Mine That Bird and Lukas

[Roy C]

Being shipped to Wayne in a strange move

[sonnyp]

Being shipped to Wayne in a strange move


you mean d wayne didn't hook the 2 horse trailer to his pickup and drive out to pick him up ?

oh i forrgot ! he does that only for marylou whitney.

[slew101]

that's the last thing this horse needs is Lukas.

[horses721]

that's the last thing this horse needs is Lukas.

I totally agree. Despite getting many high priced horses, he still has trouble finding the winners circle, and when he does, it is usually in claiming races. 15 years ago it might have been a good idea but not today.

[Mineshaft]

that's the last thing this horse needs is Lukas.





Exactly...

[Mineshaft]

Owner said he hasnt breezed at all yet but should be ready to run in 45-60 days. WTF???


Thats all i needed to know about these guys.

[Wickel]

Being shipped to Wayne in a strange move

What's your source? Wonder why Chip W. was dumped.

[sonnyp]

What's your source? Wonder why Chip W. was dumped.


you don't think "the coach" would ever do any recruiting......do you ?

[Spendabuck85]

What's your source? Wonder why Chip W. was dumped.
http://www.drf.com/news/article/113066.html

[Wickel]

Thanks for the link. Back to SunRay Downs and the quarter horses for poor ol' Chip.

[Hanover1]

Owners figure a has been is going to bring this horse around :confused: . His modus will be to drill him hard, as is his pattern. Not knowing what this horses issues are is one thing, but usually patience is required to bring one back around (attn SA/RA watchers). Not much can be done with a corked horse however......
Hope he stays out of the grandstands if drawing outside :rolleyes:

[Stillriledup]

Embarrassing trainer change.

[jognlope]

Just a footnote on Lukas supposed training of Dash for Cash QH:

"D. Wayne Lukas never trained this horse," Phillips said flatly. "Bubba Cascio was the only man who ever trained him. Lukas ran him for Bubba. We had him in California, and Bubba wasn't there—we shipped him out there to run and we put him in Lukas' barn. But this horse was made by Bubba—hell, you could have trained the horse as far as that goes. You'd have to had to saddle him, that's all it amounted to. I don't mean to take anything away from Wayne Lukas —he's a great trainer—but hadn't anybody ever trained this horse but Bubba. Cascio deserves all the credit."

[sandpit]

Chip was hanging around with Lukas at CD Derby week, at least in the mornings on the backside...

[BluegrassProf]

that's the last thing this horse needs is Lukas.Embarrassing trainer change.Agreed. x about 15,000.

[Stillriledup]

Agreed. x about 15,000.

Exactly.

The Kentucky Derby winner needs a trainer, not a publicist.

[Show Me the Wire]

Maybe no other "name" trainer wanted the headache.

[Kimsus]

Owner said he hasnt breezed at all yet but should be ready to run in 45-60 days. WTF???


Thats all i needed to know about these guys.

Being that Mine that Bird is a gelding, I worry that he is in the wrong hands with the trainer switch. Lukas has never been known as a Trainer that could stretch out a horse's career. It was pretty much a downward slide for Funny Cide after his Preakness and yes he won some races after that but he was in good hands under Tagg. Under Lukas who knows what type of campaign the former derby winner will be under, one can only guess how much Lukas will go to the well to re-establish himself in the game with this new find.

[RockHardTen1985]

that's the last thing this horse needs is Lukas.


MTB sucks even Wayne can't mess him up anymore.

[samyn on the green]

Lukas trained Azeri after she retired and was returned to training. He got her beat a few times but the campaign was much more challenging than what DeSoreaux engaged in. All in all I thought he did a good job with Azeri; these are race horses and not an old comic book collection hidden in the attic. At least lukas treats his horses like horses and races them, most trainers these days hide them away.

[letswastemoney]

I would love for Lukas to train some of the bigger stars we have in racing today...they would knock heads against each other all year and we'd watch maybe the greatest races ever!

[Robert Goren]

I would love for Lukas to train some of the bigger stars we have in racing today...they would knock heads against each other all year and we'd watch maybe the greatest races ever! HUH

[Robert Goren]

This has got to be in the running for the worst idea of the year.;)

[letswastemoney]

This has got to be in the running for the worst idea of the year.;)
I thought it was wonderful to see Azeri in the BC Classic in 2004. If he had all those top horses, we'd be treated to uber quality races all year!

[Kimsus]

I would love for Lukas to train some of the bigger stars we have in racing today...they would knock heads against each other all year and we'd watch maybe the greatest races ever!

I understand what you are saying, but you can't be serious. The game has past Lukas, he did some great things early in his career, but I can count on 2 hands the amount of trainers I would rather see training at the moment.

[Stevie Belmont]

I felt bad for Azeri. I felt she should have been afforded the chance to go out a champion in the Distaff, instead of being put in the impossible position of trying to defeat Ghostzapper in the Classic. She had no chace to beat him—nor did anyone else that day.

[wisconsin]

So much anti-Lukas sentiment. If anyone would have read the article, they could not have missed the fact that the owner and Lukas go back 35 years. Sorry, but Lukas is old school. Why does everyone jump on the guy? I'm appalled that the so-called fans of today actual like the pussification of today's racing. Mine that Bird is a gelding, not going to stud, and oh my God, they might actually race him?

[Nikki1997]

I felt bad for Azeri. I felt she should have been afforded the chance to go out a champion in the Distaff, instead of being put in the impossible position of trying to defeat Ghostzapper in the Classic. She had no chace to beat him—nor did anyone else that day.

I felt bad for Azeri, too. A favorite horse of mine, she went to Lukas on the down side of her career. Lukas and Paulsen compromised her by putting her in the BCC, which was not her best distance. I'm glad there are those who felt Azeri's performance was exciting. Seems to me one gives their horse a viable chance to be successful in a race. These two never gave Azeri a thought when they spotted her the way they did. I felt and will always feel it was despicable to use her as some ego boosting vehicle, which is what her time with DWL really was. She deserved more than that. Way more than that.

[Kimsus]

I felt bad for Azeri. I felt she should have been afforded the chance to go out a champion in the Distaff, instead of being put in the impossible position of trying to defeat Ghostzapper in the Classic. She had no chace to beat him—nor did anyone else that day.

You know I have to disagree with this one, in many ways this mirrors the debate we are having with Rach and Zen. She pretty much had nothing else to prove in the distaff division, and only had one more mountain to climb beating males. Longshot as it was, I certainly would find it hard to blame Lukas on this one, infact he did a pretty decent job with her overall.

[Wickel]

Here's a local story from Sure Bet Racing News website, based in Ruidoso.



www.surebetracingnews.com (http://www.surebetracingnews.com)

[Stevie Belmont]

She had a chance to be a 2 time Breeder's Cup Distaff champion and face off against Ashado—another grand champion that year. And that would have been a great race.

They opted to shoot for the stars and try to beat Ghostzapper, Roses In May and Pleasntly Perfect instead. Yea good call.

Instead of going out a winner—she went out off the board





You know I have to disagree with this one, in many ways this mirrors the debate we are having with Rach and Zen. She pretty much had nothing else to prove in the distaff division, and only had one more mountain to climb beating males. Longshot as it was, I certainly would find it hard to blame Lukas on this one, infact he did a pretty decent job with her overall.

[ghostyapper]

You know I have to disagree with this one, in many ways this mirrors the debate we are having with Rach and Zen. She pretty much had nothing else to prove in the distaff division, and only had one more mountain to climb beating males. Longshot as it was, I certainly would find it hard to blame Lukas on this one, infact he did a pretty decent job with her overall.

That distaff field was a very good field and it would have been a major accomplishment had azeri won that race to close out her career. The 04 classic field was absolutely stacked. I don't think Azeri would have had a chance against that field in her prime, let alone at the end of her 6yo season.

I always wanted to see the rubber match between her and sightseek but it never happened.

[Kimsus]

That distaff field was a very good field and it would have been a major accomplishment had azeri won that race to close out her career. The 04 classic field was absolutely stacked. I don't think Azeri would have had a chance against that field in her prime, let alone at the end of her 6yo season.

I always wanted to see the rubber match between her and sightseek but it never happened.

If I remember correctly Sightseek was at her best at Belmont where she excelled with the 1 turn route, I don't think she was up to Azeri unless it was at her favorite track. I actually think Azeri's best year was her last, the Apple Blossom under Lukas was one of her best races. What he did with her was actually quite remarkable, it was once thought by some she had soured but this was far from the case.

[ghostyapper]

If I remember correctly Sightseek was at her best at Belmont where she excelled with the 1 turn route, I don't think she was up to Azeri unless it was at her favorite track. I actually think Azeri's best year was her last, the Apple Blossom under Lukas was one of her best races. What he did with her was actually quite remarkable, it was once thought by some she had soured but this was far from the case.

Azeri was better but Sightseek was not only a belmont or 1 turn star. She ran some great races at saratoga too, including her loss to azeri

[Kimsus]

Azeri was better but Sightseek was not only a belmont or 1 turn star. She ran some great races at saratoga too, including her loss to azeri

Yep, no argument there. But I'd take her at Belmont against Azeri, Summer Colony, Dancethruthedawn and the rest that were racing at about that time. Notice I didn't need to look that up, the knowledge is in my head not on some website. :D

[Indulto]

According to the article, Blach and Lukas have been friends for years. Why didn't Lukas get the horse in the first place considering they bought MTB knowing he would be eligible for the Derby?

It would be interesting to know whose decision it was to run him in the West Virginia Derby rather than the Haskell, and later in the BC after two previous flops on Pro-Ride and the myectomy non-recovery that kept him out of the Travers.

Was the BC a key race for trainer switches or was that only for the “Bird” brains? ;)

[Dahoss9698]

You know I have to disagree with this one, in many ways this mirrors the debate we are having with Rach and Zen. She pretty much had nothing else to prove in the distaff division, and only had one more mountain to climb beating males. Longshot as it was, I certainly would find it hard to blame Lukas on this one, infact he did a pretty decent job with her overall.

I actually agree. The Met Mile was a curious spot, but other than that, I thought they campaigned her beautifully.

Lukas is many things and he has lost a step. But he races his horses. Sometimes it's to their detriment, but it's better than keeping them in the barn. Azeri spent the majority of her career running in unambitious spots. When Lukas got creative, we got a good idea of how good she really was.

[joanied]

She had a chance to be a 2 time Breeder's Cup Distaff champion and face off against Ashado—another grand champion that year. And that would have been a great race.

They opted to shoot for the stars and try to beat Ghostzapper, Roses In May and Pleasntly Perfect instead. Yea good call.

Instead of going out a winner—she went out off the board

I have to agree with you, Stevie B...I was a huge fan of Azeri...loved her too much...and I was beside myself with anger watching her in that Classic...IMO, it WAS an ego trip...they had to have known better, just didn't give a rats a$$!!

[Headbanger]

I felt bad for Azeri, too. A favorite horse of mine, she went to Lukas on the down side of her career. Lukas and Paulsen compromised her by putting her in the BCC, which was not her best distance. I'm glad there are those who felt Azeri's performance was exciting. Seems to me one gives their horse a viable chance to be successful in a race. These two never gave Azeri a thought when they spotted her the way they did. I felt and will always feel it was despicable to use her as some ego boosting vehicle, which is what her time with DWL really was. She deserved more than that. Way more than that.

Seriously??? Lukas did what people wanted to see earlier in her career which was to truly challenge the horse. Wayne Lukas, although he got her beat a few times was a blessing to Azeri, in fact, and it was great to see them put her in the Classic, because it was in that Classic that we got to see that she was a really good horse beating out Japanese Star Personal Rush, Birdstone, Dynever, and Funny Cide that year. Let's be realistic, she showed me more by running very well with a tough campaign than she showed while beating up on the same old California horses. And that is ridiculous that you claim she was an ego boosting vehicle. She was a RACEHORSE, and a really good one at that, and they were looking to show us just how good she was and giving us her legacy as a great race mare which is what happened because of her efforts. What, go to the distaff and beat the decidedly mediocre Ashado by 5 lengths? Whoopdie fvcking doo, we have Zenyatta for that.

[Fager Fan]

I have to agree with you, Stevie B...I was a huge fan of Azeri...loved her too much...and I was beside myself with anger watching her in that Classic...IMO, it WAS an ego trip...they had to have known better, just didn't give a rats a$$!!

Azeri did more for her reputation running in the Classic than she did the entire time she was with Laura S. If you watched in anger, your anger was misplaced. You should've been pleased, and pleased with the result.

[Trotman]

IMO Lukas is old news and MTB is more than done. That said it's probably better to get the news that the horse is done from Lukas than Chip. Lukas has still burned through more owners money on yearlings with his training than anyone. I just wish he would ride off into the sunset rather than show up each Triple Crown year with a horse that has no shot just to show his mug on tv. D Wayne please say BYE,BYE.

[tzipi]

I just wish he would ride off into the sunset rather than show up each Triple Crown year with a horse that has no shot just to show his mug on tv. D Wayne please say BYE,BYE.

Yeah they said longshot Thunder Gulch had no shot too. How'd he do? Charismatic was a longshot joke with no shot,right? Was Grindstone the best lights out horse Lukas entered? So are you saying Dublin who finished 7th was some out of the money horse every race just entered for a "show my face" reason? Just asking because he won the G1 Hopeful at Saratoga. He lost the G1 Arkansas Derby by just a 1/2 length. He ran in the money in his other Graded stakes this year. Sounds like there's some other reason behind the anger towards his horses in the derby.

[Fager Fan]

IMO Lukas is old news and MTB is more than done. That said it's probably better to get the news that the horse is done from Lukas than Chip. Lukas has still burned through more owners money on yearlings with his training than anyone. I just wish he would ride off into the sunset rather than show up each Triple Crown year with a horse that has no shot just to show his mug on tv. D Wayne please say BYE,BYE.

D Wayne will forever be a huge part of racing history. Will there even be two words which mention your name?

The bashing gets old. Leave the man alone unless he does something to be critical about.

[Trotman]

tzipi and fager fan I said old news. I agree he had his time on top and Charismatic was one huge score for me so tzipi there is no anger. But like an old fighter his days are over. Sure he will still come up with the odd big horse and that's all that was meant.

[TJDave]

Just a footnote on Lukas supposed training of Dash for Cash QH:

"D. Wayne Lukas never trained this horse," Phillips said flatly. "Bubba Cascio was the only man who ever trained him. Lukas ran him for Bubba. We had him in California, and Bubba wasn't there—we shipped him out there to run and we put him in Lukas' barn. But this horse was made by Bubba—hell, you could have trained the horse as far as that goes. You'd have to had to saddle him, that's all it amounted to. I don't mean to take anything away from Wayne Lukas —he's a great trainer—but hadn't anybody ever trained this horse but Bubba. Cascio deserves all the credit."


Was recently in Amarillo and toured the AQHA museum. You really have to look hard to find any mention of Lukas. ;)

Really a topflight museum, though. Saw a parade saddle exhibit that blew me away.

[joanied]

Azeri did more for her reputation running in the Classic than she did the entire time she was with Laura S. If you watched in anger, your anger was misplaced. You should've been pleased, and pleased with the result.

You seem to be finding my posts and 'yelling' at me for having an opinion...if you were pleased she got beaten in that Classic...good for you...but don't tell me how I should have felt :faint:

[ghostyapper]

Azeri did more for her reputation running in the Classic than she did the entire time she was with Laura S. If you watched in anger, your anger was misplaced. You should've been pleased, and pleased with the result.

This is insane. She won 14 of 16 races, including the BC distaff in dominating fashion and HOY. One 5th place back 10 lengths against the worlds best does not trump that.

[PaceAdvantage]

This is insane. She won 14 of 16 races, including the BC distaff in dominating fashion and HOY. One 5th place back 10 lengths against the worlds best does not trump that.And herein lies the difference in mindsets.

You do love to throw around that 'insane' word I have noticed.

Give me the trainer that tests his "star" runner against the best of the best, over the trainer that wants to pad the record versus tomato cans, any day.

[WinterTriangle]

Lukas is getting MTB?

I heard thru the grapevine Lukas already has a horse named Dublin, who "has had five races in 12 weeks". If anyone here thinks Dublin has benefitted by "the lukas method", please explain the brilliance.

He needs to fix Dublin before he takes on another project.




Give me the trainer that tests his "star" runner against the best of the best, over the trainer that wants to pad the record versus tomato cans, any day.

Uh-oh.

Looks like this topic is taking the usual (of late) right turn into .........never mind.:bang:

[Nikki1997]

Seriously??? Lukas did what people wanted to see earlier in her career which was to truly challenge the horse. Wayne Lukas, although he got her beat a few times was a blessing to Azeri, in fact, and it was great to see them put her in the Classic, because it was in that Classic that we got to see that she was a really good horse beating out Japanese Star Personal Rush, Birdstone, Dynever, and Funny Cide that year. Let's be realistic, she showed me more by running very well with a tough campaign than she showed while beating up on the same old California horses. And that is ridiculous that you claim she was an ego boosting vehicle. She was a RACEHORSE, and a really good one at that, and they were looking to show us just how good she was and giving us her legacy as a great race mare which is what happened because of her efforts. What, go to the distaff and beat the decidedly mediocre Ashado by 5 lengths? Whoopdie fvcking doo, we have Zenyatta for that.

If this had been tried EARLIER in Azeri's career, instead of later, she might have had a better chance to succeed. The operative point was and still is, EARLIER in her career, instead of LATER.

If you don't think the Lukas/Paulsen team was an overloaded ego train, I can't help ya.

You got a problem with Z? Go find another horse to beat up on. Something that will keep your "entertain me now" meter wide open and running.

[TJDave]

4 Derby wins
5 in the Preakness
4 Belmont wins
18 Breeder's cups
4 Eclipse awards

Anyone here won one of these?

[Trotman]

TJ nobody can ever take away what D. Wayne has done, but what I expressed at the outset was the point, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE LATELY. This is just an approval in my mind, who gives a rats ass what Chip says or does, but D Wayne it makes it legit, come on now. Correct me if I'm wrong D. Wayne has not got any of the many Sheik's money ever for yearlings.

[PaceAdvantage]

What is the big deal. Owners switch trainers all the time, and let's face it, Mine That Bird has done jack since the Derby.

Something tells me there would be some problem with WHOMEVER they had chosen (except of course Bill Mott on the east coast, or Dick Mandella on the west coast...these two can do no wrong in the eyes of most Lukas/Pletcher bashers).

[GARY Z]

Makes sense to have made that move, just witness the success
of Wayne in the Derby and Preakness :bang:


This is a corollary to the crap which happened to Tim Ice...


What do these owners expect when each horse ran their guts out
and weren't sales toppers??


:mad:

[gm10]

Being shipped to Wayne in a strange move

yes that is a strange move
personally I would have liked to see MTB run on the turf - give that horse to Clement, Motion or Mott, and they will probably consider that option in earnest

[Headbanger]

yes that is a strange move
personally I would have liked to see MTB run on the turf - give that horse to Clement, Motion or Mott, and they will probably consider that option in earnest

Usually you run horses on the turf that are bred to handle the turf...which is precisely why I would love to know your reasoning that you would have have liked to have seen Mine that Bird on the grass considering he has no real turf breeding whatsoever.

[gm10]

Usually you run horses on the turf that are bred to handle the turf...which is precisely why I would love to know your reasoning that you would have have liked to have seen Mine that Bird on the grass considering he has no real turf breeding whatsoever.

Who on earth who assume that just because a horse it's bred for dirt it is impossible that it will run better on the turf. In case you didn't know, breeding isn't an exact science. Of course it is not a random activity either, but have you actually seen MTB? To this observer, the way he's built suggests that he could be well suited for the grass.

[gm10]

And herein lies the difference in mindsets.

You do love to throw around that 'insane' word I have noticed.

Give me the trainer that tests his "star" runner against the best of the best, over the trainer that wants to pad the record versus tomato cans, any day.

It's all relative. They beat a similar amount of g1 horses last year.

[horses721]

Yeah they said longshot Thunder Gulch had no shot too. How'd he do? Charismatic was a longshot joke with no shot,right? Was Grindstone the best lights out horse Lukas entered? So are you saying Dublin who finished 7th was some out of the money horse every race just entered for a "show my face" reason? Just asking because he won the G1 Hopeful at Saratoga. He lost the G1 Arkansas Derby by just a 1/2 length. He ran in the money in his other Graded stakes this year. Sounds like there's some other reason behind the anger towards his horses in the derby.
You can remember the few longshots that Lukas surpised with but how many other horses were driven into the ground being placed in races where they didn't belong. Nobody is worse than him when it comes to placing a horse where it belongs. With Lukas, if you break your maiden, your next start will be in a stakes race even if a horse takes 10 races to break it's maiden. I'm sure if you check out his training stats over the last several years, you will find the majority of winners trained by Lukas were in claiming races and many of those horses were purchased for very high prices. His time has come and gone.

Ask Satish Sanan how much Lukas spent of his money and how awful the return was with him training them.

[tzipi]

4 Derby wins
5 in the Preakness
4 Belmont wins
18 Breeder's cups
4 Eclipse awards

Anyone here won one of these?

:ThmbUp:

[wisconsin]

You can remember the few longshots that Lukas surpised with but how many other horses were driven into the ground being placed in races where they didn't belong. Nobody is worse than him when it comes to placing a horse where it belongs. With Lukas, if you break your maiden, your next start will be in a stakes race even if a horse takes 10 races to break it's maiden. I'm sure if you check out his training stats over the last several years, you will find the majority of winners trained by Lukas were in claiming races and many of those horses were purchased for very high prices. His time has come and gone.

Ask Satish Sanan how much Lukas spent of his money and how awful the return was with him training them.

Wow, seriously? Have you scanned the pp's of Derby contenders lately? Did you even open the Form this year? Nearly everyone with a 2 or 3 year old is guilty of the maiden to stakes move. Horses are not "driven" into the ground when placed in bad spots. They merely run like they don't belong. I don't buy anyone's bullshit that running a horse over it's head causes breakdowns, because we would see dozens more per week. On any given racing day, horses run over their heads all across the country. I assure you that for every "big" name horse, there are ten "no-name" horses that become injured day in and day out. I sure don't hear you saying anything about Joe Gluepot running his ten dollar horse for Clm7500, but it happens every day at tracks everywhere.

[exactatom]

Racing has changed. It is all about getting graded earnings as quickly as you can in order to lock up a Derby spot. Owners want to race a horse in astakes race assoon as they see any promise in a young horse.

Owners change trainers all the time. It is a part of the game. Lukas lost many of his great owners and is now working on replenishing his stable. On paper, Dublin was one of the best horses he has run in a TC race the last 5-7 years. He has been more active at the sales. His methods must work. Look at the success of those who learned under him. As for Azeri, I still wonder why De Seroux was given that horse instead of soeone like a Mandella.

[sonnyp]

[QUOTE- exactatom

Lukas lost many of his great owners and is now working on replenishing his stable. On paper, Dublin was one of the best horses he has run in a TC race the last 5-7 years. He has been more active at the sales. His methods must work. Look at the success of those who learned under him. As for Azeri, I still wonder why De Seroux was given that horse instead of soeone like a Mandella.[/QUOTE]

his second trainers may have done well but you wouldn't say the same for his owners.

i'll never forget an interview with gene klein x-owner of the chargers after he was the leading owner in purses won. he said in effect : wayne gets !0% of the purses, the purchase price when they come in, the sales price when they go out (regardless if its more or less than they cost), a per diem, incentives and never spends a quarter. i'm the leading owner and the biggest loser in the game.

he sold everything and quit the game.

[Fager Fan]

his second trainers may have done well but you wouldn't say the same for his owners.

i'll never forget an interview with gene klein x-owner of the chargers after he was the leading owner in purses won. he said in effect : wayne gets !0% of the purses, the purchase price when they come in, the sales price when they go out (regardless if its more or less than they cost), a per diem, incentives and never spends a quarter. i'm the leading owner and the biggest loser in the game.

he sold everything and quit the game.

What's new? That's pretty much true everywhere and not unique to Lukas.

[horses721]

4 Derby wins
5 in the Preakness
4 Belmont wins
18 Breeder's cups
4 Eclipse awards

Anyone here won one of these?
What does that have to do with anything? We are not allowed to comment on his ability because we haven't trained a horse and won a race?

I'm not a cook so I shouldn't complain about food served to me at a restaurant even if I think it stinks?

I'm not a politician so I guess I shouldn't comment on politics?

Never criticize a baseball manager's decision because you never managed a baseball team.

Should I continue discussing all the things that I (and You) haven't done so therefore we should not comment or offer an opinion on anything except the job we do for a living?

[David-LV]

IMO Lukas is old news and MTB is more than done. That said it's probably better to get the news that the horse is done from Lukas than Chip. Lukas has still burned through more owners money on yearlings with his training than anyone. I just wish he would ride off into the sunset rather than show up each Triple Crown year with a horse that has no shot just to show his mug on tv. D Wayne please say BYE,BYE.

As you Quoted: "A POSITIVE ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN A NEGATIVE NOTHING." :confused:


________
David-LV

[WinterTriangle]

On paper, Dublin was one of the best horses he has run in a TC race the last 5-7 years.

What paper are you looking at?

Dublin won a 7F race in 2009. So his owner puts him in classic distance stakes races, repeatedly, where he:

lost at 1 mile, lost again at 1 mile, then lost again at 1 mile, then he lost at 1-1/16 mile, lost at 1-1/8 mile, and lost again at 1-3/16 mile.

How this makes Dublin "one of the best horses he has run in a TC race in the last 5-7 years is beyond me. The horse won a one-mile race, and a maiden race at 6F, a year ago.

I stopped putting him on my tickets after the 3rd loss at 1 mile, since the races were only getting longer after that. :D

[Fager Fan]

What paper are you looking at?

Dublin won a 7F race in 2009. So his owner puts him in classic distance stakes races, repeatedly, where he:

lost at 1 mile, lost again at 1 mile, then lost again at 1 mile, then he lost at 1-1/16 mile, lost at 1-1/8 mile, and lost again at 1-3/16 mile.

How this makes Dublin "one of the best horses he has run in a TC race in the last 5-7 years is beyond me. The horse won a one-mile race, and a maiden race at 6F, a year ago.

I stopped putting him on my tickets after the 3rd loss at 1 mile, since the races were only getting longer after that. :D

So who has Lukas run in the TC in the last 5-7 years who was better than Dublin?

[Trotman]

David-LV what part of IMO do you not get, again D.Wayne had his day and I for one won't disbute that and my opinion has nothing to do with losing money on his horses because other than the TC or BC where he runs horses is not where my money goes.

[gm10]

What paper are you looking at?

Dublin won a 7F race in 2009. So his owner puts him in classic distance stakes races, repeatedly, where he:

lost at 1 mile, lost again at 1 mile, then lost again at 1 mile, then he lost at 1-1/16 mile, lost at 1-1/8 mile, and lost again at 1-3/16 mile.

How this makes Dublin "one of the best horses he has run in a TC race in the last 5-7 years is beyond me. The horse won a one-mile race, and a maiden race at 6F, a year ago.

I stopped putting him on my tickets after the 3rd loss at 1 mile, since the races were only getting longer after that. :D

I think on running ability alone this is one of the best 3yo of the year, but he can't handle the circumstances, he freaks out.

[exactatom]

What paper are you looking at?

Dublin won a 7F race in 2009. So his owner puts him in classic distance stakes races, repeatedly, where he:

lost at 1 mile, lost again at 1 mile, then lost again at 1 mile, then he lost at 1-1/16 mile, lost at 1-1/8 mile, and lost again at 1-3/16 mile.

How this makes Dublin "one of the best horses he has run in a TC race in the last 5-7 years is beyond me. The horse won a one-mile race, and a maiden race at 6F, a year ago.

I stopped putting him on my tickets after the 3rd loss at 1 mile, since the races were only getting longer after that. :D

I am going by past performances. Lukas has led horses like Flying Private (last in Derby 135) to the classics when most handicappers could have thrown them out immediately. Dublin did win a graded stake at 2 and was not rushed into BC Juvenile like he did in prior years. This horse did suffer throat ailment and while did not win another race did run well in the preps. My comment was not so much an endorsement Dublin, but rather was comparing him to Lukas starters in TC races of the past five years. That is an explanation of my thought process.

[exactatom]

his second trainers may have done well but you wouldn't say the same for his owners.

i'll never forget an interview with gene klein x-owner of the chargers after he was the leading owner in purses won. he said in effect : wayne gets !0% of the purses, the purchase price when they come in, the sales price when they go out (regardless if its more or less than they cost), a per diem, incentives and never spends a quarter. i'm the leading owner and the biggest loser in the game.

he sold everything and quit the game.

When you factor in the profit on the real estate that Klein used for his stables he was far from the biggest loser in the game. While this was not on the track earnings, Klein would not have made this money if he had not been involved in the horse racing game. Didn't he get out of the business due to health reasons? If you read any biographies on Klein you will see that every endeavor he was in was a money maker. Not all owners make money. MC Hammer lost his fortunes and it had little to do with how Lukas trained his horses.

[sonnyp]

When you factor in the profit on the real estate that Klein used for his stables he was far from the biggest loser in the game. While this was not on the track earnings, Klein would not have made this money if he had not been involved in the horse racing game. Didn't he get out of the business due to health reasons? If you read any biographies on Klein you will see that every endeavor he was in was a money maker. Not all owners make money. MC Hammer lost his fortunes and it had little to do with how Lukas trained his horses.


as far as klein goes in the early days he was gung ho on horses. i remember him saying he loved the horses because he never had one come in to renegotiate a contract after a win like the charger players.

we're talking profit and loss from horseracing here. in the horse business he lost a ton with lukas calling the shots and toward the end and stated it was no accident lukas drove a rolls royce.

as far as m c hammer, he and his crew were out of control bettors. i remember lukas saying they would bet on the elevator making it to the next floor if they could. they had that good mare lite light.

one thing i thought about after my original post on lukas, like him or not, he lost his son jeff from complications after he was trampled by tobasco cat who was running loose in the barn area. this has got to be a terrible price to pay and one that, im sure, haunts him. he has my sympathy....im sure he'd trade all of his successes to have him back.

[WinterTriangle]

I am going by past performances. Lukas has led horses like Flying Private (last in Derby 135) to the classics when most handicappers could have thrown them out immediately. Dublin did win a graded stake at 2 and was not rushed into BC Juvenile like he did in prior years. This horse did suffer throat ailment and while did not win another race did run well in the preps. My comment was not so much an endorsement Dublin, but rather was comparing him to Lukas starters in TC races of the past five years. That is an explanation of my thought process.

Did not mean to bash Dublin, seeing him you can't help but like him, and I do-----just not as the races got longer. He's got a lot of presence and has the look of a good racehorse. I like him at 8F-8.5F.

[PaceAdvantage]

one thing i thought about after my original post on lukas, like him or not, he lost his son jeff from complications after he was trampled by tobasco cat who was running loose in the barn area. this has got to be a terrible price to pay and one that, im sure, haunts him. he has my sympathy....im sure he'd trade all of his successes to have him back.Jeff is still alive.

[tucker6]

Did not mean to bash Dublin, seeing him you can't help but like him, and I do-----just not as the races got longer. He's got a lot of presence and has the look of a good racehorse. I like him at 8F-8.5F.
I'm not following you here. You like him at 8-8.5F, yet stopped betting him after his third straight loss at a mile. I know you meant that in context to upcoming longer races, but if he lost three at 8F, why is he still good at that distance? Methinks he may be better at 6-7F.

[Maxspa]

All,
Check Mine That Bird's latest workout with Lukas. There is a featured story in the Daily Racing Form today 5/27/10. Should be interesting to see this horse race with D Wayne calling the shots!
Maxspa

[Fager Fan]

as far as klein goes in the early days he was gung ho on horses. i remember him saying he loved the horses because he never had one come in to renegotiate a contract after a win like the charger players.

we're talking profit and loss from horseracing here. in the horse business he lost a ton with lukas calling the shots and toward the end and stated it was no accident lukas drove a rolls royce.

That's not how it works. You don't just ignore the value of the horses as breeding stock considering that is the real way to make money.

Instead of Klein, why don't we talk about W.T. Young, who did pretty well with Lukas? Including a horse named Storm Cat.

[nearco]

That's not how it works. You don't just ignore the value of the horses as breeding stock considering that is the real way to make money.

Instead of Klein, why don't we talk about W.T. Young, who did pretty well with Lukas? Including a horse named Storm Cat.

Storm Cat was trained by Jonathon Sheppard.

[joanied]

Jeff is still alive.

Thanks for that, PA...someone sure has the wrong info!!

[sonnyp]

Thanks for that, PA...someone sure has the wrong info!!

i guess im the one with the wrong info and im so sorry !!! i was reading where he was not doing well and i felt very bad about his condition.

i thought i read he had passed and am thrilled i was wrong and again apologize for my error.

[joanied]

Hey, sonnyp...Not to worry...in fact, this was a good thing to be mistaken about...I beleive Jeff still has problems stemming from that accident...but is otherwise fine.
Everyone makes mistakes :) ..and when we do, it's good to know someone here will catch it.