Zenyatta can't do enough to get rid of the detractors. I dont get it.

[Zippy Chippy]

Front Page Churchill Gazette November 7th 2010

Louisville Kentucky,

"Zenyatta moves to a perfect 20 for 20 by beating 13 other competitors in one of the most exciting Breeders Cup Classics in history. She was 13th at the top of the stretch, but picked of horse after horse and blew by Rachel Alexandra and Quality Road in the last 100 yards. "

Logon to Pace Advantage to talk about it. There is already a thread.. Lets see.

"I dont want to talk anything away from Zenyatta, but i still need to see how she can do against 15 boys"

"I wont be convinced until she runs in the Arc and can prove she can run clockwise"

"Id like to see if Zen can beat Somebeachsomewhere in a 1 mile harness pace"

Obviously im exaggerating but i hate going on to threads after races. There are mostly good posts but still people complaining. I didn't think those posts would ever continue after the 2009 BC. She's a super horse. A freak. People should be excited for racing.

[tucker6]

She's a super horse. A freak.
See, this is the problem. She's not a super horse, nor is she a freak. She's well managed.

Granted, coming from behind 17 straight times is quite the feat, as a bad trip could derail the streak. I'll give her that, and agree that she is a very good horse. However, her times and lack of quality competition diminish her "greatness". You can try to get around that all you want, but until and unless she starts performing like a great horse, she isn't one. Winning streaks along with other attributes makes a great horse. As far as I can see, she only has a winning streak. Many may laugh at that last statement, but none of the all-time greats got there because of wins only. They were feared on the track by horse and jockey alike. They had the IT factor. They were often producing fast or record performances, and didn't shrink from competition. Those are super horses. JMHO

[andymays]

I've posted this about 10 times over the last year but here it goes again.

Until she faces the likes of Quality Road or other grade 1 males on the dirt there will always be questions . She will gain more respect from everyone if she tries and loses than to not try at all.

That's the bottom line.

She is already great and special and all that stuff but she needs to go one step further.

[Zippy Chippy]

I've posted this about 10 times over the last year but here it goes again.

Until she faces the likes of Quality Road or other grade 1 males on the dirt there will always be questions . She will gain more respect from everyone if she tries and loses than to not try at all.

That's the bottom line.

She is already great and special and all that stuff but she needs to go one step further.

Well lets hope that happens! I hope she is given the chance too

[Robert Goren]

The bottom line is that this got started last year as feud between RA fans and Zenyatta fans. Ever since that debacle in Arkansas, the RA fans have been grasping at straws and Quality Road is just the latest straw.

[DeanT]

Winning streaks along with other attributes makes a great horse. As far as I can see, she only has a winning streak.

11 grade one wins on two different surfaces and the first female in history to win the Breeders Cup Classic, and she "only has a winning streak"?

You would think she was racing every month at Mountaineer against Bart Baird shippers in an added condition, also eligible winners of over $6M.

[Robert Goren]

There is no way that they are going to race Quality Road against Zenyatta. There is no up side. A win would not help his stud value very much and a loss would kill it. Right now for Quality Road, it is all about building a resume of grade I wins and big BSF for stud value.

[Hedevar]

See, this is the problem. She's not a super horse, nor is she a freak. She's well managed.

Granted, coming from behind 17 straight times is quite the feat, as a bad trip could derail the streak. I'll give her that, and agree that she is a very good horse. However, her times and lack of quality competition diminish her "greatness". You can try to get around that all you want, but until and unless she starts performing like a great horse, she isn't one. Winning streaks along with other attributes makes a great horse. As far as I can see, she only has a winning streak. Many may laugh at that last statement, but none of the all-time greats got there because of wins only. They were feared on the track by horse and jockey alike. They had the IT factor. They were often producing fast or record performances, and didn't shrink from competition. Those are super horses. JMHO

I agree with tucker6 completely. Great horses take on all comers and travel to get it done. They are not afraid to lose. They do not continuously race against similar horses at the same tracks and try to use a PR machine to win Horse of the Year. Did she when the BCC? Absolutely on one of her favorite tracks and favorite surfaces against shippers, some from Europe, horses unfamiliar with the surface and turf horses.

Cigar traveled the world to win 16 staight races giving huge amounts of weight in the 90s. Citation won his 16 in a row in the 40s when travel was a real challenge taking on all comers, his connections not worrying about what race was a Handicap. Let's not forget about Buckpasser who won 15 in a row in the 60s racing from New York to California, Florida to Illinois while asking no quarter. Excuse us who have been around for awhile for not being overly impressed.

[phatbastard]

my goodness.....don't you fans have any handicapping to do or kids to play with or spouses to keep happy? this debate is getting old.. maybe someday they will meet or not, who knows? but everyday for over a year now is getting boring......

[BluegrassProf]

The bottom line is that this got started last year as feud between RA fans and Zenyatta fans. Ever since that debacle in Arkansas, the RA fans have been grasping at straws and Quality Road is just the latest straw.The RA/Zen back-and-forth is hype and emotional investment, little more - as of late, it's primarily either a method of introducing immediate perspective into the debate (ex: recent race records) or an excuse to remove it from the discussion completely (you're a Racheluver/Zenhater and you's astoopid). To think that critique of Zenyatta's campaign wouldn't exist without RA is absurd, and missing the point completely.

Take her out of the picture, and Zenyatta looks exactly as she does today - whatever that might mean from various perspectives.

[tucker6]

11 grade one wins on two different surfaces and the first female in history to win the Breeders Cup Classic, and she "only has a winning streak"?

You would think she was racing every month at Mountaineer against Bart Baird shippers in an added condition, also eligible winners of over $6M.
A good case can be made that her grade one competition has been suspect, and that her BCC win was tainted by the fact that it was on her preferred surface against horses whose main surface was dirt or grass. I hear the BCC mentioned all the time, but in reality, it doesn't support Zenyatta that much.

[DeanT]

Hedevar,

You are applying rules to colts who raced in a different age. Of course they went to all the big open events. RA will race no more than two or three times in her career in non-age or sex restricted open events, and Z will do the same.

They are not colts, and this is not 1960 anymore.

[andymays]

Most Horseplayers don't respect races won on synthetic surfaces as much as races won on dirt. That's part of the reason for some of the lack of respect. Synthetic surfaces favor her style.

You may not agree with the above statements but rightly or wrongly that's part of what's driving the debate.

[DeanT]

A good case can be made that her grade one competition has been suspect, and that her BCC win was tainted by the fact that it was on her preferred surface against horses whose main surface was dirt or grass. I hear the BCC mentioned all the time, but in reality, it doesn't support Zenyatta that much.
Lots of cases can be made for lotsa horses over the years to dissect them and their competition, but 50 years from now they will see 11 grade I wins and the first female to win the BC. They wont know (nor care about) the speed figures, or that Rip Van Winkle had a bad day when they met.

[Robert Goren]

my goodness.....don't you fans have any handicapping to do or kids to play with or spouses to keep happy? this debate is getting old.. maybe someday they will meet or not, who knows? but everyday for over a year now is getting boring...... :( It is Monday, so no handicapping. No wife and no kids. I do have to go the grocery store, but have been putting that off.

[tucker6]

Lots of cases can be made for lotsa horses over the years to dissect them and their competition, but 50 years from now they will see 11 grade I wins and the first female to win the BC. They wont know (nor care about) the speed figures, or that Rip Van Winkle had a bad day when they met.I can't disagree with you. That is human nature.

[Dahoss9698]

There is no way that they are going to race Quality Road against Zenyatta. There is no up side. A win would not help his stud value very much and a loss would kill it. Right now for Quality Road, it is all about building a resume of grade I wins and big BSF for stud value.

You continue to impress. A loss by Quality Road to Zenyatta would kill his potential stud value? Where do you come up with this stuff?

[DeanT]

I can't disagree with you. That is human nature.
I know what you are saying and I agree as well to a point, but we can go in cirles forever. It is similar with RA, and it is unfair, imo.

She won the Preakness..... but who did she beat; a bad horse who has not done a thing since.

She won the Haskell, sure against SB, but SB did not like the track.

She won the Woodward, but against bad speed horses who collapsed they were so bad, and two other closers who have barely hit the board since.

I couldnt care less if SB did not like the track or MIB is not the second coming of Curlin. She could not like a track too, or be busted by a bias, or beat by having a bad day.... but she came, she entered, she raced well, she won, and she deserves to be up there with the best 3YO fillies ever. Zenyatta deserves similar respect for some of her wins. She too could have been Rip Van Winkle or others who raced poorly when up against her, but she wasnt.

JMO.

[Hedevar]

Hedevar,

You are applying rules to colts who raced in a different age. Of course they went to all the big open events. RA will race no more than two or three times in her career in non-age or sex restricted open events, and Z will do the same.

They are not colts, and this is not 1960 anymore.

Dean,

Fillies took on colts even back in 40s Bewitch dealt Citation a loss over 60 years ago. Priceless Gem took on Buckpasser and nearly beat him. Zenyatta will not even leave home other than some quick trips to Hot Springs. Do some traveling and take on other mares. Racing is certainly not the same as it was back in the day. The difference between females and males is not as pronounced today as it was 40 years ago. Look at the size of Zenyatta. As for your assertion that Zenyatta will race in two or three non gender restricted open events, as of today that remains speculation.

[Grits]

Hedevar,

You are applying rules to colts who raced in a different age. Of course they went to all the big open events. RA will race no more than two or three times in her career in non-age or sex restricted open events, and Z will do the same.

They are not colts, and this is not 1960 anymore.

Dean, I don't believe this is a relative excuse. Not in any way. It doesn't matter what decade we're in.

Travel is far more accessible today than it has ever been. And travel is no more "difficult" on a colt or a mare today than it was decades ago. If anything, its much better on a bohemoth 737 than a hollowed out DC9 or 10.

Moss spoke of travel, nationwide, for this year. Then, changed his tune, again.

I agree with Tucker and Hedevar.

She is much loved and will always be respected for this record, but the fact will remain that 95% of it has been achieved in SoCal on artificial surfaces. Her owner and trainer chose the "comforts of home" and the "building of the record" over facing the highest caliber of horses in the sport. This is a fact that cannot be denied or left out of the picture. JMHO.

[DeanT]

Hi Hedavar,

Sure I get what you are saying, but don't you give anything to where she is as a large reason why we have not seen her in many east coast races, or on dirt less than normal?

She's in CA. If SA was synth, but Del Mar and Hollywood were dirt we certainly would have seen her many more times on dirt. She did not put her hoof up and have a vote for the synth mandate. If she was stationed on the east coast we certainly would have seen her have a Rachel like shipping year would we not? The BC, by happenstance, occurred two years in a row in So Cal. If those two years were at CD and GP we would have seen her there, no?

I think a lot of it has to do with happenstance, although I agree she would have made a couple more trips east in her career if she had different owners. Then again, we might be speaking of her today because of exactly that.

[DeanT]

Dean, I don't believe this is a relative excuse. Not in any way. It doesn't matter what decade we're in.

Travel is far more accessible today than it has ever been. And travel is no more "difficult" on a colt or a mare today than it was decades ago. If anything, its much better on a bohemoth 737 than a hollowed out DC9 or 10.

I think it is a different game today and comparing generations is futile. More horses are primed for big efforts today. A lot of the horses of yesterday had cakewalks; now second stringers from supertrainers have their horses primed to make you work, and chink by chink take something out of you. The fastest speed fig for a 3YO run early in the year since Beyer has been keeping track is This One's For Phil - 1st time Dutrow. Try having a potential world class sprinter who needs to develop, and meet him and have your head cracked open off the barn change. It happens time and time again and it was not like that 40 years ago.

Horses race 3 less times a year now than they did in the 1970's. It's a pattern because they have to race so tough now.

Imo, it is a completely different game, and that is the main reason we do not see horses race like they used to. If we are waiting for the next Citation we are going to be waiting for a long time.

[depalma113]

Or we need owners that are not afraid to lose.

[Tom]

Or we need fans who appreciate good races when they see them.

[tucker6]

Or we need fans who appreciate good races when they see them.
Define "good race" for me?? Is it a 31 length victory in world record time, or is it a come from behind win by a nose at the wire under a slow pace?? Both or neither??

[Roy C]

People will cry that she was spotted a few pounds by male rivals if she wins the Classic again....then you will have to listen to them rip her babies in a couple of years if she becomes a broodmare.

[cj]

She is much loved and will always be respected for this record, but the fact will remain that 95% of it has been achieved in SoCal on artificial surfaces. Her owner and trainer chose the "comforts of home" and the "building of the record" over facing the highest caliber of horses in the sport. This is a fact that cannot be denied or left out of the picture. JMHO.

Well stated. I only wish I could write as nicely and get my point across!

[tzipi]

She's a super horse. A freak. People should be excited for racing.

I agree with Tucker and others when they say she's a "well managed" horse. She is not a freak or a super horse. She's not going against the top males or top races everytime. We can clealy see the races she's entered in. If you are saying those are all mostly top races against the top horses in the country, then I'd be shocked.
Zens a very good horse who's consistent but I will not even say close to a super horse until she's running against the top horses in top spots every race like super horses do.

I do agree she is great for the sport, but she would be better for the sport if she was taking on the best everytime. Now, that would be great.

[cj]

People will cry that she was spotted a few pounds by male rivals if she wins the Classic again....then you will have to listen to them rip her babies in a couple of years if she becomes a broodmare.

I can't imagine anyone crying if that happened. Nice try, though.

[tzipi]

People will cry that she was spotted a few pounds by male rivals if she wins the Classic again....then you will have to listen to them rip her babies in a couple of years if she becomes a broodmare.

She should be spotted a few pounds. There is nothing wrong with that at all I think.

[rycommon]

I have been reading this fight between the RA fans and Zenyatta fans for a while. it is almost comical. the bottom line is Zenyatta is a very good horse may be one of the top 5 mares of all times. But no she is not secretariat. Rachel had a nice 3 year old year. but the fact that she has not repeated her form has send her fans on this jealous crusade. If there were not a rachel there would be none of this bs bashing of zenyatta. The truth is rachel had a nice year last year may be HOY, but in her current form even with that win in churchill, she is just one of many. Alright RA fans blast away.

[tucker6]

I have been reading this fight between the RA fans and Zenyatta fans for a while. it is almost comical. the bottom line is Zenyatta is a very good horse may be one of the top 5 mares of all times. But no she is not secretariat. Rachel had a nice 3 year old year. but the fact that she has not repeated her form has send her fans on this jealous crusade. If there were not a rachel there would be none of this bs bashing of zenyatta. The truth is rachel had a nice year last year may be HOY, but in her current form even with that win in churchill, she is just one of many. Alright RA fans blast away.
Until your post, this was not about RA, but Zenyatta. Let's stick to the topic, shall we?

[miesque]

Or we need fans who appreciate good races when they see them.

I am about ready to head to LAX after a long but wonderful weekend at Hollywood Park and to me I consider it almost a privilege to see Zenyatta race in person on not only one but several occasions and I immensely enjoy her races regardless of where and whom she is running against. I can tell you the crowd in attendence yesterday was completely fixated on Zenyatta and were enjoying every minute of seeing what they thought was a truly spectacular racehorse. I have not seen the paddock and the balconies overlooking the paddock that crowded at Hollywood since the last BC there. Obviously there are some who feel quite the opposite and I have decided that if they have not changed their minds/outlooks by this point about Zenyatta, chances are very slim that they ever will, even if she wins the Breeders Cup Classic again. I get the feeling reading comments on this board that there are many for whom if they "had" to watch Zenyatta run in person at their home track would act like they are being forced to watch nickel claimers at Penn National and I know if I was the owner I would have less than zero inclination of trying to satisfy the unsatisfiable and instead focus on the goal of winning the BC Classic for two years in a row. I have decided its a waste of time and effort trying to convert the uncoverted in this situation. Just my opinion.

[rycommon]

My observation on this board is there is no such thing as a zenyatta post or a rachel only post. here at least they have become inseperate. we can pretend and not talk about the other by name. but we all know that the responses are influenced by how each member feel about one or the other.

[FenceBored]

My observation on this board is there is no such thing as a zenyatta post or a rachel only post. here at least they have become inseperate. we can pretend and not talk about the other by name. but we all know that the responses are influenced by how each member feel about one or the other.

Psychic trolls, now I've seen it all. :eek:

[thaskalos]

I agree with Tucker and Hedevar.

She is much loved and will always be respected for this record, but the fact will remain that 95% of it has been achieved in SoCal on artificial surfaces. Her owner and trainer chose the "comforts of home" and the "building of the record" over facing the highest caliber of horses in the sport. This is a fact that cannot be denied or left out of the picture. JMHO. What about the fact that she traveled to Oaklawn this year for a "well publicized" race...and no one showed up to face her? Should THAT fact be denied and left out of the picture?

[tzipi]

I get the feeling reading comments on this board that there are many for whom if they "had" to watch Zenyatta run in person at their home track would act like they are being forced to watch nickel claimers at Penn National.

I would LOVE to see Zen run in person or dance in a NY paddock. I'll pay extra to enter the track, no problem. I would LOVE to see her closing kick on those sweeping Belmont turns. They would surely suit her. Everyone knows her talent and would go see her if she came to their track. Anyone who says otherwise is probably lying :D

If she stays out in California on the poly, that's totally cool by me. But I want to see her take down the big competition and races out there. That's all. She is surely ultra talented enough to take them on as we can see. I don't think it's overmatching her to run in the big races. Most top BC horses run in the top races beforehand. Unless maybe they think it'll be too tough on her. Who knows. I just love top horses racing eachother. It's what racing has always been about. I think that's pretty fair to say.

[Hedevar]

What about the fact that she traveled to Oaklawn this year for a "well publicized" race...and no one showed up to face her? Should THAT fact be denied and left out of the picture?

I included the two Hot Springs trips in one of my posts.

[FenceBored]

What about the fact that she traveled to Oaklawn this year for a "well publicized" race...and no one showed up to face her? Should THAT fact be denied and left out of the picture?

She said 95%. 100-95 > 0. :jump:

No denial, nothing left out of the picture.

[thaskalos]

She said 95%. 100-95 > 0. :jump:

No denial, nothing left out of the picture. Can you answer this question for me please?

The horse has been accused of staying in Cal., and beating up on the same horses all the time. "Get out of California" everyone said.

She travels to Oaklawn, where a $5M race is set up so the "dirt" horses - who don't want to suffer the indignity of racing on the "fake" surface - can finally get a crack at her.

NO ONE shows up! WHY?

[tzipi]

Can you answer this question for me please?

The horse has been accused of staying in Cal., and beating up on the same horses all the time. "Get out of California" everyone said.

She travels to Oaklawn, where a $5M race is set up so the "dirt" horses - who don't want to suffer the indignity of racing on the "fake" surface - can finally get a crack at her.

NO ONE shows up! WHY?

Well in all fairness the Apple Blossum was a race for Zen vs RA so no one really entered. I don't blame them :D . But Rachel didnt make it. Not Zens or her connections fault at all. But you can't say that was a race for "dirt horses to get a crack at her". The race was just for fillies and mares. Not ALL horses were allowed to get their crack at her.

[thaskalos]

Well in all fairness the Apple Blossum was a race for Zen vs RA so no one really entered. I don't blame them :D . But Rachel didnt make it. Not Zens or her connections fault at all. But you can't say that was a race for "dirt horses to get a crack at her". The race was just for fillies and mares. Not ALL horses were allowed to get their crack at her. Tzipi...

The criticism that she has not traveled out of California is fair...

The criticism about not facing the top males more than once a year is...ridiculous. She is a mare, and should be raced as such. Once a year in the BC Classic is more than enough for ANY mare!

[tzipi]

Tzipi...

The criticism that she has not traveled out of California is fair...

The criticism about not facing the top males more than once a year is...ridiculous. She is a mare, and should be raced as such. Once a year in the BC Classic is more than enough for ANY mare!

Hey, don't argue with me. I just said that race was not open to ALL dirt horses. That's all. If you believe racing males more than once a year for a mare is ridiculous, then fine. But Goldikova is doing it all over the place as have many female horses in the past. I don't think it's ridiculous at all. JMO

[thaskalos]

She said 95%. 100-95 > 0. :jump:

No denial, nothing left out of the picture. This 95% -5% business is not as clear-cut as it seems...

If my first 19 dates are average...but my 20th date is Megan Fox...what does that "really" say about me? :)

[thaskalos]

Hey, don't argue with me. I just said that race was not open to ALL dirt horses. That's all. If you believe racing males more than once a year for a mare is ridiculous, then fine. But Goldikova is doing it all over the place as have many female horses in the past. I don't think it's ridiculous at all. JMO Goldikova would never race in the Classic! I said once a year IN THE BC CLASSIC is enough...

[DeanT]

NO ONE shows up! WHY?
Because most horse owners have brains. If you have a good mare who is going to race 6 times this year, you want to win some races. When she is in the field, chances are you are running for second. No use throwing away 17% of your year (possibly shipping a ton of miles for a 250k race), just to say you raced her, or whatever.

I had a harness horse a couple of years ago that raced Somebeachsomewhere a couple times. Heading to the track knowing the only chance you have to win the race is if he decides to take a swim in the infield pond at the half, is not the most fun you can have as an owner.

[tzipi]

Goldikova would never race in the Classic! I said once a year IN THE BC CLASSIC is enough...

Goldikova is a turf horse who runs in turf races against the males over here and in Europe. You said running once a year in the BC classic against males is enough. I just said Goldikova runs in top races all year, against males and all over the world. That's all.

[thaskalos]

Goldikova is a turf horse who runs in turf races against the males over here and in Europe. You said running once a year in the BC classic against males is enough. I just said Goldikova runs in top races all year, against males and all over the world. That's all. European trainers have a different philosophy than American trainers when it comes to female/male competition...you know that!

[Cardus]

Front Page Churchill Gazette November 7th 2010

Louisville Kentucky,

"Zenyatta moves to a perfect 20 for 20 by beating 13 other competitors in one of the most exciting Breeders Cup Classics in history. She was 13th at the top of the stretch, but picked of horse after horse and blew by Rachel Alexandra and Quality Road in the last 100 yards. "

Logon to Pace Advantage to talk about it. There is already a thread.. Lets see.

"I dont want to talk anything away from Zenyatta, but i still need to see how she can do against 15 boys"

"I wont be convinced until she runs in the Arc and can prove she can run clockwise"

"Id like to see if Zen can beat Somebeachsomewhere in a 1 mile harness pace"

Obviously im exaggerating but i hate going on to threads after races. There are mostly good posts but still people complaining. I didn't think those posts would ever continue after the 2009 BC. She's a super horse. A freak. People should be excited for racing.

Look at some of the thread titles -- even just from today -- and you should be able to figure out where the "detractors" are coming from.

[tzipi]

European trainers have a different philosophy than American trainers when it comes to female/male competition...you know that!

I guess some Americans do too because numerous females here over the years have raced the boys more than once a year. You can believe what you want. I know history and I know top females have faced and beaten boys more than once. There's also ones doing it currently. I would love to see her connections take her talent and go after the big competition now. Would be awesome to watch. JMO . Enjoy.

[FenceBored]

Can you answer this question for me please?

The horse has been accused of staying in Cal., and beating up on the same horses all the time. "Get out of California" everyone said.

She travels to Oaklawn, where a $5M race is set up so the "dirt" horses - who don't want to suffer the indignity of racing on the "fake" surface - can finally get a crack at her.

NO ONE shows up! WHY?

Uh, it was a $500k race that no one showed up for. The $5m race got a bunch of nominations from horses who really weren't ready to go, but would be pushed for that kind of payday.

As for not showing up for $500k (which is still a nice purse), well, I'd say it was a mixture of those who don't want to face her, and those whose horses weren't in condition.

I'll repost my analysis from Feb. 24th on who could be looked for:
There have only been 2 Graded routes for older females this year, both at Santa Anita. The winner of the last one (St Trinians) is not going to run on dirt anytime in the near future. Striking Dancer (winner of the La Canada) is a turf horse (broker her maiden on CD's turf course at 2) who's adapting to synthetics. Will they want to run her on dirt?

Beyond that, I think we look back to the BC Ladies Classic field.

Careless Jewel - Possible - 2 works at Palm Meadows this year (last 2/21)
Cocoa Beach - Retired
Lethal Heat - Retired
Life is Sweet - Dubai World Cup
Mushka - Doubtful - Turf runner with synthetic moonlight
Music Note - Retired
Proviso (GB) - Doubtful - Turf/synth
Rainbow View - ? - Is she even in NA right now?


Let's expand to G1 winners from last year (3yo and 3up).

Flashing - Retired
Funny Moon - unraced since Alabama - 4 works this year at Payson
Gabby's Golden Gal - ? - Will they keep her at sprint distances, or be willing to try a route again
Hooh Why - unraced since Selene Stakes late Sept. - 1 work at Tampa
Icon Project - Retired
Santa Teresita - unraced since Fleur De Lis last June - no works
Seattle Smooth - problems last summer put her on the shelf - no works
Seventh Street - ? - defending champ of AB - no works this year
Stardom Bound - Oy
Swift Temper - Retired

Maybe we can add Funny Moon and GGG to the mix. I don't think Hooh Why will want to play on dirt (she skipped the Oaks last year to run for a 50k purse on poly at Arlington the next day).

Where does this leave us?

Careless Jewel ?
Funny Moon ?
Gabby's Golden Gal ?
Rachel Alexandra
Zenyatta

Who else is a legit invite?
-- http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67026
Now, maybe if we expanded that to the G2 winners from last year, and early this year we might find a few more who were legitimately in shape for the race, but as it stands there just don't seem to have been that many top dirt route distaffers ready to go at that point in the year. Bambera (VEN) was planning on being there until she got hurt in the Rampart at Gulfstream.

[FenceBored]

This 95% -5% business is not as clear-cut as it seems...

If my first 19 dates are average...but my 20th date is Megan Fox...what does that "really" say about me? :)

That you're lying about the 20th date. :)

[PaceAdvantage]

my goodness.....don't you fans have any handicapping to do or kids to play with or spouses to keep happy? this debate is getting old.. maybe someday they will meet or not, who knows? but everyday for over a year now is getting boring......Threads do have titles, which comes in handy when you don't want to read about a certain subject.

[PaceAdvantage]

She won the Haskell, sure against SB, but SB did not like the track.Wow. Now SB doesn't like off tracks. Really now? Maybe I assumed too much when I equated SB to Summer Bird.

And they call me a hater? :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

People will cry that she was spotted a few pounds by male rivals if she wins the Classic again....then you will have to listen to them rip her babies in a couple of years if she becomes a broodmare.No they won't.

[PaceAdvantage]

If there were not a rachel there would be none of this bs bashing of zenyatta.Utterly false. You know it, but I just had to tell you anyway.

[cj]

European trainers have a different philosophy than American trainers when it comes to female/male competition...you know that!

Well, except for Rachel's trainer apparently last year. Preakness, Haskell, Woodward.

[Hanover1]

There is no way that they are going to race Quality Road against Zenyatta. There is no up side. A win would not help his stud value very much and a loss would kill it. Right now for Quality Road, it is all about building a resume of grade I wins and big BSF for stud value.
And this buildup of value would be done by carefully spotting him? Seems a bad idea if you look at the opinions of others.....Im just sayin....your comments are spot on in regards to QR however.

[Dahoss9698]

And this buildup of value would be done by carefully spotting him? Seems a bad idea if you look at the opinions of others.....Im just sayin....your comments are spot on in regards to QR however.

So losing to Zenyatta would kill Quality Road's stud value? How so? He's a multiple grade 1 winner. He's shown brilliant speed and won the Met Mile. Granted, he's not the soundest horse around, but Unbridled's Song has had a pretty good stud career. He's going to be a very popular stallion with or without a loss to Zenyatta.