socal weird claim

[bobbyt62]

in todays fifth race (sunday may 30) melody conlon won with a horse she "claimed from herself"....today she was owner/trainer. in previous race she was trainer for john "bet a million" liviakis......they claimed the gelding march 18 from mike machowsky out of a winning maiden claiming effort for $25,000, and in his next start on april 17, ran him in a $12,500 nw2l, where he ran third for liviakis/conlon. today, conlon is owner/trainer (and winner at $12) in the same condition. has anybody ever seen that type of thing before ? liviakis may be stupid, but if he allows this, it has to make him a world class idiot. claim for 25, run next for 12.5, and get claimed by YOUR trainer ! it must be legal, though you'd think the racing association would have some type of rule against it. even if there are no rules, isn't this unethical ? i've been racing for 30 years, and i used to track private sales and claims before the form used to print all the previous trainers like they do now, and i cannot recall anything like this. i HAVE seen plenty of times where a trainer bought the horse PRIVATELY (or some other way of paying) and became owner/trainer (especially common at small tracks) but i've never seen an owner's trainer claim from the owner--especially a 25k for 12.5 !

[Stillriledup]

in todays fifth race (sunday may 30) melody conlon won with a horse she "claimed from herself"....today she was owner/trainer. in previous race she was trainer for john "bet a million" liviakis......they claimed the gelding march 18 from mike machowsky out of a winning maiden claiming effort for $25,000, and in his next start on april 17, ran him in a $12,500 nw2l, where he ran third for liviakis/conlon. today, conlon is owner/trainer (and winner at $12) in the same condition. has anybody ever seen that type of thing before ? liviakis may be stupid, but if he allows this, it has to make him a world class idiot. claim for 25, run next for 12.5, and get claimed by YOUR trainer ! it must be legal, though you'd think the racing association would have some type of rule against it. even if there are no rules, isn't this unethical ? i've been racing for 30 years, and i used to track private sales and claims before the form used to print all the previous trainers like they do now, and i cannot recall anything like this. i HAVE seen plenty of times where a trainer bought the horse PRIVATELY (or some other way of paying) and became owner/trainer (especially common at small tracks) but i've never seen an owner's trainer claim from the owner--especially a 25k for 12.5 !

He wants to run a 25k horse for half the price so he can win his bet....and, at the same time, have at least a 10 to 100 percent chance of actually retaining his own runner. Since there's nothing wrong with the horse, he may as well try and get his own runner back for half the price if he can.

[Robert Goren]

what track?

[bobbyt62]

you misunderstand-----liviakis/conlon claim for 25k---run back for 12.5 , get third, AND IN THE RACE where he runs third for liviakis, conlon, his trainer, claims FROM HIM for 12.5. the economics are that he is out 12.5k (paid 25, got 12.5) and his bet from the third, add back in purse money for third---maybe out 10-20k, and he lost the horse----to HIS trainer. even if the money means nothing to him, it still seems INCREDIBLY unethical. AND the horse wins today, after conlon claims the horse from her owner at half his price paid !

[bobbyt62]

hollywood

[bobbyt62]

if somebody could direct vic stauffer to this thread, i 'd be interested to hear his take on the affair--he is online right now, i see.

[andymays]

It looks funny but it was probably a private purchase.

[GameTheory]

I think Stillriledup is saying that the same owner is the money behind this claim -- he is claiming his own horse (in the trainer's name) as a means to protect against someone else claiming it. (Which does seem unethical from the point of view of anyone else who might want to put in a claim slip.) And if that isn't exactly it, I'm sure it is something the trainer and owner cooked up together. Maybe the owner needed it off his books for whatever reason, etc, although no reason not to do it privately then. Protection against claim seems the most plausible, or maybe you are right and the trainer has a vendetta against the owner (highly doubt that).

[andymays]

I think Stillriledup is saying that the same owner is the money behind this claim -- he is claiming his own horse (in the trainer's name) as a means to protect against someone else claiming it. (Which does seem unethical from the point of view of anyone else who might want to put in a claim slip.) And if that isn't exactly it, I'm sure it is something the trainer and owner cooked up together. Maybe the owner needed it off his books for whatever reason, etc, although no reason not to do it privately then. Protection against claim seems the most plausible, or maybe you are right and the trainer has a vendetta against the owner (highly doubt that).


It could be. Maybe Liviakis is in the soup and he can't have his name as the owner.

[bobbyt62]

i have the form right in front of me------i'm trying to find the sa claims report, but the only one i can find goes only through april 8

[bobbyt62]

well, if it really is liviakis claiming his own horse, that is wrong and the stewards are not supposed to allow it.

[andymays]

well, if it really is liviakis claiming his own horse, that is wrong and the stewards are not supposed to allow it.

Another injustice in Horse Racing. Say it aint so. ;)

[bobbyt62]

it's not an injustice, per se, but it points out the weak oversight of even the most basic elements of racing in socal. it would require almost no effort for the stewards to not allow such nonsense.

[andymays]

it's not an injustice, per se, but it points out the weak oversight of even the most basic elements of racing in socal. it would require almost no effort for the stewards to not allow such nonsense.


If he owns the horse through some type of shady deal to get the odds up then it's an injustice. This guy normally bets big and without his name as owner it threw people off. Otherewise this horse is 9-5.

[Stillriledup]

I dont think a trainer should be able to claim a horse off themselves, even if they're claiming it for a 'different' owner.

[andymays]

I dont think a trainer should be able to claim a horse off themselves, even if they're claiming it for a 'different' owner.

Yes, I think that falls under the moral terpitude clause.

[kenwoodall2]

H website claims register shows no such claim today or yesterday.

[kenwoodall2]

Nothing showing for 4-17.

[bobbyt62]

horse was claimed at SA, whose claims register goes through april 8

[rwwupl]

Please check the Equibase Charts for April 17th... I think it shows Carl O'Callaghan claimed the horse. Melody Conlon must have purchased the horse back for herself.

Just to keep things straight...The Stewards will review this interpretation.

rwwupl

[rwwupl]

Please check the Equibase Charts for April 17th... I think it shows Carl O'Callaghan claimed the horse. Melody Conlon must have purchased the horse back for herself.

Just to keep things straight...The Stewards will review this interpretation.

rwwupl

From CHRB via e-mail Mike Marten:

As usual, the stewards were right on top of this. They determined that 30 days after the claim (as required by CHRB rules), Conlon bought the horse back for herself. The bill of sale is on file in the racing office with the papers. Everything appears in order and in compliance with the rules.

Mike Marten

rwwupl

[bobbyt62]

rwwupl.............thank you so much for your effort in clarifying this for me/us. i'm sure a lot of people don't think anything of it, as it's not directly related to a bet, but i was amazed that what i (mistakenly) thought had happened was permitted. thanks again......