Advice on horse ownership

[kid4rilla]

Some friends and coworkers of mine have been kicking around the idea of getting some capital together and trying to buy a racehorse.

I will more than certainly be the one heading up the endeavor, so I am going to start looking into different ways to be a part of the game from an ownership group standpoint.

I feel like the relationship with the trainer would be paramount, especially for our group which has zero backside acumen.

Any advice that could be offered concerning the following would be appreciated....

1) What is the best way to begin an education to get the knowledge I would need to be comfortable wading into these waters?

2) Do you have any trainers/ownership groups that you consider trustworthy, that would work with us to try and build a long-term relationship?

3) What are the common "unseen" costs, that neophytes may be surprised about?

We'd love to hear from some honest folks that wouldn't mind sharing experiences and potentially working with us.



Thanks for any info!

k4

[Robert Goren]

In the words of Nancy Reagan "Just say no!"

[lamboguy]

In the words of Nancy Reagan "Just say no!"
i agree with that post, and i am in the business of selling champions.

[Black Ruby]

Just send me the money, save yourself the grief, stem the bleeding!

[Storm Cadet]

First thought: DO NOT associate yourself with any partnership groups. Do it yourself!

They are in business to spend OTHER PEOPLES money. Most groups, although many are run by nice people, are there to make a profit for THEMSELVES pure and simple. How might you ask>

:1: They jack up the price at the sales in the published sale price, many times purchasing the 2yo at a much lower price. OR telling you what they paid for it but in actuality paid less to the cosigner. either way, you are usually overpaying. They then sell percentage shares to pay off their purchase. (A group I was with years ago stated they paid $220,000 for a colt, who were found out later to only have paid $150,000...so they started off with a 70 grand profit)

:2: They usually jack up the day rate of what they pay to trainers versus what they charge the partners. You will be amazed with that look on the trainers face when they find out what the partnership charges the owners for their services. And then they realize they too are getting scammed also.

:3: Not only do they take a monthly management fee for taking care of business, but they also take out a percentage of any profits from race wiinings (like they are part of ownership) and they many times take a part of any profit of a claim on the horse.

:4: Add up all the travel expense of them going to the track to watch YOUR horse, eating in the Turf club, their DRF and Thorograph memberships, their house rental at Saratoga, the Fedex bills to print out their sheets for the day, their spending of more money on prospective clients, air flights to the horse sales...I could go on and on on how they spend YOUR money on themselves!!! and all in ADDITION to their monthly management fees.

Get some friends together who you can trust...understand the expenses of horse ownership...read Lightening in a Jar by Cot Cambell. Then think long and hard about wanting to become an owner!

[Cardus]

Some friends and coworkers of mine have been kicking around the idea of getting some capital together and trying to buy a racehorse.

I will more than certainly be the one heading up the endeavor, so I am going to start looking into different ways to be a part of the game from an ownership group standpoint.

I feel like the relationship with the trainer would be paramount, especially for our group which has zero backside acumen.

Any advice that could be offered concerning the following would be appreciated....

1) What is the best way to begin an education to get the knowledge I would need to be comfortable wading into these waters?

2) Do you have any trainers/ownership groups that you consider trustworthy, that would work with us to try and build a long-term relationship?

3) What are the common "unseen" costs, that neophytes may be surprised about?

We'd love to hear from some honest folks that wouldn't mind sharing experiences and potentially working with us.



Thanks for any info!

k4

Having backside tacumen is important.

Why would people in an Internet Land horse racing chat room discourage people from wanting to join the ownership ranks? I don't get that.

[JBmadera]

I've owned a number of Q-horses. IMHO the most important consideration is finding a trainer you are comfortable with. Horses, at least mine(!), ended up getting minor injuries all the time so the most unexpected cost was vet bills.

bottom line, my wife and i loved owning horses but in the end it just got too expensive.

good luck!

jb

[tbwinner]

First thought: DO NOT associate yourself with any partnership groups. Do it yourself!

They are in business to spend OTHER PEOPLES money. Most groups, although many are run by nice people, are there to make a profit for THEMSELVES pure and simple. How might you ask>

:1: They jack up the price at the sales in the published sale price, many times purchasing the 2yo at a much lower price. OR telling you what they paid for it but in actuality paid less to the cosigner. either way, you are usually overpaying. They then sell percentage shares to pay off their purchase. (A group I was with years ago stated they paid $220,000 for a colt, who were found out later to only have paid $150,000...so they started off with a 70 grand profit)

:2: They usually jack up the day rate of what they pay to trainers versus what they charge the partners. You will be amazed with that look on the trainers face when they find out what the partnership charges the owners for their services. And then they realize they too are getting scammed also.

:3: Not only do they take a monthly management fee for taking care of business, but they also take out a percentage of any profits from race wiinings (like they are part of ownership) and they many times take a part of any profit of a claim on the horse.

:4: Add up all the travel expense of them going to the track to watch YOUR horse, eating in the Turf club, their DRF and Thorograph memberships, their house rental at Saratoga, the Fedex bills to print out their sheets for the day, their spending of more money on prospective clients, air flights to the horse sales...I could go on and on on how they spend YOUR money on themselves!!! and all in ADDITION to their monthly management fees.

Get some friends together who you can trust...understand the expenses of horse ownership...read Lightening in a Jar by Cot Cambell. Then think long and hard about wanting to become an owner!

OK, this is a little ridiculously overstated but does play true to some effect. I have been involved with numerous racing partnerships and owning on my own, some I have had no trouble with and others play exactly how you state.
As with #1, yes this is primarily how the managers make money, marking up the price of the horse. There really is nothing you can do with this part other than the manager showing you the price he paid (on an official invoice/bill) for the horse (doubtful this will happen).

#2-No partnership I have been with has done this. In each I have requested actual bills from the trainer (by way of the manager) or have talked with the trainer myself and verified such. I'm sure there are a few that do this.

#3-Differs from partnership to partnership. Some take a %-cut of purses + monthly management fee, others just a %-cut. %s can differ wildly though and are often on a sliding scale.

#4-I have not seen these items billed on monthly expenses. One partnership (which I left) did charge a fee for sending copies of the racing form to members (which obviously they bought one copy and emailed to 50+ partners across several horses).

I like both options (that is why I am involved in both), they differ to how involved you and your team want to get in the game and how much capital you're starting out with. Being a sole owner as a group means you get to call the shots, partnerships generally leave it up to the managing partner.

You say you're building up capital together, about how much? Starting with $30,000 may get you a decent claimer and enough reserves to take you through 2-3 months to race.

[DJofSD]

A boat is some times defined as a hole in the water into which you pour money. A horse is a boat on land.

As long as you are not expecting to become rich from the activity, give it a try. Get the best estimates you can about your initials costs, the regular bills, fees, expenses, etc., then double it. If your still interested, go for it. Just make sure whatever you do with your potential partners, you have a written agreement and everything is written down.

[kid4rilla]

Geez how predictible were these responses.

I'm a newbie to ownership, I wasn't born last night.

Obviously, there are many suckers and chuckers who do this and derive some sort of personal utility from it as I understand it.

And since I am prepared to take the proverbial and inevitable bath, is there anyone with advice that might help me navigate this minefield without magnetic shoes?

[kid4rilla]

First thought: DO NOT associate yourself with any partnership groups. Do it yourself!

They are in business to spend OTHER PEOPLES money. Most groups, although many are run by nice people, are there to make a profit for THEMSELVES pure and simple. How might you ask>

:1: They jack up the price at the sales in the published sale price, many times purchasing the 2yo at a much lower price. OR telling you what they paid for it but in actuality paid less to the cosigner. either way, you are usually overpaying. They then sell percentage shares to pay off their purchase. (A group I was with years ago stated they paid $220,000 for a colt, who were found out later to only have paid $150,000...so they started off with a 70 grand profit)

:2: They usually jack up the day rate of what they pay to trainers versus what they charge the partners. You will be amazed with that look on the trainers face when they find out what the partnership charges the owners for their services. And then they realize they too are getting scammed also.

:3: Not only do they take a monthly management fee for taking care of business, but they also take out a percentage of any profits from race wiinings (like they are part of ownership) and they many times take a part of any profit of a claim on the horse.

:4: Add up all the travel expense of them going to the track to watch YOUR horse, eating in the Turf club, their DRF and Thorograph memberships, their house rental at Saratoga, the Fedex bills to print out their sheets for the day, their spending of more money on prospective clients, air flights to the horse sales...I could go on and on on how they spend YOUR money on themselves!!! and all in ADDITION to their monthly management fees.

Get some friends together who you can trust...understand the expenses of horse ownership...read Lightening in a Jar by Cot Cambell. Then think long and hard about wanting to become an owner!

Thanks Storm Cadet for the careful response! I will get the book!

[Brogan]

Depending on what your investment capital will be, you might also consider getting two lower priced horses. Anyone that has lived (and died) with only one horse knows what you go thru...one little (or not so little) bump in the road and you're on the shelf for a month or more.

Definitely DO NOT commit all your funds toward the purchase price, you will need money to operate.

Some of the costs above and beyond the day rate of your trainer are vet bills (can be staggering), shoeing ($150 every 4 weeks for a routine job) and shipping (will vary by frequency and distance).

Don't forget everyone involved has to be licensed by your state racing commission (plan on $50 each per year). Since none of you probably have a license already, count on another $80 or so each for fingerprinting. The group will need to register a stable or partnership name (another $50...mercifully not each). I'm assuming you will acquire a horse or horses ready for near ready to run. If you get in via claim, some states also collect sales tax.

You'll also need jockey silks.

Probably the most important thing is to find a trainer that you're comfortable with, and one that will communicate openly with you. You should probably also designate a point man for your group...you'll make any trainer crazy if he has to deal with multiple owners for one horse.

[kid4rilla]

OK, this is a little ridiculously overstated but does play true to some effect. I have been involved with numerous racing partnerships and owning on my own, some I have had no trouble with and others play exactly how you state.
As with #1, yes this is primarily how the managers make money, marking up the price of the horse. There really is nothing you can do with this part other than the manager showing you the price he paid (on an official invoice/bill) for the horse (doubtful this will happen).

#2-No partnership I have been with has done this. In each I have requested actual bills from the trainer (by way of the manager) or have talked with the trainer myself and verified such. I'm sure there are a few that do this.

#3-Differs from partnership to partnership. Some take a %-cut of purses + monthly management fee, others just a %-cut. %s can differ wildly though and are often on a sliding scale.

#4-I have not seen these items billed on monthly expenses. One partnership (which I left) did charge a fee for sending copies of the racing form to members (which obviously they bought one copy and emailed to 50+ partners across several horses).

I like both options (that is why I am involved in both), they differ to how involved you and your team want to get in the game and how much capital you're starting out with. Being a sole owner as a group means you get to call the shots, partnerships generally leave it up to the managing partner.

You say you're building up capital together, about how much? Starting with $30,000 may get you a decent claimer and enough reserves to take you through 2-3 months to race.

We've been thinking 30K at a minimum to get started. Our group has no experience here, so it will be while before we put chips in play.

Although it is well documented the losses that occur, what does a successful claim look like? The best case scenario? These are the things that might be obvious to many, but not to the many just off the periphery that might be interested.

Would it be too much to ask for me to send you a PM to discuss what can be expected?

[DJofSD]

Geez how predictible were these responses.

I'm a newbie to ownership, I wasn't born last night.

Obviously, there are many suckers and chuckers who do this and derive some sort of personal utility from it as I understand it.

And since I am prepared to take the proverbial and inevitable bath, is there anyone with advice that might help me navigate this minefield without magnetic shoes?
Gee whiz, you ask for some input then you almost bite the hand that feeds you.

Perhaps some questions should have been asked of you before offering any advice, such as, have you ever owned a horse of any type? Given the questions you posted and the lack of any further explanation or qualification, I assumed very little or no practical experience dealing with horses let alone trainers, racing and the stuff the goes on at the backside.

Best of luck.

[kid4rilla]

Depending on what your investment capital will be, you might also consider getting two lower priced horses. Anyone that has lived (and died) with only one horse knows what you go thru...one little (or not so little) bump in the road and you're on the shelf for a month or more.

Definitely DO NOT commit all your funds toward the purchase price, you will need money to operate.

Some of the costs above and beyond the day rate of your trainer are vet bills (can be staggering), shoeing ($150 every 4 weeks for a routine job) and shipping (will vary by frequency and distance).

Don't forget everyone involved has to be licensed by your state racing commission (plan on $50 each per year). Since none of you probably have a license already, count on another $80 or so each for fingerprinting. The group will need to register a stable or partnership name (another $50...mercifully not each). I'm assuming you will acquire a horse or horses ready for near ready to run. If you get in via claim, some states also collect sales tax.

You'll also need jockey silks.

Probably the most important thing is to find a trainer that you're comfortable with, and one that will communicate openly with you. You should probably also designate a point man for your group...you'll make any trainer crazy if he has to deal with multiple owners for one horse.

Great idea with potentially 2 smaller priced horses. And had no idea about the sales tax (seems ridiculous).

I need a trainer that will try to nurture a new ownership group. Any advice on who in the KY area?

[kid4rilla]

Gee whiz, you ask for some input then you almost bite the hand that feeds you.

Perhaps some questions should have been asked of you before offering any advice, such as, have you ever owned a horse of any type? Given the questions you posted and the lack of any further explanation or qualification, I assumed very little or no practical experience dealing with horses let alone trainers, racing and the stuff the goes on at the backside.

Best of luck.

That response was not meant for you. I appreciate your advice very much and will certainly get things on paper.

I have owned NO horse before, so any advice no matter how basic is probably new to me, and appreciated.

[Deepsix]

Do your homework by searching the internet. There are 1000's of useful topics that discuss horse ownership, and partnerships, and get into every aspect/detail. Meaning no offense but you seem ill prepared at this time and you need to educate yourself quite a bit. If some good natured person here volunteers their time to educate you then you are very fortunate.

Good luck

[kenwoodall2]

GREYHOUND RACING EXPENSES
Price of Greyhound Puppy $500 to $40,000
NGA fees - Registration $30
Boarding $80 to $120 per month until pup is 17 months old (track-ready)
State Racing License $25 to $75


GREYHOUND RACING INCOME
Grade A Purse large track $300 to $4000
Grade A Purse medium track $100 to $300
Owners Commission of Purse 35%

GET INVOLVED
If you are interested in knowing more about greyhound ownership, please do not hesitate to contact us at admin@gra-america.org.

We would be happy to assist you with information and contact details for:
You can be racing soon if you make the first step to involve yourself in this exciting sport!

•Greyhound Breeders
•Racing Kennels at Tracks
•Greyhound Racetracks
•State Racing Commissions & Licensing Departments
•National Greyhound Association
•References
_______________________
Other possibilities are Quarterhorses, or TBreds from small meets, like claiming from Arapahoe Park.

[DJofSD]

kenwoodall2, I heard that racing was going to the dogs but you just confirmed it.

[Deepsix]

This article, although not intended for an entry level owner at Podunk Downs, gives some interesting cost breakdowns.

http://businessofracing.blogspot.com/search?q=ownership+costs

[kid4rilla]

This article, although not intended for an entry level owner at Podunk Downs, gives some interesting cost breakdowns.

http://businessofracing.blogspot.com/search?q=ownership+costs

Thanks Deepsix. I will consider myself fortunate for some mentoring if received.

Wouldn't some trainers find it valuable to develop a long-term trusting relationship with up and coming owners, even if on the lower levels?

Thanks for the link!

[onefast99]

We've been thinking 30K at a minimum to get started. Our group has no experience here, so it will be while before we put chips in play.

Although it is well documented the losses that occur, what does a successful claim look like? The best case scenario? These are the things that might be obvious to many, but not to the many just off the periphery that might be interested.

Would it be too much to ask for me to send you a PM to discuss what can be expected?
If you would like some advice pm me on claiming, we have been successful at it for the past 8+ years. There are just 3 little guidelines to go by, first and foremost the horse you are claiming or buying isn't a house pet so don't get attached. The trainer you select should have a decent track record as far as ethics is concerned. And last but not least, enjoy the experience there is nothing else like it especially when your horse crosses the finish line first!

[sonnyp]

consider claiming a standardbred to race in ny, nj, penn area. you claim it today, you're in a race next week. many new tracks, great opportunity to race every week for good purses bolstered by slots, sounder breed (fewer vet bills), lower %'s to driver/trainer 5% rather than 10% to jockey/trainer, you can participate a lot more (go jog the horse yourself), much more hands on.

i can give you names of people at the meadowlands. pm me.

[Stillriledup]

Here are a few do's and donts.

1) Before you purchase one horse or contact one trainer, you need to come up with a business plan on what type of owner you want to be. I would recommend, in the beginning, to stay away from unraced stock and start with a hard hitting claiming horse. The unraced stock thing is for the super rich who have money to burn trying to chase the dream of developing their own yearling. Lots of horses never make it to the races, so if you go to a sale and buy a yearling, there's a decent enough chance you'll never make it to the races.

2) The most important thing, and i can't emphasize this enough is to NOT just blindly listen to your trainer. One of your partners needs to be a racing expert and a person who is calling every shot. If you are going to contact a trainer and tell him "we have x amount of money to spend, claim us a horse and make us money" you're going to lose your money a lot quicker than you will if you did things on your own. Pick out your own horse also when you claim. Let the trainer TRAIN and the owner should manage. If you know absolutely nothing about racing, learn the game as well as you can.

3) A few people on this thread have mentioned your relationship with a trainer. This is obviously going to be tough for you for the simple fact that trainers who win consistently have tons of horses and don't really need your horse or your business, so you'll just be a number in a assembly line. If you pick a low percentage trainer, you're going to have to beat 'super trainers' to win money. I think that you don't want to pick the trainer who's the 'flavor of the month'. You want a young guy with some talent who's recently gone out on his own....that's the way you can assure you have a shot to get into a barn of a trainer with some talent who doesnt have too many horses yet.

4) The biggest problem with partners is that everyone wants a 'say' in things. You have people who don't know one end of a horse from another and yet they want to give 'input'. In order to have an exciting ownership experience, it would be better off for one person to manage the horse with zero input from others. Before you invest, its all good and everyone is saying "sure, it will be no problem, we're all on the same page" but once those bills start coming in and purse money is NOT coming in, people get tense and start getting anxious and this is where arguments start about how a horse should be managed. I personally know at least 2 people who are racing experts who were heads of partnerships and both those ended badly in at least one horse because one of the owners (know nothing blowhards) wanted their say and wanted it their way.

5) Firing your trainer. Here's one that people need to think about before they hire someone. You need to hire a guy who's on the same page as you and let him train the horse. Its important to know that you're not always going to win. You're going to have horses who just can't run and the biggest urge you and your group is going to have is to fire the trainer when things arent going well. I would suggest to find a trainer and just stick with him. If your horses arent running well, its YOUR HORSE that's the problem and not the trainer. You don't need a new trainer, you need faster horses. Too many people fire trainers when their horses are running slowly and they don't realize that its their horses who are the problem, not the trainer. Its really cool to establish a relationship with a trainer and keep that relationship as opppsed to hiring and firing after each loss. There are times and places to fire trainers, but firing because your horses are running slowly is not the answer.

6) Temptation to win the Ky Derby. Its very expensive to 'chase the dream'. I wouldnt recommend doing this in the beginning.

7) If i was going into this endeavor, i'd pick out a trainer who has very few horses and try and contact him and establish a relationship. You want a trainer who knows you you are when you call and will actually answer the phone. If you have one horse, i wouldnt get in the habit of calling 3 times a day, don't be 'that guy'. If you have 10 horses with the guy than you could call him as much as you want, but with one 15k claimer, you need to not bug the guy for every little detail. Your trainer will call you if something is wrong.

8) Ask your trainer about vet bills. some trainers have the vet at the barn almost every day and they'll love to spend your money on stuff that you don't need. You need a trainer who's PHILOSOPHY is to save his owners money if its at all possible. Some trainers just call in the vet more than others, you don't want those guys, have a vet bills discussion with your trainer right off the bat.

[Storm Cadet]

OK, this is a little ridiculously overstated but does play true to some effect. I have been involved with numerous racing partnerships and owning on my own, some I have had no trouble with and others play exactly how you state.
As with #1, yes this is primarily how the managers make money, marking up the price of the horse. There really is nothing you can do with this part other than the manager showing you the price he paid (on an official invoice/bill) for the horse (doubtful this will happen).

#2-No partnership I have been with has done this. In each I have requested actual bills from the trainer (by way of the manager) or have talked with the trainer myself and verified such. I'm sure there are a few that do this.

#4-I have not seen these items billed on monthly expenses. One partnership (which I left) did charge a fee for sending copies of the racing form to members (which obviously they bought one copy and emailed to 50+ partners across several horses).

You say you're building up capital together, about how much? Starting with $30,000 may get you a decent claimer and enough reserves to take you through 2-3 months to race.

I was involved with racing for 6 years owning 12 horses during that span. Of those 12, I made a profit on 10. That is obviously way over the average of most owners/investors losing at over a 90% clip. I was very lucky. I had two Grade 1 stakes placed horses who won their first out races at SAR as well as the horse with the most wins in the USA for a calendar year while racing in the NYRA circuit in Grade 3 and high opt/allow claiming $75 grand and up levels. I also was part of an excellent filly who won 6 times in a two year period racing on the same Grade 3 and opt claiming tag of $75 grand and up. I did my homework each and every time PRIOR to my share purchase, many times conferring with more seasoned owners and bloodstock professionals.

First off sir, those examples of prices were not ridiculously overstated. My first 2 yo colt was purchased for $60,000 and was resold to partners at $120,000. The second was priced the same way. I came to find out the supposed actual price by going back to the sale on the internet a year later and looking up the sales roster. Colt # 2 was resold after he took 3rd in a Grade 1 2 yo race at Belmont to a very famous outfit in KY. He was sold for 750,000. You want to know what the owners take was of this sale? About 50%!!! Everybody had their hands out. From the breeder getting a %, to the trainer getting a %, to the management team getting a %, the sales broker who negotiated the deal got a %. Another time after about 1 year of a particular horse partnership, it was disclosed that the management team OVERSOLD the shares of the partnership and had to make financial arrangements to get the owners shares back down to 100%. You can't make this stuff up believe me!

As to the comments in :4: , we the owners found out after the fact the management team was charging for his home phone, home TVG and cable bill, DRF yearly unlimited as well as Thorograph unlimited, Saratoga apt rental, transportation to and from Saratoga from his home base, (all under the guise as to managing our horses) as well as inflated vet bills and trainer day rate fees. When the management team took out POTENTIAL clients out at Belmont and Saratoga, where did the funds come from? Our pockets which we owners stated to them that they cannot co-mingle horse partnership assets. After this disclosure is when I left the business. The business is tough enough without somebody trying to reduce your owners takeout of profit with questionable expenses.

I do agree with you, start small, stay private, start with a claimer, expect to lose all of your investment and have fun with it as there is no better experience thatn to root your horse home and then running yourself to the winners circle and hanging that photo on your wall!

[tbwinner]

I was involved with racing for 6 years owning 12 horses during that span. Of those 12, I made a profit on 10. That is obviously way over the average of most owners/investors losing at over a 90% clip. I was very lucky. I had two Grade 1 stakes placed horses who won their first out races at SAR as well as the horse with the most wins in the USA for a calendar year while racing in the NYRA circuit in Grade 3 and high opt/allow claiming $75 grand and up levels. I also was part of an excellent filly who won 6 times in a two year period racing on the same Grade 3 and opt claiming tag of $75 grand and up. I did my homework each and every time PRIOR to my share purchase, many times conferring with more seasoned owners and bloodstock professionals.

First off sir, those examples of prices were not ridiculously overstated. My first 2 yo colt was purchased for $60,000 and was resold to partners at $120,000. The second was priced the same way. I came to find out the supposed actual price by going back to the sale on the internet a year later and looking up the sales roster. Colt # 2 was resold after he took 3rd in a Grade 1 2 yo race at Belmont to a very famous outfit in KY. He was sold for 750,000. You want to know what the owners take was of this sale? About 50%!!! Everybody had their hands out. From the breeder getting a %, to the trainer getting a %, to the management team getting a %, the sales broker who negotiated the deal got a %. Another time after about 1 year of a particular horse partnership, it was disclosed that the management team OVERSOLD the shares of the partnership and had to make financial arrangements to get the owners shares back down to 100%. You can't make this stuff up believe me!

As to the comments in :4: , we the owners found out after the fact the management team was charging for his home phone, home TVG and cable bill, DRF yearly unlimited as well as Thorograph unlimited, Saratoga apt rental, transportation to and from Saratoga from his home base, (all under the guise as to managing our horses) as well as inflated vet bills and trainer day rate fees. When the management team took out POTENTIAL clients out at Belmont and Saratoga, where did the funds come from? Our pockets which we owners stated to them that they cannot co-mingle horse partnership assets. After this disclosure is when I left the business. The business is tough enough without somebody trying to reduce your owners takeout of profit with questionable expenses.

I do agree with you, start small, stay private, start with a claimer, expect to lose all of your investment and have fun with it as there is no better experience thatn to root your horse home and then running yourself to the winners circle and hanging that photo on your wall!

Wow, I have not dealt with East Coast partnerships but if that is the norm over there (house rental, cable bill, etc.) I AM STAYING AWAY! You did very well, obviously a lot better than the average. Nice work getting out early I guess!

We've been through at least 20 claims, 5 horses from auction/private, and 10 involved in partnerships outside of myself being manager. Best I have been able to do was raise a $10k claimer to $50k, and win a GIII (in a partnership unfortunately). Not enough to make a living off this, but still profitable along with the factor no one can beat, the fun and enjoyment of seeing your horse come in first and being in the winner's circle!

[GlenninOhio]

Here are a few do's and donts.


2) The most important thing, and i can't emphasize this enough is to NOT just blindly listen to your trainer. One of your partners needs to be a racing expert and a person who is calling every shot. If you are going to contact a trainer and tell him "we have x amount of money to spend, claim us a horse and make us money" you're going to lose your money a lot quicker than you will if you did things on your own. Pick out your own horse also when you claim. Let the trainer TRAIN and the owner should manage. If you know absolutely nothing about racing, learn the game as well as you can.



This is HUGE in my opinion.

I've had two quality horses over the years (stakes winners) and I feel each of their careers were compromised by my basic relationship with my trainer, which is to defer to him in race selection situations.

It's your horse and you are the one who is going to live with the consequences of these decisions so in the end you should be making them. Or, at the very least, be sure there are times that you say "No" if it doesn't feel right to you, and stick to your guns. Words I wish I had lived by.

[Stillriledup]

This is HUGE in my opinion.

I've had two quality horses over the years (stakes winners) and I feel each of their careers were compromised by my basic relationship with my trainer, which is to defer to him in race selection situations.

It's your horse and you are the one who is going to live with the consequences of these decisions so in the end you should be making them. Or, at the very least, be sure there are times that you say "No" if it doesn't feel right to you, and stick to your guns. Words I wish I had lived by.

The mistake many new owners make is that they assume their trainer is a racing expert. Trainers are not racing experts, their specialty is the care and upkeep of a horse. They also have their own agenda to spot horses where they can win. If you have a strong 20k claimer, your trainer is going to try and convince you to run him for 10 because its in his own best interest to run for 10. He doesn't care if you lose a 20k horse (via claim) for 10 because its not his money. He gets his 'cut' of the purse and a win on his stats and you lose 10k because you sold something worth 20k for 10.

It comes down to this. You, as the owner, need to know the exact value of your 'portfolio' and not trust anyone else to make those decisions for you. But, some will say, "he's the trainer, he's supposed to know". No, he's not supposed to know. He might know, but its not part of his job requirement to be an expert at managing your horses....his job is to just make sure that when your horse wakes up in the morning, he's happy and healthy.

[jonnielu]

Great idea with potentially 2 smaller priced horses. And had no idea about the sales tax (seems ridiculous).

I need a trainer that will try to nurture a new ownership group. Any advice on who in the KY area?

Give Joe Riddell a holler for straight info on Kentucky Racing:

http://www.lexingtonkyrealestateforsale.com/about-riddell-realty.html

jdl

[magwell]

If you are putting up 30 k find a trainer that wins at least 12% of his starts then make sure he is your kind of guy.... have him go for half of 2 25k hard knocking claiming horses cut all expenses down the middle and have some fun, if he wants to drop them in price he has his own money in the game that's the best advice your going to get. btw Monmouth is the place to start this deal as soon as you can.....:cool:

[Si2see]

I will give you advice. Find a trainer like our very own Tom Schell ( or talk to him yourself )
I have, like these other people here been with two different partnerships to get my feet wet for about a year and a half.... Then I set out to be on my own ( with one of my best friends splitting horses together ) Four years later we are still happy to have every horse we own, and will own with Tom.

[The Judge]

You get a owners license, so you get in free, if there is a owners section you get to sit there. This cost money too its not just the cost of the horse.

The money from the group will be placed into an account with the track and you can give the trainer permission to use the money to claim your horse or you can tell the trainer what horse your group wants to claim.

You get a statement each month from the trainer.

Ask alot of questions, get a good trainer. Lets face it unless your group has a serious money you will be claiming a horse whose best days are behind it. So you want a horse that can run on a regular basis and earn a pay check. They pay to 5th place ,but check your track. Ask the trainer to show some bills on how much a typical claimer costs per mont.

At some point you will be selling this horse for a lot less then you paid for it. Some of these cheap claimers (mares) actually have some breeding potential so you can at least get rid of the horse and split a few hundred dollars.

Hidden cost is if he/she gets hurt and can't run. Most trainers have a plan to sale the horse for other purposes.

As long as its for fun and you are willing to lose a couple of thousand bucks whats the harm. You could very well break even or make a few hundred or even a few thousand, with luck.

[tbwinner]

As you mentioned $30k, that is a good number to start with a claimer.
$16k-$20k claimer + $10k in reserves (covers 3mo training)

Now if you get that # to $40k-$50k, you could look for (and find) 2 nice claimers, one for $20, one for $10k (or 2 @ $16k~), and have $10k expenses each.

Definitely the tracks to be claiming from this season are Monmouth, and some at Arlington too, especially in Canini's barn (with Calabrese loading up the beginning of the meet with great "discounted" claimers).

[onefast99]

As you mentioned $30k, that is a good number to start with a claimer.
$16k-$20k claimer + $10k in reserves (covers 3mo training)

Now if you get that # to $40k-$50k, you could look for (and find) 2 nice claimers, one for $20, one for $10k (or 2 @ $16k~), and have $10k expenses each.

Definitely the tracks to be claiming from this season are Monmouth, and some at Arlington too, especially in Canini's barn (with Calabrese loading up the beginning of the meet with great "discounted" claimers).
He should start out at his hometown track where he can watch his horse train in the morning and really get to feel the experience of horse ownership from the backside to the gate.

[LRL Racing]

Number One is the trainer. You need someone you can trust. Having been in the business for nine years now I can only say that the only trainer I trust is the one I started with who scared me to death when he announced his retirement. I thought I was going to have to quit the business which I love.
Number Two is the horse. My plan was to buy yearlings and only fillies, develop them and sell them as broodmares after their racing campaign. Have found incredible success so not going to change much. Would be overly cautious on claim and would stay in the 50,000 range and only after watching the horse race, work. The only other ownership angle I would consider is buying a good one. Find a horse who just broke their maiden impressively and buy it! You know then after your due diligence that you got a horse that can run. Obviously, there are many unfortunate events in the business but you got to have a good horse!!!

[WinterTriangle]

you will need money to operate.

While it sounds so-o-o-o elementary, thousands of businesses go belly up every year in the US precisely because they did not have operating costs set aside to get them thru their first few years and/or unforseen expenses.

So, it certainly bears repeating. :ThmbUp:

[onefast99]

I will give you advice. Find a trainer like our very own Tom Schell ( or talk to him yourself )
I have, like these other people here been with two different partnerships to get my feet wet for about a year and a half.... Then I set out to be on my own ( with one of my best friends splitting horses together ) Four years later we are still happy to have every horse we own, and will own with Tom.
Tom is a great person to know if he wants to be at Calder and GP.

[kid4rilla]

I can't tell you how valuable all of this information has been to me.

Everything will be taken to heart on my long road to exploration...and I mean everything!

Thanks to all who have taken the care and time to help out!