More bad news for NYRA

[Storm Cadet]

http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-spnyra0805,0,6769417.story


http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-nyra043401628aug04,0,1166756.story

More bad news for NYRA today. First, State Comptroller, Alan Hevisi, is also taken the side of Attorney General, Eliott Spitzer, in criticizing NYRA.

Now it looks as if NYRA is trying to buy its way out of a Federal indictment! This looks worse each day!:eek: :eek: :eek:

[VetScratch]

Put the tracks in the hands of for-profit operators who will be forced to balance the interests of taxpayers, horsemen, horse owners, and horseplayers in order to succeed. It's too bad Wal-Mart doesn't have a facilities management division.

[Tom]

Looks like MEG is postioning itself to step in take over NYRA.
Story today in the Boston Daily News?

[Tom]

Looks like MEG is postioning itself to step in take over NYRA.
Story today in the Boston Daily News?
Makes sense....MEG is an outgrowth of Magna - the giant auto-parts supplier and and it got to be a big fish by swallowing up competition. Take-overs are a daily part of auto-parts companies.
Frankie is a master at the game.

[WINMANWIN]

N.Y.R.A. will probably wiggle out of this jam. Magna, had there shot, and Barry Schwartz doesn't want to lose to Mr. Stronach.
He probably has Bloomy's ear the N.Y.C. mayor, but that may not help. A s the attorney general is on them etc. The franchise FEE is up in 3 or 4 yrs or so, Then companies can bid on it. As most know N.Y.R.A. is a not for profit, corrupt machine :eek: LOL !!! Believe me, This is politics at it's best and
the cash will be a huge factor. Here's how I see it. The vlt's will
be at Aqueduct next year, supposedly early next year. Belmont or Toga will not get them. I suspect in the future that will change.
If N.Y.R.A. can Acquire the New York o.t.b.s and pay the city, x
amount of millions whenever, and use an added % for Education
to the city/state from the profits, The legislature may buy it. IT WORKED IN THE 70'S WITH THE LOTTERY. N.Y.R.A
can then go public and raise cash for the city/state, and pay there debt's to the localities. So, Nyra now has control of the otb's, Here's the catch. The vlt's will be churning at Aque, in time they will get them at Belmont. Belmont is a huge site, That can hold all 13 hotels in Atlantic City. After the vlt's, they will then go slots, then gaming etc. It's political yes, but with the right people backing you in city
government, anything is possible. Frank Stronach doesn't have the clout to take over N.Y.R.A or NYC otb's. BloomBerg, is no Giuliana.
Blommy can buy and sell Mr. Stronach 10,000 times over. Frank has almost the entire industry,with his smart tactics, But his
attempt in N.Y. will fail.

[PaceAdvantage]

Installation of the VLTs by a certain date is an automatic franchise extension for NYRA (by 10 years I believe). Or is that offer off the table?

I hope to God Magna does not take over NY racing. Whatever corruption there has or has not been at NYRA, I think it is NEGLIGIBLE when compared to the good job NYRA has done in putting out its FIRST CLASS product on a day in and day out basis.

Not to mention their intrepid voyage into the world of serious takeout reduction, which only BENEFITS the player. At a time when most racetracks wouldn't touch takeout reduction with a 10 foot pole, NYRA was out there leading the charge and lowering take by record amounts.

As a regular NY player, and a frequent visitor to NYRA racetracks, I just don't see where anyone can really condemn the job they've done over the past number of years.

OK, so a couple of tellers were dipping into the till, or cheating a handful of customers. BIG DEAL. It wasn't an epidemic, or at least they haven't proven it to be yet.

I don't understand why or how NYRA could be in this much trouble over basically NOTHING. Certainly nothing that outweighs all the good they have done over the years, especially when compared to most other racing jurisdictions.


==PA

[Storm Cadet]

All future work on installing the anticipated VLT's at Aqueduct was stopped yesterday. The company said they cannot proceed with the installation with this cloud hanging over NYRA.

They also stated in this mornings NY Newsday, that if NYRA DOES get indicted, not convicted, that they will pull out because of legal contract obligations.

Still no word on what became of yesterday mornings meeting with NYRA trying to buy their way out of indictment!

Stay turned....

[WINMANWIN]

And the saga continues. I read in the daily news, That the govt
halted the project, and the contractor was told to STOP ! I also
read that GOV Pataki is miffed, and believes with the legal problems now with N.Y.R.A. the Economy will be affected.
Looks like politcial hardball is brewing and it should remain
interesting...:D

[VetScratch]

You Could Certainly Call This A Takeout Reduction:
Hevesi's report, based on an audit of NYRA's books in 2000 and 2001, says the organization questionably minimized its revenues to deprive both the state and bettors of millions, the sources said.

Not-for-profit organizations are always hotbeds of corruption when they are entrusted with huge sums of money. Those who are appointed to govern such organizations have no perpetual interests to safeguard, so they steal as fast as they can, whenever they can.

Shut NYRA down and sell the properties to parties who will run things like a legitimate enterprise with perpetual ownership interests. Other tracks can pick up the slack, just as they did for AP after it burned to the ground. A whole new era of New York racing can commence after the mess is straightened out.

[PaceAdvantage]

That's a load of crap. I've just lost the minute amount of respect I had left for you.

You have no clue about what is really going on, what has gone on, and what the people that run NYRA are all about. However, with your giant sized ego and your belief that you alone have all the answers, you insist on commenting.

Allow me to ask you, oh great oracle of knowledge, from which fountain of wisdom did you sip from in order to draw such sweeping conclusions??

NOTHING has been proven, has it?

"Questionably minimized?"

Yeah, that seems like enough evidence for me to call for the tearing down of the New York Racing Association.

Who we gonna get to replace them?? Joe Defrancis?? Or perhaps Magna, the 800lb gorilla sitting in the corner. They've done SO WELL thus far with all the tracks they've purchased, haven't they?

[VetScratch]

"Questionably minimized" is common auditing nomenclature like "questionably overstated." In both cases, there is no question that the books are cooked. Millions cannot be properly accounted for. In the case of Enron, income and assets were overstated. For NYRA, it is a very strong statement when the NY state auditor says NYRA "questionably minimized its revenues to deprive both the state and bettors of millions." The state and bettors have been shortchanged; the only questions concern the legal consequences.

I think George Steinbrenner would be an ideal public service umpire to review proposals submitted by prospective purchasers of the tracks. George knows and loves racing. I believe he would be able to set potential conflicts of interest aside to save New York racing. He is eminently qualified to see past smoke and mirrors to judge proposals based on initial purchase bids, additional investment commitments, plans of operation, and management qualifications. While MAGNA and Churchill are likely ownership candidates, there may well be qualified bids submitted by interests based in England/Europe, the Middle East, or the Pacific Rim.

What is ulimately important is that NY racing becomes privatized.

[Figman]

VetScratch:
George Steinbrenner would most certainly NOT be such a "good umpire!" He is already an active member of the NYRA Board of Trustees that is charged with the responsibility of running this corporation and what is alleged to have happened financially, occurred under his stewardship!

[Storm Cadet]

A better local choice would be the Guiliani-Safer legal firm right here in NY. Guiliani, a former Federal prosecutor, and the firm that he joined do not have ties to NYRA, but obviously are connected to the political structure here in New York.

And aren't they presently involved with giving legal advice to MLB or the NBA right now?

[WINMANWIN]

The main obstacle with new owners other than the state is
the GAMBLING in the future, If N.Y.R.A retains ownership in the future, the state gets there cut for years. In the future, If belmont gets slots and gaming, profits become even larger. The bigger picture, is what will drive these companies to purchase the franchise. But, I think If N.Y.R.A continues to OWN the franchise
and is affiliated with the state, Gambling in the future at all tracks will be achieved eventually. If private owners are involved, It becomes very difficult to get legislature approval for Expanded gambling in THE FUTURE, The legislature will work with a N.Y.R.A, but private companies WILL HAVE TUFFER TIMES, we all know that.

[VetScratch]

Figman,George Steinbrenner would most certainly NOT be such a "good umpire!" He is already an active member of the NYRA Board of Trustees that is charged with the responsibility of running this corporation and what is alleged to have happened financially, occurred under his stewardship!Gee, that's too bad... that Steinbrenner is already tainted. He has always been very willing to appear at and help draw attendance to breeders and owners functions in other states, and his motive has certainly not been the puny honorariums. Furthermore, he really does know and love racing!

If NYRA bureaucrats have managed to pull the wool over Steinbrenner's eyes, then the corruption may be more ominous than published reports. Either that, or George didn't get very involved... I can see him having little or no patience with a hapless board of political appointees. He would make a far better racing czar, with absolute power, than a team player trying to nurture and educate business celebrities and political hacks.

These are the statements that are most alarming:
Albany - The New York Racing Association offered to pay a fine in a civil settlement to avoid a federal indictment on a criminal conspiracy to commit tax fraud, according to a published report.

State Comptroller Alan Hevesi has blasted the already embattled board of trustees of the New York State Racing Association in a report, saying the board has been so lax that his office could not find "adequate evidence" that the trustees even approved the association's budget two years ago, according to sources familiar with the report.The latter statement suggests that many NYRA board members have abstained from becoming active participants.

[VetScratch]

WINMANWIN,
Most other states and communities regulate, and benefit from tax revenues collected from, private gambling/racetrack operators.

If you add casino gambling games and slot machines to the NY mix, the temptations of corruption will escalate. The problem with political stewardships like NYRA is that bad guys always operate under an umbrella of political protection.

[Storm Cadet]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/48811.html

[WINMANWIN]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by VetScratch
[B]WINMANWIN,
Most other states and communities regulate, and benefit from tax revenues collected from, private gambling/racetrack operators.


True, but a NON - PROFIT company like N.Y.R.A was not involved. Deleware was owned by an individual, Prior to the slot legislature.
Dont you realize, If N.Y.R.A. maintains the franchise fee, and gambling takes off at N.Y. tracks
in the future, the state will REAP MORE revenues than a private company will pay the state. I heard an interview this morning on the o.t.b show, and a prominent owner said although we're
disappointed with the legal problems N.Y.R.A is up against, WE WANT N.Y.R.A to continue to operate the tracks, and prosper
with them. He also stated with private ownership, The shareholders, want more money, and the horseman get affected
negatively. They are all for N.Y.R.A.

[VetScratch]

Most states tax gambling through special legislation rather than depend on taxing profits earned by private operators. That's all NY has to do. As proposed, subcontractor MGM Mirage must necessarily manage its affairs so as to reap profits that match or exceed other gambling operations. Where are the benefits for taxpayers or horsemen? For horsemen, everything depends on how the state legislates subsidizing purses from gambling tax revenues.

[WINMANWIN]

Then why do the majority of OWNERS, and trainers want N.Y.R.A.
to retain the FRANCHISE FEE. Now would be the perfect time to
tell the Pataki ADMINISTRATION to demand they get indicted and
start the ball rolling for new OWNERSHIP. Because the owners
know, N.Y.R.A will Look after there interest's, better than the companies you mentioned. Why ruin a money machine for the state for yrs to come, and sell out to a private company. Do you honestly think N.Y. politicians are that naive ??? :eek:

[VetScratch]

When did the owners vote?
When did trainers vote?
When did the horseplayers vote?
What other alternatives to NYRA were on the ballot?

At most slot-casino/racetracks, the horsemens' share is skimmed off the top of slot revenues as part of the state's share. While the state may collect the subsidy for horsemen, the share is legislated and is independent of who owns/manages the slots.

The beauty of slots in other states is that the state and horsemen get their share skimmed off the top just as they do from pari-mutuel wagers via takeout. At most casino/tracks, the slot payout percentage must be publicaly displayed (e.g., 9n.n%). What does NYRA bring to the party with respect to slots?

BTW, since less than 5% of horse owners show an annual profit and most losses are substantial, a given "spokesman" may have an agenda that is tied to special interests other than the welfare of the owner community.

[WINMANWIN]

Hey Vet, We shall see what happens in the future. I
had a good day at the SPA today and know in the future, One Way or another, N.Y.R.A or some other company, will get my
Winnings Sooner or Later. So I CANT Root for the Enemy :)

[VetScratch]

Well, what I posted was a bit idealized in favor of the horses, since lobbyists in most states have managed to complicate matters and dilute subsidies for horsemen.

What I would like to see is maidens running for $100,000 purses after 3,500 slot machines go into AQU. This would make NY a beacon for other racing jurisdictions.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by VetScratch
If NYRA bureaucrats have managed to pull the wool over Steinbrenner's eyes, then the corruption may be more ominous than published reports. Either that, or George didn't get very involved... I can see him having little or no patience with a hapless board of political appointees. He would make a far better racing czar, with absolute power, than a team player trying to nurture and educate business celebrities and political hacks.


Man you have all the answers, don't you? What's that like?

G.S. has been on the NYRA board of trustees for as long as I can remember. Nobody has pulled the wool over anyone's eyes, except perhaps you VS.

[Derek2U]

In the best of worlds: NYRA remains in charge of all NY tracks;
NYRA has bought the OTBs; NY state gets a decent slice of ALL
revenue; NYRA gets Very Sensitive to ALL CUSTOMERS .... phone
and flesh; the SIGNAL of NY races is a very carefully awarded
commodity; the Take has a 12% CAP on any wager; Horsemen
are given more benefits; the backstretch peeps are treated more
kindly. All this & NYRA must keep making money.

Like most public-private things WE MUST have a watchdog. We should TRUST that watchdog 100% & NOT interfere but we should pounce if we are LIED TO or PLayed the Fool. That's it.
And good luck guys. (I really think that its the LIES that disturb
me most in ANY business & I work on Wall St .... hehe)
I overlook bad thinking but can't 4give the LIES.

[WINMANWIN]

If what I read is Correct, No top officials in N.Y.R.A'S Echelon
are under investigation. I read weeks ago, They questioned Meycocks Expense report , and They dont like that N.Y.R.A'S
Former CEO Kenny Noe received a sweet retirement package :rolleyes: Granted, Some N.Y.R.A. policies over the years
were wrong. The teller debacle, ETC. Like Barry Schwartz said,
There's to much at stake, for N.Y.R.A. to get a federal indictment.
If they do, It could very well spell doomsday. I'm no lawyer, but It appears If they get out easy with the fine penalty, It will be
business as usual and VLT'S churning cashola for This money
hungry state. Pataki is already Involved, and Politics Will ultimitely WIN out as usual. After all, The state wants them Bucko's from the VLT'S, for Our great EDUCATION system :eek:

[Storm Cadet]

Both of you should be reminded that there is a huge difference between the NYRA Board of Trustees and the officers of NYRA.

Vet, as you suggested, George Steinbrenner is on the NyRA Board, but that is more ceremonial as most of the people there are horse owners who are also VERY sucessful business types. Most are Wall Street executives. They DO NOT have any say in the day to day operations of NYRA. If they meet maybe once a year as a group (and that's usually social at Saratoga...and it's this week by the way) thats a lot to get all these power people together.

Now the officers...thats where the Federal indictment is aimed at. These are the day to day officials who make policy and carry out the State define guidelines of legislative operations of NYRA.

Please refer to the NYRA site, and all the Board members are listed as well as the officers and their titles.

[VetScratch]

"The New York Racing Association has 35 stakes worth $8,975,000 on the schedule for the 36-day Saratoga Race Course meeting, which begins on July 23. The track broke its own North American record last year with an average total handle of $16,312,846. The average daily purse distribution was $615,711, an increase of 2.8% from $598,769 last year."

SAR is the nation's top track in terms of tradition, ambiance, and handle. However, if you subtract the stakes purses out, the average purse is about $50,000. To the average winning owner, this provides a net of about $24,000 with all the usual monthly bills still outstanding.

Sorry, guys, but that is not the example that racing needs. Because of grossly inflated costs in NY and CA, the economics of racing favor running at DEL or MNR where slots rescued racing from the gallows.

Until 20%-30% of owners stand a chance of at least breaking even, the grass roots of racing will continue to wither. Why don't you measure NYRA's success since 1986 by the annual number of NY-bred foals that have been registered with the NJC? Have registrations been increasing or declining?

Nationwide, that is the only way see what is happening. If Texas hadn't entered the picture during the last decade, the future would look even worse than it does as a consequence of the 1986 tax reform acts.

Given the abuses, does anyone who staunchly defends NYRA have any quantifiable information to suggest that NYRA has a plan to make NY the best economic racing proposition? Has NYRA published credible projections showing that slots will triple purses in NY? Anything short of that fails to reverse a negative trend.

Since slots are purely a no-win proposition for suckers, why visit economic hardship on so many New Yorkers without a guarantee that racing will flourish? If we rob Peter, let's at least pay Paul!

Does anyone have real info about how purses will be funded?

[VetScratch]

PA,

What I know first-hand about Steinbrenner is based on listening to him speak at breeders/owners functions where few came away with the impression that he is a fool!

When awards passed from his hands to ours, we felt that someone who really knows and loves racing passed us the hardware.

[Suff]

NYRA's Purse structure is by Design.


Purses should be top heavy. I'm Talking Major circuits here...not the middlers or smalls,,, although I think they could use the same idea.

The tracks need to provide incentives for Horseman to improve thier horses.

Claiming purses are too high now. When trainers are able to run horses in cheap claimers and pay the bills..what incentive do the have to improve the anilmals? To invest money , time and medical effort improving a horses?

I look at PP's and see a horse running 3 times a month for 2 years and show no workouts (LOL)..... And every race is a Claimer.

If a trainer or owner thinks they can run in NY and make money by running in Claimers..they are wrong..

They know that They MUST get thier horse in shape to beat allowance horses to make more money , and trainers know that if they can improve thier allowance horses to the point they can compete in STAKES races..they will make more money and improve the horses STUD revevnue with wins,,,,and trainers know that if they can inprove thier Stakes horses so that they can compete in Graded races they will make more money and increase the value of the animal.

Sure...a trainer with a barn full of average animals with no money or time to invest in them wants the LOWER END purses to be higher. But NYRA isn't designed like that.

Smaler tracks that need to keep the barns full are designed like that. NYRA is the all-stars....the Big leagues. And things should be very hard at this level. If you don't have the skills to improve horses...You should'nt be able to make money at NYRA...

Pack up and go...Your not good enough.

[VetScratch]

Suff,

The country has no shortage of horses standing at stud. A great many do not even fill their books. If anything, there is an overabundance of studs. This is why syndication windfalls are so rare.

Even with very fashionable pedigree matchups, you get a small percentage of horses with truly superior athletic ability (just as with humans). When the best sires and mares are matched, no one should expect their progeny will include more than about 30% "superior" runners that belong in classified allowances and stakes races during their prime, and very few horses end their careers as allowance/stakes horses. None of our "nationally prominent" sires have produced progeny whose total purse earnings approached the total out-of-pocket cost of ownership for all of their foals.

Claiming races provide most racing secretaries with the easiest method of rounding up competitive fields, and claiming is the most frequent way horses get exchanged. The claiming ladder gives the majority of horses with an extra lease on life and forestalls sending thousands to the killers every year.

You have never seen a Thoroughbred who has started 72 times in two years.

NY purses are NOT really top heavy. This is one aspect of NYRA management that can be applauded. You have a lot of stakes with relatively small purses in comparison to your average non-stake purse. In most states, there is a larger relative gap between stakes purses and average non-stake purses.

Because of high costs, the overwhelming majority of NY owners are taking a beating just like everywhere else.

Your post was nonsense.

[VetScratch]

Suff,

Here's one of my favorite memories from visiting NYC. A boyfriend and I took the subway system from up around Central Park down to the Battery area. In one segment, the cars were crowded like sardine cans when a group of five boys and two girls got on. All were dressed in their colors and were covered with a combination of crude and professional tattoo markings. One of the girls had a two-foot Kingsnake curled around a wooden baton with a filament noose connecting the baton to the King, just behind the head.

Everyone acted as if this gang was invisible, but all strained to distance themselves like campers around a hot fire. When the snake girl noticed me looking at them, she snarled something like, "What you lookin' at?" I said, "That's a real nice Kingsnake you got there. Did you raise him from a baby?" She immediately beamed, straightened up, and told her fierce looking boyfriend, "See, I told ya... it ain't no rat snake!" She came over to me, and we briefly discussed feeding small mice to the snake, and how you could freeze mice in plastic wrap and thaw one out every couple of weeks.

The gang soon got off, and we continued on, but I noticed that folks around us backed off like I was holding a snake. Later, as we left the car, I said quite loudly, "Geez, city folks are sure squeamish about mice... you'd think they'd be used to mice by now!"

=======

I advise you to handle a few horses before you share your knowledge about what is good for them!

:) :) :)