Gordon Jones Quitting Radio Show

[Lefty]

Gordon Jones announced this morn. he is leaving the morning Radio Show sponsored by Sam's Town. He says he needs to spend more time on research and completing his book.
Patrick McQuiggen and prob. John Kelly will continue with the show.
GJ will continue faxing his selections to Sam's Town and will make occasional appearances on the radio show that airs 7:30 AM Pacific Time.

[lousycapper]

:D That Gordon "Speedy" Jones found out you can't pay the rent on the salary they pay for a horse racing radio program? So he needs to get another book published to sell to the next generation of "chumps" before the landlord nails the door shut! Do you think the "Professor" can get "Willie" Shoemaker to endorse another "handicapping classic"? Ha, ha! :D

[Lefty]

lc, GJ gets pd by Sams Town to provide selections. He must be doing well, cause that "book" is always crowded. I take him at his word.
His first book WAS and IS a classic. I've been after him for twenty yrs to get this 3rd one finished.
You can bet he can get just about anyone he knows to endorse it and he knows a lot of people in racing.

[gino]

The last thing Gordon Jones is worried about is the rent...one of the nicest people in the game, a great handicapper, and a true classic...the man who dubbed Fresno "the Chicago of the West"...

gino

[Tom]

...there was a second book?

[GameTheory]

http://thelazymansway.com/

Scroll down...

[Lefty]

GT, right on. "Smart Money" (money mgt) was the other book.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by lousycapper
:D That Gordon "Speedy" Jones found out you can't pay the rent on the salary they pay for a horse racing radio program? So he needs to get another book published to sell to the next generation of "chumps" before the landlord nails the door shut! Do you think the "Professor" can get "Willie" Shoemaker to endorse another "handicapping classic"? Ha, ha! :D

You and gramps never have anything positive to say, do you?

[lousycapper]

You and gramps never have anything positive to say, do you?

=============================

:D Mr. Pace Advantage,

Sir, remember me, the iconoclast? This business has many people who really are full of themselves. I just poke fun at them and myself. Grampa has taught me you can never take what so called professional handicappers say too seriously if you plan to be successful. If I have offended anyone, then so be it! :D

-L.C.

[Lefty]

LC, and by the same token everyone's not a crook either. You should learn the diff. Did you even read GJ's book?
You're young but Grampa should know better.

[lousycapper]

Mr. Lefty,

Yes, I have read the book! It is flawed to say the least. Let's take page 19, et gratia, Secretariat's time is 1:45:2... "translate his time into 10ths" = 1:45.4.
Riva Ridge was 3.5 lengths behind what was his time? According to the "Professor" = 145.4 + .7 = 106.10

The formula I use...

(9 * 66) / 105.4 = 5.6356736
(9 * 66 - 3.5) / 105.4 = 5.6024667

5.6024667 / 5.6356736 = .9941077

105.4 / .9941077 = 106.02 seconds or
146:02

The "Professor" is off by almost 1/10 of a second. Many races are won by inches so 1/10 of a second difference is a lot. I rest my case.

-L.C.

[Lefty]

LC, and that invalidates the whole book? Talk about picking nits...You should win as much money, pick as many winners as the Professor has.

[Lefty]

LC, and furthermore...your post begs a question, maybe 2. Do you really make bets decided by a mere one tenth of a second? How long does it take to figure your convuluted method as opposed to using the Prof's simpler charts?

[lousycapper]

Originally posted by Lefty
LC, and furthermore...your post begs a question, maybe 2. Do you really make bets decided by a mere one tenth of a second? How long does it take to figure your convuluted method as opposed to using the Prof's simpler charts?

Mr. Lefty,

1st - That was only one example... his times are all off.

2nd - Why are times now computed in 100ths of a second? Why did the "Professor" go to 1/10ths instead of 1/5ths of a second unless he thought time/speed was important?

3rd - I believe milli or micro seconds since my calculations are done via software and a computer.

HAND

-L.C.

[GameTheory]

LC --

Your method probably is a little more accurate, but his way will lead to more winners. At least when judging horses solely by their figures.

Do you know why, or can Grampa tell you? Probably not, because you've dismissed them out-of-hand before doing any research. Make a large set of figures both ways and compare the predictive performance.

And if you don't judge the horses solely by their figures, the tiny difference between the two won't make any difference to your bottom-line whatsoever...

[lousycapper]

Originally posted by GameTheory
LC --

Your method probably is a little more accurate, but his way will lead to more winners. At least when judging horses solely by their figures.

Do you know why, or can Grampa tell you? Probably not, because you've dismissed them out-of-hand before doing any research. Make a large set of figures both ways and compare the predictive performance.

And if you don't judge the horses solely by their figures, the tiny difference between the two won't make any difference to your bottom-line whatsoever...

===========================

Mr. Lefty,

Time/speed is only one of several factors in handicapping. However, since the "Professor" went to 10ths of a second because he felt it was more accurate, I am refining the time factor even further. Times are always approximate since they do not time from the gate and the timing flag will vary from track to track. Until they time from the gate, and each horse has it's own microchip for accurate individual timing, I'll stick with my method.

The simple version for any call point:

LT = Leader's time
HT = Horse's running time
F = Furlongs
LB = Lengths Behind
R = Result

R = ((F * 66) - LB) / (F * 66)
HT = (LT / R)

Example: ((9 * 66) - 3.5) / (9 * 66)

105.4 / .9941077 = 106.02 or 146.02

============================

HAND

-L.C.

[Lefty]

GT, great response.
LC, By all means, stick to your method. But that still doesn't mean GJ is a crook and I do think you intimated that in your 1st post on the subject. Something about finding new chumps to sell a book to.
Perfect nos are not needed in this great game. Good enough nos. will do. I refer you to the 2nd edition of "Pace Makes The Race" where Dick schmidt expounds about "good enough nos."
Personally, I do not make decisions on which horses to bet based on a mere one tenth of a sec. So, since there is no perfect no.(not even yours)good enough nos. will have to do.

[lousycapper]

Mr. Lefty,

Because a person authors and sells a book on handicapping doesn't mean that he/she is a crook... My reference to "chumps" is valid. Would be handicappers seem to buy anything pertaining to horse racing even if it is proven to be junk. Grampa's library of books and programs that he has accumulated from various sources proves it. Most of it is junk, sans works by Rubin Boxer, Allen Hickman, Dr. Quirin. If I live for another 50-60 years I will sell all of it on Ebay as "junque". :D :D :D

-L.C.

[Dave Schwartz]

LC,

Just because someone buys a lot of reading material does not make a chump. Many times you can't tell whether or not you will get something useful from a book until you read it.

If anyone has an expectation that buying a particular book is going to provide ALL the answers they need to take them where they want to go, I'd say they probably have unrealistic expectations.

But, if they are like most people here, they already come with some degree of skill at horse racing. What they want/need is something to add to that current skill set that will allow them to rise higher.


I recall a professional player calling me about my software. He said that he had been making a good living at the races for over 20 years. My comment to him was, "Then why do you need my software?"

His response was, "Do you really think I am doing the same thing now that I did in 1976? I take a look at just about every new piece of software that comes along." That is an intelligent answer; a winner's answer.


Of course, these people could just simply listen to YOU and only read the books YOU suggest, and only use the software YOU tell them to use. But then, hey, why should anyone believe you?


Respectfully,
Dave Schwartz

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by lousycapper
Most of it is junk, sans works by Rubin Boxer


Now I know who you are!!! Welcome back!! LOL

[lousycapper]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Now I know who you are!!! Welcome back!! LOL

Mr. Pace Advantage,

Thank you for the welcome back... but you must have me mixed up with someone else. I have posted on two forums. This one and the former Yahoo bulletin board also as "lousycapper". Yes I was called a "numbnut" too, but that was a couple of years ago. I just started to post here recently. *****

-L.C.

[lousycapper]

Originally posted by Dave Schwartz
LC,

Just because someone buys a lot of reading material does not make a chump. Many times you can't tell whether or not you will get something useful from a book until you read it.

If anyone has an expectation that buying a particular book is going to provide ALL the answers they need to take them where they want to go, I'd say they probably have unrealistic expectations.

But, if they are like most people here, they already come with some degree of skill at horse racing. What they want/need is something to add to that current skill set that will allow them to rise higher.


I recall a professional player calling me about my software. He said that he had been making a good living at the races for over 20 years. My comment to him was, "Then why do you need my software?"

His response was, "Do you really think I am doing the same thing now that I did in 1976? I take a look at just about every new piece of software that comes along." That is an intelligent answer; a winner's answer.


Of course, these people could just simply listen to YOU and only read the books YOU suggest, and only use the software YOU tell them to use. But then, hey, why should anyone believe you?


Respectfully,
Dave Schwartz

============================

Mr. Schwartz,

I am happy to hear that people are out there buying handicapping books, software, et cetera. It's good for everybody. Grampa taught me not to pay too much attention to all of the racing babble that repeats itself with alarming regularity. I am not huckstering any particular software or books. I don't expect anyone to either agree with or listen to me. If they did then any edge I might have would be lost. This is an opinion forum so my two cents worth is no better than yours.

It's funny that a successful handicapper would change horses [pun intended] in the middle of the race. Grampa hasn't changed his method of play since the end of the Korean War. The exception being, he learned to program and wrote his own software to automate his method. He makes a considerable income, which I hope to duplicate. I wish you and all the posters continued success and "luck" in your endeavors.

Cordially,

-L.C.

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, there was only one other person on this board who used to invoke the name of Rube Boxer....I thought you might have been him....he had a similar sense of humor as well....


My mistake

[lousycapper]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Well, there was only one other person on this board who used to invoke the name of Rube Boxer....I thought you might have been him....he had a similar sense of humor as well....


My mistake

=============================

Maybe it was Mr. Boxer himself? He posted here, I think... don't remember his handle, NHD however.

HAND

-L.C.

[Tom]

So you know the winner ran 6f in 109.23.
Now what?
The place hors eis beaten 3 lengths. Or so the form says. What is a length? Who said it was three? Was it 2.5, 2.25, 3.5?
You don' tknow,
Same horse, two back, runs 111.32. Same track.
Did he really improve 2 seconds? Or was the track faster on day?
If it was faster, how much faster? How do you make an adjsutment?
Point being, I see horses that vary in times by over two seconds everyday in the form. And pace time vary wildly.
As far as I am concerned, a horse that runs 45.1 is just as fast as a horse who runs 45.3 unless you got some really convincing proof to the contrary. Personall.y I see no value in workin gin 100's. Even 10's is over kill to me, but I like 10's because it is easier to subtract times in my head. If you use Beyers, I don't think a horse who runs an 80 is at all at a disadvantage to one who runs an 88.
My latest endowvours in to harness racing do not include times in any way, shape or form. And they work better than previous elaborate time-based methods I used to use.

JMHO, not meant to be provacative, just encourage conversation, all of it friendly and nothing personal intended, and no inuendos, and certainly not meant to start an arguement or dimiss anyone's ideas as wrong. :rolleyes:

[keenang]

SOME OF YOU MAY BE OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER A CONTEST AT THE UNION PLAZA IN VEGAS HOSTED BY GJ. HE IS WITHOUT A DOUBT THE BEST THERE IS AT THAT JOB.AT THAT TIME HE ALSO SAID THAT THERE WAS ONLY ONE HORSE WHO COULD BEAT JOHN HENRY IN THE ARLINGTON MILLION. I DON,T RECALL THE NAME OF THE HORSE I THINK IT STARTED WITH A " T " THAT HORSE WON AND PAID A BIG BIG PRICE AND KEYED A HUGE EXACTA. LATER I SAW HIM AT SAMS AND THE MAN ALWAYS HAD TIME TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE.A REAL GENTLEMAN.
GENE

[Dave Schwartz]

Keenang,

I second what you said about Gordon Jones.

While he was certainly there for the money, he sold a good product and you always got your money's worth.

I used to go to his Saturday seminars at Santa Anita to pick up his newest par chart. It was well worth the $10. Actually listended to one of his seminars once. He was very direct on who he liked.

BTW, looking at his daughter (Joanne?) was a free perk. <G> She was quite pretty as I recall.


Dave

[cj]

Originally posted by Dave Schwartz

...BTW, looking at his daughter (Joanne?) was a free perk. <G> She was quite pretty as I recall...

Dave

She has appeared as a studio host on TVG on a few occasions.

[keenang]

DAVE
YOUR MEMORY IS STILL VERY GOOD.

[delayjf]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the horse in question that ran against John Henry in the Arlington Million was "The Bart". But, he lost to John Henry by a nose at long odds, triggered some big exotics.

[Maxspa]

All,
When I travel to Las Vegas, Sam's Town is always on my agenda only because of the presence of Gordon Jones. He is
a gentleman, who is always upfront re: bulletin board choices right there for everyone to see. He also leaves yesterday's picks on the board with finish position and prices.
He bets his selections and always has a pick six pool, that you
can participate in on a percentage basis. On a given day he is beseiged during the races with phone calls and I assume has big money clients. He has an 800 number for his choices as well. He used to give daily seminars at the California Fairs. I'm speculating but I'd be very surprised if he wasn't making a consistent profit with his betting and business ventures.
In addition , he always has time for people who visit Sam's Town whether it be a small time player like me or a big horse owner who wanted an opinion on his horse's chances in a race the day I happened to be there.
Gordon Jones in my opinion is an excellent handicapper and more than that he is a better person.
Maxspa