Stop hiding the horses behind graphics and lead ponies

[Foolish Pleasure]

Please.

Stop hiding the horses behind crap.

Nobody is tuning in to see the crap that they can get at 1000 other locations-

people are tuning in to see the horses.

please WTFU already.

[kenwoodall2]

Showing 1 minute of the parade while showing the wrong graphic does not make it! TV HAS to fill all vacant audio spots but racing TV has no competent fill-announcers!

[46zilzal]

The answer is simple...Horses are led from their left from the time they are first under tack. Approach a horse from its right and it is confused and sets off the fight or flight in them. Horses come from the paddock with the lead ponies to their LEFT thereby blocking the view DOWN the track but NOT when they turn to come back. Graphics displays depend upon the television provider.

[Bruddah]

Showing 1 minute of the parade while showing the wrong graphic does not make it! TV HAS to fill all vacant audio spots but racing TV has no competent fill-announcers!

I'm happy you guys brought this up. I don't bet many simulcasts or OTB's because of this very reason. I like to see the physicality of the horses while they are on the track. When I am at the track, I have some small binoculars which I use to watch the horse's phycicality. I especially like to watch their warm ups on the backside. I have picked up on many longshots during the back side warm ups.

During the post parade the tracks like to super impose bull which doesn't mean a thing and never show the backside warm ups. While I rely on my data base and handicapping for my selections, last minute physicality does play a role in completion or addition of my bets. If you don't think physicality plays a role, you are sending your money through the windows blindly. (JMHO)

[Tom]

I have to agree here - what is going on...the graphics department run by some one's nephew????

Stop with the crap already!

[Foolish Pleasure]

The ones that drive me most crazy are the ones who cover the legs with graphics.

It has to be costing them money.
I bet more when I get a good look at every horse vs just betting off a form.
I will bet stuff I wouldn't have even considered if a bet animal looks stiff.

I can't be alone here this has to be costing handle and is such an easy thing to fix. Just give me some good complete lateral shots of the whole animal moving-just not that complicated.

[Marshall Bennett]

TVG put Belmont race #2 on tape in lieu of a harness race . Don't know what I was doing there , but have been on HRTV since .

[Jeff P]

I'm glad this has been brought this up again.

About 2 yrs ago we had a thread on this exact same topic... post parades where the view of the runners is obstructed.

Link:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46670&page=1&pp=15

May I draw your attention to posts #6 and #25 made by me in that thread about Mountaineer's post parades?

Also post #25 in that same thread made by Mark explaining that the suggestion to correct this was discussed at Mountaineer...

and subsequently REJECTED BY THE HORSEMEN.

Would anyone (Bueller... Bueller... anyone...) care to explain (publicly) the reasoning behind purposely obstructing the view of the runners during post parades?


-jp

.

[joanied]

I also stick with HRTV...I don't know what it is about TVG that I just don't like...

but...I hate the graphics...I'm with everyone else, I wanna see the horses, not a bunch of crap I don't need to see.

I think all this graphics stuff got started when 9/11 happened...before that I don't remember having to put up with that damned scrolling stuff at the bottom of the TV screen...and maybe all the use of graphics is just some numbnuts thinking they are being creative...ugh!!

[Foolish Pleasure]

Jeff thanks for the posting that link.

Just incredible that it is a purposeful thing at least at MNR,

I wonder how many others are doing it on purpose?

and as far as that is concerned-I had some communications recently with the racing secrectaries at PENN and CT-both owned by PENN GAMING and sending 80% of their races off at the same time-the guy at PENN's response made it seem as if that is purposeful too-as if they running racing into the ground as a business plan.

[shouldacoulda]

If you don't think physicality plays a role, you are sending your money through the windows blindly. (JMHO)

I have to agree with you after my latest trip to the track. I was always an OTB or internet bettor and have only been to Belmont 4 times (and once to the beloved Roosevelt Raceway). There is only so much you can pick up on from a monitor as you are at the mercy of the producer calling the camera shots.
Many years ago I was a messenger and had to pick up the race tape from Belmont and deliver it to the television studio for airing. I was inside the TV truck waiting for them to finish editing. It was the coolest to say the least. You can't believe how many camera angles there are. More than what you see on the broadcast. It stinks when they leave the camera on the same darn 3 or 4 horses when they warm up. It doesn't come close to being there.

[Stillriledup]

This is really annoying. Show the horses.

[5k-claim]

I'm glad this has been brought this up again.

About 2 yrs ago we had a thread on this exact same topic... post parades where the view of the runners is obstructed.

Link:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46670&page=1&pp=15

May I draw your attention to posts #6 and #25 made by me in that thread about Mountaineer's post parades?

Also post #25 in that same thread made by Mark explaining that the suggestion to correct this was discussed at Mountaineer...

and subsequently REJECTED BY THE HORSEMEN.

Would anyone (Bueller... Bueller... anyone...) care to explain (publicly) the reasoning behind purposely obstructing the view of the runners during post parades?

-jp

.

Hi Jeff,

I followed your link and read the original discussion, and I still need to be convinced that whatever proposed changes to the post parade the HORSEMEN rejected had anything to do with "purposely obstructing the view of the runners during post parades".

The original thread did not say specifically what post parade changes were discussed and rejected, even when that question was asked. It just ran off. (Posts 25-26)

Now, maybe you are right. I am not local to MNR, and don't even know any guys who are. I do ship there, as well as lots of the guys I know. But maybe the local HORSEMEN do have reasons for "purposely obstructing the view of the runners during post parades". Could be. I guess this wouldn't be the strangest thing I have ever heard people do in an effort to improve their gambling returns. That is the reason you think the HORSEMEN all decided to reject the post parade changes? To try and hide their horses' forms for wagering purposes? Or is it because the local horses are lame? Or is it just to be obstinate? You will have to tell me, since I don't know.

If this is true, then I sincerely thank you for a very interesting piece of information that I did not already have- although I am not sure exactly how to make use of it. Still, I would like confirmation that the rejection of post parade changes was inspired by a desire for "purposely obstructing the view of the runners during post parades".

I would like to know specifically what changes were proposed and rejected.

I guess it is true that you learn something new every day.

Thank you!!

[Jeff P]

5k-claim,

What I did was suggest an easy way for MNR to improve the quality of their post parades for the benefit of the player in a way that bears no additional cost... and asked Mark to run it by management.

...Still, I would like confirmation that the rejection of post parade changes was inspired by a desire for "purposely obstructing the view of the runners during post parades".
Do I know the true motivations behind rejecting my suggestions? No.

The truth is I know absolutely nothing about what was discussed between management at MNR and the horsemen as relates to their post parades other than what Mark posted in that old thread.

However, my gut reaction based on Mark's response in that old thread was that certain local horsesmen rejected my suggestions for precisely one reason as hinted at by Mark in his response:

They did not want knowledgeable competition in the pools.

Do I know for a fact whether or not that was their real motivation? No.

Does the real reason even matter at this point? No.

Personally, I was put off enough that I've stopped betting significant money at MNR.


Mark, Is there any chance of taking another run at this? Understand that we're not asking for MNR to spend additional money. All the players want is an unobstructed view of each starter in the post parade... How about it?


-jp

.

[5k-claim]

5k-claim,
....Mark, Is there any chance of taking another run at this? Understand that we're not asking for MNR to spend additional money. All the players want is an unobstructed view of each starter in the post parade... How about it?
-jp

.

Hi Jeff,

I support this 110%.

[badcompany]

This isn't exclusive to horseracing.

On CNBC, the breasts of the female anchors are often covered up by stupid "Breaking News" graphics.

It's appalling.;)

[ArlJim78]

Great idea to be able to get a more clear unobstructed view of the horses. I'm all for it.

Once we have a view of them in the post parade, maybe the next thing we can ask for is to be able to see them during the actual race. My pet peeve is Arlington Park where all long the back stretch the horses are continuously obstructed by huge willow trees. At other places you have light poles, tents, trees, grandstands, flag poles, etc, to contend with as you try to watch the live race.

To me its racing 101. People are watching those feeds to see the horses; getting saddled, the post parade, warm up, and of course the race. how about concentrating on that guys.

[jonnielu]

I'm glad this has been brought this up again.

About 2 yrs ago we had a thread on this exact same topic... post parades where the view of the runners is obstructed.

Link:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46670&page=1&pp=15

May I draw your attention to posts #6 and #25 made by me in that thread about Mountaineer's post parades?

Also post #25 in that same thread made by Mark explaining that the suggestion to correct this was discussed at Mountaineer...

and subsequently REJECTED BY THE HORSEMEN.

Would anyone (Bueller... Bueller... anyone...) care to explain (publicly) the reasoning behind purposely obstructing the view of the runners during post parades?


-jp

.

Of course, the horsemen wouldn't want to give up an advantage that they have in hand, that should be simple enough to understand. But, the track would also like to have the horsemen handy to blame it on rather then admit that a proper display might cut into their publishing take.

Racing is not at all interested in pointing out any of the simple ways that the average player could make an intelligent bet, and physicality is one. What is really funny is that as average people move away from racing by the uncountable thousands everyday, racing is refusing to make the initial sale (a patron) so that it can have the related sale ( a patron buying a program, a DRF, a sheet or two ).

Because through the whole established mess, the remaining die-hard patron can be delivered to those that own racing for a complete fleecing everyday. What could be better?

When they already have you paying an extra $5 a day for published materials telling you to bet the favorite, they certainly wouldn't want anyone noticing the favorite doing nothing but walking to the gate.

Racing continues to do what is easiest, without any understanding that people do exactly the same thing, and the easiest way to gamble is a scratch-off from the corner store,

jdl

[thespaah]

There is a solution to this problem. Take these tracks off you list of bettable places.
The best way to tell a restaurant their food sucks is do not eat there.

[5k-claim]

Of course, the horsemen wouldn't want to give up an advantage that they have in hand, that should be simple enough to understand. But, the track would also like to have the horsemen handy to blame it on rather then admit that a proper display might cut into their publishing take.....
jdl

Hi jonnielu,

Your first statement makes perfect sense. Human nature is to hold onto any advantage you may have. But whether 'physicality' during the post parade and warm-up would reveal your horse to be in better shape than on paper, or worse, there is enough time between when the horses first set foot on the track to when they are loaded into the gate for some decent television footage.

Maybe the horsemen at MNR have more power than I realized. Could be. But unless a small group of trainers are running the cameras and directing all of the angles that are shown on the broadcast, this just feels to me more like a television production issue than an "all horsemen stood in a united front to block the public from seeing unobstructed views of their horses on television" event.

How did the trainers get final control of the camera placements and directing the television broadcast? I just find that very interesting.

I have no earthly idea what changes in the post parade were requested, but if the changes had any effect on the amount of time available for warm-up, then it would not surprise me if those changes were rejected. (My own view would be for the television guys to show whatever they want of the horse, and as much as they want, without eating into the time available for warm-up.) On the other hand, if all the suggested changes did was just move around camera angles to improve the television audience's view of the horses, then I wish I could have been in the meeting to hear the horsemen's creative rationale for rejecting that. I cannot even imagine one.

Racing continues to do what is easiest, without any understanding that people do exactly the same thing, and the easiest way to gamble is a scratch-off from the corner store,

Excellent point!! Being such a small potato (think tater tot size) in the sport, it is easy for me to be for more transparency, less drugs and unobstructed views of the horses for television audiences. I do not really have very much to lose.

Reading posts on this forum has definitely opened my eyes to how racing needs to act on ideas to improve the integrity and quality of its gambling product. Issues that I had never even thought of before. I just glance over the stuff about the sport being run by "abject idiots and greedy horsemen who do nothing but baby weak crop after weak crop of slow moving tomato cans." It takes a lot of glancing, sometimes.

[toussaud]

There is a solution to this problem. Take these tracks off you list of bettable places.
The best way to tell a restaurant their food sucks is do not eat there.


I sad the same thing durning the preakness and almost got laughed off the forum.


why don't they just put a camera on the infield somewhere instead on top of the track?

anywayhttp://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy99/ghostzapper/whatthef.jpg

wth am i supposed to do with this? waht is the purpose of showing this?

that's why i don't bet pimlico, laurel, for the most part nyra (they have it bad).

the tracks who do the best job IMHO are oaklawn, santa anita, hollywood, keeneland, churchill, gulfstream, fair grounds, charles town actually does a heck of a job showing post parades, oen of the best in the biz if you ask me some tracks could learn a thing or two from their camera work.