Birth Cert Question is back

[Dave Schwartz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo3Aj2eqmS8

BREAKING NEWS! Hawaii Elections Official: Obama not born here! JUNE 10, 2010 - SMOKING GUN?

[jballscalls]

if all this birth certificate stuff came true and he was not born here, what is the process? is he ousted and Biden becomes President?

[Dave Schwartz]

JBalls,

You have just evoked a nightmare of possibilities. LOL

Here is an exercise... Imagine the line of succession...


Office Current Officer
1 Vice President Joe Biden
2 Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi
3 President pro tempore of the Senate Daniel Inouye
4 Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton
5 Secretary of the Treasury Timothy Geithner
6 Secretary of Defense Robert Gates
7 Attorney General Eric Holder


How many of these choices are absolutely terrifying?

[TJDave]

This changes everything. A credible accusation. :rolleyes:

[boxcar]

This changes everything. A credible accusation. :rolleyes:

I tell ya what would change everything: Either you or 'cap come up with the long form copy of this birth certificate. Anything less than this, all the claims that he's a U.S. citizen are based on nothing more than an argument from silence.

Looking forward to seeing you come up with one for us.

Boxcar

[TheBid9]

This controversey has been going on since he was sworn in and at this point, I'm not sure I'd trade the "chief incompetent" for any of the "subordinate incompetents" on Dave's list of successors.

[serp]

I fully support criticizing the president (whether previous or current) but don't you all feel a little silly on this one? He's provided as much proof as any other president has done.

A few crackpots looking for some media face-time stir the pot once and a while and you all eat it up like pigs in slop. It makes it hard to distinguish between real criticism and trolling (which may be the point I guess).

[TJDave]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp


Phuleeze.

Obama was on the ballot in 50 states. Registrars in each state, including those with highly partisan Republican agendas, verified his credentials. Additionally, his mother was a U.S. citizen. Barack Obama was issued a U.S. passport.

There are endless legitimate reasons for complaint against the qualifications of this jerk. Pick another or act a fool.

Your choice.

[kenwoodall2]

O'BPama is doing so well tha anti-s have to flame his Pres Quals. This is like everytime GW done something right Demos asked if he had the IQ to be a TX Air Natl Guard pilot, and vomited up his DUI's. This is the same same-old.

[Dick Schmidt]

I've mentioned this before. It doesn't matter where Obama was born, so long as one of his parents was a U.S. citizen, he is a citizen. We have already had a president born outside the US. Herbert Hoover was born in China while his parents were missionaries there. The Dems challenged his fitness to be president and the Supreme Court ruled that he qualified as a natural born citizen. This is a non-issue guys.

As a side note, about the first dozen presidents weren't born in the US because it didn't exist when they were born.

Dick


"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson

[hcap]

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/06/bachmann-to-speak-at-birther-websites-conference.php?ref=fpb

Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN), who has hit the road to speak to all sorts of conservative audiences, will put in an appearance before a very illustrious crowd this fall: A conference organized by the Birther website World Net Daily.

WND's "Taking America Back" conference will be held in Miami on September 16-18, and will feature such avowed Birther activists as WND head Joseph Farah, perennial candidate Alan Keyes, and author Jerome Corsi. Also on the list are Bachmann, Ann Coulter and former Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO).

.................................................. ............

Now's your chance guys.
Please post a full report

Box?

[cj's dad]

He has spent Millions- $$$$$$$$$- keeping his live birth certificate and his college application/transcript secret ! Why ?

A valid answer would be welcome.

[bigmack]

I've mentioned this before. It doesn't matter where Obama was born, so long as one of his parents was a U.S. citizen, he is a citizen.
http://people.mags.net/tonchen/birthers.htm

[JustRalph]

I agree it is all hokum.........

But I have one problem........ it is way too easy to present a birth certificate for public view ........why not?

I can get one of mine for 14.95 and post it on the Internet in a day or two.

Why does Obama not do it.........?

[Dave Schwartz]

I've mentioned this before. It doesn't matter where Obama was born, so long as one of his parents was a U.S. citizen, he is a citizen.

Only if they were a citizen OVER 18 when he was born. That is part of the issue.

[jballscalls]

I agree it is all hokum.........

But I have one problem........ it is way too easy to present a birth certificate for public view ........why not?

I can get one of mine for 14.95 and post it on the Internet in a day or two.

Why does Obama not do it.........?

maybe by keeping many of his critics hot on this issue they will forget all the other stuff he's doing?

[boxcar]

Only if they were a citizen OVER 18 when he was born. That is part of the issue.

BINGO! You nailed it. It ain't as cut and dry as some here would like to make it out to be.

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

Only if they were a citizen OVER 18 when he was born. That is part of the issue.She was well past her 18th birthday but not yet 19 when he was born. Get over it. You can vote him out in another 2 years.

[JustRalph]

If the Wiki Articles have her birthday right

Obama's Mother was 18 yrs and approx 9 mths old when he was born

[Dave Schwartz]

She was well past her 18th birthday but not yet 19 when he was born. Get over it. You can vote him out in another 2 years.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger.

Personally, I believe that this ship has sailed. The time for complaining was before the election.


Dave

[xtb]

The argument that BO is a citizen because his mother was a citizen cannot be used. BO must have been born in Hawaii, in order to be a citizen.



The State Department website ...

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.


(research courtesy of hcap)



One more time, 18 - 14 = 4



http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=723631#post723631

[Greyfox]

This post has taken legs.


http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/29500/Hot-Legs--29614.jpg.

[Dave Schwartz]

Now that I think of it, I am not so much a messenger as a community organizer.

[Greyfox]

I've mentioned this before. It doesn't matter where Obama was born, so long as one of his parents was a U.S. citizen, he is a citizen.


Dick Schmidt.
However true your observation might be, if born elsewhere then he has seriously presented a misrepresentation of self to the electorate.

[Canadian]

What a bunch of gulible fools you birthers are.

Who the hell would choose to go to Kenya to have a baby?

Breaking News!! Jesus.... Breaking so hard all the way to youtube. IS there a conspiracy theory you meatballs don't believe?

The best part of the Video was "Now teaches english at a Western Kentucky university".... and then 5 seconds later it says on the screen "This is wrong". I bet he cleans shit out of the toilets hahaha.

ahahahahahaha... and get this. They call him a "Senior elections offical". When actually, Washington Post.

Takahashi explained that the "senior elections clerk" job that Adams held was a low-level data entry position dealing with voter registration and absentee ballots -- Adams was one of dozens of temporary employees who staffed the pre-election rush.

Man you conspiracy fools are gullible. Any loser off the street tells you what you want to hear and you pigs just lop it up.

Oh well, it's entertaining.

[newtothegame]

What a bunch of gulible fools you birthers are.

Who the hell would choose to go to Kenya to have a baby?

Breaking News!! Jesus.... Breaking so hard all the way to youtube. IS there a conspiracy theory you meatballs don't believe?

Low and behold....a CANADIAN to tell us what meatballs we are here in AMERICA....go figure lol

[Canadian]

Low and behold....a CANADIAN to tell us what meatballs we are here in AMERICA....go figure lol


We got birthers up here too. If this was a conspiracy against George Bush, 95% of Canada would believe it.

Don't mean to imply Americans have a monopoly on foolishness.

[Greyfox]

What a bunch of gulible fools you birthers are.

Who the hell would choose to go to Kenya to have a baby?

.


Women don't usually choose when they'll give birth.
Mrs. Obama, maybe.:rolleyes:
(If an American woman gave birth in Kenya, I can see why she would want it registered in Hawaii.)

[GameTheory]

I don't qualify as a birther, but it looks like the are a couple of legitimate issues. According to the stuff bigmack linked to, the birthplace is not the whole issue. So even if we assume that Obama WAS born in the U.S., that doesn't settle it because his father was not a citizen and baby Barack was apparently granted citizenship of Britain/Kenya at birth via his father. This puts his "natural born citizenship" in one of the uncertain categories because "natural born citizen" has no definition. The only thing we are sure of is that those born on American soil of two U.S. citizens are definitely a natural born citizens, and that those who were definitely not citizens at birth but were granted citizenship later by whatever means are definitely not natural born citizens. Anybody who was born a citizen that isn't in the first category is in doubt because the courts have never defined "natural born citizen" and it is fairly uncertain what anybody might have meant by that at the time.

So, the problem isn't really Barack's -- IF the term was already settled so we had clear criteria, then I would agree that Barack should be compelled to prove his natural born citizenship. However, since he CAN'T prove it because we don't know what it is, and because even going by his plain statements he is already in an uncertain category even if born in the U.S. then it is really up to the courts to settle the matter first. And since no one seems willing to hear the case, what to do?

It would be nice if they could just agree that he is a natural born citizen and put it all to rest. Of course, if they found otherwise and he was deemed illegitimate, then all hell would break loose. This is where I don't understand the birthers -- they seem to think that if his presidency was deemed invalid, we could just get rid of Obama and life would go on. But wouldn't it be total chaos, with some possibility of the utter destruction of the country? I mean, we don't have rules for that (like in sports -- a bad call is a bad call, but generally they stand). You'd have people arguing for the undoing of every piece of presidential business he engaged in, from his court nominees being disqualified to laws being undone (stimulus, health care), military matters, etc etc. You'd probably have the new president and congress scramble to create some sort of emergency "the call stands" law, but the constitutionality of that would also be in question. It would be a mess bigger than I can imagine, and with no valid solution on any side.

If the courts actually did decide to declare him ineligible, one would hope that as part of the prescription for remedying the situation they would spell out that even though he was ineligible (and must immediately resign or maybe even finish the term) that his term thus far was nevertheless "valid". Then life could go on. I'm all for getting Obama out of office, but in an orderly fashion please, preferably via an election.

[Tom]

Who the hell would choose to go to Kenya to have a baby?

His brother lives in hut there. So......someone in his family would.

btw, why dosen't Obama just shut us all up by proving us wrong and showing the damn cert? That would take the wind out of our sails.

[serp]

btw, why dosen't Obama just shut us all up by proving us wrong and showing the damn cert? That would take the wind out of our sails.

Probably because it politically damages the GOP for birthers to keep it up?

[GameTheory]

Probably because it politically damages the GOP for birthers to keep it up?Yeah, I agree. This issue is a PLUS for Obama, not a negative.

[Canadian]

His brother lives in hut there. So......someone in his family would.

btw, why dosen't Obama just shut us all up by proving us wrong and showing the damn cert? That would take the wind out of our sails.

Ha... They could give you guys archieved video of O's mother giving birth on a palm tree and it wouldn't shut you guys up. Nutjobs see what they want to see and that's it. There is NOTHING he could do to stop crazy people from being crazy.

[JustRalph]

Ha... They could give you guys archieved video of O's mother giving birth on a palm tree and it wouldn't shut you guys up. Nutjobs see what they want to see and that's it. There is NOTHING he could do to stop crazy people from being crazy.

he could resign...........

[hcap]

Of the dozens of legal actions and suits challenging Obamas' qualifications as president, none have gotten very far legally. No sympathies from any court.

This issue that is truly dead

[Tom]

Ha... They could give you guys archieved video of O's mother giving birth on a palm tree and it wouldn't shut you guys up. Nutjobs see what they want to see and that's it. There is NOTHING he could do to stop crazy people from being crazy.

You are dead wrong. All he has to do is show proof.

But as long he is to chicken-shat toe show his cert, we use it like the libs would - they got this garbage elected by lying over and over. He got put in office by the not so bright among us. So now, we use that standard. As long he cannot prove his citizenship, or won't, we keep it going over and over, and it pile up with all of his other negatives. Enough peoplewill have thier doubts/fears enhanced by it.

And his mother giving birth on a plam tree...isn't that rather racist of you? Why would you think he was not born in a hospital? Or is this some sort of Canadian tradition?

[Tom]

Of the dozens of legal actions and suits challenging Obamas' qualifications as president, none have gotten very far legally. No sympathies from any court.

This issue that is truly dead

Like your parade of perp walks?
Oh, wait, one Scooter. That was it.

[fast4522]

I think Dick Schmidt said it best as far as BHM, the duty is upon us to WTFU as the electorate and rise to the occasion. The main problem is as adults we are all looking for something, most will not miss something until its lost. Make no mistake they are coming for what is left to your pocket money, oh you have none or have not had any in a long time? TFB, they want more and just because your combined income is way below 250K will not mean shit.

[Canadian]

And his mother giving birth on a plam tree...isn't that rather racist of you? Why would you think he was not born in a hospital? Or is this some sort of Canadian tradition?

No. His mother is white, so no I'm not being racist against a white woman. The palm tree was a reference to Hawaii. It appears it went over your head.

[Canadian]

You are dead wrong. All he has to do is show proof.


No. There is no proof that can satisfy a lunitic. Holocaust deniers, birthers, truthers. They absolutly love the belief.

You beat off to this shit. Obama conspiracy is your crack cocaine. Like any addict, nothing can be said or done to make you give up your drug.

[Tom]

You beat off to this shit. Obama conspiracy is your crack cocaine. Like any addict, nothing can be said or done to make you give up your drug.

Are you under the assumption that talking like a pig on a public forum somehow helps your case?

[boxcar]

Ha... They could give you guys archieved video of O's mother giving birth on a palm tree and it wouldn't shut you guys up. Nutjobs see what they want to see and that's it. There is NOTHING he could do to stop crazy people from being crazy.

Wrong! He could easily produce a copy of the long form of his BC. And then while he's at it, he could get all those records that he spent a gazillion buck to get sealed unsealed.

The only crazy people around here are you gullible Obamamatons who will believe anything this proven pathological liar says. It's pretty irrational to blindly trust liars, don't you think?

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Are you under the assumption that talking like a pig on a public forum somehow helps your case?

He has nothing intelligent or rational to add to the discussion. Let him be. He'll soon self-destruct under the weight of his own self-induced ignorance. I may even help him along... :D :D

Boxcar

[bigmack]

Such a silly subject and so easily resolved. Why ANY level of resistance to just put this to bed? Haul it out. End of story.

Anyone bringing up the question to some are racist, neocon, haters.

Others insist he was born in Kenya.

The fact remains there is a nuance argument about this and it takes place here.
http://people.mags.net/tonchen/birthers.htm

GameTheory addressed it. It's the only reason why the issue is unresolved.

Yet resolution seems so easy. :rolleyes:

[Robert Goren]

Yeah, I agree. This issue is a PLUS for Obama, not a negative. You are right about that. Anybody who brings this up looks a fool and weakens their image in the eyes of most Americans. The birthers are not taken seriously by anybody but themselves. Most people consider them crackpots. The more they bring it up, the better Obama looks by comparision. The birthers are best thing Obama has going for him politically right now. I know that not what some of the posters here don't want to hear it, but it is the truth.

[Canadian]

Such a silly subject and so easily resolved. Why ANY level of resistance to just put this to bed? Haul it out. End of story.

Anyone bringing up the question to some are racist, neocon, haters.

Others insist he was born in Kenya.

The fact remains there is a nuance argument about this and it takes place here.
http://people.mags.net/tonchen/birthers.htm

GameTheory addressed it. It's the only reason why the issue is unresolved.

Yet resolution seems so easy. :rolleyes:


No, it's not easy. Because you are dealing with lunitics. Lunitics will believe what they want to believe.

Did you see the orgin of this thread? Look how much bullshit is in that single story.

Do you think any of the losers give a shit? No they don't.

Lets say tommorow Obama produces this birth certificate. Do you actually think these ding dongs will say "oh look at that, we are meatballs"..... No. Let me tell you what would happen.

Some of the many conspiracy theory websites, would trump up some "expert" with some internet diploma to discredit the document. The "ink", "the text", "the date"...... some mustard stain on the top corner..... something.... and that would be it. 3 days later Tom would be back on here feeding us the lastest round of bullshit....... So no, the story, the fantasy, the absolute smoldering pile of thoroughly debunked bullshit, will never die..... No matter what!!

[newtothegame]

No, it's not easy. Because you are dealing with lunitics. Lunitics will believe what they want to believe.

Did you see the orgin of this thread? Look how much bullshit is in that single story.

Do you think any of the losers give a shit? No they don't.

Lets say tommorow Obama produces this birth certificate. Do you actually think these ding dongs will say "oh look at that, we are meatballs"..... No. Let me tell you what would happen.

Some of the many conspiracy theory websites, would trump up some "expert" with some internet diploma to discredit the document. The "ink", "the text", "the date"...... some mustard stain on the top corner..... something.... and that would be it. 3 days later Tom would be back on here feeding us the lastest round of bullshit....... So no, the story, the fantasy, the absolute smoldering pile of thoroughly debunked bullshit, will never die..... No matter what!!

Well, your right...it won't die. And here's another reason it won't. Idiots like you ( since you wish to call people names) continue to argue against those who keep bringing it up. Let the issue die! Kind of hard from either side to make arguements if your argueing with yourself...right??

:bang:

[bigmack]

The birthers are best thing Obama has going for him politically right now.
Quite the vote of confidence. :rolleyes:

I get why you portray 'birthers' as loons.

Riddle me this though: Why doesn't he put this to rest himself?

[johnhannibalsmith]

Quite the vote of confidence. :rolleyes:
...

I was sort of wondering why Mr. Goren chose to make his point using that phrasing... laf...

[bigmack]

No matter what!!
I haven't the slightest idea who you are but I have a sneakin' suspicion you have Cheeto crumbs on the front of your Star Trek T-Shirt, but I digress...

So you's sayin' he ain't proffering any evidence of his birth cause it will never be accepted by CRAZY people? :lol:

[Canadian]

I haven't the slightest idea who you are but I have a sneakin' suspicion you have Cheeto crumbs on the front of your Star Trek T-Shirt, but I digress...

Well I guess you do know me.

So you's sayin' he ain't proffering any evidence of his birth cause it will never be accepted by CRAZY people? :lol:

Right. You never satisfy loons, so don't bother trying.

[hcap]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

"The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response."


......We think our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, who also dug into some of these loopy theories put it pretty well: "It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything’s possible. But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over."

In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961:

http://www.factcheck.org/demos/factcheck/imagefiles/image/Ask%20FactCheck%20Images/Birth%20Certificate/announcementclose-up.jpg

The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.
Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday

[Canadian]

Tom has the ability to look at that post for over an hour and not actually see anything.

[hcap]

Not only Tom.

[Tom]

Tom has the ability to look at that post for over an hour and not actually see anything.

I look at yours and I see something right off the bat.

[Greyfox]

Canadian you seem to have a propensity for name calling.
In this thread you've called other posters pigs, lunatics, loons....
In doing so you diminish whatever credibility that you might have.
Do you have anything of substance to add to the thread other than the fact you believe Obama was born American?

Tom and several other people have said that this problem could be cleared up if he were to show the Certificate.
What's so difficult about that request??
Please provide us with an answer to that question without the name calling and labelling.

[Canadian]

Tom and several other people have said that this problem could be cleared up if he were to show the Certificate.
What's so difficult about that request??
Please provide us with an answer to that question without the name calling and labelling.


That isn't true. In my experience with conspiracy theory fantasies.... and lets face it they are fantasies.... is that the people holding them will NEVER give them up. NEVER. As I said above, if Obama were to produce his birth certificate, it would just be a fake birthcertificate, that's all.

[Canadian]

Do you have anything of substance to add to the thread other than the fact you believe Obama was born American?


No probably not. I could post the same debunking links as the poster above, but people harboring insane conspiracy fantasies, avoid them like kryptonite.

[46zilzal]

That isn't true. In my experience with conspiracy theory fantasies.... and lets face it they are fantasies.... is that the people holding them will NEVER give them up. NEVER. As I said above, if Obama were to produce his birth certificate, it would just be a fake birth certificate, that's all.
This is outlined ad nauseum in the great book The Republican War on Science by Chris Mooney with layered excuses for every scientifically substantiated position much akin to the situation here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhzf9bXm96U

[Tom]

No probably not. I could post the same debunking links as the poster above, but people harboring insane conspiracy fantasies, avoid them like kryptonite.

Obviously, you have no clue. It is a conspiracy to do what?
It is a simple question - we want to see the cert. YOU have the insane response to it.

[bigmack]

Anyone interested in the nuance of this thing would read this:
http://people.mags.net/tonchen/birthers.htm

The U.S. Constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787. Anyone born after that date must be a "natural born citizen" in order to be eligible to serve as president of the United States

President Obama publicly admits that his father was a Kenyan native who never became a U.S. citizen. At birth, President Obama acquired British/Kenyan citizenship by descent from his father. Thus, the 2008 election was the first time in history that the United States knowingly elected a post-1787-born president whose parents were not both U.S. citizens. Moreover, 2008 was the first time that the U.S. knowingly elected a post-1787-born president who was a foreign citizen (in addition to being a U.S. citizen) at the time of his birth.

U.S.-born children of non-citizen parents are U.S. citizens by modern-day law, but there is unresolved doubt as to whether such children are Constitutional natural born citizens. This doubt is not based on the imaginings of tin-foil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorists on the lunatic fringe of society. This doubt comes from what the Supreme Court has actually said, as well as a variety of other historical and legal sources which are presented and discussed here.
____________________________________

So the discussion is whether or not he is a natural born citizen. Can any of the name calling dolts like Canadian assure any of us that he is an NBC?

[GameTheory]

Anyone interested in the nuance of this thing would read this:
http://people.mags.net/tonchen/birthers.htm

The U.S. Constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787. Anyone born after that date must be a "natural born citizen" in order to be eligible to serve as president of the United States

President Obama publicly admits that his father was a Kenyan native who never became a U.S. citizen. At birth, President Obama acquired British/Kenyan citizenship by descent from his father. Thus, the 2008 election was the first time in history that the United States knowingly elected a post-1787-born president whose parents were not both U.S. citizens. Moreover, 2008 was the first time that the U.S. knowingly elected a post-1787-born president who was a foreign citizen (in addition to being a U.S. citizen) at the time of his birth.

U.S.-born children of non-citizen parents are U.S. citizens by modern-day law, but there is unresolved doubt as to whether such children are Constitutional natural born citizens. This doubt is not based on the imaginings of tin-foil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorists on the lunatic fringe of society. This doubt comes from what the Supreme Court has actually said, as well as a variety of other historical and legal sources which are presented and discussed here.
____________________________________

So the discussion is whether or not he is a natural born citizen. Can any of the name calling dolts like Canadian assure any of us that he is an NBC?

Which means, as I said earlier, that even if he can prove he was born in Hawaii, the matter is left unresolved, because NBC has no definition. We know it includes those born in the U.S. of two U.S. citizen parents (that much has been stated by the courts), but if it includes anyone else we don't know. Note that this also puts John McCain's NBC status in the same unclear category, as he was born on a military base in the Panama Canal zone, which contrary to popular belief is not considered U.S. soil and does not automatically confer citizenship. He of course gets his citizenship from his parents, but his NBC status is nevertheless in doubt.

NO ONE can clear up this matter except for the courts, by explicitly defining what the criteria are to be an NBC.

[bigmack]

And that's the name of that tune.

To this day, the natural born citizenship of U.S.-born children of non-citizen parents remains in doubt.

[Tom]

All I want, as HIS BOSS, is to see his damn papers.
I do not take the word of any gubbermint flunky on anything.
No conspiracy, just no pablum for me. Where's the BEEF?

[Canadian]

He has spent Millions- $$$$$$$$$- keeping his live birth certificate and his college application/transcript secret ! Why ?

A valid answer would be welcome.



Really. Did he really spend millions of dollars keeping his birth certificate secret. Really. Please provide a source for that.

[riskman]

____________________________________

So the discussion is whether or not he is a natural born citizen. Can any of the name calling dolts[B like Canadian assure any of us that he is an NBC?

Nice article BM but can any of the non dolts define a NBC ? I guess if BO mom had a "natural" child birth he meets the NBC test.

[hcap]

Tom and several other people have said that this problem could be cleared up if he were to show the Certificate.
What's so difficult about that request??
Please provide us with an answer to that question without the name calling and labelling.See my post # 52 above. The "Short Form is as valid as the 'Long Form". And it is posted publicly
Case closed

[hcap]

NO ONE can clear up this matter except for the courts, by explicitly defining what the criteria are to be an NBC.There have been dozens of legal callenges by birthers. None have been successful. So the question is legally settled for now unless at some point some future suit has enough merit to reach the Supreme Court. Not likely

[GameTheory]

There have been dozens of legal callenges by birthers. None have been successful. So the question is legally settled for now unless at some point some future suit has enough merit to reach the Supreme Court. Not likelyI meant the defining who and who is not a "natural born citizen" -- setting the rules, not specifically anything to do with Obama. That is not settled until they decide to rule on it. The courts have refused to hear the cases, and probably justifiably so in most cases because they are silly, proceeding from the assumption as they are that Obama is an illegitimate president and therefore he didn't have the right to exercise this or that power. The problem is more basic than that -- you have to be a "natural born citizen" to be president and what an NBC *is* has never been legally defined in the history of the country, nor it is obviously clear what was intended.

Some of the cases have involved going after election officials for just putting him on the ballot. It seems like that might have more merit as SOMEONE must be responsible for determining who and who isn't eligible, and since "natural born citizen" is undefined and his status is legitimately in question (again, even if he was born in Hawaii) then it seems reasonable that we could get a ruling here please. (Also again, John McCain's status as an NBC is just as much in question, so all of this really should have been settled before they were even nominated.) If McCain had won and people were bringing up all these questions about his status (which McCain himself wouldn't even be able to answer for, as Obama cannot either), would you perhaps be a little more interested in settling this question?

Isn't it reasonable that we should know what the rules are for the eligibility of the highest office in the land? It can't really be settled completely satisfactorily until we have clear criteria, and we do not. (And we didn't well before any of us even heard of Obama -- it really isn't about him.)

I am with you on the birth cert stuff; I think that is all silly and a waste of time. I don't think it is up to Obama to prove or do anything here (yet anyway, in the absence of rules what is the point?).

But there are real issues here still.

[ceejay]

I meant the defining who and who is not a "natural born citizen" -- setting the rules, not specifically anything to do with Obama.

I am with you on the birth cert stuff; I think that is all silly and a waste of time. I don't think it is up to Obama to prove or do anything here (yet anyway, in the absence of rules what is the point?).

But there are real issues here still.
So the goal posts will continually move, and some people will never believe that Obama is a legitimate president.

[Tom]

I still do not believe he is an American.
NOTHING about him suggests that he is.

[ceejay]

Tom,

Just curious, is it his birth situation that makes you believe Obama is not an American? Or, is it his political views. For example, if you took somebody with his exact beliefs, education, etc. and put it in the body of a person you saw born in the United States with parents who showed you US passports, would you say that he or she is not an American?

[boxcar]

Really. Did he really spend millions of dollars keeping his birth certificate secret. Really. Please provide a source for that.

Better yet. Since you think it's not hidden, go dig it up for us.

Boxcar

[hcap]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

"If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the
time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States
for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age
of 16." Since Barack Obama only had one U.S. citizen parent (his
mother), and his mother had not been residing in the U.S. for at least
_five years after the age of 16_ when Barack was born (because she
herself was only 18 at the time), then he's not a natural-born citizen.

A few facets of this claim immediately jump out as being far-fetched:
first, that a sitting U.S. Senator who has already spent a good deal of
time and money securing his party's nomination for the presidency would
suddenly be discovered as ineligible due to an obscure provision of U.S.
law; and second, that U.S. law would essentially penalize someone who
would otherwise qualify for natural-born citizenship status simply
because his mother was too young. The fact is, the qualifications listed
in the example quoted above are moot because they refer to someone who
was born _outside the United States_. Since Barack Obama was born in
Hawaii, they do not apply to him.

The Fourteenth Amendment states that "all persons born or naturalized in
the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens
of the United States." Since Hawaii is part of the United States, even
if Barack Obama's parents were both non-U.S. citizens who hadn't even
set foot in the country until just before he was born, he'd still
qualify as a natural-born citizen."

[Greyfox]

Since Hawaii is part of the United States, even
if Barack Obama's parents were both non-U.S. citizens who hadn't even
set foot in the country until just before he was born, he'd still
qualify as a natural-born citizen."

You're assuming he was born in Hawaii.
His birth was announced in Hawaii.

[PaceAdvantage]

No. There is no proof that can satisfy a lunitic. Holocaust deniers, birthers, truthers. They absolutly love the belief.

You beat off to this shit. Obama conspiracy is your crack cocaine. Like any addict, nothing can be said or done to make you give up your drug.We're way too far into this thread for me to do anything about this now, but this kind of language is inappropriate going forward. There will be no more warnings.

[hcap]

You're assuming he was born in Hawaii.
His birth was announced in Hawaii.
Home address is given. Maybe the Obama administration has a flying Delorean powered by plutonium and time traveled back to alter the records? :D :D :D


http://www.factcheck.org/demos/factcheck/imagefiles/image/Ask%20FactCheck%20Images/Birth%20Certificate/announcementclose-up.jpg

[Tom]

Tom,

Just curious, is it his birth situation that makes you believe Obama is not an American? Or, is it his political views. For example, if you took somebody with his exact beliefs, education, etc. and put it in the body of a person you saw born in the United States with parents who showed you US passports, would you say that he or she is not an American?

Exactly. Cockroaches are born here, too. That is my point.
Frankly, a roach would be a better leader than this bundle of bumble.

[Tom]

Home address is given. Maybe the Obama administration has a flying Delorean powered by plutonium and time traveled back to alter the records? :D :D :D


http://www.factcheck.org/demos/factcheck/imagefiles/image/Ask%20FactCheck%20Images/Birth%20Certificate/announcementclose-up.jpg

A newspaper once said Dewey Won.
you gotta get better sources.

For a topic that is so cut and dried closed, you keep posting about it a lot.

[hcap]

A newspaper once said Dewey Won.
you gotta get better sources.

For a topic that is so cut and dried closed, you keep posting about it a lot.
Births and deaths are covered accurately all the time. No pronosticating required. No interpretation required. No political favoritism needed.

Cot and dried??

According the lunacy fringe this is "THE ISSUE THAT WON"T DIE"

You guys keep dragging out the corpse.
The sane among us keep reminding you of it's passong.

[boxcar]

Births and deaths are covered accurately all the time. No pronosticating required. No interpretation required. No political favoritism needed.

Cot and dried??

According the lunacy fringe this is "THE ISSUE THAT WON"T DIE"

You guys keep dragging out the corpse.
The sane among us keep reminding you of it's passong.

Only because no one has dragged out the long form of his birth certificate; therefore there is no real record of his actual birth. The ROLB (short form) does not = BC (long form), even though you guys on the lunatic left keep insisting that it does. Drag out the real thing for us, 'cap, so that we can put this bad boy to rest. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[fast4522]

People are doubting the creditability in large numbers to do this.

[hcap]

Only because no one has dragged out the long form of his birth certificate; therefore there is no real record of his actual birth. The ROLB (short form) does not = BC (long form), even though you guys on the lunatic left keep insisting that it does. Drag out the real thing for us, 'cap, so that we can put this bad boy to rest. :rolleyes:

BoxcarOnce again...

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-...in_the_usa.html

"The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response."

[boxcar]

Once again...

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-...in_the_usa.html

"The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response."

Strange laws or policies in Hawaii. My wife and I in recent years requested certified copies of our birth certificates (both from different states) and we received the long form. They contain ALL the birth info in it. If the Dtate Fept. accepts a mere Record of Live Birth that's nonsense because such a record does not necessarily mean that the person was born in that state. Again, a ROLB and the long form of a BC are not the same thing. Close maybe...but yet so far. Close maybe...but still no cigar. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[hcap]

Record of Live Birth that's nonsense because such a record does not necessarily mean that the person was born in that stateWhy not?

The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department

[boxcar]

Why not?

The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department

"WHY NOT", YOU ASK? :bang: :bang: Are you for real!?

The answer is right in the paragraph you quote, i.e. "...and draws from a database with fewer details." Well, isn't that convenient. Is not the devil often found in details...especially in missing ones? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Have you ever heard of lying by omission? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[cj's dad]

Your photo and caption is not funny and is below the belt.:ThmbDown:

The photo and caption are despicable !! I recommend a loss of posting privileges and I am 100 % serious.

[GameTheory]

That photo joke has been around forever, and I've seen it on this forum before I think. It is in bad taste, I suppose, but I don't find it offensive.

[Rookies]

That photo joke has been around forever, and I've seen it on this forum before I think. It is in bad taste, I suppose, but I don't find it offensive.

CITE YOUR THREAD HERE! I really F-DOUBT IT! :mad:

And, of course, you wouldn't find it offensive, if you didn't have a family member with special needs! Nor, do you have clue one about the benefits of such organizations to help same.

Amazing that people have their heads so securely up their ass that they can't see the light of day of persons with disabilities.

[Grits]

Thinking of you and your kind.

No, maybe to some its not offensive, Game Theory. Still, I can't imagine not finding it pathetic that someone would post this. Having been around so long--I guess it can still garner some real hearty laughs. And man, who doesn't love laughing at retarded children and adults!!!:lol:

THIS IS A CHILD LIKE MY OWN. He could be MINE except that my son is 34 years old--grown. And has won many SO medals over the years. There are thousands with Down Syndrome and other mental handicaps/special needs--and NOT by any choice of their own who participate in the SO games every year nationwide and WORLDWIDE.

They have limitations, yes. But tell me--what in the would be your excuse? NO ONE should have the right to post something this unkind.

Barring any accidents that could cause trauma or severe brain damage, may you, your children and your grandchildren always attain the level of achievement, and superior function that you've shown here.

[GameTheory]

CITE YOUR THREAD HERE! I really F-DOUBT IT! :mad: Not sure how I could search for a picture. It was long ago, though -- years. I've definitely seen that picture on a forum before, and I rarely visit others.

And, of course, you wouldn't find it offensive, if you didn't have a family member with special needs! Nor, do you have clue one about the benefits of such organizations to help same.

Amazing that people have their heads so securely up their ass that they can't see the light of day of persons with disabilities.None of that is true. Not finding something offensive has nothing to do with what I know or don't know or have a clue about persons with disabilities or the benefits of such organizations or who or who is not in my family. You are making wild assumptions.

It just means I don't find it offensive. I don't think it is funny either, but I get the point it is trying to make. I said it was in bad taste, but some things that are in bad taste are all the funnier for it. (Not this, but some things.) I don't want to drag out this off-topicness, but curious, do you find any use of the word "retarded" (as a pejorative towards a person or an idea) to be offensive, or is just this picture that bugs you because it's got a real kid there? What is the exact evil here?

[Grits]

Game Theory, for someone I felt was mighty sharp. You just fell flat on your damn face. Your comments don't EVEN warrant anyone's attention, least of all my own, Rookies, Cjd's, or Greyfox.

Coming from you, I can't believe you could be this stupid, or this insensitive.

[GameTheory]

Game Theory, for someone I felt was mighty sharp. You just fell flat on your damn face. Your comments don't EVEN warrant anyone's attention, least of all my own, Rookies, Cjd's, or Greyfox.

Coming from you, I can't believe you could be this stupid, or this insensitive.Then I guess I will lose my chance to be educated, and my ignorant ways will continue. Nobody's perfect. It isn't like I APPROVED of the picture/joke, I wouldn't have posted that in a million years. But am going to lose sleep over it? No.

I'm just wondering what the reason is (in your mind). Maybe I've taking the word offensive too seriously -- to me it really means something and is reserved for significantly bad stuff -- stuff that harms people, not just makes them uneasy due to its rudeness. (Which is what I would call "bad taste".) I don't find over-sensitivity to be a virtue.

I understand the emotional reaction, but that's not a rational reason to base a policy on. I've noticed that when people get offended, it is often that they feel they have "ownership" over a term or concept and are bothered by "unauthorized" use. e.g. You have a mentally-handicapped relative, therefore you get to decide how the word "retarded" is used, black people can use the N-word but white people can't, some certain bad thing has happened to me so the rest of humanity is no longer allowed to joke about such things, etc. Is there in fact a non-emotion-based logic to why this is so terrible? Again, we can agree that is rude or tasteless (as almost all jokes are if you happen to have had that certain thing happen to you that is the object of the joke), and we can then agree that the poster is crass, but he is evil? Posting banned forever? Seems extreme.

By the way, you just called me "stupid". Are you aware that many people are now objecting to that very term as being offensive, and that those people are a subset of exact same people that object to the word "retarded"? (And the only reason people use "retarded" is because all the other words they used to use have been outlawed already by the thought police.) We all fall on the continuum somewhere as to where we draw the line. Am I not allowed to draw it where I like for myself? Why should anyone tell anyone else how they should FEEL? (I didn't tell anyone else NOT to be offended, just that I wasn't.) My emotions are not valid, but yours are?

[boxcar]

Then I guess I will lose my chance to be educated, and my ignorant ways will continue. Nobody's perfect. It isn't like I APPROVED of the picture/joke, I wouldn't have posted that in a million years. But am going to lose sleep over it? No.

I'm just wondering what the reason is (in your mind). Maybe I've taking the word offensive too seriously -- to me it really means something and is reserved for significantly bad stuff -- stuff that harms people, not just makes them uneasy due to its rudeness. (Which is what I would call "bad taste".) I don't find over-sensitivity to be a virtue.

I understand the emotional reaction, but that's not a rational reason to base a policy on. I've noticed that when people get offended, it is often that they feel they have "ownership" over a term or concept and are bothered by "unauthorized" use. e.g. You have a mentally-handicapped relative, therefore you get to decide how the word "retarded" is used, black people can use the N-word but white people can't, some certain bad thing has happened to me so the rest of humanity is no longer allowed to joke about such things, etc. Is there in fact a non-emotion-based logic to why this is so terrible? Again, we can agree that is rude or tasteless (as almost all jokes are if you happen to have had that certain thing happen to you that is the object of the joke), and we can then agree that the poster is crass, but he is evil? Posting banned forever? Seems extreme.

By the way, you just called me "stupid". Are you aware that many people are now objecting to that very term as being offensive, and that those people are a subset of exact same people that object to the word "retarded"? (And the only reason people use "retarded" is because all the other words they used to use have been outlawed already by the thought police.) We all fall on the continuum somewhere as to where we draw the line. Am I not allowed to draw it where I like for myself? Why should anyone tell anyone else how they should FEEL? (I didn't tell anyone else NOT to be offended, just that I wasn't.) My emotions are not valid, but yours are?

A well reasoned, rational reply, GT. For whatever it's worth, I pretty much viewed the graphic the same way you did -- not in good taste. But offended by it?

And if we all get to fly off the ol' emotional handle for subjective, personal reasons, or even, perhaps, for no other reason that Political Correctness today demands that we be offended at this,that or some other thing (otherwise, something is seriously wrong with us if not), then why couldn't Grits' response to you be considered "hate speech"? Grits insults you because she doesn't doesn't subscribe to your idea of what is offensive? A wee bit presumptuous of her that someone has to interpret something and react to something the same as she does.

It's too bad that in this politically correct age in which we live that vulgar and obscene speech (as one example) hasn't become unfashionable at this late date, especially the gratuitous kind so often employed in the name of comedy, entertainment or "the arts". I guess many of us have this as a very low priority issue because we're too busy rationalizing over other matters with which we must be offended, lest we be considered inconsiderate, unkind, uncaring and insensitive by others. I think very many of us are more concerned with paying lip service to "offensive" words or deeds just to have other people approve and think well of us.

Boxcar

[Grits]

You got me again, Boxcar. Dead on the money, you're right. I'm all about, "hate speech." You nailed me. This along with wanting to be popular and needing approval. Its nice to be seen in such fair and welcoming light. I'm amazed how you're able to peg me whenever I open my mouth here in OT.

Still though, knowing me as you do, consider that it may have just a little bit to do with words--some of those you often throw out for the rest of "us."

Here at PA, the population may consist of more agnostics and atheists than those who believe in a Christian God--or any God, for that matter. (You know--its not cool today to believe in God. Certainly not among the highly educated and stratospherically intelligent. :faint: It just isn't.) But you, Boxcar, have a greater understanding of God's word. Maybe you forget, now and then. Or maybe you rule some of it of greater value than other parts of it. Hopefully, you don't use it solely to argue on messageboards, but instead, live it each day. When reading so much anger in some of the posts one can't be sure. (Now, I'm just doing the devil's advocate thing . . . . you know.)

Again. Conducting "hate speech?" Me?

No, Boxcar. Instead, I'm simply an extraordinary mother. And you, unfortunately, haven't had the opportunity to meet me to understand this. Anyway, you continue with your belief that I am capable of hate of any kind, along with my being emotionally nuts and all like that.

Meanwhile, I've always, felt important, as a mother, the words of Matthew 25, verse 40. Honestly, Boxcar I wouldn't be much of one (mother, that is) if I didn't believe in the value of them.

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

[Greyfox]

A big thank you to the Forum Administrators for taking down that totally insensitive and hurtful photo. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[boxcar]

You got me again, Boxcar. Dead on the money, you're right. I'm all about, "hate speech." You nailed me. This along with wanting to be popular and needing approval. Its nice to be seen in such fair and welcoming light. I'm amazed how you're able to peg me whenever I open my mouth here in OT.

Still though, knowing me as you do, consider that it may have just a little bit to do with words--some of those you often throw out for the rest of "us."

Here at PA, the population may consist of more agnostics and atheists than those who believe in a Christian God--or any God, for that matter. (You know--its not cool today to believe in God. Certainly not among the highly educated and stratospherically intelligent. :faint: It just isn't.) But you, Boxcar, have a greater understanding of God's word. Maybe you forget, now and then. Or maybe you rule some of it of greater value than other parts of it. Hopefully, you don't use it solely to argue on messageboards, but instead, live it each day. When reading so much anger in some of the posts one can't be sure. (Now, I'm just doing the devil's advocate thing . . . . you know.)

Again. Conducting "hate speech?" Me?

No, Boxcar. Instead, I'm simply an extraordinary mother. And you, unfortunately, haven't had the opportunity to meet me to understand this. Anyway, you continue with your belief that I am capable of hate of any kind, along with my being emotionally nuts and all like that.

Meanwhile, I've always, felt important, as a mother, the words of Matthew 25, verse 40. Honestly, Boxcar I wouldn't be much of one (mother, that is) if I didn't believe in the value of them.

[/i]

I see the meaning of my post has eluded you. Truly, contributing hate speech to you was just as absurd as you slamming GT for not seeing things your way on that graphic. That's why I used such an absurd example.

But I laud you for being such a great mom. I will make a concerted effort on mama's day to remember you in a special way. ;)

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

Grits

I admire your post and position on mothering. Well said. :ThmbUp:

What some people don't realize here this is NOT ABOUT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.
First of all, the child in that picture is to be admired for his efforts in overcoming a severe handicap as best he can. Organizers of those competitions are to be applauded for giving those children an opportunity to participate in the joy of victory and the agony of defeat.

Secondly, the child DID NOT GIVE PERMISSION for that photo to be used on this board with that comment posted beneath it. If the child's parents had seen it here, there could be problems with libel for PA, the owner of the board. That post had to go.

Thirdly, children with special needs and challenges deserve our protection and sympathy. There but for the Grace of God, go I. The use of that photo with that caption represented outright CHILD ABUSE.

Whenever, I see people abusing children, I take great offence.

**************************

Now just to try and get this thread back on line, we were talking about the President's Birth Certificate so I won't debate that topic again with anyone.

[ArlJim78]

I didn't see the photo that is being discussed, but I can fill in the blanks reading all the aftermath. What I don't get is how the line is drawn by those who are outraged at the picture. GT very rationally explained how although he did not find it funny and in bad taste, that he was not offended, and for that he is told that he has his head up his ass and is stupid. huh? are things really that clear cut?

so if you were offended then you're a caring enlightened person, if you merely thought it in bad taste and not funny then you are stupid. kind of a fine line there.

[GameTheory]

Hate to tell you this, but that photo is all over the internet and has been around for years -- there are even different versions of it. (Google "arguing on the internet special olympics" if you can stand the horror.) For what it is worth, I don't think anyone was making fun of the handicapped or the special olympics, even the poster who put up the picture. They are NOT the butt of the joke, or I would find it offensive too. They are being used in a rude way to call someone "stupid". (A pejorative which apparently gets the Grits stamp-of-approval, so let's agree to use that from now on.)

It did seem a drastic reaction -- all I did was NOT join the angry mob. (I tend to frown on angry mobs getting ready to crucify someone.)

[Greyfox]

For what it is worth, I don't think anyone was making fun of the handicapped or the special olympics, even the poster who put up the picture. They are NOT the butt of the joke, or I would find it offensive too.

If you don't think that they were being ridiculed, please tell us what was that picture intending to communicate with that caption under it??

[fast4522]

OK, my mistake of poor taste. Sorry.

[GameTheory]

If you don't think that they were being ridiculed, please tell us what was that picture intending to communicate with that caption under it??I thought I just told you so. (I also thought you were done debating.)

The meaning of the picture/caption is clear enough: "You are a fool to argue on the internet. It is a waste of time." That's the ultimate point. So who's is being called a fool? We all are, here arguing in circles about Obama's birth status. Who is calling us a fool? The poster that put up the photo.

So we have a person coming into the thread and saying, "You are all dummies for arguing about this." That is the content of the message boiled down to its essence.

Unfortunately, this person used the ill-advised choice to use that particular photo/caption as the vehicle for this message, which unfairly and tastelessly brings a perfectly innocent challenged person and an admirable organization in the process in order to give his message a little more punch and vivid effect. And of course humor was intended. (Believe it or not, there are forums where that joke goes over well.) In any case, can you see the distinction between the vehicle of the joke (the mentally handicapped) and target of the joke (all of us posting on this thread)? It was essentially an illustrated way of calling us "retarded". (Do you object to that word being used as an insult?) Anyway, as far I can tell, no one here (certainly not me) is saying, "Ha ha! Laugh at the retard!" I realize this is a "hot" issue for you and maybe you can't see this.

By the way, what did you think of the movie comedy "The Ringer", where an able-bodied guy fakes handicap in order to get into the Special Olympics (and win money, I think -- didn't see it)?

[boxcar]

GT, you're one of the better critical thinkers on this forum. Another good post. :ThmbUp:

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

GT, you're one of the better critical thinkers on this forum. Another good post. :ThmbUp:

Boxcar

A good critical thinker would be able to discern that asking someone what is supposed to be seen in a picture is not debating.

Time to move on again to Obama's Birth Certificate.

[GameTheory]

A good critical thinker would be able to discern that asking someone what is supposed to be seen in a picture is not debating.

Time to move on again to Obama's Birth Certificate.I'm taking a lot of cheap shots here. I've yet to call anyone a name or impugn anyone's character. You say, "Let's not debate, back to Obama", and then again ask me a question about this picture issue all the while ignoring all of my questions. That was "back to Obama", was it?

[boxcar]

A good critical thinker would be able to discern that asking someone what is supposed to be seen in a picture is not debating.

Time to move on again to Obama's Birth Certificate.

Mr. Greyfox...with all due respect, GT nailed it perfectly. She told us what she saw in the context of the picture. We, sir, were the objects of the joke, not the kid in the picture. And I agree with that, as I do with her opinion that it was a tasteless thing to do. You, evidently, can't or won't discern the difference between the object of the humor and the vehicle which expressed the humor. But like GT, I can; which is why I wasn't personally offended. Why would or should I be offended at something that wasn't directly or indirectly or explicitly or implicitly aimed at me or at some loved one?

And one other thing: My sensibilities are not easily offended. Life is too short for me to allow other people to manipulate or control my emotions. I like to think that I'm largely the captain of my own ship, instead of allowing others to steer me in the direction they want in order to elicit some desired response from me.

Boxcar

[GameTheory]

Mr. Greyfox...with all due respect, GT nailed it perfectly. She told us what she saw in the context of the picture. We, sir, were the objects of the joke, not the kid in the picture. And I agree with that, as I do with her opinion that it was a tasteless thing to do. She? Her? I'm taking it from all sides -- now I've switched gender!

[boxcar]

She? Her? I'm taking it from all sides -- now I've switched gender!

Oh...you're not a cross-dresser? :D But seriously, I'm sorry 'bout that. For some reason I was under the impression that you were of the fairer sex. Don't ask me why. I have obviously confused you with someone else.

Boxcar

[GameTheory]

Oh...you're not a cross-dresser? :D But seriously, I'm sorry 'bout that. For some reason I was under the impression that you were of the fairer sex. Don't ask me why. I have obviously confused you with someone else. Would it help if I switched my avatar back to Rasheed Wallace instead of my dog?

[hcap]

Fast and I were having a back and forth just before he posted that special olympic crack. It was directed at me and was over the top.

Just before he posted it he posted a photo of Johny Cash vigorously giving the finger-captioned to denigrate my liberal views. As I pointed out in the "Do you know the enemy? Obama doesn't " thread.....
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=928673#post928673
no doubt Cash was a liberal. I assume Fast not being able to argue intelligently, decided to post the special Olympics photo in some silly retaliation. I am glad to see he has apologized.

Unfortunately he still argues now Cash was not a liberal although he marched against the Vietnamese war and was a peace activist.

[Tom]

Holy Animation, Batman!
He sunk so low as to post CARTOONS?
hcap, going to sue for copy write infringement? :lol:

[fast4522]

Bring on the Cartoons! I was aiming it for Hcap and he got that correct. I do feel its retarded to argue on the net and did not mean to offend anyone with a family member who has such in his or her life.

[Greyfox]

Bring on the Cartoons! I was aiming it for Hcap and he got that correct. I do feel its retarded to argue on the net and did not mean to offend anyone with a family member who has such in his or her life.

slow4522 You still don't get it. The comment above is "politically incorrect."
That wasn't my complaint about that ridiculous photo and caption.
However, it is my complaint about the above statements.
Some families have members who have "special needs."

[hcap]

Bring on the Cartoons! I was aiming it for Hcap and he got that correct. I do feel its retarded to argue on the net and did not mean to offend anyone with a family member who has such in his or her life.
If you are aiming for me you need a better pair of glasses

Btw, you are still arguing.

[cj's dad]

you still don't get it do you ??

[fast4522]

Not at all, dumping on you yes, up to speed, ok fast enough to not continue with your fumes of my incorrectness to those who have a family member with such. I stand corrected.

[hcap]

How is it you named yourself Fast?

[boxcar]

How is it you named yourself Fast?

Everything is relative. He probably was comparing himself to all liberals when he thought up the handle.

Boxcar