Umpire blows perfect game

[Marshall Bennett]

Two outs in the ninth and umpire blows call at first base . Simply horrible . Could have been 3 perfect games in a season , never done before .

[LottaKash]

Who, what, where, when, why ? How ?

best,

[Marshall Bennett]

Tonight , Detroit tigers , Umpire Jim Joyce .

[cj's dad]

Did it end up a no-hitter ????

I assume it did.

[RaceBookJoe]

Absolutely terrible call. That ump deserves to be suspended for the season. rbj

[ghostyapper]

Did it end up a no-hitter ????

I assume it did.

He was called safe so it was credited as a hit.

[Overlay]

Here's a link to the replay. (What a terrible call!)

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Tigers-Armando-Galarraga-robbed-of-perfect-game-by-bad-call?GT1=39002

[cj's dad]

He was called safe so it was credited as a hit.

I just saw the replay and after the Ump said he blew the call - Adios Jim Joyce - it wasn't even close !!

[cj]

Did it end up a no-hitter ????

I assume it did.

No, that was considered an infield hit.

[cj]

That call is so bad it defies any logical explanation.

[Zippy Chippy]

That call is so bad it defies any logical explanation.

It would be unprecidented but they should seriously reverse that. That is awful!!

[Ocala Mike]

There is wild speculation that MLB will reverse this call tomorrow, although absolutely no precedent for this. Of course, doesn't the NBA reverse things like technical foul calls and flagrant foul calls after the fact all the time without their refs getting their boxers in a bunch?


Ocala Mike

[PaceAdvantage]

That video link sucked...no replay...here, let's try this one...

f5idTsjtE2U

[cj]

That is even clearer. It isn't really close, a full stride away from the bag.

[cj]

It looks to me like the guy didn't hustle. He had no angle on the play and didn't attempt to get one.

[kenwoodall2]

There is wild speculation that MLB will reverse this call tomorrow, although absolutely no precedent for this. Of course, doesn't the NBA reverse things like technical foul calls and flagrant foul calls after the fact all the time without their refs getting their boxers in a bunch?


Ocala Mike
MBL has no reversal policy. Since it was at Detroit, official scorekeeper should have given an error on the play to preserve the no hitter.

[philcski]

That call is so bad it defies any logical explanation.

Agree! WTF was that ump looking at, he was out by a full stride!

MBL has no reversal policy. Since it was at Detroit, official scorekeeper should have given an error on the play to preserve the no hitter.

E-10... error on the 1st base umpire!

[Robert Fischer]

MBL has no reversal policy. Since it was at Detroit, official scorekeeper should have given an error on the play to preserve the no hitter.

good idea

bad body language by the pitcher(covering the bag), but that was bad. Priceless reaction by Mags.

[JustRalph]

The great thing is that the Pitcher hustled to make the final out, made a great play to get there etc........ and then gets robbed......sucks!

He earned it right down to the last play

[chickenhead]

They can do whatever the hell they want, Moses didn't bring those rules down from a hill somewhere.

reverse it or you're dead to me MLB.

[PhantomOnTour]

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww for cryin' out loud!

Reminds me of Don Denkinger (was it him?) who blew the call in the '85 World Series Game 6 btw the Cards and Royals....Jorge Orta was out and so was this guy.

[Dave Schwartz]

I am a baseball purist, but on this I fall on the side of logic.

Consider the famous Ernie Shore "perfect game." He wasn't even the starting pitcher and there was a runner on first when he came in the game.

The COB can do what is right to correct this travesty if he chooses.

[PhantomOnTour]

Didn't Nolan Ryan throw a no hitter for the Angels and shortstop Rudi Meoli (remember him?) dropped a pop up in the 1st inning?....that was the only opposing runner to reach base all game.

[Dave Schwartz]

Maybe so, but there is a big difference between a fielding error and an obvious, glaring, pronounced, stupid mistake by an umpire.

There is also a difference between 1st inning and last out.

[kenwoodall2]

Umpire call can be appealed to same ump like MGR did; ump can ask another ump, which is what should have been done also. So Ump blew it 3 times- nthe original call, not changing the ruling, not asking another ump. He should be gone from baseball!

[Overlay]

That video link sucked...no replay

Gosh, I didn't mean it personally! :D (In my defense, the link had a replay at the time that I posted it.)

[PaceAdvantage]

Gosh, I didn't mean it personally! :D (In my defense, the link had a replay at the time that I posted it.)I know it probably did...and it was nothing personal on my part towards you...but I ended up watching that whole thing, and not once did they play a replay...I was steamed... :lol:

[JustRalph]

I know it probably did...and it was nothing personal on my part towards you...but I ended up watching that whole thing, and not once did they play a replay...I was steamed... :lol:

I was cussing too.............

[Overlay]

My apologies to you also, then. :)

[cj's dad]

No, that was considered an infield hit.

What the hell was I thinking ??

[Valuist]

There is zero chance this call gets reversed. Once you do that, you open up a whole new can of worms. At what point does it cease? Seeing it live, I thought it was close. I'm sure seeing it slowed down one can see where the guy was out.

[Marshall Bennett]

The pitcher at least deserves a notation and an asterisk (*) . :)

[cj's dad]

There is zero chance this call gets reversed. Once you do that, you open up a whole new can of worms. At what point does it cease? Seeing it live, I thought it was close. I'm sure seeing it slowed down one can see where the guy was out.

Why ? Home run calls are reversed after looking at replays.

[OTM Al]

Home run calls are the so called boundary calls that are permissable to be reviewed by replay. Close plays at first are not.

BTW it may have been an easy out if the firstbaseman had let the secondbaseman field the ball and taken the throw. So it goes. It was a bad call, but to the naked eye it was very very close. He got it wrong. Happens.

[RaceBookJoe]

I have watched that play 20 times and yes the runner was out all 20 times, but the only explanation i can give for the umps call was that the pitcher, when he caught the ball kind of flipped it....so maybe the ump didnt think he had control of the ball. But to me, this kid got robbed of a perfect game. rbj

[Dave Schwartz]

Umpire call can be appealed to same ump like MGR did; ump can ask another ump, which is what should have been done also. So Ump blew it 3 times- nthe original call, not changing the ruling, not asking another ump. He should be gone from baseball!

9.02b does not apply here.

The problem here is that rule 9.02b is only designed to apply when an umpire makes a call which is in conflict with the rules.

In other words, it only applies to the interpretation of a rule, not the judgement call itself.


When I went to umpire school, what happened here was known as "being in the shit house," a place no umpire wants to be.


Being "in the shit house" means that you have screwed up and no matter what you choose to do about it, you look bad.

Nick Bremigan was the "rules guy" back then. He used to teach "no SH" with easy to remember examples, many were very entertaining because they were real stories, with real players. The umpires names were generally left out.

I have an example right here... This example is about being precise when you give instructions to players.


Willie Randolph was on first base. Ground ball to shortstop. He throws the ball into the dugout. As Willie is approaching second base, the umpire says, "Go to third, Willie."

Willie did just what he was told, cutting across the diamond to get to third without touching second base. On appeal, Randolph is called out for not touching second base.

As the story goes, Billy Martin comes out. First thing he does is ask Willie, "What did he say?" (The way Bremigan told the story, the entire class let out an audible "uh-oh.")

Billy's next stop is to get in the umpire's face, complaining that Willie did just what the umpire told him to do, which, of course, was true.

The correct thing to say was, "Touch second and then go on to third." Lesson was learned.

Randolph remained out, BTW. The fact that the umpire phrased it incorrectly did not forgive Willie from knowing the rules of baseball.


This is called "being in the shit house," when there is no way out for the umpire. No matter what happens, the umpire looks bad. :bang:



Bremigan also said that there is nothing worse than Billy Martin when he is right.

This is also the point where Bremigan would introduce the "Billy Martin Defense." How that works is when you see Billy coming, you head towards the infield grass. The faster he is coming, the faster you move, the object being to get well onto the grass before Billy gets there. If you accomplish this, Billy will not be able to kick dirt on your shoes and slacks. :lol:

[PhantomOnTour]

Dave, you know your baseball.

[Ocala Mike]

Dave, that is good shit. Meanwhile, as I type this there is talk of the Baseball Commissioner reviewing the call.

Seems to me that since it was the penultimate play of the game, a precedent-setting ruling by the Commissioner that the game ended with that play in an out call is doable. The next guy's AB would be obliterated from the scoring (big deal), as well as the runner's moving from first to second to third (don't think he got any SB's awarded anyway).


Ocala Mike

[Dave Schwartz]

Mike,

I see it just as you do.


Dave

PS: This umpire is really in the SH!

[ceejay]

Can MLB override the scorekeepers judgment and call the play reaching base on an error, which really isn't too far from the truth?

[bigmack]

I have watched that play 20 times and yes the runner was out all 20 times,
20x? Wow! Clear as day with 1 in this camp.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm shocked he was able to throw a perfect game with only three strikeouts. Has there ever been a perfect game thrown with three or fewer strikeouts before?

[Ocala Mike]

Can MLB override the scorekeepers judgment and call the play reaching base on an error, which really isn't too far from the truth?

Who would you charge with the error? The first baseman's throw was perfect. The pitcher for "bobbling" the ball (he didn't)? Maybe E-4 for "letting" the first baseman cut in front of him?

Anyway, the perfect game would still not happen. Changing the scoring, in my opinion, would be a bigger blown call than the ump's.


Ocala Mike

[Dave Schwartz]

Mike,

Actually, he has a point. If the runner was safe because the pitcher bobbled the ball, an error would be correct.

Of course, the guy was safe because the umpire was watching a different play.


Dave

[BillW]

I'm shocked he was able to throw a perfect game with only three strikeouts. Has there ever been a perfect game thrown with three or fewer strikeouts before?

If he would have struck out any more he would have exceeded his pitch count and been yanked :p

[PhantomOnTour]

How bout this kid Galarraga though? Give him credit for handling it like a man, accepting Joyce's apology and basically moving on.

Great scene just played out:
Galarraga presented the lineup card to Joyce (the home plate ump today) and they shook hands. All the while Joyce was crying and they had a few words before Galarraga went to the dugout. Nice to see after all that went down last night.

[ghostyapper]

Selig will make a statement later today about the incident.

[ddog]

All this pathetic desire to "get it right", this "perfect" game will be the most talked about of any of the perfect ones.

Leave it alone, bad calls happen .....pitcher showed what "sports" used to be all about and the ump as well.

Everyone knows he got the perfect game ...... get over it.

It's what makes the history worth knowing in baseball.

Who wants an antiseptic scrubbing of every thing ... blah!!!!!

[Bettowin]

I wonder out of the 20 some perfect games if any were helped along by calls where the runner was safe and called out? Probably not since it would probably be all over ESPN if it happened.

That was one helluva catch by the center fielder for the first out in the ninth.

[ddog]

Selig will make a statement later today about the incident.


selig should shut the h UP!

[ddog]

I wonder out of the 20 some perfect games if any were helped along by calls where the runner was safe and called out? Probably not since it would probably be all over ESPN if it happened.

That was one helluva catch by the center fielder for the first out in the ninth.


Yeah, it was , also saw a "kick save" on a grounder and a line out or two.

It's the game.

One day I am sure we will have the "nannys" among us substitute a computer for the homeplate ump and little robots at the bases. UGH!


Guarantee you the strike zone can get bigger the deeper into the game in this kind of situation and the "errors" late in no-hitters......

[bigmack]

selig should shut the h UP!
So much for that.

He just declared no change.

[ddog]

the less of zelig the better.

[Robert Goren]

One more nail in the coffin for baseball. The people running MLB are too dumb to get a job running a race track.;)

[Dave Schwartz]

Actually, I am okay either way. On the one hand there is the preferred action but on the other hand we have the traditions of baseball.

This will be talked about for 50 years.

[OTM Al]

One more nail in the coffin for baseball. The people running MLB are too dumb to get a job running a race track.;)

Is this a joke? Either that or a tremendous compliment to track management. Baseball is more popular right now than perhaps it ever has been. This event will simply have even more people who hardly watch talking.

[Bettowin]

Actually, I am okay either way. On the one hand there is the preferred action but on the other hand we have the traditions of baseball.

This will be talked about for 50 years.

That's exactly what I said last night. This pitcher will be remembered far longer than if he would have completed the perfect game. I remember Halladay throwing his last weekend but can't remember the other guy who threw one this year.

[magwell]

Bud "lite" should be ashamed ,He should not have the job, but it shows he qualifies to be a steward ;)

[toetoe]

That one of 27 "outs" is important enough to fire an umpire ... how, again ?

Isn't the integrity of Fay Vincent's "noble game" impervious to this kind of boosterism ?

[banacek]

Baseball is more popular right now than perhaps it ever has been.

Can't agree there and I'm a baseball fan....the attendance was has been seriously dropping..down 5.1 million last year. TV - Last years' Sat afternoon Fox game down 10%, Sunday night 6%, for all of ESPN's game down 6%.

I do agree that comparing them to racetrack management is a bit much, but Selig himself would fit in nicely as a racetrack executive, in my opinion.

[magwell]

That one of 27 "outs" is important enough to fire an umpire ... how, again ?

Isn't the integrity of Fay Vincent's "noble game" impervious to this kind of boosterism ? Bud "lite" aka Bud Selig .... not the ump :D

[Robert Goren]

Is this a joke? Either that or a tremendous compliment to track management. Baseball is more popular right now than perhaps it ever has been. This event will simply have even more people who hardly watch talking. It gets more people in the ball park these days, but is not more popular than it was during the forties and fifties. During WWII our troops used to check for German spys on the front by asking baseball questions. Today half our soldiers would end up dead if they had to answer a baseball question. JMO

[johnhannibalsmith]

I'm not a big baseball fan anymore, but in this day and age of steroids, nightclub mishaps, and felony convictions - this whole entire episode has turned into a moment of what is good about baseball - human beings being human beings and athletes acting like role models.

Someone ought to give the pitcher an award for being the rare good person in such a situation and regardless of your opinion of the umpire's ability to do his job, he deserves an equally meaningful award for graciously exposing his humanity and infallibility without concern for the repercussion.

This is the best moment in baseball in some time for all the right reasons.

[newtothegame]

I'm not a big baseball fan anymore, but in this day and age of steroids, nightclub mishaps, and felony convictions - this whole entire episode has turned into a moment of what is good about baseball - human beings being human beings and athletes acting like role models.

Someone ought to give the pitcher an award for being the rare good person in such a situation and regardless of your opinion of the umpire's ability to do his job, he deserves an equally meaningful award for graciously exposing his humanity and infallibility without concern for the repercussion.

This is the best moment in baseball in some time for all the right reasons.

Detroit Auto gave him a new corvette I believe so he did get something :)

[Robert Goren]

I'm not a big baseball fan anymore, but in this day and age of steroids, nightclub mishaps, and felony convictions - this whole entire episode has turned into a moment of what is good about baseball - human beings being human beings and athletes acting like role models.

Someone ought to give the pitcher an award for being the rare good person in such a situation and regardless of your opinion of the umpire's ability to do his job, he deserves an equally meaningful award for graciously exposing his humanity and infallibility without concern for the repercussion.

This is the best moment in baseball in some time for all the right reasons. There were few bigger baseball fans than I was when I was a kid. I put up the strikes, but the steroids killed it for me. The numbers don't mean anything anymore.

[WeirdWilly]

He might not have gotten the pefect game, but he got a nice consolation prize. Before the game Armando Galaragga received a 2010 Metallic Red convertible Corvette from General Motors for being, in so many words, a good sport.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100603/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bba_galarraga_corvette

Sharp wheels. I was hoping they would let him run the bases in it, maybe do a few doughnuts in the outfield, but no, a suit grannyed it around the warning track back off the field. Damn groundskeepers!

As you can imagine, Jim Joyce was HAMMERED by boos when the PA announced the umpires.

[bigmack]

As you can imagine, Jim Joyce was HAMMERED by boos when the PA announced the umpires.
Wrongo. He was warmly received with applause & a standing O. Classy thing for the fans of Detroit to do. :ThmbUp:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2010/06/04/2010-06-04_fans_deliver_perfect_call.html

[WeirdWilly]

Wrongo. He was warmly received with applause & a standing O. Classy thing for the fans of Detroit to do. :ThmbUp:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2010/06/04/2010-06-04_fans_deliver_perfect_call.html

Maybe it was just my section, but the man got boos. I had no idea why until later in the game what had happened. The only talkative people around me were Vietnamese, so I was pretty much out of that conversation.

[Trotman]

Biggest wrong in Baseball is Bud Selig period. Biggest wrong in Hockey Gary Bettman period. But in both cases the owners have these two idiots in there for a reason which why both of these sports are hurting bigtime at the gate and the owners couldn't care less they have their writeoffs. :ThmbDown:

[cj's dad]

In Milt Pappas' no-hitter on Sept. 2, 1972, Pappas had a perfect game with two outs and a 3-2 count on the 27th batter, pinch hitter Larry Stahl. Pappas' next pitch was very close but called a ball by home plate ump Bruce Froemming. Pappas got the next man out, settling for a no-hitter.




Pappas, who went on to get the no-hitter, blames umpire Bruce Froemming to this day.

[Rookies]

As a Slo Pitch player for 25 years and a lifetime baseball fand, I was incensee when I first saw this and believed it should be reversed. However, I have heard a compelling argument by George Will, who'se every book on ball I have read) on ABC this morning. In it, he mentioned, that as a result of this travesty, the following things have occurred:

Galarraga presented the lineup card to Joyce (the home plate ump today) and they shook hands. All the while Joyce was crying and they had a few words before Galarraga went to the dugout. Nice to see after all that went down last night. And the fans gave the Ump a standing O.

He even mentioned that the K finishing off Don Larsen's perfecto was a foot high and outside. It went to a batter that had about, a miniscule 133KS out of 4,000 ABs and the umpire himself finished off his own career with THAT call!

All in all, a fabulous lesson for all when things don't go properly in life, especially for kids and their ' Hockey/Baseball Das and Moms' who make asses of themesleves at every weekend pee wee game, crying about one call/sleight after another.

Bottom line: Would you want Selig to have the power to overturn a crucial blown call at the end of the 7th. game of the W.S. and reverse the winner ?

[Space Monkey]

All in all, a fabulous lesson for all when things don't go properly in life, especially for kids and their ' Hockey/Baseball Das and Moms' who make asses of themesleves at every weekend pee wee game, crying about one call/sleight after another.

Bottom line: Would you want Selig to have the power to overturn a crucial blown call at the end of the 7th. game of the W.S. and reverse the winner ?


Great post Rook. I coached for 13 years, umped and reffed for 8. That first paragrph really gave me a laugh. So true!!

I agree. We can't give that power to Bud. The goal is to get it right on the field and the only way to do that is instant replay. I realize that the length of the games is a problem already, but if you got the umps to call the strike zone the way the rule was written (armpits to knee), games would be a half hour shorter.

[Dave Schwartz]

As a purist, I have been outraged over the years by how impure things have become.

For example, go all the way back to the George Brett pine tar incident. That was, to my knowledge, the first time a baseball commissioner corrected a play that the umpires got right.

Was it a stupid call? Well, I don't know, but it was correct! It absolutely was according to the rules. (BTW, the entire "continuation" game was just a great story in itself. It demonstrates, again, how smart and respected Billy Martin was.)

To me, one of the great things about baseball has always been the imperfection in the umpires' calls. It goes to the very core of baseball and, more importantly, to the core of any baseball fan's heart. I mean, yelling at the umpire for "missing a great game" is just part of baseball.

Of course, since the umpires' union has been broken, the quality of officiating has gone into the crapper anyway. Maybe these guys actually NEED the instant replay to get it consistently right.

[Space Monkey]

Of course, since the umpires' union has been broken, the quality of officiating has gone into the crapper anyway. Maybe these guys actually NEED the instant replay to get it consistently right

:eek: :eek: Holy Shit Batman, somebodies taken over Dave's identity :eek: :eek:

I,,,errr, agree with you on all points!!!

I can't elaborate because it doesn't belong here and I've vowed to stay out of discussions on topics like the one I would bring up. :)

[cj's dad]

He even mentioned that the K finishing off Don Larsen's perfecto was a foot high and outside. It went to a batter that had about, a miniscule 133KS out of 4,000 ABs and the umpire himself finished off his own career with THAT call!


FWIW-I was a mere child at the time (8) and my Mom was a stay at home person as 99% of women were at that time. I got home from school and being as much of a fan as a child can be she MADE me sit down and watch the last 1-2 innings of larsen's perfect game. I do remember that the last batter was dale Mitchell and that the pitch was high and up. I also remember Yogi's jumping into Don's arms. That's it, after that I went out and played.

[Dave Schwartz]

SpaceMonkey, I am not sure I understand your meaning but at least we got THIS call right!

[WeirdWilly]

Of course, since the umpires' union has been broken, the quality of officiating has gone into the crapper anyway. Maybe these guys actually NEED the instant replay to get it consistently right.

Coming soon - The Umpirebot 2KX


http://www.dreamagic.com/roger/robocop3.gif

[Space Monkey]

SpaceMonkey, I am not sure I understand your meaning but at least we got THIS call right!

I was pokin fun at the old political battles. Not many conservatives have any good things to say about unions :lol: :lol:

[Dave Schwartz]

I don't want to turn this into a political thread but I will say this:

There have been times in our history when unions were the only way that workers got any protection from exploitation because the companies were such big, bad guys.

MLB is one of those "big, bad guys."

Now, IMHO, unions are often also bad guys.

[Space Monkey]

No,No,No,,,NO POLITICS!!! I will agree with you again. The problem is that the "union thing" has come full circle. Recent mining and oil rig disasters are proof. I just want whats right for the blue collar AMERICAN worker. I'll leave it at that.

Good talking to you Dave.

[Rookies]

I don't want to turn this into a political thread but I will say this:

There have been times in our history when unions were the only way that workers got any protection from exploitation because the companies were such big, bad guys.

MLB is one of those "big, bad guys."

Now, IMHO, unions are often also bad guys.

Re: #71
"I will not post on the Net after drinking heavily,
"I will not post on the Net after drinking heavily,
"I will not post on the Net after drinking heavily,
...etc... 30

Man that was error filled.:lol:

Back to your post Dave, as much as I love ball, MLB was undoubtedly for a very, very long time a VERY BIG & BAD GUY. It mirrored American society as a terrible, racist org, who thought of itself as akin to a Southern plantation owner of the antebellum years.

And even after finally being brought to reality kicking and screaming through # 42, it still believed it had the god given right to treat its players, regardless of colour, like indentured slaves/ chattels. Curt Flood and one of the greatest labour leaders ever- Marvin Miller, are heroes to me just like Mickey & the Kid...

Oh and # 29 :ThmbUp:

Now the 2–2. Well hit, down the left field line! Way back and gone! Joe Carter with a three-run homer! The winners—and still world champions—the Toronto Blue Jays!
—Sean McDonough (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_McDonough) calling on Joe Carter's home run.
Here's the pitch on the way, a swing and a belt! Left field! Way back! Blue Jays win it! The Blue Jays are World Series champions as Joe Carter hits a three-run home run in the ninth inning and the Blue Jays have repeated as World Series Champions! Touch 'em all, Joe, you'll never hit a bigger home run in your life!
—Blue Jays radio announcer Tom Cheek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Cheek) on the same moment as McDonough above.
As for the Umps, more needs to be done in every sport to ensure that the best are judgeing games as competently as possible! I have some very, non union ideas on the NFL, as a result of watching old, semi blind, fat stiffs who cannot keep up with the game.

As in...

NFL Standards for Officials

Of course, there isn't any ! These old, fat, blind septuagenarians simply can't cut it in a high speed game.

For the past decade, this is my solution.

1) Hire fulltime officials @ $100k per annum.
2) EVERY new hire must be a recent Phyzz Ed Grad in great shape and
preferably played NCAA Division 1 Football.
3) Serious Knowledge AND conditioning testing before hiring.
4) Serious weekly/ yearly evaluations of performance. Failures are FIRED !
5) Digital Cameras everywhere, including the sidelines and goal line.
6) Paid spotters to watch the cameras VERY instant.

This would be a good start to having quality officiating to a billion dollar game. A crew like X would never make it to the next weekend, if I was in charge.

Yes, I have lost a few buck$ on these calls...;)