Good attendance for Belmont.

[tzipi]

About 45,000. I mean there was really no Derby or Preakness story coming in or a TC try so I think that's pretty good day for NYRA. I'm sure the handle was pretty good.

[WinterTriangle]

Am I reading right, that would be about 49,000 less than in 2008, and 10,000 less than last year? What's a "normal" saturday with a few small stakes races pull in?

Oaklawn gets about 20-22K people for the Prima Donna Stakes and little races like that, just wondering how they compare.

People in NY need to get out there and support their tracks, the news says it was kinda quiet and subdued there today?

[Dahoss9698]

Well it would make sense there would be that many people in 2008. Big Brown was going for the triple crown. People in NY support racing by betting a lot.

[miesque]

Am I reading right, that would be about 49,000 less than in 2008, and 10,000 less than last year? What's a "normal" saturday with a few small stakes races pull in?

Oaklawn gets about 20-22K people for the Prima Donna Stakes and little races like that, just wondering how they compare.

People in NY need to get out there and support their tracks, the news says it was kinda quiet and subdued there today?

Well for reference if I recall correctly there were around 7K when I was there for Jockey Club Gold Cup last Fall.

[tzipi]

Am I reading right, that would be about 49,000 less than in 2008, and 10,000 less than last year? What's a "normal" saturday with a few small stakes races pull in?

People in NY need to get out there and support their tracks, the news says it was kinda quiet and subdued there today?

Well I will say I agree everyone should get out to belmont and support no matter what the day.

On the Belmont Stakes I disagree. 2008 was a Triple Crown try year with the popular Big Brown and last year had the popular MTB who won the Derby and was 2nd in the Preakness. You can't compare those years to this year.

[FantasticDan]

Handle report:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/57377/belmont-ontrack-wagering-down-156-from-2009

[Robert Goren]

I wonder what the handle was Mth. I wonder even more what it would have been if you could actually get in a bet.:rolleyes:

[slewis]

Didn't seem like 45k to me....more like 35k.....but Im guessing...


People were still coming in at 3 pm which I found strange with the early post.

Of course, as usual NYRA management misses the boat....

1st.... They close the owners lot to owners and agents and SELL the spots trying to make money on parking..... Dumb dumb dumb..although it didn't piss me off walking from the barn area as much as it pissed off other regulars and horsemen.

2nd... They have the audacity to bump up the price of food 20-30%!

Dumb dumb dumb..... In Vegas....give food and drink away cheap (not to mention hotel rooms) and they'll gamble gamble gamble it all back to you.
(And think they're having fun!!)
(and maybe come back next Saturday)

Of course those on the NYRA board...and Pudgy the CEO, are not in the gambling business...they're in the horse business...and food business...and parking business....and also the new car storage business..from what I can tell of all the new dealer cars stored on the NYRA parking lots.

3rd.... I had to laugh when I saw that NYRA failed to rent the Marquee tent for the biggest event of the Summer... what a marketing failure....lol
I mean, HOW DO YOU NOT RENT THE TENT????? Damn, didn't anyone call Goldman??:lol:

They spend $5000... plus.... on new sod and landscape to make the place look good...and then can't rent the tent!!! :lol:

(BTW...I give the new sod 2 or 3 weeks and it'll be dead since only special expensive grass can grow in that area....so it's NYRA money pissed out the window). (so what else is new?)
Ooops..I mean the taxpayers of NYS paid for the sod and landscape.. so I guess the joke is on us...:mad:

Great job by PJ and Andrew Byrnes putting together a good betting card... I do give credit where it's due...especially when these days can be chalky.

And BTW...for anyone that doesn't like the idea that I bash NYRA....I only speak the truth....there is NOTHING in this post that isn't FACT.

Wow, would I love to get into a debate with Haywood or a member of the NYRA board on one of the Capital district OTB TV shows I get invited on at Saratoga each summer...what fun that would be!!!:jump:

[Tom]

#1 sounds like it was good idea. Customers before owners?
No brainer. You know the owners will come back. :rolleyes:

[lamboguy]

i just wonder what it takes for the racing industry to learn that there is something drastically wrong with the game at this time. they have had biger live attendaneces to watch the world wide wresting and more than that paid to see it on cable television. maybe people trust the structure of wrestling more than horseracing. this is very sad, because yesterday was as good a program as one could put on in racing, and the numbers took a steep decline.

[sonnyp]

i just wonder what it takes for the racing industry to learn that there is something drastically wrong with the game at this time. they have had biger live attendaneces to watch the world wide wresting and more than that paid to see it on cable television. maybe people trust the structure of wrestling more than horseracing. this is very sad, because yesterday was as good a program as one could put on in racing, and the numbers took a steep decline.



there seem to be many on this board who feel a need for the "general public" in this country to bless the sport that they, as individuals, love. it almost seems they are looking for justification for enjoying the things in life that they enjoy. we here love horseracing. the society we live in has changed lightyears in the past 30 years. there's nothing wrong with us or horseracing other than the fact that it is no longer appealing to the masses as it once was. like many other things rendered "passee" it will never be what it once was, no matter what racing does. the product is simply not in the mindset of our society which no longer sees what we see as an appealing endeavor. opera is wonderful to some, so is fencing but they don't appeal to the masses. you hit it with the wwe !!! that's where our society has gone and it aint commin back.

without being condescending, i'm proud to be able to enjoy the aesthetics, take it as a compliment that the average guytoday doesn't like what i like and could care less if the "world" comes out to a real nice card like the one at belmont. the biggest problem i have is that it won't survive, but it'll outlive me.

most of us are older. it can be a tough pill to swallow...times change. we've had our wonderful times and experiences and now the younger people will decide what will make up their memories. for many, many reasons, horseracing will not hold the same place in their life as it does in ours.

[slewis]

there seem to be many on this board who feel a need for the "general public" in this country to bless the sport that they, as individuals, love. it almost seems they are looking for justification for enjoying the things in life that they enjoy. we here love horseracing. the society we live in has changed lightyears in the past 30 years. there's nothing wrong with us or horseracing other than the fact that it is no longer appealing to the masses as it once was. like many other things rendered "passee" it will never be what it once was, no matter what racing does. the product is simply not in the mindset of our society which no longer sees what we see as an appealing endeavor. opera is wonderful to some, so is fencing but they don't appeal to the masses. you hit it with the wwe !!! that's where our society has gone and it aint commin back.

without being condescending, i'm proud to be able to enjoy the aesthetics, take it as a compliment that the average guytoday doesn't like what i like and could care less if the "world" comes out to a real nice card like the one at belmont. the biggest problem i have is that it won't survive, but it'll outlive me.

most of us are older. it can be a tough pill to swallow...times change. we've had our wonderful times and experiences and now the younger people will decide what will make up their memories. for many, many reasons, horseracing will not hold the same place in their life as it does in ours.

Know what Sonny?

Everytime I see some kid with his baseball cap turned sideways, with his pants hanging below his waist so we can not only see the underware brand but almost how soiled they are, listening to the kind of music only a punk could love......I smile to myself and remember how my father laughed at me for my attire and for cranking up the first U2 album I bought in my 20's....

Times will always change...we know that..but I'm not sold on the sport losing ANY of it's appeal.... What I'm convinced is that racing is being run by a group of people who want to JAM THEIR AGENDA down the throats of the public, regardless of whether it works or not.
It's that mentality that's killing the sport, not the transition from "rock to rap".

So as long as those running the game remain high on their perch(es) with their 1970 ideaology of how racing should (and damn WILL be), you and others (respectfully) will continue to be duped into the belief that there is no market and future for a sport which thrived and grew for decades...until now of course.

I, know differently.... (and constantly scream so) but what do I know? I still wear my baseball cap straight.

[slewis]

#1 sounds like it was good idea. Customers before owners?
No brainer. You know the owners will come back. :rolleyes:

If NYRA did it on a FREE, first come first served basis, I'd have more respect for that then trying to sell the parking spots for profit.

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

i just wonder what it takes for the racing industry to learn that there is something drastically wrong with the game at this time. they have had biger live attendaneces to watch the world wide wresting and more than that paid to see it on cable television. maybe people trust the structure of wrestling more than horseracing. this is very sad, because yesterday was as good a program as one could put on in racing, and the numbers took a steep decline.

I do believe that the thirty minutes between races has a detremental effect on the young people who attend these 'big events' especially if they are not horseplayers. Face it the only thing to do between races if you are not handicapping is to drink (and they do plenty of that) Lol.

All in all it's been stated a number of times on this board if they want to market this game for the younger audiences have a weekly designated big payoff pool that is televised so that the younger people can talk about and it might create interest in a certain percentage of these younger people to learn the art of handicapping.

You have to try something. I believe this has been tried in Sweden with some success. I think television is the key to attracting the newer fans. jmo

[Jasonm921]

up until about 2:30-3:00 o'clock it felt like there was only 25,000 in the place. Then it got noticably crowded around the Acorn.

[Rico8812]

I guarantee they fluff the attendance # by around 10,000 people.

NYRA Marketing has gone way downhill since Bill Nader left.

[lamboguy]

there seem to be many on this board who feel a need for the "general public" in this country to bless the sport that they, as individuals, love. it almost seems they are looking for justification for enjoying the things in life that they enjoy. we here love horseracing. the society we live in has changed lightyears in the past 30 years. there's nothing wrong with us or horseracing other than the fact that it is no longer appealing to the masses as it once was. like many other things rendered "passee" it will never be what it once was, no matter what racing does. the product is simply not in the mindset of our society which no longer sees what we see as an appealing endeavor. opera is wonderful to some, so is fencing but they don't appeal to the masses. you hit it with the wwe !!! that's where our society has gone and it aint commin back.

without being condescending, i'm proud to be able to enjoy the aesthetics, take it as a compliment that the average guytoday doesn't like what i like and could care less if the "world" comes out to a real nice card like the one at belmont. the biggest problem i have is that it won't survive, but it'll outlive me.

most of us are older. it can be a tough pill to swallow...times change. we've had our wonderful times and experiences and now the younger people will decide what will make up their memories. for many, many reasons, horseracing will not hold the same place in their life as it does in ours.i think you have missed my point here, there is no such thing as horseracing being able to shove the sport down peoples throats. horseracing has appeal that no other spectator sport has, it has fan participation at all levels, owners and or bettors. that is a big edge to have. nasscar racing gets 100,000+ to watch their sport. in our sport the people running the show scare their own customers out of the racetracks. drive into a racetrack, its $3.00 to park your car, $10 more if you want to valet it. the $3 parking places are far away from the doors of the facility so if you have a physical problem you are forced into the $10 for valet. i haven't been to a casino in years but the last time i went they didn't charge me 1 penny for valet parking. i played on a table game and after i was done a casino host asked if there was anything he could do for me, he gave me a voucher for 2 for a buffet. i didn't ask, he gave. i didn't even go to the buffet. when was the last time the racetrack did something like this.
after you pay to park your car, they charge you $5 to get in the place. if you want a box seat in the clubhouse they get you for another $7.50. then you have to buy the tools to bet, like a racing form for another $5.00. now you want to buy a coca-cola fro $3.75. you spend the day there, you lose your money and you don't feel like a customer, you feel like a victim.

as bad as all that sounds, these are the easy problems to solve at a racetrack. accountability out weighs all those customer issues.

i have said this before, if i had a free hand i could get NYRA $100 million handles on a saturday afternoon, each and every saturday afternoon within 3 years. i would start by instituting the needed structural foundation changes needed in this game from the bottom up, not the top down. the top down has been the downfall of this sport now for many years.

[sonnyp]

[QUOT=I think television is the key to attracting the newer fans. jmo[/QUOTE]

i'm not going to keep boring you guys but i will add, a huge percentage af the public now believes what we love is unkind and inhumane almost like bullfighting. they also feel if you couldn't bet, NOBODY would care at all.

add to that the new technologies available (playstation, x box), the rising popularity of mainstream sport(ftball,bsktball etc), the music and movie industry, casinos ......how you gonna get this generation to "blow" an afternoon watching 20 minutes of live races on a card over 6 hrs.

television ?? you'll see more of the 2006 world series of poker. they can hustle advertisers for that...not horseracing. bye the way, they did a pilot on a capping tournament in vegas just like the poker....lasted 1 show. nobody watched.

live your life, enjoy your racing, consider yourself lucky the jocks(ala wwe) don't stand up in the irons, point to their crotch and yell "suck it" in an attempt to generate business.

[lamboguy]

I guarantee they fluff the attendance # by around 10,000 people.

NYRA Marketing has gone way downhill since Bill Nader left.
billy started on this game at rockingham park where we became friendly. billy does know this sport as well as anyone. he is pure talent and is needed back here to save it.

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

I have introduced a number of friends/co-workers to the game over the years and I think the one factor that has prevailed in keeping 90% of these friends still playing horses is the fact that they were introduced to 'live racing'. Yes a day at beautiful Belmont Park was a good part of the attraction> I told them to move around during a day at the track...the paddock, the backyard and of course watching a race upclose at the rail.

Yes this is a gambling game, lets get that straight as the number one factor is to make money, however, when in combination with enjoying the day at the track I think that is the key.

[sonnyp]

I have introduced a number of friends/co-workers to the game over the years and I think the one factor that has prevailed in keeping 90% of these friends still playing horses is the fact that they were introduced to 'live racing'. Yes a day at beautiful Belmont Park was a good part of the attraction> I told them to move around during a day at the track...the paddock, the backyard and of course watching a race upclose at the rail.

Yes this is a gambling game, lets get that straight as the number one factor is to make money, however, when in combination with enjoying the day at the track I think that is the key.

ernest morris opened saratoga harness in 1941. he was a tyrant, but what a simple, beautiful little track he ran. immaculate, good service no nonsense.

in the 60's along comes state mandated otb. no way, says ernie ! racing is about being at the track. the crowd, the gang, the excitement. he fought them every step. i remember him refusing to provide entries for otb. "we'll close you down" said the politicians in their infinite wisdom. he sent the entries in alphabetical order intead of by race. "we'll close you down" again. you know who won as the idiots always do.

ernies gone and now saratoga is a racino fighting for survival. who's crying now ?

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

Interesting story Sonny. I have to say that without a trip to Belmont three or four times a month I would be like a heroin addict looking for a fix LOL. I simply enjoy being there walking the grounds and the sights and all the activity of the place. I feel the same way about Saratoga.

I have taken my young daughter to the breakfast at Belmont and the Sunday family fun days with much success. So, for me, it's the infrequent contact of watching the 'live' product that works for me. I simply love the game and get every day enjoyment from it...what else can I ask for?

[sonnyp]

Interesting story Sonny. I have to say that without a trip to Belmont three or four times a month I would be like a heroin addict looking for a fix LOL. I simply enjoy being there walking the grounds and the sights and all the activity of the place. I feel the same way about Saratoga.

I have taken my young daughter to the breakfast at Belmont and the Sunday family fun days with much success. So, for me, it's the infrequent contact of watching the 'live' product that works for me. I simply love the game and get every day enjoyment from it...what else can I ask for?


i can not think of one thing left in our existence which is motivated or promulgated by shear aesthetics. it's simply ALL about the money. and now we look at the children and ask, "where did we go wrong"?

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

i can not think of one thing left in our existence which is motivated or promulgated by shear aesthetics. it's simply ALL about the money. and now we look at the children and ask, "where did we go wrong"?

That says it all Sonny...it's a real shame.

[LottaKash]

ernest morris opened saratoga harness in 1941. he was a tyrant, but what a simple, beautiful little track he ran. immaculate, good service no nonsense.

in the 60's along comes state mandated otb. no way, says ernie ! racing is about being at the track. the crowd, the gang, the excitement. he fought them every step. i remember him refusing to provide entries for otb. "we'll close you down" said the politicians in their infinite wisdom. he sent the entries in alphabetical order intead of by race. "we'll close you down" again. you know who won as the idiots always do.

ernies gone and now saratoga is a racino fighting for survival. who's crying now ?

Too sad about that....:(

Many years ago I used to take my family to nearby Peck's Lake, for a week or two of very "rustic" vacationing....We would fish all day, cookout, and then ride over to Saratoga Harness for the nite racing....My wife always loved the smattering of flower boxes located thruoughout the grandstand, and the kids loved it as well....I miss going there, as other than the "Spa, and Monmouth Park, Saratoga-Harness was the only other racetrack that lent that country airiness and feel to the vibe, for me...

I guess going back for a sentimental visit wouldn't pay the aesthetic dividends that it once did...Times change, hunh ? Racinos, haha...

best,

[WinterTriangle]

i can not think of one thing left in our existence which is motivated or promulgated by shear aesthetics. it's simply ALL about the money. and now we look at the children and ask, "where did we go wrong"?

That was a thoughtful post. Linguistically, I have always thought that when a word or phrase falls out of use, the concept it described also falls out of being. Nowadays, if you ask someone to describe an event or meal they enjoyed, usually I just receive "it was great!"------yes there are so many wonderful words in the English language we can use to accurately describe things......that would convey the "aesthetics" you speak of.

Sorry, brought me back to philosophy class --- Aristotle, Spinoza, and St. Thomas Aquinus disucssing the essence of a thing. Interestingly, back in the day, when Sir Issaac Newton et. al. were writing and speaking in Latin, that language itself seems to have many words and phrases that we no longer have that describe aesthetics.

[Steve 'StatMan']

I'll bet Monmouth outhandles Belmont on live racing Today, Sunday June 6th, 2010.

[PaceAdvantage]

Didn't seem like 45k to me....more like 35k.....but Im guessing...You claim that there is "nothing in your post that isn't fact," and this is your opening line? :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

a huge percentage af the public now believes what we love is unkind and inhumane almost like bullfighting.Pardon me, but I claim bullshit on this quote...

[slewis]

You claim that there is "nothing in your post that isn't fact," and this is your opening line? :lol:


F' off Mike...

When someone makes a point or reference that their statements are "facts or factual" and then specifically states in a particular statement that that particular statement might be a guess or "guestimate".....their statement is 100% truthful and factual.

I've stated before that I have no problem with you or anyone having a go at me, just make it reasonable. Your point here clearly is not.

[lamboguy]

whether the real number is 35k or 45k really don't make any diference at all in this particular instance. this card that they put on was on was the best undercard of all the tripple crown races this year. it was 10 times better than kentucky derby, and the preakness card was not even on the same map as last saturday at belmont. i have been to belmon't with over 90k people in the place with not as good an undercard, and no better a feature race. they should have had 150k people there. football teams get 70k people there in below freezing temperatures, week in and week out.

[Robert Goren]

i'm not going to keep boring you guys but i will add, a huge percentage af the public now believes what we love is unkind and inhumane almost like bullfighting. I don't know how huge the percentage is, but they are out there. I know 4 people think who this way. One of them bets on the races. It is every hard to disagree with them when a trainer is caught using drugs. And most of us think that the trainers who are caught are just the tip of the iceberg.

[PaceAdvantage]

F' off Mike...

When someone makes a point or reference that their statements are "facts or factual" and then specifically states in a particular statement that that particular statement might be a guess or "guestimate".....their statement is 100% truthful and factual.

I've stated before that I have no problem with you or anyone having a go at me, just make it reasonable. Your point here clearly is not.Lighten up Francis.

The funny part here is that you consider all of your rants to be reasonable. Clearly, some of us, at times, believe they are not. Nothing unreasonable about expressing such.

But tell me to **** Off again...I really enjoy that REASONABLE aspect of your posting persona.... :rolleyes:

[andymays]

I thought the card was good but the TV ratings and the handle could only be considered a disaster.

I would have never guessed the numbers were this bad.

TV ratings down 37%

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/57393/belmont-television-ratings-slide

All sources handle down about 17%

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/all-sources-handle-for-belmont-down-168/

[PaceAdvantage]

Did ABC promote the Belmont at all? I don't recall seeing anything, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[andymays]

Did ABC promote the Belmont at all? I don't recall seeing anything, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.


I think quite a few people shut it off after about 5 minutes. It was poorly done by most accounts. They need to revamp their coverage.

I doubt they spent a dime to promote the coverage.

[sonnyp]

Pardon me, but I claim bullshit on this quote...



from n y times column 6/7/2010 "the rail" "reasons for the decline of horseracing" :


5. Drugs. The sport has not been able to prevent the use of drugs and the belief that many of the sport’s leading trainers have regularly chemically enhanced the performances of their horses. We have never been able to explain or explain away the Oscar Barrera phenomenon, where one trainer in New York in the late 1970s and early 1980s seemed to be able to improve a horse’s performance magically overnight.

6. Public Perception. Numbers 4 and 5 plus the use of whips on horses and the catastrophic injuries we have seen in major races have contributed to the public perception that horse racing is a cruel sport which has little concern for the health or the safety of the horse.

[PaceAdvantage]

Is that supposed to be proof of the following?

a huge percentage af the public now believes what we love is unkind and inhumane almost like bullfighting.There is such a thing as polls. They do it all the time on other subjects. Let's start there...let's see this "huge percentage" you speak of that think racing is unkind and inhumane "almost like bullfighting."

Pure, unadulterated baloney...

[sonnyp]

huge percentage was a poor choice of phrase, a significant portion would have been much more appropriate.

i assure you go for wand, eight bells, cobra venum etc etc have created an attitude among significant numbers of the public.

sometimes, as the administrator i find your comments pure unadulterated baloney.

[PaceAdvantage]

i assure you go for wand, eight bells, cobra venum etc etc have created an attitude among significant numbers of the public.I don't believe this to be true. If anything, they are hugely indifferent about the whole thing. In other words, they really couldn't care less.

If even a SIGNIFICANT, as you put it, percentage of the general population thought racing was inhumane and almost on the level of bullfighting, PETA wouldn't be so entirely IMPOTENT whenever they try and get attention following a horse racing tragedy...this little example is just for starters...

It just simply isn't reality.

[sonnyp]

mike
sometimes we all get off track. this one point i made about public perception was a minor portion of why i thought racing is losing favor in america.

in my lifetime, for all the reasons i detailed, i believe public perception of racing has gone from seabiscuit and national velvet to biancone.

that's my opinion and with the trends headed in the direction they are, i can't see anybody dismissing an opinion as unadulterated baloney.

[joanied]

We don't watch network TV much...but in the 10 days or so leading up to the Belmont, I didn't see one ad for it on ABC...not one!

There are many reasons for the decline, which we've covered here at length many times...Zilly started a thread about that today...

as for Belmont's attendance on Saturday...I was really happily surprised to see the Grandstand full...and surprised again when I saw the attendence record...they couldn't even break 50,000 folks attending....but, with no TC, maybe that's a pretty good number...although, if you consider the population within 30 miles of Belmont...it's a sad thing not to have had many more get out there for the day.

I do beleive that TV can draw in more fans and get them to the tracks...if they promote racing in the right way...needless to say, there are several problems that need to be taken care of if racing even hopes to gather some momentum again...but one part would be concerning race coverage on TV.

Forget HRTV/TVG...we need racing ads in primetime on the networks...we need the guys that produce the race programs, like on Saturday...cameras should be rolling in the picnic area...ABC did a tiny bit of roving, but not nearly enough...I assume this is just about Belmont Park (not racing in general)...show just how much fun folks are having...including kids...picnics, BBQ, playing games...they need to show that when you go to Belmont park, it's a day at the beach, a day in the mountains BBQ'ing, a picnic in the backyard or down by the lake... tell folks that spending a beautiful, sunny day at Belmont park is better than driving 100 miles to find a campground to BBQ in. That is the kind of ads they need to run...picnics, BBQ, Beer, games, fresh air and sunshine...and the most gorgeous, poetic, courageous athletes in the world.

[WinterTriangle]

a significant portion would have been much more appropriate

No, I think that is even hyperbolic.

As someone whose friends do not follow horseracing, but know I'm into it, I have found few if any, people who shrink with disgust or think it's cruel.

Then again, I tend to hang out with people who have basic critical thinking skills. ;)

Bullfighting has NO parallels to horse racing. The practice of bullfighting is more like dogfighting. Involves agitating the bull during which the bull sometimes rams his head into to the wall out of frustration, and since he has no escape, he sometimes bashes into the wall, breaks his legs, etc. in doing so. On top of that, the capeadores work hard at exhausting the bull. Sometimes the picadors on horseback further exhuast the bull by using spears and pics which causes some bleeding. As in dog fighting, bulls are bred from a line of ferocity, with very little human contact. If the bull won't fight, they replace him with one who will. If the matador gets injured, the bull is killed.

I would post photos of the bulls with blood and pics hanging out of them, but really it is barf-inducing.

I guess you could count me as someone who doesn't quite "get" the noble bravery of the matador "dancing" with a wearied, bloodied, beast. In horseracing, we don't cut off the horse's ears and tail and present them to the jockey, either. Which is sometimes done in bullfighting. And like dog fighting, everyone cheers the torture of a captured animal who has been made to fight in a ring like a gladiator. :rolleyes:


Conversely, thoroughbreds as a species love to run fast, and just like any athlete competing, can sustain an injury in the process. There is nothing cruel about asking a TB to run......they love running. (trainers who ask them to do so with injuries is another story. :bang: ). The differences is that in bullfighting and dogfighting, the whole POINT is to sustain injury.

I see zero parallels at all. And anyone who does is a PETA freak or something.

[PaceAdvantage]

i can't see anybody dismissing an opinion as unadulterated baloney.You didn't present it as an opinion. You presented it as fact:
a huge percentage af the public now believes what we love is unkind and inhumane almost like bullfighting.This sounds like fact to me. That's why I cried baloney (or bullshit originally). Now you state it is merely an opinion. OK. Whatever.

[PaceAdvantage]

As someone whose friends do not follow horseracing, but know I'm into it, I have found few if any, people who shrink with disgust or think it's cruel.Same here...the general population doesn't give much thought to racing outside of the Triple Crown...but that's not because they think it's an inhumane or cruel sport akin to bullfighting.

I don't know anyone personally who thinks like this...and I know plenty of people who aren't hard core fans of horse racing.