Mullins Case Denied---

[Deepsix]

Hmmmm. Bout time, OR he's a victim again???

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/57291/judge-denies-request-for-stay-in-mullins-case

[andymays]

The man has his "knucklehead" moments but he can train a horse.

Does he push the envelope? Yes.

Does California have some of the toughest drug testing in the country since 2007? Yes

How does the guy still clicks at a hight rate? The steroid stuff of a few years ago was supposed to stop Sadler and Mitchell yet they still kick butt. How is that possible unless they can flat out train a horse?

Mullins horses are well spotted and almost always look good on the track.

He's not the "demon" everyone makes him out to be.

[Deepsix]

So, Andy, you are thinking he's just a victim of the process, eh??

[andymays]

So, Andy, you are thinking he's just a victim of the process, eh??


He's a knucklehead that doesn't know how to play the game.

It's no secret that in California there were quite a few allegations that some on the CHRB went after guys like Mullins and ignored many others.

It all goes back to last year at Del Mar when there was a dust up over Ingrid Fermin getting a job as a steward. Read the articles and you may have a little different take on things.

The CHRB loved to grandstand in the past. It's well documented.

[Deepsix]

So, Andy, you blame Ingrid Fermin???, and/or the Stewards??? Or, maybe you blame UC Davis, or the State of Calif. I personally am rather narrow in how I view such drug issues.... not many others are being caught dirty. Clean up, or ship out. >smile, kinda cool slogan<

Lets here it for some unfortunate contamination. I've grown weary since he was caught with needle in hand in a detention barn.

Suffer.

[andymays]

So, Andy, you blame Ingrid Fermin???, and/or the Stewards??? Or, maybe you blame UC Davis, or the State of Calif. I personally am rather narrow in how I view such drug issues.... not many others are being caught dirty. Clean up, or ship out. >smile, kinda cool slogan<

Lets here it for some unfortunate contamination. I've grown weary since he was caught with needle in hand in a detention barn.

Suffer.

I don't blame anyone I'm just saying that the CHRB and some of it's employees are and always have been corrupt.

Get your facts straight. It wasn't a needle although it makes for a good story.

[Deepsix]

Good, take the bait. Draw the distinction.

[Deepsix]

Here's an up-to-date chronology...

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/tag/jeff-mullins

[andymays]

The stuff that has gone on in California is astonishing.

Conventional wisdom and reality are two different things.

Here's the controversy from last year at Del Mar.

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/furor-over-fermin/

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/tag/ingrid-fermin/

[Deepsix]

So Andy, I again ask IF you think Mullins is just a victim of the process.... and ALL the others that mysteriously navigate the rules are simply lucky. Or, your alternative is that UC Davis and the CHRB have it out for him.

I'm not that forgiving and I await the final verdict. lol

[andymays]

So Andy, I again ask IF you think Mullins is just a victim of the process.... and ALL the others that mysteriously navigate the rules are simply lucky. Or, your alternative is that UC Davis and the CHRB have it out for him.

I'm not that forgiving and I await the final verdict. lol


Mullins caused most of his own trouble and made it far worse than it needed to be.

If you think for one second that the CHRB is on the up and up then I don't know what to say.

[Deepsix]

Sure, "... an unnamed source....."

I have lost faith in Mullins, but he may be a great bet at the window. He's from Idaho, too (I believe)... that gives him sentimental points. I'd simply like to see him NOT have a dirty test.

[andymays]

Sure, "... an unnamed source....."

I have lost faith in Mullins, but he may be a great bet at the window. He's from Idaho, too (I believe)... that gives him sentimental points. I'd simply like to see him NOT have a dirty test.


The violation is question is from over two years ago and it was a borderline amount.

How is it that he's done so well since then?

[Deepsix]

Because the improvements in testing are acting as a deterrent and catching those outside the parameters. That doesn't excuse him for his prior violations. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Instead it seems the legal process is -- we'll drag this out through the legal system for years. Then folks like you will say... Hey, that was a long time ago.

BS

[PaceAdvantage]

I've grown weary since he was caught with needle in hand in a detention barn.And you call yourself objective? A water syringe is hardly a needle. Or are we talking about something other than the NYRA incident on Wood Memorial day last year?

[Deepsix]

I do attempt to be objective and my use of the term "needle" is inaccurate. Thanks for that. Administering the unknown substance in the detention barn IS what I was refering to, as you mentioned, and what was he thinking? His Calif. problems are now his to deal with, too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/30/jeff-mullins-horse-traine_n_340405.html

[andymays]

I do attempt to be objective and my use of the term "needle" is inaccurate. Thanks for that. Administering the unknown substance in the detention barn IS what I was refering to, as you mentioned, and what was he thinking? His Calif. problems are now his to deal with, too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/30/jeff-mullins-horse-traine_n_340405.html


It wasn't an unkown substance it was air power and he uses it on all his horses on race day. You can't administer anything in a detention barn and that's why it was so stupid on the part of Mullins.

http://www.finishlinehorse.com/product/airpower.asp

[Deepsix]

It (the product) was "unknown" to racing officials when he went into the detention barn and administered it. What was he thinking? Did ALL the other horses get a shot of this great herbal concoction just prior to the race? Yeah, it was just a boneheaded mistake... right. Like I said, I've lost faith in his 'good judgement' and I'll rely on the test results and if/when he appeals we'll see where the process leads. That is where we are.

[Igeteven]

And you call yourself objective? A water syringe is hardly a needle. Or are we talking about something other than the NYRA incident on Wood Memorial day last year?

Pace you are right, Deepsix, thinks everything is wonderful :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Deepsix]

<grin> Lester, anytime that you argue against my views I'm certain that I'm on the correct side of an issue. Lets just hope you continue to contribute as you have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4eT4mCKg04&feature=related

[Igeteven]

<grin> Lester, anytime that you argue against my views I'm certain that I'm on the correct side of an issue. Lets just hope you continue to contribute as you have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4eT4mCKg04&feature=related

I want you at the CHRB meeting, dead or alive, show up


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vutvoIQkZrU

[Hanover1]

So, Andy, you blame Ingrid Fermin???, and/or the Stewards??? Or, maybe you blame UC Davis, or the State of Calif. I personally am rather narrow in how I view such drug issues.... not many others are being caught dirty. Clean up, or ship out. >smile, kinda cool slogan<

Lets here it for some unfortunate contamination. I've grown weary since he was caught with needle in hand in a detention barn.

Suffer.
Correct yourself from ugly misinformation-comments like this are a LARGE part of the problem. He was caught with a syringe-NO needle attached-to administer a common wind aid via oral administration, that is commonly sold in tack shops as well as advertised in the Blood Horse, ect......negative public perception is fueled by these very remarks.
The fact that he has another issue before the board is the crux here, not misinformation about past events. I do not condone his actions, but lets keep things in proper perspective. He was not allowed the syringe in his posession, and was called out on it, yet we insist there was a needle involved?? Trust me when I tell you that prior to the Eight Belles tragedy, and for decades before, steriod use was common, widespread, and never under scrutiny. Not one bettor cried foul at that time. Mullins repeated milkshaking and clenbuterol use should be punished harshly to level the playing field. I can only hope that the governing body here can use facts instead of the innuendos we so flagrantly sling about.

[Deepsix]

You're late to the party, Hanover. Look up thread and you'll see that PA asked a similar question of me. My words were to be illustrative of being caught in the act.... not that it was an actual needle. I might have said "caught with his hand in the cookie jar" but that wouldn't have been accurate, either. The record is well known and speaks clearly.

Today the CHRB is supposed to review the charges and we should hear something shortly. It is interesting that his prior suspension in Calif. had many days held in abeyance conditioned on no further violations. There was a subsequent violation and now the CHRB must decide IF those days will be assessed.

Film at eleven.

[Hanover1]

You're late to the party, Hanover. Look up thread and you'll see that PA asked a similar question of me. My words were to be illustrative of being caught in the act.... not that it was an actual needle. I might have said "caught with his hand in the cookie jar" but that wouldn't have been accurate, either. The record is well known and speaks clearly.

Today the CHRB is supposed to review the charges and we should hear something shortly. It is interesting that his prior suspension in Calif. had many days held in abeyance conditioned on no further violations. There was a subsequent violation and now the CHRB must decide IF those days will be assessed.

Film at eleven.
You posted what you posted and it was not clear, or accurate-time to move forwards, we all make mistakes. I take issue, as I am a horseman, and have to live with these types of perceptions as you put forth. Think what image is conjured in the minds of people we are trying to keep/attract to the sport, when they read what was posted. That IS clear.....
If Mullins does not get the full monte, as agreed, then we DO have problems. And my hunch is that we do have problems......

[andymays]

You posted what you posted and it was not clear, or accurate-time to move forwards, we all make mistakes. I take issue, as I am a horseman, and have to live with these types of perceptions as you put forth. Think what image is conjured in the minds of people we are trying to keep/attract to the sport, when they read what was posted. That IS clear.....
If Mullins does not get the full monte, as agreed, then we DO have problems. And my hunch is that we do have problems......


You are right about that. This issue is stuck in the minds of the public and has hurt the game more than anything over the last several years.

The game has cleaned up quite a bit over the last few years but most people don't know it. Some people don't want to know it.

Mullins will probably lose his appeal and maybe he deserved to lose it. We'll see and then move on.

[WinterTriangle]

The hair-splitting will continue until drugging is outlawed, and trainers aren't holding *anything* looking like a syringe, with or without a needle in it, with or without a liquid in it, squirting, puncturing, whatever.

Should be pretty simple once rules are made, not to be broken, and propagated across the board to every track in the US---remove all the spy and creeping around in the dark stuff.

IMHO, that way, we can all get a sense of who the TRULY HONEST trainers are and give them the recognition, and purse money, they deserve.:)

It must really suck to be a honest, heads-down, nose-to-the-grindstone type and not end up having that pay off. (e see that in many sectors of our society, I'm sure you've all seen it happen in your own workplace.) Hard work and honesty SHOULD pay off, at least, that's the appropriate ethical model.

[PaceAdvantage]

You're late to the party, Hanover. Look up thread and you'll see that PA asked a similar question of me. My words were to be illustrative of being caught in the act.... not that it was an actual needle. I might have said "caught with his hand in the cookie jar" but that wouldn't have been accurate, either. The record is well known and speaks clearly.Nice tap dance. However, you specifically used the word needle, and that holds a much bigger meaning in this sport than a simple "hand caught in the cookie jar" analogy.

Just admit your were wrong on purpose and move on.

And no, I'm no Mullins defender.

[Deepsix]

I regret that the 'needle' word has caused such a reaction. If a trainer had actually been caught with a needle that person would have been banned from racing. Period. We wouldn't be talking about these other issues (CHRB hearing) now. I apologize for the careless remark.

[andymays]

I regret that the 'needle' word has caused such a reaction. If a trainer had actually been caught with a needle that person would have been banned from racing. Period. We wouldn't be talking about these other issues (CHRB hearing) now. I apologize for the careless remark.


In my opinion if you took a poll on all the message boards you would find that a majority of people believe the needle version. It's been repeated so many times it becomes the truth in many peoples minds because of the word "syringe" in the story. Most people don't differentiate between the two types of syringes".

Unfortunately, in the information age there is a lot of bad information that gets repeated and becomes the truth to quite a few people. The sport is cleaner now than it has been in the last 30 years. For some reason racing reporters don't write about it as much. They seem to like to write about the bad stuff. That's probably because they get more hits on their websites when they write about the bad stuff.

[Track Phantom]

I regret that the 'needle' word has caused such a reaction. If a trainer had actually been caught with a needle that person would have been banned from racing. Period. We wouldn't be talking about these other issues (CHRB hearing) now. I apologize for the careless remark.

I don't think you should apologize. I liked your remark. Needle, no needle. It means nothing. Fact remains that there are people in this industry that have been cheating to win and at the expense of many involved in this game. Period. Soften the blow all you like but reality is what it is.

[andymays]

I don't think you should apologize. I liked your remark. Needle, no needle. It means nothing. Fact remains that there are people in this industry that have been cheating to win and at the expense of many involved in this game. Period. Soften the blow all you like but reality is what it is.


You can't be serious. :rolleyes:

You kind of make my point in post #29. The truth doesn't matter????. :eek:

[Hanover1]

In my opinion if you took a poll on all the message boards you would find that a majority of people believe the needle version. It's been repeated so many times it becomes the truth in many peoples minds because of the word "syringe" in the story. Most people don't differentiate between the two types of syringes".

Unfortunately, in the information age there is a lot of bad information that gets repeated and becomes the truth to quite a few people. The sport is cleaner now than it has been in the last 30 years. For some reason racing reporters don't write about it as much. They seem to like to write about the bad stuff. That's probably because they get more hits on their websites when they write about the bad stuff.
This poll would reflect how many are informed of the truth vs fabrication...no twist here is going to change THAT fact......

[andymays]

Mullins Hearing Postponed Until August | BloodHorse.com
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/57323/mullins-hearing-postponed-until-august

Excerpt:

The latest round in Jeff Mullins versus the California Horse Racing Board went in favor of the trainer when a hearing officer agreed June 2 to postpone a hearing until Aug. 13.

Excerpt:

Mullins has filed suit against the CHRB, contending that the regulatory board violated his due process rights. Among other points in Mullins’ lawsuit are that the CHRB changed its own policies in reference to testing procedures and that it allowed biased witnesses to testify against the trainer.

Excerpt:

Maniscalco said the hearing officer’s decisions to delay and relocate the hearing were positive steps in the process. However, he added, "anything short of complete vindication would be a disappointment."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It looks like Mullins is dug in on this one. We'll see. I'm sure the CHRB would like this to go away.

[Deepsix]

That Mullin's attorney asked that the hearing officer disqualify himself (it was denied) is another interesting maneuver.

One point that may, or may not be known; Management (in this case CHRB) has an ethical obligation not to comment about an on-going case (pros/cons, guilt innocence, proof outside the original charges, etc), on the other hand the defendant/defendant's lawyer may say almost anything they choose to influence public opinion.

More to follow.

[PaceAdvantage]

Needle, no needle. It means nothing.Seriously?

[Hanover1]

Mullins Hearing Postponed Until August | BloodHorse.com
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/57323/mullins-hearing-postponed-until-august

Excerpt:

The latest round in Jeff Mullins versus the California Horse Racing Board went in favor of the trainer when a hearing officer agreed June 2 to postpone a hearing until Aug. 13.

Excerpt:

Mullins has filed suit against the CHRB, contending that the regulatory board violated his due process rights. Among other points in Mullins’ lawsuit are that the CHRB changed its own policies in reference to testing procedures and that it allowed biased witnesses to testify against the trainer.

Excerpt:

Maniscalco said the hearing officer’s decisions to delay and relocate the hearing were positive steps in the process. However, he added, "anything short of complete vindication would be a disappointment."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It looks like Mullins is dug in on this one. We'll see. I'm sure the CHRB would like this to go away.
This really looks like we are cleaning things up, huh.... :rolleyes:
I don't care if they defer until the year 2150, elevated levels of gas speak to exactly what transpired, processes or not. A milkshake by any flavor is still a milkshake Chris.......

[andymays]

This really looks like we are cleaning things up, huh.... :rolleyes:
I don't care if they defer until the year 2150, elevated levels of gas speak to exactly what transpired, processes or not. A milkshake by any flavor is still a milkshake Chris.......


I would bet he is probably guilty of milkshaking back then as were a lot of other people. I will also bet that the investigator or someone from the CHRB messed up the investigation in some way (It happens a lot more than people think). Mullins must have something that they did wrong or he wouldn't be digging in like this.

[Spalding No!]

How many TCO2 violations does Mullins (and O'Neill for that matter) have?

Back when the testing began in 2004, this is was what was proposed:

Additionally, horses entered by that trainer for the first 30 days could be put in a 24-hour detention barn at a cost of $150 a day for security plus other expenses. After a second offense, the trainer would be prohibited from entering any horse for 15 days. A third positive test would earn an expulsion from the Arcadia track and a one-year ban from Santa Anita.

Mullins has at least 2 (the probation violation in this recent matter stems from a different medication positive).

[Hanover1]

I would bet he is probably guilty of milkshaking back then as were a lot of other people. I will also bet that the investigator or someone from the CHRB messed up the investigation in some way (It happens a lot more than people think). Mullins must have something that they did wrong or he wouldn't be digging in like this.
A bit off thread here, and I am sorry admin, but I could not resist here....
Andy, you are on the spot here. I hate to admit this, but as a fact, my brother was a vets assistant thru much of the 80"s prior to becoming a cop of all things....we recently had a conversation alluding to how he spent most of his days with the vet. They were tubing horses (milkshaking) when not doing whatever else vets do....every day, around the curcuit, everyones barns, excepting very few. It was the norm prior to outcry. Much like steriod use was the norm. I used Equipoise, testosterone, Winstrol, Acepromazine, ect...and never had a positive, excepting a threshold Banamine once. When the boys said put your toys away, most of us complied, but Chris does not get it yet......and he has the balls to fight this. Horsemen are just shaking their heads and walking away when subject comes up.

[andymays]

A bit off thread here, and I am sorry admin, but I could not resist here....
Andy, you are on the spot here. I hate to admit this, but as a fact, my brother was a vets assistant thru much of the 80"s prior to becoming a cop of all things....we recently had a conversation alluding to how he spent most of his days with the vet. They were tubing horses (milkshaking) when not doing whatever else vets do....every day, around the curcuit, everyones barns, excepting very few. It was the norm prior to outcry. Much like steriod use was the norm. I used Equipoise, testosterone, Winstrol, Acepromazine, ect...and never had a positive, excepting a threshold Banamine once. When the boys said put your toys away, most of us complied, but Chris does not get it yet......and he has the balls to fight this. Horsemen are just shaking their heads and walking away when subject comes up.

Thanks for the information. It fits the thread and more people need to know the truth. Perception and reality are often two different things.

[rwwupl]

A bit off thread here, and I am sorry admin, but I could not resist here....
Andy, you are on the spot here. I hate to admit this, but as a fact, my brother was a vets assistant thru much of the 80"s prior to becoming a cop of all things....we recently had a conversation alluding to how he spent most of his days with the vet. They were tubing horses (milkshaking) when not doing whatever else vets do....every day, around the curcuit, everyones barns, excepting very few. It was the norm prior to outcry. Much like steriod use was the norm. I used Equipoise, testosterone, Winstrol, Acepromazine, ect...and never had a positive, excepting a threshold Banamine once. When the boys said put your toys away, most of us complied, but Chris does not get it yet......and he has the balls to fight this. Horsemen are just shaking their heads and walking away when subject comes up.


Hanover1,

Thank you.

[Hanover1]

I want to make clear that the era I laid out was a different time, different place. We were doing what was allowed, and, or overlooked. We are in an age of enlightenment regarding bettors, and the need for a level playing field in order to survive. The vast majority of trainers today understand this. The Mullins case is making the rounds, not because of widespread usage, as in days gone by, but rather because of the attempts by some, including Mullins, that think they are above the rules. Walk any backside today and strike up a conversation with any trainer you run into regarding this. I assure you the response will be an overwhelming disgust with the publicity this case has garnered. Not to mention the actions of all parties involved. CHRB for failure to enforce the rules as written, and Mullins actions before, during, and after his latest infraction. If Stronach and Co. screw the whole deal up out there, it comes as no shock to many, and delight to some.