Will Aqueduct survive or is the Wrecking Ball around the corner?

[Igeteven]

Will Aqueduct survive or the Wreaking Ball is around the corner?


Here in California, the wreaking ball is ready for Hollywood Park, when it will come down, who knows. Some say this year, some say next year.

How about Aqueduct, I heard the track is falling apart and nobody is fixing nothing.

Well East Coast people , any inside scoop.

[MaTH716]

Will Aqueduct survive or the Wreaking Ball is around the corner?


Here in California, the wreaking ball is ready for Hollywood Park, when it will come down, who knows. Some say this year, some say next year.

How about Aqueduct, I heard the track is falling apart and nobody is fixing nothing.

Well East Coast people , any inside scoop.
You would think that if they could ever get the VLT contract in place, major improvements to the venue would be on the horizon. Unfortunately if Albany can't get this mess straightened out (which it's all their fault to begin with) then the worst case scenarios are possible.

[jamey1977]

You would think that if they could ever get the VLT contract in place, major improvements to the venue would be on the horizon. Unfortunately if Albany can't get this mess straightened out (which it's all their fault to begin with) then the worst case scenarios are possible.
We do not give up. We are still trying to save Hollywood Park. Join the Save Hollywood Park group. Go to their web page. We must not just step to the side and let these fat pig real estate developers raze everything and not even put anything up . Bay Meadows is still a pile of rubble because of these fat pigs. No one will give Meany a loan. This guy named Meany operates on loans, that's nice. Tear everything down and wait for the loan to be approved. This is crap and we are still fighting this. It's never over and we never give up. Fat Cat developers are fat pigs.

[LottaKash]

Will Aqueduct survive or the Wreaking Ball is around the corner?.................How about Aqueduct, I heard the track is falling apart and nobody is fixing nothing. .

LET ER' RIP, Nellie....:jump: :jump: :jump:

[Robert Goren]

More of the same old crap, VLTs are NOT going save horse racing. You just need to look at what killing horse racing. It is the takeout.

[the little guy]

LET ER' RIP, Nellie....:jump: :jump: :jump:


When was the last time you visited Aqueduct?

[Igeteven]

When was the last time you visited Aqueduct?


I have never been there, but I have heard stories, that the place is falling apart

[WinterTriangle]

I have never been there, but I have heard stories, that the place is falling apart

Stories don't do it for me.

However, didn't somebody post some pictures, either here or link to another site?

I WOULD trust the opinion of a good structural engineer. Seedy-looking is one thing, unsound infrastructure would be another.

[Grits]

I have never been there, but I have heard stories, that the place is falling apart

Its the internet, its life, its folks that have nothing positive to offer, IGE. Darlin' don't believe everything you read, or hear. I know you don't in real time, so why should you here?

There are tracks across the country that may go by way of attrition, and that's not a bad thing. I don't think, at this point though, anyone on an internet messageboard is in a position to make the call on who will (or should) stand, and who will (or should) fall. In other words, no CEOs or track owners have come forward and told us anything definitive.

[classhandicapper]

Aqueduct is in better shape now that it used to be, but it's nothing like it was a couple of decades ago. I went every Saturday and Sunday for years, but now only go when I have an extra voucher to cash from the Belmont meet.

The real estate should probably be used for something that could generate more jobs and income for the local community (and I don't mean slot machines). Perhaps they could create a classy simulcast center as part of larger project and use the rest for other things.

Eliminating winter racing won't be a popular idea with many horsemen (or bias and trainer players in NY :lol:), but it might be a good idea.

[LottaKash]

When was the last time you visited Aqueduct?

TLG, a very long time ago, maybe 5-years ago....Never was impressed by the joint...Never....On the last visit the bathrooms were dirty, and the tellers were rude, and it was a ghostown by yesteryear's standards....Hey, I have been to many, many racetracks a time or two thru the years, and the Big-A never was my cup of tea, even when it was civilized...Let er rip....

I am not trying to be smug or arrogant about it, it is just that I have always preferred Belmont over the Big-A, I guess...

Just like the baseball teams, I grew up a die hard Yankee Kid, and the Mets & Jets, who needsem...One track per breed and one team is enough for any city, even in the Big Apple, of which I have always been a devoted and loving fan...Heck, I used to live in Manhattan for a spell, and on S.I. as well...I love NYC, not the Big-A tho..never...

best,

[the little guy]

I hear you. Aueduct is what it is....a city racetrack. People have been dumping on it since I first started going in the mid 70s. Of course I agree with you as it relates to Belmont. Belmont is a beautiful place. But, I like Aqueduct and always have. Ever since I moved to NYC in the mid 80s I always thought it was cool that there was a racetrack you could take the subway to. No doubt it needs work ( I know...this is an understatement ) and we'll get there. But it's my home for six months every year and I truly enjoy being there. For me, the nicest thing is that being that the area that is open is relatively small, you basically get to easily spend time with the people there, and I really enjoy our core Aqueduct customers. Now that we're at Belmont, much as I love the place, I don't see my friends as often, and I miss that.

[cj's dad]

I have never been to the Big A. Having said that, as one who works as a construction inspector, if the foundation is good, the facility can ALWAYS be improved.

ALL condemnations are a result of foundation/structural problems, not infra-structure issues, i.e. plumbing, electrical, ventilation etc...

The big A folks (whoever they are) can make this a 1st class facility if the $$$ are available and the state of NY cares to do so.

JMO from 200+ miles away.

[philcski]

Will Aqueduct survive or the Wreaking Ball is around the corner?


Here in California, the wreaking ball is ready for Hollywood Park, when it will come down, who knows. Some say this year, some say next year.

How about Aqueduct, I heard the track is falling apart and nobody is fixing nothing.

Well East Coast people , any inside scoop.

I like Aqueduct. The functional areas are in fine shape. Hell, the Equestris restaurant is damn nice, I love sitting there. The nooks that nobody goes to are shitty, sure, but that's like any other large facility. The clientele is, well... interesting at times, but you can find plenty of people that shower daily and can carry on a conversation.

Never been to Hollywood for a live meet, but every time I've been in it I feel it's criminal that they want to close it. Really like that place.

[46zilzal]

When was the last time you visited Aqueduct?
If I were closer it would be more recently than seeing Pebbles winning the Breeders Cup Turf....

[thespaah]

More of the same old crap, VLTs are NOT going save horse racing. You just need to look at what killing horse racing. It is the takeout.Takeout....ahh boy..
Ok...this is what I will ask you to do...Next time you go to the track, take the time to ask 10 people if they (a) know what a takeout is; (B) what the percentage is on win bets; (C) actually care about the takeout; (D)would bet nmore if thye found out the takeout was lowered..
No asking only those in your deomographic. Take a wider sampling.
It may take 15 minutes out of your day at the races.
Get back to the thread with your answers.

[thespaah]

When was the last time you visited Aqueduct?
POsters have placed pictures of Aqueduct's grandstand. Those photos have depeicted a building in disrepair.
To be fair, I have not seen photos from less than a couple of years ago.
Question: is the facility going under renovations/repairs?

[MickJ26]

If Aqueduct does meet the wrecking ball, it'll be because of the criminals in Albany. The VLT's can and will save Aqueduct, just look at Yonkers.

[castaway01]

I agree with Mick...VLTs may not save horse racing, if the revenue from them is ever pulled from purse money, but they can literally save Aqueduct. If that track ever gets the long-ago-passed VLTs, they will be in great shape for as long as most of us are gambling.

[rwwupl]

Takeout....ahh boy..
Ok...this is what I will ask you to do...Next time you go to the track, take the time to ask 10 people if they (a) know what a takeout is; (B) what the percentage is on win bets; (C) actually care about the takeout; (D)would bet nmore if thye found out the takeout was lowered..
No asking only those in your deomographic. Take a wider sampling.
It may take 15 minutes out of your day at the races.
Get back to the thread with your answers.


Same tired old response to take out, by people who live from it or have been told by those who live from it.

No one cares what it is...

No one can tell you what it is...

Your argument is full of holes...you love the status quo, Why?...I guess you think things are going so well. Do you read the news?

--------------------------------------------------------------
It is the dividing point between winning and losing at the Pari-mutuels for customers...

The Take out plus rebates is the cost of the bet to racings customers

If the Take out does not matter,why not double it and racing(and purses) would make twice as much money?...get competitive with the Lottery...no one cares.

Ha Ha

Customers KNOW if they win or lose,they may not know why, but can not quote take out figures. Can you without looking them up? I know, I know you don't care.

Racings fan base is shrinking because the fans know they can not win, you must send home some winners or they will go to gambling elsewhere.

Why do you think Racing is begging for help from other venues to support purses?

Many Horsemen and backstretch people can not tell you where the purses come from, but they are glad to get their share and want more.

Any Racetrack in financial trouble, and does not lower the cost to the customer IS NOT TRYING.

I understand there are some people who will never be convinced of the power of simple economics...but economics will rule the day for horse racing at the bottom line, if anyone cares or not.

[thespaah]

Same tired old response to take out, by people who live from it or have been told by those who live from it.

No one cares what it is...

No one can tell you what it is...

Your argument is full of holes...you love the status quo, Why?...I guess you think things are going so well. Do you read the news?

--------------------------------------------------------------
It is the dividing point between winning and losing at the Pari-mutuels for customers...

The Take out plus rebates is the cost of the bet to racings customers

If the Take out does not matter,why not double it and racing(and purses) would make twice as much money?...get competitive with the Lottery...no one cares.

Ha Ha

Customers KNOW if they win or lose,they may not know why, but can not quote take out figures. Can you without looking them up? I know, I know you don't care.

Racings fan base is shrinking because the fans know they can not win, you must send home some winners or they will go to gambling elsewhere.

Why do you think Racing is begging for help from other venues to support purses?

Many Horsemen and backstretch people can not tell you where the purses come from, but they are glad to get their share and want more.

Any Racetrack in financial trouble, and does not lower the cost to the customer IS NOT TRYING.

I understand there are some people who will never be convinced of the power of simple economics...but economics will rule the day for horse racing at the bottom line, if anyone cares or not.
Holy macaroni..Why is it that when someone presents a point of view or a factual argument those on the other side take it as a personal affront?
First, I was not refering to myself.
I was presenting my stance on a general front.
And the questions still stand.
Yes, big money players, those wagering thousands each day have a deep intersest in takeout because the cost of the bets effects their ROI and it effects their sometimes very thin profit margins.
I understand completely.
That however is NOT the issue of the thread.
Goren added the highly volatile issue of takeout. Tossing that aside, we're going back to discuussing what measures racetrack managements need to take to get people to the track, introduce the sport to new people and keep them coming back.
The bigger bettors will always be there. Betting the races is their vocation.
I'll say this one more time. I would like nothing better than to see the cost of wagering greatly reduced. I also think racetrack managements should get off their asses and treat their largest players to perks and extras just as the casinos do.
Yes, I would have to look up takeout figures. So what? Does that make me less of a person?
BTW, I avoiude wagers on bets with high takeouts. For example, I wouls never bet a trifecta at Penn National because the takeout is a ridiculous 30%
That means my $2 bet is really $1.40.....That is robbery.
I remeber when NYRA reduced thier WPS takeout ot 15%. They made a big deal out of it and ran ads all over the place. I thought it was a fantastic idea. I believe the old rate was 19%.
So don't get all spun up thinking you "got me " on soemthing.
I didn't come here to argue and this isn't the Palestinian Peace Talks.
I presented a point of view and some facts as I know them.
I countered with an idea and you came out of left field with this wiseassed response. Not necessary.
I am perfectly happy to keep the discussion within the bounds of civility. So as long as we're discussing instead of arguing.

[BillW]

Takeout....ahh boy..
Ok...this is what I will ask you to do...Next time you go to the track, take the time to ask 10 people if they (a) know what a takeout is; (B) what the percentage is on win bets; (C) actually care about the takeout; (D)would bet nmore if thye found out the takeout was lowered..
No asking only those in your deomographic. Take a wider sampling.
It may take 15 minutes out of your day at the races.
Get back to the thread with your answers.

The point you are missing is that regardless of the awareness of takeout the bettor walks out with more money in his pocket at the end of the day. He may think it's because he is a better horseplayer - he doesn't have to know it is because of reduced takeout. As a result he may come back to the track more (and play more while he is there) if he is leaving the track broke less often.

[Robert Goren]

I agree with Mick...VLTs may not save horse racing, if the revenue from them is ever pulled from purse money, but they can literally save Aqueduct. If that track ever gets the long-ago-passed VLTs, they will be in great shape for as long as most of us are gambling. Aqueduct with VLTs and without the horse racing would be a great business.;) If they get VLTs why in the world would they have horse racing. Horse racing and slots is combination made in Hell. It doesn't work well for either one. JMO

[philcski]

The point you are missing is that regardless of the awareness of takeout the bettor walks out with more money in his pocket at the end of the day. He may think it's because he is a better horseplayer - he doesn't have to know it is because of reduced takeout. As a result he may come back to the track more (and play more while he is there) if he is leaving the track broke less often.

Here's the fallacy of that argument for the "average" customer, someone that doesn't know or care about differences in takeout percentages (and in no way am I advocating high takeout): if he comes in with $50, bets $5 WP, churns through it twice for a total handle of $100, and is an "average" bettor, he ends up with $35.28 in his pocket at the end of the day at a 16% takeout versus $32 at a 20% takeout. Do you think that person notices the $3.28 difference? Unlikely. Does he notice that his dime super that paid $100 at a 25% takeout would have paid $120 at 20%? Definitely not. He's just happy he won. The real question is whether that "average" customer takes the extra $3.28 or $20 and puts it back through the windows. While this has been proven to be a resounding "yes", telling a layman that takeout has been reduced from 20% to 10% doesn't make him into a new customer.

[shouldacoulda]

telling a layman that takeout has been reduced from 20% to 10% doesn't make him into a new customer.
You hit the nail on the head with the VLT issue. New customers. The casinos and the racetracks are competing for the same "gambling" dollars. Wouldn't it make sense to have (not to be a sexist) the men play the ponies while the wives play the VLT's. More money in would help keep takeouts lower considering slots payoff less than 20% of the time. It could be a real boost for the area with the airport right there if they put in a full fledged casino/hotel with the track.

[onefast99]

You hit the nail on the head with the VLT issue. New customers. The casinos and the racetracks are competing for the same "gambling" dollars. Wouldn't it make sense to have (not to be a sexist) the men play the ponies while the wives play the VLT's. More money in would help keep takeouts lower considering slots payoff less than 20% of the time. It could be a real boost for the area with the airport right there if they put in a full fledged casino/hotel with the track.
Once you add the table games you then take away from people betting on the horses.