Why Monmouth will destroy N.Y. Racing in long run.

[Igeteven]

Why Monmouth will destroy N.Y. Racing in long run.

Money, that is the main issue, out there, they have Atlantic City to support horse racing A Governor who supports horse racing, what does N.Y. have, IMO, they have nothing, IMO, they have a bunch of morons running the whole show that could care less about the sport it self.

I am asking anyone from the East Coast to explain why is N.Y. so screwed up, out here in California, I can list so many reasons why racing in California is in the garbage can.

As to Deepsix, who believes everything is wonderful, please do your research before you post.


So East Coast people, go for it.

[PaceAdvantage]

NY Racing isn't all that screwed up. Once you get past the money issue...lol

The racing product is in high demand, and we don't have to cancel cards due to lack of entries.

[Deepsix]

Problems? What problems? After weeks of fret and worry over the NY crisis they got the monies to continue operations. Today, Oak Tree will meet with MID and they'll have a contract to conduct OSA. Another crisis averted. See Lester, in spite of you being a daily worry wart we just continue to muddle through it all. This is a slow death by a 1000 cuts. Everything is beautiful... Ha! You just need to have a more possitive attitude, Lester. lol

Looking forward to your CHRB presentation in October.

[lamboguy]

monmouth is not going to destroy new york racing. but what is interesting is if you date back to after world war 2 the reasons why monmouth came to be in the first place is interesting. phil isilin started monmouth because they gave him and a few of his friends a hard time to get stalls in saratoga for the summer. at that time saratoga was stricktly for the very elite. it really didn't change that much until the early 70's when everyone decided that saratoga was the august place to be and everyone started taking trips to go there. now with the high price of hotels and and gasoline, less people are traveling to saratoga and other race tracks throughout the country. the racing game is trying to focus on the fact that more and more people bet from their homes and that trend won't change in the immediate future. with this monmouth meet and the 13 races, that is what they are trying to do. so big changes are nothing new in the history of monmouth park.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Why Monmouth will destroy N.Y. Racing in long run.

Money, that is the main issue, out there, they have Atlantic City to support horse racing A Governor who supports horse racing, what does N.Y. have, IMO, they have nothing, IMO, they have a bunch of morons running the whole show that could care less about the sport it self.

I am asking anyone from the East Coast to explain why is N.Y. so screwed up, out here in California, I can list so many reasons why racing in California is in the garbage can.

As to Deepsix, who believes everything is wonderful, please do your research before you post.


So East Coast people, go for it.

Aside from this year, how is Atlantic City supporting horse racing?
Actually, it is quite the opposite. After the A.C. casino supplement monies run out after this year- Atlantic City and the state politicians from that area want horse racing to die. Google "State Senator Jim Whelan". Read some of his rhetoric. If more money is not found for next year- the million dollar a day purse structure that this Monmouth meet is seeing is purely a one shot deal.

[MaTH716]

I agree with Bluto. Atlantic City is struggling due to all this other competition opening up all over the place. They used to be the only game in town on the East coast. Now there are slots and tables games opening all over the place. So I doubt that they will be kicking money to the racing industry. The question will be what will happen when to racing if the casinos don't kick the cash towards the sport. Then racing in Jersey could be in serious jeopardy.
As far as NYRA goes, you think that eventually the state will get the slots done. The fact that it's still not done is absolutely amazing. Considering that alot of the money is suppose to go towards education. But once the slots are done NYRA will have the cash on hand to make improvements and upgrades to their venues and overall racing product. Overall it will lead to what I percieve as the best racing circuit (although I'll admit that I'm am very biased) getting even better.

[OTM Al]

I love these kneejerk reactions. 2 racedays in and victory is proclaimed. Hmmm....sounds like something said from the deck of an aircraft carrier a few years back....but don't want to get political here. Point is, there are still 48 days worth of meet to go. What happens to them if we have another rainy summer like the one that caused such damage to Saratoga numbers a couple years ago? What happens if the drive for those big dollars starts resulting in injuries to horses that shouldn't have been running? What happens if the first week had a novelty value that wears off when players go back to their home tracks because they are losing too much at Monmouth? Do you think there is any chance this happens again next year if AC stops its subsidy?

These are all valid questions and there are probably many more. Don't get me wrong, I hope they do well. Might even get good odds on Joe Bravo horses now which you never could before. I hope they get more people involved who want to keep playing after the meet ends. That would be benefit to everyone. But they didn't "blow anyone away" and they aren't going to. I see two very scary outcomes from this. If they succeed, AC is going to say, look, they don't need our money and may well get away with it. This will change everything right back and you'll end up with a 50 day meet back at the old purse level scrambling to get by. Or it fails, in which case NJ has another excuse to rid itself of horseracing as if this didn't work, nothing will. These are the sort of things you and the rest of us should be worried about, not NY racing going away. I would be very concerned that Monmouth was given just enough rope to hang itself, because there are plenty of people in NJ who want that to happen.

[tzipi]

Belmont will be fine and always will. It's not like Belmont has low purses and nothing to offer. It's is still a top venue. Plus this Monmouth experiment just started. Let's give it a little time first to see what it's impact will be or how they do overall.

[Igeteven]

NY Racing isn't all that screwed up. Once you get past the money issue...lol

The racing product is in high demand, and we don't have to cancel cards due to lack of entries.

All the owners have left, only ones that are stuck here have to remain.

[Tom]

All the owners have left, only ones that are stuck here have to remain.

And you have the stats to back this up....a list of who left and who stayed and why they are stuck?

[ddog]

Their handle is like 28%(inflation-adj) of what it was 20-30 YEARS ago??/ Is that what I hear now???

Given that , i think NY will do ok on the destruction front no outsiders need lend a hand.

What a putrid state/city gvt you dudes have there.

Good luck, I MEAN it , you will need that and more.

P.S. I don't care what the vlt/gambling stuff says now, that money (if they ever get anything going to produce it) is going to be gone before long.

Too many holes in the finances over too many out years, the horsemen may end up with a pittance , but the overall taxes will eat that up anyway.

Zero sum game on this front, anyway.

[skate]

yep, you got zero front, back and biggest of all zero up top.

[OTM Al]

Their handle is like 28%(inflation-adj) of what it was 20-30 YEARS ago??/ Is that what I hear now???

Given that , i think NY will do ok on the destruction front no outsiders need lend a hand.

What a putrid state/city gvt you dudes have there.

Good luck, I MEAN it , you will need that and more.

P.S. I don't care what the vlt/gambling stuff says now, that money (if they ever get anything going to produce it) is going to be gone before long.

Too many holes in the finances over too many out years, the horsemen may end up with a pittance , but the overall taxes will eat that up anyway.

Zero sum game on this front, anyway.

I believe that is in comparison to 1978 if I remember the story right. There was a NY State Lottery back then, though it had just been involved in some sort of scandal and certainly didn't offer the vast number of "games" as it does now. There was now Megamillions or Powerball back then though. OTBs were still fairly new and hadn't proliferated that much yet. Not sure when they started taking out of state tracks. Of course there was no internet wagering. The only casinos were down in AC. So The track was one of the few places where legal wagering could occur. So I think that would explain quite a bit of the loss right there.

[ddog]

yep, you got zero front, back and biggest of all zero up top.
:D


I like that one.

topical ........ nah, wasted.

[skate]

increase in take for Monmouth will allow N Y tracks to go back to school and see how things are going to change for the better.


On the right path.:)

[ddog]

I believe that is in comparison to 1978 if I remember the story right. There was a NY State Lottery back then, though it had just been involved in some sort of scandal and certainly didn't offer the vast number of "games" as it does now. There was now Megamillions or Powerball back then though. OTBs were still fairly new and hadn't proliferated that much yet. Not sure when they started taking out of state tracks. Of course there was no internet wagering. The only casinos were down in AC. So The track was one of the few places where legal wagering could occur. So I think that would explain quite a bit of the loss right there.

Yes, I am sure the gambling jones is easier to fix these days.

Why would we think a return or anything close to that will be possible?

Isn't that what everyone seems to be trying to do, return to the glory days of handle?

I don't know,seems you have to radically cut first then if handle returns you can rebuild.

[Stevie Belmont]

I think NY and NJ should find a way to work together...

[onefast99]

I think NY and NJ should find a way to work together...
Very well said, we are all part of the problems in racing today and we all need to be part of the solution.

[onefast99]

Aside from this year, how is Atlantic City supporting horse racing?
Actually, it is quite the opposite. After the A.C. casino supplement monies run out after this year- Atlantic City and the state politicians from that area want horse racing to die. Google "State Senator Jim Whelan". Read some of his rhetoric. If more money is not found for next year- the million dollar a day purse structure that this Monmouth meet is seeing is purely a one shot deal.
Remember the state OTW's are kicking in a lot of money to the racing industry in NJ and as they expand even more monies will make its way to the tracks. The 50 day meet is an experiment this year because it cannot fail as the monies have been appropriated to the industry for 2010 from the casino revenue funds. Next year is when the racing industry has to ask Christi for more dollars, the only way he will say yes is if the meet is a success.

[PaceAdvantage]

All the owners have left, only ones that are stuck here have to remain.What are you talking about?

[InsideThePylons-MW]

What are you talking about?

I think he's talking about CA. If he is, his statement has merit.

[PaceAdvantage]

I think he's talking about CA. If he is, his staement has merit.Makes sense then...for some reason, I thought he was referring to NY owners leaving for NJ. I should have caught his use of the word "here." My bad.

[lamboguy]

if you want to train up 2 yo's you are better off in new york than you are in monmouth due to the surface, that part is not going to change. the surface in monmouth gets to hard in the heat of the summer and makes it alot tougher to keep your baby in training without bucking shins, or getting shin splints. what was disapointing is that the first 2 yo race of the year took place in new york yesterday with a very weak group of horses. i rember when the 2 yo races started the first week in april and i always had 1 or 2 horses in that race. new york has taken a back seat in getting its 2yo program off the ground to deleware. that is probably because all the 2yo trainers like deleware's surface this time of the year. saratoga is second to none, and there still are plenty training up there that you won't see many of for a couple of more weeks. but that is how this game has evolved. personally i think belmont park is the greatest place on earth. that place has always been run great, and its always been a good surface to train over. i just looked in the book and did not see the astoria or tremont stakes listed. those were 2yo stakes that always took place in belmont in june. maybe that is another reason it took them so long to get going.

[andymays]

if you want to train up 2 yo's you are better off in new york than you are in monmouth due to the surface, that part is not going to change. the surface in monmouth gets to hard in the heat of the summer and makes it alot tougher to keep your baby in training without bucking shins, or getting shin splints. what was disapointing is that the first 2 yo race of the year took place in new york yesterday with a very weak group of horses.
I could have sworn I heard someone say that the surface at Monmouth was changed from last year in some way. I don't normally follow Monmouth closely but will this meet. Wasn't opening day a little slow for Monmouth? Or is that normal for the start of the meet?

[onefast99]

if you want to train up 2 yo's you are better off in new york than you are in monmouth due to the surface, that part is not going to change. the surface in monmouth gets to hard in the heat of the summer and makes it alot tougher to keep your baby in training without bucking shins, or getting shin splints. what was disapointing is that the first 2 yo race of the year took place in new york yesterday with a very weak group of horses. i rember when the 2 yo races started the first week in april and i always had 1 or 2 horses in that race. new york has taken a back seat in getting its 2yo program off the ground to deleware. that is probably because all the 2yo trainers like deleware's surface this time of the year. saratoga is second to none, and there still are plenty training up there that you won't see many of for a couple of more weeks. but that is how this game has evolved. personally i think belmont park is the greatest place on earth. that place has always been run great, and its always been a good surface to train over. i just looked in the book and did not see the astoria or tremont stakes listed. those were 2yo stakes that always took place in belmont in june. maybe that is another reason it took them so long to get going.
There was a big change in 2010 for this track they put a new cushion down, trainers are very happy with the surface thus far.

[andymays]

There was a big change in 2010 for this track they put a new cushion down, trainers are very happy with the surface thus far.

Thanks, I thought I heard that. :ThmbUp:

[lamboguy]

Thanks, I thought I heard that. :ThmbUp:
if they indeed did put a cushion underneath the surface, it is real good for horses underneath them. the bigger 2 yo trainers in the past from monmouth have had their problems keeping horses together for later on in the meet. the only thing i know is to do that is very expensive, and like everything else monmouth has gone all out to try to make their meet the best ever this year. it would make sense that they have done that because i have seen trainers show up to monmouth that i would have never thought you could have brought there no matter how much they raised the purses unlsess they did something about the give in the track.

[Thomas Roulston]

What can they do in New York that they can't do (realistically) in New Jersey?

Answer: Card races at longer routes - more than a mile and a quarter on dirt, and more than a mile and an eighth on grass, due to the configuration of Belmont vs. that of Monmouth.

Remember how racing at Belmont was in the early 1980s? They need to return to that model.

And the differences in purses wouldn't matter; it's just like the opponents of raising the minimum wage point out: It's better to be employed at $5 an hour than unemployed at $10 an hour (since you couldn't get the bigger purses at Monmouth because they simply couldn't run those types of races).

[onefast99]

Thanks, I thought I heard that. :ThmbUp:
There is also a new full time track superintendent who knows how to maintain a track.

[OTM Al]

What can they do in New York that they can't do (realistically) in New Jersey?

Answer: Card races at longer routes - more than a mile and a quarter on dirt, and more than a mile and an eighth on grass, due to the configuration of Belmont vs. that of Monmouth.

Remember how racing at Belmont was in the early 1980s? They need to return to that model.

And the differences in purses wouldn't matter; it's just like the opponents of raising the minimum wage point out: It's better to be employed at $5 an hour than unemployed at $10 an hour (since you couldn't get the bigger purses at Monmouth because they simply couldn't run those types of races).

Simple question. Where you going to get the horses to run in such races? This would be a model for 3 horse races unfortunately. I like long races personally, but there's no horses out there to run in them any more.

[PhantomOnTour]

In terms of handle Belmont SMOKED Monmouth both days last weekend, and they carded fewer races and gave away less purse money...now which model sounds like it will work best?

[Igeteven]

What are you talking about?

I will explain, a lot of stables that have money left, until the situation turns around.

A person who owns maybe 1 or 2 horses, can't afford to ship their horses out of state or they want to watch them run at the local track.

[GaryG]

There will be NY racing as long as there is racing in this country. When the lights go out for the last time it will be at Belmont Park. I am glad that Monmouth put this terrific meet together, but it is a one shot deal. California will be around for a while as well.

[skate]

Makes sense then...for some reason, I thought he was referring to NY owners leaving for NJ. I should have caught his use of the word "here." My bad.

big world

[skate]

In terms of handle Belmont SMOKED Monmouth both days last weekend, and they carded fewer races and gave away less purse money...now which model sounds like it will work best?

adjustments are needed here.

Belmont smokes, fine, but compared to what? Last year, not so good with Comparison.

Fewer races and less Purse, sounds bout right.

Model does not show net.

We're looking for growth, without debt, you have no increase.

Without increase, you have no growth.

[badcompany]

But once the slots are done NYRA will have the cash on hand to make improvements and upgrades to their venues and overall racing product. Overall it will lead to what I percieve as the best racing circuit (although I'll admit that I'm am very biased) getting even better.

Most guys here bet primarily t-breds. As a harness guy, I've actually seen a few of these racinos. They do NOTHING to improve or promote racing. In fact, they discourage betting on horseracing. If anyone here heads up to 'Toga this year, take a trip to the Racino. If you go in through the front entrance, you'll have a tough time even finding the track. You'll see signs directing you to everything but the track and simulcast area.

[MaTH716]

Most guys here bet primarily t-breds. As a harness guy, I've actually seen a few of these racinos. They do NOTHING to improve or promote racing. In fact, they discourage betting on horseracing. If anyone here heads up to 'Toga this year, take a trip to the Racino. If you go in through the front entrance, you'll have a tough time even finding the track. You'll see signs directing you to everything but the track and simulcast area.

Have you been to Aqueduct lately? I was there on Wood day for the first time in about 6 years. Lets just say that it could use some work. Obviously money from the terminals will be going towards purses, so that in itself will improve racing. Also I would think that some of the money that NYRA get or whoever wins the contract will be renovating parts of the track. So that in itself could promote racing by having a state of the art section of the track to watch and bet the races.

[Tom]

Simple question. Where you going to get the horses to run in such races? This would be a model for 3 horse races unfortunately. I like long races personally, but there's no horses out there to run in them any more.

There was nothing like those old starter handicap races at the long routes.
I think many of those old 5K claimers were far better than stakes of today.

[badcompany]

Have you been to Aqueduct lately? I was there on Wood day for the first time in about 6 years. Lets just say that it could use some work. Obviously money from the terminals will be going towards purses, so that in itself will improve racing. Also I would think that some of the money that NYRA get or whoever wins the contract will be renovating parts of the track. So that in itself could promote racing by having a state of the art section of the track to watch and bet the races.

That bolded part made me laugh.

If that state of the art section is anything like those of the harness track racinos, horse players will be relegated to some poorly lit, far off corner of the place that resembles a bus station waiting room.

I don't doubt that Aqueduct could use work, but, if you think whoever finally gets the VLT contract is gonna see horse racing as something other than something that has to be tolerated in order to operate the more profitable slots business, IMO, you're sadly mistaken.

Let me ask if you've ever been to Yonkers. If not, take a trip up there and report back your findings. I assure you it will be an eye opener.

[Thomas Roulston]

Simple question. Where you going to get the horses to run in such races? This would be a model for 3 horse races unfortunately. I like long races personally, but there's no horses out there to run in them any more.


How did they do it in the early '80s? And maybe the creation of the Breeders' Cup Dirt Marathon will make such races more fashionable?

They don't seem to have any trouble filling these races at British all-weather tracks like Wolverhampton - so maybe these horses can be lured across the pond? And can be lured with Lasix, which is still banned in the UK, right?

[Robert Goren]

There was nothing like those old starter handicap races at the long routes.
I think many of those old 5K claimers were far better than stakes of today.:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[MaTH716]

That bolded part made me laugh.

If that state of the art section is anything like those of the harness track racinos, horse players will be relegated to some poorly lit, far off corner of the place that resembles a bus station waiting room.

I don't doubt that Aqueduct could use work, but, if you think whoever finally gets the VLT contract is gonna see horse racing as something other than something that has to be tolerated in order to operate the more profitable slots business, IMO, you're sadly mistaken.

Let me ask if you've ever been to Yonkers. If not, take a trip up there and report back your findings. I assure you it will be an eye opener.

First thing is that I have no plans on going to Yonkers anywhere in the distant future.

I just think it would be in NYRA's benifit to upgrade portions of Aqueduct. A state of the art handicapping/racing/viewing area would be a good thing. Not only would it be an improvement for the die hard loyalists that visit the track (I know we are not talking about big numbers here) on a daily basis. But if there is any crossover buisness to be had (and I believe that there will be some, not saying tons but there should be some there) then those people have a state of the art facility to go to and watch the races. If they don't upgrade sections of that track they will lose out on potential buisness. I'm guessing that none of those people (slots) are going to want to stay in the racetrack sections if they are kept in the exisiting conditions. I could be 100% wrong, but I just WANT to believe that there is some buisness for racing to be had.

Also if the facility is upgraded, I would think that Aqueduct could be back in the running for a Breeders Cup.

[the little guy]

How did they do it in the early '80s? And maybe the creation of the Breeders' Cup Dirt Marathon will make such races more fashionable?

They don't seem to have any trouble filling these races at British all-weather tracks like Wolverhampton - so maybe these horses can be lured across the pond? And can be lured with Lasix, which is still banned in the UK, right?


You must be Rip Van Winkle.

[Tom]

We lured him over, so it might work!

[Tom]

I would, in fairness, point out that Belmont scratches have been up for a while now, and, after noon, no Joisey scratches. Must too many horses for them to count them all, huh? :rolleyes:

[Grits]

There will be NY racing as long as there is racing in this country. When the lights go out for the last time it will be at Belmont Park. I am glad that Monmouth put this terrific meet together, but it is a one shot deal. California will be around for a while as well.

I agree with this Gary. New York will be the last one standing. Slots aren't gonna right this ship. Only closing smaller tracks--attrition--will help racing. There are far, far too many tracks. It has been the case for years.

Monmouth's looking good right now, but I wonder if this will prove successful as their yearly plan over the next decade. I don't think so; I believe it'll prove more short lived.

When the NY horses move upstate in a few weeks, one will note Monmouth's entries will take a dive. Elevated purses or not.

[Canarsie]

I could have sworn I heard someone say that the surface at Monmouth was changed from last year in some way. I don't normally follow Monmouth closely but will this meet. Wasn't opening day a little slow for Monmouth? Or is that normal for the start of the meet?


I heard it on TVG but here's an article on it. Just do a word search for cushion on the page.

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/news/article.cgi?id=18517

[badcompany]

First thing is that I have no plans on going to Yonkers anywhere in the distant future.

I just think it would be in NYRA's benifit to upgrade portions of Aqueduct. A state of the art handicapping/racing/viewing area would be a good thing. Not only would it be an improvement for the die hard loyalists that visit the track (I know we are not talking about big numbers here) on a daily basis. But if there is any crossover buisness to be had (and I believe that there will be some, not saying tons but there should be some there) then those people have a state of the art facility to go to and watch the races. If they don't upgrade sections of that track they will lose out on potential buisness. I'm guessing that none of those people (slots) are going to want to stay in the racetrack sections if they are kept in the exisiting conditions. I could be 100% wrong, but I just WANT to believe that there is some buisness for racing to be had.

Also if the facility is upgraded, I would think that Aqueduct could be back in the running for a Breeders Cup.

I'm just telling you what I've seen so far in tracks that have become "Racinos." Horseracing gets the short shrift. I'd be more than happy to tell you that VLTs are good thing for horseracing IN THE LONG RUN (short term they will increase purse money) but that's not the case.

Do you really think the VLT operators want horseracing as part of the package, or, would they much rather have a standalone casino?

It's a situation in which a good looking girl (VLTs) agrees to go out with you on the condition that she brings along her fat, annoying friend (horseracing).

[miesque]

I'm just telling you what I've seen so far in tracks that have become "Racinos." Horseracing gets the short shrift. I'd be more than happy to tell you that VLTs are good thing for horseracing IN THE LONG RUN (short term they will increase purse money) but that's not the case.

Do you really think the VLT operators want horseracing as part of the package, or, would they much rather have a standalone casino?

It's a situation in which a good looking girl (VLTs) agrees to go out with you on the condition that she brings along her fat, annoying friend (horseracing).

This is a very true statement and it is very easy for that horsemen welfare from slots to get pared back, especially with so many fingers wanting a piece of the action (and NY has an especially high level of other parties chomping at the bit to siphon off funds). From the way I see it, no horseplayer should want slots to show up at a track because it is severely detrimental to them (as well as the actual horsemen in the longer term). Slots and horse racing are in competition for gambling dollars and what will be very interesting to see in New York is having two different companies running the casino and horse racing sides and hence much more direct competition because the casino operator is not going to see even a fractional penny of any pari-mutuel wagering which they would if they owned both divisions. The casino's goal is going to be to convert as many of those butts currently sitting at in seats at Aqueduct and Belmont wagering on horses to sittnig in front of a slot machine. The more individuals (and hence dollars) they entice over with a superior custoner experience (and there is not a casino worth half its salt that can't out compete with NYRA on the customer service angle) not only the greater revenue them, but the decreased handle and attendence on the horseracing side gives greater ammunition to reduce purse subsidies, etc. Now I realize that there are those in New York who don't think this will happen to them, a lot of horseplayers who are located around racinos would beg to differ.

[Tom]

Finger Lakes has blended the two nicely, IMHO. The racing has not taken a back set and the two co-exist to the benefit of the fan. They have TVs and betting machines right in the racino bar area and easy access to and fro the racing to the slot/bar/food areas. All in all, a huge success for both sides.

[MaTH716]

I'm just telling you what I've seen so far in tracks that have become "Racinos." Horseracing gets the short shrift. I'd be more than happy to tell you that VLTs are good thing for horseracing IN THE LONG RUN (short term they will increase purse money) but that's not the case.

Do you really think the VLT operators want horseracing as part of the package, or, would they much rather have a standalone casino?

It's a situation in which a good looking girl (VLTs) agrees to go out with you on the condition that she brings along her fat, annoying friend (horseracing).
See, I believe in certain spots both could work. Aqueduct is one of those spots. There seems to be enough room there if they wanted to expand the track with a hotel attachment. I just don't understand what's wrong with the racing aspect. It's another form of gambling and entertainment for patrons. Also the slot operators will probably benefit more from the horse players then vice versa.
I just think it's a good spot for it all, especially if they could strike a deal with JFK and get some sort of shuttle back and fourth from the airport. People with a few hours to kill on a stop over might rather come over eat a meal, play a few races, or play the slots for a while rather than sit in an idle airport. Take advantage of any type of possible customer base that is available.

[badcompany]

Finger Lakes has blended the two nicely, IMHO. The racing has not taken a back set and the two co-exist to the benefit of the fan. They have TVs and betting machines right in the racino bar area and easy access to and fro the racing to the slot/bar/food areas. All in all, a huge success for both sides.

The logo, below, is from the Finger Lakes website. I don't see no horsies there. I do see a "777" and the word "Gaming" in a font three times the size of the word "Racetrack."

Doesn't exactly scream "50/50 Partnership." Does it?

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/object2/708/87/n158601823692_8643.jpg

[samyn on the green]

Great analogy! Maybe the post of the year!IIt's a situation in which a good looking girl (VLTs) agrees to go out with you on the condition that she brings along her fat, annoying friend (horseracing).

[Tom]

The logo, below, is from the Finger Lakes website. I don't see no horsies there. I do see a "777" and the word "Gaming" in a font three times the size of the word "Racetrack."

Doesn't exactly scream "50/50 Partnership." Does it?



You going to sit by the sign of go inside?

[skate]

You going to sit by the sign of go inside?

:lol: your killing me

[badcompany]

You going to sit by the sign of go inside?

Yeah, I'm mainly a harness guy. So, I would go to simulcasting at night. Oh, wait they close the simucasting at 6 on weekdays and at 10 on Fridays and Saturdays, so the people get kicked out before the night time cards end. But I guess harness and night time t-bred racing aren't really horseracing.

http://www.fingerlakesracetrack.com/new-york-horse-racing_live-horse-racing-info.aspx

"Live/Simulcast Racing Schedule

Finger Lakes Gaming & Racetrack is open year-round for thoroughbred racing excitement. In addition to a live racing schedule that typically spans from mid-April through November, simulcasting from the country's top tracks is available during the winter season. Simulcasting concludes at 6:00pm Sunday through Thursday and is generally open until 10pm on Friday and Saturday nights."

Of course, it's not too much trouble to keep the casino open until 2am, seven days a weeks.

http://www.fingerlakesracetrack.com/rochester-new-york-entertainment.aspx

"Finger Lakes Gaming & Racetrack offers nearly 1,200 slot machines for your enjoyment. Our spacious, 30,000 square foot gaming floor allows you to move around in comfort. From 10am – 2am daily"

Now, I understand I'm not dealing with Aristotle, here, but, even you should be able to see that horseplayers are second class citizens at that joint.

[cj]

You going to sit by the sign of go inside?

I have never been there so I can't pretend to know how the horse bettor is being treated. I would certainly take your word for it. That said, don't the purses still suck? It doesn't seem like slots are really helping the horsemen very much.

[Tom]

Compared to pre-slots, much better.
I think they are being realistic in who they are going to ship here. NY breds are the mainstay, and when they can't run and win at NYRA, we are where they go. Why throw money at them when they are coming anyway. We are at a point now where we have horses who can ship out and compete at better circuits and that is a change. There was a time when they played "Feelings" instead of the national anthem. You called and asked what time was post for the first and they woudl ask what time you could make it.

Serioulsy, though, the whole track is vastly improved inside - comfort, top notch, lots os seating and pricvate TVs, overall one of the most comfortable track I have ever been to.

[Tom]

Now, I understand I'm not dealing with Aristotle, here, but, even you should be able to see that horseplayers are second class citizens at that joint.

Nonsense. You ever GO there on a Fri or Sat night?
If you did, you were one 8 people there. There is no market for night simulcasting.

The slots are packed at night. Makes sense to keep them open.

[Tom]

That said, don't the purses still suck?

I had to look to see what they have gone up.
2000, a ALW NW2 NYB was $14-15,000 purse, today it's about $22,000
2000, ALW NW3 was about $10,000, today, it's $19,000.

In the 90's were were talking a whole lot less than 2000.

[badcompany]

Nonsense. You ever GO there on a Fri or Sat night?
If you did, you were one 8 people there. There is no market for night simulcasting.

The slots are packed at night. Makes sense to keep them open.

What?

In a previous post, you said it was a huge success for all involved. Apparently, you weren't including simulcasting.

Why exactly is there no market for night racing when the slots are packed? I thought VLTs were going to be good for horseracing.

Could it be that the powers that be at that venue have no desire to promote racing? Do those "Player Points" given to slots players also apply to horseplayers? Let me guess: No.

Mark my words, sooner or later, horseracing at Fingerlakes will be phased out. They'll probably do it little by little, making the season shorter and shorter.

And it's not just that track but every track with a racino.

Bottom Line: Slots money is fool's gold.

[Tom]

So you are saying that if there were no slots, we have full houses of simulcasting at night?

Guess what, before slots, there was still no market at night.
Have you ever been here, or do you just know everything?

From the website that you obviously missed:

It is Easy! The Player Extras card you are issued can be used on slots and for racing wagers. When you play our slots, insert your card and leave it in while you play. Racing fans, before you place a wager, hand your card to the teller. Please note: A Player Extras card does not carry a monetary balance. It is to record your play for rewards purposes only.

Don't waste my time.