Seabiscuit; The Movie

[thoroughbred]

My wife and I saw the movie, "Seabiscuit" this afternoon.

It was so good, so well done, so moving, that it is difficult for me to find the right words to let you all know how great the film is.

What's also clear is that it will apeal strongly to the general public, not just horse racing fans.

Don't let anything interfere with your experiencing it!

[Dave Schwartz]

TBred,

My wife and I saw the movie yesterday and I agree with your assessment completely.

This is a Grade-A movie.

What amazed me was the percentage of people that did not leave the theatre until the credits were complete. I'd guess that horse racing still has a lot of appeal to the masses even though attendance is down.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[MikeDee]

We saw the move to and really liked it. I think that many of the people there, were there just to enjoy a good movie.

I don't really think that the movie will bring that many more people into the sport.

[superfecta]

Saw that it has grossed over 20 mil this weekend.Will do good repeat business and word of mouth.I think it has good Oscar potential.Cinematography should win for sure.And there is so much left in the book,it should be no problem to make another movie.The life story of Woolf and the jockeys at that time would be good to see(in case any aspiring screenwriters are out there.)S**T Godzilla would be something to see on screen.

[dav4463]

I'm ready for a movie about Manowar now ! Then maybe Secretariat ? I enjoyed the movie. The theater was almost full on a Sunday afternoon in Dallas which says a lot. Everybody on the way out seemed to have enjoyed the film.

[Zaf]

Loved it :) !!!

ZAFONIC

[Speed Figure]

The movie was great! I love the radio guy....:D

[dav4463]

Saw the A&E special on Seabiscuit tonight. It was also very good. It makes you long for the days when horseracing was the #1 sport in America.

[Zaf]

Seabiscuit PP's


http://www.horsehats.com/SEABISCUIT%20pp.pdf

ZAFONIC

[Storm Cadet]

Thats GREAT stuff...best thing I've seen on this board in weeks!

Look at all those races, can you imagine how much $$$in earnings he would have in todays money races??? I'm going to keep this printout-a keeper for sure!

Where on earth did you get this?

And Andy Beyer should try to go back and put some figs on those races !!!

Great job.

[Zaf]

I found the link on the Derby List Message Board.

I found it quite interesting. Did you notice how many times he ran on just 3 days rest early in his carreer. He really was abused in the beginning.

ZAFONIC

[keilan]

A little nostalgia for all my Canadian cousins at the PA's site. Back in the mid 30's Red Pollard was a home-town hero. Pollard was an Edmonton lad and everyone from around here followed Seabiscuit and Red's career.

Hey ffasttt another Edmonton connection. Good post and very interesting Zafonic.

[PaceAdvantage]

Saw the movie Monday night. Sat a bit too close to the screen...LOL

It WAS awesome!! Most of the racing scenes were VERY intense.

At 2:20, it is a long movie, BUT, I had NO IDEA it was that long until I left the theater and looked at my watch. THAT'S when you know it's a good movie!!! LOL

[Zaf]

Exactly PA !!! I went to the 10:05 PM showing on Sunday Night.
When I left the theather I was shocked to see that it was 12:30 on my watch. I enjoyed it so much I lost all concept of time.

Great Movie, I'm going back again this week !

ZAFONIC

[blind squirrel]

Originally posted by zafonic
Seabiscuit PP's


http://www.horsehats.com/SEABISCUIT%20pp.pdf

ZAFONIC

when i read the book,i thought i read that SEABISCUIT
broke his maiden in his 17th start.according to these PP'S
he won in his 18th start.did he get his first win by a DQ{he
finished 2nd in 17th}.i don't remember reading that and i
gave book to someone else to read.by the way,i've cashed
several decent tickets by not dismissing a horse that was
0-10 or 0-11.......i don't give up on horses,or people,you
just never know.

[LutherCalvin]

Being a horseracing fan I was predisposed to enjoy the movie and did so. The racing scenes were fantastic, the color was vivid, and Randy Newman's musical score was thrilling. Jeff Bridges' performance was outstanding as well. The voice over and scenes from the Depression era made it feel like a PBS production. The intersection of the lives of owner, trainer, and jockeys with the best horse of the generation was a joy to watch. Best feel good movie of the year!

[DJofSD]

I saw the movie on DMR's dark day, midafternoon screening. The theater was at least 2/3's full. And lots of families with children. Moderate applause at the end.

In a sense, this movie is what Disney movies used to be.

I still rank "Babe" as one of the best but this one is very close. Definitely on my list of movies to buy when it comes out on DVD.

One thing in the movie I have yet seen discussed is the 'look of the eagle' when Smith the first time he saw the horse. I don't recall reading that in the book. Perhaps it was an element of license taken in making the movie. But nonetheless, any time you can find a horse that has that aspect to it - buy it or bet it, which ever circumstance you find yourself in at the time!

DJofSD

[takeout]

I found it interesting that they put the "Previously owned and trained bys" in there.

[reckless]

Hi everyone:

I loved Seabiscuit, the movie, too!!

When I bought my ticket I asked what screen the Seabiscuit movie was being shown. The ticket seller pointed over her shoulder, without looking up to me and said: 'there's a line over there'.

I wasn't familiar with the theatre since it was located in another town from where I lived. I walked across the crowded room and went to the back of the line as I was told <s>. Still not sure if I was on the correct line, I was about to return to the ticket booth when I noticed something that kept me in place: the people on this line had lots of gray hair and were a very quiet bunch. Plus, the few earrings I saw where worn only by the women, believe it or not.

I knew then I was on the right line as this crowd didn't seem the type to see 'Legally Blonde 2'.

I loved Randy Newman's music the best, very lyrical, along the lines of 'The Natural'. Jeff Bridges was his usual top-shelf best, a vastly under-rated actor, although I won't compare him to Olivier. Bridges rarely does a bad movie and he was a natural as Charles Howard.

I guess Tobey Maguire was good as Red Pollard, but he was 'too cute' for a man who was beaten up and down on his luck as Pollard was.

William Macy was great as the disc jockey; does anyone know if such a person existed during that time?

'Phar Lap' remains my all-time favorite horse-themed movie, but Seabiscuit exceeded my high expectations.

[PaceAdvantage]

As far as I've read, the Macy character was based on pure imagination...

[Observer]

I heard on one of "The Making of" shows that Macy's charater was created in order to help condense the movie.

[delayjf]

With all due respcet to Randy Nueman, my only dissappointment with the Movie was the soundtrack. In the trailers for the film the background music was from the movie "Rudy" (Notre Dame football story), anyway I have always loved that sound track and as a horseracing fan always felt that it also captured the feel of a horse race. If you were to listen to the soundtrack its as if it were written with a horses stride in mind. Other themes from the soundtrack would have fit in nicely with the mood and the scenery. Its hard to describe, but again, if you listened to the soundtrack I think you might agree. This movie should at least win a oscar for cinematography.

[Valuist]

So who will get the nomination for Best Actor between Bridges and Macguire? I rate Bridges a slight edge since he hasn't won one and the Academy probably figures Mcguire will have other chances in the future, although I thought he did a good job of playing Pollard. He didn't look overmatched, like most actors who play athletes in sports movies do.

How about a movie about Shifty Sheik, who went from claiming races to run 2nd to the mighty Slew Of Gold. Probably could get a major drug company like Merck or Pfizer to sponsor it.

[Bob Harris]

Originally posted by Dave Schwartz
TBred,

My wife and I saw the movie yesterday and I agree with your assessment completely.

This is a Grade-A movie.

What amazed me was the percentage of people that did not leave the theatre until the credits were complete. I'd guess that horse racing still has a lot of appeal to the masses even though attendance is down.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Oh, fess up Schwartz! You didn't leave the movie until after the credits for the same reason I didn't...you didn't want anyone seeing your eyes all red and watery. You can only use that "allergies" excuse so long!! <g>

Bob

[SandyE]

That's so true about the alergie eyes bit.:D
TMC had the Shirley Temple version which I've never thought as being Seabiscuits story. There are too many horses to name that would qualafy having a movie made about their racing career.
Now I've got to go see the movie and I want the DVD when it comes out.

[Milleruszk]

Valuist.......Thanks for the memory of Shifty Sheik. I believe the late Oscar Barrera was the trainer. Right?

[Observer]

Yes, Oscar Barrera was the trainer of Shifty Sheik.

[jotb]

Hello All.

I read the book this week ( finished less than 3 day's, just could not put the book down) and just found the book to be a great read. Tonight I decided to go watch this movie and boy was I disappointed. I could not wait till it was over. The movie industry once again failed when it comes to horse racing. Things that they should have put in the movie they left out. The gritty stuff around the racetrack is what they need more of. I'm still trying to figure out who the main character was in the movie. The name of the movie was Seabiscuit and they should have just focused mainly on the horse. Maybe I should not have read the book.

Joe

[Dave Schwartz]

Joe,

I decided to see the movie first. That way I'd get to enjoy the movie and love th ebook even more.

BTW, Costo's got the book for $9.84.

Dave

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by jotb
Tonight I decided to go watch this movie and boy was I disappointed. I could not wait till it was over. The movie industry once again failed when it comes to horse racing. Joe

If they would have followed the book you would still be watching the movie............... they can't make them 50 hours long......

[Amazin]

Jotb said"The name of the movie was Seabiscuit and they should have just focused mainly on the horse. "

Just saw the movie this afternoon and I also lost track of the time,meaning good movie.But Jotb,your comments hints that you may have missed the main reason this movie was very good.All the members of the Seabiscuit saga,Jockey,trainer,owners and Seabiscuit himself were all coming out of difficult and unfortunate circumstances.That was their common bond.Their collective strength helped them overcome their personal obstacles in life.This winning spirit of man and beast is what this movie was all about and why it is a very good movie. It's quite a bit more than just a movie about a racehorse.

[jotb]

Hello Amazin

I understand that! I just feel when they make horse racing movies, they leave out what should be important and interesting to race fans or possible race fans.

You talk to someone that really does not have a clue about the game and explain what is behind the scenes and all of a sudden you can actually notice the person has an immediate interest.

The movie was much different than the book and yes, I understand that book's should be better than a movie but some parts of the movie should have been left out and the movie should have used part of the book that would have been of interest. For instance, Pollard's fall on the horse that he breezed (which was in the movie), was not as bad as the spill he had on one of Howard's horses in a race. The movie has Pollard returning to the track from the hospital in better shape than he really was in . They made him this pretty boy jock which he definately was not. He had aged tremendously and lost a ton of weight ( I believe he was 83 pounds) while in the hospital and looked older than trainer Smith.

In the movie trainer Smith was portrayed as this timid man when in reality he was just the opposite. He hardly ever smiled and had to constantly stay away from the reporters and clocker's while working Seabiscuit. For example, in the movie the Biscuit with Pollard in the saddle is shown working in the middle of the night but the reason was never explained in the movie so this leaves a potential fan thinking horses generally breeze late at night which is not true.

I feel they should have went into detail about Seabiscuit's dislike for the slop and his constant battles with soreness. Seabiscuit was a low bottom claimer and brought up the rear early in his carreer before Smith took the helm. Dont's forget his previous trainer was Fitzsimmons who was one of the most competent trainer's around at the time.

Anyway, horse racing movies for the most part, are boring and maybe this is because I have followed the sport for thirty years and view the sport in a different light. I just feel if the industries main goal is to retrieve the newcomer, it must show the potential fan the hard core part of the industry. To be perfectly honest with you, the movie should have been about Red Pollard and his life story rather than Seabiscuit. The general public does not see the jockey as an athlete but pound for pound they are the strongest athletes in all of sports. Most jockeys are under constant battle with weight and work in the industry, is all year round (not like other sports) and the jock gives much more than he or she takes. Their lives are on the line each day whether it be in a race, workout, or just sitting in the gate. Angel Cordero was one of the greatest rider's in the sport but the man had more screws in him than a hardware store but he still continued to work through the pain and setbacks during his career. I only wish that I had the chance or ability to make a horse racing film. I'm sure I would have the people in the movie house sitting on the edge of their seats with their hearts racing faster than horses can run. Maybe next lifetime!

Joe

[Amazin]

Jotb

I never read the book,so I wasn't dissapointed in that way. But I agree with you that Hollywood does not care about accuracy when it comes to selling a movie to the public. Looking at the PP's Zafonic supplied,I see I was mislead about Seabiscuit's return to the races off his injury.Apparently he lost his first 2 starts off his layoff and did not enter the SA Derby until his 4th start off the layoff.The movie ends with him returning off the layoff and winning the SA derby. They skip the mediocre stuff.The true life scenario of this champion would not have been as dramatic as the adjustments they made in the movie. If you know that,it does spoil the effect. So fortunately for me,I didn't read the book.

[jotb]

Originally posted by Amazin
Jotb

I never read the book,so I wasn't dissapointed in that way. But I agree with you that Hollywood does not care about accuracy when it comes to selling a movie to the public. Looking at the PP's Zafonic supplied,I see I was mislead about Seabiscuit's return to the races off his injury.Apparently he lost his first 2 starts off his layoff and did not enter the SA Derby until his 4th start off the layoff.The movie ends with him returning off the layoff and winning the SA derby. They skip the mediocre stuff.The true life scenario of this champion would not have been as dramatic as the adjustments they made in the movie. If you know that,it does spoil the effect. So fortunately for me,I didn't read the book.

Hello Amazin:

I would not steer you wrong here, please read the book. It was an excellent read. I ran through that book like STK horses run a half in 44 flat. I could not put it down that's how good the book was. You know when you watch a movie and you don't want it to end, well the same with this book.

Jotb

[SandyE]

I thought the ending of the movie was a bit strange. Why didn't they show the last run in of the race? Or the winners circle for that matter? Pollard had two accidents the one in a race and the morning workout. And what's up with that rope accross the track instead of the webbing? I'm talking about the match race against the Admiral. I read an earlier rendition of Seabiscuit, even the gate didn't look quite the way they did back then. Also you saw riders with chin straps. Helmets didn't come out until the late 50's or 60's. Did they have goggles back then? I've forgotten a bit of my racing history. Probably could go to second running to find out the facts. At least they showed the team of horses hitched to the gate, instead of a tractor. That's one of the things I had to remind myself about that alot of these period movies don't have the right equipment from the 30's for examle. I thought women back in that time frame were dresses when they went to places like that. Saw the movie on Saturday and actually loved it despite some techinical flaws. They left out the walk up start to the webbed barrier.

[Observer]

Originally posted by jotb
In the movie trainer Smith was portrayed as this timid man when in reality he was just the opposite. He hardly ever smiled and had to constantly stay away from the reporters and clocker's while working Seabiscuit. For example, in the movie the Biscuit with Pollard in the saddle is shown working in the middle of the night but the reason was never explained in the movie so this leaves a potential fan thinking horses generally breeze late at night which is not true.

Gotta disagree with you on a few points. I never felt Smith was a timid man while watching the movie. And I felt the movie did portray him as someone who hardly smiled. Though he was there for some press conferences, he never took center stage .. he always stood back, and the movie did give a clear impression that he didn't like all the hoopla .. remember when he got angry about the shoes??

Originally posted by jotb
Dont's forget his previous trainer was Fitzsimmons who was one of the most competent trainer's around at the time.

They did say this in the movie, as an actor protraying Fitzsimmons said to get rid of Seabiscuit. This was after they showed him being carted off from his paddock on the breeding farm .. Claiborne, was it??? During this scene, they also went into detail about how despite the pedigree, he was unwanted.

Originally posted by jotb
I just feel if the industries main goal is to retrieve the newcomer, it must show the potential fan the hard core part of the industry. To be perfectly honest with you, the movie should have been about Red Pollard and his life story rather than Seabiscuit.

Despite the heavy advertising and promotion during racing shows, this movie was not done by the racing industry, and I don't think the intention of this movie being done was to lure more people into racing. It was done because the book was a huge success, and someone thought it could be a big box office draw, as well.

Had this movie been done about Red Pollard, it would not have been the success it has been. Though people may not have known the story of Seabiscuit .. it's amazing how many people had known the name Seabiscuit [before the book and movie].

But, the bottom line is, as already mentioned by Amazin, the story is about how they all come together through this horse .. while I was a bit surprised how the movie ended .. I do think it was perfect .. why the need to go any farther??

And with all that said, I have to say .. my "little problems" with the movie do still bug me. Now, again, I'm not talking about script, and I'm not being as nit-picky as goggles, gates, women's clothes or safety rails ... but it was enough to question how things like what I noticed could get through with horse- and racing-knowledgeable people working on the film. But, I have come to the conclusion that it wasn't those people in the editing room.

[SandyE]

That's because of track times he set and also Seabiscuit is in the record book. Other people have written about the horse, have you checked out second running? Or even about.com's racing site? One of the sites have a sound bite that is attached with actual footage of the matchrace. Back in the 70's I read a book that had a blurb about the horse. Plus there's the statue that stands outside of the museum. Also there's a picture of him haging up at Monmouth Park after did he or did he not race there? I'll go check out that bit of info for you and for myself as well. As to equipment if your aware of the what they usued or didn't use back then in racing like the barrier start or the fact they were actually teaching the horse how to start from a walk up instead of just flat footed. The first attempt at a match race fell through. In fact wasn't there a third horse in the race? Which was the Pimlico special by the way.

[SandyE]

Would have been nice if I had included the url for second running eh? lol How wicked of me eh? Okay okay here it is and by the by there are aticles there dealing with other horses plus the main reason for the site.

http://www.secondrunning.com

Lot's of info about racing history, and the person who started the website is also credited with the creation of the helmet that Jockeys' and others wear today. But you'll find that out after you go visit the reason why.

[Observer]

Originally posted by SandyE
That's because of track times he set and also Seabiscuit is in the record book. ...

SandyE .. excuse my ignorance .. I'm a bit tired today .. I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to explain here. What's because of track times he set and being in the record book??

Originally posted by jotb
... For example, in the movie the Biscuit with Pollard in the saddle is shown working in the middle of the night but the reason was never explained in the movie so this leaves a potential fan thinking horses generally breeze late at night which is not true. ...

I don't agree with this. I feel they did explain this and make it clear this was not normal procedure. There were a couple of scenes with works in the dark, and they did explain the reasons for the works, and they certainly did make it clear, definitely for the full work around the track in the dark, that they probably weren't supposed to be there.

[SandyE]

posted but it's worth reposting.


http://www.equibase.com/special/Seabiscuitlifetimepp.pdf

[SandyE]

a list of racings' greatest including Seabiscuit. There's another site which I can't remember that has quite a bit of information on it. I thought it was on the about.com site, so for you who want to become more familiar with horses from the past. Here's some not all, but once there you'll be able to find others from over seas which were just as thrilling as our own American heros.

http://www.thoroughbredchampions.com/gallery/index.htm