Not Joking: Professors rank President Obama 15th best president

[andymays]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/39283.html

Excerpt:

A new poll of leading presidential scholars ranks Barack Obama as the 15th best president of the United States, just below Bill Clinton but ahead of Ronald Reagan.

The Siena College poll, which surveyed 238 presidential scholars at U.S. colleges and universities, asked scholars to rate the nation’s 43 chief executives on 20 attributes ranging from legislative accomplishments to integrity and imagination.

In the overall ranking, Obama rated two places below Clinton, who was 13th best, and three better than Reagan, who is ranked as the 18th best.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/39283.html#ixzz0sThzrtyK

[Greyfox]

If doing nothing and wrecking the economy is important, he should be higher.

[Mike at A+]

"Leading presidential scholars" = drug ingesting idealogues. I rank Obama just above Saddam Hussein but not as good as Hugo Chavez. If Obama got hit by a truck tomorrow the job market and the stock market would celebrate.

[illinoisbred]

About what one would expect from liberal-oriented scholars at U. S. universities and colleges.

[cj's dad]

http: (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/39283.html)
In the overall ranking, Obama rated two places below Clinton, who was 13th best, and three better than Reagan, who is ranked as the 18th best.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/39283.html#ixzz0sThzrtyK


IMO he couldn't wash RR's underwear !!

[illinoisbred]

IMO he couldn't wash RR's underwear !!
Hell,he couldn't polish Franklin Pierce's shoes.

[JustRalph]

IMO he couldn't wash RR's underwear !!

That reminds me......... didn't Clinton donate his used underwear and take a tax break of 2.50 a pair ?? :lol: :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

It's hilarious how low GWB is rated...based on " U.S. economy, foreign policy accomplishments and intelligence."

If Bush is ranked so low in part because of the US economy and foreign policy accomplishments, how the hell is Obama ranked so highly? Are they not ranked on the same factors?

Clearly, Obama has not proven better than his predecessor in terms of the economy (we're over 18 months into Obama's presidency...have you seen the economic numbers released just today? pathetic)...foreign policy? What foreign policy accomplishments?

Believe it or not, I remain unconvinced that Obama is even more intelligent than Bush, so I can't give him that either...Bush got unfairly dumped on in the media for his supposed lack of intelligence, and Obama's supposed brilliance is way overhyped by this same media, so that's a wash as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe if and when Obama releases his college transcripts I'll have a better take on who is actually more intelligent.

After all, people naturally assumed Gore and Kerry were more intelligent than Bush, but that was proven incorrect based on released college scores and whatnot.

[Greyfox]

Can anyone on this board name one foreign policy accomplishment of Obamas??

[Tom]

Can anyone on this board name one foreign policy accomplishment of Obamas??

France hasn't invaded us.
Yet.

[Canadian]

It's hilarious how low GWB is rated...based on " U.S. economy, foreign policy accomplishments and intelligence."

If Bush is ranked so low in part because of the US economy and foreign policy accomplishments, how the hell is Obama ranked so highly? Are they not ranked on the same factors?

Clearly, Obama has not proven better than his predecessor in terms of the economy (we're over 18 months into Obama's presidency...have you seen the economic numbers released just today? pathetic)...foreign policy? What foreign policy accomplishments?

Believe it or not, I remain unconvinced that Obama is even more intelligent than Bush, so I can't give him that either...Bush got unfairly dumped on in the media for his supposed lack of intelligence, and Obama's supposed brilliance is way overhyped by this same media, so that's a wash as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe if and when Obama releases his college transcripts I'll have a better take on who is actually more intelligent.

After all, people naturally assumed Gore and Kerry were more intelligent than Bush, but that was proven incorrect based on released college scores and whatnot.


Bush was pathetically unqualified for his job. He set back any decent right wing causes back years. I never really liked the idea of calling him stupid, you have to have some brains to get where he got. But he wasn't any kind of a deep thinker at all..... Not to say thats always a good thing as most deep thinking leaders I've seen usually are far left and terrible leaders.

I'm not sure how qualified Obama is. But I wouldn't want to try to run things after Bush left at all. A huge up hill battle. At least he can speak, telepromptor or not.

[Robert Goren]

18 monthes in the Reagan presidency, he could not gotten elected dog catcher even his opponent was a French poodle.

[PaceAdvantage]

18 monthes in the Reagan presidency, he could not gotten elected dog catcher even his opponent was a French poodle.So you think he would have been number 15 on the list at that time? :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Bush was pathetically unqualified for his job.An American perspective: if Bush was pathetically unqualified, what does that make Obama?

And if you don't agree that Obama is/was pathetically unqualified, what in Obama's resume before being elected justifies your opinion?

[ArlJim78]

want a good belly laugh? listen to this claptrap ad from the campaign.

cCYzHIBvneU

catch the Joe Klein comment "scrupulous honesty":lol:

[BlueShoe]

The Siena College poll, which surveyed 238 presidential scholars at U.S. colleges and universities, asked scholars to rate the nation’s 43 chief executives.
And I will wager that all 238 of them are liberal Democrats. Just look at the rest of the poll. Carter in mid pack and FDR number one? In my poll Obama is worst ever, and he still has 2 1/2 years to wreck more havoc. Next worst is Carter, and then FDR. Quite a difference from those far left radical "perfessers".

[Canadian]

An American perspective: if Bush was pathetically unqualified, what does that make Obama?

And if you don't agree that Obama is/was pathetically unqualified, what in Obama's resume before being elected justifies your opinion?


I'm not going to argue with you. I heard the whole community organizer piece. From this side of the border he is doing an ok job. I don't see anyone on the right that is impressing me right now. Maybe Lou Dobbs.

[Robert Goren]

So you think he would have been number 15 on the list at that time? :lol: You either have short memory or didn't live a farm state in 1982. It was a really bad time for farmers. I know 5 farmers who were millionaires who lost everything when farm land prices dropped. A lady I know inherted $3.5 million worth of land in 1979. After she won a court challenge of the will in 1983, the land was not worth enough to pay the estate taxes. As for his whole time in office I got him in at #12. You probably have got him a bit higher. If JFK had not died so early in his term, Reagan would be #13. I sure I have Clintion at #9 a lot higher than you. I made more money during the eight years he was in office than I made all of the other of my 30+ working years combined. Times were good during the late 90s.

[boxcar]

"Leading presidential scholars" = drug ingesting idealogues. I rank Obama just above Saddam Hussein but not as good as Hugo Chavez. If Obama got hit by a truck tomorrow the job market and the stock market would celebrate.

:lol: :lol: :lol: And those two markets wouldn't be alone either. :D :D

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

From this side of the border he is doing an ok job.

Can you be more specific Canadian?
A ok job on what?
The economy?
Employment?
The Gulf Oil Spill?
Forthcoming Carbon taxes? i.e. Fuel
The debt and the deficit?
A Health Care Bill that has to be funded?
The Space Program?
Israel?
Iran?
Afghanistan?
North Korea?
Russia?
China?
Great Britain?
Turkey?

Oh, I forgot he settled a dispute between a cop and a prof.
Seriously, what is he doing an ok job on??

[Canadian]

Can you be more specific Canadian?
A ok job on what?
The economy?
Employment?
The Gulf Oil Spill?
Forthcoming Carbon taxes? i.e. Fuel
The debt and the deficit?
A Health Care Bill that has to be funded?
The Space Program?
Israel?
Iran?
Afghanistan?
North Korea?
Russia?
China?
Great Britain?
Turkey?

Oh, I forgot he settled a dispute between a cop and a prof.
Seriously, what is he doing an ok job on??


You have a point. 5 or 6 of those things no one is going to do a good job on, North Korea is what it is, Afghanistan can not possibly make anyone look good, Israel, Iran same thing. I do worry that a couple of those guys (ie Chavez, Putin or Ahmadinejad) think they can push him around a bit, since the democrats are basically pussies.

China. Well I'm not sure what he's done wrong there. They are taking positive steps on their currency, I'm not sure what role the Obama administration played in that (probably little).

There is not a scenerio I can think of where someone else would be impressing me any more.

Maybe it's just that George Bush was so terrible that having anyone looks ok.

[Sericm]

Excuse me Canadian, I'm sure the 25 Canadian's killed in the twin towers would agree with you, you think!

Ronald Reagan brought down the Iron Curtain and George W Bush told the Muslim world that the USA wouldn't be f-----d over buy a bunch of Muslim butchers.

This current President is the Neville Chamberlin of this century. The leaders of Iran, Venezuela, N. Korea laugh behind his back.

Perhaps you should remind yourself of the essay Gordon Sinclair wrote many years ago.

[hcap]

About what one would expect from liberal-oriented scholars at U. S. universities and colleges.Next time they should dump all the feel good namby pamby upper west side elite college professors and poll the scholarly PA OT righty groupies.

Then will have the TRUTH!

[Tom]

I'm not going to argue with you. I heard the whole community organizer piece. From this side of the border he is doing an ok job. I don't see anyone on the right that is impressing me right now. Maybe Lou Dobbs.

Operative words. No one on THIS side of it gives a rat's what you think.
Let's just say the Canadian opinion of our doings is rather :sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

[Robert Goren]

Excuse me Canadian, I'm sure the 25 Canadian's killed in the twin towers would agree with you, you think!

Ronald Reagan brought down the Iron Curtain and George W Bush told the Muslim world that the USA wouldn't be f-----d over buy a bunch of Muslim butchers.

This current President is the Neville Chamberlin of this century. The leaders of Iran, Venezuela, N. Korea laugh behind his back.

Perhaps you should remind yourself of the essay Gordon Sinclair wrote many years ago. So exact when did George W Bush do anything about the twin towers? When did he capture Bin Laden?

[lamboguy]

18 monthes in the Reagan presidency, he could not gotten elected dog catcher even his opponent was a French poodle.
the truth of the matter is that when reagan first came into office he took over a big mess here. reagan turned out to be a leader and knew how to get things done. before he took over there were higher tax rates and the sharp guys knew how to get around them through deductions. reagan took over and figured out how to get the biggest tax increase in history through while he made it look like he was cutting taxes. the revenue base grew to large proportions and set the base for the largest growth in the economy during the clinton years.


bush and obama have destroyed everything that reagan and clinton did to grow the economy.

[Robert Goren]

the truth of the matter is that when reagan first came into office he took over a big mess here. reagan turned out to be a leader and knew how to get things done. before he took over there were higher tax rates and the sharp guys knew how to get around them through deductions. reagan took over and figured out how to get the biggest tax increase in history through while he made it look like he was cutting taxes. the revenue base grew to large proportions and set the base for the largest growth in the economy during the clinton years.


bush and obama have destroyed everything that reagan and clinton did to grow the economy. What Reagan did with the help of the Fed was raise interest rates. I actually had one 9 month CD that paid me 16%. It killed a lot of husband and wife businesses and crushed the farmers, but it did bring down inflation.

[Tom]

Obama smart? :D
Yesterday, at his stupid immigration speech, he said the Statue of Liberty was paid for for small contributions from people all over the country. Duh.

Smells like an over-ripe rutabaga to me.

WE could start a new game - Liar or Moron.
Every time he speaks, he is one or the other.
We can vote on which one.

[BlueShoe]

Next time they should dump all the feel good namby pamby upper west side elite college professors and poll the scholarly PA OT righty groupies.Then will have the TRUTH!
Now we are getting somewhere! Very good Cappy, this is the best idea that you have had in ages!:ThmbUp:

[Robert Goren]

Obama smart? :D
Yesterday, at his stupid immigration speech, he said the Statue of Liberty was paid for for small contributions from people all over the country. Duh.

Smells like an over-ripe rutabaga to me.

WE could start a new game - Liar or Moron.
Every time he speaks, he is one or the other.
We can vote on which one. The Statue was paid was paid for the French people (not the French government) through various fund raising events. The base was paid for by Americans through small contributions and small fund raisers across the country. That statement by Obama was the least of the problems with his speech on immigration yesterday. It was one of finest collections of half-truths I have ever seen out of a politician.

[Tom]

Bobby, yes, the moron was trying to equate Eintstein to illegal drug dealers. What a total jerk this fool is. Even pathological liars are embarrassed by this nutcase.

[46zilzal]

If doing nothing and wrecking the economy is important, he should be higher.
That was Reagan who did the majority of that. SHORT sighted incompetence and wholesale deregulation that screwed up what is today a mess.

[jballscalls]

I think Obama will always get a free pass for his poor performance because of the pile of crap he inherited when he walked into office. He can always play the "i followed Bush card" which will get him off the hook with a lot of people.

[Tom]

46 - 30 years of unprecedented economic growth after Ronnie.

JB - he inherited nothing - he sought the job, as is. No one to blame for his not having a clue of what to do other than himself and the dumber than dirt half of America that voted for this pig in lipstick. Had McCain won, do you think ANYONE would giving him the pass Barry the Bumbler is getting?

[jballscalls]

46 - 30 years of unprecedented economic growth after Ronnie.

JB - he inherited nothing - he sought the job, as is. No one to blame for his not having a clue of what to do other than himself and the dumber than dirt half of America that voted for this pig in lipstick. Had McCain won, do you think ANYONE would giving him the pass Barry the Bumbler is getting?

i'm not saying he should get the pass he will get, i'm just saying he will always get it because of the disaster that things were in when he came into office. it's just so easy to blame Bush and many accept that.

had McCain won, i think he would get a pass from many people as well. I mean Bush still gets a pass from many in the US, many on this board even, and his approval ratings were anemic when he left office. The lefties will always stick with their guys and the righties will too.

[TJDave]

The best Presidents are those who are most effective in legislating their agendas. Best of the last 50 years were Nixon and LBJ.

[toetoe]

Next time they should dump all the feel good namby pamby upper west side elite college professors and poll the scholarly PA OT righty groupies.

Then will have the TRUTH!



For the hundredth time ( :sleeping: ), what are you saying ? The Fief-in-Chief should be seeded first, last, what ? Wha wha what, McHale ? I know you have an opinion, but do you dare defend the palpating of The Anointed One, on its merits ?

I myself wonder why Jimmy Carter is not right at the top.

[mostpost]

Can anyone on this board name one foreign policy accomplishment of Obamas??
Negotiated a nuclear arms reduction treaty with Russia. Began to wind down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And in general began treating other countries with respect and courtesy.

Now you name one successful foreign policy accomplishment of George W. Bush in his entire two terms, let alone his first eighteen months. Attacking a country which had ZERO to do with 9/11 is not an accomplishment. P_ _ _ ing off our allies isn't either.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm not going to argue with you. I heard the whole community organizer piece. From this side of the border he is doing an ok job. I don't see anyone on the right that is impressing me right now. Maybe Lou Dobbs.That wasn't my question, and I'm not looking for an argument. It was a serious inquiry as to what made Obama qualified PRIOR to taking office.

Who was more qualified PRIOR to taking office. George W. Bush, two term governor of Texas, or Barack Obama, Senator from Illinois for about two years?

[PaceAdvantage]

You either have short memory or didn't live a farm state in 1982. It was a really bad time for farmers. I know 5 farmers who were millionaires who lost everything when farm land prices dropped. A lady I know inherted $3.5 million worth of land in 1979. After she won a court challenge of the will in 1983, the land was not worth enough to pay the estate taxes. As for his whole time in office I got him in at #12. You probably have got him a bit higher. If JFK had not died so early in his term, Reagan would be #13. I sure I have Clintion at #9 a lot higher than you. I made more money during the eight years he was in office than I made all of the other of my 30+ working years combined. Times were good during the late 90s.I believe you missed my point.

[mostpost]

It's hilarious how low GWB is rated...based on " U.S. economy, foreign policy accomplishments and intelligence."

If Bush is ranked so low in part because of the US economy and foreign policy accomplishments, how the hell is Obama ranked so highly? Are they not ranked on the same factors?

Clearly, Obama has not proven better than his predecessor in terms of the economy (we're over 18 months into Obama's presidency...have you seen the economic numbers released just today? pathetic)...foreign policy? What foreign policy accomplishments?

Believe it or not, I remain unconvinced that Obama is even more intelligent than Bush, so I can't give him that either...Bush got unfairly dumped on in the media for his supposed lack of intelligence, and Obama's supposed brilliance is way overhyped by this same media, so that's a wash as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe if and when Obama releases his college transcripts I'll have a better take on who is actually more intelligent.

After all, people naturally assumed Gore and Kerry were more intelligent than Bush, but that was proven incorrect based on released college scores and whatnot.
In every economic category Obama outranks Bush. Things are not great now, but they are better than they were and infinitely better than they would have been had Bush remained in office.
Private industry added 80,000 jobs last month. During the last months of Bush's regime we were losing over 500,000 each month.

Foreign policy? Bush was asleep at the switch when the WTC was attacked; ordered the FBI agents investigating the attack of the USS Cole home from Yemen; attacked Iraq, which had no connection to 9/11 either out of pique or greed; and then failed to provide our troops with the resources necesary to succeed in that endeavor.

You remain unconvinced that Obama is smarter than Bush. Your lack of conviction is based not on evidence, but on your prejudices (I do not mean racial prejudices) Anyone who is smarter than a fifth grader knows Obama is smarter than Bush.

I think Bush is right where he belongs in the Bottom five, Reagan is way overrated, and ranking Obama anywhere is ridiculously premature.

[mostpost]

46 - 30 years of unprecedented economic growth after Ronnie.
You are truly delusional. First of all Reagan left office in Jan. 1989. So we have only had 21 years after Reagan. If you mean in the thirty years since in took office you are still wrong.
We had a recession from July of 1981 to November of 1982. We had a recession from July of 1990 to March if 1991. We had a recession from March to November of 2001. We had a recession from December of 2007 to ?
And this last recession was the worst in our history save for the Great Depression. So, no, we have not had unprecented economic growth in that period. In fact percentage growth of GDP does not compare with other periods. Not only that but real wages and individual purchasing power are way down.

[mostpost]

Excuse me Canadian, I'm sure the 25 Canadian's killed in the twin towers would agree with you, you think!

Ronald Reagan brought down the Iron Curtain and George W Bush told the Muslim world that the USA wouldn't be f-----d over buy a bunch of Muslim butchers.

This current President is the Neville Chamberlin of this century. The leaders of Iran, Venezuela, N. Korea laugh behind his back.

Perhaps you should remind yourself of the essay Gordon Sinclair wrote many years ago.
Ronal Reagan did not bring down the Iron Curtain. That is a fantasy of the wierd right. Communism collapsed of the weight of its own failings. The man who deserves credit for the fall of Communism is a Communist, Mikhail Gorbachev. Gorbachev was able to see that Country is more important than ideology.

Reagan quadrupled our national debt building the world's biggest bulldozer to push over a dead tree.

[Tom]

Began to wind down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan

1. He has done NOTHING positive in Iraq. That was the SURGE by BUSH and Petreyus, which Obama opposed.

2. We just had our deadliest month to date in Afghanistan. Just because the MSM is not posting the daily body count on the front pages doesn't mean it is not growing.

3. He is treating others nicer? :lol::lol::lol: You mean he is an international joke and doormat.

[mostpost]

Perhaps you should remind yourself of the essay Gordon Sinclair wrote many years ago.
Here is Mr. Sinclair's essay
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/sinclair.asp
What Gordon Sinclair wrote in 1973 was true then. Some of it is still true today. But much of it is not. We no longer have a moonopoly on space travel. It has been thirty years since we sent a man to the moon. We have the 747, France/Germany has the Airbus. Foreign countries and their citizens sent aid to the United States during Katrina. Other countries sent assistance to Haiti in the aftemath of the earthquake.

The most bizarre thing about you quoting Gordon Sinclair's essay praising America is that the things he praises us the most for-helping others-is precisely the thing all you conservatives are most vocal against. Cut off unemployment; eliminate Social Security; no heath care; no foreign aid; no welfare.

[Tom]

The most bizarre thing about you quoting Gordon Sinclair's essay praising America is that the things he praises us the most for-helping others-is precisely the thing all you conservatives are most vocal against. Cut off unemployment; eliminate Social Security; no heath care; no foreign aid; no welfare.

Remove your head from your arse.

[Greyfox]

Negotiated a nuclear arms reduction treaty with Russia. Began to wind down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan..

With respect to the question you asked about George Bush's accomplishments I was never a fan of his and have no need to answer that question.
My question is about Obama's foreign policy achievements.
****************************

With respect to Russia, count your fingers when you shake hands with Putin.
A piece of paper agreement means nothing until the action is inspected.
Tell us please what weaponry has been removed so far.
Probably nothing. Oops. Did I mention...A Russian Spy Ring was just detected.

Began to wind down the war in Iraq?
The Civil War in Iraq won't start until he does truly wind it down.
This is the lull before the storm.

Afghanistan???
You've got to be joking. Karzei is the Mayor of Kandahar and that is the only area of the country under any control at all. Even today, they are under assault. Afghanistan is a mess.
How can any rational observer claim that is a winding down of the war?
You've lost serious credibility with that suggestion alone, by almost anyone's standards.


Bottom line: NO FOREIGN POLICY ACCOMPLISHMENTS SO FAR OTHER THAN SMOKE AND MIRRORS.

[Robert Goren]

I believe you missed my point. That is quite possible. I thought you wanted to know if Reagan would rank 15th based on his 1st 18 months in office. The short answer is no. A lot closer to the bottom. A little closer to the top if you take in to account the whole 8 years. I am merely pointing out that the country is very simalar shape now as it was in July of 1982. It remains to be seen if it will be the same shape in 2012 as it was in 1984. Not many people think so, but not many people thought Reagan was on the right path in 1982 either.

[Robert Goren]

Began to wind down the war in Iraq?
The Civil War in Iraq won't start until he does truly wind it down.
Actually Bush started the troop withdrawals just before he left office. It would be nice if they didn't have a civil war, but I don't want any more US troops killed trying to stop what is going to happen when ever we leave whether it is now or 30 years from now. If we can't get done in 8 years what needs to be done, then it highly likely we are not ever going to get it done.

[bigmack]

A thread generated by a Siena College Poll made up of schlubs not unlike Martha & George. :D

Martha - Siena College is on the phone with a poll!

http://www.pingshuifengzhou.com/uploadfile/200902/6/047544329.jpg

...and over-analyzed by Mosty.

BO will be lucky to get his gig back as a door knockin' organizer.

Pre-screening each household with SS should be good for a story or two though. :rolleyes:

[Greyfox]

Actually Bush started the troop withdrawals just before he left office. It would be nice if they didn't have a civil war, but I don't want any more US troops killed trying to stop what is going to happen when ever we leave whether it is now or 30 years from now. If we can't get done in 8 years what needs to be done, then it highly likely we are not ever going to get it done.

Robert... well said. :ThmbUp:

[Greyfox]

A thread generated by a Siena College Poll made up of schlubs not unlike Martha & George. :D

Martha - Siena College is on the phone with a poll!

http://www.pingshuifengzhou.com/uploadfile/200902/6/047544329.jpg

...and over-analyzed by Mosty.

BO will be lucky to get his gig back as a door knockin' organizer.

Pre-screening each household with SS should be good for a story or two though. :rolleyes:

Who is the wolf with Virginia? :lol:

[dav4463]

Where does Obama rank among dictators? I have him ahead of Castro, but still below Hitler and Stalin.

[hcap]

Ironic isn't it?
Barbara Bush was born a Pierce.
Yes it's true, her ancestors include Franklin Pierce.
Ranked the VERY WORST of ALL Presidents.
Her son George 5th fromn the worst.

An argument for thw validity of genetics?

[Greyfox]

Ironic isn't it?
Barbara Bush was born a Pierce.
Yes it's true, her ancestors include Franklin Pierce.
Ranked the VERY WORST of ALL Presidents.
Her son George 5th fromn the worst.

An argument for thw validity of genetics?

This thread is about Obama's standing. He's related to Dick Cheney.
I thought Bush was a weak link in the Presidential chain.
Obama is weaker yet. His lethargy about the oil spill is pathetic. The tragedy in the Gulf of Mexico brought home how much of a disaster this Prez is.
How do you and Mosty defend his approach to that problem??

[Native Texan III]

It is a strange World where 300 million Americans who maybe don't know whether to scratch their watches or wind their butts sit around finding each and every fault with one hapless person, a fellow democratically elected American they have chosen, who may be trying their very best to do the right thing for the overall good. How could anyone's best or any one person ever be good enough?
Even the Connecticut suspected witches got a trial of sorts or a ducking test.
We are supposed to be a country that stands up for the individual not crucifies him.

What any President might achieve in 4 or even 8 years is a tiny part of our history and set by circumstances and events of those times, not personalities nor even policies. Many of those events are well beyond their control. Events happened to President Bush, for example, - 9/11, Globalization, Iraq and Afghanistan Wars, Katrina, Wall St banking frauds and collapses. He probably did not want any one of them to happen, but they surely did. Many, many other Americans were involved not just one man. You can only judge a person by their actual deeds and the circumstances of the time, that is walking in their shoes. Not many can ever do that.

[Greyfox]

You can only judge a person by their actual deeds and the circumstances of the time, that is walking in their shoes.

Sorry, the "walk in his shoes" argument never held water and never will.
I don't have to play an instrument to enjoy a symphony.
None of us have to play sports to appreciate athleticism.
A Judge doesn't have to rape to commit a rapist, and the list goes on.

Every President faces circumstances that they didn't start.
They are expected to provide leadership in facing adversity.
Unfortunately, "The Peter Principle" appears very much in effect in this administration.
Native Texan III, please tell us what actual deeds the present President has done.

[cj's dad]

Negotiated a nuclear arms reduction treaty with Russia.

Which they will certainly abide by !!



Began to wind down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Young men are still dying there. Where is Cindy Shehan now ??



And in general began treating other countries with respect and courtesy.

Other leaders are laughing at this buffoon and his bowing and scraping !



You're a laugh a minute :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Native Texan III]

Sorry, the "walk in his shoes" argument never held water and never will.
I don't have to play an instrument to enjoy a symphony.
None of us have to play sports to appreciate athleticism.
A Judge doesn't have to rape to commit a rapist, and the list goes on.

Every President faces circumstances that they didn't start.
They are expected to provide leadership in facing adversity.
Unfortunately, "The Peter Principle" appears very much in effect in this administration.
Native Texan III, please tell us what actual deeds the present President has done.

Sir, perhaps you are confusing judgment (the topic of this thread) with enjoyment etc. A top professional musician usually "judges" a music competition. An experienced "judge" buys a good racehorse or backs one. A trial Judge has years of experience in law and appropriate professional qualifications so that his judgments have credibility. They have all walked at least some of the walk.

My point was about the topic of this thread in terms of making judgments. If you are not aware of what deeds the current President has done then either he has not done any, in which case logically he is blameless or you have no grounds to judge one way or the other. He lead his party to victory and in a democratic country people of all sides should recognize that democratic legitimacy and all Americans should work together to put America back on its feet, not just leave it all up to one man and criticize every move he makes. A divided country is a weak country.

[Greyfox]

If you are not aware of what deeds the current President has done then either he has not done any, in which case logically he is blameless or you have no grounds to judge one way or the other. .

He that states must show.
I am not confusing judgement and enjoyment.
If I enjoy something, I judge it favorably.
If I don't enjoy something, I judge it poorly.
That's Thorndike's Law of Effect by the way, in real life.

You claimed Obama would be judged on his deeds and circumstances.
I asked a simple question: "What deeds has he done?"

Saying either if he has not done any, he is "blameless" logically, is not logical at all. As President he is expected to lead in a proactive manner.
Saying that we can't judge him for his absence of action doesn't hold water.
In legal terms, what he's doing, especially with respect to the Gulf Oil mess is tantamount to "Willful Blindness." In Courts of Law, it is not accepted as a defense and one can be prosecuted for inaction.

So I repeat, "What deeds has he done?"

[bigmack]

He lead his party to victory and in a democratic country people of all sides should recognize that democratic legitimacy and all Americans should work together to put America back on its feet, not just leave it all up to one man and criticize every move he makes. A divided country is a weak country.
That's the fact, Jack. (cue GB America music)

BO is our fearless leader. He won fair & square. http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/7_3_10_12_07_44.png

If you think that I am going to stand back and watch people trash this man and his 'accomplishments' you've got another thing coming.

We need to to stand together with our main man. Even if he leads us into a world of hurt we might never recover from.

We MUST stand by his side. We MUST NOT criticize him. Don't be a divided country. Please!

http://www.greatdreams.com/political/bush-war-criminal.jpg

[Valuist]

An American perspective: if Bush was pathetically unqualified, what does that make Obama?

And if you don't agree that Obama is/was pathetically unqualified, what in Obama's resume before being elected justifies your opinion?

Its funny how Obama's biggest fans are those who don't have to live w/him as THEIR President/leader.

[Sericm]

Negotiated a nuclear arms reduction treaty with Russia. Began to wind down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And in general began treating other countries with respect and courtesy.

Now you name one successful foreign policy accomplishment of George W. Bush in his entire two terms, let alone his first eighteen months. Attacking a country which had ZERO to do with 9/11 is not an accomplishment. P_ _ _ ing off our allies isn't either.

AND WHERE EXACTLY DOES THIS GET HIM!
Kim Jong Il threatens the U..S and the Far East with nuclear war.
Ahmadinejad threatens the U.S. and Isreal with annihilation.
Hugo Chavez siezes American oil rings and laughs at Obama and probably gives him the finger behind his back.

Meanwhile the leader of the free world BOWS TO A SAUDI KING AND A JAPANESE EMPORER. I guess in your liberal view thats treating other countries with respect and courtesy.

And by the way that nuclear treaty agreement with Putin isn't worth the pen and paper its written with trust me.:ThmbDown:

[hcap]

That's the fact, Jack. (cue GB America music)

BO is our fearless leader. He won fair & square. http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/7_3_10_12_07_44.png

If you think that I am going to stand back and watch people trash this man and his 'accomplishments' you've got another thing coming.

We need to to stand together with our main man. Even if he leads us into a world of hurt we might never recover from.

We MUST stand by his side. We MUST NOT criticize him. Don't be a divided country. Please!

http://www.greatdreams.com/political/bush-war-criminal.jpgI think the objection is not the criticism per se, but the lunacy.The extreme 95% of posts posted HERE that are anti Obama 24/7/365 by the rightwingnut core of PA OT

Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again

[lsbets]

Negotiated a nuclear arms reduction treaty with Russia. Began to wind down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And in general began treating other countries with respect and courtesy.


You trust Putin? Seriously?

The wind down in Iraq began under Bush, the current plan is Bush's plan.

In Afghanistan he fired the commander, handpicked a replacement and then waffled for months as his hand picked commander told him what he needed. Then he had to fire his hand picked commander and hire Bush's guy to fix the mess.

Our relationships with our closest allies are at the lowest point in recent memories. Hell, even the Brits (the government) don't trust the guy. Meanwhile the ones who don't like us so much have figured out just how weak and spineless Obama is, and laugh at him while they do whatever the hell they want. Iran charging ahead getting nukes, North Korea attacking the South, etc, etc .....

Yeah, he's great. :rolleyes:

[Greyfox]

I think the objection is not the criticism per se, but the lunacy.The extreme 95% of posts posted HERE that are anti Obama 24/7/365 by the rightwingnut core of PA OT

Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again

Lunacy? The above post appears to be written by an individual with an obsessive-compulsive disorder and possible echolalia.

Not bothering about that hcap.
You're fed up with the criticism of Obama on this message board.
So take a crack at what we might praise him for.
In specific

1. What foreign policies of Obama have succeeded?
2. Can we praise him for his leadership in the Gulf Oil Crisis?
3. What other deeds, if any, has he accomplished?

If he's such a good leader, those should be easy questions for you to answer hcap.

[PaceAdvantage]

ranking Obama anywhere is ridiculously premature.But I'm supposed to trust their rankings on Bush and Reagan though...according to you.... :lol:

[johnhannibalsmith]

...and ranking Obama anywhere is ridiculously premature.

Apparently, so was supporting and electing him to a position of leadership.

[dav4463]

Bush will go down in history as a much better president than the morons of today give him credit for being. I like Bush.

[BlueShoe]

Reagan quadrupled our national debt building the world's biggest bulldozer to push over a dead tree.
That "dead tree" of yours sure had one hell of a lot of sharp thorns. Like several thousand nuclear warheads, several hundred submarines, thousands of combat aircraft, millions of men either under arms or in ready reserve, etc.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by mostpost
Reagan quadrupled our national debt building the world's biggest bulldozer to push over a dead tree.


Tell that to the millions of people who finally found freedom in 1989.