On champs running out of gas, Rachel's not the first

[Grits]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/113789.html

An excerpt:

But shortly after the La Troienne loss, trainer Steve Asmussen (who declined to be interviewed for this story, citing restrictions placed by Jackson on discussing Rachel Alexandra) said Rachel Alexandra still had not come back to her best self.
"She's just not quite as fast as she was last year," Asmussen said. "She was steady today but not quick. I don't see any reason for her not to ultimately be as explosive as she was last year. She's just not there yet, and it's possible this is somewhat of a hangover from her hard campaign last season."

Its unfortunate when a horse's trainer has been placed under a restriction such as the above. Very unfortunate, particularly given the fact trainers are paid to know and understand their horses far better than the owners! This would include owner, Jess Jackson as well.

[BluegrassProf]

Its unfortunate when a horse's trainer has been placed under a restriction such as the above. Very unfortunate, particularly given the fact trainers are paid to know and understand their horses far better than the owners!I'm certainly not arguing in support of gag orders, but what does an inability to gab to media about a horse (about, say, fitness or race plans for example) have to do with how well the trainer understands the horse? Can talking to turf writers and understanding/working with the horse be two different things? If there are comments about fitness from an owner, what leads you to believe they wouldn't originate with the trainer?

Just looking for clarification on that point...perhaps I'm just missing or misunderstanding it. I blame myself. :blush:

[horses4courses]

There are those in this forum who believe that RA takes time to reach her peak during the year. Speed figure gurus point to ascending patterns as the year progresses. They contend that her defeats this year are merely a blip on the screen, and all will be rectified as the summer warms up.

The other school of thought, to which I subscribe, is that Rachel's best races are behind her. Unfortunate, but a fact of life, imo.

She does appear well within herself these days, but racing will show us more.
Another performance like her earlier ones this year would beg the question:
Is her heart in it any more?

[Grits]

I'm certainly not arguing in support of gag orders, but what does an inability to gab to media about a horse (about, say, fitness or race plans for example) have to do with how well the trainer understands the horse? Can talking to turf writers and understanding/working with the horse be two different things? If there are comments about fitness from an owner, what leads you to believe they wouldn't originate with the trainer?

Just looking for clarification on that point...perhaps I'm just missing or misunderstanding it. I blame myself. :blush:

Bgp, my primary point is this doesn't appear to be as favorable a relationship as in the past. I question why Steve Asmussen isn't allowed to comment on the mare. He and assistant, Scott Blasi are with the mare everyday--one or the other of them. Mr.Jackson is not. Nor has Mr.Jackson been training racehorses all of his adult life. Asmussen, now though, has been placed on mute by his owner. I find that unfortunate.

Did anyone contact Bob LaPenta last week prior to the running of the Belmont to find out how Ice Box was training? Or after, to question why he ran so poorly in the race? I don't think so--believe it was Nick Zito the media spoke with.

Let Jess train the next one he pays a few million for if he feels it necessary to control every word spoken about his horses.

There's my clarification. I fully understand if you don't agree. Jackson pays the bills, he calls the shots, yada, yada, yada . . . . . but this has to be dicey at this point.

Several trainers were interviewed for this piece, and its obvious there is much to be noted in the changes of these champions from year to year.

[WinterTriangle]

If horses could only talk.

JJ did Rachel no favors.

She gave him plenty.

Some horses are talented enough to overcome their connections. Big Brown certainly did ----- for as long as he could.

Steve A. is also being done no favors by JJ. If anything, it's making him look bad.

As you can tell, I'm not a JJ fan. And, if he fries, or has fried, this lovely horse, I will be even less of his fan.

[cj's dad]

If in fact there is something going on w/ RA, Saturdays FDL could be a perfect time to watch the show pool for a bridge jumper !!

[DeanT]

Nice article to read that adds a little perspective to the ship-take on all comers at all times debate. Thanks for linking that Grits.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Rachel's first two Beyers comparable to her first two from last year?

[DeanT]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Rachel's first two Beyers comparable to her first two from last year?

"She was steady today but not quick"

She's been steady but not quick. She had turn of foot in every start except the first two this year. Something that the Beyer's do not tell you.

[joanied]

When I read that article (thanks, Grits...I was gonna post it too)...it does clarify what most of us have been saying about coming back as a 4 year old...seeing all those filly/mare names in one place really puts persepctive on the subject.(along with just how much shipping does take out of a horse)

What I found most compelling, though, is what Asmussen said about his 'gag order'...what IS that :confused:
Is it JJ's ego...that he doesn't want anyone else talking about Rachel but him...or is something else going on here? I almost feel bad for Asmussen because seems to me his hand have been tied by Jackson, and who knows...maybe JJ IS trying to train her this year:D ... but who knows, maybe it's not funny...maybe the old man is telling Asmussen what to do with her, concerning her training...no doubt, Asmussen wants to hang onto his Champion...if there is a battle of wills going on, it's all to the detrement of Rachel, which would be a shame.

I guess we'll know more, or can come to some of our own conclusions after the Fleu De Lis.

Geeze...Rachel has got to pull this one off, and do it so it looks easy...and on another note...I can imagine the pressure Calvin is feeling right now...he has to ride a perfect race with her...hell, won't surprise me if the guy gets instructions from Asmussen...then gets instructions from JJ...what's a jock to do :faint:

[BluegrassProf]

I almost feel bad for Asmussen because seems to me his hand have been tied by Jackson, and who knows...maybe JJ IS trying to train her this year:D ... but who knows, maybe it's not funny...maybe the old man is telling Asmussen what to do with her, concerning her training...no doubt, Asmussen wants to hang onto his Champion...if there is a battle of wills going on, it's all to the detrement of Rachel, which would be a shame.

I guess we'll know more, or can come to some of our own conclusions after the Fleu De Lis.See, again, I'm absolutely NOT condoning how this game's being played (the connection thing is exhausting), but the leap you're making - Steve can't talk to media so Jess is training her - is such a jump, it's kinda painful to read. :D

A bookeeper tells the military engineer that he can't talk about building a jet fighter, so the bookeeper must be building the plane...?

Notice how every little thing anyone - Steve, Jess, Dominic, Blasi, Haskin, Novak, clockers, grooms, bystanders, people driving by on the freeway - says about Rachel (or Zenyatta, or MtB just a short time ago, or Curlin, or whoever) is hyperscrutinized and overanalyzed word-for-word: looks like the only way Jess Jackson knows how to handle that is to close down the information gates. Is this appropriate? Well, not at all...best way to control information is to provide it, not to let it come from everywhere else. He's trying to control information - not the trainer, not the training - information.

It's a mistake, to be sure...again, this isn't the way to go about things - if nothing else, they should all be conspiring to provide more information, not less. But it's about information and rumor, despite the fact that he's clearly not doing himself (or the buzz around Rachel) any favors.

[joanied]

See, again, I'm absolutely NOT condoning how this game's being played (the connection thing is exhausting), but the leap you're making - Steve can't talk to media so Jess is training her - is such a jump, it's kinda painful to read. :D

A bookeeper tells the military engineer that he can't talk about building a jet fighter, so the bookeeper must be building the plane...?

Notice how every little thing anyone - Steve, Jess, Dominic, Blasi, Haskin, Novak, clockers, grooms, bystanders, people driving by on the freeway - says about Rachel (or Zenyatta, or MtB just a short time ago, or Curlin, or whoever) is hyperscrutinized and overanalyzed word-for-word: looks like the only way Jess Jackson knows how to handle that is to close down the information gates. Is this appropriate? Well, not at all...best way to control information is to provide it, not to let it come from everywhere else. He's trying to control information - not the trainer, not the training - information.

It's a mistake, to be sure...again, this isn't the way to go about things - if nothing else, they should all be conspiring to provide more information, not less. But it's about information and rumor, despite the fact that he's clearly not doing himself (or the buzz around Rachel) any favors.

Indeed it is a mistake for Jackson to keep so quiet about Rachel...especially after last year, when he seemed to have something to say nearly everyday...he is the one that says he's a sportsman, is willing to take chances, and sings her praises from the rooftops...now all of a sudden he remains quiet and won't allow her trainer to say anything either...with that, comes all sorts of speculation from everyone on the outside looking in...human nature, I guess. He's controling information alright...to the point that he has everyone else playing guessing games. Strange behavior from a man like him.

I was joking (used the little laughing guy) about JJ training her now...but ya gotta admit...anything is possible:D ...sorry. But I don't mean that Jackson has literally taken over her training...that would be silly, but some owners interfere too much with their trainers, we all know that to be true...that's all I was trying to say, in a light hearted manner.

We are all guilty of over scrutinizing/over analyzing...it's the nature of the beast...I am sure you can agree with that :)

[Valuist]

RA at least has still run well. Lady's Secret had some very weird races in her last year of racing.

[joanied]

RA at least has still run well. Lady's Secret had some very weird races in her last year of racing.

Yeah...Rachel was only beaten anout a length with both races combines...maybe not even that much...I think she'll be Ok and win on Staurday...it was a shame that they continued to race Lady's Secret...she deserved better...what a race mare she was!

[Valuist]

Yeah...Rachel was only beaten anout a length with both races combines...maybe not even that much...I think she'll be Ok and win on Staurday...it was a shame that they continued to race Lady's Secret...she deserved better...what a race mare she was!

One of the all time greats. Was it 1986 where she went bad or 87?

[Hanover1]

As a horseman and a fan, I have nothing bad to say about any camp regarding what we bandy about of late. I do take issue with the perceptions of the quoted article however. Do any of you guys/dolls have any idea just how much pressure (on a daily basis) there is to campaigning a top level horse? Any idea how hard it is to please some owners? (never mind the fans/bettors for a moment...) Jackson is probably feeling some of the heat, as Steve is, at this time. Makes you want to just flip a switch and make it go away sometimes. End the second guessing, speculation, fingerpointing, and rumors that swirl around these big horses all the time. Been there-done that. Not everyone has the Baffert like approach with media and fans. (Once saw Baffert call a reporter a prick...). It gets old after awhile. Can't go anywhere in town or out, without the same tired questions, and the occasional rude comment or accusation.
This appears to be crowd control folks. The attention takes away from mental energys best spent doing other things. They have probably been at odds over issues of late (JJ_Steve), and its time out for now. Usually comments like those quoted in the article usually are followed by action of some sort, for better or worse. Hope she goes out and looks sharp next out, or the gag order will be just the beginning.

[WinterTriangle]

They have probably been at odds over issues of late (JJ_Steve)

And it shows. One wants to think that owner/trainer are on the same page, at least, that seems to make for a successful team? I think people start to conjecture otherwise.

Hope she goes out and looks sharp next out, or the gag order will be just the beginning.

I believe RA will win this. I hope she does it easily.

If not, it won't be the beginning, it will be the end, IMHO.

[only11]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Rachel's first two Beyers comparable to her first two from last year?
yep,,,but she won both races...big difference

[joanied]

One of the all time greats. Was it 1986 where she went bad or 87?

Would have to look that up. Regardless...sad ending to a great mares career.

[joanied]

I can't see her getting beat today...she's been training like a monster...if she gets beat, something must be wrong...but if her works are indication, sh'e back and should win this easy.
I can't wait:jump:

[Stillriledup]

;) She's back!

[cpitt84]

awesome race!!! i am so glad to see her back