Israel Blockade

[highnote]

Any thoughts on Israel's blockade of Gaza and their raid on the aid ship?

[JustRalph]

Watch the video's

Those idiots repelled down onto the deck with paint ball guns expecting to make their way to the bridge to commandeer the ship. They were almost beat to death with chairs and pipes............one soldier was knocked out and thrown from the top deck to the bottom.........They are lucky they took pistols with them for an "emergency" whomever planned that operation should be pistol whipped

[JustRalph]

gYjkLUcbJWo

[newtothegame]

Hmmm.....tough scenario here. Israel will always be percieved as the aggressor facing tiny little gaza and the palestinians. The blockade was nothing new. They were asked to go to a certain port for inspections, and they refused. They got boarded, people died. Sad!
But, I truly believe that Israel doesn't have many options.
1. Surrounded by countries who hate you and want your existence gone.
2. Blockade has been in place and this particuliar convoy decided to try and run it....bad decision!
3. Now with the latest news that Iran has the capabilities of fuel for TWO nukes...I would imagine the tensions in the middle east get alot higher. Escalating to the point that Israel reacts militarily.
4. With Israel's ally (if thats what you wish to call the U.S now) apparently leaving them out to dry,.....what do you expect? Their survival is at stake in their eyes!

[cj's dad]

Reported late last night that 3 Israeli subs have been deployed off the Iranian coast - each is armed with nuclear missles.

Things are heating up !

[boxcar]

4. With Israel's ally (if thats what you wish to call the U.S now) apparently leaving them out to dry,.....what do you expect? Their survival is at stake in their eyes!

Indeed! Virtually the entire world and this current administration is leaving Israel out to dry. But what the godless nations are overlooking is one "little" detail in its plans to annihilate the Jews -- YHVH. The LORD is in Israel's "arsenal", as it were, and he never has utterly forsook his people and he never will cut them off completely. He has always preserved a remnant. Little does the world understand that it is fighting against God Almighty when it goes up against his people. The armies of the world might as amass to fight against the might of natural forces. They might stand a better chance.

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

Reported late last night that 3 Israeli subs have been deployed off the Iranian coast - each is armed with nuclear missles.

Things are heating up !

While the Western world sleeps or turns a blind eye, Israel is awake. With good reason too according to this story:

VIENNA — Iran has amassed more than two tons of enriched uranium, the International Atomic Energy Agency said Monday in a report that heightened Western concerns about the country preparing to produce a nuclear weapon.

Two tons of uranium would suffice for two nuclear warheads, although Iran says it does not want weapons and is only pursuing civilian nuclear energy.
More at link:

http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=177064

[kenwoodall2]

Blockade good, paint ball bad!

[JustRalph]

Reported late last night that 3 Israeli subs have been deployed off the Iranian coast - each is armed with nuclear missles.

Things are heating up !

Been discussing this via PM ..........I notice no real coverage of this in the mainstream media really? This should be huge news........I don't get it.

[Ocala Mike]

A future history student (if there is a future) will look up "Causes of World War III" on his wrist computer and see a map of Israel displayed.


Ocala Mike

[Tom]

With a Target on it.

[BenDiesel26]

A future history student (if there is a future) will look up "Causes of World War III" on his wrist computer and see a map of Israel displayed.


Ocala Mike

I guess they should also see a map of Egypt displayed as well, since they are partaking in the same exact blockade for the same exact reason: Hamas is a terrorist organization that has hijacked its own people. Egypt doesn't want weapons being transported there either. No coverage of this though for some reason.

[Tom]

Fox covered it today.
They also reported that there was no need for the floatila to try to run the blockade because Israel has been - right along - delivering humanitarian supplies. All they have to do is hand them off to Israel of Egypt. But that would not give them this opportunity to try to paint Israel as the bad guy, even when Hammas have declared it's desire to obliterate Israel.

Screw the US condemnation - I condem the US if they do.

[GameTheory]

And the group behind this flotilla also has well-documented ties to terrorist groups. This whole thing was intended to provoke Israel, no question.

[kenwoodall2]

News reported "Peace activists" on the illegal ships had hanguns, attempted murder of an Israeli soldier. These are the ones covering for killer terrorists.

[cj's dad]

Been discussing this via PM ..........I notice no real coverage of this in the mainstream media really? This should be huge news........I don't get it.


Ralph,

I KNOW you are a smart guy from reading your posts !! Having said that I assume your post is rhetorical in nature. You know the reason we don't hear the "other side" is because the "other side" is one that the MSM does not want to portray. These bast---s in the press are bleeding heart liberal pieces of crap who bend over backwards to portray the Palestinians as the victims. Palestinians, the same folks who danced in the streets when the Twin Towers came crashing down. The same folks who launched scud missiles into Israel in hopes of killing innocent civilians. The same folks who have failed to rise up against their "homeland's" occupation by terrorist thugs.

Screw the Palestinians and may "God Bless Israel" the only true democracy in that God foresaken piece of real estate known as the Middle East.

[Greyfox]

A future history student (if there is a future) will look up "Causes of World War III" on his wrist computer and see a map of Israel displayed.
Ocala Mike

You are right. The middle-east has always been a potential power box to blow up into WWIII. That future student might be something that evolved from ants.

[Hank]

Ralph,

I KNOW you are a smart guy from reading your posts !! Having said that I assume your post is rhetorical in nature. You know the reason we don't hear the "other side" is because the "other side" is one that the MSM does not want to portray. These bast---s in the press are bleeding heart liberal pieces of crap who bend over backwards to portray the Palestinians as the victims. Palestinians, the same folks who danced in the streets when the Twin Towers came crashing down. The same folks who launched scud missiles into Israel in hopes of killing innocent civilians. The same folks who have failed to rise up against their "homeland's" occupation by terrorist thugs.

Screw the Palestinians and may "God Bless Israel" the only true democracy in that God foresaken piece of real estate known as the Middle East.


Hate to break the news to you, but Israel is not true democracy.It's an ethnocracy along the lines of apartheid South Africa.For that matter the USA is not a true democracy, much closer to a true plutocracy than a democracy.

[bigmack]

Hate to break the news to you, but Israel is not true democracy.It's an ethnocracy along the lines of apartheid South Africa
:lol: :lol:

As usual, you're in outer space. In a ethnocracy representatives of a particular ethnic group hold a number of government posts disproportionately large to the percentage of the total population that the particular ethnic group represents and use them to advance the position of their particular ethnic group to the detriment of others.

Tell us Hankie, what is the ethnic make-up of Is?

[skate]

looks a little ' eth-snotty-istic to me.

[skate]

could be, the Gov set up those Navy guys, to cause vibs. funny

[JustRalph]

Ralph,

I KNOW you are a smart guy from reading your posts !! Having said that I assume your post is rhetorical in nature. You know the reason we don't hear the "other side" is because the "other side" is one that the MSM does not want to portray. These bast---s in the press are bleeding heart liberal pieces of crap who bend over backwards to portray the Palestinians as the victims. Palestinians, the same folks who danced in the streets when the Twin Towers came crashing down. The same folks who launched scud missiles into Israel in hopes of killing innocent civilians. The same folks who have failed to rise up against their "homeland's" occupation by terrorist thugs.

Screw the Palestinians and may "God Bless Israel" the only true democracy in that God foresaken piece of real estate known as the Middle East.

Rhetorical ? Me ? Never............. :lol:

Btw, you called it like you see it...... I see it pretty much the same way.
People tend to forget about places like Entebbe and Munich. I was a youngster during the Olympic Attacks and the Entebbe raid and such was just another news story when I was a teen. Somehow these things fall off the radar.

This event (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Stethem) changed how U.S. Military members traveled....and I was in the Air Force when this happened....this was the first time I ever got any real training or info on the differences between the different Muslim Sects etc. Just a note, I didn't know that Stethem was a Maryland boy....... I am sure you remember it. There were Air Force Cops flying the friendly sky for a couple years after as the first "Sky Marshals" I wasn't one of them, but I knew some of them. They were all E-7's and above and most had experience in Vietnam.

A few months later the Achille Lauro happened.
For those who don't remember, The Cruise Ship was hijacked by Palestinian affilated terrorists and is famous for the incident when they rolled that poor bastard in the Wheelchair overboard. When Reagan forced those bastards down many thought there would be justice for Leon Klinghoffer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Klinghoffer) But Abbu Abbas walked away. The Italians let him go by giving him Italian Air Force uniforms and he slipped from the country to Baghdad.

For those of you who didn't think Saddam Husein had any ties to Terror.......Abbu Abbas lived in Baghdad for years running a terrorist organization. When the U.S. invaded in 2003 one thing George Bush did not do is allow Abbas to walk away again. Not again. Good Riddance and hail GW and Cheney for making sure he didn't get away again. Read it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Abbas

From the link above:

"Death in custody
On April 15, 2003, Zaidan was captured by American forces in Iraq while attempting to flee from Baghdad to Syria. Italy subsequently requested his extradition. The Pentagon reported on March 9, 2004 that Zaidan had died the previous day, of natural causes, while in U.S. custody. The P.L.F. (without evidence) accused the Americans of assassinating their leader. The U.S. authorities agreed to give Abbas' body to the Palestinian Red Crescent for burial in Ramallah on the West Bank. However, his burial there was blocked by the Israeli authorities, and he was buried in the Martyrs' Cemetery in Damascus instead."

Bottom line, I know who the bastards are........it seems most of our country has forgotten. Not I said the pig!!

[Greyfox]

Hate to break the news to you, but Israel is not true democracy.It's an ethnocracy along the lines of apartheid South Africa.For that matter the USA is not a true democracy, much closer to a true plutocracy than a democracy.

Don't let fear and common sense hold you back here, and in spite of disagreements elsewhere, your comments beg an explanation.
1. Why is Israel not a true democracy?
2. Why is the USA not a true democracy?

I don't doubt that you have definitions that might support your case.
But your comments beg an answer as to why you would conclude that.
Please expand on your interesting contribution.
I'm a sceptic here.

[BluegrassProf]

The US is a representative democracy (read: a republic) sprinkled with certain basic elements of plutocracy (wealth and power play an enormous role in representation, as we're all fully aware).

In my little world, I'd also add mediocracy to that list, where media control and representation play a considerable role in how the game of politics is played. There it is: mediocracy. You heard it first! :cool:

Sure, we're not a pure democracy, which is what I assume you meant when you said "true" - in a population of any scale, it's impractical...heck, we can barely get anyone to the polls as it is - but it's a democracy nonetheless. :ThmbUp:

[Black Ruby]

The US is a representative democracy (read: a republic) sprinkled with certain basic elements of plutocracy (wealth and power play an enormous role in representation, as we're all fully aware).

In my little world, I'd also add mediocracy to that list, where media control and representation play a considerable role in how the game of politics is played. There it is: mediocracy. You heard it first! :cool:

Sure, we're not a pure democracy, which is what I assume you meant when you said "true" - in a population of any scale, it's impractical...heck, we can barely get anyone to the polls as it is - but it's a democracy nonetheless. :ThmbUp:

Since we now have the vast majority of the media owned by 5-6 corporations, I think your Mediocracy is just a subsidiary of the Corporatocracy that is truly our form of government. Media makes money off campaign advertisements, which are endowed by corporate contibutions. A vicious circle, which proves to be a fustercluck to the American people.

[cj's dad]

From MEMRI; the Middle East Media Research Center:







Prominent activists in the Yemeni flotilla delegation were three MPs from the Al-Islah party, an Islamist party that is close to the Muslim Brotherhood. One, Sheikh Muhammad Al-Hazmi, was photographed on the deck of the Mavi Marmara brandishing his large curved dagger.[13] (http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4265.htm#_edn13)

http://www.memri.org/image/4398.JPG

http://www.memri.org/image/4399.JPG
YemeniteSheikh Muhammad Al-Hazmi

Another Yemeni MP in the flotilla, Hazza' Al-Maswari, also from the Al-Islah party, previously expressed vehement anti-American sentiment. In 2004, he objected to a Yemeni program for dialogue with prisoners from Al-Qaeda aimed at tempering their views, declaring recently at Friday prayers: "We cannot tell militants 'don't terrorize Americans' or 'don't attack their interests.' Those who plant hatred will harvest hatred."[14] (http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4265.htm#_edn14)

http://www.memri.org/image/4400.JPG
Depiction of flotilla on Yemeni website[15] (http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4265.htm#_edn15)

[boxcar]

Since we now have the vast majority of the media owned by 5-6 corporations, I think your Mediocracy is just a subsidiary of the Corporatocracy that is truly our form of government. Media makes money off campaign advertisements, which are endowed by corporate contibutions. A vicious circle, which proves to be a fustercluck to the American people.

Cheer up. The SC ruling only balanced out all the political rhetoric delivered to the media on both sides: Big Gov/Big Labor on one side. Big Biz on the other. It's all good...except for the lazy minds who can't handle additional info.

Boxcar

[rastajenk]

Sounds like your typical "peace activists," at least in that part of the world: you will have peace when and only when you submit to Allah.

[Steve R]

Sounds like your typical "peace activists," at least in that part of the world: you will have peace when and only when you submit to Allah.
Cut the crap. The flotilla was authorized by the government of Turkey, Israel's strongest ally in the region. The Turkish PM stated that the ships were inspected for military weapons before departure and none were found. He also implied that future flotillas using Turkish vessels would include Turkish military personnel. The bullshit coming out of Israel is so outrageous that only a fool would believe the crap they are peddling. Presumably Israel withdrew from Gaza in August 2005 (at least that is what Israel claims). If that is the case, Gaza is autonomous and humanitarian ships trying reach ports in Gaza have nothing to do with Israeli sovereignty. Israel can not play it both ways. Gaza is either occupied or it's free and Israel should make that status absolutely clear. If the Turkish PM can be taken at his word then the hijacking of an unarmed humanitarian aid ship in international waters is by definition piracy. This was clearly a fumbled terrorist attack and it seems likely there was an intention to kill peace activists as a way of detering future convoys. Why? Because the attack was planned well ahead of time, the ships were far from Gaza ports and they could have been turned back by Israeli naval forces.

I wonder if back in 1948 anyone would have believed that a future Israeli government would be dominated by racist murderers.

[Greyfox]

Cut the crap. The flotilla was authorized by the government of Turkey, Israel's strongest ally in the region. The Turkish PM stated that the ships were inspected for military weapons before departure and none were found. .

You are aware of course that in the last month the President of Iran and the President of Turkey have had series of meetings to form an alliance.

http://www.voltairenet.org/local/cache-vignettes/L400xH300/ME1-1197c.jpg (http://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/jpg/ME1.jpg)

The new formula for the Middle East: the Turkey-Iran-Syria triangle (L to R, Presidents Gül, Ahmadinejad and Assad).


What is behind this sudden interest between Turkey and Iran?
Why was this ship sent at this time??

[Steve R]

You are aware of course that in the last month the President of Iran and the President of Turkey have had series of meetings to form an alliance.

http://www.voltairenet.org/local/cache-vignettes/L400xH300/ME1-1197c.jpg (http://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/jpg/ME1.jpg)

The new formula for the Middle East: the Turkey-Iran-Syria triangle (L to R, Presidents Gül, Ahmadinejad and Assad).


What is behind this sudden interest between Turkey and Iran?
Why was this ship sent at this time??
Turkey has been engaged with Iran for several years and has been attempting to forge close partnerships with its immediate neighbors in the Middle East for quite some time. Apparently they have had enough of US intransigence in the region and have taken the initiative to try and stabilize a critical situation. It has culminated in the agreement between Turkey, Brazil and Iran for Iran to send most of its enriched uranium to Turkey in a nuclear fuel swap deal. It must really piss off the US to realize that others are fed up with American policy in the area an are taking the initiative independently of American interests. As for Syria, even the US has been trying to develop a better relationship by appointing an ambassador for the first time in five years.

From a practical standpoint I have never understood the unquestioned US support of Israel. It seems to me that being on friendly terms with those who supply the oil that drives the American economy is of far greater strategic importance. Of course part of it could be that Israeli leadership is mostly white and of European origin while the Arabs/Muslims are mostly dark skinned and of Asian origin. That would certainly be consistent with America's historical traditions of slavery and genocide.

[Greyfox]

. Of course part of it could be that Israeli leadership is mostly white and of European origin while the Arabs/Muslims are mostly dark skinned and of Asian origin. That would certainly be consistent with America's historical traditions of slavery and genocide.

You made sense until you played the "Race" card.

[cj's dad]

Turkey has been engaged with Iran for several years and has been attempting to forge close partnerships with its immediate neighbors in the Middle East for quite some time. Apparently they have had enough of US intransigence in the region and have taken the initiative to try and stabilize a critical situation. It has culminated in the agreement between Turkey, Brazil and Iran for Iran to send most of its enriched uranium to Turkey in a nuclear fuel swap deal. It must really piss off the US to realize that others are fed up with American policy in the area an are taking the initiative independently of American interests. As for Syria, even the US has been trying to develop a better relationship by appointing an ambassador for the first time in five years.

From a practical standpoint I have never understood the unquestioned US support of Israel. It seems to me that being on friendly terms with those who supply the oil that drives the American economy is of far greater strategic importance. Of course part of it could be that Israeli leadership is mostly white and of European origin while the Arabs/Muslims are mostly dark skinned and of Asian origin. That would certainly be consistent with America's historical traditions of slavery and genocide.

Your credibility has just bottomed out !!

[PaceAdvantage]

Of course part of it could be that Israeli leadership is mostly white and of European origin while the Arabs/Muslims are mostly dark skinned and of Asian origin. That would certainly be consistent with America's historical traditions of slavery and genocide.Yeah, that's probably it.

Wow.

[JustRalph]

Sometimes when I think I have just about heard it all............

This kind of shit pops up............. :bang: :bang:

[lsbets]

Steve is typical of those who endorse the terrorism of the Palestinians. Ignore the facts and make a lot of noise. For a lot of the world. where Jew hate is a sport, that's all that's needed. Fortunately sane, thinking people see the flotilla and the facts clearly unlike Stevie. The facts are it was a setup, the IDF acted in self defense once boarding the ship, and the other ships (where there weren't activists who had pledged jihad against Israel) were unloaded and the supplies sent to Gaza. While Stevies story might be a nice fairy tale, it is far removed from the truth.

[GaryG]

Israel did nothing wrong here, merely what it had to do. The arabs like to talk big, but to quote PA: All talkie no ballsy. Business as usual in the middle east. Oh, one more thing.....screw the U.N.

[Tom]

The next ship that comes along.....blow it to kingdom come right out of the blocks. IF the USA had a leader, we have our warships alongside the Israeli ships. Too bad we voted to cut off our balls in 2008.

[Steve R]

It is amazing how Americans either ignore or even justify their inherent racism. Anyone recall the imprisonment of Japanese-Americans in concentration camps during WWII while Italian- and German-Americans were left alone? No racism there. The annihilation of Native Americans had nothing to do with racism either. That's why they were called "savages". And who could ever attribute 300 years of slavery to racism? Heaven forbid. Grow up and read your own freakin' history. Who have you fought in the last 60 years? The North Koreans, the Chinese, the Vietnamese, the Grenadians, the Panamanians, the Nicaraguans, the Salvadorans, the Somalis, the Iraqis, the Afghanis... It's startling how violent people of color can be.

The most idiotic implications in this thread are that the incident essentially puts the Turkish government in league with Palestinian terrorists or that only "sane" people see the flotilla as a terrorist plot. That explains why international condemnation of the attack has been universal except for...I guess only right wing religious nuts.

I won't apologize for my position. Among the many rogue states in the world, Israel is simply one more...a violent theocracy masquerading as a democracy. At one time, to the British, they were the al-Qaeda of the late 1940s. Check it out.

[andymays]

It is amazing how Americans either ignore or even justify their inherent racism. Anyone recall the imprisonment of Japanese-Americans in concentration camps during WWII while Italian- and German-Americans were left alone? No racism there. The annihilation of Native Americans had nothing to do with racism either. That's why they were called "savages". And who could ever attribute 300 years of slavery to racism? Heaven forbid. Grow up and read your own freakin' history. Who have you fought in the last 60 years? The North Koreans, the Chinese, the Vietnamese, the Grenadians, the Panamanians, the Nicaraguans, the Salvadorans, the Somalis, the Iraqis, the Afghanis... It's startling how violent people of color can be.
The most idiotic implications in this thread are that the incident essentially puts the Turkish government in league with Palestinian terrorists or that only "sane" people see the flotilla as a terrorist plot. That explains why international condemnation of the attack has been universal except for...I guess only right wing religious nuts.

I won't apologize for my position. Among the many rogue states in the world, Israel is simply one more...a violent theocracy masquerading as a democracy. At one time, to the British, they were the al-Qaeda of the late 1940s. Check it out.


Steve, cmon that was pretty much the way of the world for centuries. You act as if the groups you mention were innocent angels throughout their historys.

The fact remains that the U.S.A has done more good in the world than any other country.

What other countries have gone to war and then helped rebuild the countries that attacked them like we did with Japan. And speaking of Japan what did they do to the Chinese in the early part of the last century?

There is plenty of bad stuff to go around in the world. Characterizing this country as one of the worst is just wrong.

[bks]

The fact remains that the U.S.A has done more good in the world than any other country.

What other countries have gone to war and then helped rebuild the countries that attacked them like we did with Japan. And speaking of Japan what did they do to the Chinese in the early part of the last century?

There is plenty of bad stuff to go around in the world. Characterizing this country as one of the worst is just wrong.

andy, I think you are one of the most reasonable posters here (including me :)

Let me ask you a question, and please try to answer honestly: if you were presented with sufficient evidence to the contrary, could your mind be changed about this? Or is your belief in the essential goodness of US interventions abroad to strong to shake?

Thx.

[andymays]

andy, I think you are one of the most reasonable posters here (including me :)

Let me ask you a question, and please try to answer honestly: if you were presented with sufficient evidence to the contrary, could your mind be changed about this? Or is your belief in the essential goodness of US interventions abroad to strong to shake?

Thx.

I'm reasonable? :D I'm sure some are gagging over that one.

Certain interventions were certainly misguided.

I don't understand the way of thinking that allows people to think the worst of this country while thinking the best of other countries who have probably done worse things.

We see this with the immigration debate. We are racists while the Mexican government beats the hell out of anyone trying to come in their southern boarder. Why is the focus on us when Mexico is the problem?

[lsbets]

Stevie you changed my mind. The "peace activists" didn't want to force a confrontation and didn't initiate the violence once the ship was boarded. Arab Israelis don't live better than the average Arab in the rest of the Muslim world, enjoying more freedom, that's all propaganda. To hell with the truth, you are right. I think when you speak of inherent racism, you're more on the mark than you care to admit.

[ArlJim78]

Steve R, are you a consultant for the UN? You certainly share many of their inherent misguided conceptions about the United States and the world. You would fit right in there.

[GaryG]

I would rather have Netanyahu leading the United States than the muslim apologist that "we" elected.

[ArlJim78]

I would rather have Netanyahu leading the United States than the muslim apologist that "we" elected.
In a heartbeat. Bibi would be much more pro American than what we have.

[Tom]

At one time, to the British, they were the al-Qaeda of the late 1940s.

We all know of Britain's record with developing countries..I submit they got what they deserved. Like they got fro us. Screw Britain - one of histories most violent and oppressive empires of all time. They were al-Queda with borders.

[Tom]

I would rather have Netanyahu leading the United States than the muslim apologist that "we" elected.

Hala-loooooya!
WE may have to choose between the two very soon.
Guess who I choose? :rolleyes:

[ddog]

"Fortunately sane, thinking people see the flotilla and the facts clearly unlike Stevie"


sadly the world or the vast MAJORITY of it are not of the same sane mind as we are. SO, one needs to be just a little smarter in the enforcement of the legitimate goals of protecting against Hammas.

Hammas can never "win" with rockets. They are fighting a P.R. war and to counter that with boarding and images like the ones published only help THEIR P.R.

So, while the ranters like to scream and posture "nuke em blow em out of the water"(all talk and no walk) the real war is being lost in the millions who are not of our "sane" mind.

You can remain sane and still lose. You can even "be right" and still lose. Happens all the time.


bibi, while correct is is a fool, he is fighting the wrong war. Majority of IS will toss him in less than 2 years.

[ddog]

We all know of Britain's record with developing countries..I submit they got what they deserved. Like they got fro us. Screw Britain - one of histories most violent and oppressive empires of all time. They were al-Queda with borders.


There are populations that see us as their AQ. Should we insist on staying just like the brits, until the end is forced on us.

[JustRalph]

I read today that the "humanitarian aid" ship was loaded with flak jackets and night vision goggles ?

Flak Jackets and Night Vision Goggles are used for one thing only.............

and it ain't Deer Hunting..............

[woodtoo]

I read today that the "humanitarian aid" ship was loaded with flak jackets and night vision goggles ?

Flak Jackets and Night Vision Goggles are used for one thing only.............

and it ain't Deer Hunting..............

Really,who'd of thought that :eek:

[Steve R]

I read today that the "humanitarian aid" ship was loaded with flak jackets and night vision goggles ?

Flak Jackets and Night Vision Goggles are used for one thing only.............

and it ain't Deer Hunting..............
Apparently you chose to leave out an important part of the story to justify your opinion. From Amy Teibel of the Associated Press, June 2nd, 2010:

"...Israeli defense officials have also said, without providing proof, that night vision goggles, gas masks, flak jackets and thousands of dollars were found on the ship, suggesting the possibility that some mercenaries were on board...".

The boldface text pretty much explains everything. Just more Israeli bullshit. Funny how now they have decided to expel these "terrorists" rather than prosecute them.

[bigmack]

The boldface text pretty much explains everything. Just more Israeli bullshit. Funny how now they have decided to expel these "terrorists" rather than prosecute them.
Who's the brainwashed one here, you, who choose to disbelieve the report or those that trust proof will be forthcoming?

When proof is offered do us a favor. Come on back in this thread and tell us you were drunk with indoctrination, bias & hate. K?

[fast4522]

I took sides way way back during the peanut years, remember Jimmy? My wife was having a hell of a time getting me to fly just after meeting her. Now in middle age I look at the problem as a fight over religion on the one side and the other to survive a a people. Our President should either stand with Israel or get a good strong cup of STFU. To let Israel swing in the wind as this complete fool is doing is asking for world war III and $7 to $15 a gallon gas. Never in my adult live have I seen so many game change possibility during the same administration. This BS in the Gulf of Mexico looks like it will spew until 2011 under current brilliant political management. Wake up America everything you grew up with taking for granted as a youth is slipping away or becoming toxic due to being too self absorbed to the point ignoring is your main goal.

[ArlJim78]

in this video you can see some of the "humanitarians" on the Turkish boat stabbing and beating Israeli soldiers who were not even defending themselves.
It's clear what this "peace flotilla" was all about. Due to Obama it's open season on Israel. Even Hugo Chavez, another Obama ally is talking about getting involved in the next flotilla.

S6Xm8Irz-so

[ArlJim78]

some pictures of the humanitarian crisis in Gaza (http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/06/photos-horrifying-toll-of-humanitarian.html). not for the faint of heart.

[JustRalph]

some pictures of the humanitarian crisis in Gaza (http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/06/photos-horrifying-toll-of-humanitarian.html). not for the faint of heart.

Damn......now you went and made me hungry

[boxcar]

It is amazing how Americans either ignore or even justify their inherent racism. Anyone recall the imprisonment of Japanese-Americans in concentration camps during WWII while Italian- and German-Americans were left alone? No racism there. The annihilation of Native Americans had nothing to do with racism either. That's why they were called "savages". And who could ever attribute 300 years of slavery to racism? Heaven forbid. Grow up and read your own freakin' history. Who have you fought in the last 60 years? The North Koreans, the Chinese, the Vietnamese, the Grenadians, the Panamanians, the Nicaraguans, the Salvadorans, the Somalis, the Iraqis, the Afghanis... It's startling how violent people of color can be.

The most idiotic implications in this thread are that the incident essentially puts the Turkish government in league with Palestinian terrorists or that only "sane" people see the flotilla as a terrorist plot. That explains why international condemnation of the attack has been universal except for...I guess only right wing religious nuts.

I won't apologize for my position. Among the many rogue states in the world, Israel is simply one more...a violent theocracy masquerading as a democracy. At one time, to the British, they were the al-Qaeda of the late 1940s. Check it out.

Funny how another part of the world doesn't see us the way you do. I'm talking about the tens of millions of immigrants of all colors, races, creeds, religions and ethnicities who, over numerous decades, have risked life and limb to come to a Free Land -- the Land of Opportunity. Conversely, the same world history hasn't shown me all the millions flocking to the "yellow" lands, to the "brown" lands, to the "black" lands, which is really kind of odd, since according to you any one of these far away places would be morally superior to the people of This Land. One would think that people would want to live and build their lives with a better people -- in a better land -- since this one is so morally inferior, according to your warped view of reality that is more indicative of La La Land where you obviously reside.

Boxcar

[Light]

60% of Palestinians are undernourished as a result of the blockade. Palestinian children show signs of stunted growth due to lack of vitamins, because their food is regulated by the Israeli's. Gaza is the largest open air prison in the world. Nothing gets in or out without Israeli approval. This is why the "free Gaza movement" exists. For Israel to claim self defense,they must prove that the boat had wmd's. There is no smoking gun. The "activists" are shown using clubs because the soldiers fired at them before they even stepped on the boat. One guy had four bullets in his head. That is not self defense. That is execution.

The Israeli regime has only one intention regarding Palestinians: Ethnic cleansing. Already over 400 Palestinians have died in the last year because medical aid was denied them by Israel. They cannot travel without hours of investigation by the Israelis into their purpose. Many have bled to death waiting for approval to seek help. The wall around Gaza and the policing of it by Israel is collective punishment equivalent to the Nazi concentration camps. Emaciated Palestinian people with no economy,curfews over their heads,can be shot anytime and accused of being a terrorist.Their homes can be bulldozed at whim.A 2nd boat is underway by the free Gaza movement to try to bring humanitarian aid and it is named after an American woman who was intentionally crushed by an Israeli bulldozer while trying to protect the home of a Palestinian man from being demolished. A young Palestinian woman just had her eye pulled out by an Israeli soldier who shot her at close range with a tear gas canister in the face for sitting peacefully in support of the activists in the west bank.The life the ordinary Palestinian lives is hellish under Israeli control.This is the type of regime you guys are defending.

When Muslims around the world see this from the viewpoint I just described, they get angry. When they see the Whitehouse stay silent on the issue,they get angry. Obama is an idiot. He knows that his silence on this matter speaks volumes to the Arab world. It was piracy in international waters. Illegal and barbaric.

You will defensively call me a Jew hater,etc. But this has nothing to do with hating Jews or Israel. It has to do with freeing a people from oppression,and providing them with basic human necessities.

[boxcar]

You will defensively call me a Jew hater,etc. But this has nothing to do with hating Jews or Israel. It has to do with freeing a people from oppression,and providing them with basic human necessities.

If they hadn't behaved like animals all these years, no blockade would have been required. They have heaped these burning coals upon their own heads due to their hatred of Israel. It's tough to make nice to a people who think you have no right to exist.

Btw, I like to see video of that guy getting shot four times in the beanie. You've got the link, right? Just forgot to post it? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[newtothegame]

60% of Palestinians are undernourished as a result of the blockade. Palestinian children show signs of stunted growth due to lack of vitamins, because their food is regulated by the Israeli's. Gaza is the largest open air prison in the world. Nothing gets in or out without Israeli approval. This is why the "free Gaza movement" exists. For Israel to claim self defense,they must prove that the boat had wmd's. There is no smoking gun. The "activists" are shown using clubs because the soldiers fired at them before they even stepped on the boat. One guy had four bullets in his head. That is not self defense. That is execution.

The Israeli regime has only one intention regarding Palestinians: Ethnic cleansing. Already over 400 Palestinians have died in the last year because medical aid was denied them by Israel. They cannot travel without hours of investigation by the Israelis into their purpose. Many have bled to death waiting for approval to seek help. The wall around Gaza and the policing of it by Israel is collective punishment equivalent to the Nazi concentration camps. Emaciated Palestinian people with no economy,curfews over their heads,can be shot anytime and accused of being a terrorist.Their homes can be bulldozed at whim.A 2nd boat is underway by the free Gaza movement to try to bring humanitarian aid and it is named after an American woman who was intentionally crushed by an Israeli bulldozer while trying to protect the home of a Palestinian man from being demolished. A young Palestinian woman just had her eye pulled out by an Israeli soldier who shot her at close range with a tear gas canister in the face for sitting peacefully in support of the activists in the west bank.The life the ordinary Palestinian lives is hellish under Israeli control.This is the type of regime you guys are defending.

When Muslims around the world see this from the viewpoint I just described, they get angry. When they see the Whitehouse stay silent on the issue,they get angry. Obama is an idiot. He knows that his silence on this matter speaks volumes to the Arab world. It was piracy in international waters. Illegal and barbaric.

You will defensively call me a Jew hater,etc. But this has nothing to do with hating Jews or Israel. It has to do with freeing a people from oppression,and providing them with basic human necessities.

It has EVERYTHING to do with jews light. You and I both know it. Everytime there is a post regarding Israel, you show up talking about their destruction of the pallestinians.
You talk about the undernurishment etc etc of pallestinians. What do you have to say about the MANY reports that the supplies which were on the ship were OUTDATED and OLD medicines? Or do you believe that its ok to give expired medicines and supplements to them?
Then in your long winded speech about the terrorist Israel, why do you NOT mention EGYPT? They also are part of this blockade!!! Or is that just another PR stunt as you believe?
How about the many stories of rockets that fly from Gaza with NO guidance killing and maiming ANYONE in the area?
Now is Pallestinian OUTGUNNED in this fight? Maybe they should realize that shit and get Hammas and the other terrorist factions out so that Israel could not force blockades and bomb tunnels to try and keep weapons from Hammas?
The facts are this.....Israel is fighting for its LIFE and existence. You may try and say that the same could be said of Pallestinians but let me ask you this....You say that Pallestinians are fighting with rocks and slingshots etc etc against one of the worlds best militaries. If Israel wanted to wipe gaza from the map, could they not just do it??? That answers your questions regarding Israels intentions. But just look at what the muslim regimes around israel say...
Iran....Their president OPENLY says that Israel should be wiped from the map.
Isreal has been attacked by THREE neighboring countries in the past and fought that off. face it...they want Israel gone! There is a such thing as self defense. Now does it require 4 bullets to the head? (Which until you show proof of that story I will believe it is made up), But, if you are coming at me with a club or a knife, or a weapon....I am damn sure gonna put a bullet in your behind. And I could really care less if you claim you were out gunned. Maybe you should put your club down and think twice before charging!

[bigmack]

The Israeli regime has only one intention regarding Palestinians: Ethnic cleansing.
That's a big bite. That would be tough to back-up. Care to try without hyperbole?

By the way, anyone know how Jordanians feel about Palestinians?

How 'bout Egyptians?

Syrians?

Those Jews. They're so mean.

[Robert Goren]

Israel has lot of enemies, a lot of people who could care less about them one way or the other and very few (but powerful) friends. They would do well not to spit in the face of what friends they do have. JMO

[cj's dad]

Israel has lot of enemies, a lot of people who could care less about them one way or the other and very few (but powerful) friends. They would do well not to spit in the face of what friends they do have. JMO

Obama has done nothing BUT spit in their face since he took office.



If our enemies lay down their arms we have peace, if we lay down ours we are dead.

Golda Meir

[Steve R]

Funny how another part of the world doesn't see us the way you do. I'm talking about the tens of millions of immigrants of all colors, races, creeds, religions and ethnicities who, over numerous decades, have risked life and limb to come to a Free Land -- the Land of Opportunity. Conversely, the same world history hasn't shown me all the millions flocking to the "yellow" lands, to the "brown" lands, to the "black" lands, which is really kind of odd, since according to you any one of these far away places would be morally superior to the people of This Land. One would think that people would want to live and build their lives with a better people -- in a better land -- since this one is so morally inferior, according to your warped view of reality that is more indicative of La La Land where you obviously reside.

Boxcar
Just keep piling on the nonsense. It's hilarious. It seems as though you are just another in a line who have no real understanding of your own history. Immigration policy in the US has always been about cheap labor, not "freedom". The proof lies in the fact that in every period of a strong US economy immigration policy has been liberalized while in every period of a weak US economy it has become regressive (like now, for example). Your view of America is an illusion. Sure, many immigrants have gone to the US to escape a difficult situation. And many have gone to other countries as well. Still others come only for the hope of making money in a growing economy (much of which is sent back to relatives in their home country). When that hope is removed they don't come or they return home, as is happening now.

The Christian Science Monitor recently reported that "the number of illegal immigrants living in the United States declined to 11 million in 2008 from 12.5 million in 2007. For the first time since the depths of the Great Depression in the early 1930s, more persons appear to have left the US than moved in.” Do you think they left because they were tired of what you call freedom? The NY Times reported that in 4Q2009, more Americans living abroad renounced their US citizenship than in all of 2008 and the numbers continue to grow. Are these people also fed up with freedom? Immigration (and emigration) in most cases is always about economics. This "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" nonsense is a scam. But here's the kicker. According to the 2009 CIA Factbook, the US ranks only 18th in Net Immigration Rate (the difference between the number of persons entering and leaving a country during the year per 1,000 persons). Apparently many immigrants prefer Canada, Australia, Ireland and a bunch of other countries over the US.

[Light]

If they hadn't behaved like animals all these years, no blockade would have been required.

I think Hamas has done more harm than good for the Palestinians.There is more than one way to achieve your goals. But the actions of the few hardliners in Hamas should not condemn the 1.5 million people in Gaza to a life of despair. The vast majority of Palestinians just want to lead a normal life,not drive Israel into the sea.

Collective punishment is specifically barred under article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. You cannot target innocent civilians and violate their human rights to achieve a political objective which is what the blockade does.And if you occupy a people, you have a duty to protect the civilians under your control with adequate food and medical supplies and to maintain public heath standards. Israel is sorely failing in this responsibilty,documented by UNICEF and the World Health Organization.

[Greyfox]

I think Hamas has done more harm than good for the Palestinians.There is more than one way to achieve your goals. But the actions of the few hardliners in Hamas should not condemn the 1.5 million people in Gaza to a life of despair. The vast majority of Palestinians just want to lead a normal life,not drive Israel into the sea.

.

Sounds good in theory. But if memory serves me correctly the Palestinians voted the Hamas party to a majority election victory.

[Light]

Then in your long winded speech about the terrorist Israel, why do you NOT mention EGYPT? They also are part of this blockade!!!

Most Egyptians are opposed to their governments complicity in this matter. The reason the government does it is because they get economic aid from the U.S.

How about the many stories of rockets that fly from Gaza with NO guidance killing and maiming ANYONE in the area?

They havent had many rockets into Israel recently. Hamas has had a ceasefire with Israel for quite some time now. Who says you cant negotiate with "terrorists". Its been successful for the most part except when Israel breaks the ceasefire and then accuses Hamas of doing so.



If Israel wanted to wipe gaza from the map, could they not just do it???

No.


Iran....Their president OPENLY says that Israel should be wiped from the map.


While I don't care too much for Iran's President,he has nothing to do with the Palestinian issue.

[woodtoo]

That's a big bite. That would be tough to back-up. Care to try without hyperbole?

By the way, anyone know how Jordanians feel about Palestinians?

How 'bout Egyptians?

Syrians?

Those Jews. They're so mean.

Those poor neglected Pallies,why don't their muslim brothers offer asylem to them ? Just a reason to rant and rave against Israel.Iran,Egypt,Syria,etc.
open your borders to your brethen.??????? :(

[Light]

Sounds good in theory. But if memory serves me correctly the Palestinians voted the Hamas party to a majority election victory.

Democratically,I might add. But Hamas like all politicians promised the Palestinians a more properous life,while the head of the other party is a well known puppet of the U.S. and were doing nothing to improve the quality of life for the Palestinians . So Palestinians voted for change and like Obama here,their voters have been dissapointed.

[Light]

Those poor neglected Pallies,why don't their muslim brothers offer asylem to them ? Just a reason to rant and rave against Israel.Iran,Egypt,Syria,etc.
open your borders to your brethen.??????? :(

They can't leave if they wanted to. What part of the word "prison" dont you get.

[Greyfox]

So Palestinians voted for change and like Obama here,their voters have been dissapointed.

The bottom line is that the majority of Palestinians voted for a Party with a Covenant vowing to "obliterate Israel." If they didn't know that going into the voting booth, then they were dumber than a truck load of hammers.
They voted for Hamas because they were in agreement with Hamas stated Charter.

[woodtoo]

They can't leave if they wanted to. What part of the word "prison" dont you get.

Palestine is a recognized State, not a prison . They have been issuing passports since 1997 that are accepted in 29 States including Canada and U.S.A. That's the part I don't get.Get a passport and your free to travel
Palestine also has Embassy's' all over the world.

[TJDave]

The bottom line is that the majority of Palestinians voted for a Party with a Covenant vowing to "obliterate Israel." If they didn't know that going into the voting booth, then they were dumber than a truck load of hammers.
They voted for Hamas because they were in agreement with Hamas stated Charter.

In all fairness, I doubt that most Palestinians either agree with or care about the charter. Most, however, understand that Israel does. ;)

And the democracy that Light is proud of espousing?

Previously operating under a shared power agreement, in June 2007 Hamas seized full control of Gaza by military coup killing scores of political opponents and hundreds of innocent civilians.

[Steve R]

In all fairness, I doubt that most Palestinians either agree with or care about the charter. Most, however, understand that Israel does. ;)

And the democracy that Light is proud of espousing?

Previously operating under a shared power agreement, in June 2007 Hamas seized full control of Gaza by military coup killing scores of political opponents and hundreds of innocent civilians.
Been watching too much Fox News I see. It seems that your understanding of the events of June 2007 are a little hazy. After the election of January 2006 in which Hamas defeated Fatah 46% to 41%, the US and Israel began illegally arming the latter. A Bush administration official, the neocon and extreme Zionist Elliot Abrams then publicly advocated what he called a "hard coup" against Hamas. From Elliot Abrams’ uncivil war: (http://conflictsforum.org/2007/elliot-abrams-uncivil-war/) "In the immediate aftermath of the Hamas elections, last January, Abrams greeted a group of Palestinian businessmen in his White House office with talk of a “hard coup” against the newly-elected Hamas government — the violent overthrow of their leadership with arms supplied by the United States. While the businessmen were shocked, Abrams was adamant — the U.S. had to support Fatah with guns, ammunition and training, so that they could fight Hamas for control of the Palestinian government." In June 2007 Fatah, heading the Palestinian Authority in Gaza, attempted such a coup, but was outmaneuvered by Hamas. The essence of the events was captured by no less than David Wurmser, former advisor to Dick Cheney on the Middle East, and himself a neocon who subsequently departed the administration in July 2007. He said in The Gaza Bombshell (http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaza200804) he believed that Hamas had no intention of taking Gaza until Fatah forced its hand. “It looks to me that what happened wasn’t so much a coup by Hamas but an attempted coup by Fatah that was pre-empted before it could happen.” When a Bush insider says that, he just might know what he was talking about. So get your facts straight before you offer up your right wing blather.

[boxcar]

Been watching too much Fox News I see. It seems that your understanding of the events of June 2007 are a little hazy.

And you're guilty of being seduced by leftist propaganda from this site and others like it:

http://conflictsforum.org/what-is-conflicts-forum/

Do yourself a favor and lay off the kool-aid. :rolleyes: You are without a clue about what Islam is all about.

Boxcar

[TJDave]

“It looks to me that what happened wasn’t so much a coup by Hamas but an attempted coup by Fatah that was pre-empted before it could happen.”

in deciding who started this. It was either the bad guys or the other bad guys.

No doubt that Israel and the U.S. armed the PA.

I wonder who was arming Hamas? :rolleyes:

[Steve R]

And you're guilty of being seduced by leftist propaganda from this site and others like it:

http://conflictsforum.org/what-is-conflicts-forum/

Do yourself a favor and lay off the kool-aid. :rolleyes: You are without a clue about what Islam is all about.

Boxcar
Yeah, that quote from Wurmser comes directly from a hard core left wing source - Vanity Fair magazine. You can't possibly be as ignorant as you appear.

[boxcar]

Yeah, that quote from Wurmser comes directly from a hard core left wing source - Vanity Fair magazine. You can't possibly be as ignorant as you appear.

Get a clue. Most mags are left leaning. And you dare call me ignorant? :rolleyes:

Clue #2: The fact that the Conflicts Forum quoted from it proves my point. Now, I'm thinking that if you're not already a pathetic ObamaBucks beggar and you have two nickles to rub together, trying buying a few clues. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Steve R]

Get a clue. Most mags are left leaning. And you dare call me ignorant? :rolleyes:

Clue #2: The fact that the Conflicts Forum quoted from it proves my point. Now, I'm thinking that if you're not already a pathetic ObamaBucks beggar and you have two nickles to rub together, trying buying a few clues. :rolleyes:

Boxcar
Yes, you are as ignorant as you appear.

[boxcar]

Yes, you are as ignorant as you appear.

Any ObamaBucks beggar would probably think that. Your attic appears to be as empty as your pockets. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Steve R]

Any ObamaBucks beggar would probably think that. Your attic appears to be as empty as your pockets. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Boxcar
I don't know what an ObamaBucks beggar is, but if you had even half a brain you would realize from my posts that I consider him almost as useless as you.

[boxcar]

I don't know what an ObamaBucks beggar is, but if you had even half a brain you would realize from my posts that I consider him almost as useless as you.

Yeah, I know...he's not radical enough for you. :rolleyes:

By the way, if you had ever owned so much as a half a brain, you wouldn't have voted for him. So, I guess, at minimum, that would put me a half brain up on you, since I'm not suffering from buyer's remorse. ;)

Ciao,
Boxcar

[newtothegame]

I wonder why Israel is stopping these "floatilla's" of "aid".? Who could possibly be behind these "humanitarian efforts????

Obama’s Friends Ayers, Dohrn, and Evans Behind Pro-Terrorist “Freedom Flotilla” Stunt

It turns out the farcical "Freedom Flotilla (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2010/06/freedom-flotill.html)" was community organized by communist terrorists (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/ayers-dohrn-helped-organize-flotilla-group-95435639.html):


Former Weather Underground leaders William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, as well as Code Pink founder Jodie Evans, helped organize the Free Gaza Movement, which launched the six-ship flotilla from Turkey to Israel that ended in a violent clash with Israeli Defense Forces, BigGovernment.com (http://biggovernment.com/taylorking/2009/12/31/obama-funder-jodie-evans-provokes-crisis-in-egypt-over-hamas-aid-event-obama-pals-ayers-and-dohrn-in-cairo-with-code-pink/) reported.Other misdeeds (http://marklevin.ning.com/forum/topics/ayers-dohrn-murder-case) by Ayers (http://discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2169) and Dohrn (http://discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2190) include leading the Maoist terrorist cult the Weather Underground; publicly advising people to kill the rich and their own parents; instigating riots; participating in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters, the Capitol building, and the Pentagon; killing police officers; inventing the "fork salute" in honor of the Charles Manson killings; plotting to set off a nail bomb at an officers dance at Fort Dix; boasting in the September 11, 2001 New York Times of having no regrets about acts of terrorism; and worst of all, using their own living room to launch the political career (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/02/obamas_radical.html) of Barack Hussein Obama.


Jodie Evans of Code Pink has a rap sheet that includes smuggling $600,000 to terrorists fighting American troops in Fallujah (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2005/01/pink_alert_moon.html) and serving as one of Obama's top fundraisers (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/10/jodie-evans-yet.html). She now seems to hold the position of the Taliban's ambassador to Washington (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2009/11/jane_fonda_jodi.html).

Readers will recall that Ayers, Dohrn, and Evans have teamed up on behalf of Hamas before (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2010/01/obama-friends-a.html). Assisting the bloodthirsty terrorist outfit in its campaign to annihilate Israel appears to be their follow-up to the disastrously successful Manchurian Moonbat project (http://www.amazon.com/Manchurian-President-Communists-Socialists-Anti-American/dp/1935071874).

That these vermin have placed one of their own in the White House means it is not a good time to be Israeli — or American.


http://www.moonbattery.com/bill-ayers_barack-obama.JPG


Bill Ayers and protégé.

http://rightwingnews.com/#post13670

[prolexus]

Do you remember when the Twin Towers were attacked all the people of Gaza partying and dancing?

Or perhaps you remember the billions of dollars that came from Arab nations to support the USA?

Maybe you should remember the 2,100 DEAD Americans in New York and who killed them and continues to laugh at the USA.

Maybe Israel shoud becomes allies with China and Russia and you can have the 22 Arab countries as your partner when push comes to shove.

"We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot ever forgive them for forcing us to kill their children" -- Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir, 1972.

When the Arabs finally learn to love their children more than they hate Israel we may have a chance at peace.

[boxcar]

I wonder why Israel is stopping these "floatilla's" of "aid".? Who could possibly be behind these "humanitarian efforts????

Obama’s Friends Ayers, Dohrn, and Evans Behind Pro-Terrorist “Freedom Flotilla” Stunt

It turns out the farcical "Freedom Flotilla (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2010/06/freedom-flotill.html)" was community organized by communist terrorists (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/ayers-dohrn-helped-organize-flotilla-group-95435639.html):


Former Weather Underground leaders William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, as well as Code Pink founder Jodie Evans, helped organize the Free Gaza Movement, which launched the six-ship flotilla from Turkey to Israel that ended in a violent clash with Israeli Defense Forces, BigGovernment.com (http://biggovernment.com/taylorking/2009/12/31/obama-funder-jodie-evans-provokes-crisis-in-egypt-over-hamas-aid-event-obama-pals-ayers-and-dohrn-in-cairo-with-code-pink/) reported.Other misdeeds (http://marklevin.ning.com/forum/topics/ayers-dohrn-murder-case) by Ayers (http://discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2169) and Dohrn (http://discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2190) include leading the Maoist terrorist cult the Weather Underground; publicly advising people to kill the rich and their own parents; instigating riots; participating in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters, the Capitol building, and the Pentagon; killing police officers; inventing the "fork salute" in honor of the Charles Manson killings; plotting to set off a nail bomb at an officers dance at Fort Dix; boasting in the September 11, 2001 New York Times of having no regrets about acts of terrorism; and worst of all, using their own living room to launch the political career (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/02/obamas_radical.html) of Barack Hussein Obama.


Jodie Evans of Code Pink has a rap sheet that includes smuggling $600,000 to terrorists fighting American troops in Fallujah (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2005/01/pink_alert_moon.html) and serving as one of Obama's top fundraisers (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/10/jodie-evans-yet.html). She now seems to hold the position of the Taliban's ambassador to Washington (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2009/11/jane_fonda_jodi.html).

Readers will recall that Ayers, Dohrn, and Evans have teamed up on behalf of Hamas before (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2010/01/obama-friends-a.html). Assisting the bloodthirsty terrorist outfit in its campaign to annihilate Israel appears to be their follow-up to the disastrously successful Manchurian Moonbat project (http://www.amazon.com/Manchurian-President-Communists-Socialists-Anti-American/dp/1935071874).

That these vermin have placed one of their own in the White House means it is not a good time to be Israeli — or American.


http://www.moonbattery.com/bill-ayers_barack-obama.JPG


Bill Ayers and protégé.

http://rightwingnews.com/#post13670

Yupper, these are BO's kind of people. These are his soul mates. Real salt of the earth people.

Boxcar
P.S. I would to God that he'd turn the whole lot of these vipers into pillars of salt! None of them are fit for humanity!

[Light]

Palestine is a recognized State, not a prison . They have been issuing passports since 1997 that are accepted in 29 States including Canada and U.S.A. That's the part I don't get.Get a passport and your free to travel
Palestine also has Embassy's' all over the world.

What you dont get is this:

Half of the Gaza Strip's 1.5 million people would leave if they could, according to one poll.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/palestinians-gaza-desperate-cross-israel-border/story?id=9299859

That is from pro Israeli ABC news,not some underground Hamas web site. You should check your facts,Jack.

So tell me something. If Somali pirates atacked a ship in international waters, wouldn't it be called "outrageous" and "murder"? If Hamas did this,wouldn't it be called "terrorism"? Israel does it and it's called self defense. :faint:

In 1967,Israel attacked the U.S. Liberty and killed 34 U.S. navy men and wounded 170. There was never an investigation into it despite calls for an investigation. Some speculate that Israel knew who their airforce were bombing because the American Flag was prominently displayed. They speculate that Israel wanted to see what kind of reaction they would get from the Americans. They found out that the U.S. will never condemn them. Wether Israel bombed the U.S. Liberty on purpose or not doesn't make any difference in answering that question because the answer is the same. The message that Israel got is that they can do what they want with impunity and the U.S. will back them,even if they killed one of our own. Which in fact they did. The person I previously mentioned with 4 bullets in his head,was the lone American citizen killed, Furkam Dogan,19. Born in NY and the media and WH act like its "Much Ado about Nothing"

[boxcar]

Palestine is a recognized State, not a prison . They have been issuing passports since 1997 that are accepted in 29 States including Canada and U.S.A. That's the part I don't get.Get a passport and your free to travel
Palestine also has Embassy's' all over the world.

You might want to recheck your assertions.

There are eight criteria accepted by the international community used to determine whether an entity is an independent country or not.

A country need only fail on one of the eight criteria to not meet the definition of independent country status.

Palestine (and I shall consider either or both the Gaza Strip and the West Bank in this analysis) does not meet all eight criteria; it fails significantly on one of the eight criteria...


8. Has external recognition. A country has been "voted into the club" by other countries.

No. "Palestine" itself does not have external recognition nor does it have its own embassies in other independent countries. It is not possible for Palestine to be an independent member of the United Nations at this time.

Thus, Palestine (nor the Gaza Strip nor the West Bank) is not yet an independent country. The two parts of "Palestine" are entities that, in the eyes of the international community, have yet to develop or, more importantly, have international recognition to be considered a full independent country.

http://geography.about.com/od/politicalgeography/a/palestinenot.htm

And here is another little discussed "factoid"

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081224110157AAx7pVj

Note carefully who got the better of the deal after the U.N. and Britain in '47 agreed on the tiny parcel of land to give Israel! The "displaced" Arabs were given a huge tract of land and the best land to boot. It was known at the time as the TransJordan. That was THEIR land. That was the land given to the Arabs in '47.

It's been long known, therefore, that the poor "Palestinians" have been the political pawns of their own ARAB brothers! They have been betrayed by their own for political reasons.

Boxcar

[newtothegame]

What you dont get is this:

Half of the Gaza Strip's 1.5 million people would leave if they could, according to one poll.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/palestinians-gaza-desperate-cross-israel-border/story?id=9299859

That is from pro Israeli ABC news,not some underground Hamas web site. You should check your facts,Jack.

So tell me something. If Somali pirates atacked a ship in international waters, wouldn't it be called "outrageous" and "murder"? If Hamas did this,wouldn't it be called "terrorism"? Israel does it and it's called self defense. :faint:

In 1967,Israel attacked the U.S. Liberty and killed 34 U.S. navy men and wounded 170. There was never an investigation into it despite calls for an investigation. Some speculate that Israel knew who their airforce were bombing because the American Flag was prominently displayed. They speculate that Israel wanted to see what kind of reaction they would get from the Americans. They found out that the U.S. will never condemn them. Wether Israel bombed the U.S. Liberty on purpose or not doesn't make any difference in answering that question because the answer is the same. The message that Israel got is that they can do what they want with impunity and the U.S. will back them,even if they killed one of our own. Which in fact they did. The person I previously mentioned with 4 bullets in his head,was the lone American citizen killed, Furkam Dogan,19. Born in NY and the media and WH act like its "Much Ado about Nothing"

And what you don't understand is the blockade. Maybe you might want to look that up and tell us if its governed by law or not?
To try and justify PIRACY with a blockade...well thats a bit of a stretch even for you....but I do understand light lol :faint:

[Greyfox]

Iran is now spoiling for a fight. They have offered to send revolutionary guards to accompany the next flotilla.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/06/gaza-blockade-iran-aid-convoy

[DRIVEWAY]

Iran is now spoiling for a fight. They have offered to send revolutionary guards to accompany the next flotilla.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/06/gaza-blockade-iran-aid-convoy

The Iranian Guard would be sitting ducks. If Israel enforces the blockade and attacks the Iranian guard what would the international community do?.

Are we talking an all out middle eastern war? Scary.

[newtothegame]

The Iranian Guard would be sitting ducks. If Israel enforces the blockade and attacks the Iranian guard what would the international community do?.

Are we talking an all out middle eastern war? Scary.

the International community could and would do NOTHING! As I previously mentioned, the blockade has legal basis. Now the question is does Iran have the fortitiude to follow through. They, just as Turkey has, are trying to use this as a PR stunt. I say IF they do, Israel WILL stop the ship and Iran will cry on the world stage as they always do. But I doubt seriously Iran tries any confrontational measures.

[DRIVEWAY]

the International community could and would do NOTHING! As I previously mentioned, the blockade has legal basis. Now the question is does Iran have the fortitiude to follow through. They, just as Turkey has, are trying to use this as a PR stunt. I say IF they do, Israel WILL stop the ship and Iran will cry on the world stage as they always do. But I doubt seriously Iran tries any confrontational measures.

Hope you're right.

The difficulty with blockades are the unintended consequences. Accidently killing a recognized humanitarian creating sanctions against Israel or preventing aid from reaching a sick population that mutates and turns into a worldwide epidemic.

If Iran wants war they will need to get Israel to attack them. This way the USA is more likely to stay on the sidelines. Iran has serious rocket technology and reasonable air and naval components. This may only last a few days but the results may be devastating to both sides.

[Greyfox]

If Iran wants war they will need to get Israel to attack them.

It appears that could be what Iran is doing. An attack on the high seas is an attack on Iran, arguably.

[boxcar]

Hope you're right.

The difficulty with blockades are the unintended consequences. Accidently killing a recognized humanitarian creating sanctions against Israel or preventing aid from reaching a sick population that mutates and turns into a worldwide epidemic.

If Iran wants war they will need to get Israel to attack them. This way the USA is more likely to stay on the sidelines. Iran has serious rocket technology and reasonable air and naval components. This may only last a few days but the results may be devastating to both sides.

In a perverse kind of way, I hope Iran does provoke Israel. You can bet that Israel knows where those reactors are and would probably make the most of a good opportunity to dispose of them.

Boxcar

[PaceAdvantage]

In a perverse kind of way, I hope Iran does provoke Israel. You can bet that Israel knows where those reactors are and would probably make the most of a good opportunity to dispose of them.

BoxcarThey would only be following Rahm Emanuel's mantra "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste."

[TJDave]

the International community could and would do NOTHING!

I don't think so.

I seriously doubt that any of the major powers would allow an Iranian warship in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea. That would be way stupid.

[ArlJim78]

I don't think so.

I seriously doubt that any of the major powers would allow an Iranian warship in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea. That would be way stupid.
By major powers, what countries are you referring to?
It seems to me that the list of "major powers" that have the resources and or the will to do anything about it is a short one that begins and ends with the US.
And with the current regime in the US, we will probably be escorting the Iranian ships to their destiny.

Aren't these the same major powers that are supposedly working out the punishing sanctions against Iran? You know, the sanctions that are going to convince Tehran to mend its ways.:rolleyes:

[newtothegame]

What Iran...the free palestinian movement, turkey...and the rest are trying to do is isolate Israel on a world stage. Its all a PR stunt. For Israel though, it is about survival. There is a huge difference between PR stunts and existence. If Iran is smart, they will stay out of it because as another pposter here mentioned (and shown in the past), Israel is not above taking out targets which they see as threats regardless of what most of the "world powers" think.

[boxcar]

They would only be following Rahm Emanuel's mantra "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste."

You took the words right out of my mouth! Can't allow a good crisis to go to waste.

Boxcar

[Show Me the Wire]

The Iranian Guard would be sitting ducks. If Israel enforces the blockade and attacks the Iranian guard what would the international community do?.

Are we talking an all out middle eastern war? Scary.


Exactly what the Iranian religious political leaders want. Iran wants choas, in order to summon the 12th imman. The 12th imman will appear and lead Iran to a new golden age of Islam and eradicate the jew.

It is a scary thought anytime man attempts to infuence God.

[fast4522]

It is a dam shame, Iran is similar in many ways, one half of the country does not like the direction its current nut case is taking them. In my life I have had the opportunity to make friends with people from all walks of life. About half of the folks I have met and talked to, do not require you to agree with everything they do to be friends. There is no doubt we are at the dawn of what may be a very real game changer with Iran who by all accounts are 1/3 of the crude coming from the region. If Iran thinks that it can make Israel back down or appeases in any way its very wrong, and if Iran displays any show of force it will be because Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wants war now and is just the fool to bring WW3 about. For all good people if you do not currently pray now it might be time to learn.

[toetoe]

Cut the crap ... racist murderers.



Rachel, is that you ? Rachel Madcow ? Here, Rachel ... here, Rachel. I bought you some Barackberry Kool-Aid. Come 'n' get it.



Sorry if I misidentified you, Steve R, but upon experiencing the rhetorical chops, the stunningly didactic intellect, the morality that represents the side of good --- well, I just swooned. They're impressive. MSLGBT-worthy, even. :eek: .



To become an even greater leftwingnut genius, try these magic words in front of a mirror:

"It is a stupid law."

"It is a racist law."

"It is an unconstitutional law."

[This next one is very important.]

"Uh, no; I have not had time to actually read the bill."

[andymays]

Reuters crops photos taken by passengers on Gaza flotilla, eliminating activist knives from shots

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/07/reuters-crops-photos-taken-by-passengers-on-gaza-flotilla-eliminating-activist-knives-from-shots/#ixzz0qDgs9w5M


http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?ID=177749

Excerpt:

But when the photos were released by Reuters later in the day, bloggers immediately cried foul, taking note of discrepancies between the Turkish originals and two in particular that had been filed by the international news organization, claiming that Reuters had purposely excluded a knife from one of the photos, and a knife and even some blood in another.


Excerpt:

On Monday, a Reuters representative attributed the cropped photos to “normal editorial practice” and added that once the omission of the knives was realized, the original photos were also released for print.

“Reuters is committed to accurate and impartial reporting,” the representative’s statement read.

“All images that pass over our wire follow a strict editorial evaluation and selection process.

The images in question were made available in Istanbul, and following normal editorial practice were prepared for dissemination which included cropping at the edges. When we realized that a dagger was inadvertently cropped from the images, Reuters immediately moved the original set as well

[Tom]

methinks Reuters lies through their teeth!

[Light]

After shooting most of the dead on the Mavi Marmara in the back or in the head, Israeli's put out a video called "We con the World",mocking the whole incident. It was the 3rd most watched video on youtube during Belmont weekend. The Israeli government has since issued an apology. But contrary to the government's apology,Israeli's have been rejoicing in the streets regarding the incident.This pales in comparison to what Helen Thomas said. She did not shoot anybody nor rejoice and mock them over their dead bodies. Of course the biased media here only talks about the insult from Thomas,a speck compared to celebrating the deaths of innocent civilians killed in cold blood.

Here's the sick video and an apology report:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/07/israel-apologizes-for-cir_n_603459.html

Here's Israeli's celebrating the deaths of the peace activists aboard the Mavi Marmara:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EumUZczJNBo

I don't believe the apology. It's PR. The mood in Israel right now is that Israel can do no wrong. It's the same on PA.Who would have guessed. :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

Hey Light,

I am guessing you didn't have that 10-1 shot in the 12th at Belmont Saturday?

:10: JL Bernstein ?

[newtothegame]

After shooting most of the dead on the Mavi Marmara in the back or in the head, Israeli's put out a video called "We con the World",mocking the whole incident. It was the 3rd most watched video on youtube during Belmont weekend. The Israeli government has since issued an apology. But contrary to the government's apology,Israeli's have been rejoicing in the streets regarding the incident.This pales in comparison to what Helen Thomas said. She did not shoot anybody nor rejoice and mock them over their dead bodies. Of course the biased media here only talks about the insult from Thomas,a speck compared to celebrating the deaths of innocent civilians killed in cold blood.

Here's the sick video and an apology report:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/07/israel-apologizes-for-cir_n_603459.html

Here's Israeli's celebrating the deaths of the peace activists aboard the Mavi Marmara:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EumUZczJNBo

I don't believe the apology. It's PR. The mood in Israel right now is that Israel can do no wrong. It's the same on PA.Who would have guessed. :rolleyes:

Before I comment, let me first say I value all life. But light...you use the term "peace activist" rather loosely. What? No comment in regards to who was financing and behind the floatilla? Of course you have no comment as it was another type of "activist".
And now you come here and don't mention the four divers who were killed? Wonder why? Maybe because who was sponsoring them as well?? Hmmm rather odd I would say that you only comment on what suits YOUR agenda!

[badcompany]

Don't bother arguing with Leftists/Marxist morons. They don't give a rat's ass about Palestinians. They're just trying to separate capitalist allies.

Ethnic cleansing? Genocide?

LMAO

The average lifespan in Gaza is 74 years. That's higher than places like Brazil or Russia.

[PaceAdvantage]

Hey Light,

I am guessing you didn't have that 10-1 shot in the 12th at Belmont Saturday?

:10: JL Bernstein ?This might be up for funniest reply as well at the end of the year...ol' Bernie made my day Saturday...but I'm sure Light already assumed that given his latest rantings...

[Light]

Hey Light,

I am guessing you didn't have that 10-1 shot in the 12th at Belmont Saturday?

:10: JL Bernstein ?

Nah,I was attracted to Medjool.

[bigmack]

Of course the biased media here only talks about the insult from Thomas,a speck compared to celebrating the deaths of innocent civilians killed in cold blood.
Reuters - They're a fairly large outfit wouldn't you say?

Doctoring photos again to make Israel look like the bad guys. They've done this before. That's weird.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/did-reuters-remove-weapons-from-images-taken-on-flotilla/

[Light]

They had knives aboard the ship just like you have knives in your kitchen,to prepare food. They had hammers and screwdrivers for repairs. The depth of irrationality here is mindboggling.

However when Israel boarded the ship,they confiscated all photos,cell phones cameras,audio,etc. and they are busy doctoring those items as we speak.

[TJDave]

They had knives aboard the ship just like you have knives in your kitchen,to prepare food.


So, what were they doing with them out on deck...Filleting fish? :rolleyes:

[Light]

Defending themselves. Do you really think that fighting with knives vs the 5th strongest military in the world is a level playing field? Why arent you more upset about this blatant mismatch in favor of the victims of this massacre.

[ArlJim78]

massacre? please. the turkish ship was warned several times, then they attempted to board it and got the shit beat out of them by the "activists". Israel then had to escalate the force level.

I love this idea (http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177789), an Israeli flotilla to bring aid to the oppressed Kurds in Turkey.
__________________________________________________ _______
Although most of the recent talk regarding flotillas has revolved around ships sailing toward Gaza, at least two plans have emerged for “reverse flotillas” – from Israel toward Turkey – to highlight what organizers have labeled the Turks’ “shameless hypocrisy” in their criticisms of the Jewish state.

The most ambitious of the two plans has been devised by members of Israel’s National Student Union, who this week announced their intention to set sail toward Turkey, in an effort to bring humanitarian aid to the “oppressed people of Turkish Kurdistan” and to members of the “Turkish Armenian minority.”
Student Union chairman Boaz Torporovsky, who has been leading the reverse flotilla charge, told The Jerusalem Post on Monday, “Hundreds of people have volunteered for the flotilla, and many more are contacting us all the time for ways they can help.

“Our plan is to deliver much-needed humanitarian assistance to the Kurds of Turkey, who by the way outnumber Israelis and Palestinians combined,” he said.

“And to show that Turkey has its own issues when it comes to the treatment of its minorities, which they should consider before criticizing us.”

[DRIVEWAY]

massacre? please. the turkish ship was warned several times, then they attempted to board it and got the shit beat out of them by the "activists". Israel then had to escalate the force level.

I love this idea (http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177789), an Israeli flotilla to bring aid to the oppressed Kurds in Turkey.
__________________________________________________ _______
Although most of the recent talk regarding flotillas has revolved around ships sailing toward Gaza, at least two plans have emerged for “reverse flotillas” – from Israel toward Turkey – to highlight what organizers have labeled the Turks’ “shameless hypocrisy” in their criticisms of the Jewish state.

The most ambitious of the two plans has been devised by members of Israel’s National Student Union, who this week announced their intention to set sail toward Turkey, in an effort to bring humanitarian aid to the “oppressed people of Turkish Kurdistan” and to members of the “Turkish Armenian minority.”
Student Union chairman Boaz Torporovsky, who has been leading the reverse flotilla charge, told The Jerusalem Post on Monday, “Hundreds of people have volunteered for the flotilla, and many more are contacting us all the time for ways they can help.

“Our plan is to deliver much-needed humanitarian assistance to the Kurds of Turkey, who by the way outnumber Israelis and Palestinians combined,” he said.

“And to show that Turkey has its own issues when it comes to the treatment of its minorities, which they should consider before criticizing us.”


No one should be beyond criticism. Hypocracy abounds.

[bigmack]

If it were reported that a public handicapper was amongst the Israeli forces, Lights' reaction would be:

A. His head would explode
B. He would move to Turkey and board a flotilla with a swiss army knife
C. Move to Gaza and post his free selections for locals to become wealthy

[TJDave]

Do you really think that fighting with knives vs the 5th strongest military in the world is a level playing field?

Is this a trick question?

[rastajenk]

The level playing field crap is akin to the proportional response nonsense we had to hear during the Lebanon flare up and every other attack on Israel's right to exist. That line of ill logic perpetuates war; it will never bring about peace.

[boxcar]

Is this a trick question?

When a progressive asks this, be sure it's a sick question.

Boxcar

[Hank]

:lol: :lol:

As usual, you're in outer space. In a ethnocracy representatives of a particular ethnic group hold a number of government posts disproportionately large to the percentage of the total population that the particular ethnic group represents and use them to advance the position of their particular ethnic group to the detriment of others.

Tell us Hankie, what is the ethnic make-up of Is?

The set up varies with these things based on what is needed for the dominant ethic group to maintain power, in the case of Israel, many legal and civil rights such as property ownership are qualified by ethnic considerations.

[TJDave]

in the case of Israel, many legal and civil rights such as property ownership are qualified by ethnic considerations.

And you know this...how?

In Israel, ownership of private property is neither restricted by ethnicity or nationality. I have both Christian and Muslim friends who own property there.

[Hank]

Don't let fear and common sense hold you back here, and in spite of disagreements elsewhere, your comments beg an explanation.
1. Why is Israel not a true democracy?
2. Why is the USA not a true democracy?

I don't doubt that you have definitions that might support your case.
But your comments beg an answer as to why you would conclude that.
Please expand on your interesting contribution.
I'm a sceptic here.

1.Israel is not a true democracy because certain rights of citizenship have ethnic qualifications required to receive them.

2.Now the USA is theoretically a true democracy,however in actuality it's a plutocracy where the wealthy basically own and control both congress and the white house. We are only allowed to "vote" for candidates that have been vetted by the ruling class.

[Hank]

And you know this...how?

In Israel, ownership of private property is neither restricted by ethnicity or nationality. I have both Christian and Muslim friends who own property there.

I'm afraid You are misinformed.While you are correct that non Jews may own land in "certain" areas, many are restricted by ethnicity.

[TJDave]

1.Israel is not a true democracy because certain rights of citizenship have ethnic qualifications required to receive them.


Which rights?

[TJDave]

I'm afraid You are misinformed.While you are correct that non Jews may own land in "certain" areas, many are restricted by ethnicity.

I'm a citizen of Israel. Maybe I need a civics lesson. In which "areas" is ownership of private property restricted by ethnicity?

[Light]

massacre? please. the turkish ship was warned several times, then they attempted to board it and got the shit beat out of them by the "activists". Israel then had to escalate the force level.


Nice fairy tale. The truth is that Israel fired at the ship before even boarding.

[Light]

The level playing field crap is akin to the proportional response nonsense we had to hear during the Lebanon flare up and every other attack on Israel's right to exist. That line of ill logic perpetuates war; it will never bring about peace.

Get your priorities straight. It's no longer a question of Israel's right to exist.That is a given considering they are a nuclear power. It is a question of Palestinian's right to exist. They are one of the poorest and weakest on the planet.

[Light]

In Israel, ownership of private property is neither restricted by ethnicity or nationality. I have both Christian and Muslim friends who own property there.

93% of the land in Israel is owned by the state and forbidden to be transferred.

[Tom]

Get your priorities straight. It's no longer a question of Israel's right to exist.That is a given considering they are a nuclear power. It is a question of Palestinian's right to exist. They are one of the poorest and weakest on the planet.

Might benefit them to stop throwing stones and lobbing missiles and ACT like they wanted peace. Hamas was not a bright move.

[Ocala Mike]

Here's a thought from some British dude made about 4 years ago, so not specific to the blockade, but...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/20/comment


Ocala Mike

[bigmack]

I find refreshing to see light rootin' for 'the little guy'

[TJDave]

Nice fairy tale. The truth is that Israel fired at the ship before even boarding.

Couldn't hit the boat, eh?

Those Israelis must be terrible shots. :rolleyes:

[ArlJim78]

Nice fairy tale. The truth is that Israel fired at the ship before even boarding.
nope not true. but it is true that of the six ships, only one of them had any problem. of course it was the turkish ship, whose voyage was organized by terrorists. there wasn't anything humanitarian about it and they couldn't wait for the Israeli's to come aboard. It was their one and only plan. you live in a world of lies.

[newtothegame]

I find refreshing to see light rootin' for 'the little guy'

Somehow i don't think Light will see the humor in this lol.

[JustRalph]

Nice fairy tale. The truth is that Israel fired at the ship before even boarding.

It's called firing a warning shot....... happens in blockade situations throughout history........you never seen the movies where they "fire a shot across their bow"

[Hank]

I'm a citizen of Israel. Maybe I need a civics lesson. In which "areas" is ownership of private property restricted by ethnicity?

You're a citizen of Israel and you profess no knowledge of restricted jewish only roads, and settlements?

[bigmack]

Now the USA is theoretically a true democracy,however in actuality it's a plutocracy where the wealthy basically own and control both congress and the white house. We are only allowed to "vote" for candidates that have been vetted by the ruling class.
I be diggin' the Hank lessons with the whole rich/po vibe. Them school books need your schoolin' Hank.

With any luck, kids of tomorrow will know that we're in a plutocracy. Yippie!

Quick question. Is ska a quick tempo version of reggae?

[boxcar]

It's called firing a warning shot....... happens in blockade situations throughout history........you never seen the movies where they "fire a shot across their bow"

:lol: :lol: :lol: Hey, Light, if the Israelis had been firing AT the ship, they would have sunk the darn thing with all hands aboard. JR is right: It was just a warning shot that didn't harm anyone. Quit being such a drama queen. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[TJDave]

You're a citizen of Israel and you profess no knowledge of restricted jewish only roads, and settlements?


Restricted roads and settlements...In Israel?

And again:

1. Which civil and property rights are only granted to Jewish, I assume you meant Jewish, citizens?

[Hank]

Restricted roads and settlements...In Israel?

And again:

1. Which civil and property rights are only granted to Jewish, I assume you meant Jewish, citizens?

The "Israel Land administration" prohibits leasing land to non Jews and "The Law of return" obviously discriminates with respect to property rights.

[highnote]

"This report is republished with permission of STRATFOR"

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20100531_flotillas_and_wars_public_opinion

By George Friedman

On Sunday, Israeli naval forces intercepted the ships of a Turkish nongovernmental organization (NGO) delivering humanitarian supplies to Gaza. Israel had demanded that the vessels not go directly to Gaza but instead dock in Israeli ports, where the supplies would be offloaded and delivered to Gaza. The Turkish NGO refused, insisting on going directly to Gaza. Gunfire ensued when Israeli naval personnel boarded one of the vessels, and a significant number of the passengers and crew on the ship were killed or wounded.

Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon charged that the mission was simply an attempt to provoke the Israelis. That was certainly the case. The mission was designed to demonstrate that the Israelis were unreasonable and brutal. The hope was that Israel would be provoked to extreme action, further alienating Israel from the global community and possibly driving a wedge between Israel and the United States. The operation’s planners also hoped this would trigger a political crisis in Israel.

A logical Israeli response would have been avoiding falling into the provocation trap and suffering the political repercussions the Turkish NGO was trying to trigger. Instead, the Israelis decided to make a show of force. The Israelis appear to have reasoned that backing down would demonstrate weakness and encourage further flotillas to Gaza, unraveling the Israeli position vis-à-vis Hamas. In this thinking, a violent interception was a superior strategy to accommodation regardless of political consequences. Thus, the Israelis accepted the bait and were provoked.

The ‘Exodus’ Scenario
In the 1950s, an author named Leon Uris published a book called “Exodus.” Later made into a major motion picture, Exodus told the story of a Zionist provocation against the British. In the wake of World War II, the British — who controlled Palestine, as it was then known — maintained limits on Jewish immigration there. Would-be immigrants captured trying to run the blockade were detained in camps in Cyprus. In the book and movie, Zionists planned a propaganda exercise involving a breakout of Jews — mostly children — from the camp, who would then board a ship renamed the Exodus. When the Royal Navy intercepted the ship, the passengers would mount a hunger strike. The goal was to portray the British as brutes finishing the work of the Nazis. The image of children potentially dying of hunger would force the British to permit the ship to go to Palestine, to reconsider British policy on immigration, and ultimately to decide to abandon Palestine and turn the matter over to the United Nations.

There was in fact a ship called Exodus, but the affair did not play out precisely as portrayed by Uris, who used an amalgam of incidents to display the propaganda war waged by the Jews. Those carrying out this war had two goals. The first was to create sympathy in Britain and throughout the world for Jews who, just a couple of years after German concentration camps, were now being held in British camps. Second, they sought to portray their struggle as being against the British. The British were portrayed as continuing Nazi policies toward the Jews in order to maintain their empire. The Jews were portrayed as anti-imperialists, fighting the British much as the Americans had.

It was a brilliant strategy. By focusing on Jewish victimhood and on the British, the Zionists defined the battle as being against the British, with the Arabs playing the role of people trying to create the second phase of the Holocaust. The British were portrayed as pro-Arab for economic and imperial reasons, indifferent at best to the survivors of the Holocaust. Rather than restraining the Arabs, the British were arming them. The goal was not to vilify the Arabs but to villify the British, and to position the Jews with other nationalist groups whether in India or Egypt rising against the British.

The precise truth or falsehood of this portrayal didn’t particularly matter. For most of the world, the Palestine issue was poorly understood and not a matter of immediate concern. The Zionists intended to shape the perceptions of a global public with limited interest in or understanding of the issues, filling in the blanks with their own narrative. And they succeeded.

The success was rooted in a political reality. Where knowledge is limited, and the desire to learn the complex reality doesn’t exist, public opinion can be shaped by whoever generates the most powerful symbols. And on a matter of only tangential interest, governments tend to follow their publics’ wishes, however they originate. There is little to be gained for governments in resisting public opinion and much to be gained by giving in. By shaping the battlefield of public perception, it is thus possible to get governments to change positions.

In this way, the Zionists’ ability to shape global public perceptions of what was happening in Palestine — to demonize the British and turn the question of Palestine into a Jewish-British issue — shaped the political decisions of a range of governments. It was not the truth or falsehood of the narrative that mattered. What mattered was the ability to identify the victim and victimizer such that global opinion caused both London and governments not directly involved in the issue to adopt political stances advantageous to the Zionists. It is in this context that we need to view the Turkish flotilla.

The Turkish Flotilla to Gaza
The Palestinians have long argued that they are the victims of Israel, an invention of British and American imperialism. Since 1967, they have focused not so much on the existence of the state of Israel (at least in messages geared toward the West) as on the oppression of Palestinians in the occupied territories. Since the split between Hamas and Fatah and the Gaza War, the focus has been on the plight of the citizens of Gaza, who have been portrayed as the dispossessed victims of Israeli violence.

The bid to shape global perceptions by portraying the Palestinians as victims of Israel was the first prong of a longtime two-part campaign. The second part of this campaign involved armed resistance against the Israelis. The way this resistance was carried out, from airplane hijackings to stone-throwing children to suicide bombers, interfered with the first part of the campaign, however. The Israelis could point to suicide bombings or the use of children against soldiers as symbols of Palestinian inhumanity. This in turn was used to justify conditions in Gaza. While the Palestinians had made significant inroads in placing Israel on the defensive in global public opinion, they thus consistently gave the Israelis the opportunity to turn the tables. And this is where the flotilla comes in.

The Turkish flotilla aimed to replicate the Exodus story or, more precisely, to define the global image of Israel in the same way the Zionists defined the image that they wanted to project. As with the Zionist portrayal of the situation in 1947, the Gaza situation is far more complicated than as portrayed by the Palestinians. The moral question is also far more ambiguous. But as in 1947, when the Zionist portrayal was not intended to be a scholarly analysis of the situation but a political weapon designed to define perceptions, the Turkish flotilla was not designed to carry out a moral inquest.

Instead, the flotilla was designed to achieve two ends. The first is to divide Israel and Western governments by shifting public opinion against Israel. The second is to create a political crisis inside Israel between those who feel that Israel’s increasing isolation over the Gaza issue is dangerous versus those who think any weakening of resolve is dangerous.

The Geopolitical Fallout for Israel
It is vital that the Israelis succeed in portraying the flotilla as an extremist plot. Whether extremist or not, the plot has generated an image of Israel quite damaging to Israeli political interests. Israel is increasingly isolated internationally, with heavy pressure on its relationship with Europe and the United States.

In all of these countries, politicians are extremely sensitive to public opinion. It is difficult to imagine circumstances under which public opinion will see Israel as the victim. The general response in the Western public is likely to be that the Israelis probably should have allowed the ships to go to Gaza and offload rather than to precipitate bloodshed. Israel’s enemies will fan these flames by arguing that the Israelis prefer bloodshed to reasonable accommodation. And as Western public opinion shifts against Israel, Western political leaders will track with this shift.

The incident also wrecks Israeli relations with Turkey, historically an Israeli ally in the Muslim world with longstanding military cooperation with Israel. The Turkish government undoubtedly has wanted to move away from this relationship, but it faced resistance within the Turkish military and among secularists. The new Israeli action makes a break with Israel easy, and indeed almost necessary for Ankara.

With roughly the population of Houston, Texas, Israel is just not large enough to withstand extended isolation, meaning this event has profound geopolitical implications.

Public opinion matters where issues are not of fundamental interest to a nation. Israel is not a fundamental interest to other nations. The ability to generate public antipathy to Israel can therefore reshape Israeli relations with countries critical to Israel. For example, a redefinition of U.S.-Israeli relations will have much less effect on the United States than on Israel. The Obama administration, already irritated by the Israelis, might now see a shift in U.S. public opinion that will open the way to a new U.S.-Israeli relationship disadvantageous to Israel.

The Israelis will argue that this is all unfair, as they were provoked. Like the British, they seem to think that the issue is whose logic is correct. But the issue actually is, whose logic will be heard? As with a tank battle or an airstrike, this sort of warfare has nothing to do with fairness. It has to do with controlling public perception and using that public perception to shape foreign policy around the world. In this case, the issue will be whether the deaths were necessary. The Israeli argument of provocation will have limited traction.

Internationally, there is little doubt that the incident will generate a firestorm. Certainly, Turkey will break cooperation with Israel. Opinion in Europe will likely harden. And public opinion in the United States — by far the most important in the equation — might shift to a “plague-on-both-your-houses” position.

While the international reaction is predictable, the interesting question is whether this evolution will cause a political crisis in Israel. Those in Israel who feel that international isolation is preferable to accommodation with the Palestinians are in control now. Many in the opposition see Israel’s isolation as a strategic threat. Economically and militarily, they argue, Israel cannot survive in isolation. The current regime will respond that there will be no isolation. The flotilla aimed to generate what the government has said would not happen.

The tougher Israel is, the more the flotilla’s narrative takes hold. As the Zionists knew in 1947 and the Palestinians are learning, controlling public opinion requires subtlety, a selective narrative and cynicism. As they also knew, losing the battle can be catastrophic. It cost Britain the Mandate and allowed Israel to survive. Israel’s enemies are now turning the tables. This maneuver was far more effective than suicide bombings or the Intifada in challenging Israel’s public perception and therefore its geopolitical position (though if the Palestinians return to some of their more distasteful tactics like suicide bombing, the Turkish strategy of portraying Israel as the instigator of violence will be undermined).

Israel is now in uncharted waters. It does not know how to respond. It is not clear that the Palestinians know how to take full advantage of the situation, either. But even so, this places the battle on a new field, far more fluid and uncontrollable than what went before. The next steps will involve calls for sanctions against Israel. The Israeli threats against Iran will be seen in a different context, and Israeli portrayal of Iran will hold less sway over the world.

And this will cause a political crisis in Israel. If this government survives, then Israel is locked into a course that gives it freedom of action but international isolation. If the government falls, then Israel enters a period of domestic uncertainty. In either case, the flotilla achieved its strategic mission. It got Israel to take violent action against it. In doing so, Israel ran into its own fist.

[Light]

:lol: :lol: :lol: Hey, Light, if the Israelis had been firing AT the ship, they would have sunk the darn thing with all hands aboard. JR is right: It was just a warning shot that didn't harm anyone. Quit being such a drama queen. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

You guys keep telling me shit that you make up from thin air. Israel fired shots, not torpedoes and they hit people before they boarded the ship. Though the IDF confiscated everything they could,they missed a couple of things and footage of Israeli's shooting before boarding will be released this afternoon at the U.N. It shows people wounded and dying on the ship and the civilians telling the Israeli navy to stop using violence. This is all happening before a single Israeli has even boarded the ship.

[cj's dad]

You guys keep telling me shit that you make up from thin air. Israel fired shots, not torpedoes and they hit people before they boarded the ship. Though the IDF confiscated everything they could,they missed a couple of things and footage of Israeli's shooting before boarding will be released this afternoon at the U.N. It shows people wounded and dying on the ship and the civilians telling the Israeli navy to stop using violence. This is all happening before a single Israeli has even boarded the ship.

Good - If in fact this did happen as you state may it happen often. The ONLY thing that these jerk offs understand is violence- their entire life is predicated on killing Jews.

[lsbets]

You guys keep telling me shit that you make up from thin air. Israel fired shots, not torpedoes and they hit people before they boarded the ship. Though the IDF confiscated everything they could,they missed a couple of things and footage of Israeli's shooting before boarding will be released this afternoon at the U.N. It shows people wounded and dying on the ship and the civilians telling the Israeli navy to stop using violence. This is all happening before a single Israeli has even boarded the ship.

I assume you're talking about the film created by Iara Lee, the paid Iranian propagandist?

[newtothegame]

I assume you're talking about the film created by Iara Lee, the paid Iranian propagandist?

Why of course Light is....cause he couldnt possibly be using Reuters again after they were shown to be doctoring the photos....:lol:

[Light]

Good - If in fact this did happen as you state may it happen often.

How are you any better than the scum of the earth with that statement. I wouldn't even dream of saying that about Jews or anyone.

The ONLY thing that these jerk offs understand is violence- their entire life is predicated on killing Jews.

Just change the last word in your statement to Palestinians from Jews and you would be correct.

[Light]

I assume you're talking about the film created by Iara Lee, the paid Iranian propagandist?

Yes it's Ira Lee. But give me proof that she is a paid Iranian propagandist. You think that all those people on those boats are paid Iranian subversives as well? You know there were Noble Prize winners on those ships as well as former U.S. representatives on there. Iranian paid too? Man, those guys are good.

[Greyfox]

Yes it's Ira Lee. But give me proof that she is a paid Iranian propagandist. .

Light. You don't think that Iran is the puppet master behind this Turkish flotilla?

I disagree. Today ahmadinnerjacket has said "Israel is doomed."

Iran's Ahmadinejad says Israel is 'doomed'
By D'Arcy Doran (AFP) – 5 hours ago

SHANGHAI — Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Friday Israel was "doomed" and singled out US President Barack Obama for scorn, blaming Washington for orchestrating new nuclear sanctions against Tehran.

Speaking during a visit to the World Expo in Shanghai, Ahmadinejad denounced the UN Security Council's sanctions resolution adopted Wednesday with Chinese and Russian backing as "worthless paper".

The firebrand leader accused global nuclear powers of "monopolising" atomic technology and said the new sanctions would "have no effect" -- reserving most of his tough rhetoric for the United States, not his ally Beijing.

more at link: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5isyj2tN7JOhrI9MQuZZH4O18sqjg

[boxcar]

Light. You don't think that Iran is the puppet master behind this Turkish flotilla?

I disagree. Today ahmadinnerjacket has said "Israel is doomed."

Iran's Ahmadinejad says Israel is 'doomed'
By D'Arcy Doran (AFP) – 5 hours ago

SHANGHAI — Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Friday Israel was "doomed" and singled out US President Barack Obama for scorn, blaming Washington for orchestrating new nuclear sanctions against Tehran.

Speaking during a visit to the World Expo in Shanghai, Ahmadinejad denounced the UN Security Council's sanctions resolution adopted Wednesday with Chinese and Russian backing as "worthless paper".

The firebrand leader accused global nuclear powers of "monopolising" atomic technology and said the new sanctions would "have no effect" -- reserving most of his tough rhetoric for the United States, not his ally Beijing.

more at link: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5isyj2tN7JOhrI9MQuZZH4O18sqjg

Imagine if Israel told the world that "Iran is Doomed"! What if Israel told Iran that it's such a rogue nation that it doesn't have a right to exist any longer? What kind of outcry from the Gentile Nations would ensue in the wake of such pronouncements? The fact that there is virtually no public outcry against these insane rants by Iran speaks to the anti-Jewish mood in the world. Not good....

Boxcar

[lsbets]

She has collaborated with the regimes in both Tehran and Pyongyang. I am not sure if she gained citizenship when she moved to the US, but if she did not, her visa should be revoked and she should be deported. Only in America would someone who collaborates with our enemies be allowed to remain in the country.

[RaceBookJoe]

Imagine if Israel told the world that "Iran is Doomed"! What if Israel told Iran that it's such a rogue nation that it doesn't have a right to exist any longer? What kind of outcry from the Gentile Nations would ensue in the wake of such pronouncements? The fact that there is virtually no public outcry against these insane rants by Iran speaks to the anti-Jewish mood in the world. Not good....

Boxcar

Honestly...If Israel ever said " Iran is Doomed"...i would believe it. I will put my money on Israe'ls "unseen" power any day of the week. Sadly i dont believe middle-east peace, much less world peace will ever be attained, the best we can hope for is no all-out war. rbj

[boxcar]

...the best we can hope for is no all-out war. rbj

And that's just not in the [biblical] cards. This will not go on indefinitely.

Boxcar

[Light]

Light. You don't think that Iran is the puppet master behind this Turkish flotilla?



No.The Flotilla is sponsored by The "Free Gaza Movement". The "Free Gaza movement" (which includes Jewish participants) has sailed several ships previously to bring aid to Gaza and have been successful in the past. You can read about them here on Wikipedia. There is no mention of any Iranian strings and alot of what is said has footnotes to back up their story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Gaza_Movement#cite_note-6

[Light]

She has collaborated with the regimes in both Tehran and Pyongyang. I am not sure if she gained citizenship when she moved to the US, but if she did not, her visa should be revoked and she should be deported. Only in America would someone who collaborates with our enemies be allowed to remain in the country.

Link?

[Greyfox]

There is no mention of any Iranian strings and alot of what is said has footnotes to back up their story.

You don't see any connection then with the meetings the previous few months between the Turkish and Iranian Presidents and the flotilla.
You don't connect any dots between Iran's offer to accompany the next flotilla with their Republican guards??

[boxcar]

You don't see any connection then with the meetings the previous few months between the Turkish and Iranian Presidents and the flotilla.
You don't connect any dots between Iran's offer to accompany the next flotilla with their Republican guards??

You expect him to connect the dots? :bang: :bang: He cannot see them due to his blindness. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[TJDave]

The "Israel Land administration" prohibits leasing land to non Jews and "The Law of return" obviously discriminates with respect to property rights.

The ILA leases to any Israeli citizen regardless of religion.

The "Law of Return" guarantees those of Jewish ancestry an accelerated path toward citizenship. It does not however, limit citizenship only to Jews or place any restriction on the sale of private property.

[Light]

You don't connect any dots between Iran's offer to accompany the next flotilla with their Republican guards??

Iran's problems are not the same as the Palestinian's problems. You need to seperate the political game Iran is playing with the Flotilla and the struggle of the Palestinian people. Mixing them together undermines the struggle of the Palestinian people for basic human rights.

[bigmack]

Iran's problems are not the same as the Palestinian's problems. You need to seperate the political game Iran is playing with the Flotilla and the struggle of the Palestinian people. Mixing them together undermines the struggle of the Palestinian people for basic human rights.
I was unaware of how the world community and specifically Israel is keeping Palestinians from being vibrant, bustling people. Without your insights and nose to the ground awareness this news would have escaped many.

How can this situation be turned around - How can we help?

[Light]

BM

I doubt I enlightened you or anyone else. But I think it would be more fair and balanced if at least one person here defended the bashing of a race where 50% of the population are below the poverty line, most do not have enough to eat,are treated worse than dirt and are all branded terrorists and demonized,so if they are killed or humiliated by their oppressors,it is with impunity. This had been happening since 1948. But the more the oppressor rears its ugly head,the more the truth comes out.

[bigmack]

This had been happening since 1948. But the more the oppressor rears its ugly head,the more the truth comes out.
You called my bluff.

With all due respect, you don't really think Pal's are in their state of affairs as a result of oppression since '48? Longstanding victimhood has a statute of limitations.

I've found some people have a strong want to back supposed underdogs and vehemently vilify others. Tell me you don't swim in that pool.

[boxcar]

I was unaware of how the world community and specifically Israel is keeping Palestinians from being vibrant, bustling people. Without your insights and nose to the ground awareness this news would have escaped many.

How can this situation be turned around - How can we help?

United Way? U.S. bailout money? A Palestinian stimulus package? The obscenely, filthy rich oil sheiks in Saudi (who BO needs to lecture on sharing the wealth)?

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

Iran's problems are not the same as the Palestinian's problems. You need to seperate the political game Iran is playing with the Flotilla and the struggle of the Palestinian people. Mixing them together undermines the struggle of the Palestinian people for basic human rights.

Yes, but even when I do that I come up with the distinct possibility that
1. probably a large number of peaceful activists were aboard that flotilla with humanitarian intentions but
2. they were unsuspecting "front pawns" for a subset of Hamas sympathizers and extremists also on board and set up by Iran with intentions of obliterating Israel.

[Light]

You called my bluff.

With all due respect, you don't really think Pal's are in their state of affairs as a result of oppression since '48? Longstanding victimhood has a statute of limitations.

Many Palestinians still have the deeds to their homes in former Palestine,now Israel and are refused the right to return. I own my home and when I die, my children will take it over. I don't see your statute of limitations applying when generations to come will inherit land and property.

I've found some people have a strong want to back supposed underdogs and vehemently vilify others. Tell me you don't swim in that pool.

Has nothing to do with backing an underdog. Palestinian people were displaced by a colonial power (Britain) that was in turn lobbied by the Zionist movement to grant them the land and displace millions of Palestinian people. Imagine if the French took back New Orleans for French people and turned all those people living there into refugees. Do you think that is fair and that those people turned refugees would not rebel? Or how about England re taking over some parcel of land in this country for the Brits. Yeah,that would go over real easy. :rolleyes: Its natural that there will be a conflict and underdog/overdog is irrelevant.

BTW,the Zionist movement first choice for the Jews was Uganda. Imagine if that went through. Suddenly all Africans would be "anti-semite".

[Light]

Yes, but even when I do that I come up with the distinct possibility that
1. probably a large number of peaceful activists were aboard that flotilla with humanitarian intentions but
2. they were unsuspecting "front pawns" for a subset of Hamas sympathizers and extremists also on board and set up by Iran with intentions of obliterating Israel.

You keep making this claim/assumption that the Free Gaza movement has Iranian connections. But where is your proof? Just like I asked LS for proof that Ira Lee is a paid Iranian collaborator. No proof,no links. This is similar to the McCarthy era. If you were for peace,you had to be a communist sympathizer.

[Greyfox]

You keep making this claim/assumption that the Free Gaza movement has Iranian connections. But where is your proof? Just like I asked LS for proof that Ira Lee is a paid Iranian collaborator. No proof,no links. This is similar to the McCarthy era. If you were for peace,you had to be a communist sympathizer.

The ship came from Turkey.

Turkey and Iran Chiefs of State have been meeting frequently.

I suppose that they are just setting up their next round of golf.

http://www.voltairenet.org/local/cache-vignettes/L400xH300/ME1-1197c.jpg (http://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/jpg/ME1.jpg).

[lsbets]

You like to think of yourself as a pretty sharp guy Light. Its not hard to find the information about her (btw, the name is Iara, not Ira). Do some homework. She has collaborated extensively with the regimes in both Iran and North Korea. She's not peaceful, she's evil.

[Light]

The ship came from Turkey.

Turkey and Iran Chiefs of State have been meeting frequently.

I suppose that they are just setting up their next round of golf.

Dude,I can show you pictures of all kinds of people with other people. That does not validate your assertion of Iranian sponsorship, or creation. There are pictures of Obama with Abbas. Does that mean Obama is funding PLO now and turning his back on Israel? Please, I know what you are trying to do. You are simply trying to undermine the appeal of the Free Gaza movement with make believe ties to Iran.

[Greyfox]

You are simply trying to undermine the appeal of the Free Gaza movement with make believe ties to Iran.

Don't be absurd. I have no interests for or against any free Gaza whoevers.
I simply observe and state what I'm seeing. That others see things differently is fine by me.
I happen to believe that Turkey now wants to become a major "King Maker" or perhaps be made "King" in a loosely sewn together Muslim fabric.
It looked to the West and wasn't completely accepted with open arms although it supposedly is a NATO ally.
It is now being courted by Iran and Syria. All of this has happened under Obama's watch.
Simply stated "The Turkey" has turned on the spit.
Dude, that's a fact.

[Light]

She has collaborated extensively with the regimes in both Iran and North Korea. She's not peaceful, she's evil.

This is what Wikipedia has to say about her. Regarding Iran and N.Korea:

In 2008, Lee moved to Iran, where she supported the exchange of cultural projects between Iran and the West. Lee helped produce Iranian rapper Hichkas' "Ye Mosht Sarbaz (A Bunch of Soldiers)" music video,[7] which was directed and edited by Fred Khoshtinat.[8] During that time she has also worked with US-based peace organizations on efforts to promote peaceful diplomacy between the US and Iran. Also in 2008, after experiencing 2006 Lebanon War firsthand, while residing in Lebanon, Iara created the Make Films Not War campaign.

Iara Lee is a council member of the International Crisis Group and the National Geographic Society, as well as a trustee for the Pyongyang University of Science and Technology, North Korea's first privately funded university, the only in the country whose faculty is entirely composed by international professors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iara_Lee

I see nothing about subversive activities,only peaceful ones.

[Light]

I happen to believe that Turkey now wants to become a major "King Maker"


Turkey has recognized Israel since 1950. There is a free trade agreement between the 2 countries amounting to an exchange of 1 to 2 billion dollars ,which includes military equipment. But Turkey has denounced Israeli oppression in the past on the Palestinian people as well as other acts of violence by Israel. With 8 Turks killed on the ship,Turkey is not about to stay quiet about this either. Again,you keep blaming the victims as if they are the aggressors. Try blaming the people holding the guns,not the dead guys on the floor.

If the Flotilla was really a front to smuggle arms to Hamas,don't you think there would have been at least 1 gun found on board? Do you think Hamas is going to fight Israel with kitchen knives? None of these boats now or in the past carried a single bullet or Israel would have announced it to the world.

[Greyfox]

If the Flotilla was really a front to smuggle arms to Hamas,don't you think there would have been at least 1 gun found on board? .

No. I wouldn't expect any guns at all.
I might expect building materials and fertilizers that might be useful in preparing other weaponry.
Hamas takes care of themselves. They'll never starve.I don't like oppression anywhere.
The biggest enemy of Gaza is the Hamas. The general electorate should wake up and realize that.

[Light]

The biggest enemy of Gaza is the Hamas. The general electorate should wake up and realize that.

That's what Israel has hoped to do with the blockade. To make the Gazan's so miserable that they will oust Hamas.It's been 3 years and Hamas is not any weaker. All this policy has done is to radicalize the population. This is how Hamas came to power in the first place: Israel's hard line stance against the Palestinians.

The International Red Cross has just come out in a statement condemning the blockade as illegal and in violation of humanitarian law.

"The whole of Gaza's civilian population is being punished for acts for which they bear no responsibility. The closure therefore constitutes a collective punishment imposed in clear violation of Israel's obligations under international humanitarian law,"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10306193.stm

On the other hand you have people like Bill Mahr (in the other thread) and NY senator Chuck Schumer who just said:

And to me, since the Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas, while certainly there should be humanitarian aid and people not starving to death, to strangle them economically until they see that’s not the way to go, makes sense.


I got news for Schumer. You cant be humanitarian while simultaneously strangling people to death economically. It hasn't worked and will never work. 95% of Palestinian factories are closed and their water is poluted. The people
are malnourished and medical aid and supply is non existant in most cases. How is that humanitarian and only an economic strangle?

[GameTheory]

That's what Israel has hoped to do with the blockade. To make the Gazan's so miserable that they will oust Hamas.It's been 3 years and Hamas is not any weaker. All this policy has done is to radicalize the population. You forgot the part where they wished to stop all those rockets from flying into Israel. I think that is part of what Israel "hoped to do" with this policy, and it has accomplished that.

[Light]

You forgot the part where they wished to stop all those rockets from flying into Israel. I think that is part of what Israel "hoped to do" with this policy, and it has accomplished that.

That's not what stopped the rockets. The blockade only keeps people in. Rockets can easily fly over the blockade wall as seen in the January 2009 Israeli invasion of Gaza when Hamas launched hundreds of rockets into Israel while the blockade was in place. What stopped the rocket attacks was an Egyptian brokered truce shortly afterwards between Israel and Hamas.

[bigmack]

That's not what stopped the rockets. The blockade only keeps people in. Rockets can easily fly over the blockade wall as seen in the January 2009 Israeli invasion of Gaza when Hamas launched hundreds of rockets into Israel while the blockade was in place. What stopped the rocket attacks was an Egyptian brokered truce shortly afterwards between Israel and Hamas.
Don't they have to get rockets to lob them? I think he was referring to inbound rockets on flotilias.

[Light]

Nice try BM. The day they find weapons on Flotillas for humanitarian aid to Palestinians, your right winged friends on this board will make sure you hear about it.

[bigmack]

Nice try BM. The day they find weapons on Flotillas for humanitarian aid to Palestinians, your right winged friends on this board will make sure you hear about it.
You seem to follow events there closer that most. I was at a BBQ over the weekend that was made up of mainly Jewish folk. Docta's, lawya's, jewela's, the usual. I axed their take on the situation, it varied.

Can I get a thumbnail sketch of how you believe things could be better handled by both sides?

[GameTheory]

Nice try BM. The day they find weapons on Flotillas for humanitarian aid to Palestinians, your right winged friends on this board will make sure you hear about it.But without a blockage, non-humanitarian ships get through -- the ones carrying rockets. Israel has always allowed true aid ships through as long as they follow the rules, go to the correct port, etc. This flotilla was attempting to break a legal blockade, and Israel had every right to do what they did with international law on their side.

[newtothegame]

But without a blockage, non-humanitarian ships get through -- the ones carrying rockets. Israel has always allowed true aid ships through as long as they follow the rules, go to the correct port, etc. This flotilla was attempting to break a legal blockade, and Israel had every right to do what they did with international law on their side.

Game...c'mon...i've tried to legal thing before. Light just chooses to ignore that fact. He only wishes to tell us how the palestinians are suffering due to the big bad israeli's. Please don't mention how Israelis have to worry about crude weapons and rockets with no guidance fly, kill, and mame! Thats different. the Israeli's deserve that....just ask light. :bang:

[Light]

But without a blockage, non-humanitarian ships get through -- the ones carrying rockets.

Pure rhetoric. Where are these rockets seized off these boats.Give me a link to a story. What boats do the Palestinians even own? None. What country wants to risk its neck to be caught supplying arms to Hamas with their own boats. None.

Israel has always allowed true aid ships through as long as they follow the rules, go to the correct port, etc.

What rules did they break? They were still in international waters. At least 60 miles from Israeli waters.

This flotilla was attempting to break a legal blockade, and Israel had every right to do what they did with international law on their side.

International law is just that. For everybody. It's not Israeli law nor does it exclude vessels Israel doesn't like. The entire world except for the U.S. have condemned Israel's actions as illegal and barbaric.

[Light]

You seem to follow events there closer that most. I was at a BBQ over the weekend that was made up of mainly Jewish folk. Docta's, lawya's, jewela's, the usual. I axed their take on the situation, it varied.

Many Jews do not agree with their governments policies,just like Americans and their government.

Can I get a thumbnail sketch of how you believe things could be better handled by both sides?

Contrary to the rhetoric of Hamas being this "evil terrorist organization",they have proved they can negotiate and keep the peace with Israel.They have had a truce with Israel since Feb 2009. They are not Al-Queda. They are locally based and are not interested in the overthrow of other governments or to spread their ideology beyond their borders.

Hamas and Israel need to rachet down their hard line stances. The present parties in both governments are way too extreme right now.

[Greyfox]

Hamas and Israel need to rachet down their hard line stances. The present parties in both governments are way too extreme right now.

On that we agree.

[rastajenk]

A truce? A truce, hudna, in Islamic terms is a period of rearmament, a temporary cease-fire until you're geared up to try it again. Since Muslims are used to getting their asses kicked in wars, this is an important concept which has no parallel in the Western mindset. It's certainly not lost on the Israelis, who have gone through several hudnas already.

[GameTheory]

Pure rhetoric. Where are these rockets seized off these boats.Give me a link to a story. What boats do the Palestinians even own? None. What country wants to risk its neck to be caught supplying arms to Hamas with their own boats. None. Because there is a blockade! If there wasn't a blockade, they wouldn't be risking their neck, would they?


What rules did they break? They were still in international waters. At least 60 miles from Israeli waters. Doesn't matter. According to international law, they can intercept ships while still in international waters if it is a clear attempt to cross a legal blockade. Everyone admits -- including those that sent the flotilla -- that this is exactly what they were trying to do, so Israel was well within their rights to uphold their blockade. Is somebody claiming they were "just passing by" on the way to some other destination? I didn't think so. You could argue that the blockade is not legal, but law also specifies that such a blockade is acceptable to block weapons in response to an act of war. If thousands of rockets coming over your border is not an act of war, what is?



International law is just that. For everybody. It's not Israeli law nor does it exclude vessels Israel doesn't like. The entire world except for the U.S. have condemned Israel's actions as illegal and barbaric.Which they all did INSTANTLY before knowing any facts (or after, and were ignoring them). (It sorta seems like some of them just were waiting for this to happen. Hmm....) First they condemned them, THEN they wanted an investigation to see what happened. Doesn't it make more sense to do it the other way around?

Which shows that anti-Israel sentiment is high, and shows that the flotilla served its intended purpose, which was to make Israel look bad and isolate them. Anyway, they didn't break any laws by meeting them in international waters, and SINCE anti-Israel sentiment is high and they have every reason to be suspicious, they are smart to be extra vigilant and cut them off as soon as possible.

[JustRalph]

I am glad there are no rockets getting in. Those must be snowballs flying into Israel in the middle of the night

[Light]

According to international law, they can intercept ships while still in international waters if it is a clear attempt to cross a legal blockade.

You would be right, if, as you state,the blockade is legal. Since Gaza is under Israeli control, Israel has a duty under the Geneva conventions to adequately supply the inhabitants of Gaza. Approximately 65% were under the poverty level according to a UN report in 2009. 40% were in extreme poverty. Today,its higher. This breaches the Geneva conventions article prohibiting collective punishment. A blockade is prohibited and illegal as a legitimate means of defense if damage to the population is excessive.. The U.N. has asked Israel to lift the blockade several times as a result of this. Even ass kissing Obama,said the blockade is "unsustainable". Yesterday the European union and Tony Blair asked Israel to lift the blockade.

Therefore,since the blockade is illegal,Israel did not have the right to intercept the ships in international waters. They would have had the right if the blockade was legal. But if Israel was adequately supplying the people of Gaza in the first place,there would have been no reason for humanitarian ships and aid in the second place.

[newtothegame]

You would be right, if, as you state,the blockade is legal. Since Gaza is under Israeli control, Israel has a duty under the Geneva conventions to adequately supply the inhabitants of Gaza. Approximately 65% were under the poverty level according to a UN report in 2009. 40% were in extreme poverty. Today,its higher. This breaches the Geneva conventions article prohibiting collective punishment. A blockade is prohibited and illegal as a legitimate means of defense if damage to the population is excessive.. The U.N. has asked Israel to lift the blockade several times as a result of this. Even ass kissing Obama,said the blockade is "unsustainable". Yesterday the European union and Tony Blair asked Israel to lift the blockade.

Therefore,since the blockade is illegal,Israel did not have the right to intercept the ships in international waters. They would have had the right if the blockade was legal. But if Israel was adequately supplying the people of Gaza in the first place,there would have been no reason for humanitarian ships and aid in the second place.

The U.N????? Geneva conventions??? Since when has anyone in the middle east followed this fine establishment of countries and other document.? Now the U.N steps in and says its "illegal". Well they have also said that Iran is in Violation of its nuclear ambitions so I guess you support whatever is imposed against Iran? Shall we continue this game light? Cause if you wish to talk about human right violations, I am sure we can find many to chose from. And I am sure you support them all as they are sanctioned by the U.N right?

[DRIVEWAY]

When does the Gaza turn into a Warsaw Ghetto like experience? Starvation, malnutrition and disease will slowly reduce the population as it did in Warsaw.

I can't believe that Jews around the world would be able to stomach any such comparisons. At what point does the blockade become immoral and when does Israel concede to UN pressure. The UN endorsed Israel's right to exist. Israel quotes this recognition regularly. How can Israel then ignor the UN's appeals to end the blockade?

There are never easy answers in this conflict but nobody wants to start referring to the situation as the Gaza Ghetto!

[GameTheory]

Therefore,since the blockade is illegal,Israel did not have the right to intercept the ships in international waters. They would have had the right if the blockade was legal. But if Israel was adequately supplying the people of Gaza in the first place,there would have been no reason for humanitarian ships and aid in the second place.Hamas is still the ruling authority in Gaza, and they are still holding Gilad Shalit. As long as that is the case, Israel has an excellent case that the blockade is legal. Hamas can end this conflict anytime they choose by relinquishing their authority and returning the Israeli soldier to Israel.

[Greyfox]

Israel has a duty under the Geneva conventions to adequately supply the inhabitants of Gaza. Approximately 65% were under the poverty level according to a UN report in 2009. 40% were in extreme poverty. Today,its higher. .

Absolutely correct. What % of Hamas are in abject poverty?

[ArlJim78]

the truth about your "humanitarians"

k4lspU3_RXM

[Light]

ArlJim78

Nice Israeli sponsored propaganda. Unfortunately the aid said to be delivered never seems to get there.

This is what advisor Dov Weisglass said to Prime-Minister Ehud Olmert at the beginning of the blockade:

"The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet but not to make them die of hunger."

NY Senator Chuck Schumer recently reiterated this idea.

”Israel has blocked off the border and not let anything into Gaza, and I support Israel in doing that, and it may be tough on the Palestinian people, but when they vote for Hamas they are going to have to suffer the consequences.”

So when Schumer (an extreme right wing Jew) says Israel is not letting anything through and is deliberately starving Palestinians,is he lying? Because your video shows forklifts of food to be transported supposedly to Gaza. Somebody is lying. I'd bet my $2 that Schumer is right.Schumer is validating the need for humanitarian goods to the Palestinians with his unabashed endorsement of their suffering by near starvation.Can you say Auschwitz?

[boxcar]

ArlJim78

Nice Israeli sponsored propaganda. Unfortunately the aid said to be delivered never seems to get there.

This is what advisor Dov Weisglass said to Prime-Minister Ehud Olmert at the beginning of the blockade:

"The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet but not to make them die of hunger."

NY Senator Chuck Schumer recently reiterated this idea.

”Israel has blocked off the border and not let anything into Gaza, and I support Israel in doing that, and it may be tough on the Palestinian people, but when they vote for Hamas they are going to have to suffer the consequences.”

So when Schumer (an extreme right wing Jew) says Israel is not letting anything through and is deliberately starving Palestinians,is he lying? Because your video shows forklifts of food to be transported supposedly to Gaza. Somebody is lying. I'd bet my $2 that Schumer is right.Schumer is validating the need for humanitarian goods to the Palestinians with his unabashed endorsement of their suffering by near starvation.Can you say Auschwitz?

Wonder what would happen if Hamas pulled out of Gaza???? Their "Palestinian" brothers might actually get to eat. Whaddya think?

Boxcar

[Light]

That's like Nazis in concentration camps saying "If you werent Jews,you might get to live". Now its "if you werent Palestinian you might get to eat".

[boxcar]

That's like Nazis in concentration camps saying "If you werent Jews,you might get to live". Now its "if you werent Palestinian you might get to eat".

Quit trying to make an analogy. You're no better at it than any other lib.

Hamas is the radical element in Gaza. They should leave so their brothers get to eat. But instead, they use the Palestinians as political pawns...just the way the rest of the Arab world does.

Boxcar

[BenDiesel26]

That's like Nazis in concentration camps saying "If you werent Jews,you might get to live". Now its "if you werent Palestinian you might get to eat".

Define "Palestinian." There's never been an arabic nation known as Palestine. Technically, the Jews in Israel are Palestinians based on where they lived at the time when they were attacked by the six surrounding Arabic nations. As is well known, the plight of the "Palestinians" is nothing more than a political stunt to make Israel look unfavorable in the Arabic quest to eliminate the Jews, who technically, were there long before Islam was even founded. It's amazingly easy to see.

In their own words:

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The
creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."--Zuheir Mussein, PLO

"the Palestinian people have no national identity. I, Yasir Arafat, man of destiny, will give them that identity through conflict with Israel".--Arafat

"Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do it in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel."--Arafat

[boxcar]

Define "Palestinian." There's never been an arabic nation known as Palestine. Technically, the Jews in Israel are Palestinians based on where they lived at the time when they were attacked by the six surrounding Arabic nations. As is well known, the plight of the "Palestinians" is nothing more than a political stunt to make Israel look unfavorable in the Arabic quest to eliminate the Jews, who technically, were there long before Islam was even founded. It's amazingly easy to see.

In their own words:

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The
creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."--Zuheir Mussein, PLO

"the Palestinian people have no national identity. I, Yasir Arafat, man of destiny, will give them that identity through conflict with Israel".--Arafat

"Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do it in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel."--Arafat


Just Arafat's long-winded way of saying that we're going to create an identity for a particular group of Arabs so that the rest of the Arab world can exploit them for political gain. End of story. But Light, who sits in outer darkness, will never see the light to understand this because he doesn't want to.

Boxcar

[Light]

Hamas is the radical element in Gaza. They should leave so their brothers get to eat. But instead, they use the Palestinians as political pawns...just the way the rest of the Arab world does.

Boxcar

FYI, Israel was founded on terrorism. Read some history.Secondly, you cannot starve a population just because you don't like their vote to try to win their government over. That's criminal and that's why the blockade is illegal and that's why people criticize Israel. Instead of seeing the insanity and cruelty of starving innocent men, women and children,Israeli supporters hide behind slogans of "Hamas are terrorists,so we can mutilate the Palestinians all we want" etc.

What do you call starving 1.5 million people? If that isn't terrorism I don't know what is. Put down that burger for a minute and imagine the fear in you when you are hungry or your child is hungry and you don't know where your next meal is coming from and you know someone is deliberately trying to starve you. That is terrorism.

[Light]

BenDiesel26

You're confused. Arafat was saying that since Palestinians lost their homeland in 1948, they have no identity.

BTW,isn't it interesting that Arafat and the PLO faction was considered the terrorist organization in the recent past. Now they are "the good guys" and Hamas are the bad guys.

I'm sure you are not aware that Israel created Hamas for the express purpose of splintering the PLO movement. But that is another thread.

[BenDiesel26]

BenDiesel26

You're confused. Arafat was saying that since Palestinians lost their homeland in 1948, they have no identity.

BTW,isn't it interesting that Arafat and the PLO faction was considered the terrorist organization in the recent past. Now they are "the good guys" and Hamas are the bad guys.

I'm sure you are not aware that Israel created Hamas for the express purpose of splintering the PLO movement. But that is another thread.

Actually, everything I wrote is correct. No confusion here. There was, and never has been, and Arabic Palestine, fact. The Jews inhabited what is known as Palestine long before the founding of Islam, fact. The plight of the Palestine, as is evidenced by the words of the executive PLO leader above, was created as a political stunt to destroy Israel, a motive evidenced by Arafat's quotes. You can squeeze the Arafat quotes all you want to fit your own views, but you can't mince the first quote in any way shape, or form. It is what it is. Apparently, you are the one that is confused. In their own words.

[JustRalph]

Actually, everything I wrote is correct. No confusion here. There was, and never has been, and Arabic Palestine, fact. The Jews inhabited what is known as Palestine long before the founding of Islam, fact. The plight of the Palestine, as is evidenced by the words of the executive PLO leader above, was created as a political stunt to destroy Israel, a motive evidenced by Arafat's quotes. You can squeeze the Arafat quotes all you want to fit your own views, but you can't mince the first quote in any way shape, or form. It is what it is. Apparently, you are the one that is confused. In their own words.

exactly on target! Good post Ben! Some of us remember when the PLO were killing people on a regular basis......I personally don't consider them "the good guys" Terrorists are terrorists.......there is no statute of limitations

[boxcar]

FYI, Israel was founded on terrorism. Read some history.Secondly, you cannot starve a population just because you don't like their vote to try to win their government over. That's criminal and that's why the blockade is illegal and that's why people criticize Israel. Instead of seeing the insanity and cruelty of starving innocent men, women and children,Israeli supporters hide behind slogans of "Hamas are terrorists,so we can mutilate the Palestinians all we want" etc.

What do you call starving 1.5 million people? If that isn't terrorism I don't know what is. Put down that burger for a minute and imagine the fear in you when you are hungry or your child is hungry and you don't know where your next meal is coming from and you know someone is deliberately trying to starve you. That is terrorism.

Hamas is the terrorist. If HAMAS was so interested in their Arab brothers, they'd pull out of Gaza. Then the hungry would get to eat freely.. What Hamas is doing is no different than a terrorist hiding behind women and children in a gunfight. That is terrorism. They are using the people as "human shields" (i.e. political pawns). Plain and simple.

Boxcar

[Light]

There was, and never has been, and Arabic Palestine, fact.

You are playing a Zionist game.Take a look at a map before 1948.

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m376/Light1011/israel/transj.gif

The Palestinian identity is genuine.The Palestinians are those Arab nationals who, until 1947, normally resided in Palestine before they were evicted from it regardless of their origin. I could say the Jews in Israel are not legitimate because they emigrated there from different parts of the world. Are we Americans? Our ancestors were European. This is an old Zionist play on words to marginalize Palestinian statehood.. :sleeping:

[Light]

Hamas is the terrorist. ... They are using the people as "human shields" (i.e. political pawns).


No. Israel is using Hamas as an excuse to commit ethnic cleansing. Before the blockade and Hamas, Israel used other propaganda why the Palestinians should be punished. Israel does not want a two state solution. Proof is in their ever expanding building of Jewish settlements on Palestinian land.

[newtothegame]

No. Israel is using Hamas as an excuse to commit ethnic cleansing. Before the blockade and Hamas, Israel used other propaganda why the Palestinians should be punished. Israel does not want a two state solution. Proof is in their ever expanding building of Jewish settlements on Palestinian land.

And hamas? What is there purpose in all of this? Just another peace loving machine trying to thwart off the evil empire huh?? :lol:

[newtothegame]

Hey light....
Here's a story for ya...I am curious why no outrage. Where are the constant post regarding this?? Which in my opinion is a far greater tragedy....

"This persecution has left some two million people, or a third of the Darfur population, in a situation of grave danger, according to the European Humanitarian Aid Office. (Sudan has a population of more than 32 million.)"

I am sure you are all out to help this TERRIBLE humanitarian crisis ...right...?? Ohh wait, I don't recall you ever mentioning darfur in your posts.:bang:

[newtothegame]

Light....
Damn...these humanitarian tragedies are all over the place if your just willing to look....

Kyrgyzstan faces humanitarian crisis as Uzbeks flee slaughter
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/14/kyrgyzstan-humanitarian-crisis-uzbeks-slaughter

[Light]

And hamas? What is there purpose in all of this? Just another peace loving machine trying to thwart off the evil empire huh?? :lol:

According to Israeli scholar Reuven Paz, Hamas devotes much of its estimated $70-million annual budget to an extensive social services network. Hamas funds schools, orphanages, mosques, healthcare clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues. "Approximately 90 percent of its work is in social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities.

The extensive social and political work done by Hamas partly explain its defeat of the Fatah old guard in the 2006 legislative vote

The Palestinians were not so hell bent on "terrorizing" Israel as they were in receiving aid from Hamas. Of course you would never hear about that so Israel can have an excuse to starve them.

[Light]

newtothegame

I am aware of the greater amount of people suffering in Africa,but the Israeli-Palestinian is unique because the victims are portrayed as the aggressors and the aggressors are portrayed as the victims.

[newtothegame]

newtothegame

I am aware of the greater amount of people suffering in Africa,but the Israeli-Palestinian is unique because the victims are portrayed as the aggressors and the aggressors are portrayed as the victims.

No...its not unique. Its unique for YOU as I have pointed out before. You have an agenda or irons in this fire of wish you do not wish to admit. but thats ok....we all know where you stand. All I am saying is don't pretend like your all up in arms because of the humanitarian problems. There are those same and in some cases worse problems all over the world. its not about humanitarian issues for you...it is About ISRAEL.

[newtothegame]

According to Israeli scholar Reuven Paz, Hamas devotes much of its estimated $70-million annual budget to an extensive social services network. Hamas funds schools, orphanages, mosques, healthcare clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues. "Approximately 90 percent of its work is in social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities.

The extensive social and political work done by Hamas partly explain its defeat of the Fatah old guard in the 2006 legislative vote

The Palestinians were not so hell bent on "terrorizing" Israel as they were in receiving aid from Hamas. Of course you would never hear about that so Israel can have an excuse to starve them.

Damn Hamas has a 70 million dollar budget? And here I thought there was no jobs and things were terrible in gaza.

[BenDiesel26]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/BritishMandatePalestine1920.png/250px-BritishMandatePalestine1920.png

Light, wrong again. The leader of the PLO I quoted who states definitively that there is no "Palestinian" people was not Jewish. This is another fact. Here's another fact for the map you have posted: Palestine in that case was under British rule during that time (see the proper map above). So let me state the FACT again: There has never been an Arabic Palestine, FACT. The Jews occupied what is shown as Palestine on your map LONG before Islam was even founded, FACT. The Jews in Palestine were conquered by the Romans LONG before Islam was even founded (almost 600 years before actually), FACT. This is fun. You can't argue a single one of these, they are all facts. If you can refute the PLO leaders words, post his quote word for word in your next post in large font bold letters and do it. Those are his words, not mine. For some more fun, go look at who the leaders of the British Mandate of Palestine were, post their names. And here's some more, languages spoken in the British territory above were Arabic, English, and HEBREW, fact.

[Light]

No...its not unique. Its unique for YOU as I have pointed out before. You have an agenda or irons in this fire of wish you do not wish to admit. but thats ok....we all know where you stand. All I am saying is don't pretend like your all up in arms because of the humanitarian problems. There are those same and in some cases worse problems all over the world. its not about humanitarian issues for you...it is About ISRAEL.

Typical response by right wingers when someone criticizes Israel. :sleeping:

[Light]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/BritishMandatePalestine1920.png/250px-BritishMandatePalestine1920.png

Here's another fact for the map you have posted: Palestine in that case was under British rule during that time (see the proper map above).

At that time? You're confused again. Your map is from 1917- 1922

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m376/Light1011/israel/bmand.gif

Mine is from 1923-1947

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m376/Light1011/israel/transj.gif

[boxcar]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/BritishMandatePalestine1920.png/250px-BritishMandatePalestine1920.png

Light, wrong again. The leader of the PLO I quoted who states definitively that there is no "Palestinian" people was not Jewish. This is another fact. Here's another fact for the map you have posted: Palestine in that case was under British rule during that time (see the proper map above). So let me state the FACT again: There has never been an Arabic Palestine, FACT. The Jews occupied what is shown as Palestine on your map LONG before Islam was even founded, FACT. The Jews in Palestine were conquered by the Romans LONG before Islam was even founded (almost 600 years before actually), FACT. This is fun. You can't argue a single one of these, they are all facts. If you can refute the PLO leaders words, post his quote word for word in your next post in large font bold letters and do it. Those are his words, not mine. For some more fun, go look at who the leaders of the British Mandate of Palestine were, post their names. And here's some more, languages spoken in the British territory above were Arabic, English, and HEBREW, fact.

You gotta be kidding! Light can't handle one fact, let alone multiples. You surely have perpetrated irreparable damage to his cerebral circuitry.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

At that time? You're confused again. Your map is from 1917- 1922

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m376/Light1011/israel/bmand.gif

Mine is from 1923-1947

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m376/Light1011/israel/transj.gif

Post the link, please, from whence you post these maps.

Boxcar

[newtothegame]

Typical response by right wingers when someone criticizes Israel. :sleeping:

You may call it typical or whatever you like light...but it still remains that you have been unable to answer any questions regarding what I have shown to be your hatred of Israel.
You come on here showing yourself to be for the humanitarian rights of the palestinians...yet every opportunity knocking Israel all the while.
When I show you other, and in some cases more devestating cases of humanitarian issues, you just pass em by.
When I previously asked about your nationality, you didnt answer and called me a racist for asking.
You colors run with hate for israel. And thats ok with me...honestly it is. The problem is that you can't just admit it and be done with it. You wish to have people believe its something else...
Just as you say us right wingers will defend israel to no end...you should admit you hate them as much as we defend them. It may truly add another "light" to your life.
I know who I am...and comfortable with it. I just wish the same inner peace for yourself.

[Light]

BenDiesel26

Just because it was under Britsh rule does not lessen the legality of the people living in that region. Bristain had no right to give away the land to Jews or anybody. They are/were a colonial power which we as Americans rejected and overthrew. But somehow it is OK if Britain tells the people of Palestine what to do and where to live, but it was criminal that they told Americans what to do. You must assume Palestinians are without rights.

[boxcar]

BenDiesel26

Just because it was under Britsh rule does not lessen the legality of the people living in that region. Bristain had no right to give away the land to Jews or anybody. They are/were a colonial power which we as Americans rejected and overthrew. But somehow it is OK if Britain tells the people of Palestine what to do and where to live, but it was criminal that they told Americans what to do. You must assume Palestinians are without rights.

No! What many of us KNOW is that these non-existent "Palestinians" have no regard for the rule of law. Fact number one.

Fact Number Two: It wasn't GB that got to decide the fate of the Jews and Arabs in 1947. Of all political bodies, it was ultimately your favorite, beloved United Numskulls (proving once again, God really does have a sense of humor) that decided and both parties agreed -- except, of course, for the ne'er do well Arabs in the region, as evidenced, for example, by the 1948 War that shortly followed on the heels of that agreement, and in which Israel kicked some butt in protecting it's newly acquired, U.N.-sanctioned territory.

Revisionist history, Mr. Light, ain't gonna get you anywhere on this forum.

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/BritishMandatePalestine1920.png/250px-BritishMandatePalestine1920.png

.

My Great Uncle "Winnie" and a couple of friends drew that map.
They just sat down with rulers and drew straight lines in the sand.

[bigmack]

I'm sure you are not aware that Israel created Hamas for the express purpose of splintering the PLO movement. But that is another thread.
Now that's a thread that would hold some interest. Can you go deep on this?

[newtothegame]

Now that's a thread that would hold some interest. Can you go deep on this?

So now light tells us that "Israel created Hammas"...
Oh this should be fun......:lol:

[Light]

I have shown to be your hatred of Israel.


Israel as it is now is a very hated country by alot of people in the world. Not because they are Jews. Mainly because Israel has violated human rights of all non Jews in the middle east more than the most wretched cointry on the planet and they call themselves democratic.They kill people of the boats and they call it self defense. They carpet bombed Lebanon,straight drop on civilians and they say Hezbollah was hiding behind civilians. They used white phosphorous on the civilian people in Gaza in Jan 2009 and blame Hamas.They cluster bombed Lebanese civilians and will not give coordinates of leftover cluster bombs still killing civilians today. They are the reason Osama says inspired him for revenge in 911. This is just the tip of the iceberg of atrocities caused by Israel and the suffering they have brought to the region. And then they lie and lie to cover it up.Can you blame anyone who cares about people to dislike such a disgusting attitude towards humanity?

Not only are they disgusting in their treatment of their neighbors but they are a recruitment for extreme radical islamic organizations. You will never ever ever ever get rid of terrorism when there is a country behaving as badly as Israel. This is why the war on terrorism is a total and complete sham. The higher ups in this country sell the "terrorism" scam to the public while not believing it for a second because they know they are perpetuating it by supporting Israel's criminal campaign or Obama's drone attacks which is making Bush look good. "The war on terrorism" is nothing more than excuse to bully other countries into submission regardless of who gets hurt,civilian or military, and those in power know it and you don't.

[newtothegame]

Israel as it is now is a very hated country by alot of people in the world. Not because they are Jews. Mainly because Israel has violated human rights of all non Jews in the middle east more than the most wretched cointry on the planet and they call themselves democratic.They kill people of the boats and they call it self defense. They carpet bombed Lebanon,straight drop on civilians and they say Hezbollah was hiding behind civilians. They used white phosphorous on the civilian people in Gaza in Jan 2009 and blame Hamas.They cluster bombed Lebanese civilians and will not give coordinates of leftover cluster bombs still killing civilians today. They are the reason Osama says inspired him for revenge in 911. This is just the tip of the iceberg of atrocities caused by Israel and the suffering they have brought to the region. And then they lie and lie to cover it up.Can you blame anyone who cares about people to dislike such a disgusting attitude towards humanity?

Not only are they disgusting in their treatment of their neighbors but they are a recruitment for extreme radical islamic organizations. You will never ever ever ever get rid of terrorism when there is a country behaving as badly as Israel. This is why the war on terrorism is a total and complete sham. The higher ups in this country sell the "terrorism" scam to the public while not believing it for a second because they know they are perpetuating it by supporting Israel's criminal campaign or Obama's drone attacks which is making Bush look good. "The war on terrorism" is nothing more than excuse to bully other countries into submission regardless of who gets hurt,civilian or military, and those in power know it and you don't.

Lmao...since you wont admit it...its ok light...You hate Israel...we got it!!!
Now do ya feel better getting that out and off your shoulders??? :bang:

[bigmack]

They are the reason Osama says inspired him for revenge in 911. This is just the tip of the iceberg of atrocities caused by Israel and the suffering they have brought to the region. And then they lie and lie to cover it up.Can you blame anyone who cares about people to dislike such a disgusting attitude towards humanity?

Not only are they disgusting in their treatment of their neighbors but they are a recruitment for extreme radical islamic organizations. You will never ever ever ever get rid of terrorism when there is a country behaving as badly as Israel. This is why the war on terrorism is a total and complete sham.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/anhoofprints.gif

Don't mind me. Just walkin' by, drinkin' in the show.

Do wacka do... Do wacka do... (Repeat & fade)

[Light]

Now that's a thread that would hold some interest. Can you go deep on this?

Here's a 3 minute primer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPwNk0CJSiY

[boxcar]

Now that's a thread that would hold some interest. Can you go deep on this?

If he goes any deeper, his tongue will be licking his lungs.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Here's a 3 minute primer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPwNk0CJSiY

This is more than three-minute read, so I realize you won't be up to this monumental challenge. :rolleyes:

http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm

It is particularly interesting as to which country primarily betrayed the so-called Palestinians during the Israeli '48 War for Independence. Would you believe Jordan?

Boxcar

[Light]

Would you believe Jordan?



No,but you would.

[Light]

Lmao...since you wont admit it...its ok light...You hate Israel...we got it!!!
Now do ya feel better getting that out and off your shoulders???
:bang:

You asked me why I hated Israel. I answered. There's nothing to get off my shoulders except dandruff.

[newtothegame]

This is more than three-minute read, so I realize you won't be up to this monumental challenge. :rolleyes:

http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm

It is particularly interesting as to which country primarily betrayed the so-called Palestinians during the Israeli '48 War for Independence. Would you believe Jordan?

Boxcar

Here light...I will help ya out...
"Box...that zionist propoganda...you can't possibly believe that." "Only the material I post is actual and factual".

Fell better light??? :lol:

[boxcar]

You asked me why I hated Israel. I answered. There's nothing to get off my shoulders except dandruff.

It would be most beneficial to you, however, if you could also get that head of yours screwed onto your shoulders straight. Dandruff is really the least of your problems.

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

Mainly because Israel has violated human rights of all non Jews in the middle east more than the most wretched cointry on the planet and they call themselves democratic..

? I understand that you made a typo and meant country above.
But you said.....that Israel has violated human rights of all non Jews in the middle east more than the most wretched country on the planet...
Help us out here? Which country is the most wretched on the planet???

[newtothegame]

It would be most beneficial to you, however, if you could also get that head of yours screwed onto your shoulders straight. Dandruff is really the least of your problems.

Boxcar

lol :lol:

[Light]

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/anhoofprints.gif

Don't mind me. Just walkin' by, drinkin' in the show.

Do wacka do... Do wacka do... (Repeat & fade)

I always thought that you were more informed. You didn't know Israel created Hamas? Ron Paul knew (most congressmen know but dont say). Now you also don't know that Osama's proclamation for inspiration for 911 was watching Israel bomb Lebanon in the 1980's when Jews I know came up to me and told me they were ashamed to be called Jews at that time because of Israel's murder. Where you been? This is typical American understanding of Israel. Less you know,the better for Israel.

[newtothegame]

? I understand that you made a typo and meant country above.
But you said.....that Israel has violated human rights of all non Jews in the middle east more than the most wretched country on the planet...
Help us out here? Which country is the most wretched on the planet???

You know what his reply is gonna be....or her (I want to not assume to much here)...
The good ole ......... Go ahead light and finish it for grey :)

[Tom]

China?

[boxcar]

? I understand that you made a typo and meant country above.
But you said.....that Israel has violated human rights of all non Jews in the middle east more than the most wretched country on the planet...
Help us out here? Which country is the most wretched on the planet???

If you were to ask BO that, he'd probably say the U.S. Why else does he go around the globe always ashamed of us and apologizing on our behalf? Why else would he want to fundamentally change the face of America?

Boxcar

[bigmack]

Here's a 3 minute primer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPwNk0CJSiY
Oh baby, I love that stuff.

RP goes way deep though, huh?

[Greyfox]

China?

That's for the dinner table.
Light still has to come forth and say "The most wretched country on earth is..._ _ _ _ _ _ _ or also known as _ _ _."

[Light]

? I understand that you made a typo and meant country above.
But you said.....that Israel has violated human rights of all non Jews in the middle east more than the most wretched country on the planet...
Help us out here? Which country is the most wretched on the planet???

Israel practices apartheid towards Palestinians. I don't know any other country that has been condemned more times by the U.N, Amnesty international,the Red cross and other human rights organizations in the last 10 years than Israel. So maybe Israel is the most wretched country in the world...if you are a Palestinian.

Which country besides Israel is the most wretched? It really depends who you are. For example Rwanda was the most wretched for Tutsis but not Hutu's. But if you were a pro peace Hutu, it quickly became wretched for you as well because they were butchered too. Its all relative.

[Light]

Oh baby, I love that stuff.

RP goes way deep though, huh?

I did say that was a "primer" didn't I?

[newtothegame]

Israel practices apartheid towards Palestinians. I don't know any other country that has been condemned more times by the U.N, Amnesty international,the Red cross and other human rights organizations in the last 10 years than Israel. So maybe Israel is the most wretched country in the world...if you are a Palestinian.

Which country besides Israel is the most wretched? It really depends who you are. For example Rwanda was the most wretched for Tutsis but not Hutu's. But if you were a pro peace Hutu, it quickly became wretched for you as well because they were butchered too. Its all relative.

But thats NOT what you said.....and they didnt ask you what others thought. they asked what YOU thought was the most wretched country as you wrote about.....
lol

[Greyfox]

Which country besides Israel is the most wretched?... Its all relative.

It is all relative isn't it.
That begs the probe though that some country must be the most wretched in your opinion. So relative to your thinking , which country is the most wretched??

[bigmack]

I did say that was a "primer" didn't I?
Dig. Don't tell me you run in a world whereby you would ever say to anyone -

Bob, you were my friend but I found out years ago that you were good chums with Al. Turns out I don't like Al. Never did. I never knew that about you liking Al so I have to think of you as my enemy. By the way, I knew Karen before you did, and she always said she never liked you.

This is what I mean about RP - "Going Deep"

At some point I could be friends with someone. Then again, if that ends I'd have found it to be a dalliance in time.

It never ends. But I groove on RP. :ThmbUp:

[Light]

It is all relative isn't it.
That begs the probe though that some country must be the most wretched in your opinion. So relative to your thinking , which country is the most wretched??

Its a figure of speech and it is relative. I don't have a country in mind but there are certainly many candidates. If you keep score by human rights violations,I think Israel is tops.