ESPN's Amanda Duckworth: A Tale of Two Mares!

[andymays]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=duckworth_amanda&id=5295105

Excerpt:

The other day racing was blessed to see a truly great mare win yet again. And I am not talking about Zenyatta.

The prestigious Royal Ascot meeting in England was kicked off in grand style when Goldikova took the Group 1 Queen Anne Stakes over the boys. Even before her victory, it was a well-cemented belief that she is the best miler of either gender in the world right now. She has won nine Grade/Group 1 contests, and six of those have come against her male counterparts.

In her last three starts alone, Goldikova has raced in California, France, and England. Each time has been against the colts, and each time she has emerged victorious. In all she has won 12 of her 17 career starts and has only been off the board once. Her ultimate goal is to win her third consecutive Breeders' Cup Mile, which would be a record in any division of the event.

Although she cannot boast a perfect record like Zenyatta, Goldikova is a champion through and through. Her losses don't matter when considering the races she has won and the competition she has run against.

Excerpt:

Whether you cheer for Zenyatta, Goldikova, or a random claimer, a victory is something to be enjoyed and savored. This season, Zenyatta has been aimed at preserving perfection by facing easier competition and Goldikova for ultimate performance . Is one better than the other? Like greatness, that is a purely subjective thing.

But for me, Goldikova's career has certainly been more satisfying.

[cj]

It is almost like she has been reading the rational people on this forum and summed it up nicely.

[andymays]

It is almost like she has been reading the rational people on this forum and summed it up nicely.

She probably has been reading the stuff here.

It seems to be politically incorrect to bring this stuff up but I'm glad someone is besides some of us.

Byk should read this article and use it for some more ammunition. ;)

[Tom]

Ammunition for what?
You choose to think what you think and you want to shoot anyone who disagrees with you? Myself, I never heard of this writer, and could give a shit what her thoughts are on any topic. I prefer to not act like a baby about it like Byk did. I prefer to enjoy them both while I can. Frankly, I don't care what anyone thinks about either one of them.....the only opinion that matters to me is mine. BTW, what is Goldvika's dirt record? That is all that matters, you know. Grass racing is subordinate, so what's the big deal about her? :rolleyes: Has she ever posted a 120 Beyer figure?

[andymays]

Ammunition for what?

You choose to think what you think and you want to shoot anyone who disagrees with you? Myself, I never heard of this writer, and could give a shit what her thoughts are on any topic. I prefer to not act like a baby about it like Byk did. I prefer to enjoy them both while I can. Frankly, I don't care what anyone thinks about either one of them.....the only opinion that matters to me is mine. BTW, what is Goldvika's dirt record? That is all that matters, you know. Grass racing is subordinate, so what's the big deal about her? :rolleyes: Has she ever posted a 120 Beyer figure?


Ammunition to defend himself because Paulick and people like yourself are already going after him.. Nobody is talking about shooting anybody. Just about everyone agrees that Zenyatta is a great mare they just want to see her do it against the best on dirt. That's all.

I think everyone forgets that Byk was defending Zenyatta and her camp last summer.

Maybe he came on a little strong in the interview but it does't warrant the hate being directed at him by some camps.

[Tom]

I am going after him for HIS conduct, not Zenyatta's performance. Can you understand that not everything is about poly tracks of the horse?

[andymays]

I am going after him for HIS conduct, not Zenyatta's performance. Can you understand that not everything is about poly tracks of the horse?


The irony here is that the connections for Zenyatta have been the most vocal critics of sythetics of anyone. John Shirreffs was quoted as saying "he hated synthetic surfaces, yet most of the people that support Zenyatta as the best ever love synthetic surfaces.

I have great respect for the connections and the role they play in racing. I think they're making a big mistake by going for a perfect record instead of putting on a show against the best of dirt. In the final analysis it's their mare but I hope they take a shot in New York or in the Classic at Churchill.

Duckworth has written a provocative article that will keep the fires burning and that's a good thing. :ThmbUp:

[joanied]

Is the Byk interveiw on line somewhere? If so, can someone post a link?

Goldikova is a pure champion mare...no doubt about it...and a lock as the best TURF miler in the World (and IMO, will go down as one of the great race mares of all time, regardless that she runs only on turf)...but can she do the same on dirt...that is the question, and it will never be answered.
I would have to say that right now, QR is probably the best Miler in the world...IMO, he could probably run just as well on grass...
it sure makes you wonder if Goldy could beat QR on dirt...now that would be a hell of a race. Unless Pletcher is 110% certian QR can get the Classic distance on BC Day, they might consider running him in the Mile...he'd win that and Goldikova, IMO, will take her 3rd Turf Mile at CD.

My feelings for Zenny are like most folks...I love her, don't want her to ever get beat, but just one time before BC Classic, I would love to see her beat the boys again...just once.

[PaceAdvantage]

BTW, what is Goldvika's dirt record? That is all that matters, you know. Grass racing is subordinate, so what's the big deal about her? :rolleyes: Has she ever posted a 120 Beyer figure?Actually, in Europe where Goldikova primarily races, grass is king. And as far as Beyers go, I do believe Goldikova's top Beyer (mind you, there are no Beyers for the majority of her races other than the Breeders' Cup) is higher than Zenyatta's career best Beyer, but I could be wrong...can someone confirm?

Hey, you asked.

[PaceAdvantage]

Is the Byk interveiw on line somewhere? If so, can someone post a link?See this thread:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71849

[DeanT]

This is probably the best you are gonna get in looking at Goldikova and other horses.

http://www.timeform.com/display_articles.asp?page=Global_Rankings.asp

Andy,

You misinterpret the criticism of many like me of the Byk thing. I like opinion, but he was a host speaking of opinion of a guest. I liked Bill O'Reilly going after Barney Frank because Frank would not answer a question. That was good television. He never gets heated with people for an opinion. Byk did the opposite and it was unprofessional for a host; that is what I am critical of and I don'tr care where he stands on the issue of Zenyatta. He could have been speaking of a horse in the 5th at Belmont.

[Spalding No!]

And as far as Beyers go, I do believe Goldikova's top Beyer (mind you, there are no Beyers for the majority of her races other than the Breeders' Cup) is higher than Zenyatta's career best Beyer, but I could be wrong...can someone confirm?


Her two BC wins received 107 and 109 BSF respectively.

[Tom]

Actually, in Europe where Goldikova primarily races, grass is king. And as far as Beyers go, I do believe Goldikova's top Beyer (mind you, there are no Beyers for the majority of her races other than the Breeders' Cup) is higher than Zenyatta's career best Beyer, but I could be wrong...can someone confirm?

Hey, you asked.

Yes, but just being hard to get along with! ;)

[andymays]

This is probably the best you are gonna get in looking at Goldikova and other horses.

http://www.timeform.com/display_articles.asp?page=Global_Rankings.asp

Andy,

You misinterpret the criticism of many like me of the Byk thing. I like opinion, but he was a host speaking of opinion of a guest. I liked Bill O'Reilly going after Barney Frank because Frank would not answer a question. That was good television. He never gets heated with people for an opinion. Byk did the opposite and it was unprofessional for a host; that is what I am critical of and I don'tr care where he stands on the issue of Zenyatta. He could have been speaking of a horse in the 5th at Belmont.


I think that if you didn't know better and checked out the show for the first time you might come to the conclusion that Davidowitz is an angel and Byk is the Devil. Knowing a little about both I can tell you that Davidowitz is normally the one that goes off and Byk just beat him to it.

Both guys are good for the sport and I enjoy hearing both of their opinions.

One mistake I think we all make including me is to take one incident and make a judgement on someone forever instead of judging them on their whole body of work.

Good Stuff anyway you slice it in my book. :ThmbUp:

By the way I think Amanda wrote a good article here and thought outside the box. Good for her. :ThmbUp:

[Cardus]

Goldikova has accomplished much more than has Zenyatta.

[andymays]

Goldikova has accomplished much more than has Zenyatta.

Outrageous!

Blasphemy I tell you! ;) :D

[Phantombridgejumpe]

everyone knows races in Europe don't count...

[SoCalCircuit]

Taking the easy road to protect a perfect record? While I think we can all agree that her competition isnt the greatest, 11 Grade one wins is still 11 Grade one wins. And with horses running vigorous campaigns getting injured left and right, I think we should be thanking Sheriffs and the Mosses for giving this older filly her due time between races and not shipping her like crazy, or else she might not be running anymore and we'd have to find another topic to create 334343598 different threads about. If she was originally purchased into the NYRA circuit and never shipped out of NY this wouldnt be a problem, its not the horse's fault she was purchased and put in the cal circuit. Give me a break. For an older mare to run in four G1s during the year, culminating in the Breeders Cup World Championships against the BEST colts and fillies from all over the world, and do that back to back years, that's pretty f-ing impressive.

[46zilzal]

everyone knows races in Europe don't count...
the last domain of stamina, it sure does

[Phantombridgejumpe]

all races count.

The synthetic races count, races overseas count, races on turf count.

I happen to be a fan of the 'undefeated'.

Who would I rank as the #1 football team ever? The '72 Dolphins. Does that mean I think they are the best? I don't think it matters what I think - I think I'd rank them first.

Of all horses I've seen from the gender I would currently rank Zenyatta #1.

And this from someone who would have voted Rachel HOY last year (or at minimum split the vote)

[Spalding No!]

Give me a break. For an older mare to run in four G1s during the year, culminating in the Breeders Cup World Championships against the BEST colts and fillies from all over the world, and do that back to back years, that's pretty f-ing impressive.

What does that say about Goldikova the last 2 years?

[46zilzal]

Of all horses I've seen from the gender I would currently rank Zenyatta #1.


I find it a tie between Miesque and the Z gal currently

[DeanT]

I find it a tie between Miesque and the Z gal currently
Some nice numbers on Miesque for fig folks that's for sure :)

http://farewelltokings.com/2009/11/historical-breeders-cup-beyers/

[SoCalCircuit]

What does that say about Goldikova the last 2 years?

That she is fortunate to be a turf horse dramatically decreasing the chances of breaking down

[ArlJim78]

Goldikova will go down as one of the greats, I'm pretty certain of that. Especially if she three peats in the BC. To me she is above anything running over here.

I find it amusing though that this author, like many on here, focus the charges of ducking the tough races on Zenyatta, and give a pass to Rachel Alexandra. Zenyatta was life and death to get up in time to win her race this week against horses everyone are calling tomato cans.

On the other hand, Rachel Alexandra, reigning horse of the year runs against an equally subpar group of females, and romps home in a cantor, while ducking a legit field of G1 males on the very same card. and everyone is saying that based on time she would have won the big race.

so if you guys demanding that horses run in the toughest races truly believe Zenyatta is overrated and a synthetic wonder only, why do you disagree with them sticking mostly to the California synthetic races against females? It would seem that according to your assessment of Zenyatta that this is exactly where she should be running, and that it would be folly to consider anything greater than that.

and if Rachel Alexandra is the best dirt horse in training, or nearly the best, why aren't you ripping the connections for running her in the Fleur de Lis and not the Stephen Foster?

[Spalding No!]

That she is fortunate to be a turf horse dramatically decreasing the chances of breaking down

Ah, yet another one of the many "unseen" hardships that prove Zenyatta is great.

[Java Gold@TFT]

Head rode Miesque and trains Goldikova and has said that he thinks Goldy would beat Miesque. I don't particularly agree but he has been on the back of both so I'll go with his opinion. The race of the BC era would be the mile with Goldikova, Miesque and Lure all in the gate.

[Spalding No!]

so if you guys demanding that horses run in the toughest races truly believe Zenyatta is overrated and a synthetic wonder only, why do you disagree with them sticking mostly to the California synthetic races against females? It would seem that according to your assessment of Zenyatta that this is exactly where she should be running, and that it would be folly to consider anything greater than that.

Here's your folly:

Most of the "haters" on here think Zenyatta is potentially a great horse, and further still, I would bet that most of those think that Zenyatta is better than Rachel Alexandra (at least in their current form). So, no, they don't agree with her "sticking" in the CA distaff division.

Let me turn it around on you now, if you believe she's great, why don't you want to see her in the so-called toughest races? Wouldn't they be that much more "tougher" for the other horses, if she were to enter?

[SoCalCircuit]

In defense of Zenyatta (and i'm not on the Z bandwagon, nor the RA, I don't play 'favorites', I bet the races to use raw science and observations to make money and thats it), but in Z's defense, I think you would all be surprised as to how well some of the so called tomato cans she runs against would perform if they were shipped eastward and competed. I think St. Trinians will be very good should they decide to ship her. Life is Sweet already proved very talented winning the distaff. Zardana (who is typically only good for 3rd-6th against Z) proved good, beating rachel. It is a shame that many of these socal horses form a 'niche' because of their geographic isolation so we really cant develop a barometer of how good they truly are.

[Spalding No!]

In defense of Zenyatta (and i'm not on the Z bandwagon, nor the RA, I don't play 'favorites', I bet the races to use raw science and observations to make money and thats it), but in Z's defense, I think you would all be surprised as to how well some of the so called tomato cans she runs against would perform if they were shipped eastward and competed. I think St. Trinians will be very good should they decide to ship her. Life is Sweet already proved very talented winning the distaff. Zardana (who is typically only good for 3rd-6th against Z) proved good, beating rachel. It is a shame that many of these socal horses form a 'niche' because of their geographic isolation so we really cant develop a barometer of how good they truly are.

Life Is Sweet was only modestly successful in NY, in fact she was a transplant to CA.

Zardana faced Zenyatta for the first time last Sunday. Thus, she has never been worse than 3rd to her.

Made For Magic, twice beaten by Zenyatta, ran in the Fleur De Lis. She was last.

[BluegrassProf]

...and if Rachel Alexandra is the best dirt horse in training, or nearly the best, why aren't you ripping the connections for running her in the Fleur de Lis and not the Stephen Foster?Keep in mind, not only has no one said anything like this here, yours is the very first mention of Rachel Alexandra in two pages-worth of discussion.

Gotta be some sort of record.

[andymays]

Goldikova has accomplished much more than has Zenyatta.


That will get you in trouble around here. ;)

She certainly has had a fearless campaign hasn't she?

[letswastemoney]

I'd rank Ouija Board ahead of Zenyatta! Those connections were not afraid of anyone.

[andymays]

I'd rank Ouji Board ahead of Zenyatta! Those connections were not afraid of anyone.

The hell you say! ;)


How many of you are going disturb the beehive before they go nuts and attack? :D

[PaceAdvantage]

Her two BC wins received 107 and 109 BSF respectively.Then I stand corrected. Thanks for that.

[andymays]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=duckworth_amanda&id=5295105

Excerpt:

The other day racing was blessed to see a truly great mare win yet again. And I am not talking about Zenyatta.

The prestigious Royal Ascot meeting in England was kicked off in grand style when Goldikova took the Group 1 Queen Anne Stakes over the boys. Even before her victory, it was a well-cemented belief that she is the best miler of either gender in the world right now. She has won nine Grade/Group 1 contests, and six of those have come against her male counterparts.

In her last three starts alone, Goldikova has raced in California, France, and England. Each time has been against the colts, and each time she has emerged victorious. In all she has won 12 of her 17 career starts and has only been off the board once. Her ultimate goal is to win her third consecutive Breeders' Cup Mile, which would be a record in any division of the event.

Although she cannot boast a perfect record like Zenyatta, Goldikova is a champion through and through. Her losses don't matter when considering the races she has won and the competition she has run against.

Excerpt:

Whether you cheer for Zenyatta, Goldikova, or a random claimer, a victory is something to be enjoyed and savored. This season, Zenyatta has been aimed at preserving perfection by facing easier competition and Goldikova for ultimate performance . Is one better than the other? Like greatness, that is a purely subjective thing.

But for me, Goldikova's career has certainly been more satisfying.


I think Amanda Duckworth is looking pretty good right about now.

[Hedevar]

I agree. She knows racing and happens to work for ESPN. She used to write for the Bloodhorse. She has some interesting articles archived on the Bloodhorse site.

[horses721]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=duckworth_amanda&id=5295105

Excerpt:

The other day racing was blessed to see a truly great mare win yet again. And I am not talking about Zenyatta.

The prestigious Royal Ascot meeting in England was kicked off in grand style when Goldikova took the Group 1 Queen Anne Stakes over the boys. Even before her victory, it was a well-cemented belief that she is the best miler of either gender in the world right now. She has won nine Grade/Group 1 contests, and six of those have come against her male counterparts.

In her last three starts alone, Goldikova has raced in California, France, and England. Each time has been against the colts, and each time she has emerged victorious. In all she has won 12 of her 17 career starts and has only been off the board once. Her ultimate goal is to win her third consecutive Breeders' Cup Mile, which would be a record in any division of the event.

Although she cannot boast a perfect record like Zenyatta, Goldikova is a champion through and through. Her losses don't matter when considering the races she has won and the competition she has run against.

Excerpt:

Whether you cheer for Zenyatta, Goldikova, or a random claimer, a victory is something to be enjoyed and savored. This season, Zenyatta has been aimed at preserving perfection by facing easier competition and Goldikova for ultimate performance . Is one better than the other? Like greatness, that is a purely subjective thing.

But for me, Goldikova's career has certainly been more satisfying.

AMEN

[horses721]

That she is fortunate to be a turf horse dramatically decreasing the chances of breaking down
Doesn't that junk that Zenyatta races on protect her from breaking down?

Then again, Zenyatta had to leave her home barn twice in 3 years to race in unfamiliar territory unlike Goldivka who has traveled to many different unfamiliar barns, racetracks and countries. If the almighty Zenyatta leaves the state of Caifornia, it is a miracle!