Fleur di Lis a smart move..... [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

rgustafson

06-09-2010, 02:56 PM

Ok, either three or four others to face Rachel. It looks like Made For Magic. one of the "tomato cans" that Zenyatta beat back in the Grade I Santa Margarita at Santa Anita back in March and now coming off a Grade II win in the Milady at Hollywood last out could provide the biggest competition, assuming she takes to the dirt at Churchill.

LottaKash

06-09-2010, 03:25 PM

.

HoHum (yawning)

best,

Pick6

06-09-2010, 03:25 PM

Lock this one up for RA.

rgustafson

06-09-2010, 04:00 PM

Gets her over the surface at a distance, answering any questions come BC time regarding this. Should be soft enough spot to produce awaited results as well.

She has already been over the surface at this diatance and a win against this field will provide no answers to any questions as regards the Breeders Cup, unless of course, the plan is to face fillies and mares that day rather than go in the classic.:D

joanied

06-09-2010, 04:42 PM

This time, she'll win...and the critics will come out in droves ;)

WinterTriangle

06-09-2010, 04:57 PM

5 horse field (as drawn):

Multipass
Made for Magic
Distinctive Dixie
Rachel Alexandra
Jessica is Back (cross entered in the Obeah)

yawn is right.

That's okay though, I already said Rachel needs to be placed where she can win, to build her confidence and get her head back into the game, so I'll be rooting for her, big time, to do just that. :jump:

She has already been over the surface at this diatance and a win against this field will provide no answers to any questions as regards the Breeders Cup

Agree, but why not just give her the opportunity to win a few races under her belt and get back into the game before we jump ahead to the BC.......seems premature to me thinking about it now?

joanied

06-09-2010, 05:16 PM

The BC is like 5 months away...I agree, way too soon to think about it.

It sure isn't Rachel's fault, or her connections for that matter, that just these few fillies are entered against her...you would think a few more trainers would be willing to step up...are they all chicken $hit or what?
Or, is it that they've been watching her in the mornings and beleive she is really back now?

She needs to win...and if she does, she will know it...IMO, they screwed around with her so much since last Sept., she just was not in her right place anymore...not happy, and probably confused that so much in her life had changed...Calvin gets her to the winner's circle and IMO, she's gonna be right back to her form.
I'll be yelling my heart out for her on Saturday:jump:

Hanover1

06-09-2010, 05:24 PM

She has already been over the surface at this diatance and a win against this field will provide no answers to any questions as regards the Breeders Cup, unless of course, the plan is to face fillies and mares that day rather than go in the classic.:D
She needs another one....next out. Can't get enough starts on a surface you point towards. Considering all the coddling going on these days with several horses i.e. 4-5 starts a year, its time. When are folks going to get tired of these short fields?

only11

06-09-2010, 05:40 PM

hey cj wheres the pic of the tomato cans

rgustafson

06-09-2010, 05:54 PM

I think my reply to Hanover1 was somewhst misconstrued. I agree completely that this was the right race to go in. She has been at Churchill for some time now and has trained very well over the track recently. Silly to ship out of town. The choice of the Foster against males could have resulted in the final nail in the coffin as I believe Battle Plan would have eaten her up on the front end.

joanied

06-09-2010, 06:16 PM

She needs another one....next out. Can't get enough starts on a surface you point towards. Considering all the coddling going on these days with several horses i.e. 4-5 starts a year, its time. When are folks going to get tired of these short fields?

I think one reason for short fields is that trainers/owners these days consider themselves 'sportsmen', but that is BS if you consider all the shipping they do...not to face competition, but to avoid it. It sucks!

Hanover1

06-09-2010, 06:22 PM

Everybody in is guaranteed a check.......Fella could almost make a living chasing some of these.

kenwoodall2

06-09-2010, 07:25 PM

Tom

06-09-2010, 10:05 PM

hey cj wheres the pic of the tomato cans

This race might be her recipe for success. :D

xfile

06-10-2010, 12:53 AM

my favorite Fleur di Lis
http://www.fullcardreports.com/images208/FleurDeLisTatuajeCigars.png

PaceAdvantage

06-10-2010, 10:28 PM

hey cj wheres the pic of the tomato cansZenyatta is talked about as one of the best of all time (certainly talked about as one of the best females of all time)...you don't hear that kind of talk about Rachel since she lost her first two...

Thus, the tomato can reference is much more suited to Zenyatta...

PaceAdvantage

06-10-2010, 10:29 PM

Man these threads degenerate faster than ever...guy posts a picture of a Fleur di Lis???? WTF is going on around here?

06-11-2010, 12:03 AM

hey cj wheres the pic of the tomato cans

This is so easy...Rachel has lost twice and not run particularly well compared to her form last year. She should be running in spots she can win.

That said, this field of 5 is still just as strong or stronger than anything the other filly has faced all year, and that includes the Vanity. St. Trinian's is way overrated as was shown in the Big Cap and will be again Sunday.

Sericm

06-11-2010, 12:48 AM

This is so easy...Rachel has lost twice and not run particularly well compared to her form last year. She should be running in spots she can win.

That said, this field of 5 is still just as strong or stronger than anything the other filly has faced all year, and that includes the Vanity. St. Trinian's is way overrated as was shown in the Big Cap and will be again Sunday.

Why do you think Made for Magic is in Kentucky instead of California?
BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT HER TO LOSE TO ZENYATTA AGAIN!!!!
And guaranteed MFM will Beat RA.

Sericm:jump:

06-11-2010, 12:51 AM

Why do you think Made for Magic is in Kentucky instead of California?
BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT HER TO LOSE TO ZENYATTA AGAIN!!!!
And guaranteed MFM will Beat RA.

Sericm:jump:

Maybe she will. She won't be the first horse made to look mediocre on synthetics that actually had some ability. Highly unlikely though...she is a tomato can.

How much you want to put on that guarantee?

thaskalos

06-11-2010, 12:52 AM

This is so easy...Rachel has lost twice and not run particularly well compared to her form last year. She should be running in spots she can win.
Cj...are you admitting that it's only in spots like THIS that Rachel can win?

06-11-2010, 12:55 AM

Cj...are you admitting that it's only in spots like THIS that Rachel can win?

This year, maybe, who knows really? I certainly wouldn't have thrown her in the Foster with the form she has shown thus far, would you? That is a Wayne Lukas move.

I expect this will be much better 3rd of the LONG layoff. I just laugh when people somehow try to use her first two races this year as a barometer of her ability last year. It is like saying Lady's Secret sucked because she bolted at the end of her career and could only win a few allowance races towards the end.

thaskalos

06-11-2010, 01:02 AM

This year, maybe, who knows really? I certainly wouldn't have thrown her in the Foster with the form she has shown thus far, would you? That is a Wayne Lukas move.

I expect this will be much better 3rd of the LONG layoff. I just laugh when people somehow try to use her first two races this year as a barometer of her ability last year. It is like saying Lady's Secret sucked because she bolted at the end of her career and could only win a few allowance races towards the end. Agreed...my question is this:

In your opinion...if Rachel loses again, or is unimpressive in victory, as far as improvement over her last two races is concerned...where does she go from here? Do you think retirement is a possibility?

PaceAdvantage

06-11-2010, 01:02 AM

...are you admitting... :lol: Why so serious? :lol:

06-11-2010, 01:06 AM

Agreed...my question is this:

In your opinion...if Rachel loses again, or is unimpressive in victory, as far as improvement over her last two races is concerned...where does she go from here? Do you think retirement is a possibility?

Unlike others (Ghostflapper, Kis-Z's-ass), I try to answer questions when I have an opinion rather than deflect. In this case, I have no idea mostly because I won't care. If she runs well and appears back in top form I'll be glad for racing.

thaskalos

06-11-2010, 01:07 AM

:lol: Why so serious? :lol: I am serious because my jokes are sometimes taken the wrong way...;)

thaskalos

06-11-2010, 01:17 AM

Unlike others (Ghostflapper, Kis-Z's-ass), I try to answer questions when I have an opinion rather than deflect. In this case, I have no idea mostly because I won't care. If she runs well and appears back in top form I'll be glad for racing. Your opinions are greatly appreciated!

I only wish you hadn't made that crack about the Zenyatta fans being inferior handicappers...

WinterTriangle

06-11-2010, 03:01 AM

I just laugh when people somehow try to use her first two races this year as a barometer of her ability last year.

I will agree with that.

It makes no sense.

I think there are a number of people out there who like both rachel and zenyatta. Most do, actually.

I think it is the connections that people are siding with or against.

After all, Zen and Rachel, the horses, don't have any control over where they race, what races they go in, how often they race, or what kind of vacation they get.

Unfortunately. ;)

WinterTriangle

06-11-2010, 04:32 AM

That said, this field of 5 is still just as strong or stronger than anything the other filly has faced all year, and that includes the Vanity.

I guess i"m not keeping up with filly races, CJ.

Who's the strong one in the Fleur de Lis? the 2nd favorite is Jessica is Back---she's coming off a runner up in a G-3 race. Lifetime win rate of about 26%.

Made for Magic ran 5th and 6th to Zenyatta, and 7th to Zardana in the past. It appears they are shipping her clear across the country instead of letting her run against Zardana and Zenyatta again and she's 10-1 M/L? She has about a 24% win rate.

they are stronger than Zardana and St. Trinians?

Jasonm921

06-11-2010, 08:50 AM

This is what's going to happen. Rachel (who by reports has been slimming down) will romp in this over matched field. She will also beat the Stephen Foster time by 2/5's of a second, providing more fuel that she is back. Just my worthless foreshadowing of what may happen.

gm10

06-11-2010, 08:55 AM

hey cj wheres the pic of the tomato cans

he's looking for little tins of tomato puree but can't find any on google images

gm10

06-11-2010, 09:06 AM

This is so easy...Rachel has lost twice and not run particularly well compared to her form last year. She should be running in spots she can win.

That said, this field of 5 is still just as strong or stronger than anything the other filly has faced all year, and that includes the Vanity. St. Trinian's is way overrated as was shown in the Big Cap and will be again Sunday.

BS. The only reason why you post nonsense like this is because then you can't be wrong afterwards.
Who will win and who will lose?

06-11-2010, 11:12 AM

Jessica Is Back is much better than any horse Zenyatta has faced this year.

06-11-2010, 11:13 AM

BS. The only reason why you post nonsense like this is because then you can't be wrong afterwards.
Who will win and who will lose?

I wouldn't bet a nickel on either one of these races.

gm10

06-11-2010, 01:17 PM

Jessica Is Back is much better than any horse Zenyatta has faced this year.

If only a three-legged donkey showed up, you'd still claim that it's better than what Zenyatta beat. You are simply not objective.

And again, you don't seem to have the guts to post any predictions.

06-11-2010, 03:58 PM

And again, you don't seem to have the guts to post any predictions.

I've been here a long time. I already posted why I rarely post selections. It isn't fair to my many happy customers to give out selections based on the figures for which they pay good money.

I have given selections out in the past. Try the search function here. You'll find plenty of reading material.

PaceAdvantage

06-12-2010, 03:11 AM

And again, you don't seem to have the guts to post any predictions.Speaking of gutless, have you gotten around to actually posting selections BEFORE the races go off? Or are you still posting the full card selections AFTER half the card has actually gone official? :lol:

Hanover1

06-12-2010, 02:37 PM

BS. The only reason why you post nonsense like this is because then you can't be wrong afterwards.
Who will win and who will lose?
Ever try to bait me into giving you a pick, (pretty lame...) I will gladly hit you with a tomato can........

gm10

06-12-2010, 03:36 PM

Speaking of gutless, have you gotten around to actually posting selections BEFORE the races go off? Or are you still posting the full card selections AFTER half the card has actually gone official? :lol:

I was traveling. I put out odds on every horse in every horse. I am certainly not going to be scared off by a mechanical beyer system, that I guarantee you.

And I've even started a post about how RA would peak in her next race.
Of course Zenyatta will win as well. If she doesn't, it's because she is having some issues. But I don't think she is.

gm10

06-12-2010, 03:38 PM

Ever try to bait me into giving you a pick, (pretty lame...) I will gladly hit you with a tomato can........

Which brand are they? Zardana?

gm10

06-12-2010, 03:39 PM

I've been here a long time. I already posted why I rarely post selections. It isn't fair to my many happy customers to give out selections based on the figures for which they pay good money.

I have given selections out in the past. Try the search function here. You'll find plenty of reading material.

Your customers pay you for hearing your opinion on whether RA is going to win or not? That is a good business - I must admit.

Kimsus

06-12-2010, 04:01 PM

Jessica Is Back is much better than any horse Zenyatta has faced this year.

This coming from the great CJ? Man you are so lost when the discussion involves Zenyatta. This is the only way to explain this insanity. What did you base it on beyers or your speed figs? The horse is an ungraded stks winner in atleast her last 10 starts she couldn't even win the sixty sails at Haw.

PaceAdvantage

06-12-2010, 04:43 PM

This coming from the great CJ? Man you are so lost when the discussion involves Zenyatta. This is the only way to explain this insanity. What did you base it on beyers or your speed figs? The horse is an ungraded stks winner in atleast her last 10 starts she couldn't even win the sixty sails at Haw.I agree with CJ...RA made her look less than ordinary today...I'm thinking JIB didn't handle the surface too well, for starters...

Kimsus...king of after-the-fact handicapping?

06-12-2010, 04:43 PM

Your customers pay you for hearing your opinion on whether RA is going to win or not? That is a good business - I must admit.

I gave my opinion on RA multiple times on this forum. I've said I expected a big race from her third off the layoff. It isn't like I was going to bet on her, so what am I supposed to say? I certainly didn't bet a nickle against her either. Why would I when I expect a big race from a 1 to 9 shot. I said it in this very thread. I guess, somehow, you think your constantly wrong opinions are entitled to personal answers from me. That isn't going to happen.

Feel free, again, to use the search function. I posted as much here 5 or 6 times and was even ridiculed about it.

Kismus, as for the Jessica is Back post, what horses has Z beaten this year that are better than her? Rather than just making asinine comments, why not list a few if you disagree?

gm10

06-12-2010, 05:07 PM

I gave my opinion on RA multiple times on this forum. I've said I expected a big race from her third off the layoff. It isn't like I was going to bet on her, so what am I supposed to say? I certainly didn't bet a nickle against her either. Why would I when I expect a big race from a 1 to 9 shot. I said it in this very thread. I guess, somehow, you think your constantly wrong opinions are entitled to personal answers from me. That isn't going to happen.

Feel free, again, to use the search function. I posted as much here 5 or 6 times and was even ridiculed about it.

Kismus, as for the Jessica is Back post, what horses has Z beaten this year that are better than her? Rather than just making asinine comments, why not list a few if you disagree?

Simple question: will Zenyatta win or not?

06-12-2010, 05:12 PM

Simple question: will Zenyatta win or not?

Yes. Will I bet her? Of course not. I think the others are a cut below, and that includes St. T.

That is the last question I think I will answer from you. You like to debate, get proven wrong, then pretend it didn't happen. There is no way you haven't seen me post I thought Rachel would run big today, yet you continue to pretend like you didn't, and then ignore my response when I point it out.

Hanover1

06-12-2010, 05:35 PM

Yes. Will I bet her? Of course not. I think the others are a cut below, and that includes St. T.

That is the last question I think I will answer from you. You like to debate, get proven wrong, then pretend it didn't happen. There is no way you haven't seen me post I thought Rachel would run big today, yet you continue to pretend like you didn't, and then ignore my response when I point it out.

Most of us agreed that 3rd out was the litmus test, excepting those that say shes cooked. You were there every step of the way.......between you and me however, a blowout such as today really is not like she was hooked for a 1/2 under duress. Jury still out imo...but desire to advance when asked has been answered.

Jasonm921

06-12-2010, 06:06 PM

joanied

06-12-2010, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Jasonm921
This is what's going to happen. Rachel (who by reports has been slimming down) will romp in this over matched field. She will also beat the Stephen Foster time by 2/5's of a second, providing more fuel that she is back. Just my worthless foreshadowing of what may happen.

Don't want to toot my own horn but ......

Go ahead and toot all you want...great call:ThmbUp:

cpitt84

06-12-2010, 06:11 PM

Don't want to toot my own horn but ......

Amazing call! ;)

Bullet Plane

06-12-2010, 06:19 PM

Jason,

Very good call!

thaskalos

06-12-2010, 06:30 PM

I agree with CJ... Surprise, surprise...

PaceAdvantage

06-12-2010, 06:35 PM

Surprise, surprise...Seriously? This is what you've been reduced to?

thaskalos

06-12-2010, 06:40 PM

Seriously? This is what you've been reduced to? It's a hectic day...no time for more...

Jasonm921

06-12-2010, 07:51 PM

Lol, thanks Joenied. Ihave some shots of the feature at Belmont from today on my site. This pletcher horse looks like a serious contender.

born2ride

06-12-2010, 10:47 PM

Why do you think Made for Magic is in Kentucky instead of California?
BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT HER TO LOSE TO ZENYATTA AGAIN!!!!
And guaranteed MFM will Beat RA.

Sericm:jump:

Guaranteed huh. I should've taken that bet. :lol:

born2ride

06-12-2010, 10:52 PM

Don't want to toot my own horn but ......

Well you underestimated Rachel beating the Foster winner by 1/5 of a second. Still, damn good prediction though!

Kimsus

06-12-2010, 10:52 PM

I agree with CJ...RA made her look less than ordinary today...I'm thinking JIB didn't handle the surface too well, for starters...

Kimsus...king of after-the-fact handicapping?

Umm...yep just a ungraded 6yr old minor stakes winner. Yep I guess you got me I am an after fact handicapper. The only people that thought this horse had a chance today were the wiseguy's that bet her, but since I am obviously a after the fact handicapper I guess I can say this.

06-12-2010, 11:05 PM

Umm...yep just a ungraded 6yr old minor stakes winner. Yep I guess you got me I am an after fact handicapper. The only people that thought this horse had a chance today were the wiseguy's that bet her, but since I am obviously a after the fact handicapper I guess I can say this.

Who are the horses Z beat this year that are better? I never thought she would win (JIB), but I knew she would make RA work early...nothing more. She did, she ran much faster early than older males in the Foster.

cpitt84

06-12-2010, 11:07 PM

Lol, thanks Joenied. Ihave some shots of the feature at Belmont from today on my site. This pletcher horse looks like a serious contender.

any idea on what the vanity will look like? will zen win? ;)

Hanover1

06-12-2010, 11:22 PM

any idea on what the vanity will look like? will zen win? ;)
Lacking alot of traffic, all she has to do is fire again....throw a swift last 1/4, and its a Kodak moment.

PaceAdvantage

06-13-2010, 03:48 AM

I never thought she would win (JIB), but I knew she would make RA work early...nothing more.And this is why CJ would be :1: on the RA handicapping team. I actually thought JIB had a shot...

Of course, being a card carrying member of the RA groupie club, shouldn't I have bet my life's savings on Rachel? :lol:

These Rachel bashers have me so confused as to what I should do and think when it comes to this particular filly... :lol:

gm10

06-13-2010, 03:54 AM

Yes. Will I bet her? Of course not. I think the others are a cut below, and that includes St. T.

That is the last question I think I will answer from you. You like to debate, get proven wrong, then pretend it didn't happen. There is no way you haven't seen me post I thought Rachel would run big today, yet you continue to pretend like you didn't, and then ignore my response when I point it out.

Proven wrong? When was i proven wrong? I had not seen any of your posts yesterday. All I had seen was your posts how the FDL field was better than the Vanity which yourself must admit is a bit of a ludicrous statement.

But OK - so you're taking a stand before the race, albeit only this one time. I agree, I think Zenyatta will win.