Can a top trainer 'undercut' other trainers in 'fees'?

[Stillriledup]

Is a trainer allowed to contact a rich owner with tons of horses and tell him that he'll train all his horses and give him a 'cut' of any purses monies that he wins? In other words, not take a full trainers share and let the owner have the extra money? If i was an owner with dozens of horses, i'd be looking for a better 'deal' than just giving the trainer the standard 'fee' for an in the money finish.

[Brogan]

A trainer can make(offer) any deal he wants.

[lamboguy]

mike gill's trainers trained his horses for $1000 a week and 5% of the purse. i think frank calabreese's trainers are similar.

shug has been traing horses for many years for the ogden phipps family, his deal may be somewhat similar, but his horses are all top notch stock and running in big races for big purses most of the time.

the worst thing today is that some jockey's and their agents might be kicking back their trainers to get on good horses. jockeys get paid directly from the track the money comes out of the purses. trainers get paid from the owners.

personally, i pay the trainer the full 10% of the purse for 1st and 2nd and no further. some trainers will try to charge all the way down to 5th. i let the trainers pick their riders, but i don't allow kickbacks

[Brogan]

i let the trainers pick their riders, but i don't allow kickbacks
How can you monitor this?

[tbwinner]

If an owner has good quality racing stock (and several horses), no doubt is he going to get a better "deal" than a guy with a $15k claimer.

Most trainers will take a lower day rate with a 10% (or less) for top-3 purse cut for larger owners. The more horses a guy has, most likely the lower day rate (per horse) and purse take.

My arrangement with my trainer that has 3 claimers of mine is the day rate ($70/day-arlington, $80-churchill), 10% on wins, 7.5% through 4th. He has his regular jockies that he uses, that I have no problem with. The partnerships I'm involved with both have a day rate arrangement and 10% of all purses (no doubt there is a kickback to the manager with this one on one of the partnerships).

[Hanover1]

If an owner has good quality racing stock (and several horses), no doubt is he going to get a better "deal" than a guy with a $15k claimer.

Most trainers will take a lower day rate with a 10% (or less) for top-3 purse cut for larger owners. The more horses a guy has, most likely the lower day rate (per horse) and purse take.

My arrangement with my trainer that has 3 claimers of mine is the day rate ($70/day-arlington, $80-churchill), 10% on wins, 7.5% through 4th. He has his regular jockies that he uses, that I have no problem with. The partnerships I'm involved with both have a day rate arrangement and 10% of all purses (no doubt there is a kickback to the manager with this one on one of the partnerships).
I offered my owners with lesser stock a modest rate, combined with 10% off the top of all earnings. Owners that were strapped with nomination/sustaining fees with stake horses got a different deal. A higher day rate, but reduced takeout on earnings, only taking out for 1-2-3 spots.

[Mineshaft]

mike gill's trainers trained his horses for $1000 a week and 5% of the purse. i think frank calabreese's trainers are similar.

shug has been traing horses for many years for the ogden phipps family, his deal may be somewhat similar, but his horses are all top notch stock and running in big races for big purses most of the time.

the worst thing today is that some jockey's and their agents might be kicking back their trainers to get on good horses. jockeys get paid directly from the track the money comes out of the purses. trainers get paid from the owners.

personally, i pay the trainer the full 10% of the purse for 1st and 2nd and no further. some trainers will try to charge all the way down to 5th. i let the trainers pick their riders, but i don't allow kickbacks





So Gills trainers were getting 4K a month plus 5% of earnings for like 30 horses in the barn. Was Gill or the trainer paying the feed and hay bill?

[macguy]

So Gills trainers were getting 4K a month plus 5% of earnings for like 30 horses in the barn. Was Gill or the trainer paying the feed and hay bill?

Gill was likely paying all the bills, the trainer was simply working on salary.

[CryingForTheHorses]

A trainer can make any deal he wants, Dont forget the more horses the higher the overhead!!. 10% 1st,2nd,3rd is standard.What bothers me is you will have the lowlife trainers sitting in the grandstand running to other trainers owners telling them they can do a better job for cheaper.Dont forget..You get what you pay for!! This is a cutthroat business.MANY of these big name trainers cater to the owners in the grandstand and never ever touch a horse.Small trainers that are hands on dont have time to do this.Myself I could care less about sucking up to owners in the grandstand.I can name a lot of trainers who never touch a horse and can name trainers that are sleeping in their cars pretending to watch them train.A trainer that gambles could be a owners nightmare as his money is going to the machines and not to the horses.I feel the worst thing is for a owner to give his horse to a large stable as his horse becomes a number.When a trainer has the numbers he will win but just remember it may be your number that breaks down due to the high volume of horses in the barn..

[tbwinner]

I can name a lot of trainers who never touch a horse and can name trainers that are sleeping in their cars pretending to watch them train.A trainer that gambles could be a owners nightmare as his money is going to the machines and not to the horses.


I can think of one or two trainers on the Chicago circuit that fits this...