(Saturday) $250,000 Salvator Mile (New York comes to New Jersey) [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

joanied

06-30-2010, 04:33 PM

Since we're soo good at New York stakes races,
everyone should be able to hammer the cold exacta in this one.

http://i48.tinypic.com/5kh92c.jpg

Munnings/le Grand cru

no....
Le Grand Cru/Munnings

no....
You & I Forever/Munnings

no.... sorry, couldnt resist:D ;) :faint:

Seriously...
Munnings/Duke of Mischief

Tom

06-30-2010, 09:06 PM

A quarter mil and your get 5 lousy entries?
The great experiment? I'll pass.

joanied

06-30-2010, 09:58 PM

A quarter mil and your get 5 lousy entries?
The great experiment? I'll pass.

Can't blame you, Tom... have you seen the Suburban field...except for I Want Revenge...pathetic...remember what that race used to be...WOW!!

The_Knight_Sky

07-01-2010, 09:26 AM

I'll take the Munnings - Gone Astray exacta.

Munnings is drawn alongside new stablemate Le Grand Cru and I can't see
Prado forcing a hot pace.

Gone Astray had a nice race over the track and should clunk up
for a minor check.

______________________

Interesting is that Mine That Bird's allowance prep failed to fill at Churchill.
And it looks like The Firecracker on the grass for his 2010 debut.
Lots of luck trying to gauge fitness with a new horse through a grass effort, Mr. Lukas.

Lukas, who assumed the training of Mine That Bird at Churchill on May 20 for owners Leonard Blach and Mark Allen, has maintained for weeks that the Grade 1 Whitney Handicap on Aug. 7 at Saratoga is the primary immediate goal for Mine That Bird, and while a prep race would be ideal, it is not mandatory. Lukas has nominated Mine That Bird to the Firecracker Handicap, to be run Sunday on the Churchill turf, but the gelding has never raced on grass.

He also said officials at Monmouth Park "had been hustling us" to run Saturday in the Salvator Mile, but he declined to enter that race.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/114330.html

NTamm1215

07-01-2010, 10:11 AM

Can't blame you, Tom... have you seen the Suburban field...except for I Want Revenge...pathetic...remember what that race used to be...WOW!!

Regal Ransom is far from pathetic.

NT

samyn on the green

07-01-2010, 10:11 AM

Cardus

07-01-2010, 10:55 AM

Regal Ransom is far from pathetic.

NT

Stop it.

Stop embarrassing her in public.

Stop it now.

Spalding No!

07-01-2010, 11:06 AM

This is the top to bottom genius of racing. Both New York and New Jersey schedule there graded stakes route race on the same day. No wonder why both races are terrible with short fields. Top to bottom this is the sport with the most selfish idiots and those lacking in the spirit of compromise.
I get your point, but the Suburban and Salvator Mile are not as similar of races as you make it sound. The Suburban historically was far and away a much "loftier" race, though it displays signs of starting to fall by the wayside.

Even if we concede that the races are fighting for the same horses, this can once again be blamed on the Breeder's Cup in two respects. First, they created the extraneous BC Dirt Mile which now tends to cause trainers to "concentrate" on flat mile races, making the pretty much forgotten Salvator Mile (basically a prep for the forgotten Iselin) suddenly an "important" race. Second, this "Win and You're In" BS that the Salvator Mile carries underpins the first point.

joanied

07-01-2010, 11:21 AM

Regal Ransom is far from pathetic.

NT

True. But in the context of a race like this, the field just isn't anything special...IMO. Regal Ransom has been off for a while too...and with Dutrow's rabbit, Regal Ransom may find himself winging it on the front end with the rabbit and come up short.
But again, to clarify my statement...as a whole, for the Suburban, it's a pretty lackluster field (except for IWR), IMO.

PaceAdvantage

07-02-2010, 01:53 PM

Regal Ransom is far from pathetic.

NTThe Suburban field is actually pretty damn nice for a Grade 2 $300,000 race.

I Want Revenge
Regal Ransom
Haynesfield & Convocation ain't exactly slouches either....

I see nothing really to complain about the Suburban. I'm really looking forward to this race.

Dahoss9698

07-02-2010, 02:15 PM

07-02-2010, 02:33 PM

It is a decent race if the two layoff horses can still run.

joanied

07-03-2010, 11:11 AM

The Suburban field is actually pretty damn nice for a Grade 2 $300,000 race.

I Want Revenge
Regal Ransom
Haynesfield & Convocation ain't exactly slouches either....

I see nothing really to complain about the Suburban. I'm really looking forward to this race.

I'm not complaining...just comparing it to what the Suburban used to be...a huge Grade I that everyone wanted to win.
I am looking forward to it also...a lot...even with the short field, I think it's going to be a good race, and especially interesting to see how IWR & RR do. Also look foward to seeing what the fractions will be the first half mile or so...it's gonna fun fun, no doubt:)

andymays

07-03-2010, 06:18 PM

07-03-2010, 06:21 PM

This was about as rediculous a race for Pletcher as it gets. I'm sure he was cussing the whole race as Prado and Gomez didn't know what to do. It was really Prado's fault (although he broke bad) for not clearing off and by not doing that he totally screwed the #1.

Prado has seen much better days.

I wrote to a friend I thought Munnings is done and was going to break down if he keeps racing a few days ago. Hopefully he isn't hurt, but I'm not sure what Pletcher was thinking. That said, can the fractions be right? It seems very strange given the way the race played out.

slew101

07-03-2010, 06:22 PM

I think we've seen the last of Munnings on the race track.

andymays

07-03-2010, 06:46 PM

You could see Gomez had a plan and Prado was screwing it up for him. Gomez held the hell out of Munnings just to let the #2 go and the #2 never went. It was a cluster "you know what". ;)

07-03-2010, 06:52 PM

You could see Gomez had a plan and Prado was screwing it up for him. Gomez held the hell out of Munnings just to let the #2 go and the #2 never went. It was a cluster "you know what". ;)

Looking at where they finished do you really think it mattered?

andymays

07-03-2010, 06:57 PM

Looking at where they finished do you really think it mattered?

Yes. It was a disaster race for Pletcher.

07-03-2010, 06:59 PM

Yes. It was a disaster race for Pletcher.

I don't buy it for a minute. Both horses ran dreadfully. What plan was going to put either in the winner's circle?

andymays

07-03-2010, 07:01 PM

I don't buy it for a minute. Both horses ran dreadfully. What plan was going to put either in the winner's circle?

Given the fractions the #2 is supposed to be in front by 5 lengths.

The #2 is easily the only pace and speed was winning at Monmouth today. Gomez was trying to let him go instead of going on with it himself. You could see Gomez trying to let the #2 clear off but Prado was doing what Prado usually does. The wrong thing. :bang:

07-03-2010, 07:26 PM

We'll have to agree to disagree.

On Munnings, he looks like another horse that had his spirit taken by Rachel. There are quite a few that have not returned to form after trying to run with her.

andymays

07-03-2010, 07:31 PM

We'll have to agree to disagree.

On Munnings, he looks like another horse that had his spirit taken by Rachel. There are quite a few that have not returned to form after trying to run with her.

It was just an ugly race if you had the #1 and #2 going like me. I'm traumatized. ;)

joanied

07-03-2010, 08:23 PM

It was just an ugly race if you had the #1 and #2 going like me. I'm traumatized. ;)

You're funny:D
It WAS an ugly race...my horses could run faster than that...maybe the worst mile race I've ever seen:ThmbDown: I feel bad for Munnings...maybe Rachel did take his heart away.

point given

07-03-2010, 09:41 PM

You're funny:D
It WAS an ugly race...my horses could run faster than that...maybe the worst mile race I've ever seen:ThmbDown: I feel bad for Munnings...maybe Rachel did take his heart away.

I agree, it was a nonrace and I was there to witness it after that big effort in the UN by Chinchon. Guess Cornelio came across the Hudson for a reason but Gone Astray looked off form on the pps and i used Cru and Mischief, couldn't figure out why Munnings was entered in a 2 turn mile when he seems to be a one turner at 7F. 25. 50. half in a mile $250k race ? Plueeaazzze

andymays

07-03-2010, 09:42 PM

andymays

07-03-2010, 10:05 PM

Funny How? How am I funny? Am I funny lookin? Do I write funny? Just how the eff funny am I damniit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4jz00Eelbk

joanied, read the PM. I'm a fan so don't take it wrong. It's an opportunity. ;)

I do have a few gangster tendencies though. I just can't talk about em. ;)

Tom

07-03-2010, 11:16 PM

Munnings looked like a non-contender going into the race and failed to live up to that analysis. He was in no way a legit contender today. Not to redboard, but he had nothing to like about him.

point given

07-03-2010, 11:27 PM

Funny How? How am I funny? Am I funny lookin? Do I write funny? Just how the eff funny am I damniit?

You're a funny guy ! Now go get your shine box. :)

point given

07-03-2010, 11:32 PM

Munnings looked like a non-contender going into the race and failed to live up to that analysis. He was in no way a legit contender today. Not to redboard, but he had nothing to like about him.

Exactly, and Brad Thomas makes him 8/5 ML - Sometimes i wonder his motivations in the ML when I see him betting and wonder if he's laughing to himself

the little guy

07-03-2010, 11:37 PM

Exactly, and Brad Thomas makes him 8/5 ML - Sometimes i wonder his motivations in the ML when I see him betting and wonder if he's laughing to himself

I'm confused. Munnings was 6:5.....are you saying Brad should have made him lower? Are you also saying that what odds Brad thinks a horse will be should have anything to do with who he thinks is going to win the race? Or, are you saying that Brad sets the line and the bettors then follow in line?

Not trying to be a jerk, but I am really confused by what your post means.

point given

07-04-2010, 12:06 AM

I'm confused. Munnings was 6:5.....are you saying Brad should have made him lower? Are you also saying that what odds Brad thinks a horse will be should have anything to do with who he thinks is going to win the race? Or, are you saying that Brad sets the line and the bettors then follow in line?

Not trying to be a jerk, but I am really confused by what your post means.

Disagreed with his line of 8/5 , should have been higher.while I understand that the line maker is predicting what odds the public will bet, I wonder about the correlation of leading the sheep vs the line makers own betting against it. Clearer ? Maybe I'm confused. Not saying he does this as he almost always picks longer priced horses against his own line , sort of a self fulfilling thing.

the little guy

07-04-2010, 12:11 AM

Disagreed with his line of 8/5 , should have been higher.while I understand that the line maker is predicting what odds the public will bet, I wonder about the correlation of leading the sheep vs the line makers own betting against it. Clearer ? Maybe I'm confused. Not saying he does this as he almost always picks longer priced horses against his own line , sort of a self fulfilling thing.

OK, so Brad did a good job of making the ML, i.e. he did his job well, and you disagreed and were thus wrong.

Now, you are also suggesting Brad is trying to mislead people into doing what....betting horses in order to make their odds correspond to the line that Brad made?

This is utter madness. And, I'll tell you something else, extremely unfair to a person of Brad Thomas's integrity.

PaceAdvantage

07-04-2010, 12:22 AM

OK, so Brad did a good job of making the ML, i.e. he did his job well, and you disagreed and were thus wrong.This is exactly what point given was attempting to state, whether he knows it or not...

Some people may not understand what the job of a morning line maker is...or maybe they're just jealous of Brad Thomas and will take any silly attempt to swipe at him in "public?" You never can tell these days...

the little guy

07-04-2010, 12:26 AM

This is exactly what point given was attempting to state, whether he knows it or not...

Some people may not understand what the job of a morning line maker is...or maybe they're just jealous of Brad Thomas and will take any silly attempt to swipe at him in "public?" You never can tell these days...

I mean, Brad gets on TV and tells everyone who he is betting....but supposedly people would rather follow his ML?

How does this make ANY sense?

point given

07-04-2010, 12:34 AM

OK, so Brad did a good job of making the ML, i.e. he did his job well, and you disagreed and were thus wrong.

Now, you are also suggesting Brad is trying to mislead people into doing what....betting horses in order to make their odds correspond to the line that Brad made?

This is utter madness. And, I'll tell you something else, extremely unfair to a person of Brad Thomas's integrity.

I'm not impugning his integrity, which he has in spades. I'm merely commenting on a linemaker doing his job and whether that job and their own betting jibe. I agreed with Tom that Munnings had little chance in the race and yet the line was 8/5. Now theoretically if he had made his line at 4/1 would he have gone off at 6/5 ? or were the bettors following the line reflecting the Pletcher/Gomez combo and Brad reflecting that and reenforcing it ? It just makes me wonder.:eek:

the little guy

07-04-2010, 12:38 AM

I'm not impugning his integrity, which he has in spades. I'm merely commenting on a linemaker doing his job and whether that job and their own betting jibe. I agreed with Tom that Munnings had little chance in the race and yet the line was 8/5. Now theoretically if he had made his line at 4/1 would he have gone off at 6/5 ? or were the bettors following the line reflecting the Pletcher/Gomez combo and Brad reflecting that and reenforcing it ? It just makes me wonder.:eek:

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I think you really haven't thought this through, because at the very least if what you are saying is true you ARE impugning his integrity...or criticizing him for doing his job well.....or both.

I believe you that you aren't trying to accuse him of something untoward, I know you're not that kind of person, but I really think you aren't thinking this through.

PaceAdvantage

07-04-2010, 12:43 AM

I agreed with Tom that Munnings had little chance in the race and yet the line was 8/5.The line is not supposed to reflect the linemaker's personal assessment of the horse. It's supposed to reflect what the linemaker thinks the crowd will say. But you know this.

thaskalos

07-04-2010, 12:55 AM

The line is not supposed to reflect the linemaker's personal assessment of the horse. It's supposed to reflect what the linemaker thinks the crowd will say. But you know this. Nor is there a conflict of interest if the linemaker is betting on different horses than the ones he lists as favored in the race...

point given

07-04-2010, 01:14 AM

The line is not supposed to reflect the linemaker's personal assessment of the horse. It's supposed to reflect what the linemaker thinks the crowd will say. But you know this.

Yes. I do however remember a long time ago in the Belmont stakes , I hit my largest exacta ever of Lemon Drop Kid over Vision and Verse ($1500). I was at the Meadowlands teletheater and didn't understand why the Monmouth TV had a different payout of $500 or so. This when they had their own pool.and learned that Brad had given it out there. So he is respected by alot of people.

I just think that linemakers have a sort of self fulfilling job of giving the public the obvious horses and that it reenforces the chalk mentality. I just tried the Monmouth site to check out his handicapping of today but it was gone. So....

Maybe TLG is correct and I'm tired and haven't thought it out. So Ill get off til tomorrow, which is already today.:blush:

andymays

07-04-2010, 08:42 AM

You're a funny guy ! Now go get your shine box. :)

That's good. :ThmbUp:

Now in the trunk and off to moms. ;)

and how about that Salvator Mile?

The_Knight_Sky

07-04-2010, 11:14 AM

Guess Cornelio came across the Hudson for a reason but Gone Astray looked off form on the pps ....

This is a good example of how individuals can see the race differently. I thought Gone Astray was going to move forward off his last race over the track. That's how Shug handles his stock. Gone Astray has regained his form heading to the summer and autumn - just like last year.

While I'm still waiting for Munnings to cross the finish line, I can't help
wonder if a return to the sprinting ranks is on the horizon. Even retirement is a possibility as we're not seeing his best races on the track. He has now won but only 1 of his last 7 races after showing tremendous promise as a two year old.

Grade 3 $250,000 Salvator Mile winner:

Gone Astray 4yo by Dixie Union - Illicit (Mr. Prospector) Cornelio Velasquez up

http://i50.tinypic.com/1zz10ed.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_knight_sky/)

more pics maybe viewed here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_knight_sky/

OTM Al

07-04-2010, 12:10 PM

Not sure I'd bet anything back coming out of that race. Ugly all around.

joanied

07-04-2010, 03:34 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4jz00Eelbk

joanied, read the PM. I'm a fan so don't take it wrong. It's an opportunity. ;)

I do have a few gangster tendencies though. I just can't talk about em. ;)

hey andy...yeah...we did the PM thing this morning :cool: ...you're quotes from that Wiseguys scene are good... beleive it or not...I have some ganster tendencies too...can't help it, I was raised in Bensonhurst...most everyone was 'connected' :eek: ...but, I wouldn't shoot you for being f'n funny, like Pesci would:D

Have a good one, andy:ThmbUp: ...badabing!!