Seems like Zetcher/Sheriffs have no problem shipping Zardana...hmm...

[Headbanger]

Zardana coming East, yet Ms. Superhorse cant??? (http://www.drf.com/news/article/113408.html)

Seems odd that Zetcher is willing to ship from CA to Louisana, CA to Kentucky, and now CA to New York, but Zenyatta can't do the same even though she'll only be facing slightly better tomato cans according to all of you...

[SoCalCircuit]

Different owners...unrelated

[Sericm]

Zardana coming East, yet Ms. Superhorse cant??? (http://www.drf.com/news/article/113408.html)

Seems odd that Zetcher is willing to ship from CA to Louisana, CA to Kentucky, and now CA to New York, but Zenyatta can't do the same even though she'll only be facing slightly better tomato cans according to all of you...

Another Zenyatta bashing thread! If you owned the horse and paid the bills maybe you could decide where she runs. But since you don't I really believe its up to the Moss's BORING!!!!!!!

Sericm

[FenceBored]

Another Zenyatta bashing thread! If you owned the horse and paid the bills maybe you could decide where she runs. But since you don't I really believe its up to the Moss's BORING!!!!!!!

Sericm


When someone wears an ugly shirt to the track, it's his/her decision. But other people still have the right to notice and comment amongst themselves.

[Tom]

But, do you talk about it all day long? :rolleyes:

[NTamm1215]

The ultimate hypocrisy will be if she runs on a sloppy and/or sealed track.

NT

[bks]

Zardana is a glorified allowance horse. Who cares what she does?

[Headbanger]

Zardana is a glorified allowance horse. Who cares what she does?

So Sherriffs/Zetcher have no fears shipping a glorified allowance horse all over the country, yet the Moss's are petrified to ship a "Champion" for fears that she may not face glorified allowance horses, aka tomato cans on the East Coast. It's about time the Moss's grew some balls and raced a great mare like Zenyatta out of her comfort zone. It's crap like that, that pisses people off about Zenyatta.

[WinterTriangle]

It's crap like that, that pisses people off about Zenyatta.

Only some people.


(Who would probably find something else to be pissed off about if she didn't exist. ) :D

[joanied]

Only some people.


(Who would probably find something else to be pissed off about if she didn't exist. ) :D

Right.
I can't wait to see Zenny race again, and I am bummed they have not made known the plans they have for her...but starting another thread to re-hash the same 'ol, same 'ol is :bang:

It's frustrating that the Moss's don't sem to be following through with their statement that they'd travel with Z so folks could see her (and she could find some new competition)...but, hey...IMO, it doesn't warrant anyone bashing them...it sure won't get them to change whatever plans they do have :faint:

[cj]

Right.
It's frustrating that the Moss's don't sem to be following through with their statement that they'd travel with Z so folks could see her (and she could find some new competition)...but, hey...IMO, it doesn't warrant anyone bashing them...it sure won't get them to change whatever plans they do have :faint:

If you are in the public eye and you basically lie, then make up silly stories that even the biggest dimwit can see through to explain your lie, you deserve to be bashed. What exactly would warrant bashing in your eyes?

[letswastemoney]

Zardana doesn't have a bobblehead day deal going on. Of course with that in mind, why would they stay?

[WinterTriangle]

What exactly would warrant bashing in your eyes?

Giving any horse a grueling schedule that would be costly to their fitness and health, to the point where they may only ever be 75% of their former selves?


You will not be able to douse the admiration that so many fans, both here and abroad, have for the Mosses and Sheriffs for taking such good care of Zenyatta, keeping her sound and happy (she sparkles still and loves her job) , so that she can still race in her 6th year.

You can try though. ;)

[joanied]

If you are in the public eye and you basically lie, then make up silly stories that even the biggest dimwit can see through to explain your lie, you deserve to be bashed. What exactly would warrant bashing in your eyes?

Good points, cj. it would be nice if they'd stop the silly $hit...like shipping over the Rockies...I can't say they are liars, but they do have a way of avoiding coming out and saying just what they do plan for Zenyatta...after the Vanity.
And unless someone steps in with some real competition, Z will win it...again:faint:

I'm thinking maybe what they want to do is get that elusive #17...then maybe they'll put her on a plane and let her face some real race horses...

I don't think you really expect I can answer your question...and I guess if we want to post time after time that they are liars or whatever, folks are sure entitled to do so...but I can disagree about it...anf hope her connections come to their senses and come forward with a scheduel that we can latch onto and discuss. Wishful thinking?

[Headbanger]

Giving any horse a grueling schedule that would be costly to their fitness and health, to the point where they may only ever be 75% of their former selves?


You will not be able to douse the admiration that so many fans, both here and abroad, have for the Mosses and Sheriffs for taking such good care of Zenyatta, keeping her sound and happy (she sparkles still and loves her job) , so that she can still race in her 6th year.

You can try though. ;)

You are foolish if you think that 8 or 9 races constitutes a grueling schedule...horses used to run in the Kentucky Derby, 1 week after running in the Derby Trial. Not trying to make this into a Rachel vs. Zenyatta thing but Rachel has run 16 times in her life, as 4YO, Zenyatta has run 16 times as a 6YO.

What's Zenyatta's excuse for that grueling 5 race campaign that Zenyatta put together last year against a bunch of tomato cans? I guess she didn't have to face Ginger Punch...

She's a damn race horse, not a lead pony...if you want to parade her and make a specticle of her, retire her, and parade her with all the bells and whistles. But if you are bringing her back to "prove how great she is," challenge the damn horse, run her against some real horses, don't lie about your schedule and wimp out. It's as simple as that.

[cj]

Giving any horse a grueling schedule that would be costly to their fitness and health, to the point where they may only ever be 75% of their former selves?


A bit of a stretch, but I don't think anyone is asking that anyway. They had the two tomato can races already. I don't know anyone that wants to see a third, a race with no competition that she has won twice already. The Foster, or even the Hollywood Gold Cup, would have been good for the sport and not that big a challenge for the horse most likely. Then, try a race at Belmont or Saratoga in mid to late July against fillies. Next, a BC prep, either at Belmont or even Keeneland (the Spinster), before the BC Classic.

[Robert Goren]

Is there any reason to believe that anybody will enter anything but tomato cans against her no matter where she runs?

[cj]

Is there any reason to believe that anybody will enter anything but tomato cans against her no matter where she runs?

I am sure if she ventures to dirt the competition will show.

[bisket]

lets revisit the fact that sherriffs inquired publicly after the apple blossom about who would be running in the foster BEFORE they shipped back to california. mum was the word from asmussen and jackson... now that the foster apears to be about the same quality as an overnight stakes against "top flight older horses" its a possibilty.... we'll be hearing a few months from now how much of a sportsman jackson is :lol: for running rachel in such difficult spots. its getting old. i think some posters on the board need to get over the fact that the fastest horse male or female in training is based in california. :p

[bisket]

I am sure if she ventures to dirt the competition will show.
maybe in your world that may be the case, but the people that actually own and train the horses don't act in this way. i know in the mathematical world they should run against her, but unfortunately they live in the real world.

[Headbanger]

lets revisit the fact that sherriffs inquired publicly after the apple blossom about who would be running in the foster BEFORE they shipped back to california. mum was the word from asmussen and jackson... now that the foster apears to be about the same quality as an overnight stakes against "top flight older horses" its a possibilty.... we'll be hearing a few months from now how much of a sportsman jackson is :lol: for running rachel in such difficult spots. its getting old. i think some posters on the board need to get over the fact that the fastest horse male or female in training is based in california. :p

Oh I don't know, have you ever heard of horse named Quality Road? Because he would seem to be the fastest horse in training.

[bisket]

Oh I don't know, have you ever heard of horse named Quality Road? Because he would seem to be the fastest horse in training.
says who? he's the fastest horse in training at gulfstream....

[Headbanger]

says who? he's the fastest horse in training at gulfstream....

Says the figures...in fact Zenyatta is pretty slow on dirt.

Only slow horses run 8 out of 9 races over 100 beyers, with 4 of those beyers being run in NY with 2 110 beyers in New York.

[Robert Goren]

I am sure if she ventures to dirt the competition will show. They didn't in Arkansas. What makes you think anyplace else would be different?

[cj]

They didn't in Arkansas. What makes you think anyplace else would be different?

It was early in the year and there weren't many to pick from at the time. I was speaking of males mostly, but even amongst females there are some likely to emerge.

[bisket]

whats the case? does zen need to get around? or do the bad guys know her and leave her alone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN7Xs9WVNBU
one things for sure. shireffs car has never been beat!!!!!!!!

[WinterTriangle]

tomato can races

We have schizophrenic discussions here sometime. People insist that the US has the best racehorses in the world-----yet when a horse crushes 34+ G-1, G-2, and G3 winners, as well as Eclipse Award Champions, Breeders’ Cup Distaff Champions .....they suddenly become tomato cans.

You can't have it both ways.....either we have the best, or our G-1 females and males, eclipse award champions, and BC champions, and many of our males, are tomato cans

Says the figures...in fact Zenyatta is pretty slow on dirt.


Those wedded to the speed figures cannot seem to grasp a horse like Zen, which is part of the problem. One who sets their sights on any horse in front of them and runs them down. *Fast* in that case doesn’t matter. Winning matters.

Otherwise, how often are you kicking yourself for winning on a horse who doesn't have good speed figures... kicking yourself for not betting the "loser" who could run faster?

[Hanover1]

Here we go yet again.....(yawn). Zen and company owe nothing to anyone, first off. It is a once in a lifetime chance to have a mare like her around the barn. I say enjoy the ride, and relax. Imo preserving a perfect record, and keeping her around the barn is far from relaxing, yet preserves the once in a lifetime chance, allowing it to continue, and not end. Connections goals need not be made public fodder, as it accomplishes nothing. It should seem clear to observers up to this point as to exactly what the goal is. Remain undefeated, stay fit, and prepare for a run at another BC. A race here and there until the big dance is all that is needed, along with the fitness factor, to make this happen. Where she enters is no big deal when the eye is on the prize. All the "yeah, but..." "what about" "she is ducking" "tomato can" rhetoric means ZERO, and proves nothing. There will be no asterik beside her name when the history books go to press. If all goes well, they will be printing an exceptional campaign that has yet to be duplicated. Don't worry about the trip, just get there........

[letswastemoney]

I'd like Zenyatta to lose. That would make my day :) :)

This forum would explode with Zenyatta fans making excuses when that happens.

[cj]

We have schizophrenic discussions here sometime. People insist that the US has the best racehorses in the world-----yet when a horse crushes 34+ G-1, G-2, and G3 winners, as well as Eclipse Award Champions, Breeders’ Cup Distaff Champions .....they suddenly become tomato cans.

You can't have it both ways.....either we have the best, or our G-1 females and males, eclipse award champions, and BC champions, and many of our males, are tomato cans



Those wedded to the speed figures cannot seem to grasp a horse like Zen, which is part of the problem. One who sets their sights on any horse in front of them and runs them down. *Fast* in that case doesn’t matter. Winning matters.

Otherwise, how often are you kicking yourself for winning on a horse who doesn't have good speed figures... kicking yourself for not betting the "loser" who could run faster?


Where have I ever said we have the best horses? I love when our horses race overseas and they are ridiculously overbet in the pools here. Our horses stink on turf. When is the last time we won a race of any consequence overseas?

On dirt, our horses are the best. On turf, we aren't even close. On synthetics, who knows? The US, and now Dubai, are the only ones dumb enough to hold top class races on it.

It takes racing a very conservative schedule to win as often as Zenyatta has and win two BC races, including a Classic, and not rank among the top 10 money winners of all time.

[Hanover1]

I'd like Zenyatta to lose. That would make my day :) :)

This forum would explode with Zenyatta fans making excuses when that happens.
I will help you out here....If/when she loses, it will be because she got outran. Wishing ill will on a great horse floats your boat? Dude.......I would explore other methods of gettling jollies.......karma is a bitch.

[Tom]

Zardana is a glorified allowance horse. Who cares what she does?

All she has done this year is beat tomato cans.

[Tom]

I'd like Zenyatta to lose. That would make my day :) :)

This forum would explode with Zenyatta fans making excuses when that happens.

You mean like the RA fans have had to do TWICE so far?
:lol:

[born2ride]

You mean like the RA fans have had to do TWICE so far?
:lol:

Those excuses pale in comparison to the ones the Z fans made when she lost HOY last year. And that loss was, to use your phrase, to a tomato can.

[letswastemoney]

I will help you out here....If/when she loses, it will be because she got outran. Wishing ill will on a great horse floats your boat? Dude.......I would explore other methods of gettling jollies.......karma is a bitch.
I've been ridiculed on many forums for not thinking so favorably of Zenyatta...

It would please me to see her lose after suffering through the arrogance of her fans that think she is invincible.

[Sericm]

You are foolish if you think that 8 or 9 races constitutes a grueling schedule...horses used to run in the Kentucky Derby, 1 week after running in the Derby Trial. Not trying to make this into a Rachel vs. Zenyatta thing but Rachel has run 16 times in her life, as 4YO, Zenyatta has run 16 times as a 6YO.

What's Zenyatta's excuse for that grueling 5 race campaign that Zenyatta put together last year against a bunch of tomato cans? I guess she didn't have to face Ginger Punch...

She's a damn race horse, not a lead pony...if you want to parade her and make a specticle of her, retire her, and parade her with all the bells and whistles. But if you are bringing her back to "prove how great she is," challenge the damn horse, run her against some real horses, don't lie about your schedule and wimp out. It's as simple as that.

Let's talk about a grueling campaign.
Let me see Ghostzapper wins 2 races with 4 entries. The Woodard against
Saint Liam, and the Breeders cup at Lone Star against 12 other horses.
He beat a total of 24 horses that year and is celebrated as HOY and HE REALLY HAD A GRUELING CAMPAIGN.

Like I said in the beginning all this Zenyatta bashing has been oh so BORING for the last 7 or 8 months and that goes for the RA bashers. GET OVER IT EVERYONE.

Sericm

[Nikki1997]

I've been ridiculed on many forums for not thinking so favorably of Zenyatta...

It would please me to see her lose after suffering through the arrogance of her fans that think she is invincible.

It is your right to dislike Zenyatta. But, it is also someone like you that provokes defense of the mare, which in turn, leads to the accusation of the one defending her as some ill informed, biased fan. I don't get why you post in threads about her. So, you dislike her. Big deal.

You want Z to lose? That's very sporting of you. If that's what would tickle your fancy, fine. I hope you bet against her and gripe and whine about her through the rest of her career. While she rubs your ignorant nose in it.

[andymays]

Will the Rachel/Zenyatta wars ever stop?

or

Is it that we just can't get along? If we can't get along then we just oughta call the whole thing off. ;)

YouTube - Ella Fitzgerald & Louis Armstrong - Let's Call The Whole Thing Off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4qY22rR9tQ&feature=related

Damn they're good. :ThmbUp: :)

[WinterTriangle]

Will the Rachel/Zenyatta wars ever stop?


Eh. Regional competitiveness and loyalties. It exists in all sports. Some won't admit to it.

I grew up in NY, so still think of myself as a new yawker. Most of my family still lives there. If I were going to move somewhere someday I would probably move back. But I've also lived in 14 other states, so I found out quickly that the world doesn't revolve around the state where I grew up, nor it's customs, food, institutions, destinations, regional consciousness, or anything else. (which I once believed it did). I'm sure there are people in CA or TX and any other state who need this reality check. ;)

I've had my share of NY Yankees versus Red Sox arguments back in the day. :)

Is it that we just can't get along?

Human nature is such that we tend to "like" people who think like we do. It is nice feeling to be agreed with.

My holiday thought: instead of complaining about how racehorses don't extend or challenge themselves to leave their comfort zone, we might all work on doing that in our own lives.....and showcase it here. ;)

I suspect the RA Zenyatta NY CA thing is a somewhat regional argument, and nobody is going to win, as there is nothing to be won. I'm sure Zen will be beat and it won't break my heart or anything. I just happen to like her a lot, but I like them all. Then you have the personalities, some people like jess jackson, some people like the mosses. It's just a matter of what group you would feel comfortable in?

Nobody is really *right* or *wrong* and that's why there will be no denoument.

[andymays]

Eh. Regional competitiveness and loyalties. It exists in all sports. Some won't admit to it.

I grew up in NY, so still think of myself as a new yawker. Most of my family still lives there. If I were going to move somewhere someday I would probably move back. But I've also lived in 14 other states, so I found out quickly that the world doesn't revolve around the state where I grew up, nor it's customs, food, institutions, destinations, regional consciousness, or anything else. (which I once believed it did). I'm sure there are people in CA or TX and any other state who need this reality check. ;)

I've had my share of NY Yankees versus Red Sox arguments back in the day. :)



Human nature is such that we tend to "like" people who think like we do. It is nice feeling to be agreed with.

My holiday thought: instead of complaining about how racehorses don't extend or challenge themselves to leave their comfort zone, we might all work on doing that in our own lives.....and showcase it here. ;)

I suspect the RA Zenyatta NY CA thing is a somewhat regional argument, and nobody is going to win, as there is nothing to be won. I'm sure Zen will be beat and it won't break my heart or anything. I just happen to like her a lot, but I like them all. Then you have the personalities, some people like jess jackson, some people like the mosses. It's just a matter of what group you would feel comfortable in?

Nobody is really *right* or *wrong* and that's why there will be no denoument.


Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, but what did you think of the song?

[bisket]

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, but what did you think of the song?
:ThmbUp: armstrong #1 in my book. i say damayder ;)

[bisket]

Says the figures...in fact Zenyatta is pretty slow on dirt.

Only slow horses run 8 out of 9 races over 100 beyers, with 4 of those beyers being run in NY with 2 110 beyers in New York.
i'll refer back to post #20 to answer this :bang:

[bisket]

Where have I ever said we have the best horses? I love when our horses race overseas and they are ridiculously overbet in the pools here. Our horses stink on turf. When is the last time we won a race of any consequence overseas?

On dirt, our horses are the best. On turf, we aren't even close. On synthetics, who knows? The US, and now Dubai, are the only ones dumb enough to hold top class races on it.

It takes racing a very conservative schedule to win as often as Zenyatta has and win two BC races, including a Classic, and not rank among the top 10 money winners of all time.
the deflation of purses hasn't contributed to this?

[cj]

the deflation of purses hasn't contributed to this?

If you are talking about Zenyatta not being in the top 10, deflation of purses is not a factor in my opinion. Which races has she won that have deflated purses?

[classhandicapper]

Where have I ever said we have the best horses? I love when our horses race overseas and they are ridiculously overbet in the pools here. Our horses stink on turf. When is the last time we won a race of any consequence overseas?

On dirt, our horses are the best. On turf, we aren't even close. On synthetics, who knows? The US, and now Dubai, are the only ones dumb enough to hold top class races on it.



Considering our very best synthetic races tend to be made up high level turf horses that handled the surface well (including Europeans) and high level dirt horses whose form transferred well, I think we can be fairly certain our best synthetic horses are quite good. Despite occasional flops because of a dislike for dirt, they certainly seem to more than hold their own when they ship east for the Triple Crown preps and other major stakes.

I am hoping Rail Trip ventures east to take on Quality Road, but I don't expect it. I'm sure they are thinking Breeder's Cup with him and aren't looking to kill him.

[classhandicapper]

I don't know what the intermediate plans for either horse are, but I doubt they have the Breeder's Cup penciled in as a major goal for Zardana at this stage. My guess is that the goal is to avoid Zenyatta, stay on dirt (because she seems to prefer it), and try to get her on top of her game again. So they are going to have to ship.

My guess is that the plan for Zenyatta is to space her races and avoid peaking until the end of the year. So I doubt they will take on colts until the Breeder's Cup because they aren't going to beat top colts with getting her to her peak now. They will probably look for one more filly field on dirt somewhere. I'm hoping they come to Belmont because I'd love to see her make her on that big sweeping turn.

[classhandicapper]

I don't know what the intermediate plans for either horse are, but I doubt they have the Breeder's Cup penciled in as a major goal for Zardana at this stage. My guess is that the goal is to avoid Zenyatta, stay on dirt (because she seems to prefer it), and try to get her on top of her game again. So they are going to have to ship.

My guess is that the plan for Zenyatta is to space her races and avoid peaking until the end of the year. So I doubt they will take on colts until the Breeder's Cup because they aren't going to beat top colts with getting her to her peak now. They will probably look for one more filly field on dirt somewhere. I'm hoping they come to Belmont because I'd love to see her make her on that big sweeping turn.

"without" getting her to her peak now.

I'm hoping they come to Belmont because I'd love to see her make her "run" on that big sweeping turn

OK, I can get back to my beer now. :bang: