Blind Luck runs 2nd - Martin on fire !

[cuzimahustler]

Slow fractions probably caused BL the race. Huge weekend for Martin.

[only11]

Slow fractions probably caused BL the race. Huge weekend for Martin.
she always runs into slow fractions..

[andymays]

They went 50 at the half I believe.

[letswastemoney]

Switch has decent beyers. Not too surprising.

[andymays]

The ride won the race.

[Igeteven]

Slow fractions probably caused BL the race. Huge weekend for Martin.

I blame the jockey with the size 3 hat, run the fractions to the horse not the other jockeys to keep pace.

Could have won hands down.

[cj]

Blind Luck is better on dirt.

[Show Me the Wire]

Blind Luck is better on dirt.

I concur, but it was the ride and not the surface.

RB misjudged the pace and let Switch (a talented horse) get too big of a lead.

Hollendorfer has to be upset, as this is the second time RB lost, on Blind Luck, due to misjudging the pace.

[cj]

I concur, but it was the ride and not the surface.

RB misjudged the pace and let Switch (a talented horse) get too big of a lead.

Hollendorfer has to be upset, as this is the second time RB lost, on Blind Luck, due to misjudging the pace.

It is easy to misjudge the pace when there in none. The pace is either slow, slower, or dead.

[FEARTHECHOMP]

It is easy to misjudge the pace when there in none. The pace is either slow, slower, or dead.

Blind man could have seen Blind lick is 10 lengths better on dirt....Didnt stop people from betting millions on her..

Not me...

[rwwupl]

It is easy to misjudge the pace when there in none. The pace is either slow, slower, or dead.


Short fields are more Jockey races than Horse races...unless you know what is in the minds of the men... Traditional handicapping does not apply.

The core customers do not like it ,and they have left California. Hollywood and California are putting on,for the most part very poor cards.

[Show Me the Wire]

It is easy to misjudge the pace when there in none. The pace is either slow, slower, or dead.


Not so sure I agree. Switch's Jock did a masterful job.

[cj]

Short fields are more Jockey races than Horse races...unless you know what is in the minds of the men... Traditional handicapping does not apply.

The core customers do not like it ,and they have left California. Hollywood and California are putting on,for the most part very poor cards.

No doubt, but the surface also has a lot to do with it. The average pace on rubber in routes averages more than a full second slower to the 6f call than the tracks did when they had dirt.

[Show Me the Wire]

Short fields are more Jockey races than Horse races...unless you know what is in the minds of the men... Traditional handicapping does not apply.

The core customers do not like it ,and they have left California. Hollywood and California are putting on,for the most part very poor cards.


Cali or not, I wouldn't bet a 3/5 in any short field unless it was the speed of the speed.

[Show Me the Wire]

No doubt, but the surface also has a lot to do with it. The average pace on rubber in routes averages more than a full second slower to the 6f call than the tracks did when they had dirt.


So what. You don't think the jocks know this and adjust accordingly?

[rwwupl]

Cali or not, I wouldn't bet a 3/5 in any short field unless it was the speed of the speed.




Pace makes the race, and the pace in short fields is whatever the Jockey dictates...and therefore unpredictable...making near all of them,Jockey races.

[Igeteven]

Cali or not, I wouldn't bet a 3/5 in any short field unless it was the speed of the speed.


Let me explain, they pull the horse to the back , there is so much garbage going on at HP, I can't explain it any more, I just quit this track because of short field and garbage like that, The only people left are the owners, trainers and hard core players.

As to new players, they see this and lose, they never come back.


Next week , I am going, however, I am bring my laptop and playing Churchill downs and skip HP,

[Show Me the Wire]

Pace makes the race, and the pace in short fields is whatever the Jockey dictates...and therefore unpredictable...making near all of them,Jockey races.

I don't disagree.

Short fields are a national problem, except for MTH, not just a Cali problem.

[cj]

So what. You don't think the jocks know this and adjust accordingly?

They might know it, but they obviously don't adjust well. I'm not really that sure the pace beat Blind Luck as much as the surface did, but the pace didn't help.

[Audioslavery]

Absolutely awful ride, RB has no idea how to ride this horse. He hasn't put together many well constructed rides for this filly.

She was still 100x the best horse of the field, regardless of who trained well this week.

[cuzimahustler]

Next week , I am going, however, I am bring my laptop and playing Churchill downs and skip HP,

sure you are... :rolleyes:

[Spalding No!]

Absolutely awful ride, RB has no idea how to ride this horse. He hasn't put together many well constructed rides for this filly.

She was still 100x the best horse of the field, regardless of who trained well this week.

In what way could Bejarano ride her different?

In none of her 11 starts has she been in contention before the stretch call.

Maybe if Hollendorfer keeps whining enough about wishing she'd lay closer after each of her losses or close calls, he'll realize that maybe he can take the initiative and try and inject some speed into her during training hours instead of thinking that Bejarano will magically be able to do it after they break from the gate race after race.

As it stands, she's the division leader and is if nothing else consistent, but if it weren't for some timely breakdowns (eg Mi Sueno) and questionable campaigning (eg Devil May Care) this filly probably wouldn't have the lofty reputation she seems to command.

[Igeteven]

sure you are... :rolleyes:

I be at the track next week due to a Hanna meeting, lets see :cool:

[Mr. Nobody]

Hollywood is much more speed favoring than Santa Anita. 48% of 8.5 furlong races at HOL have been won wire to wire vs. 22% for the same trip at SA.

[rwwupl]

Absolutely awful ride, RB has no idea how to ride this horse. He hasn't put together many well constructed rides for this filly.

She was still 100x the best horse of the field, regardless of who trained well this week.



Hollywood Oaks Stakes,Grade 2, $150,000, 3YO Fillies (5 horses)

Run up 80 feet... Fractional times..25.30,- 50.11,- 114.50,- 138.1,- 144.54(final)


How do you close into those fractions? in a full field,if you tried that you would get run over by a $10,000 claimer.

What did it prove ? Nothing. Jockey race...of course. Most of us prefer HORSE Races. Strap a monkey on their back and you would have true results and have a horse race.

$150 Grand to prove what?

[classhandicapper]

I think Switch is developing into a pretty nice filly. IMO The Railbird Stakes was an above average quality Grade 3. So with a good jump on Blind Luck in a slow paced race, it doesn't shock me she held her off. She ran her to 1/2 length previously. Blind Luck ran the last 3/16ths in 28.98 just to get second. She ran well in defeat.

[rwwupl]

I think Switch is developing into a pretty nice filly. IMO The Railbird Stakes was an above average quality Grade 3. So with a good jump on Blind Luck in a slow paced race, it doesn't shock me she held her off. She ran her to 1/2 length previously. Blind Luck ran the last 3/16ths in 28.98 just to get second. She ran well in defeat.


She ran great ...in defeat. could Secretariat have run faster the last 3/16ths than 28.98 in closing? I do not think so. It was a Jockey controlled race that denied the best horse victory, that would not have been possible had it been a full field...yes ,it is O.K. with the rules and happens too often lately. It is much more difficult to control the pace with a full field and is a rare happening.

It is also a betting game, and small fields force the bettors to depend on the stategy of the connections more than usual and not the current condition or ability of the horse. It is hard to bet on what you think is in the mind of a man. Traditional handicapping, more and more is a losers game in these poor conditions.

So hooray... the best horse got beat again and we might even get a carryover for tomorrow...That is not what I want the sport to be and I do not think Seabiscuit would be proud either,for $150,000

If you can not have at least an 8 horse field, why "race" at all.

[Show Me the Wire]

rwwupl:

A bit off-topic as to Blind Luck, but related to your statement regarding the demise of traditional handicapping. How does someone like Mike Mitchell factor in?

Claims a horse (New Bay) from R. Mandella for 50k, which has been totally off form since 12/26/09. New Bay's first start off the claim for Mitchell is a rise in class and results in a huge win. A tremendous form reversal, for the horse, in about a month and a half's time.

I think the Mitchell scenario has more impact upon the demise of traditional handicapping, than pace scenarios of 5 horse fields.

What is your opinion?

[rwwupl]

We have to be careful without all the facts...But any reasoned man knows that it takes more than a pat on the butt to have an animal improve dramatically overnight. Richard Mandella is a fine trainer...makes him look like he missed something...I do not think so.

The perception is as powerful as reality as to integrity issues... and I do not see the Regulators or Managers doing anything about changing the perception of the public view .

In my view ,they are failing a task that could be done with some effort,and that is part of their mission.

[Spalding No!]

We have to be careful without all the facts...But any reasoned man knows that it takes more than a pat on the butt to have an animal improve dramatically overnight. Richard Mandella is a fine trainer...makes him look like he missed something...I do not think so.

Doug O'Neill also got former Mandella 2yo prospect Kanan Dume (out of the good French mare Trishyde) to win a two-turn allowance a few days ago.

[Show Me the Wire]

Doug O'Neill also got former Mandella 2yo prospect Kanan Dume (out of the good French mare Trishyde) to win a two-turn allowance a few days ago.

Entirely different scenarios. O"Neill claimed a lightly raced horse, from Mandella, off a claiming win and O'Neill won the allowance after having the horse in his barn for three months and three prior races to the winning effort.

[BlueShoe]

Blind Luck was the second favorite to lose yesterday at Hollypark because of a soft pace and a misjudged ride. In the 5th, at 7f, the 7-5 chalk, Bestdressed, sat a casual last, 10 lengths off of slow splits of 23 3/5, 46. Like BL, came running late to get second. Yes, this gelding is a late running sprinter, but in the past had been that close to much faster fractions, usually against better. Bit of grumbling from several patrons at the otb site was at.

[Show Me the Wire]

Blind Luck was the second favorite to lose yesterday at Hollypark because of a soft pace and a misjudged ride. In the 5th, at 7f, the 7-5 chalk, Bestdressed, sat a casual last, 10 lengths off of slow splits of 23 3/5, 46. Like BL, came running late to get second. Yes, this gelding is a late running sprinter, but in the past had been that close to much faster fractions, usually against better. Bit of grumbling from several patrons at the otb site was at.


Which really makes RB's ride of Blind Luck even more baffling as precedent had been set.

[andymays]

If you push a closer early and don't let the horse settle into stride then the closer usually doesn't have the same kick.

Blind Luck was screwed after the first quarter. I bet the winner but I expected her to go straight to the lead and keep going. I was surprised at the tactics but they were right to ride the winner that way and Garcia did a masterful job getting her to relax and kick at the right time.

[Show Me the Wire]

If you push a closer early and don't let the horse settle into stride then the closer usually doesn't have the same kick.

Blind Luck was screwed after the first quarter. I bet the winner but I expected her to go straight to the lead and keep going. I was surprised at the tactics but they were right to ride the winner that way and Garcia did a masterful job getting her to relax and kick at the right time.


You didn't have to push her into those slow fractions. Her normal race would have put her closer to Switch. RB only needed to keep closer contact to Switch, so not to run out of ground.

Bad ride by RB and unfortunately not the first time on this filly.

Also, I was surprised by Switch's style. Switch in her previous races pulled, but not yesterday.

[andymays]

You didn't have to push her into those slow fractions. Her normal race would have put her closer to Switch. RB only needed to keep closer contact to Switch, so not to run out of ground.

Bad ride by RB and unfortunately not the first time on this filly.

Also, I was surprised by Switch's style. Switch in her previous races pulled, but not yesterday.


You can credit Martin Garcia for getting her to relax. He is a jockey who is improving and gaining confidence with each passing day. It was a masterful ride. :ThmbUp:

[cj]

You didn't have to push her into those slow fractions. Her normal race would have put her closer to Switch. RB only needed to keep closer contact to Switch, so not to run out of ground.

Bad ride by RB and unfortunately not the first time on this filly.

Also, I was surprised by Switch's style. Switch in her previous races pulled, but not yesterday.

Are you saying he put a stranglehold on her?

[Spalding No!]

Entirely different scenarios. O"Neill claimed a lightly raced horse, from Mandella, off a claiming win and O'Neill won the allowance after having the horse in his barn for three months and three prior races to the winning effort.

Well, now that we're getting picky:

You claim that New Bay's win in an optional claimer, for which he was entered for the $62.5k tag, was some massive rise in class and form reversal from a straight $50k claimer.

Note that his previous 2 races were on the turf. In the first of these, he faced subsequent Grade 1-placed MGSW Mr. Gruff, as well as veteran stakes winners Kelly Leak, Tres Borrachos, and Peace Chant (coincidentally another Mandella cast off that subsequently won stakes).

In his last start (also on turf) he faced another MGSW Get Funky, as well as seasoned former stakes runners like Machismo, Global Heat, Ron Bob And Dave, Winsome Charm, and On The Virg.

Yesterday's race was 7f on the main track. Skip over his last couple of turf starts, his previous main track race was the Grade 1 Malibu at Santa Anita. Before that was a 7f allowance race. He won.

[Show Me the Wire]

Well, now that we're getting picky:

You claim that New Bay's win in an optional claimer, for which he was entered for the $62.5k tag, was some massive rise in class and form reversal from a straight $50k claimer.

Note that his previous 2 races were on the turf. In the first of these, he faced subsequent Grade 1-placed MGSW Mr. Gruff, as well as veteran stakes winners Kelly Leak, Tres Borrachos, and Peace Chant (coincidentally another Mandella cast off that subsequently won stakes).

In his last start (also on turf) he faced another MGSW Get Funky, as well as seasoned former stakes runners like Machismo, Global Heat, Ron Bob And Dave, Winsome Charm, and On The Virg.

Yesterday's race was 7f on the main track. Skip over his last couple of turf starts, his previous main track race was the Grade 1 Malibu at Santa Anita. Before that was a 7f allowance race. He won.


As I said and you confirmed New Bay was off form since 12/26/09 descending the class ladder and losing for a 50k tag. Off the claim in a short period of time, in its first start, a complete form reversal with a rise in class. The observation is being made how such quick form reversals impact traditional handicapping and New Bay is a study of a quick form reversal.

Completely different from the O'Neill claim and improvement over 4 races and three months.

[Show Me the Wire]

Are you saying he put a stranglehold on her?

If you are talking about Blind Luck, I don't believe I said such a thing. I said he could have kept her in closer contact to the eventual winner.

If you are talking about Switch, no. I was surprised how relaxed and rateable she was in comparison to her past efforts.

[cj]

If you are talking about Blind Luck, I don't believe I said such a thing. I said he could have kept her in closer contact to the eventual winner.

If you are talking about Switch, no. I was surprised how relaxed and rateable she was in comparison to her past efforts.

You said he didn't have to push her to get closer into those slow fractions. Horses either do it on their own, are held, or are pushed. You said her normal race would put her closer. So, he either held her back or it is normal for her to just drop to the back regardless of pace on her own accord. In any case, if she wasn't held, he would have to push.

[Spalding No!]

As I said and you confirmed New Bay was off form since 12/26/09 descending the class ladder and losing for a 50k tag. Off the claim in a short period of time, in its first start, a complete form reversal with a rise in class. The observation is being made how such quick form reversals impact traditional handicapping and New Bay is a study of a quick form reversal.

Completely different from the O'Neill claim and improvement over 4 races and three months.

The suggestion was that New Bay is not a turf horse (all his starts since 12/26). In his 2 most recent main track starts he won an allowance and was unplaced in a Grade 1.

The case can be made that New Bay's form reversal was as much due to Mandella's poor spotting as it was Mike Mitchell's magic.

It's also debatable whether or not that optional claimer was really a "rise in class" from the straight $50k race.

[Market Mover]

In what way could Bejarano ride her different?

In none of her 11 starts has she been in contention before the stretch call.

Maybe if Hollendorfer keeps whining enough about wishing she'd lay closer after each of her losses or close calls, he'll realize that maybe he can take the initiative and try and inject some speed into her during training hours instead of thinking that Bejarano will magically be able to do it after they break from the gate race after race.

As it stands, she's the division leader and is if nothing else consistent, but if it weren't for some timely breakdowns (eg Mi Sueno) and questionable campaigning (eg Devil May Care) this filly probably wouldn't have the lofty reputation she seems to command.


Agreed! Hollendorfer is the trainer of this filly, and it's noone's fault other than his own that she doesn't possess the early speed to stay with the pace. If he wants her closer, then he should train her accordingly. He can call Bob Baffert up and see how to inject some speed in training sessions...

[Show Me the Wire]

You said he didn't have to push her to get closer into those slow fractions. Horses either do it on their own, are held, or are pushed. You said her normal race would put her closer. So, he either held her back or it is normal for her to just drop to the back regardless of pace on her own accord. In any case, if she wasn't held, he would have to push.

To me there is a difference between asking a horse to do a little more and pushing a horse to do something. It seems to me Blind Luck is a very ratable horse i.e. being anywhere from 1.5 lengths to 9.5 lengths from the lead at the first call and does not drop back any further at the ¾ point.

In the current race Blind Luck was 5.5 lengths off the lead at the first call and uncharacteristically fell back further to 7.5 lengths at the ¾ call. It seems in all the other races, R.B. rode he asked her to at least keep up without pushing her, which is something he didn’t do Sunday.

[David-LV]

You can credit Martin Garcia for getting her to relax. He is a jockey who is improving and gaining confidence with each passing day. It was a masterful ride. :ThmbUp:

ON TVG total access in the walking ring before the race John Sadler the trainer of Switch told Martin Garcia exactly how to ride this race.
He told Martin to be very patience but make sure you get the jump on Blind Luck. Martin rode the race exactly how Sadler drew it up with a positive result.

Great trainer, great rider who has learned very fast.

_________
David-LV

[Show Me the Wire]

The suggestion was that New Bay is not a turf horse (all his starts since 12/26). In his 2 most recent main track starts he won an allowance and was unplaced in a Grade 1.

The case can be made that New Bay's form reversal was as much due to Mandella's poor spotting as it was Mike Mitchell's magic.

It's also debatable whether or not that optional claimer was really a "rise in class" from the straight $50k race.


So that 2nd place finish on the turf, while New Bay was in sharp form, in an OC62K/n2x doesn't count. Amazing, that Mandella who trained this horse to MSW open ALW and OC 62k wins put this in-sharp form horse on the wrong surface. What was he thinking :confused:

No matter how you slice and dice it the horse was off form and dropping down the class ladder leading to the poor performance in the 50k claimer.

[Show Me the Wire]

cj:

Am I to understand your position is Blind Luck would have run down Switch if the race took place on a dirt track?

[Spalding No!]

So that 2nd place finish on the turf, while New Bay was in sharp form, in an OC62K/n2x doesn't count. Amazing, that Mandella who trained this horse to MSW open ALW and OC 62k wins put this in-sharp form horse on the wrong surface. What was he thinking :confused:

No matter how you slice and dice it the horse was off form and dropping down the class ladder leading to the poor performance in the 50k claimer.

That was some sharp form. He was 2nd, beaten open lengths (by a horse coming off a year layoff) going 6f in a 5-horse field, while never a threat to the winner.

Whatever talent he displayed in his first couple of starts was quickly derailed by overzealous campaigning in ridiculous spots such as the Robert Lewis (a Grade 2 route on the main) and the La Jolla (a Grade 2 route on the turf). Curious races for a horse that had only sprint form up to that point.

In addition, New Bay now faces horses of all ages rather than straight 3yos as he did in the winter of last season. He's a horse that perhaps could run a little, but wasn't allowed to develop being placed repeatedly over his head. Now they scramble by dropping into claiming races only to run into seasoned horses, who may not have their best stuff any longer (eg Get Funky), but certainly are a lot more accomplished than he.

Despite that, all he's done for Mitchell is win a race (by a head no less) he's already shown he can win. Were it not for the all the turf, route, and Graded races strewn about his spotty record he would have already done so. The simple return to the conditions that produced the horse's last good race was probably all that was needed to "turn him around".

If he wins the Triple Bend by 8 lengths in a track record performance next out we can start talking about dramatic improvements.

As much as you may want to invoke Richard Mandella's reputation, it should be noted that several horses have been taken from him in recent years and gone on to greater success for other trainers, especially with this type (highly touted but disappointing, questionable physical condition). That was the point of bringing up Kanan Dume.

[cj]

cj:

Am I to understand your position is Blind Luck would have run down Switch if the race took place on a dirt track?

My position is the pace would have been much more reasonable and that would have allowed her to win.

[Show Me the Wire]

My position is the pace would have been much more reasonable and that would have allowed her to win.


And why woould that be? Dirt surfaces somehoe prohibit jockeys in five horse fields to manipulate the pace?

[Show Me the Wire]

Spaulding:

The horse itself was in form and while in form ran a credible race on the turf and earned a credible BSF. It is a counterpoint to your suggestion New Bay couldn't run a credible race on turf and all he needed is a surface switch back to main track.

Now you bring up Mandella's ambitious campaign. BTW I agree with you about Mandella's overly ambitious campaigning of New Bay and the resulting souring of the horse.

Guess what happens under those circumstances? The horse goes off form, exactly what the horse did.

Usually, when a horse goes bad or soured from a poorly planned campaign, it generally takes more than a surface switch and a month and a half of training to reverse its form.

Don't misunderstand me. Mitchell being the trainer, first off the claim made this horse a contender. Almost, and I said almost under any other trainer this horse wouldn't have been, even with a switch back to the main track.

[Show Me the Wire]

And why woould that be? Dirt surfaces somehoe prohibit jockeys in five horse fields to manipulate the pace?


Should read "somehow", and not some "hoe" :lol:

[cj]

And why woould that be? Dirt surfaces somehoe prohibit jockeys in five horse fields to manipulate the pace?

The data is on my side. Even in five horse fields, the pace in dirt routes is much faster than those in synthetic routes. Field size does tend to slow the pace down, but it doesn't change the surface differences.

[Show Me the Wire]

The data is on my side. Even in five horse fields, the pace in dirt routes is much faster than those in synthetic routes. Field size does tend to slow the pace down, but it doesn't change the surface differences.

Pace on dirt maybe faster, because dirt maybe a faster surface. However, it is all relative as you confirm field size tends to slow down the pace.

Saying the surface is responsible for a mistimed ride is specualtion. There is no data indicating RB couldn't misjudge the pace on a faster surface.

[Show Me the Wire]

Too lazy to start a new thread. In the Skip Away a five horse field on the dirt, fractions are eerily similar to Blind luck's Cushion track race.

Dirt 25 2/5, 50 3/5, 1:14 1/5

Cushion 25 1/5, 50, 1:14 2/5

Seems to indicate pace in short, 5 horse, fields is influenced more by jocks than surface.

[cj]

Too lazy to start a new thread. In the Skip Away a five horse field on the dirt, fractions are eerily similar to Blind luck's Cushion track race.

Dirt 25 2/5, 50 3/5, 1:14 1/5

Cushion 25 1/5, 50, 1:14 2/5

Seems to indicate pace in short, 5 horse, fields is influenced more by jocks than surface.

So one race on each surface means it is true? Come on, you are better than that. I am not debating that smaller fields are more jockey controlled. What I am saying is it is even worse on synthetic surfaces. I have the data to back it up and will post it one Tuesday when there isn't much going on.

[Show Me the Wire]

My position is the pace would have been much more reasonable and that would have allowed her to win.


Your above quote is the point of my posting about the Skip Away's fractions.

Basically, you are saying that Blind Luck's lost is due to the surface and not RB misjudging the pace, which is the result of the surface You allude that the same creepy crawly slow controlling pace can't happen on dirt and just shows the further complications of handicapping AWS.

One recent example is all that is needed to show the same complications exist in dirt track handicapping. Blind Luck's loss can't be solely attributed to the surface or additional handicapping complications related solely to surface issues.

Her loss is due to jockey error and not surface related pace.

[cj]

Her loss is due to jockey error and not surface related pace.

I think it was both. I haven't even looked at the dirt race in question. You didn't include the final times, but that is a pretty important piece of the puzzle.

[Show Me the Wire]

I think it was both. I haven't even looked at the dirt race in question. You didn't include the final times, but that is a pretty important piece of the puzzle.


Skip Away 1:43.89


Hollywood Oaks 1:44.54


Faster final time for older males than 3 year old fillies, not surprising. Final times are meaningless in slow controlled pace sceenarios.

[classhandicapper]

I think there are a few reasons small fields tend to have slower paces and vice versa. Here's just a few.

1. By definition smaller fields tend to have fewer speed horses so the probability of a duel is lower.

2. It's much easier for everyone to get their desired position either in front, stalking, mid pack at the start when there are fewer horses trying to do the same thing.

3. The intra race moves tend to be less competitive because even after the start it's still easier to get where you want to go without using your horse a lot trying to outdo other horses trying to make the same move.

[cj]

Skip Away 1:43.89


Hollywood Oaks 1:44.54


Faster final time for older males than 3 year old fillies, not surprising. Final times are meaningless in slow controlled pace sceenarios.

Not meaningless because you can't figure out how fast the horses came home without them.

[Show Me the Wire]

Not meaningless because you can't figure out how fast the horses came home without them.

The strategy is conserve enough energy and not leave enough ground to close into no matter the come home time.