State of Colonial Downs?

[deathandgravity]

One of my favorite tracks. (large fields + turf = nice fun)

Whenever I was on the E. Coast for business, always manage to drop in. But... I know its future was always a little precarious & now they are blacked out on TVG.

Any updates?

Cheers!

[castaway01]

One of my favorite tracks. (large fields + turf = nice fun)

Whenever I was on the E. Coast for business, always manage to drop in. But... I know its future was always a little precarious & now they are blacked out on TVG.

Any updates?

Cheers!

I did a search and saw an article from June 10th about the first 10 days of this meet. Purses are down and field size is down drastically, from 8.9 to 7.4 horses per race. However, their handle was up 5% in the first 10 days of the meet. With most tracks' handle down and many down more than 10%, Colonial seems to be doing a lot better than most. I doubt they ever made much money off TVG wagers anyway as they were hardly in a prominent spot.

[miesque]

I did a search and saw an article from June 10th about the first 10 days of this meet. Purses are down and field size is down drastically, from 8.9 to 7.4 horses per race. However, their handle was up 5% in the first 10 days of the meet. With most tracks' handle down and many down more than 10%, Colonial seems to be doing a lot better than most. I doubt they ever made much money off TVG wagers anyway as they were hardly in a prominent spot.

I attribute the increase primarily to the fact that Colonial Downs was not available on Twinspires last year (and I think Youbet as well) and it is this year.

[InTheRiver68]

If I recall correctly, it was Twin Spires, XpressBet, and both of their parent organizations, CDSN and Magna. The dispute was over source market fees, I think.

- InTheRiver68

[jballscalls]

one thing i've noticed is that they seem to have a huge amount of odds on favorites there than at many other tracks. many of them are 6/5 on the morning lines.

[thespaah]

Colonial's races were seldom shown on TVG and save for the well informed, if it isn't on TV is isn't on the radar.
It is very possible that due the the June heat wave(temps in the mid to upper 90's with heat indicies 105 to 110) which has lasted for nearly three weeks has chased many trainers away. Hence the smaller abg fields.
Hopefully the weather (as forecast) will cool a bit and normalcy will return.

[bisket]

colonial downs was a doomed track from the start. it was originally supposed to be in northern virginia, but somehow ended up south of richmond on 64. that was the kiss of death because it really made it tough on the barns from maryland to race there. if you are driving without traffic its about a 3 hour drive. problem is 64 is a nightmare during the summer months because its the only way to get to virginia beach and outer banks :rolleyes: . so now you are talking about a 4-6 hour drive. some maryland barns do relocate to colonial, but most just drive an hour to delaware park or charles town to run. its a shame the track is in the middle of nowhere in relation to a viable population of horses to fill the races. when judging horses from colonial's everyday races; that happen to run at a different track i'm vary wary of them class wise.

[Grits]

Bisket, you're mistaken on this one, Interstate 64 is not south of Richmond--its dead east. In Virginia, it runs east to west across the entire state, and through Richmond, a bit to the northern side of the city.

One can enter the northern end of the Outer Banks on this road via Wright Memorial Bridge crossing Currituck Sound. One can also enter the Outer Banks taking Interstate 64 East in Carolina, further south on Interstate 95 at exit 138. This comes in at Nagshead crossing the Roanoke Sound on the Mann's Harbor Bridge whereas the Virginia end is north of Corolla.

(Long time stomping grounds.;) )

It is hard to get in and out of Colonial, particularly when going in for the races on a Saturday morning or leaving on a Sunday afternoon when the beach traffic is on the move.

[bisket]

yes i did forget 64 is east and west :blush: . i traveled that corridor extensively for 8 years for an employer. i've vacationed in outer banks a number of times, and worked in virginia beach for weeks at a time. not a good place to try and get around in the summer months even during the week. colonial was originally supposed to be an extension of the "maryland" circuit, but its location nullified that. its a shame because its a nice track, and probably has the best turf courses in the country. i'm sure they could attract even better stables if it was located in a more opportunistic spot. its just a nightmare to ship to if your not stabeled there.

[Grits]

Love the turf. It is fine! The paddock area; not good at all. Do not like the fact there are so few trees on all these acres of property. In this way, its barren like. And that's disappointing, given the plant itself is a great looking facility, particularly from the exterior.

[cj's dad]

Grits - Bisket may have his directions mixed up but CD is a nightmare drive from Baltimore. I've been there several times for the Va. Derby, but no more; the drive is simply intolerable.

[Cardus]

After seeing the thread title, I thought that "Virginia" would suffice.

[trackrat59]

Grits - Bisket may have his directions mixed up but CD is a nightmare drive from Baltimore. I've been there several times for the Va. Derby, but no more; the drive is simply intolerable.

Intolerable is dead on the money. Worst drive to a track ever. I went last year for the first time with my best racing buddy for the VA Derby. We came from the Bethesda, MD area. By the time we got there I was crying-laughing. :D It took 4-EVER! It was such a SHLEP we became punch-drunk by the time we got there.

When we parked I told my buddy we could have made it to Belmont faster. I had a great time at CD but was not looking forward to the drive home. Don't think I'll go back any time soon. I can't imagine anyone shipping down there. :ThmbDown:

[Grits]

Grits - Bisket may have his directions mixed up but CD is a nightmare drive from Baltimore. I've been there several times for the Va. Derby, but no more; the drive is simply intolerable.

Bud, this one's easy for me, when I compare it to coming around DC, then your city and on northward for 4 or 5 more hours, depending on traffic. Or when leaving Queens, going into Manhattan via the LIE and the Midtown tunnel, crossing Park, Madison, turning on Dwyer and heading through the Lincoln tunnel, on to the NJTP, homeward bound in the Monday a.m. commute.:faint:

(I may soon start, like you, taking Southwest, more often! Tiring me, terribly.)

Cardus, fine, fine one liner!!!!:lol:

[thespaah]

colonial downs was a doomed track from the start. it was originally supposed to be in northern virginia, but somehow ended up south of richmond on 64. that was the kiss of death because it really made it tough on the barns from maryland to race there. if you are driving without traffic its about a 3 hour drive. problem is 64 is a nightmare during the summer months because its the only way to get to virginia beach and outer banks :rolleyes: . so now you are talking about a 4-6 hour drive. some maryland barns do relocate to colonial, but most just drive an hour to delaware park or charles town to run. its a shame the track is in the middle of nowhere in relation to a viable population of horses to fill the races. when judging horses from colonial's everyday races; that happen to run at a different track i'm vary wary of them class wise.Doomed?
I think you're being a bit melodramatic.
Cnl has a small grandstand. The plant capacity is about 10,000. I was there in 2006 for the VA Derby. Attendance was 8,000. The place was packed.
Anyway, CNL is a short meet. It has an advantage of the superwide turf course.
Yes it is out in the hinterlands. It's also within spitting distance of VA's largest city and most popular resort area.
Yes it would have been better (maybe) had the track been built in the Nrn VA burbs of DC. Then of course it would have competed driectly with LRL or PIM, whichever is open. Cnl is a niche meet aimed at turf horses. The purses are moderate.
IMO the only drawback to Cnl is the brutally hot and humid weather in June and July.
No place has perfect weather. The closest area to weather perfection is San Diego. And that city already has a track.
Just because Cnl's attendance figs are down doesn't mean the track is doomed. That's ridiculous.
Oh newsflash. Folks traveling south from the Balto-DC area can jump off I95 and head down I295 which bypasses all ther traffic near Richmond.

[cj's dad]

Then of course it would have competed driectly with LRL or PIM, whichever is open. .

Both Pimlico and Laurel Park are closed when CD is running !! Always have been !!

[thespaah]

Both Pimlico and Laurel Park are closed when CD is running !! Always have been !!ok....are the exclamation points( signifying yelling) really necessary? I pay little attention to Maryland racing so why would I know this.
one thing many seem to forget it the amount of real estate needed to construct a racetrack ,especially one with a 1 1/4 mile dirt oval. And back when Cnl was built , DC area property values were sky high. Hiogh enough to perhaps be a budget buster for the developers of Colonial. Perhaps the State ( Or Commonwealth as Virginia likes ot call itself) did not want to allow the track to be built in Northern VA....Who knows.
Was it a mistake to place Cnl where it is today? I don't know.
All I do know is that the track is a nice place, well run, clean and the racing has been pretty good. At least up until now.
The short fields could just be an anomoly. Or the higher purses in DE, PA and WV are finally taking their toll.....

[cj's dad]

ok....are the exclamation points( signifying yelling) really necessary? I pay little attention to Maryland racing so why would I know this.
l.....

They are simply exclamation points nothing more. My blog etiquette tells me THIS IS YELLING !

[thespaah]

They are simply exclamation points nothing more. My blog etiquette tells me THIS IS YELLING !
Ok....Understood....
Have a great day!!!

[The_Knight_Sky]

373 folks made it to the races on Monday June 21st.
Extreme heat was the excuse.

The heatwave must have subsided as 453 contributed
an on-track per capita of $68.65 on yesterday's card (June 28).

I think more folks attend Timonium than they do Colonial.

[thespaah]

373 folks made it to the races on Monday June 21st.
Extreme heat was the excuse.

The heatwave must have subsided as 453 contributed
an on-track per capita of $68.65 on yesterday's card (June 28).

I think more folks attend Timonium than they do Colonial.
I checked weather records for both days..
On 6/21 it was 97 and on 6/28 the high was 102...
I love the races. I can tell you this, when it gets that hot all I think about is air conditioning. I am not going out for any reason, period.

Now, does this tie into the alleged demise of Cnl?...

[thespaah]

BTW, at 3pm it was 97 degrees in Willimasburg. Another day of unbearable heat.
Wanna go for a bike ride?

[The_Knight_Sky]

Now, does this tie into the alleged demise of Cnl?...




While Colonial had grand plans with its near all-turf meet upon its inception,
I think they realized they got the short shrift when it came to the racing dates in DelMarVa circuit.

But they charged on with slogans like: Saratoga of the South!

While that sounds like optimistic advertising, I cannot see how Colonial
thoroughbreds can survive past next year with these anemic numbers.
Blame it on the heat. Blame it on the two turf courses and the confusing
portable rail settings, blame it on the lack of slots, etc.

But something drastic must happen for Colonial Downs to survive.
If that means racing in cooler weather with a boutique meet
with larger purses, and lower takeouts I'd be interested.
But not under the current conditions.
There are simply too many other higher quality racing signals at this time of year.

[castaway01]

While Colonial had grand plans with its near all-turf meet upon its inception,
I think they realized they got the short shrift when it came to the racing dates in DelMarVa circuit.

But they charged on with slogans like: Saratoga of the South!

While that sounds like optimistic advertising, I cannot see how Colonial
thoroughbreds can survive past next year with these anemic numbers.
Blame it on the heat. Blame it on the two turf courses and the confusing
portable rail settings, blame it on the lack of slots, etc.

But something drastic must happen for Colonial Downs to survive.
If that means racing in cooler weather with a boutique meet
with larger purses, and lower takeouts I'd be interested.
But not under the current conditions.
There are simply too many other higher quality racing signals at this time of year.

Handle is up.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Handle is up.


Well they can thank Maggie Wolfendale for that.

But seriously, when a track is scraping the barrel it can't get much worse, right?

How many off-the-turf races http://i48.tinypic.com/2h2f3as.gif have they had for this meet?

[thespaah]

Well they can thank Maggie Wolfendale for that.

But seriously, when a track is scraping the barrel it can't get much worse, right?

How many off-the-turf races http://i48.tinypic.com/2h2f3as.gif have they had for this meet?
I went thru the first half of June's cards. No races off the turf..
Here's the thing that looked odd. I noticed an inordinate number of entered horses scratched by the stewards.
Attendance on weekday cards is running at about 350 per day..
That's bad.
All sources handle is about $500k per day.

[bisket]

i thought colonial was a good idea when it was in the planning stage, but when they chose this place to build the track it was only a matter of time before it came to this. virginia has some farms to to fill some races, but not enough to fill races for a few months. they cut themselves off from the horse population to the north. lets see... the closest track south of colonial would be... tampa downs :D i actually think it makes morse sense to ship a horse from mountaineer to colonial. its a nice place to attend the races though. its just a shame it turned out this way.

[foregoforever]

Colonial Downs pockets 5% of every wager placed by every Virginian throughout the entire year as a result of a silly source market fee law passed by the state. The Virginia horsemen get 5% as well. That leaves about 10% for the ADWs and host tracks. This was the cause of the ADW boycott last year, and the reason why no ADW will go out of their way to promote Colonial, much less show their races on TV. They make much more money on other tracks.

It also means that Colonial's financial health has little to do with the success of their meet. They make more money by not racing. They need only run enough races and distribute enough purses to keep their state-wide source market fee monopoly intact.

The state, and Colonial, consider the law to be a rousing success because it keeps money in the state. They consider the takeout to be their money to distribute as they choose. None of this gets much attention nationally, but it's as good an example of the screwed-up financial model of the sport as you'll find.

[The_Knight_Sky]

It also means that Colonial's financial health has little to do with the success of their meet. They make more money by not racing. They need only run enough races and distribute enough purses to keep their state-wide source market fee monopoly intact.

None of this gets much attention nationally, but it's as good an example of the screwed-up financial model of the sport as you'll find.




Thanks :ThmbUp: for revealing this piece of information.

I think the commonwealth of Virginia and the DelMarVa circuit
would be better off with a two week boutique meet but nothing longer.

And that meet should take place any time on the calendar year
other than June-July-August. That's just for starters.

[foregoforever]

I think the commonwealth of Virginia and the DelMarVa circuit
would be better off with a two week boutique meet but nothing longer.


Colonial's owner pushed for that a few years ago ... an early September two-week boutique meet. The Virginia horsemen, who seem to be well-connected and well-entitled, didn't like the idea because it would mean that foreigners from New York and Kentucky would bring their horses in and win most of the purses. End of story.

[thespaah]

Thanks :ThmbUp: for revealing this piece of information.

I think the commonwealth of Virginia and the DelMarVa circuit
would be better off with a two week boutique meet but nothing longer.

And that meet should take place any time on the calendar year
other than June-July-August. That's just for starters.make it 20 days( like Keeneland) and I agree.

[thespaah]

Colonial's owner pushed for that a few years ago ... an early September two-week boutique meet. The Virginia horsemen, who seem to be well-connected and well-entitled, didn't like the idea because it would mean that foreigners from New York and Kentucky would bring their horses in and win most of the purses. End of story.
Isn' that wonderful.
Once again an example of a short sighted, selfish horsemen's group screwing up the works.
What is it with these guys?

[foregoforever]

Isn' that wonderful.
Once again an example of a short sighted, selfish horsemen's group screwing up the works.
What is it with these guys?

They act in their own interests only, just like everyone else in the business. The New Jersey horsemen had the same concerns about the change at Monmouth. The difference is that NJ used the casino funds to goose up the NJ-bred races and lowest-level races to keep them happy, at least for this year.

The upshot of all of this is that if I sit at home and wager on Belmont via Youbet, most of the money goes to Colonial and the VA horsemen, who've done nothing to deserve it and run all of 50 days of racing all year.

[miesque]

The upshot of all of this is that if I sit at home and wager on Belmont via Youbet, most of the money goes to Colonial and the VA horsemen, who've done nothing to deserve it and run all of 50 days of racing all year.

That is true and quite frankly it infruiates me. :mad: As far as I am concerned Colonial and the VA horsemen have as much right to a piece of my wagering dollar placed at an out of state track as Wal-mart has to a piece of the sale proceeds of the laptop I recently bought at Best Buy.

[thespaah]

The upshot of all of this is that if I sit at home and wager on Belmont via Youbet, most of the money goes to Colonial and the VA horsemen, who've done nothing to deserve it and run all of 50 days of racing all year.

That is true and quite frankly it infruiates me. :mad: As far as I am concerned Colonial and the VA horsemen have as much right to a piece of my wagering dollar placed at an out of state track as Wal-mart has to a piece of the sale proceeds of the laptop I recently bought at Best Buy.
Spot on!!!!!!

[castaway01]

Okay, so four of you hate the track.

Sad to report that wagering is up 13%, one of the few successes in racing. And my friend Rosemary did well there, so good for her as well.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/58028/colonial-all-source-wagering-up-132?source=rss

[WinterTriangle]

I don't know much about COL but I think when I joined twinspires it was blacked out at one point? Then, not shown on TVG which is only racing channel I'm stuck with for now. Add to that lack of high speed out in the boonies where I live, so if I can't watch, and can't wager, I can't play. :) Thus COL just dropped off my radar.

[thespaah]

I don't know much about COL but I think when I joined twinspires it was blacked out at one point? Then, not shown on TVG which is only racing channel I'm stuck with for now. Add to that lack of high speed out in the boonies where I live, so if I can't watch, and can't wager, I can't play. :) Thus COL just dropped off my radar.TVG would drop in a few races from CNL midweek. You seem to be a great candidate for RTN...

[foregoforever]

Okay, so four of you hate the track.

Sad to report that wagering is up 13%, one of the few successes in racing. And my friend Rosemary did well there, so good for her as well.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/58028/colonial-all-source-wagering-up-132?source=rss

Love the track ... it's the state's (and Colonial's) management of racing in Virginia that I don't care for. As a NJ resident, you're not affected. (I know, you've got your own cross to bear up there! :) )

But before declaring Colonial's meet a success, look back a few years. They were handling about $50 million in 2007 and 2008. The Tracknet boycott last year, as a result of the state's silly source market fee law, led to a complete collapse down to $30 million.

It crept back up to $34 million with the boycott resolved ... hardly anything to get excited about compared to 2008. The ADW's aren't promoting the track, and I think it's fallen off many people's radar, as WinterTriangle said.