The Filly and Mare Classic Leg 1

[andtheyreoff]

Leg 1 out of 2.

Top 7 in each leg make it into final on July 10.

1 1/4 Miles
Dirt
Monmouth Park

No track bias.
All runners carry 126 pounds.

[kenwoodall2]

I'm in the majority!

[Robert Goren]

Races at Monmouth don't count because they run for purse only there.:rolleyes:

[KinkyFriedman]

Ruffian by 7.

[rastajenk]

Has Beyer, or anyone else using Beyer's pars and charts etc, ever calculated Ruffians figs?

[tucker6]

I know it's everyone's own opinions here, but I must say that anyone voting for Zenyatta over Ruffian at 10 panels on dirt is drinking waaay too much koolaid. Seriously, get a grip on reality. I'd like one rational explanation as to why you believe Zenyatta could catch Ruffian on any day between Monday and Sunday.

Better on dirt? Nope
Knows Monmouth better? Nope
Has a style that matches well with Ruffian? Nope
Has posted consistently faster race times? Nope
Is a 10 panel expert versus Ruffian? Nope

In this hypothetical race, there's way to much stamina and speed up front for a deep closer to handle. Zenyatta would have to use up quite a bit on the front end to be even able to taste the dirt of the leader by the stretch drive. I don't think she'd be running an 11 second last furlong in this race.

[Tom]

How do some get to bet multiple times?

[andymays]

How do some get to bet multiple times?


I couldn't make up my mind so I hit the all button. Sorry, I couldn't resist. :)

[Tom]

D'oh!

:lol:

[joanied]

I really wanted to vote Zenyatta...and there's a few in there that will be awful tough...but I could see Ruffian do her usual crazy act, blaze out there on the lead, and Zenyatta just miss catching her.

So many great names on that list...ya hate to 'bet' on just one :)

[Buckeye]

It won't happen, but if it could-- Zenyatta would win. :) Maybe we should be discussing who is 2nd best all time in the fillie category. Me myself I'd vote for
Go for Wand who met a similar fate. All Zenyatta can do is beat everybody especially Rachel and hope.

[Buckeye]

What happened to Winning Colors and Lady's Secret?

[KirisClown]

What happened to Winning Colors and Lady's Secret?

and St Trinians...

[andtheyreoff]

What happened to Winning Colors and Lady's Secret?


They will be in the second leg prior to the final.

As for St. Trinians, if we include her, we might as well throw in Goodbye Halo, North Sider, and Riboletta.

[Buckeye]

#1 and number 2 both broke their legs. There is no round two. They both had two things, but mostly one thing in common, the will to win at any cost.

[Buckeye]

now to be fair to Z, she has the will to win in spades. Problem is, first of all, you have never beaten anybody. Cigar comes to mind. So first go and get Rachel who "robbed" you last year and next expand your horizons and get on dirt. I heard it's not synthetic.

[Spalding No!]

They will be in the second leg prior to the final.

As for St. Trinians, if we include her, we might as well throw in Goodbye Halo, North Sider, and Riboletta.

I know Kiris was joking, but St. Trinians isn't even remotely as accomplished as any of the 3 mares you mentioned.

I never saw North Sider run, but Riboletta could go toe-to-toe with Zenyatta for sure.

[Dahoss9698]

I know Kiris was joking, but St. Trinians isn't even remotely as accomplished as any of the 3 mares you mentioned.

I never saw North Sider run, but Riboletta could go toe-to-toe with Zenyatta for sure.

Riboletta definitely could and I'm pretty confident Goodbye Halo could as well.

[RockHardTen1985]

They will be in the second leg prior to the final.

As for St. Trinians, if we include her, we might as well throw in Goodbye Halo, North Sider, and Riboletta.

Banshee Breeze?????

[andtheyreoff]

Riboletta definitely could and I'm pretty confident Goodbye Halo could as well.

Riboletta, sure, she was underrated and had speed. But Goodbye Halo? That's crazy.

[Dahoss9698]

Riboletta, sure, she was underrated and had speed. But Goodbye Halo? That's crazy.

Well you were the one that mentioned Goodbye Halo with Riboletta. I tend to think Goodbye Halo was underrated. There wasn't a whole lot separating her and the best in 1988. In 1989, if there was no Bayakoa we might be talking about Goodbye Halo as an all time great.

[the little guy]

I know Kiris was joking, but St. Trinians isn't even remotely as accomplished as any of the 3 mares you mentioned.

I never saw North Sider run, but Riboletta could go toe-to-toe with Zenyatta for sure.

North Sider was the Lukas horse Pat Day fell asleep on in the Shuvee and lost to Ms. Eloise by a nose. Lukas didn't ride him again for about a year.

[Buckeye]

not according to what she did in the 88 Distaff. One of the best of all time won that race. Check your figures. Goodbye Halo? Goodbye. Personal Ensign beat one of the best of all time that day, Winning Colors "Doing what she did in the Derby, free running on the lead." Personal Ensign was truly one the the Greats. Goodbye Halo had her shot and she missed.

[Buckeye]

The filly not in the poll, but who should be is Hot n Nasty, who was beaten by the Queen of all; no disgrace.

Go for Wand isn't here either? Don't tell her she wouldn't listen to you.

[Cratos]

I didn't vote because a list without Personal Ensign, Go for Wand and Shuvee is not complete.

However if I did vote, Ruffian would be my choice from 5f to 1 1/2 miles because she would destroy (that is right, destroy) this field.

[Dahoss9698]

not according to what she did in the 88 Distaff. One of the best of all time won that race. Check your figures. Goodbye Halo? Goodbye. Personal Ensign beat one of the best of all time that day, Winning Colors "Doing what she did in the Derby, free running on the lead." Personal Ensign was truly one the the Greats. Goodbye Halo had her shot and she missed.

I don't know if you are talking to me or not, because you don't seem to have the quote button figured out yet....but Goodbye Halo did beat Winning Colors at Santa Anita. Again, I'm not saying Goodbye Halo is a great at all. But she was pretty good. Take a look at her pp's sometime.

[Buckeye]

you are correct Cratos, Zenyatta has not proven yet she belongs on the same track with any of the all-time-greats.

Susan's Girl was pretty good by the way.

[cj]

I didn't vote because a list without Personal Ensign, Go for Wand and Shuvee is not complete.

However if I did vote, Ruffian would be my choice from 5f to 1 1/2 miles because she would destroy (that is right, destroy) this field.

Perhaps you should have read the part that said this was leg 1 of 2, and that the top seven make the final. I imagine those you mention will be in leg 2.

[Buckeye]

Perhaps you should have read the part that said this was leg 1 of 2, and that the top seven make the final. I imagine those you mention will be in leg 2.

ok, leg one leg 2 leg 9 leg 20 so what? Leg Lady's Secret is not in this either. What a joke.

[cj]

ok, leg one leg 2 leg 9 leg 20 so what? Leg Lady's Secret is not in this either. What a joke.

It isn't my poll, but I'm guessing leg 2 will feature 14 more of the top fillies and mares. He made it clear he was splitting them into two groups, at least clear to me. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

Probably Division would have been a better choice of words than Leg.

[Buckeye]

whatever. The best are not all included in leg XYZ 123.

So in the end it's all Meaningless.

[Buckeye]

looks like "I figured out the quote button."

[Buckeye]

and Here come's Miesque!

[cj]

whatever. The best are not all included in leg XYZ 123.

So in the end it's all Meaningless.

You are making this way harder than it should be. He is taking the top 28 and holding two races, 14 in each. The top 7 from each advance to the final. Each of the first two legs of 14 are going to be missing some of the best horses, he just didn't want to narrow it down to 14. Consider the first two eliminations. I don't think I can explain it any better, maybe someone else can.

[Buckeye]

why leave out the best, what's the purpose of this exercise? 7 14 28 who cares. There are less than that.

[Buckeye]

Shouldn't Eight Belles be included? WTF does it take to get in this race?

[Dahoss9698]

Shouldn't Eight Belles be included? WTF does it take to get in this race?

Eight Belles? She won three stakes races in her unfortunate career and didn't win a grade 1. No, she shouldn't be included.

As for what the poll is all about and why some aren't included. Are you just trying to be difficult? If that's the case, I can appreciate it.

[toussaud]

Fast track I'd go with gamley

sloppy i'm all over inside information.

[andtheyreoff]

You are making this way harder than it should be. He is taking the top 28 and holding two races, 14 in each. The top 7 from each advance to the final. Each of the first two legs of 14 are going to be missing some of the best horses, he just didn't want to narrow it down to 14. Consider the first two eliminations. I don't think I can explain it any better, maybe someone else can.

You nailed it CJ.

Come on, Buckeye. Did you really think I would put Sky Beauty and Dark Mirage over Go For Wand and Lady's Secret? :faint: :bang:

[cj]

why leave out the best, what's the purpose of this exercise? 7 14 28 who cares. There are less than that.

Dude, they aren't left out. They just can't be in both heats. Lay off the bottle man, come on.

Oh wait, I get it, I'm stuck in an episode of The Twilight Zone!

[PaceAdvantage]

whatever. The best are not all included in leg XYZ 123.

So in the end it's all Meaningless.I swear this board needs some good ol' shock & awe...clean out the dead wood...

[PaceAdvantage]

Leg 1 out of 2.

Top 7 in each leg make it into final on July 10.

1 1/4 Miles
Dirt
Monmouth Park

No track bias.
All runners carry 126 pounds.Why did you make the poll one where people can choose more than one...was that your intent?

[andtheyreoff]

Why did you make the poll one where people can choose more than one...was that your intent?

Yes. I had noticed in "The Ultimate Field" poll that many horses had received zero votes, even though some of the voters might have thought that one of the others had a shot. I didn't want a similar scenario to occur here, especially since it could be impossible to narrow it down to seven horses if many get zero.

Great fourm you run, By the way.

[Spalding No!]

Yes. I had noticed in "The Ultimate Field" poll that many horses had received zero votes, even though some of the voters might have thought that one of the others had a shot. I didn't want a similar scenario to occur here, especially since it could be impossible to narrow it down to seven horses if many get zero.

So the results are determined by the actual poll? I thought you ran some sort of computer-simulated race and posted the results.

[TimesTheyRAChangin]

Why did you make the poll one where people can choose more than one...was that your intent?


I thought it was set up to pick ONE horse out of each listing of TWO.
So you make 7 selections,one every 2 lines.
Then again,maybe it is set up to pick any 7 you want?

TTRAC

[andtheyreoff]

Finalists from leg 1:

Ruffian (32)
Zenyatta (21)
Bayakoa (14)
Inside Information (12)
Princess Rooney (7)
Busher (7)
Davona Dale (5)

Whoever gets the most votes gets preferences in the post draw en route to the final.

Big thanks to everyone who voted. Second leg coming up!

[joanied]

So, Ruffian remains the top dog...be interesting to see what happens in the next round...
:)

[Buckeye]

Dude, they aren't left out. They just can't be in both heats. Lay off the bottle man, come on.

Oh wait, I get it, I'm stuck in an episode of The Twilight Zone!

Well sir, at least I hit the ball right out of the park the first Time. There are not 28 best-time-ever anythings. There is only one best way to do anything, do you disagree with that? Great show the Twilight Zone, the best being the one where the girl got surgery to improve her looks but the pigs did not approve.

In my not so humble opinion, Ruffian was the best and neither was she shy about that. There is no need to "hold" fictitious races to determine anything.

[carlonr]

I know it's everyone's own opinions here, but I must say that anyone voting for Zenyatta over Ruffian at 10 panels on dirt is drinking waaay too much koolaid. Seriously, get a grip on reality. I'd like one rational explanation as to why you believe Zenyatta could catch Ruffian on any day between Monday and Sunday.

Better on dirt? Nope
Knows Monmouth better? Nope
Has a style that matches well with Ruffian? Nope
Has posted consistently faster race times? Nope
Is a 10 panel expert versus Ruffian? Nope

In this hypothetical race, there's way to much stamina and speed up front for a deep closer to handle. Zenyatta would have to use up quite a bit on the front end to be even able to taste the dirt of the leader by the stretch drive. I don't think she'd be running an 11 second last furlong in this race.

We have only seen Zenyatta use about 70% of her talent- YES!

[tucker6]

We have only seen Zenyatta use about 70% of her talent- YES!
Sorry, but if the Beyer numbers don't show it, it ain't true. Even you don't believe it, because it wasd a silly post.

[carlonr]

Sorry, but if the Beyer numbers don't show it, it ain't true. Even you don't believe it, because it wasd a silly post.


Andy Beyer himself would disagree. Beyer numbers are not and never were intended to be a sole determining factor. Otherwise the top last out Beyer or the top average Beyer would win every race! We all know that just is not the case. "That's why we run em"