Julie Krone at Del Mar

[rmania]

Talking to a long time friend on opening day, I suggested that Julie Krone was going to have an outstanding meet. And so far she is. But it hasn't been without controversy (at least to me and probably the majority of the jockeys).

Since the start of the meet I've seen no less than 4 races she's won where she was involved in a incident in the stretch which normally would catch the eyes of the stewards. However, there was never a review conducted.

It apparently can to a boiling point yesterday when PVal exploded in rage after the 3rd race. After returning from the race and realizing that the stewards were not going to review the race, he jumped off his mount and ran to the phone to lodge an objection. And he was HOT...

After the decision was made that there would be "no change", he got back on the phone and blasted whoever he was talking to.

Incidently, he was forced to steady his horse (in the turn) in the previous race as Krone went by. I couldn't tell from the angle what happened, but it apparently didn't catch the stewards eyes.

Needless to say, PVal got his revenge in the 4th race as he forced Julie's horse (Solar Echo) to run a blistering 1:08.2 for the first six furlongs of a turf mile. Solar Echo (the odds on fav) went on to win seemingly easily, but the horse was totally spent at the end. My guess is that it's going to be lonnnnnng time before Solar Echo makes it back to the track.

I have nothing against Julie Krone. I think she's a terrific rider. I just think that the "rules of racing" should apply to all.

[Observer]

You sure there aren't sour grapes here??
;)

Just thinking back to a previous post of yours regarding the stewards at Del Mar .. and from the video links you had posted, I couldn't see what the big issues were with their rulings.

But, I do admit, I haven't been following Del Mar much. Maybe PVal let the Seabiscuit scene get to him a little too much .. was PVal yelling into the phone, "She fouled me!" ????
:D

[blind squirrel]

wait a minute,there's no one who likes PVAL
more than me,i always wanted him to make
it back from his many suspensions,however
,when there's any possible way to object a
race,he'll be on the phone.

KRONE,early in her carreer had to ride against
ANGEL CORDERO,she's not intimidated by PVAL.

i saw the races you are talking about,PVAL was
obviously pissed he didn't get the DQ.

so what does he do?the next race he tries to
duel SOLAR ECHO in to the ground.you are right
SOLAR ECHO is going to need a rest after that
race.......if the horse comes back to soon,i'd bet
against..

[SAL]

Well what about Sharpbill, the horse Valenzuela was riding? He spit it out at the 1/8 pole after dueling for 7 furlongs. What do you think Cerin was thinking after the race? That Valenzuela used up his horse just for revenge? I don't think that too many trainers are going to appreciate that behavior, it won't be good for his business.

[sq764]

No one finds the fact that PVal screwed 2 horses in 1:08 and change to be a problem? Should revenge being taken on the track be accepted?

[Shacopate]

I just watched the race on racereplays.com and I didn't see anything worthy of a DQ.

Of course, they only show one angle.

It was the third race, right?

[alysheba88]

I have followed Julie Krone's career from the beginning. Am delighted that she is riding so well if not better than ever before. Which is incredible considering all her injuries and adversity.

I have never heard or read anything before about her being a "dirty rider". Ever. If anything she got the worst of it from other riders earlier in her career. I know she had run ins with Chop Chop and Joe Bravo in her earlier days, but that had to do with them trying to intimidate her.

[rmania]

Originally posted by alysheba88 (MW)
I have never heard or read anything before about her being a "dirty rider". Ever.
And no one is accusing her now...

My comments were meant to suggest that she may be receiving preferential treatment from the stewards.

[sq764]

Do you really think this would fly at one of the primiere meets in the country? I don't think it would be tolerated.

[rmania]

I don't know, maybe I'm just being too critical. But interference in the stretch is interference in the stretch.

Here's JKs latest ride. She's on #3 (the 6-5 fav).

http://www.dmtc.com/live/replays/asx/030806-05.asx

Is it just me....:confused:

[Observer]

From what I've previously seen .. I can't say you're being too critical ... but I can say I haven't viewed the other replays in the same way you have .. from the angles I saw, I thought the judgements were fair. As for this current one .. I can't see it on this computer I'm working on .. but I am curious as to what happened this time .. stay tuned!
:D

[Tom]

I don't think threre was anthing there worthy of a foul. No contact and the rider of the "fouled" horse did not appear to have any reaction to it. More of an optical illusioin, I'd say.
If you don't like that ride, you would hate Finger Lakes.

[sq764]

Or Mountaineer...

Monday night I was watching them and saw a horse almost knock the inside horse over the rail. I was expecting at least a lengthy inquiry, but no objection, inquiry or even mention of it.

That was time to grab another beer...

[kenwoodall]

Since when does a DQ get awarded because a horse "went by"?
If PVal was the only one who claimed to see anything, maybe he is taking acting leesons in Hollywood!
Krone seems to like to come out with her horses, and Del Mar has has a few slow rails this meet. Maybe she learned the track well! Check the Equibase workouts to see how fast the track was that day. I think fast times on slow tracks are much harder on horses than fast times on fast tracks and Del Mar most days has been real fast!!

[kenwoodall]

chart says 2 umps. 4th both lost 3 1/2 lengths in the stretch, both tired.

[Observer]

Thought it was interesting to note that PVal took the day off Wednesday, when scheduled for 8 mounts, according to DRF. According to a quote in the article that appears in the paper dated for Friday, Aug. 8, PVal "wanted to spend time with his wife." The story also said a Wednesday drug test came back clean.

[rmania]

Originally posted by Observer
Thought it was interesting to note that PVal took the day off Wednesday, when scheduled for 8 mounts, according to DRF. According to a quote in the article that appears in the paper dated for Friday, Aug. 8, PVal "wanted to spend time with his wife." The story also said a Wednesday drug test came back clean.
Maybe he needed some time to cool off.

On the other hand, many of the top jocks regard the Del Mar meet as "vacation time". And with PVal accepting sooo many mounts, he probably deserved a day off. It's not like he needs the money.:)

Another thing.... I didn't mean to suggest in any of my posts that JK's mounts should have been DQ'd. I was just seeing a lot of things (as a spectator) that probably would have been reviewed by the stewards had it involved the likes of Kent D or even PVal.

Believe it or not, the presence of JK at Del Mar is a novelty. Most in attendance don't (or at least didn't) know who she was/is. Her success to date has caused a lot of excitment with the female fans and I can only imagin the fallout that would result from her being disqualified for any reason.:rolleyes:

[Observer]

It's a little strange that a rider sitting tied for 2nd in the standings, through Monday, would take a day off like that. With no Del Mar racing Tuesday, through Wednesday's races, he has now dropped to fourth, in what is a very tight jockey race. That's a lot of lost opportunity, even if it was just one day.

Wonder if he stays on his 7 mounts today [Thursday]??

[Jaguar]

These guys are so banged up, and as they get older the heavy schedule doesn't allow enough recovery time.

Probably some of the older jocks could ride at a high competitive level if they rode only 2 days per week

One of the sad things in life is that athletics is for the young.

All the Best,

Jaguar

[Lefty]

I think PVal does need the money. A couple of yrs ago it was reported he was over a million in debt.

[rmania]

Originally posted by Lefty
I think PVal does need the money. A couple of yrs ago it was reported he was over a million in debt. Just this year alone he's already banked $900K and there's still four months left. That's a pretty decent annual income.

As long as it's not going up his nose I'd say he's in decent shape and I'd guess that he's not getting any calls from his creditors.:)

[Observer]

Originally posted by Jaguar
These guys are so banged up, and as they get older the heavy schedule doesn't allow enough recovery time.

Probably some of the older jocks could ride at a high competitive level if they rode only 2 days per week

One of the sad things in life is that athletics is for the young.

All the Best,

Jaguar

No doubt racing takes a toll on riders .. however, if you look at sports in general .. I think you've got some pretty amazing riders who have competing successfully at ages that would be unheard of in any other game.

Laffit Pincay would still be riding strong had it not been for the spill in March .. and when he announced his retirement, he was 56!

Bill Shoemaker won the Kentucky Derby aboard Ferdinand at age 54!

Eddie Delahoussaye retired at 52!

Chris McCarron retired at 47!

What other sport can older athletes compete successfully against those half their age???

Most riders don't get really good until they're in their 30s and 40s. In any other sport, they'd probably be long gone by that time, or at least on their way out.

Jerry Bailey will be 46 this year.

Gary Stevens is 40.

Mike Smith is 38.

Edgar Prado is 36.

John Velazquez will be 32.

And these guys are not just riding 2-a-day. (Okay, Stevens has come and gone and come back to the game .. but he's still been competitive.)

[Observer]

Correction, these guys are riding at the top levels, and are not 2-day-a-week riders.

And one more addition:

Julie Krone turned 40 last month.

[VetScratch]

Rmania,

About PVal:
Just this year alone he's already banked $900K and there's still four months left. That's a pretty decent annual income.How do you figure $900K. Surely, by banked, you don't mean net income after expenses, right? After expenses and estimated tax payments, no jockey has banked $900K quite yet.

[rmania]

Originally posted by VetScratch
Rmania,

About PVal:
How do you figure $900K. Surely, by banked, you don't mean net income after expenses, right? After expenses and estimated tax payments, no jockey has banked $900K quite yet.
Net income only.

Still, that ain't hay.......

[VetScratch]

Even 900K before taxes is a bit high.

PVal's mounts have won $9-million but he got 10% only on the winners, with much lesser amounts for other rides that earned purse money. Some rides are not reflected in purse earnings, but then his agent takes 25%-30% of his gross, and when you add in other expenses, I doubt that he has netted 500K before taxes.

With Pval, we are talking about the 4th ranked jockey in current NTRA standings.

What seems ridiculous is that LeBraun James has already signed contracts giving him more in upfront signing bonuses (from the Cavaliers, Nike, and a trading card company) than the net taxable earnings of our current TOP-25 jockeys, Bailey through Douglas.

[VetScratch]

I know it's off-topic in this Krone thread, but since PVal's status and earnings came up, let's look at Michael Gill's owner stats as of today (NTRA):

Starts 1218
Wins 253
Places 193
Shows 160
Purses $5,505,916

Especially since he has been denied on-track stalls in so many places, and has had to train many starters off-track, there is no doubt that this leading owner has lost several million year-to-date.

I think racing owes this man a fair chance. The fact that his claims ruffle feathers is a poor excuse for denying stalls to someone who has put millions more into racing than he has taken out.

[sq764]

Wait, so you are saying that jockeys gets a lesser percentage of the purse money they win for 2nd, 3rd, etc.. than they do for winning?

Its a declining scale based on where they finish?

[VetScratch]

Sq764,

Yes, what gets negotiated will vary from circuit-to-circuit, but there is generally a very small incentive to finish 2nd or 3rd, and practically no incentive below that. Basic fees to take a mount also vary, but usually in proportion to expense demographics, and making a good living all boils down to winning.

Here's an approximate but fairly representative example of where a $10,000 purse goes at cheap tracks where $10,000 is a BIG PURSE:

Total Win Share: $6,000
Trainer: 600 (10%)
Jockey: 600 (10%)
Owner: 4800 (80%)

Total Place Share: $2,000
Trainer: 200 (10%, usually)
Jockey: 90
Owner: 1,710

Total Show Share: $1,100
Trainer: 110 (10%, usually)
Jockey: 60
Owner: 930

...down thru 3% for 5th place...

Purse Money Also-Rans: $0 purse earnings
Jockey: $35 (basic fee for taking mount)
Trainer: $0
Owner: $0

For each horse, owners must also pay trainers their day rates, and must pay many other expenses as well.

Big stakes races sometimes pay jockeys better than this by qualifying for percentages when purses exceed a negotiated amount.

[VetScratch]

Big stakes races sometimes pay jockeys better than this by qualifying for percentages when purses exceed a negotiated amount.I ran out of time... what I mean is that place and show jockeys may get paid a little better in stakes races.

[VetScratch]

Here is some interesting jockey information released by the Jockeys' Guild in 2002:

In the United States, the average jockey makes less than $40,000 before expenses. Most jockeys employ an agent and a valet. Agents receive 25 percent to 30 percent of a jockey's earnings, and valets receive 5 percent to 10 percent. This means most jockeys pay out 30 percent to 40 percent of their earnings before taxes.

[sq764]

Well my first question would be why the hell people making less than $40K a year would use a valet.

That alone tells me they are making a nice chunk of money betting on the side

[VetScratch]

My goodness, doesn't everyone have maids and valets? :)

I think the Guild may have cited an accurate arithmetic average if all struggling "wannabes" who get a few apprentice rides in the bushes are counted, including maybe quarter-horses, but I "know" the average thoroughbred journeyman does a little better than 40K gross, 25K net.

Even on small-track circuits, most that I know make 36K to 100K net (and are generally broke all the time).

Still, the jockey stats listed by DRF in the ARM make it clear that a few make big money, but the majority don't... when you do the math on their purse numbers and figure in all expenses.

[VetScratch]

In the local dive frequented by backsiders, I watched two inebriated jockeys get into a Friday night debate over who could handle "hot" food the best. This was before a Saturday card at a middle-level-track where each had mounts in allowances and a stake.

For a $100 wager, they spooned down the house-specialty "homemade hot salsa" until one finally quit and both were ill... both took off all their mounts the next day.