Pena test results back!

[TimesTheyRAChangin]

I know this was posted elsewhere,but it deserves it's own thread:

http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/6-28-10/test-results-lou-pena-stable.html

[Ray2000]

Apparently the samples were tested for red blood cell enhancing drugs. I hope they tested for stimulants and pain killers also.

I have 2 questions that some of the more knowledgeable people/trainers here might answer.

1. After a race, random urine samples are taken at the paddock. Do they take blood samples also?

2. Is the practice of injecting pig's eyeball fluid into the joints of an arthritic horse still being done or is that too easy to catch?

[Pacingguy]

The NJRC tested for steroids and Pena's horses came back negative. That is all and good. However, I don't think IF he is using something it is steroids. After all, horses he claimed showed dramatic imrpovement the following week. Do steroids have that much of an impact the first week or does it take time?

[Figman]

I don't know the answer to question #2 but in #1, New York takes a urine and a blood sample from each of four horses per race including always the winner. Most times it is the first four finishers unless the favorite is not among them. Then the favorite 's samples are taken and the third OR fourth horse is left out.

[melman]

Hey Figman are they taking samples of Rudy R's horses?? He's the next "great" trainer on the NY t-bred tracks. Makes Pena look like a piker. :)

[Trotman]

This statement about Pena's horses is a joke. The NJRC is running on fumes so where do they have money coming from to do expanded tests, no where. If 2% was withheld from all purses in N.A to set up one National Drug testing agency with uniform testing throughout every lab in the country would be trying to get that business under contract and bye bye cheaters. As the movie Field of Dreams, "If You Build It They Will Come" because the few bad apples in this business very shortly will kill this industry.

[melman]

Lets see now Trotman over at Belmont for the current meeting four trainers are having a higher win% than Pena.

Pletcher
Rodriquez
Mott
Asmussen

All cheating??? The "system" is "working" in NY but not in NJ??

[Trotman]

melman I didn't say anything of the sort testing is not working anywhere IMO. I wouldn't have used Asmussen as an example but then again who really knows if the other three are clean ;)

[melman]

Sorry then Trotman, I got the wrong impression from your statement that the "NJRC was running on fumes" and have no money for expanded tests. Guess then NYRA is in the same boat. Rudy Rudy Rudy is dong great over 35%. Not bad for a guy who just started. I agree it's both a t-bred and an s-bred industry problem.

[sonnyp]

This statement about Pena's horses is a joke. The NJRC is running on fumes so where do they have money coming from to do expanded tests, no where. If 2% was withheld from all purses in N.A to set up one National Drug testing agency with uniform testing throughout every lab in the country would be trying to get that business under contract and bye bye cheaters. As the movie Field of Dreams, "If You Build It They Will Come" because the few bad apples in this business very shortly will kill this industry.

i don't believe these jurisdictions even run the actual tests on all the samples they take for economic reasons, although they would never admit it. here's why i believe this :

i trained at a training center off track. on the same night i raced 2 horses, one in new jersey and one in new york. routinely i would leave written instructions with the vet on a day to day basis as to which horses were racing at which tracks and in which races. he would then make his rounds to "pre-race" my horses, and i'm sure most other trainer's horses that were racing. this was legal since the jurisdictions would provide "withdrawl times" on anti inflamatories, vitamins etc. so as to avoid positives.

there was a variance in what could be used in different jurisdictions even though you heeded the withdrawl times. example: bute and dexamethazone. you could use one in new york and the other in new jersey but not both in both states.

the 2 horses raced and both won. the next morning the vet asked how we did at the meadowlands the night before and i responded both had won but 1 had raced in new york.

turns out, in his haste, he had treated both, in error, as though they were racing in new jersey. the one in new york had to come up positive.
we were so sure, were agreed on how to reimburse the owners for the "lost purse".

we never heard a word. you tell me what happened ?

[Trotman]

melman and sonnyp great posts, now I ask you does this not infuriate all of you It sure does for me. Just go back to 10 or 15 years both T-Breds and Standardbreds these winning percentages we're unheard of and if anyone did standout where is he now. I think it all boils down to when money is the measuring stick of how successful you are then the rules go out the window. Now how is it we get it yet the racing commissions don't, baffles me but don't call me or us stupid.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

I know people are tired of hearing my complain but someone explain to me how a horse (6 yr mare) racing at Raceway Park with her last race 23 or so days ago makes her first start in the Pena Barn at Yonkers and wins while setting the following fractions:

28:3 57:3 1:27:0 1:57:3 with Brennan shutting her down in the stretch. Her sire, A TOUCH OF GENIUS was a claimer at the Meadows when I first started learning about spreadsheets and databases. See attached pp's prior to tonight's start in the 2nd at the hilltop.

[markgoldie]

I know people are tired of hearing my complain but someone explain to me how a horse (6 yr mare) racing at Raceway Park with her last race 23 or so days ago makes her first start in the Pena Barn at Yonkers and wins while setting the following fractions:

28:3 57:3 1:27:0 1:57:3 with Brennan shutting her down in the stretch. Her sire, A TOUCH OF GENIUS was a claimer at the Meadows when I first started learning about spreadsheets and databases. See attached pp's prior to tonight's start in the 2nd at the hilltop.
We understand what you're saying. But maybe this is a poor example. The driver switch alone from Headworth and Cincebox could be worth nearly two seconds. And often a simple change of equipment and scenery is enough to wake a horse up.

That's not to say that Pena is doing some eye-popping reversals. However, I think when he improves a horse drastically from a high % East Coast trainer which has been driven by live drivers, it's more impressive than simply liberating a mare from the Philistines.

Best guess is he's using a fast-clearing, water soluble, synthetic, narcotic-type pain killer which leaves no metabolites.

[pandy]

I thought this was a good example because even though there was a big driver change, this mare is 6 years old and in her entire career the best she could do was 2:00.4, and some of the tracks she has raced on are faster than Yonkers. If you watch the race, she was completely overloaded with trot at every point in the mile and under wraps down the lane.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

If anyone without a video archive at their ADW needs to watch the video, I posted it on my Facebook page. No need to have an account as I set if for all to see. Just click on the link.

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1298928685377 (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1298928685377)


I knew and charted the sire of April Sunshine, A TOUCH OF GENIUS who was a claimer at the Meadows. He did win some races but did not have the speed as the daughter shown last night.

We were always taught that horses needed to race each week to stay sharp and to avoid those that have layoffs. It seems that three week layoffs are the key to breaking three seconds off of a 6 or 7 yr lifetime record. This is the same scenario that resulted in Scare Tactics N after he went to the Big M after racing at Monti in 5 claimers. I feel Pena is behind that one. It is apparent (to me at least) that this is the year of the Form Reversal and we are not to take the past performances or lifetime records in our calculations or handicapping. We need to focus on the "juiced" trainers and bet them on all first time starters in the barn after a layoff...if the racing authorities have not the will nor the money to find the type of drugs he is apparently using, we might as well cash on them....or get out of the business all together.

AM SERIOUSLY THINKING ABOUT SHUTTING DOWN MY SITE AND starting a greyhound handicapping site. At least, the puppies are consistant in their running patterns.

[DeanT]

I thought this was a good example because even though there was a big driver change, this mare is 6 years old and in her entire career the best she could do was 2:00.4, and some of the tracks she has raced on are faster than Yonkers. If you watch the race, she was completely overloaded with trot at every point in the mile and under wraps down the lane.
The driver change is a red herring, imo. The driver before Cincebox is no slouch, and she has been driven by Pete Wrenn in the past, who can make them go fine with wins under 150, some of which were taken off Brennan with no measuarable change either way. She went in about 201 with Pete Wrenn.

[markgoldie]

A few things:

(A) I did not say there was no improvement, but that there are better examples of Pena heroics.

(B) The driver referred to as being no slouch is Mark Headworth, a man who basically washed out of Northfield as a catch driver and we don't need to compare the Dan Charlinos et al. who slug it out at NFLD with Brennan.

(C) The horse had been racing in the W/O handicap at RP, with Trackmaster numbers in the mid-80's with Headworth. I don't have the Trackmaster assessment of the Yonkers race, but I would doubt it could be more than 90. So a 5-point advancement with nothing more than Brennan? Highly possible, if not likely, irrespective of Pena's influence.

(D) Had the horse shipped to Pocono with Kirsten Proctor as trainer and Geo. Napolitano as a driver, we might have expected someting even faster than the 1:57 and change we got. But we'll never know.

(E) As far as harping on breeding, we have seen unknown sires producing Invitational-quality animals, so producing a claiming-type is no big deal.

[DeanT]

(C) The horse had been racing in the W/O handicap at RP, with Trackmaster numbers in the mid-80's with Headworth. I don't have the Trackmaster assessment of the Yonkers race, but I would doubt it could be more than 90. So a 5-point advancement with nothing more than Brennan? Highly possible, if not likely, irrespective of Pena's influence.

If GB is worth 15 or 20 lengths first time on a horse I would love to see the DB which says that. You'll be looking for a long time. If someone can find any driver worth 20 lengths, statistically, and not anecdotally they are a good detective.

I did a driver change study like this about two years ago looking at every race I could get my hands on and I found nothing of the sort. Trainers make horses improve 20 lengths in a week (Ledford, Ernie Adam, Pena guys like that) and drivers are along for the ride.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

People may say I am one of those nut jobs that have consiracy theory on such things as this but a quick search to see what drug's side-effects would increase stamina, permit more exertion and usually takes 3 weeks or less to get to a maximum performance level....

My theory is that these guys are using Labido Enhancement drugs/herbs (like Viagra)...their side effects include an elevated blood pressure, increased stamina, a reduction of lactic acid in the muscles (milkshake effect). they come in both for male and female doses.


Here is the interesting side effect of Viagra
Viagra (sildenafil) belongs to a group of medicines that delay the enzymes called phosphodiesterase from working too quickly.

In this, it works similarly to a milkshake...restricting the production of latic acids, letting horses perform at a higher level before their muscles cramp up....

amazing stuff...Wonder if they start checking for these in the system, will they find it and is it outlawed or permissible under current regulation?

Someone who knows someone in one the east coast commissions might be interested in testing for this with some of their split samples taken earlier this month.

[LottaKash]

Here is the interesting side effect of Viagra
Viagra (sildenafil) belongs to a group of medicines that delay the enzymes called phosphodiesterase from working too quickly.

HaHa, tho, if it lasts more than 4-hours, they should call the Doctor !!....:D

best,

[RaceTrackDaddy]

there are more side effects of that Viagra...this one effects the Red Blood Cells..searched for phosphodiesterase and Viagra and got the following Viagra subsections clinical signiface:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphodiesterase


/snip

Cilostazol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilostazol) (Pletal) inhibits PDE3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDE3). This inhibition allows Red Blood Cells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Blood_Cells) to be more able to bend. This is useful in conditions such as intermittent claudication (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermittent_claudication), as the cells can maneuver through constricted veins and arteries more easily.
snip/

looks more and more like the choice of addtitives to their water pale!

[markgoldie]

People may say I am one of those nut jobs that have consiracy theory on such things as this but a quick search to see what drug's side-effects would increase stamina, permit more exertion and usually takes 3 weeks or less to get to a maximum performance level....

My theory is that these guys are using Labido Enhancement drugs/herbs (like Viagra)...their side effects include an elevated blood pressure, increased stamina, a reduction of lactic acid in the muscles (milkshake effect). they come in both for male and female doses.


Here is the interesting side effect of Viagra
Viagra (sildenafil) belongs to a group of medicines that delay the enzymes called phosphodiesterase from working too quickly.

In this, it works similarly to a milkshake...restricting the production of latic acids, letting horses perform at a higher level before their muscles cramp up....

amazing stuff...Wonder if they start checking for these in the system, will they find it and is it outlawed or permissible under current regulation?

Someone who knows someone in one the east coast commissions might be interested in testing for this with some of their split samples taken earlier this month.
Not sure if they are currently testing for Viagra at the moment. However, I do know that trainers were routinely using it for years in the past... and none of them showed stats like Pena.

[Figman]

New York State has been testing for sildenafil (viagra) for close to ten years and has called nine or ten positives. None however has been called the past three years.

[Canadian]

If GB is worth 15 or 20 lengths first time on a horse I would love to see the DB which says that. You'll be looking for a long time. If someone can find any driver worth 20 lengths, statistically, and not anecdotally they are a good detective.

I did a driver change study like this about two years ago looking at every race I could get my hands on and I found nothing of the sort. Trainers make horses improve 20 lengths in a week (Ledford, Ernie Adam, Pena guys like that) and drivers are along for the ride.

And further to that, when you do see a big change from a catch driver. It's usually because they try to be a bit more agressive, get a better trip, or whatever. That trotter had smoke coming out of her ears. You could have put any person in the grandstand on the bike that night and said... "hold the reins" and you would have had a win.

There are driver changes that cut it. Mike Lachance to Geo Napolitano at Chester for instance. But this isn't one of them.

[markgoldie]

If GB is worth 15 or 20 lengths first time on a horse I would love to see the DB which says that. You'll be looking for a long time. If someone can find any driver worth 20 lengths, statistically, and not anecdotally they are a good detective.

I did a driver change study like this about two years ago looking at every race I could get my hands on and I found nothing of the sort. Trainers make horses improve 20 lengths in a week (Ledford, Ernie Adam, Pena guys like that) and drivers are along for the ride.
Don't know that there is any disagreement here at all. The bottom line is that Pena is and has done some near-impossible turnarounds in a short period of time. So this is an argument without an disagreement. Just one thing and then I'll drop it. Trackmaster numbers take into account the speed of a given oval on a particular card. We can argue their track-to-track accuracy (and we have in the past), but in general, they are pretty close.

Now, if this mare showed an 84 with Headworth at RP, in order to improve the 20 lengths you quoted, the Yonkers performance would have to read 104. As I say, I don't know what TM will assess the 1:57.3 mile at YR, but I'd bet it's not anything near that number. If the mare is back in to go, we can find out easy enough and I'll see if that's the case now.

[Trotman]

You take the top 10 trainers at any track and their all using something and IMO 20 to 25% are the real chemists. One owner at Freehold and Meadowlands who finally packed it in said it was like going to a fight with a knife and the rest had guns, no way could he pick up a cheque. While another Meadowlands trainer has said trying to find the drugs in racing is like trying to find the stink in a septic tank "It's Just Everywhere". And one thing to remember while all this Pena stuff is going on the rest of them are bringing in new enhancers to keep this merry-go-round moving.

[pandy]

Trotman, I doubt that Kleinhans is doping horses. He is having a good year but he has not had the drug positives and suspensions that people like Rucker, Croghan, Fusco, Gelrod, have, nor has he had the success claiming horses. Kleinhans buys well bred horses privately and it's not fair to lump him in with trainers that have been suspended for drugs just because he is doing well this year.

[Trotman]

Pandy your right, I slipped on that. I was reading or say glancing at something which was about Kleinhans while I was typing, maybe the women are right we guys can't multi-task :confused:

[markgoldie]

Pandy's right. Kleinhans is not a technician. Just having good year.