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Show Me the Wire
07-30-2003, 11:13 PM
I find it a bit tiresome and annoying about:

the compulsion to announce that the PA board no longer meets your expectaions, no longer satisfies your needs and as a result you have no alternative but to leave.

If anyone truly feels participating on this board is a waste of time by all means you should be doing something more constructive with your time.

Just leave, there is no need for a farewell tour or speech. Do you really think it is important to the majority of posters if you participate or not? If you do you must have a large ego or an inflated sense of self-worth. Please remember If you leave the majority of posters and lurkers do not care and we have to shift through the off point post about leaving to read all those relavant on point posts.


Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

GameTheory
07-31-2003, 02:09 AM
Ha ha... I just came to this section with the intention of posting the above!

Where does the compulsion to have this Nixonesque "You won't have me to kick around any more" speech to announce your departure? (SWTW -- didn't *you* make such a speech once in the "duck out of water" thread? Or was that a joke?) I suspect the poster really wants to be talked out of it, as most of them end up sticking around anyway.


Another annoying trend is the, "Why are we talking about this? Doesn't everyone know this already?" post. That is, we're only allowed to talk about stuff that the poster happens to interested in. How is someone supposed to gain knowledge if they're not allowed to ask about something? Just because you know something already doesn't mean everyone else does. Is there a minimum requirement of horse racing knowledge one must have before they can post?


I would only request that people ask themselves the following question before submitting any post: "Does this actually contribute anything, or is merely for reasons to do with my own ego that I am submitting it?" If the latter, then don't post it.

I probably abandon 20% of the posts I start to write after I think to myself, "What is the point of this exactly?" That's right, I'm this big of a blowhard even AFTER restraining myself!

Show Me the Wire
07-31-2003, 05:59 AM
QUOTE]Originally posted by GameTheory
Ha ha... I just came to this section with the intention of posting the above!

Where does the compulsion to have this Nixonesque "You won't have me to kick around any more" speech to announce your departure? (SWTW -- didn't *you* make such a speech once in the "duck out of water" thread? Or was that a joke?) I suspect the poster really wants to be talked out of it, as most of them end up sticking around anyway.

[/QUOTE]

GT:

I do not recall stating I was contemplating leaving the board in that particular thread. I mentioned the fact I did leave the board for a while (but nobody really knew as I did not publicly announce my departure). The other statement I made about quitting referred to that I would discontinue posting that particular thread. I meant to communicate, since there was a lack of feedback, I was not sure if I was actually contributing or boring the community. However my choice of words probably added confusion instead of clarity about my intentions.

I am guilty of jokingly saying I was going to jump on the bandwagon, with Larry in the "A bit tiresome post".

Putting this post in perspective. Yes, I did leave this board for an extended period of time. Did anyone really notice and did anyone really care? Maybe some did as I have noticed a few posters have drifted away. But I believe the majority of PA posters and lurkers did not notice or care. Nobody e-mailed me saying, "Gee Show Me the Wire, I noticed you have not participated in two plus months and I miss your insightful posts, what happened?”. Maybe they did not notice because I did not publicly chastise the members for their behavior and their failings to live up to some preconceived notion of what is proper subject matter and as a result I must leave.

What happened, I left with a little assistance from PA. I notified PA of my desire to be removed from active membership and I must say PA did care about my leaving. As it turns out I returned without fanfare too.

Based on my experience, it is my belief, PA runs an excellent board and if anybody doesn't think this board measures up to some standard, well you are wrong. Further deciding to leave, stay or return is not a life changing decision. This board is for the possible exchange of ideas, the pleasure of talking about horse, the making of acquaintances, and entertainment.

Additionally, I have to agree with L,C. sometimes we need a diversion as all horse play (pun- groan) can become repetitive and boring.

My request is if we, at PA, do not meet your expectations or satisfy your needs spare us the public lecture about our failure to keep on point and move on to a better place.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

alysheba88
07-31-2003, 09:44 AM
Announcing ones departure from a posting forum is akin to being at one's own funeral. I think thats the motivation for many behind the annoucement. To hear what words get spoken on their behalf. I do understand people get frustrated and sometimes they think by announcing it they will get through to some people. To me its just better to fade away if you are not happy. If things turn around and the reasons for you not posting are gone you can then return. Nothing is forever as they say. Well except dying.

andicap
07-31-2003, 11:45 AM
As long as we're venting here....

My complaint is about people who complain about other people's posts.
We have something called an "IGNORE" button. Don't like L.C.'s "Grampa sez" posts, hit the IGNORE button and they magically disappear! It worked wonders with Ray Gordon and ITM.

Relatedly,
I don't believe First Amendment protection applies to this board -- It's like a newspaper and PA is the editor. He can publish, edit, censor whatever he wishes. Sometimes I agree with his decisions, sometimes he infuriates me

(like why in the hell is he leaving those dumb threads up in the handicapping section. If he insists on keeping them up, at least move them to "Off Topic." PA, what's going on here???)

But he runs an excellent board at his expense and he can censor whoever the hell he wants to and I'll support him to the hilt.

One reason I suspect he does not ask for contributions is because once people start giving money they will want a voice in running the board. That would be the beginning of anarchy and the end of the board. It only works with a dictator. A newspaper can have only one editor-in-chief and PA is it. End of story.
I've been a newspaper editor and had many arguments with reporters. In the end, I always won. No ifs, ands and buts. (Sometimes I changed my mind, but it was always my decision to do so.)

so.cal.fan
07-31-2003, 01:03 PM
Alysheba88 writes:

"Announcing ones departure from a posting forum is akin to being at one's own funeral. I think thats the motivation for many behind the annoucement. To hear what words get spoken on their behalf. I do understand people get frustrated and sometimes they think by announcing it they will get through to some people. To me its just better to fade away if you are not happy. If things turn around and the reasons for you not posting are gone you can then return. Nothing is forever as they say. Well except dying."

There actually was a woman on another forum who "feigned" her own death!



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Suff
07-31-2003, 03:49 PM
Is this about Dave Schwatrz's post? I suppose it is, as that is the only anouncement I saw....

Whats so upsetting about it?

Did you think Dave was looking for attention?

Did you think Dave was being Dramatic?

Did you think Dave was pouting?

I did'nt ...

The Board means alot to him ( and many others) and he was Bothered by having to depart. Dave has a strong relationship with this Board and Many members.... He in all honestly , he was probably hurt....that he was unhappy enough he felt he had to move on. And he shared that Frustration.

I know Dave a bit....and maybe you think I'm a Nitwit and the following will mean nothing to you....

Dave is enormously busy, and has plenty of people that want his time. He's not attention Starved.

Dave is a Grown man.....he does'nt pout.

Dave was not being Dramatic. He's a Human being that was struggling with a decision.....and he turned to people here to get it off his chest.

If you don't agree with his style......You can at least agree, he's a very good horse player.... has contributed tons to this Board and is a Fixture here...and an asset.

If some does'nt directly attack you.....or others constantly , how they express themselves is not a topic you want to get into to.

Thats Personal. Some are suggesting that just IGNORING people is the key to Harmony here. If you don't like the way Dave expressed himself why are'nt you just ignoring him?

so.cal.fan
07-31-2003, 03:55 PM
It wasn't my point, Suf......
Just couldn't pass the chance to "bust" the fake death of a weird woman.......I'm sure she reads this board, if not posts on it, under whatever.....LOL:
Dave and SMTW were just trying to make a point, call attention to the quality of posts.....I think.........both these men are obviously credible and major assets to this forum.
As for my post.............

To Buffy, wherever/whoever you are......:p :p :p

Suff
07-31-2003, 04:01 PM
So cal

I was speaking in general.... I was'nt pointing my comments directly at the 3 or 4 people in this thread....

I have seen a few stingers in another thread too....that announcing your departure was .........?

What I see people saying is

"If you don;t like it here , screw!"

Whats that? Thats rough. Is that what we wanna do here?

If your unhappy... Just shut up and leave?


IMHO.... If Schwartz moved on...... it really will cut into our talent pool. I'm of the thinking that if we (or PA) can make some changes to keep Scwartz happy without upsetting the apple cart....he should do that.

Dave Schwartz
07-31-2003, 07:09 PM
Suff,

Thanks for the intervention on my behalf.

But you must be careful or someone will be suggesting that we are one and the same. (A future post - "Think back... even at Saratoga, did you ACTUALLY see them in the same tent at the same time?")

Of course, the Red Sox thing kind of saves me from that, I think. <G> (I said I liked FENWAY PARK, not... well, you know.)

But seriously, folks... Suff is actually right on the money.

It is really very simple. Some of us DO care about PA, beyond it simply being a place to talk about horses. To some of us it really is a home of sorts. We feel we belong.

That doesn't mean that everyone has to feel THAT strongly about it, but I suggest that there are plenty of us that would really miss this community if it were gone... or changed to the point where it was no longer a pleasant place to be.

And I hold up as evidence of that the handful of top posters. ANd I don't mean the "top 10." Look a little deeper than that. Go down to say 21st-30th. Just pick out a few names... (If you don't know how to do this, just click on the "Members" button at the top of this page and click "Top 10 Posters.")

SQ764 - Someone that I personally have never really connected with... I don't know why. But when he makes a post, it is usually worth listening to.

Ffast - He and I often differ in opinions, but his opinions are never without merit.

Superfecta - Here's a classic. We've clashed on several occasions, yet like the other two I'd sure miss his opinions.

Gee, it seems I don't get along with anyone, huh? I guess I need to talk with a therapist. <G> But I digress...

Well, my point is that to many people this board IS a community that matters to them. Perhaps the best example of this is PA himself.

Now, maybe some of you think we should "get a life." Well, guess what? I've got a life and the PaceAdvantage community is part of it. I like it that way and I'd like to see it survive. I don't mean continue to "exist," I mean "thrive."

And those of you that might think this is all a personal agenda on my part... fine. Don't count me. But ask yourself, "What are the personal agendas of the other top posters?"

Just my opinion.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

PS: My funeral was last Tuesday. I think it was the free KFC bucket of chicken that made for the great turn out.

Derek2U
07-31-2003, 07:43 PM
Whats all this leaving about? I must of missed the reasons for
DS to leave. So, will some1 please fill me in by Email or PM.
At any rate, I will pay PA for a boot button cause I got my eye on
2 MissCreants that I want banished. SighAnara DS ... i will miss
your many posts --- and as 4 the rest of U, no habla ingles.

alysheba88
07-31-2003, 07:56 PM
Just for the record, my posts in here had zero to do with Dave. Were just general comments about stuff I have seen on several different posting forums.

I havent been here long but have enjoyed Dave's posts and have in another thread already stated I wish he would stay.

Dave Schwartz
07-31-2003, 08:02 PM
alysheba,

Thanks for the clarification. I took your post as neither offensive nor aimed particularly at me. That is why I had not responded previously.

On the other hand, I could not let Suff take all the heat for something I may have "started" (which, btw, was not my intention in the first place- I was simply explaining my need for a funeral, er, mean hiatus <G>).


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Suff
07-31-2003, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by Derek2U
So, will some1 please fill me in by Email or PM.
At any rate, I will pay PA for a boot button cause I got my eye on
2 MissCreants that I want banished. .

You don't answer e-mails or PM's.....at least not mine or Andicaps.. ...So? Why solicit them?

Show Me the Wire
07-31-2003, 09:02 PM
Suff:

Dave was not the only person to post he was leaving, JimG was the most recent when I wrote my post. Yes, Dave was the first and then it continues.

I do not wish to have anyone leave or banned, but if someone chooses to leave, I do not feel there is a need for an announcement and a lecture of how the board has failed to sustain his interest. Yes, every time someone leaves, the board is diminshed by what could have been contributed to by that person, a missed opportunity for everyone. My post is not aimed at any specific person, but at this idea of announcing to everyone you are leaving becuase the rest of the community is not up to your standards.

I agree with you Suff this board is part of everyone's life that posts here. If someone wants to leave and he may want to seek reinsurance it may be better to pm or e-mail some PA buddies to discuss your feelings rather than post to the entire board.

As always.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

Tom
07-31-2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by so.cal.fan
Alysheba88 writes:


There actually was a woman on another forum who "feigned" her own death!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

BUT.....is she back?
I think so.
A vampire? No, but close?
Hmmmm.

Tom
07-31-2003, 09:36 PM
I didn't post for 22 hours recently, and not one of you sent me an email to see if I was OK.
22! hours and no one cared.
Soooo, I am now officially quitting.
Good bye! :mad:

Suff
07-31-2003, 10:29 PM
Can you loan me 2 bucks to play an exacta before you go?

GameTheory
08-01-2003, 03:21 AM
I wasn't talking about Dave S. either, because Dave never said he was leaving. He said he was taking a break, etc, and expressed valid concerns over the future of PA. I agree with Dave completely.

But JimG (and others in the past) saying something to the effect of, "Well, everyone, you've driven me away. The camel's back has been broken. I hope you're satisfied! I'll leave the rest of you to fester here, but I for one have come to the conclusion that this place is no longer worth *my* time." is just pointless egoism & compliment-fishing, if you ask me. A desire to get off a parting shot by someone feeling bitterness who is probably a little annoyed no one noticed he was bitter. In a word, an 100% EGO post. Get over yourself.

Dave's comments had nothing much to do with ego, I think.

Dave Schwartz
08-01-2003, 06:00 PM
I picked this up from Joel Spolsky's "Joel on Software" site. It was a quote from one of the discussion group (bbs) members in regards to the bbs:

"The forum is great because you attracted a group of thoughtful people who can write clearly. No flames. No all caps. No crap. Little HTML showing where it shouldn't. No one replying just to be the first to reply."

Is it utopia? Probably not. But it is an interactivew environment where people of like mind (that phrase, again) can go to share ideas.


Okay, I'll stop now.

Dave

Derek2U
08-01-2003, 07:19 PM
Thanks for the tip on joel's room cause so far this room PA has
no equal. But hey who says theres only one horse room in your
life? I like the diversity here & ur intelectuals are tolerable too.
PA has a the right mix for me but why don't you plan on coming
back here soon & telling us all the insiders feel for joels room?
DJC

Dave Schwartz
08-01-2003, 10:09 PM
Derek,

I think you're on those meds again.


Dave

Show Me the Wire
08-01-2003, 10:33 PM
Dave:

Could you post the URL for Joel's room so we can add a little diversity to it?

Just a thought, I think being like-minded would stifle creativity.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

JimG
08-02-2003, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by GameTheory

But JimG (and others in the past) saying something to the effect of, "Well, everyone, you've driven me away. The camel's back has been broken. I hope you're satisfied! I'll leave the rest of you to fester here, but I for one have come to the conclusion that this place is no longer worth *my* time." is just pointless egoism & compliment-fishing, if you ask me. A desire to get off a parting shot by someone feeling bitterness who is probably a little annoyed no one noticed he was bitter. In a word, an 100% EGO post. Get over yourself.



GT,

You read an awful lot into a post that said I was leaving due to frustration over replies that have nothing to do with the original topic.

Actually I was just having a bad day in general and I "went off" a little. I can't remember ever having any words with you since I started posting on this board many years ago so I'm not sure why you have painted me as a shallow, egotistical person. To my knowledge, you do not know me well enough to make that assessment. At any rate, I'm just a person who loves playing the horses...period.

Jim

MarylandPaul@HSH
08-03-2003, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by Dave Schwartz
PS: My funeral was last Tuesday. I think it was the free KFC bucket of chicken that made for the great turn out.

I missed your funeral? Damn...

Is there any chicken left?

MP

GameTheory
08-03-2003, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by JimG
GT,

You read an awful lot into a post that said I was leaving due to frustration over replies that have nothing to do with the original topic.

Actually I was just having a bad day in general and I "went off" a little. I can't remember ever having any words with you since I started posting on this board many years ago so I'm not sure why you have painted me as a shallow, egotistical person. To my knowledge, you do not know me well enough to make that assessment. At any rate, I'm just a person who loves playing the horses...period.

Jim


I didn't intend to paint you as a shallow, egotistical person. I don't have a negative opinion of you at all. But you made an egotistical post, IMO, that's all. My comment is on that one single post, not on your entire being. You basically said it yourself -- you had a bad day and went off. It happens. It is not a big deal, really. I was really talking about the general trend, as we've seen many similar annoucements in the past.

Anyway, I see that you're "back", and I hope you stick around...

Dave Schwartz
08-03-2003, 06:32 AM
Paul,

No chicken.


Sincerely,
The Zombie