracks....Too frustrating and unformful for me...

Heck, even the Meadowlands this year is showing me a lot of crap horses, and crap racing, this year....I find, even that track these days, is not to my liking, or should I say that, they are not giving me what I need in order to continue winning with my "spot-plays"...I just cannot get a decent handle on the Meadowlands this year....Not so much that they are cheating, it is just that there are too many "transient" types there this year....It's as if "nobody" is in shape anymore, and the "good form" that used to be prevalent at that track, has died and gone away....To where ? anyone's guess...M1, has been long regarded as the place to race, if you had a good horse....Not so any longer, I'm sad to say.....That is JMO tho...

This year, "my way of going" is working best at the Meadows, Chester, and for the most part Pocono (I need the right nite there), and of course Mohawk and Woodbine, and Rideau Carleton (on Sundays), in Canada....They seem to have enough of the right mix of horses, purses, drivers, and classifications, so I find more than enough "changes" and "angles" that still abound at those tracks....I do play, from time to time, at other tracks, but ususally, I get bored and fatigued waiting for some little thing to pop-up, for me to make a bet...

So, Zippy I feel for you....And, I feel for harness racin' in general, it's not what it used to be, as it has evolved, and our job is to "Find the Juice" wherever it is these days....

Good Luck to all, in that...

best,

[badcompany]

Aye!

He firmly believes that horses are machines with an accelerator pedal, rack and pinion steering and anti-skid brakes, which would allow the driver to let off the accelerator, tap the brakes, swerve four lanes (l to r) at 80mph and then 15 seconds later repeat the same sequence and swerve four lanes in the opposite direction ;)

All the while saving speed for the exit ramp!

No, he's talking about a driver allowing himself to be boxed in for no reason.

Many years ago, I noticed a guy doing this a bit too often at Freehold. The guy's name was David Ingraham.

Acting as though there are no fixed races is as ridiculous as acting as though every race is fixed.

[Canadian]

Zippy, without knowing which races you are referring to, I can't comment a bit about what you are alluding to....

Still, I feel the same way as you about Plainridge....I quit playing there a good while ago.....Pehaps for some of the very same reasons that you have stated...

Still, the quality of the stock, racing at that venue, as well as at most other "smalltime" racetracks, isn't the best, consequently, it is very hard for a horseman to earn a decent living given the cheapass purses that are being offered at those tracks....I mean, how can you live on the winners share of a purse of $2K.....Having to pay the trainer, the vets, and the associated grooms, not to mention that a cheap horse eats as much as a high-class one...It is a grind just to stay afloat let alone turn a profit....

That is why I believe that the horseman, at the small tracks, have to be very creative in order to survive...Some races raise my eyebrow at times.... And, others, are just plain, cheap stock racing, so that, often the perception of cheating is just an illusion, in that, most cheap horses are just not as gutty, powerful as they look on paper, and cannot sustain more than a one shot type of move.....That is why they are racing there....They suck....And, I will bet that 99.9% of them are lame to one degree or another, so you just can't push them past their hurts, for the most part...

To expect a cheapass horse do as much as a higher quality one is futile at best....That is why, in order to keep my sanity, I quit playing the cheaper tracks....Too frustrating and unformful for me...

Heck, even the Meadowlands this year is showing me a lot of crap horses, and crap racing, this year....I find, even that track these days, is not to my liking, or should I say that, they are not giving me what I need in order to continue winning with my "spot-plays"...I just cannot get a decent handle on the Meadowlands this year....Not so much that they are cheating, it is just that there are too many "transient" types there this year....It's as if "nobody" is in shape anymore, and the "good form" that used to be prevalent at that track, has died and gone away....To where ? anyone's guess...M1, has been long regarded as the place to race, if you had a good horse....Not so any longer, I'm sad to say.....That is JMO tho...

This year, "my way of going" is working best at the Meadows, Chester, and for the most part Pocono (I need the right nite there), and of course Mohawk and Woodbine, and Rideau Carleton (on Sundays), in Canada....They seem to have enough of the right mix of horses, purses, drivers, and classifications, so I find more than enough "changes" and "angles" that still abound at those tracks....I do play, from time to time, at other tracks, but ususally, I get bored and fatigued waiting for some little thing to pop-up, for me to make a bet...

So, Zippy I feel for you....And, I feel for harness racin' in general, it's not what it used to be, as it has evolved, and our job is to "Find the Juice" wherever it is these days....

Good Luck to all, in that...

best,



For some reason I love cheap horses.

[LottaKash]

Aye!

He firmly believes that horses are machines with an accelerator pedal, rack and pinion steering and anti-skid brakes, which would allow the driver to let off the accelerator, tap the brakes, swerve four lanes (l to r) at 80mph and then 15 seconds later repeat the same sequence and swerve four lanes in the opposite direction ;)

All the while saving speed for the exit ramp!

Funny way of putting it Don, but that's "it" in a nutshell....haha...Go Don !

best,

[mirror Image]

The good thing about the cheaper horses is that the ones
that look bad in the race, even with the best of trips still find
a way to lose most times.
Not so true with the higher class horses, most if you give them
a perfect trip they will step up and win. That's why Saturday at
Big M is always tough, most of them are not broken down nags
and with the best of trips most of them can win IMO.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

The one thing we have to keep in mind is that they are not always going. Especially this time of year with the 2 and 3 yr olds. They may be pointed for a large stake race at the Big M or other big track and are using this conditoned race at the smaller track to either teach them how to race in a hole or just using it as a training mile.


For the older horses, it is anyone's best guess as to why. for those youngsters, the above seems the most logical reasoning.

[Trotman]

Zippy when you play at the smaller tracks all I can say is play at your own risk. And secondly why the pools are small and as RT Daddy said they are getting their 2 and early 3 yr olds ready to try the big show at the Meadowlands or WEG. And Thirdly the rest are mostly cripples trying for a check and for me they won't get my money.

[LottaKash]

The good thing about the cheaper horses is that the ones
that look bad in the race, even with the best of trips still find
a way to lose most times.
Not so true with the higher class horses, most if you give them
a perfect trip they will step up and win. That's why Saturday at
Big M is always tough, most of them are not broken down nags
and with the best of trips most of them can win IMO.

This year, I am not so sure.....The form lines are so "grayish" looking this season...I am mostly clueless this season, for just that reason....Not enough, even on a Sat. nite, for me to risk large & confident kash ...

best,

[Ray2000]

consequently, it is very hard for a horseman to earn a decent living given the cheapass purses that are being offered at those tracks....

LottaKash

Johnny
There's not enough money in the betting pools at Plainridge for a crook to make a decent living either.:D

Zippy

IMO
Choosing Meadowlands over the smaller tracks is a sure road to frustration. You're up against the best 'cappers in the world at a track where the horses are over-used and much abused, and not entirely crook-free.

Best Tracks for me to play ..

Harrington
Chester
Hoosier/Indy
Woodbine/Mohawk
Meadows
Northfield
Yonkers
Saratoga
Red Mile

Sorry Tioga, if I have a good weekend I'll put you on the list.:)

[mirror Image]

What are you looking for a bribe from tioga Ray :D . If Ray goes
8 for 10 with 7 or 8 ex's somethings not kosher ! ;)

[wilderness]

No, he's talking about a driver allowing himself to be boxed in for no reason.

Many years ago, I noticed a guy doing this a bit too often at Freehold. The guy's name was David Ingraham.

Acting as though there are no fixed races is as ridiculous as acting as though every race is fixed.

Just because the reason for a horse not moving doesn't seem logical to the wagering public, doesn't always mean that the driver has control of the horse, as was my intention of explanation that horses are not machines.

[wilderness]

The one thing we have to keep in mind is that they are not always going. Especially this time of year with the 2 and 3 yr olds. They may be pointed for a large stake race at the Big M or other big track and are using this conditoned race at the smaller track to either teach them how to race in a hole or just using it as a training mile.


For the older horses, it is anyone's best guess as to why. for those youngsters, the above seems the most logical reasoning.

NO way! (tongue-in-cheek)!
According to today's standards of wagering compliance the trainer and driver are compelled by law to gut the horse out in each appearance. Holding nothing in reserve while the horse grows in size and bone structure which allows the longevity of the horses in today's faster races.

[wilderness]

Still, the quality of the stock, racing at that venue, as well as at most other "smalltime" racetracks, isn't the best, consequently, it is very hard for a horseman to earn a decent living given the cheapass purses that are being offered at those tracks....I mean, how can you live on the winners share of a purse of $2K.....Having to pay the trainer, the vets, and the associated grooms, not to mention that a cheap horse eats as much as a high-class one...It is a grind just to stay afloat let alone turn a profit....
best,

At most lesser venues where many horses have lameness and other health issues, there is a very thin line (i. e., the X-factor) between the cheaper horse being at the "top of his game" or being "so lame that they are unable to race".
Just as the working horseman nurses the horse back to health and the horse begins to round into competitive from, he's lame.

[Charlie]

I love Rockingham and when live racing was canceled for the season was very disappointed. Now I am having excellent luck at Plainridge where for me the horses seem to be running true to form. Like almost all tracks, the favorites seem to win at a normal % rate. I've also hit some nice price horses and some very nice Pic 4s. But anyway, I also like the more expensive tracks such as Yonkers and the Meadowlands, but have never shyed away from Rockingham or Plainridge. If anyone thinks all races are fixed, why would they play? Would you play cards knowing your opponent uses a marked deck? I think not.

[melman]

I'm with u Charlie. I have no problem at all with the smaller tracks.

[my_nameaintearl]

I love the smaller tracks Oceandowns and maywood always seem to give me the highest ROI

[Pacingguy]

Years ago I was up at Monticello in the winter where the trotters had been racing miles in 2:09 and so. Being it was another cold day, I assumed the same would be the case on this particular Sunday.

Well, the race went off and the horse that took the lead had about ten lengths on the field at the quarter and reached that station in roughly :30. He got to the half in 1:02 and must have had twenty lengths on the field. Okay, a runaway horse; I can accept that. Only problem was another horse was following him around the track with the other six horses being far behind. These were two of the leading drivers at the time.

And as I predicted, the race went in 2:09 and change and the two horses in front finished dead last. Any idiot in the world could have seen this and should have known not to go that fast. If the first horse was a runaway, why in heck did the other driver go with him; he should have known the other horse was going to back up big time.

Since then, I never bet serious money at Monticello. The drivers were either incompetent or worse. I play Monticello for fun.

[BuddyOscar]

I'm relatively new to playing harness races... What are the opinions of the Canadian tracks like Grand River, Georgian Downs, Flamboro, etc.? These are the easiest for me to access via the ADW I use and I also like the fact that they all provide free programs online. Are these considered small tracks?

[speed]

I'm relatively new to playing harness races... What are the opinions of the Canadian tracks like Grand River, Georgian Downs, Flamboro, etc.? These are the easiest for me to access via the ADW I use and I also like the fact that they all provide free programs online. Are these considered small tracks?


No those are midget tracks

[exiles]

You will find more crooks and more fixed races at the bigger Harness tracks, stick w/ the small tracks

[Ray2000]

welcome buddy

Besides the free programs at some Canadian Tracks, I like the fact that Standardbredcanada gives the pool sizes along with mutuels and charts at
http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/results/

This year average pools are

Track Win......Ex....Races
MOH .$24,375 $24,537 305
WDB .$22,853 $23,132 821
WR ...$3,560 .$4,991 491
LON ..$2,564 .$4,041 759
GEOD .$2,519 .$2,895 331
FRD ..$2,192 .$2,768 548
FLMD .$1,915 .$2,916 1106
NP ...$1,714 .$1,910 200
GRVR .$1,673 .$2,182 260
RIDC .$1,266 .$1,996 799

Sometimes when people say small tracks they're referring to the oval size 1/2 mile vs mile
but usually they mean betting handles.