The top 3 worst jockeys to bet?

[only11]

I cant bet Alex Solis,Edgar Prado,Nokatani..

[46zilzal]

you bet riders? When they start running that is when I bet them.

[only11]

you bet riders? When they start running that is when I bet them.
Good one,,gee at some point you have to consider the jockey who rides your horse my god..

[cj's dad]

Good one,,gee at some point you have to consider the jockey who rides your horse my god..

I agree with Zilly - jockeys cannot make a horse run faster- they can only fail to break, fall off, or not know where the finish line is.

[Zman179]

I strongly consider jockeys when handicapping, because a bad jockey can put a good horse in a position to lose. Like going seven wide into the stretch when the rail was open, or looking like a statue even though he's flailing away with the whip, etc.

I'm not going to name names because there are a bunch of bad riders, but I'll pretty much discount a jockey at a cheap track who's winning with 8% or less of his/her mounts.

[AZWrobel]

I strongly consider jockeys when handicapping, because a bad jockey can put a good horse in a position to lose. Like going seven wide into the stretch when the rail was open, or looking like a statue even though he's flailing away with the whip, etc.

I'm not going to name names because there are a bunch of bad riders, but I'll pretty much discount a jockey at a cheap track who's winning with 8% or less of his/her mounts.
I am right there with you Zman. Some of the tracks I am more familiar with and play are smaller tracks (Yavapai, Arapahoe) and some of the riders their are really bad. Sometimes it works in your benefit when they are riding a good horse and you can throw them out. But yes, I definitely consider the jock when handicapping.

[illinoisbred]

Eduardo Perez(Arlington/Hawthorne) is quite poor at getting front-running sprinters out of the gate. Consistently,they break slow,stumble,or rear-up.

[GaryG]

I pretty much agree with zilly on this as well. Some times a rider switch is a clue as to trainer intent, but if I have the right horse I am not that concerned with the rider. Especially if he rides the horse regularly.

[lamboguy]

years ago i sent a horse out to california to run in her maiden race. she was in for a maiden $40k tag. i sent the horse to a bad trainer, with an even worse rider. his name was CRAIG PHILIP FAINE in case any of you remember him. i think he was something like 1 for 87 when i sent him out there with my horse. my horse wound up running third, 2 days later she was in the BARRETT sale that i entered her 3 months earlier. when the gavel dropped on this horse she brought $75,000. that was exactly $60k more than the reserve that i had placed on her.

horseracing game is all about perception

[CBedo]

I used to not pay attention to jockeys at all. My approach has changed slightly. I still don't use them as part of the core handicapping process, but I have learned that they might not be able to make a horse go faster, but there are definitely some in certain situations that make horses go slower.

Other than that, they might not affect the horse's performance dramatically, but they dramatically affect the odds of the horse.

[JustRalph]

I cant bet Alex Solis,Edgar Prado,Nokatani..

you're kidding right? I would take those 3 over 90 percent of those out there

you are kidding right? I admit Prado is not the rider he used to be. But overall.......come on?

[Igeteven]

I cant bet Alex Solis,Edgar Prado,Nokatani..\


Alex Solis, is the worst one of them all, :ThmbDown:

[andymays]

\


Alex Solis, is the worst one of them all, :ThmbDown:

I can't stand betting on him. You never feel like you're getting his best effort. When you win with him you feel like he was just on the best horse but when you lose with him and he's close you always feel like he didn't try hard enough. Maybe it's just his style but I think a lot of people have felt the same way for the last several years.

[trackrat59]

I always check to see if a jockey has two regular mounts in one race and if so, who did they stay on. Every now and again you see a race where a jockey has three regular mounts. This angle has worked more often than not for me.

I think paying attention to jockeys at the smaller tracks is probably more significant than at the bigger tracks.

[banacek]

I am right there with you Zman. Some of the tracks I am more familiar with and play are smaller tracks (Yavapai, Arapahoe) and some of the riders their are really bad. Sometimes it works in your benefit when they are riding a good horse and you can throw them out. But yes, I definitely consider the jock when handicapping.

I agree about the smaller tracks...at Hastings there are a couple of almost automatic throwouts. Justin Jensen 45 starts: 0 wins..2 seconds. Jose Tapia: 20 starts 0 wins 1 second. Don't know much about either of these jocks. and they may improve, but right now, I'm staying away. Now I imagine, they'll both win this weekend :) .

But if Justin Jensen is on a decent horse and is 20-1 or 30-1, I'll consider it, but he won't get a nickel of mine at 4-1. I'll take the loss if he wins.

I find generally if the horse has a 10% jock or a 20% jock, I don't care much. Anyways the 20% jock will be likely be overbet, so in the long run I might be better off with the 10% guy. One of the poorer jocks here came in a 25-1 the other day. The horse had no reason to be those odds, so I had a small amount on his horse, even though I rarely bet him.

Now when I played the harness races more, there were only about 4 drivers I would bet..the rest weren't worth the stress!

[Valuist]

I agree jocks are generally overrated as a factor, but there are some instances when they can make a difference.

Recently at Arlington there was a horse coming off a 6f race in which he opened up a 6 length lead thru blazing fractions then tired badly in the final quarter. The horse was switching from a chump rider to ET Baird, an accomplished front running rider. Baird got the horse on the lead and instead of opening up 6 lengths, he kept the horse 1 to 1 1/2 lengths in front before extending late. No doubt the chump would've burned the horse out. This was clearly an instance where the rider did make a difference.

[tzipi]

I agree jocks are generally overrated as a factor, but there are some instances when they can make a difference.

I agree. I loved Roman Dominquez this winter at Aqueduct. He took horses with decent speed, took them to the front and put the rest of the field to sleep for easy wins. Some of the winners had decent value too. He's holding his own at Belmont too. Gotta love this guy.

[shouldacoulda]

I cant bet Alex Solis,Edgar Prado,Nokatani..
I think each jockey has his strong points. Prado I think, at least lately, has been good in turf routes he's not as good at dirt sprints. Dominguez is great in routes and sprints but not with maidens especially 1st timers. There is nothing worse than to see the jockey on your horse stand up in the irons and take the horse out of the race. Until I'm in their shoes though, I can't even begin to make the call. Just as important as the jockey is the trainer he's riding for. Some can't train a horse well for sprints and some not for routes. Some do both well and the others well... They are the ones responsible for the condition of the horse.

[David-LV]

\


Alex Solis, is the worst one of them all, :ThmbDown:

I don't think your statement is correct.

Just to refresh your memory, below is Alex Solis record:

Career wins 4,500+ (ongoing)


Major racing wins, honors & awards Major racing wins:

Florida Derby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Derby) (1986, 1997)
Santa Anita Derby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Anita_Derby) (1986, 2006)
San Juan Capistrano Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Juan_Capistrano_Handicap)
(1986, 1996, 2006)
Los Angeles Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Handicap)
(1988, 1999, 2002, 2006)
Hollywood Derby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Derby) (1989, 1999, 2002)
La Brea Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Brea_Stakes) (1990, 2002)
Malibu Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malibu_Stakes) (1990, 2000)
San Felipe Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Felipe_Stakes) (1990, 1992)
Del Mar Oaks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Mar_Oaks) (1992, 2008)
Eatontown Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eatontown_Handicap) (2000)
John C. Mabee Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Mabee_Handicap) (2003)
Eddie Read Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Read_Handicap) (2001, 2005, 2007)
Bing Crosby Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bing_Crosby_Handicap) (1988, 1998, 2000, 2001)
Pat O'Brien Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_O%27Brien_Handicap) (2006)
Del Mar Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Mar_Handicap) (1990, 1997, 2003, 2006)
Del Mar Debutante Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Mar_Debutante_Stakes)
(1990, 1991, 1994, 2005)
Del Mar Futurity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Mar_Futurity) (1991, 1994)
Santa Paula Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Paula_Stakes) (1995, 1997, 2007)
La Canada Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Canada_Stakes) (1996, 2003, 2004)
Morris Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Ensign_Handicap) (1996)
Pacific Classic Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Classic_Stakes) (1996)
Queen Elizabeth II Challenge Cup Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_II_Challenge_Cup_Stakes) (1997)
Wood Memorial Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_Memorial_Stakes) (1997)
Yellow Ribbon Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Ribbon_Stakes) (1997, 2005, 2009)
Santa Anita Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Anita_Handicap) (1998)
Vernon O. Underwood Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_O._Underwood_Stakes) (1999)
Providencia Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Providencia_Stakes)(1999, 2002, 2005)
San Gabriel Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Gabriel_Handicap) (2000, 2003)
Hollywood Turf Cup Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Turf_Cup_Stakes) (2001)
Secretariat Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretariat_Stakes) (2001)
Manhattan Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Handicap) (2002)
Del Mar Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Mar_Handicap) (2003, 2006)
Sham Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sham_Stakes) (2003, 2004, 2009, 2010)
Sunshine Millions Sprint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Millions_Sprint) (2003)
Carter Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Handicap) (2004)
Metropolitan Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Handicap) (2004)
Acorn Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Stakes) (2006)
Eddie Logan Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Logan_Stakes) (2007)
Las Cienegas Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Cienegas_Handicap) (2008)
Gamely Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamely_Stakes) (2009)
San Clemente Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Clemente_Handicap) (2009)
Sham Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sham_Stakes) (2009)
San Rafael Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Rafael_Stakes) (2009)
Railbird Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railbird_Stakes) (2010) American Classics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Classic_Races) / Breeders' Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeders%27_Cup) wins:
Preakness Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preakness_Stakes) (1986)
Breeders' Cup Sprint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeders%27_Cup_Sprint) (2000)
Breeders' Cup Turf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeders%27_Cup_Turf) (2003)
Breeders' Cup Classic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeders%27_Cup_Classic) (2003)


International race wins:


Dubai Golden Shaheen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_Golden_Shaheen) (2000, 2004)
Dubai World Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_World_Cup) (2004) Racing awards George Woolf Memorial Jockey Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Woolf_Memorial_Jockey_Award) (1997) Honors Calder Race Course Hall of Fame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calder_Race_Course#Calder_Race_Course_Hall_of_Fame ) (2002)
Significant horses Snow Chief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Chief), Kona Gold (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kona_Gold), Beat Hollow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_Hollow)
Pleasantly Perfect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasantly_Perfect), Brother Derek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Derek), The Pamplemousse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pamplemousse)
________
David-LV

[serp]

I pay more attention to jockeys on synthetics or rain. They seem to make more of a difference then.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I don't handicap looking at jockeys, but if I have horses tied, I will then look at jockeys to break the tie.

[Robert Goren]

It is really hard for me to bet a horse with some jockey who is 2 for 45 at meet riding it.

[OntheRail]

Prado if on the inside on any surface. Questionable is Rosario as he can have some very hinky rides. Otereo at Pen. :bang:

[lamboguy]

i am glad to see that we have alot of jockey experts out there. naturally there must be something wrong with me, in over 40 years of watching horseracing i have never seen one jockey make a slow horse go faster. but i have seen plenty of jockey's make fast horses go slower!

[BombsAway Bob]

at Suffolk,
i'll pass on Frankie Amonte,Sr. until he gets off the 5-year donut...
at Los Alamitos,
Baltazar Contreras is a deal-breaker for me in Pick-4 bets,
at Delta/Evg.
Tracy Hebert is always a "wager-off" angle! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[eastie]

at Suffolk,
i'll pass on Frankie Amonte,Sr. until he gets off the 5-year donut...
at Los Alamitos,
Baltazar Contreras is a deal-breaker for me in Pick-4 bets,
at Delta/Evg.
Tracy Hebert is always a "wager-off" angle! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I wanted to see Amonte win one in his seventies (a la Billy Curtain ? or did he just look 70) Tamay Alpander off is a great angle at suffolk.


No Jean Luc Samyn for me.

[DAT]

Man, Amonte can't even keep his mounts within 20 lengths of the lead. And every time he rides I'm nervous the whole time that the poor guy is going to go down. I wish they could somehow get him to stop riding.

I'll also pass on Jaqueline Falk at Suffolk. The next time I see her keep a horse on a straight path will be the first time I've seen it. And the way Felix Ferrar has ridden his mounts the last 2 days I don't think he'll be getting any action from me.

As for Alpander, I'll never throw her out if I like the horse. I'm not going to judge jockeys harshly when 90% of their mounts go off at 20-1 or worse.

[Sericm]

Regarding Alex Solis, I was never happier than when he left for Kentucky.
The only horses he was winning out here were with high priced Maidens and Stakes races when he rode for certain trainers. He hasn't been the same since he came back from his injury.

Nakatani struggled with mounts in cheaper races, but I was sorry to see him go as he was one of the best turf riders out here.

I just pay attention to the jockey/trainer combonations in the DRF at the bottom of the horses past performance.

[andicap]

I dont follow jockeys very closely but if I did, I would study which ones are not afraid to take the rail and which ones always take their horses wide. I have found some jockeys as they get older become afraid of the rail. Eddle Maple comes to mind in his latter years.
Of course I am not talking about front-runners, only sustained or mid-pack types.

[andicap]

Eduardo Perez(Arlington/Hawthorne) is quite poor at getting front-running sprinters out of the gate. Consistently,they break slow,stumble,or rear-up.

I was curious if the numbers on him confirmed the perception -- its my belief a lot of opinions about jockeys and trainers are based on anecdotal reaction and not on the hard facts.

Here are some interesting stats about Perez for the past year (excepting the last two weeks). The most relevant stat is down the list under #8.


1. He wins at 17% overall.
2. He outperforms in posts 1,2,3 winning above 20% and at higher ROIs than most other PPs.
3. He does appreciably better at Haw than AP winning 19% at an 0.85 ROI to 14% and .69 ROI. See below.
4. For some reason he performed much better on older horses, 5 and up with his worst results coming among 2 yr olds.
5. He is below ave. on turf, winning just 11% at an 0.52 ROI. This is probably why is AP stats are so bad since on artificial he's at 16% with a 0.81 ROI. He does a better in turf sprints, 13% (but still a horrid 0.58 ROI) than turf routes, 6% winners and a 0.31 ROI.
6. At 2-5f, he is horrible, winning just 1-30, thus seeming to justify his rep for breaking slowly. BUT at 5.5f, he is excellent, winning at 22% and a 1.38 ROI. He is also poor at 8.0-8.3f and at 9-9.5f, winning just 10-11% tho at 9f-9.5f he gets decent prices. At 8-8.3f he doesn't.
7. He is fairly consistent, winning on 15% on his rides in all but three months and in only one -- September-- did he win below 10%. He won at 20% and above in three months, only once above 25%.

8. Now here is an interesting stat. Among "F" and "E" run style horses he is above average. 21% winners with "F" horses -- albeit a lot of chalk (0.77 ROI) and 20% on "E" horses (0.91 ROI). F horses need the lead to win, E horses generally run forwardly but dont NEED to be in front. (That's in HTR parlance). Furthermore, he wins at 25% on horses with 8 Quirin points (a positive ROI) and 20% on horses with 7 QP (0.75 ROI).

Seems like he gets those horses out of the gate pretty quickly.

Now this does NOT prove Perez is decent at getting his horse out of the gate, but it sure as hell seems to hint that's the case. You don't win in post 1 without being able to leave pretty quickly.
Once again, I fervently believe a lot of jockeys and trainers reputations are undeserved, based purely on skewed anecdotal evidence. If you have lost a few bets on Perez front-runners, you might interpolate those few results to all his runners even though the sample size was so incredibly tiny as to be meaningless.

[only11]

I don't think your statement is correct.

Just to refresh your memory, below is Alex Solis record:

Career wins 4,500+ (ongoing)


Major racing wins, honors & awards Major racing wins:

Florida Derby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Derby) (1986, 1997)
Santa Anita Derby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Anita_Derby) (1986, 2006)
San Juan Capistrano Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Juan_Capistrano_Handicap)
(1986, 1996, 2006)
Los Angeles Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Handicap)
(1988, 1999, 2002, 2006)
Hollywood Derby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Derby) (1989, 1999, 2002)
La Brea Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Brea_Stakes) (1990, 2002)
Malibu Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malibu_Stakes) (1990, 2000)
San Felipe Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Felipe_Stakes) (1990, 1992)
Del Mar Oaks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Mar_Oaks) (1992, 2008)
Eatontown Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eatontown_Handicap) (2000)
John C. Mabee Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Mabee_Handicap) (2003)
Eddie Read Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Read_Handicap) (2001, 2005, 2007)
Bing Crosby Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bing_Crosby_Handicap) (1988, 1998, 2000, 2001)
Pat O'Brien Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_O%27Brien_Handicap) (2006)
Del Mar Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Mar_Handicap) (1990, 1997, 2003, 2006)
Del Mar Debutante Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Mar_Debutante_Stakes)
(1990, 1991, 1994, 2005)
Del Mar Futurity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Mar_Futurity) (1991, 1994)
Santa Paula Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Paula_Stakes) (1995, 1997, 2007)
La Canada Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Canada_Stakes) (1996, 2003, 2004)
Morris Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Ensign_Handicap) (1996)
Pacific Classic Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Classic_Stakes) (1996)
Queen Elizabeth II Challenge Cup Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_II_Challenge_Cup_Stakes) (1997)
Wood Memorial Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_Memorial_Stakes) (1997)
Yellow Ribbon Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Ribbon_Stakes) (1997, 2005, 2009)
Santa Anita Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Anita_Handicap) (1998)
Vernon O. Underwood Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_O._Underwood_Stakes) (1999)
Providencia Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Providencia_Stakes)(1999, 2002, 2005)
San Gabriel Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Gabriel_Handicap) (2000, 2003)
Hollywood Turf Cup Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Turf_Cup_Stakes) (2001)
Secretariat Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretariat_Stakes) (2001)
Manhattan Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Handicap) (2002)
Del Mar Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Mar_Handicap) (2003, 2006)
Sham Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sham_Stakes) (2003, 2004, 2009, 2010)
Sunshine Millions Sprint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Millions_Sprint) (2003)
Carter Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Handicap) (2004)
Metropolitan Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Handicap) (2004)
Acorn Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Stakes) (2006)
Eddie Logan Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Logan_Stakes) (2007)
Las Cienegas Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Cienegas_Handicap) (2008)
Gamely Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamely_Stakes) (2009)
San Clemente Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Clemente_Handicap) (2009)
Sham Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sham_Stakes) (2009)
San Rafael Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Rafael_Stakes) (2009)
Railbird Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railbird_Stakes) (2010) American Classics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Classic_Races) / Breeders' Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeders%27_Cup) wins:
Preakness Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preakness_Stakes) (1986)
Breeders' Cup Sprint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeders%27_Cup_Sprint) (2000)
Breeders' Cup Turf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeders%27_Cup_Turf) (2003)
Breeders' Cup Classic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeders%27_Cup_Classic) (2003)


International race wins:


Dubai Golden Shaheen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_Golden_Shaheen) (2000, 2004)
Dubai World Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_World_Cup) (2004) Racing awards George Woolf Memorial Jockey Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Woolf_Memorial_Jockey_Award) (1997) Honors Calder Race Course Hall of Fame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calder_Race_Course#Calder_Race_Course_Hall_of_Fame ) (2002)
Significant horses Snow Chief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Chief), Kona Gold (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kona_Gold), Beat Hollow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_Hollow)
Pleasantly Perfect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasantly_Perfect), Brother Derek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Derek), The Pamplemousse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pamplemousse)
________
David-LV
We are talking about RIGHT NOW....

[jballscalls]

my buddy (who was a jockey agent) used to always say

"there is a reason the horse get's 90% of the purse money"

and my dad's favorite line about jockeys was

"Any fool can cook with a pound of butter"

good horses tend to make good jockeys. i definately look at jockeys, but not a key in my capping

[xfile]

For whatever % the jock matters = There will never be another Jerry Bailey

[Stevie Belmont]

Jockey capping is a total waste of time to me. I put other factors way ahead of who is riding. Bottom line the better jocks will be on the better horses and vice-versa.

No two races are exactly the same. I take into account different variables of each race. Every now and than a jockey change or switch might catch my. I take those situations into consderation when they pop up.

[Igeteven]

I don't think your statement is correct.

Just to refresh your memory, below is Alex Solis record:

Career wins 4,500+ (ongoing)


Major racing wins, honors & awards Major racing wins:

Florida Derby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Derby) (1986, 1997)
Santa Anita Derby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Anita_Derby) (1986, 2006)
San Juan Capistrano Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Juan_Capistrano_Handicap)
(1986, 1996, 2006)
Los Angeles Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Handicap)
(1988, 1999, 2002, 2006)
Hollywood Derby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Derby) (1989, 1999, 2002)
La Brea Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Brea_Stakes) (1990, 2002)
Malibu Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malibu_Stakes) (1990, 2000)
San Felipe Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Felipe_Stakes) (1990, 1992)
Del Mar Oaks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Mar_Oaks) (1992, 2008)
Eatontown Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eatontown_Handicap) (2000)
John C. Mabee Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Mabee_Handicap) (2003)
Eddie Read Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Read_Handicap) (2001, 2005, 2007)
Bing Crosby Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bing_Crosby_Handicap) (1988, 1998, 2000, 2001)
Pat O'Brien Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_O%27Brien_Handicap) (2006)
Del Mar Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Mar_Handicap) (1990, 1997, 2003, 2006)
Del Mar Debutante Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Mar_Debutante_Stakes)
(1990, 1991, 1994, 2005)
Del Mar Futurity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Mar_Futurity) (1991, 1994)
Santa Paula Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Paula_Stakes) (1995, 1997, 2007)
La Canada Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Canada_Stakes) (1996, 2003, 2004)
Morris Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Ensign_Handicap) (1996)
Pacific Classic Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Classic_Stakes) (1996)
Queen Elizabeth II Challenge Cup Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_II_Challenge_Cup_Stakes) (1997)
Wood Memorial Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_Memorial_Stakes) (1997)
Yellow Ribbon Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Ribbon_Stakes) (1997, 2005, 2009)
Santa Anita Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Anita_Handicap) (1998)
Vernon O. Underwood Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_O._Underwood_Stakes) (1999)
Providencia Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Providencia_Stakes)(1999, 2002, 2005)
San Gabriel Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Gabriel_Handicap) (2000, 2003)
Hollywood Turf Cup Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Turf_Cup_Stakes) (2001)
Secretariat Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretariat_Stakes) (2001)
Manhattan Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Handicap) (2002)
Del Mar Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Mar_Handicap) (2003, 2006)
Sham Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sham_Stakes) (2003, 2004, 2009, 2010)
Sunshine Millions Sprint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Millions_Sprint) (2003)
Carter Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Handicap) (2004)
Metropolitan Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Handicap) (2004)
Acorn Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Stakes) (2006)
Eddie Logan Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Logan_Stakes) (2007)
Las Cienegas Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Cienegas_Handicap) (2008)
Gamely Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamely_Stakes) (2009)
San Clemente Handicap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Clemente_Handicap) (2009)
Sham Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sham_Stakes) (2009)
San Rafael Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Rafael_Stakes) (2009)
Railbird Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railbird_Stakes) (2010) American Classics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Classic_Races) / Breeders' Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeders%27_Cup) wins:
Preakness Stakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preakness_Stakes) (1986)
Breeders' Cup Sprint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeders%27_Cup_Sprint) (2000)
Breeders' Cup Turf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeders%27_Cup_Turf) (2003)
Breeders' Cup Classic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeders%27_Cup_Classic) (2003)


International race wins:


Dubai Golden Shaheen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_Golden_Shaheen) (2000, 2004)
Dubai World Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_World_Cup) (2004) Racing awards George Woolf Memorial Jockey Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Woolf_Memorial_Jockey_Award) (1997) Honors Calder Race Course Hall of Fame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calder_Race_Course#Calder_Race_Course_Hall_of_Fame ) (2002)
Significant horses Snow Chief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Chief), Kona Gold (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kona_Gold), Beat Hollow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_Hollow)
Pleasantly Perfect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasantly_Perfect), Brother Derek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Derek), The Pamplemousse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pamplemousse)
________
David-LV

That was then, not now,

[Zman179]

my buddy (who was a jockey agent) used to always say

"there is a reason the horse get's 90% of the purse money"

and my dad's favorite line about jockeys was

"Any fool can cook with a pound of butter"

good horses tend to make good jockeys. i definately look at jockeys, but not a key in my capping

But at PM, Joe Crispin won 34% of his races and was in the money in nearly 67%. I'm sorry, but with stats like that you HAVE to consider the jockey, even if he's riding a bum.

[andymays]

The thing about Solis is that a couple of years ago he came out and said he rode scared for a few years after a bad fall. Most people who follow Southern Califronia racing could see how tentative he was riding and his admission was not a surprise. The problem with that is that he carries that burden from now on. Rightly or wrongly quite a few people don't feel like they're getting his best effort.

[1st time lasix]

go against Prado in Saratoga at your own risk. :cool:

[cnollfan]

i am glad to see that we have alot of jockey experts out there. naturally there must be something wrong with me, in over 40 years of watching horseracing i have never seen one jockey make a slow horse go faster. but i have seen plenty of jockey's make fast horses go slower!

At Oaklawn, Calvin Borel gets many horses to the lead, the rail and the winners circle that most other jocks would have off the pace, on the outside, and not in the winners circle.

I love "leading rider off" as a handicapping angle. The bettors overreact, reasoning "if Lucky Old Sun couldn't win with [Gomez, Dominguez, etc.] aboard, how will he win with this lesser rider?" They miss the point that for the top jock to have been on the horse in the first place is a handicapping thumbs-up, the horse's finish in that race notwithstanding.

Although the opposite has been stated in this thread, I also like to bet *against* the jockey choice if there is a subsequent odds discrepancy. He can't ride both horses, so I don't read that much into which one he preferred since a choice was forced.

[Johnny V]

I cant bet Alex Solis,Edgar Prado,Nokatani..
For me it is Julio Pezua. In the past I have never had any luck at all betting a horse he is riding. It got to the point that I just stopped betting anything I liked that he was riding at major tracks. Even if he was riding another horse in the race it seemed like he somehow managed to mess me up at times. I am sure he has his good moments but he was just bad luck for me.

[Run Nicholas Run]

I strongly consider jockeys when handicapping, because a bad jockey can put a good horse in a position to lose. Like going seven wide into the stretch when the rail was open, or looking like a statue even though he's flailing away with the whip, etc.

I'm not going to name names because there are a bunch of bad riders, but I'll pretty much discount a jockey at a cheap track who's winning with 8% or less of his/her mounts.

You are correct.
How could anyone really want to back horses ridden
by Tyrone Carter, Donnie French or Ron Beverly :D

[Wickel]

Prado is almost an automatic throwout for me because of his indecisiveness and his propensity to get into too much trouble on the turn (always getting boxed on the rail). Solis, I feel, still has some ability left in the tank and he's doing well in Kentucky. Change of scenery helped. The one jock that I go back and forth on is Desormeaux. Sometimes he's brilliant, especially on the turf, and other times he pulls a "Big Brown"--totally throwing in the towel at midstretch.

[JustRalph]

I dont follow jockeys very closely but if I did, I would study which ones are not afraid to take the rail and which ones always take their horses wide..

This is one thing I look at too........if they are afraid to go near the rail or through a hole....... I can usually mark them down........

[Space Monkey]

It was common knowledge to layoff any odds on favorite that Norman Mercier was riding at Narragansett Park. Also, never bet a tip that came from Santo Gabriele or any of his relatives:lol:

[AZWrobel]

You are correct.
How could anyone really want to back horses ridden
by Tyrone Carter, Donnie French or Ron Beverly :D
:lol: Donnie French is in the money 3 for 44 at Yav currently. Steve Hancock and Fernando Gamez aren't much better

[DeoVolente]

I never factor in jockeys when handicapping. I just hope I don't land on 54 year old Jean-Luc Samyn...

[eastie]

For whatever % the jock matters = There will never be another Jerry Bailey



one of the greatest chalk incinerators of all time.

[BlueShoe]

I love "leading rider off" as a handicapping angle.
With you on this one. In NorCal "Baze off" always gets my attention if the horse gets another good rider. Instead of 8-5 with Russell back aboard, might get 5-2 or 3-1 with the completely capable other rider. Even better if Baze has another mount in the same race. Jocks and their agents make the wrong choice often; it is part of racing.