Why California will not recover.

[Igeteven]

Why California will not recover.

The betting war is on, no doubt about it, I predicted this last year and I warned each track to lower the betting amount and lower the take out.

A friend of mine says, horse racing must stand on it's own. I say impossible in California, there is no money to support it. With the internet. We can travel to each track and play what we want.

Out here, We don't have anything to support it like Monmouth Race Track does. Right now, they're getting the betting dollar from a lot of people in and out of state.

If anyone has gone to Santa Anita, Hollywood Park, and Del Mar, they're huge tracks and it costs tons of money to operate them.


We have a CHRB that is spine less to correct the problems out here and nothing will change until the whole board shows some guts and get things straight to bring back the game and make it whole. However, there is no money to back it up. The Indians have the money out here not the tracks.

Even if the take out was drop to 10 percent, other tracks would follow and we would be back at square one again. Older player such as my friend leave in a dream world and not looking at modern times, we can't live in the past but look forward. I am sick of people looking at the past, we must look forward to improve things and get competitive with the rest of the country. How they do it, it will be interesting, I don't have the answer. I guess, nobody does.

Even if California goes to 10 or 15 percent , drop to a style of betting Kentucky has gone to, I can't see our game out here ever recovering to make it profitable for the player or the owner. Out here, most owners lose their shirt unless they have a very good horse.

So as I see it, there will be 1 or 2 tracks survive and close down the rest.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Isn't the biggest problem in California day pay?

[Igeteven]

Isn't the biggest problem in California day pay?

yes that is one of the problems

Here is the main issue

1. to much take out

2. the surfaces on the tracks

3. their exotics are too high

4. short fields, owners are leaving because their horse can't run on this junk.

Only wealthy owners can foot the bill because of a tax write off.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

yes that is one of the problems

Here is the main issue

1. to much take out

2. the surfaces on the tracks

3. their exotics are too high

4. short fields, owners are leaving because their horse can't run on this junk.

Only wealthy owners can foot the bill because of a tax write off.
Short fields makes it easier on someone paying the high day rates. However, you lose a lot of field size, and a lot of potential gamblers. Since horse racing is dependent on gamblers, future purse money may decline more.

Takeout rates are too high everywhere.

I don't buy the surface excuse, sorry. Woodbine gets pretty good field size on average.

That being said, Woodbine gives out close to half a million a day, and they did barely over 2 million in handle. Even if they did the Monmouth thing and gave out a million a day, it wouldn't be that much more than 2-3 million tops.

It is complicated. That is for sure.

But if takeout rates were to drop everywhere, tracks would be flourishing today.

[Igeteven]

Short fields makes it easier on someone paying the high day rates. However, you lose a lot of field size, and a lot of potential gamblers. Since horse racing is dependent on gamblers, future purse money may decline more.

Takeout rates are too high everywhere.

I don't buy the surface excuse, sorry. Woodbine gets pretty good field size on average.

That being said, Woodbine gives out close to half a million a day, and they did barely over 2 million in handle. Even if they did the Monmouth thing and gave out a million a day, it wouldn't be that much more than 2-3 million tops.

It is complicated. That is for sure.

But if takeout rates were to drop everywhere, tracks would be flourishing today.


What I did notice, fast horses can't run, slow horses can run, nobodfy knows for sure what a horse will do, there is no handicapping out here.

Most of the time it is a grab bag.

[senortout]

What I did notice, fast horses can't run, slow horses can run, nobodfy knows for sure what a horse will do, there is no handicapping out here.

Most of the time it is a grab bag.

Me, I'm strange, will accept a fast horse vs a slow one over any surface.
The surfaces play fair enough for me to handicap speed and class, thats for sure.

senortout

[rwwupl]

yes that is one of the problems

Here is the main issue

1. to much take out

2. the surfaces on the tracks

3. their exotics are too high

4. short fields, owners are leaving because their horse can't run on this junk.

Only wealthy owners can foot the bill because of a tax write off.


All those things are true,and you say you do not have any answers. If you feel that way I agree with you.

Why waste your time telling us what everyone knows and complain if you have no idea or have done nothing to correct it?

For long term success this game must stand on its own...racing has existed on patches and crutches for too long.

There is only revenue from gambling that makes this game whole and sustainable, and gambling comes from the fan base. The fan base has shrunk because other gambling games have offered a better deal. The fans must be offered a better deal to grow the fan base(lower the take to optimum level),and a larger fan base at lower take will make all concerned very happy.The people running the tracks have made a mistake and created a climate to take the fans money faster,and that is wrong. We need to send home more winners and let the fans stick around longer and come back tomorrow

Monmouths experiment is a step in the right direction,but not the complete answer...We wish them well. There are many working (HANA and others) to create a workable business model with the cooperation of the Racetracks and Horsemen.

It will happen...and simple economics and positive thinking supporters will ensure it.

I hope we can count on you.

[Igeteven]

All those things are true,and you say you do not have any answers. If you feel that way I agree with you.

Why waste your time telling us what everyone knows and complain if you have no idea or have done nothing to correct it?

For long term success this game must stand on its own...racing has existed on patches and crutches for too long.

There is only revenue from gambling that makes this game whole and sustainable, and gambling comes from the fan base. The fan base has shrunk because other gambling games have offered a better deal. The fans must be offered a better deal to grow the fan base(lower the take to optimum level),and a larger fan base at lower take will make all concerned very happy.The people running the tracks have made a mistake and created a climate to take the fans money faster,and that is wrong. We need to send home more winners and let the fans stick around longer and come back tomorrow

Monmouths experiment is a step in the right direction,but not the complete answer...We wish them well. There are many working (HANA and others) to create a workable business model with the cooperation of the Racetracks and Horsemen.

It will happen...and simple economics and positive thinking supporters will ensure it.

I hope we can count on you.

Iam going to the next CHRB meeting at Santa Anita, I will be speaking for five minutes and laying out a plan.

One solution is to make the Indian casinos pay a curtain percentage of gaming revenue to the State that can go directly to purses for horse racing.

[DJofSD]

I hope they do go belly up. That way more races can be imported from out of state.

[Igeteven]

I hope they do go belly up. That way more races can be imported from out of state.


what good does that do, however, a few tracks will still carry on.

[ClassTrumpsSpeed]

Why California will not recover.

The betting war is on, no doubt about it, I predicted this last year and I warned each track to lower the betting amount and lower the take out.

A friend of mine says, horse racing must stand on it's own. I say impossible in California, there is no money to support it. With the internet. We can travel to each track and play what we want.

Out here, We don't have anything to support it like Monmouth Race Track does. Right now, they're getting the betting dollar from a lot of people in and out of state.

If anyone has gone to Santa Anita, Hollywood Park, and Del Mar, they're huge tracks and it costs tons of money to operate them.


We have a CHRB that is spine less to correct the problems out here and nothing will change until the whole board shows some guts and get things straight to bring back the game and make it whole. However, there is no money to back it up. The Indians have the money out here not the tracks.

Even if the take out was drop to 10 percent, other tracks would follow and we would be back at square one again. Older player such as my friend leave in a dream world and not looking at modern times, we can't live in the past but look forward. I am sick of people looking at the past, we must look forward to improve things and get competitive with the rest of the country. How they do it, it will be interesting, I don't have the answer. I guess, nobody does.

Even if California goes to 10 or 15 percent , drop to a style of betting Kentucky has gone to, I can't see our game out here ever recovering to make it profitable for the player or the owner. Out here, most owners lose their shirt unless they have a very good horse.

So as I see it, there will be 1 or 2 tracks survive and close down the rest.

How about eliminating state and local taxes on winning wagers placed in teh state of california? That would keep the home state's population from straying too far. MONMOUTH is the one that is doomed, unless you can triple the population of New Jersey. Six-figure betting pools are what drives the big tracks, not purse structure or takeout. Laurel tried its 10 percent thing and failed horribly.

[Igeteven]

How about eliminating state and local taxes on winning wagers placed in teh state of california? That would keep the home state's population from straying too far. MONMOUTH is the one that is doomed, unless you can triple the population of New Jersey. Six-figure betting pools are what drives the big tracks, not purse structure or takeout. Laurel tried its 10 percent thing and failed horribly.


In this State, everyone in Governement has their hands out

Spend is their game

[ClassTrumpsSpeed]

Iam going to the next CHRB meeting at Santa Anita, I will be speaking for five minutes and laying out a plan.

One solution is to make the Indian casinos pay a curtain percentage of gaming revenue to the State that can go directly to purses for horse racing.

I still think eliminating state and local taxes on gambling winnings for bets placed in the state is the best way to avoid the problem of money flying to other states. The feds should do it too for bets placed in the US, and then offshore wouldn't be a threat.

If you want to bring the sport to the mases, sponsor computer terminals in bars and restaurants where people can wager online, through their own accounts, and watch the races privately (no license required since it's user-driven).

Personally, however, I like the sport the way it is. Things are as they are for many reasons, most of which are fueled by nature. Embracing that nature (captive degenerate audience, etc.) is wiser than trying to change people's minds. Lower takeout has been tried, and its only plus would be hurting the rebated whales.

[Mr. Nobody]

The cost of keeping horses in training has gone up but purses have not, thus the short fields problem. Del Mar and Santa Anita are still viable because they're a great place to spend a nice day out of doors - Hollywood Park not so much. I think SoCal racing still has a better product than New York because the all weather tracks assure good sized fields for the stakes races, but slot machines at Aqueduct would undoubtedly tip the balance in NY's favor.

[Robert Goren]

I still think eliminating state and local taxes on gambling winnings for bets placed in the state is the best way to avoid the problem of money flying to other states. The feds should do it too for bets placed in the US, and then offshore wouldn't be a threat.

If you want to bring the sport to the mases, sponsor computer terminals in bars and restaurants where people can wager online, through their own accounts, and watch the races privately (no license required since it's user-driven).

Personally, however, I like the sport the way it is. Things are as they are for many reasons, most of which are fueled by nature. Embracing that nature (captive degenerate audience, etc.) is wiser than trying to change people's minds. Lower takeout has been tried, and its only plus would be hurting the rebated whales.When has lower takeouts been tried?

[breezing]

In this State, everyone in Governement has their hands out

Spend is their game

the same can be said for the general population of the state.

[Igeteven]

When has lower takeouts been tried?

That is only one of the problems out here, there are four or five major problems to be solved

[DJofSD]

When has lower takeouts been tried?
No. Matter of fact, they raised the rates for the Q horses at Los Alamitos.

[Igeteven]

No. Matter of fact, they raised the rates for the Q horses at Los Alamitos.


everytime they raise the take out, the handle goes down

[Robert Goren]

That is only one of the problems out here, there are four or five major problems to be solved It is number one by about 15 lengths. Attacking any of the rest will not help anything till they get takeout right.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Iam going to the next CHRB meeting at Santa Anita, I will be speaking for five minutes and laying out a plan.
...

Please tell me that they've started broadcasting these meetings again.

[Deepsix]

Boy would I love to watch Igeteven give his 5 min presentation on how to save California racing. I'm thinking he has ideas that none of them CHRB people have even thought of.

[Igeteven]

Boy would I love to watch Igeteven give his 5 min presentation on how to save California racing. I'm thinking he has ideas that none of them CHRB people have even thought of.


I’m going, I want you to show up, after me say something.. all you do is complain, do something for a change instead of blasting everyone.

What I see is this, you are a chicken hawk, all talk, no play

[rwwupl]

Please tell me that they've started broadcasting these meetings again.

The CHRB has excepted applications for the renewal of the broadcast... they are evaluating. If accepted, the broadcast will be clearer, reach further, and be more professional than ever before.

rwwupl

[JustRalph]

why should horse racing be any different than the rest of the state?

[Deepsix]

Lester, if the CHRB gives you a 5 min. presentation on how to save California racing then the CHRB is simply wasting precious meeting time. Do you actually believe that the many issues you continually harp/rant about aren't already known to these people.

IMO, sometimes a person needs to know when they are getting involved in issues far beyond their area of expertise. Your comments here on the PA board are one thing, but I hope you realize that they don't belong in the CHRB meeting. As the CHRB stated at Thursday's meeting when addressing MID; these are complex issues and they aren't easily resolved.

[fmolf]

Lester, if the CHRB gives you a 5 min. presentation on how to save California racing then the CHRB is simply wasting precious meeting time. Do you actually believe that the many issues you continually harp/rant about aren't already known to these people.

IMO, sometimes a person needs to know when they are getting involved in issues far beyond their area of expertise. Your comments here on the PA board are one thing, but I hope you realize that they don't belong in the CHRB meeting. As the CHRB stated at Thursday's meeting when addressing MID; these are complex issues and they aren't easily resolved.
first....polytrcks do not work in hot climates.they were designed and play well in cooler damper climates like England.....Canada......Kentucky......Chicago....e tc...etc......next lowering takeout without improving the product will not work.Keep an eye on the handle at monmouth it will shatter last years handle and hopefully set a new business model for the way tracks conduct business.I hope my home tracks on the nyra circuit are paying attention.New Jersey is stealing money and horses from the nyra circuit.More and more tracks need to go to shorter race weeks with less races per day to keep field size up and offer the public some races with some value in them!..NY..and calif... are a joke a procession of 5/6 horse fields with 4/5 favorites...who can bet that crap?I went to Belmont today and wagered twice as much on monmouth as i did on the live races at belmont!

[magwell]

I was at Calder Saturday and everybody was betting Monmouth.....:cool:

[Stillriledup]

Lester, if the CHRB gives you a 5 min. presentation on how to save California racing then the CHRB is simply wasting precious meeting time. Do you actually believe that the many issues you continually harp/rant about aren't already known to these people.

IMO, sometimes a person needs to know when they are getting involved in issues far beyond their area of expertise. Your comments here on the PA board are one thing, but I hope you realize that they don't belong in the CHRB meeting. As the CHRB stated at Thursday's meeting when addressing MID; these are complex issues and they aren't easily resolved.

Them THINKING about what Lester is saying and DOING what Lester is suggesting are two different things.

Go LES!

[Igeteven]

I was at Calder Saturday and everybody was betting Monmouth.....:cool:

I at Hollywood Park and playing Churchill Downs. I didn't even place a bet at HP

[Igeteven]

Them THINKING about what Lester is saying and DOING what Lester is suggesting are two different things.

Go LES!

We all need to make are present felt, how else can we make a difference.

[Igeteven]

Lester, if the CHRB gives you a 5 min. presentation on how to save California racing then the CHRB is simply wasting precious meeting time. Do you actually believe that the many issues you continually harp/rant about aren't already known to these people.

IMO, sometimes a person needs to know when they are getting involved in issues far beyond their area of expertise. Your comments here on the PA board are one thing, but I hope you realize that they don't belong in the CHRB meeting. As the CHRB stated at Thursday's meeting when addressing MID; these are complex issues and they aren't easily resolved.

I spent 8 years in the military, I don't like politicians, I blast right ahead and complete the mission. Some people are going to get their butt kick in, however, it is only way that will save the game here in California.

[Deepsix]

Fortunately Lester said he'll make his presentation at the next CHRB meeting at Santa Anita. The next meeting at SA is scheduled for mid October. At least there is sufficient time for the CHRB to prepare for Lester's presentation.

[Igeteven]

Fortunately Lester said he'll make his presentation at the next CHRB meeting at Santa Anita. The next meeting at SA is scheduled for mid October. At least there is sufficient time for the CHRB to prepare for Lester's presentation.

You are right on that one, no doubt about it.

hope you are there

Lester