Zito speechless......

[Hanover1]

Considering that Ice Box had home field advantage, albiet no Dwyer, Zito seemed speechless after the race. Seemed stunned actually. If it was a poor ride, he would have addressed it in some manner. "Horse did'nt fire" would have been better than puzzlement? Me thinks that perhaps they may have taken a bit much out of him of late, as he admitted that the colt is a handfull around the barn, and the best way to manage a spirited horse is to work them. Outran is the excuse, but he looked terrible imo. Barely improved position thruout the race.....next few days should bring us closer to the truth, as I'm sure the vet has already been to the barn.......

[Spalding No!]

Did he at least switch leads?

[Hanover1]

Did he at least switch leads?
He was barely on camera the whole race....would like to see an isolated review before my 2 cents is worth 2 cents......

[tzipi]

Zito is always a great interview and always has alot things to say about a race afterwards but this year I agree he seemed speechless and lost. Ice Box didn't lift a foot. Tired? Too far? Who knows right now.

[sonnyp]

Did he at least switch leads?


he's a deep closer. caught a mud track in derby(ala mine that bird) looked great passing tired horses.

wind blew hard all day today turning belmont into a sandbox. they used 10,000 gallons of water trying to get and keep some moisture in it.

his poor performance doesn't require a vet...just a track more to his liking.

[Hanover1]

he's a deep closer. caught a mud track in derby(ala mine that bird) looked great passing tired horses.

wind blew hard all day today turning belmont into a sandbox. they used 10,000 gallons of water trying to get and keep some moisture in it.

his poor performance doesn't require a vet...just a track more to his liking.
I am reminded of a Lukas quote here: "Good horses run on anything".

[sonnyp]

I am reminded of a Lukas quote here: "Good horses run on anything".

i do my best to ignore you ...but even you can't be serious about this one.

different horses DEFINATELY prefer different tracks.

no real need to reply.

[Hanover1]

i do my best to ignore you ...but even you can't be serious about this one.

different horses DEFINATELY prefer different tracks.

no real need to reply.
And we saddled how many????

[Hanover1]

i do my best to ignore you ...but even you can't be serious about this one.

different horses DEFINATELY prefer different tracks.

no real need to reply.
As an afterthought....subscribing to your theory in regards to Ice Box, Zito spent 5 weeks working this colt and could not determine that he disliked the track, and entered him anyways?? The quote from Lukas was hog wash as well? Granted some horses FAVOR a surface to another, but I stand by the records of countless horses including TC winners on ALL surfaces to complete my point. Now please continue to ignore if you wish, as I am just another horseman that has been blessed with a few nice wins along the way myself. Fla Derby was a fast track, CD was muddy, showing versatility. Excuse will come soon, and it aint the track.

[OTM Al]

Deep closers do not win long races, especially when they go almost 1:15 to the 6f. He had no chance with his style. Likewise First Dude had that race handed to him and couldn't take it.

[Dahoss9698]

And we saddled how many????

You don't need to saddle any horses to realize many horses prefer a surface over another.

Ice Box threw in a clunker. It's not like he is a superstar. Just a nice 3 year old. As you should know, sometimes they just don't run.

[Hanover1]

Deep closers do not win long races, especially when they go almost 1:15 to the 6f. He had no chance with his style. Likewise First Dude had that race handed to him and couldn't take it.
A certain mare would disspell that theory. (not going there any further folks).
But to show a line like he wrote, thru the whole race? He looked outclassed, and I think hes a nicer colt than that. Could have been rank.....who knows? will be interesting to see what next week brings.

[LottaKash]

.

3-year olds....:rolleyes:

best,

[letswastemoney]

He had no pace to work with.

The pace in the Derby had Conveyence and Sidney's Candy dueling each other into submission. Of course Ice Box is going to look good!

Rule set a legitimate pace in the race before as well.

Ice Box needs the perfect set up.

[Kimsus]

He had no pace to work with.

The pace in the Derby had Conveyence and Sidney's Candy dueling each other into submission. Of course Ice Box is going to look good!

Rule set a legitimate pace in the race before as well.

Ice Box needs the perfect set up.

I don't know if I should have my head checked but I agree, the jury's still out on Ice Box.

[Hanover1]

The whole scenario does lend credence to the weak crop theory. Not a fan per se of using that term, however looking at the times posted for most all dashes to date, many would agree.

[broadreach]

Can't fathom how Ice box finished about 6-7 lengths ahead of Stately Victor in the Derby but couldn't pass that horse yesterday :confused:

[the little guy]

Considering that Ice Box had home field advantage, albiet no Dwyer, Zito seemed speechless after the race. Seemed stunned actually. If it was a poor ride, he would have addressed it in some manner. "Horse did'nt fire" would have been better than puzzlement? Me thinks that perhaps they may have taken a bit much out of him of late, as he admitted that the colt is a handfull around the barn, and the best way to manage a spirited horse is to work them. Outran is the excuse, but he looked terrible imo. Barely improved position thruout the race.....next few days should bring us closer to the truth, as I'm sure the vet has already been to the barn.......


Which Hall of Fame are you in?

[WinterTriangle]

Hanover, home field advantage for the trainer, not the horse.

Ice Box was training at SAR, wasn't he?

He's only raced over BEL once as a 2 year old and came in 4th.

Not sure if that's an advantage.

Did you see how their hooves were sinking into that track? Talk about deep.

[sonnyp]

Which Hall of Fame are you in?

he's in the bullshit hall of fame. he posts like he's lecturing a group of first time investors looking for shares in a new syndicate. expert on everything,master of nothing.

[PhantomOnTour]

Man, I was pretty much all in with Fly Down, foolishly covering him with Uptown and First Dude only. Seemed Zito was more concerned with Ice Box's flop than Fly Down's nice run. I think Zito has run 2nd in this race 7 times now.

[WinterTriangle]

I think Zito has run 2nd in this race 7 times now.

Glass half-empty view. He's won 2 in 6 years.

If Zito had won, he'd have become "the first trainer in modern history (and possibly ever) to finish first, second, and third in the Triple Crown in one year with three different horses. That is racing’s equivalent to hitting for the cycle."
(bloodhorse)

Not many have won that are still traing now? In this group, only dutrow, pletcher, zito and McLaughlin.

Zito has hit the board 25 TC races. I'd be proud of that.

[PhantomOnTour]

Glass half-empty view. He's won 2 in 6 years.

If Zito had won, he'd have become "the first trainer in modern history (and possibly ever) to finish first, second, and third in the Triple Crown in one year with three different horses. That is racing’s equivalent to hitting for the cycle."
(bloodhorse)

Not many have won that are still traing now? In this group, only dutrow, pletcher, zito and McLaughlin.

Zito has hit the board 25 TC races. I'd be proud of that.
It's not a point of view. It's a matter of fact. He either ran 2nd in this race 6-7 times or he didn't. I could be wrong about that stat, but it isn't opinion or 'point of view' based. Sometimes I don't understand you WT.

Tim Ice?

[xfile]

Zito Speechless?? What again? http://www.fullcardreports.com/images208/cbig.gif

[Hanover1]

Which Hall of Fame are you in?
Had the fortune of working with 3 (three) HOF horsemen in the past, and was assistant to all. Ran 40 head in Italy as well....winner of several stakes including Lotteria Nazionale. Won several stakes in my 20's with trotters and pacers here in states. Any further inquiry?

[Hanover1]

he's in the bullshit hall of fame. he posts like he's lecturing a group of first time investors looking for shares in a new syndicate. expert on everything,master of nothing.
I won't clutter this forum with my personal attacks on anyone....you have filled that slot well.

[FEARTHECHOMP]

Nick Zito has reported that Icebox Displaced his Pallet in yesterdays Belmont and will undergo the minor surgery to fix it...

If anyone does not know what this means it means Ice Box could not breath with his pallet obstructing his breathing when running....

[westny]

Originally Posted by Hanover1
Considering that Ice Box had home field advantage, albiet no Dwyer, Zito seemed speechless after the race. Seemed stunned actually. If it was a poor ride, he would have addressed it in some manner. "Horse did'nt fire" would have been better than puzzlement? Me thinks that perhaps they may have taken a bit much out of him of late, as he admitted that the colt is a handfull around the barn, and the best way to manage a spirited horse is to work them. Outran is the excuse, but he looked terrible imo. Barely improved position thruout the race.....next few days should bring us closer to the truth, as I'm sure the vet has already been to the barn.......




Which Hall of Fame are you in?


QUOTE=sonnyp]he's in the bullshit hall of fame. he posts like he's lecturing a group of first time investors looking for shares in a new syndicate. expert on everything,master of nothing.[/QUOTE]

Great post!

I just spit coffee on my keyboard. :lol:

[1GCFAN]

Sometimes they don't run i.e. claimer Budget who ran a bang-up second in the race following the Belmont after DNF at Belmont as favorite in his previous start on Preakness day.

[098poi]

What about the weather yesterday? I live outside Boston and it was weird weather yesterday, hot ,muggy with a few quick terrific storms in the afternoon. For anyone who was there was it the kind of day where you get drained just from being outside? On TV someone said there is a nice breeze on the track and yet I got the feeling it may have been a day when no horse was in the mood to run a mile and a half. Maybe that's why it was so slow.

[sonnyp]

Which Hall of Fame are you in?


QUOTE=sonnyp]he's in the bullshit hall of fame. he posts like he's lecturing a group of first time investors looking for shares in a new syndicate. expert on everything,master of nothing.[/QUOTE]

Great post!

I just spit coffee on my keyboard. :lol:[/QUOTE]



before you spit too much, try asking nick if that deep floundering track contributed to him flipping his pallet. he never showed any speed and then stopped like a horse who all of a sudden flipped, but rather struggled every step, laboring on a deep track which probably culminated in the entrapment.

jock never said one word about loss of momentum, noises, gurgling, roaring etc. he said he was empty every step.

[Bruddah]

What about the weather yesterday? I live outside Boston and it was weird weather yesterday, hot ,muggy with a few quick terrific storms in the afternoon. For anyone who was there was it the kind of day where you get drained just from being outside? On TV someone said there is a nice breeze on the track and yet I got the feeling it may have been a day when no horse was in the mood to run a mile and a half. Maybe that's why it was so slow.


Actually, I think it was more of a case none of them are able to run a mile and half. Especially with a competetitive time.

I wrote before the race, only the best of this crop of 3yo's could be competitive at a mile and a eigth. The rest were no better than milers. Simply, there are no Belmont types this year, not even if the Derby and Preakness winners had been in the race.

The frightening aspect of the last two years crop of thoroughbreds is some will go to stud and pass along their genes.

[Hanover1]

Nick Zito has reported that Icebox Displaced his Pallet in yesterdays Belmont and will undergo the minor surgery to fix it...

If anyone does not know what this means it means Ice Box could not breath with his pallet obstructing his breathing when running....
I suspected something was wrong....Guess that answers the question for all the "he didn't like the track" folks. :lol: Wipe that coffee off the keyboard before you suffer yet another loss.

[sonnyp]

I suspected something was wrong....Guess that answers the question for all the "he didn't like the track" folks. :lol: Wipe that coffee off the keyboard before you suffer yet another loss.




horses traveling comfortably rarely if ever flip. it happens most often when under stout restraint (he never tightened a rein) or under strong pressure or certainly floundering on a track he didn't like.

[Hanover1]

Which Hall of Fame are you in?


QUOTE=sonnyp]he's in the bullshit hall of fame. he posts like he's lecturing a group of first time investors looking for shares in a new syndicate. expert on everything,master of nothing.

Great post!

I just spit coffee on my keyboard. :lol:[/QUOTE]



before you spit too much, try asking nick if that deep floundering track contributed to him flipping his pallet. he never showed any speed and then stopped like a horse who all of a sudden flipped, but rather struggled every step, laboring on a deep track which probably culminated in the entrapment.

jock never said one word about loss of momentum, noises, gurgling, roaring etc. he said he was empty every step.[/QUOTE]
Not wanting to run on a track does not cause a horse to flip, but I don't expect you to comprehend this. Something was wrong, and it had NOTHING to do with him not liking the track. Cause was physical, as I suspected. Hows that keyboard workin for ya now?

[Hanover1]

horses traveling comfortably rarely if ever flip. it happens most often when under stout restraint (he never tightened a rein) or under strong pressure or certainly floundering on a track he didn't like.
I have had them flip in the morning while loping along...try again.

[Spalding No!]

Not many have won that are still traing now? In this group, only dutrow, pletcher, zito and McLaughlin.

Are you refering to the Belmont Stakes here? Tim Ritchey, Tim Ice, Ken McPeek, David Hofmans, Bob Baffert, Lukas, Shug McGaughey, etc

[senortout]

You know I been doin a lot of thinkin and it seems to me the song the girl sang upset the horses near as much as it upset me....no wonder they interrupted for a commercial!

[Robert Fischer]

Ice Box was/is simply a horse who had some wonderful trips and some visually misleading performances. In spite of the popularity and favortism, Ice Box was unlikely to run first or second in the Belmont, unless he had a bunch of things go his way.

[WinterTriangle]

Are you refering to the Belmont Stakes here? Tim Ritchey, Tim Ice, Ken McPeek, David Hofmans, Bob Baffert, Lukas, Shug McGaughey, etc

ooops. I left out baffert.

Did Ritchey, Ice, McPeek, Hoffmans, Lukas or Shug have contenders yesterday?

I must have missed that part. I said "in this group". ;)

[Spalding No!]

ooops. I left out baffert.

Did Ritchey, Ice, McPeek, Hoffmans, Lukas or Shug have contenders yesterday?

I must have missed that part. I said "in this group". ;)

Well you said there are not many who have won it that are still training.

Even if you restrict it to yesterday's field only, 1/2 the trainers represented had won the race previously.

[WinterTriangle]

It's not a point of view. It's a matter of fact. He either ran 2nd in this race 6-7 times or he didn't. I could be wrong about that stat, but it isn't opinion or 'point of view' based. Sometimes I don't understand you WT.


Phantom, wasn't arguing with the stats. Was just trying to find a way to look at his accomplishments in a positive light, since I'm a huge Zito fan. :jump:


Stats are fun to play with because can be used to look at something different ways. A town in wyoming has a population of 100, and 2 new families move in with 6 kids, the chamber of commerce can write that "it's the fastest growing town in the West!"

[WinterTriangle]

1/2 the trainers represented had won the race previously.

Trainers capable of training for 1-1/2 tend to repeat, since most are not training for that in the US, obviously.
4 trainers isn't quite 1/2, though. ;)

[Spalding No!]

Trainers capable of training for 1-1/2 tend to repeat, since most are not training for that in the US, obviously.
4 trainers isn't quite 1/2, though. ;)

I really no longer have any idea what point you were making when saying:

"Not many have won that are still traing now? In this group, only dutrow, pletcher, zito and McLaughlin."

I'm gonna walk into the Brazilian jungle for 3 days, retrieve my sanity, and call it good.

Thanks.