Upcoming Monmouth Meet Handle Predictions.

[andymays]

Monmouth to offer elite 50-day, $50-million meet - Thoroughbred Times
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2010/March/09/Monmouth-Park-to-offer-elite-50day-50million-summer-meet.aspx

Excerpt:

The revised 2010 Monmouth season will run from May 22 through September 6 with racing on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays as well as the Monday holidays of Memorial Day, July 5, and Labor Day. Twelve races are scheduled each day.

Excerpt:

Kulina admitted that handle on Monmouth racing will need to double in order to sustain a $1-million purse level in 2011, when the casino subsidy runs out.

“That’s the gamble we’re taking. The [simulcast] signal will be stronger, more people will be paying attention to it, and we’ve made some soft projections,” he said.

The track averaged more than $409,000 in average on-track daily handle last year and $3.1-million in all-sources handle.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm looking forward to the upcoming meet and think that Monmouth is going to rock Horse Racing in the United States this year. I'm guessing average field size will be close to 10 because of the huge purses.

Given the three day a week schedule and twelve races a day I'll guess that the daily average handle goes up 200% to 300%. That's probably high but I'd like to see it happen. :ThmbUp:

[Robert Goren]

I vote for the less than 25% increase. I maybe wrong here but I think they are taking the wrong approach here. If they are going to take state money, they should have spent it on the gamblers, not horse people. This was a huge mistake thats going to blow up in their faces. We will know whose is right by the end of the summer. JMO

[jballscalls]

I vote for the less than 25% increase. I maybe wrong here but I think they are taking the wrong approach here. If they are going to take state money, they should have spent it on the gamblers, not horse people. This was a huge mistake thats going to blow up in their faces. We will know whose is right by the end of the summer. JMO

i think it will be up quite significantly for a number of reasons. more attention, better horses, bigger fields are all one reason, but there are many little factors as well. DRF is including them in the AM edition of the forms here in the NW something that has not generally happened. they will replace Calder as the fourth track, and that alone will lead to more play just because more people will have access to their pp's.

studying handle for the past year or so on a daily basis, even though overall it's down, it seems the tracks that are putting out full fields on dirt are the ones that have been consistently up.

[andymays]

If I had to bet my life I'd say up around 125%. I'm still hoping for 200% to 300% though.

The problems in California and New York will help them big time.

[DJofSD]

If I had to bet my life I'd say up around 125%. I'm still hoping for 200% to 300% though.

The problems in California and New York will help them big time.
Right. If they can give me 2 or 3 grass races each day, routes only, please, with fields of at least 8 runners, I'll handicap and bet those races.

Do they still have the UN International?

[jballscalls]

Right. If they can give me 2 or 3 grass races each day, routes only, please, with fields of at least 8 runners, I'll handicap and bet those races.

Do they still have the UN International?

the G1 United Nations Stakes is on July 3rd 750k i think

[andymays]

Right. If they can give me 2 or 3 grass races each day, routes only, please, with fields of at least 8 runners, I'll handicap and bet those races.

Do they still have the UN International?


The more two turn races on dirt or turf the better. :ThmbUp:

Although turf sprints are fine.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Last years daily average figures includes their worst handle days. If we are comparing handle for Saturdays versus Saturdays, etc. I think we'll see a 25% jump tops.

Studies have shown that doubling purse size increases handle 6%. However, if you also cut dates as Monmouth as done, I believe handle, especially live handle and attendance will increase.

Of course, if Saratoga doesn't open up, we could see a double.

[andymays]

Last years daily average figures includes their worst handle days. If we are comparing handle for Saturdays versus Saturdays, etc. I think we'll see a 25% jump tops.

Studies have shown that doubling purse size increases handle 6%. However, if you also cut dates as Monmouth as done, I believe handle, especially live handle and attendance will increase.

Of course, if Saratoga doesn't open up, we could see a double.


You're forgetting field size and more races per day. Not to mention the big problems in California and New York.

What would Monmouth have been rated by HANA if their average field size were 9 or more?

[GaryG]

With 12 races a day there will be at least 3 on the grass. This is going to be a great meet. I look for a big increase in handle and I doubt that many horseplayers care where the money came from or are interested in NJ politics.

[andymays]

With 12 races a day there will be at least 3 on the grass. This is going to be a great meet. I look for a big increase in handle and I doubt that many horseplayers care where the money came from or are interested in NJ politics.


If this meet kicks butt like I think it will it will change racing in the U.S.

Other tracks will either have to compete for the handle or go away.

If other tracks come up with the money to increase purses and compete for the handle then it comes down to the price of the bet. Once that happens we will see the tracks competing to lower the take a little. As time goes on maybe a lot.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

You're forgetting field size and more races per day. Not to mention the big problems in California and New York.

What would Monmouth have been rated by HANA if their average field size were 9 or more?

You are right. If field size jumps over 1.5 per race, it will probably account for another 20-30% in handle.....if field size jumps that is.

[andymays]

You are right. If field size jumps over 1.5 per race, it will probably account for another 20-30% in handle.....if field size jumps that is.


and the 12 races per day with big fields.

You have to remember if I'm not mistaken they're offering a 30k purse for 5k claimers right? I think the fields will be large on average.

[bdownes]

How many races per day were Monmouth running on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday of last year? 10 except big days?? 11?

Jason.. I think u are overestimating the jump of Monmouth in the AM Edition of the DRF. Monmouth will benefit some but DRF generates 20 percent of their business online. Daily circulation is only around 33,000 thousand a day. Less than 20 years ago it was 100,000 a day. That online percentage will continue to go up and up while paper sales will stay stagnant or decline. DRF publishes over 35 regional editions of the DRF. Triple Crown circulation peaks at over 350,000.

Southern California is taking a good part of the Monmouth racing so that will help a TON. Monmouth gets automatically included in the California simulcast editions of the DRF being they are now on the limited Cali. simulcast schedule.

I just checked the Colorado simulcast schedule and they don't even have Monmouth listed in the month of May.

[lamboguy]

my guess is that it will double ontrack and more than triple in off-track betting facilitities, adw's, casino's and other racetracks.. as far as i know they have left signal fees alone even though they are putting on a strong product.they are charging less than churchill downs is and there will be no comparison.

[arno]

In the past Monmouth Park, babies their turf course and takes the races off the turf sometimes for no apparent reason.
If they continue this mindset field size will not be as high as players want and the internet bettor will be disgruntled and go back to playing NYRA or S Cal.

[Rutgers]

If NYRA stays open, I think the increase will be less then 100%.

For what’s it worth, (and it’s not worth much) here is my convoluted reasoning.

With 2 less race days, I would expect the average daily handle to go up at least 67%. If not, then the average weekly handle will drop.

Having 2-4 more races per racecard then last year can only help the average daily handle as well. That alone may bump the average daily handle up another 15-20%.

So without adding any “new money/players”, the average daily handle should go up about 90% just on the basis of the new format.

As for adding additional money from pass years, I think they will be hard press to get an additional 10%.

In years past, the average per person wagering on-track for the live product is in the $65-70 range. This level of player probably isn’t going to increase there wagers just because there are more horses in the field. A few of the bigger bettors on track will, but the vast majority of the players will not.

The other problem Monmouth has is historically their pools sizes are much smaller then NYRA and Southern California. For example, even if the early Pick 4 pool at NYRA was cut in half and the Monmouth Pick 4 pool double, the NYRA pick 4 pool would still be bigger. (and the late Pick 4 pool at NYRA is even larger) Therefore, even with the increase field size and level of racing most big bettors will probably still not play Monmouth. And for the pools to grow really big, a track needs big bettors.

Now if NYRA is forced to shut down, anything is possible.

[andymays]

http://www.app.com/article/20100515/999999999/5150322/1024/POLITICS/MONMOUTH-PARK

Excerpt:

"I'm not nervous," Hartmann said. "I know all the big names. I think the big names are going to bring more excitement to Monmouth Park and that will draw bigger crowds. I think people like to see better horse racing. There will be races for horses of all kind and I think it's going to bring Monmouth's standards up.

"The horse racing will be better. The competition level will be better and I think Monmouth Park will see better races."

Excerpt:

"I think it's a great thing," said Hartmann, who has called Monmouth Park home for nearly 30 years. "I think it's going to be the resurrection of Monmouth Park. I just think racing is changing and you have to change along with it. We're going to have big fields, great crowds and big handles."

[andymays]

Officials hope limited racing schedule will benefit Monmouth Park

http://www.app.com/article/20100515/NEWS/5150324/Officials-hope-limited-racing-schedule-will-benefit-Monmouth-Park

Excerpt:

"In any athletic event, people want to see the good players," said Robert Kulina, vice president and general manager for the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority, which operates Monmouth Park. "Our goal is to sell more bets, and the public has told us they don't want to bet on small fields. They want big fields. They want competitive racing. And no matter what the level the race is on, if it's competitive, it's a good race."

Excerpt:

Said Kulina: "What we're offering this year is a new approach to racing."


Excerpt:

"One of the things we recognize is with or without slot revenue, racing has to change," Forbes said. "The customer has spoken. He wants quality racing, larger fields, and we think it's time someone stepped up and gave the customer what he's looking for."

[Robert Goren]

No where did he mention lower takeouts. This whole thing is all about the horse people. If they really were concerned about their customers, they would have cut the takeout. They still don't get it.:bang:

[andymays]

No where did he mention lower takeouts. This whole thing is all about the horse people. If they really were concerned about their customers, they would have cut the takeout. They still don't get it.:bang:

I wonder where Monmouth would rank in the HANA ratings if their field size average was about 9.5. Does anyone have an idea?

[Robert Goren]

Where is the big better saying that they are going to double the amount of money they are going to put in the pools. All I have seen is bunch of quotes from horse people. Of course it is great deal for them even if it is one shot deal.

[andymays]

Where is the big better saying that they are going to double the amount of money they are going to put in the pools. All I have seen is bunch of quotes from horse people. Of course it is great deal for them even if it is one shot deal.


They need to see a 100% increase in the daily average handle if they want to be able to do it again next year. If they are successfull it will rock Horse Racing.

Why wouldn't you bet Monmouth this upcoming meet?

Is there another meet that can come close to what they're offering?

[Robert Goren]

I wonder where Monmouth would rank in the HANA ratings if their field size average was about 9.5. Does anyone have an idea? a better question where would they rank if they cut their takeout by 5%. 13% takeout and average field of 8 or 18% and 9.5. I know which I would rather have. The really sad thing is if they cut their takeout they would generate a lot more money for purses. But those dolts can't seem to get that in to their thick skulls. JMO

[Robert Goren]

They need to see a 100% increase in the daily average handle if they want to be able to do it again next year. If they are successfull it will rock Horse Racing.

Why wouldn't you bet Monmouth this upcoming meet?

Is there another meet that can come close to what they're offering? I bet it some last year and will again this year when the race is right. I will tell this much, as much I like bigger fields, I like lower takeout more, alot more.

[rwwupl]

Officials hope limited racing schedule will benefit Monmouth Park

http://www.app.com/article/20100515/NEWS/5150324/Officials-hope-limited-racing-schedule-will-benefit-Monmouth-Park

Excerpt:

"In any athletic event, people want to see the good players," said Robert Kulina, vice president and general manager for the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority, which operates Monmouth Park. "Our goal is to sell more bets, and the public has told us they don't want to bet on small fields. They want big fields. They want competitive racing. And no matter what the level the race is on, if it's competitive, it's a good race."

Excerpt:

Said Kulina: "What we're offering this year is a new approach to racing."


Excerpt:

"One of the things we recognize is with or without slot revenue, racing has to change," Forbes said. "The customer has spoken. He wants quality racing, larger fields, and we think it's time someone stepped up and gave the customer what he's looking for."


I Like what they are saying. I will take a close look at Monmouth Park.

This is an ad in the DRF...I note that it indicates .50 cent pick4 and pick5, with take out 15%,Superfectas every race, Rolling Doubles,replays,video,Selections by Brad Thomas,etc.....

It is a good start and shows movement in the direction of the CUSTOMER !

Congratulations

Now... if it was 10% across the board,we would have our game back!!!

See Ad below....

http://www.drf.com/promotions/email/mailing_monmouth_051810.html

rwwupl

[Phantombridgejumpe]

takeout.

If I polled 100 random WPS players at the track how many of them could tell me the takeout at the track they are playing?

You might get some big players if you lower the takeout, but I don't think the typical player knows or cares. Should they know/care, probably - but what people care about and what people should care about are often two different things.

Having a 50 day meet with large purses generates press - which I think will help.

Lowering takeout by a couple % generates horse racing press only - which might help some, but not as much as you are implying.

[castaway01]

No where did he mention lower takeouts. This whole thing is all about the horse people. If they really were concerned about their customers, they would have cut the takeout. They still don't get it.:bang:

I don't want to go around and around with the usual takeout debate here, but I will point out there is no way on earth with the racetracks losing money they'd have gotten a takeout decrease improved. Yes, I understand that the takeout decrease might lead to a greater handle increase, but no way you'd convince a roomful of legislators of that fact. However, I wouldn't bang my head over it because at least the NJSEA took a bold move to try to turn the track's fortunes around.

I hope there's a massive handle increase. Unfortunately a meet of this quality will be a one-time thing because the purse subsidy from the casinos is gone after this year. That is, unless another subsidy comes along, but it doesn't look like there's political support for that right now. However, if this meet is very successful, maybe they will keep the purses somewhat elevated next year and the quality of racing high.

Selfishly, I'm just glad I'll have such high-quality racing in my state, and expect to pay a visit to see it for myself, which I haven't done in a while (since I usually bet from home, and before that at Philly Park, which is much closer to me).

[rwwupl]

takeout.

If I polled 100 random WPS players at the track how many of them could tell me the takeout at the track they are playing?

You might get some big players if you lower the takeout, but I don't think the typical player knows or cares. Should they know/care, probably - but what people care about and what people should care about are often two different things.

Having a 50 day meet with large purses generates press - which I think will help.

Lowering takeout by a couple % generates horse racing press only - which might help some, but not as much as you are implying.


Phantom... If you polled 100 random people on the backstretch they could not tell you where the purses come from nor do they care. They know the purses exist and expect to get paid from them.

The typical player does not know the take out numbers, but he knows if he wins or loses, and lower take out means there will be more winners going home...and more winners going home means more customers tomorrow.

Numbers and stats support statisticians, but people know when they win or lose.

[Phantombridgejumpe]

different tracks are up on the screens and you explained that one track has 20% takeout and one has 15% the player would probably play the track with 15% more - - but, in my opinion, most have no idea.

I think more (not all) have more idea if they are betting a $50,000 purse race or a $5,000 purse race and are more likely to bet quality.

I guess we shall see. I'm in NJ too and there is buzz - what the buzz generates is still to be seen.

[point given]

I Like what they are saying. I will take a close look at Monmouth Park.

This is an ad in the DRF...I note that it indicates .50 cent pick4 and pick5, with take out 15%,Superfectas every race, Rolling Doubles,replays,video,Selections by Brad Thomas,etc.....

It is a good start and shows movement in the direction of the CUSTOMER !

Congratulations

Now... if it was 10% across the board,we would have our game back!!!

See Ad below....

http://www.drf.com/promotions/email/mailing_monmouth_051810.html

rwwupl

If you read the ad again, you will note that the only 50 cent bet is the P5, not the P4 .The wording is poor.

[Robert Goren]

The $2 punter may or may not know the takeout is. But the people who bet big money know. That is why they demand rebates(and get rebates). I have very little interest the purse of a race, all I care about is the return I get if my horse wins. Most betters feel the same way. We have had a lot of threads on where people can get the deals for their bets, but not every many(if any) where they can bet on races with the highest purses.;)

[arno]

You ever notice in New Jersey the races that start the Pick 4 and Pick 5 do not start a Pick 3? I'd rather have rolling pick 3's than a PIck 5.

Funny, Monmouth Park calls a 210 start twilight, yet Del Mar calls 200start their normal post time.

Will Brad Thomas selections on the iinternet be the same that he has in the paddock at 1230 PM?

Will Monmouth be as speed favoring with new new track cushion?

30 Minutes between races will have the last race, the 12th going off at 620 pm. Will the Monmouth Park regulars stay that late?

Let me be the first to say, even with Gomez and Johhny V being at Monmouth the entire meet, Elvis Trujillo will defend his riding title.

I'll give Monmouth Park credit for trying!

[Fager Fan]

I vote for the less than 25% increase. I maybe wrong here but I think they are taking the wrong approach here. If they are going to take state money, they should have spent it on the gamblers, not horse people. This was a huge mistake thats going to blow up in their faces. We will know whose is right by the end of the summer. JMO

What? What were they supposed to do - ask for the addresses of all gamblers so they can each a crisp $20? Would that make you happy? And how would that drive up the horse population to give you a good race to bet on?

I swear, sometimes I wonder if anything would make gamblers happy, and then you wonder why tracks don't listen to you. Be real.

[DeanT]

I wonder where Monmouth would rank in the HANA ratings if their field size average was about 9.5. Does anyone have an idea?

Top ten. They are good in takeout (top ten) but they have been hurt with all those small fields.

I am looking forward to this meet as a player and it sounds like others are too. Where is GaryG with all the tips? He kicks butt there.

[Robert Goren]

What? What were they supposed to do - ask for the addresses of all gamblers so they can each a crisp $20? Would that make you happy? And how would that drive up the horse population to give you a good race to bet on?

I swear, sometimes I wonder if anything would make gamblers happy, and then you wonder why tracks don't listen to you. Be real. Try an 12% takeout like it was when I started betting horses and when Dr Fager ran. Not only was it 12%, but 5% went to the state. So somehow the tracks and the horse people got along on 7% of the take. Racing was booming. No 4yo maidens and bottom claimers had AE lists. Now they get at least 17% and money from the state as well. Racing is dying. Now we have 5 yo maidens and 6 horse fields for bottom claimers. It doesn't take an IQ of 160 that it is going in the wrong direction. JMO

[andymays]

Try an 12% takeout like it was when I started betting horses and when Dr Fager ran. Not only was it 12%, but 5% went to the state. So somehow the tracks and the horse people got along on 7% of the take. Racing was booming. No 4yo maidens and bottom claimers had AE lists. Now they get at least 17% and money from the state as well. Racing is dying. Now we have 5 yo maidens and 6 horse fields for bottom claimers. It doesn't take an IQ of 160 that it is going in the wrong direction. JMO


Robert, this meet is a positive development anyway you look at it.

If they are successful others will try to match Monmouth next year. If they do then after a while (a few years) they will have to compete on price (takeout).

You never know.

This Monmouth meet could be ................

.......................................wait for it..................

"How Horse Racing got it's groove back!"

[onefast99]

You ever notice in New Jersey the races that start the Pick 4 and Pick 5 do not start a Pick 3? I'd rather have rolling pick 3's than a PIck 5.

Funny, Monmouth Park calls a 210 start twilight, yet Del Mar calls 200start their normal post time.

Will Brad Thomas selections on the iinternet be the same that he has in the paddock at 1230 PM?

Will Monmouth be as speed favoring with new new track cushion?

30 Minutes between races will have the last race, the 12th going off at 620 pm. Will the Monmouth Park regulars stay that late?

Let me be the first to say, even with Gomez and Johhny V being at Monmouth the entire meet, Elvis Trujillo will defend his riding title.

I'll give Monmouth Park credit for trying!
Del Mar runs 9 races MP is running 12 therefore the 210pm start for the twilight racing on July9th,16th and 23rd.

[andymays]

Prominent New York trainer commits 12 horses to New Jersey


http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2010/05/19/news/doc4bf361d59546b325911918.txt

Excerpt:

“I am committed to Monmouth because no one is committed to me,” Contessa said. “Todd Pletcher is already taking his best horses to Monmouth. John Velasquez is going to Monmouth. There’s no instability in New Jersey right now. I’m going to establish a presence in New Jersey for survival. I’m a New York guy, but first and foremost I’m a father who has to support his family. My hand has been forced.

“Every trainer, every owner in New York is on edge, not knowing what’s going to happen.”

[Bruddah]

At least their management is being bold and creative. They aren't just opening the gates and saying we're open. That's the approach they have taken for decades.

I wish them good luck, good fortune and good racing. May their boldness wake up the racing management in this country. Good going Monmouth!

[andymays]

Lucrative Monmouth meeting generating buzz - Thoroughbred Times

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2010/May/18/Lucrative-Monmouth-meeting-generating-buzz.aspx

Excerpt:

“There are a lot of unknowns, but the upside is huge,” Kulina said. “California is taking seven races a day from us this year, which is a first, and TVG is broadcasting live here every day.”

Excerpt:

Competition on the backstretch will be stiff with Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands (G1) winning trainer Todd Pletcher joined by fellow New Yorkers Kiaran McLaughlin, Bruce Levine, Nick Zito and Richard Violette Jr.

A contingent of California trainers stabled locally includes Robert Hess Jr., Mike Mitchell, Peter Miller, and Michael Machowsky. Woodbine-based Scott Fairlie, Patrick Biancone, and many Mid-Atlantic-based conditioners received stall space on the Monmouth backstretch.

[onefast99]

Prominent New York trainer commits 12 horses to New Jersey


http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2010/05/19/news/doc4bf361d59546b325911918.txt

Excerpt:

“I am committed to Monmouth because no one is committed to me,” Contessa said. “Todd Pletcher is already taking his best horses to Monmouth. John Velasquez is going to Monmouth. There’s no instability in New Jersey right now. I’m going to establish a presence in New Jersey for survival. I’m a New York guy, but first and foremost I’m a father who has to support his family. My hand has been forced.

“Every trainer, every owner in New York is on edge, not knowing what’s going to happen.”
Good for him, last year he sent a few over so he is no stranger to NJ.

[thespaah]

What? What were they supposed to do - ask for the addresses of all gamblers so they can each a crisp $20? Would that make you happy? And how would that drive up the horse population to give you a good race to bet on?

I swear, sometimes I wonder if anything would make gamblers happy, and then you wonder why tracks don't listen to you. Be real.
Gee, another example of contempt for the customers.
Yeah, screw the bettors. They are trash.:rolleyes:

[samyn on the green]

Monmouth Park Brings Belmont To Its Knees (http://gregcalabrese.blogspot.com/2010/05/monmouth-park-brings-belmont-to-crisis.html)

Take a look at the Monmouth entries for opening day (http://drf.com/static/entries/22/eMTH22.html?rn=071347). 5K claimers run for $30K, maiden specials run for $75K while the purse for N1X is $80K. All of the good barns are present; in fact there is a convergence of horsemen as barns from California, the mid Atlantic and New York converge. In a sport where the success of a venue is tied to its ability to latch onto the welfare dole i.e. slots, it is a refreshing to see clear thinking put to action. This mega-meet will surely attract attention; hopefully the horse fans will recognize excellence and reward it with their wagering dollar.

In comparison there is New York, with its political circus of useful idiots, politburo mediocrity and ubiquitous corruption, this is a jurisdiction that could never actualize a plan like "Category-Killer-Monmouth". In New York there is only a collection of individual needs and it is power that holds sway. The common good is not only ignored it is no longer recognizable. All these years of demoralization have brought New York to crisis. One look at the racing industry paints a clear picture and is micro-chasm of the entire state. Former leading owner Paragallo is in jail for animal neglect. It has taken over 9 years and counting to install slots at Aqueduct. Albany has become completely ineffectual as it is a deadlock of competing special interests that can not find common ground. OTB's business model revolves around theft of funds coupled with non-payment of vendors. The once proud NYRA has been reduced to a pathetic beggar, needing loans to remain in daily operation. The only hope is one day slots will come and bail out the whole wretched mess. It is truly a false hope.

While New Jersey may also be on the verge of crisis, it is at least is fighting and the ground is fertile enough to sprout a new idea. Governor Christie has enacted a bold plan of action; a plan of action that has a good chance of usurping New York's former glory. New Jersey has a chance to crawl out from destabilization, reverse decades of demoralization and emerge as a functional jurisdiction. New Jersey is setting an example. While New Jersey rises, New York remains mired in demoralization, is doomed to crisis and then obliteration. Slots will never be savior and are only a interim solution leading to slots replacing racing entirely. Will others recognize what is happening and copy New Jerseys plan? Hopefully this Monmouth category-killer track revolutionizes the industry.

[Fager Fan]

Gee, another example of contempt for the customers.
Yeah, screw the bettors. They are trash.:rolleyes:

How are you getting screwed? You're not, and always spewing the "I'm getting screwed" nonsense doesn't help your cause.

Did you read what I was responding to? Twice the poster showed his contempt for the "horse people" saying the money shouldn't have gone to larger purses but instead to reduced takeout. How does that even make sense if reduced takeout is supposed to result in a larger take for the track?

Gamblers need to adjust their attitude about owners, who are gamblers just like you, just way bigger gamblers, and without, you'd have no sport to gamble on. You have this attitude that you're the indispensible ones, when in fact, both owner and gamblers are the indispensible ones. Quit attacking the owner and learn to appreciate that he's just like you, just spending a whole lot more, with a whole lot more risk, and he gambles in the form of horseflesh instead of dollar bills at the window.

Gamblers have to get a grip and get real with your complaints if you want to be listened to.

[onefast99]

[QUOTE=Fager Fan]How are you getting screwed? You're not, and always spewing the "I'm getting screwed" nonsense doesn't help your cause.

Did you read what I was responding to? Twice the poster showed his contempt for the "horse people" saying the money shouldn't have gone to larger purses but instead to reduced takeout. How does that even make sense if reduced takeout is supposed to result in a larger take for the track?

Gamblers need to adjust their attitude about owners, who are gamblers just like you, just way bigger gamblers, and without, you'd have no sport to gamble on. You have this attitude that you're the indispensible ones, when in fact, both owner and gamblers are the indispensible ones. Quit attacking the owner and learn to appreciate that he's just like you, just spending a whole lot more, with a whole lot more risk, and he gambles in the form of horseflesh instead of dollar bills at the window.


Very well said, on this forum many owners share their love for both the ownership side and betting side of racing. Lamboguy and Slewis and myself are just a few that are involved in ownership. I bet on the horses at least twice a week in the winter and four or five times a week when Monmouth Park has live racing. Anyone can go out and get licensed and buy a horse and realize it isn't easy to make money as an owner in this game. I wonder if some of these same people that complain about the track takeout realize the costs involved to run a racetrack, it is no different than any other business where most of the costs are borne upon the consumer

[1st time lasix]

I suspect I am the type of patron racing looks for. Capable of wagering from 500-1200 per day...with churn maybe more. I have a strong appreciation for the difficulty of the game from ownership/training/handicapping aspects.....and I truly respect the beauty of the animal. It is a wonderful sport and form of entertainment. But here is the thing from the patron side...I will not ever drop a dime into any pool that removes above 20% "off the top" under any circumstances. Even with rebates...that much "juice" is nearly impossible to overcome over time. Whenever a new meet opens..... first thing i do is refresh my memory of the takes. I think it would be foolish to not know them and still particpate. Would you play a golf match for money with someone without knowing your oppenents approximate handicap? I am amazed that most racing officials just don't get it. Why should one wager in one pool be "taxed" more than another. At least some jurisdictions do 18-19% accross the board. I personally prefer exotics....at Monmouth I will not play into their tri,,,,super or pic 6 pool. Obviously I will tailor my opinions and limit any plays at all to win/exactas/pic 4/or pic 5 pools.

[point given]

I suspect I am the type of patron racing looks for. Capable of wagering from 500-1200 per day...with churn maybe more. I have a strong appreciation for the difficulty of the game from ownership/training/handicapping aspects.....and I truly respect the beauty of the animal. It is a wonderful sport and form of entertainment. But here is the thing from the patron side...I will not ever drop a dime into any pool that removes above 20% "off the top" under any circumstances. Even with rebates...that much "juice" is nearly impossible to overcome over time. Whenever a new meet opens..... first thing i do is refresh my memory of the takes. I think it would be foolish to not know them and still particpate. Would you play a golf match for money with someone without knowing your oppenents approximate handicap? I am amazed that most racing officials just don't get it. Why should one wager in one pool be "taxed" more than another. At least some jurisdictions do 18-19% accross the board. I personally prefer exotics....at Monmouth I will not play into their tri,,,,super or pic 6 pool. Obviously I will tailor my opinions and limit any plays at all to win/exactas/pic 4/or pic 5 pools.

Monmouth doesnot have a P6. They do have a P4/ P5 with a 15% takeout. The pools you want to avoid are the Tri, super and p3, all 25%

[andymays]

It looks like people are starting to figure out that New York may close. Monmouth will be up over 100% daily average handle from last year.


Monmouth is in the "garden spot".

[andymays]

Monmouth hopes concentrated schedule will revive horse industry

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/21/AR2010052101986.html

Excerpt:

Monmouth is a beautiful track with a grand history, but in recent years its sparse weekday crowds and dreary racing cards made the place look and feel forlorn. It was more than two years ago that Bob Kulina, the track's general manager, turned to Dennis Drazin, then the president of the horsemen's association, and said plaintively, "This isn't working."

Kulina and Drazin had sometimes been adversaries in negotiations, but they shared a love of the game as well the recognition that the sport's status quo couldn't be maintained.

"If we didn't adjust our product," Kulina said, "we were going to go out of business."

[onefast99]

Monmouth hopes concentrated schedule will revive horse industry

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/21/AR2010052101986.html

Excerpt:

Monmouth is a beautiful track with a grand history, but in recent years its sparse weekday crowds and dreary racing cards made the place look and feel forlorn. It was more than two years ago that Bob Kulina, the track's general manager, turned to Dennis Drazin, then the president of the horsemen's association, and said plaintively, "This isn't working."

Kulina and Drazin had sometimes been adversaries in negotiations, but they shared a love of the game as well the recognition that the sport's status quo couldn't be maintained.

"If we didn't adjust our product," Kulina said, "we were going to go out of business."
The issue is that Drazin told Kulina this 3 years ago but no one listened. Everyone in NJ knew that the racing at the Meadowlands was a huge mistake, even in 2007 when racing was moved there for the preparation of MP for the Breeders Cup. MP needs to rid itself of this 1982 image, get a good marketing department and go after the bettor now.

[andymays]

Does anyone want to revise their prediction? :lol:

I think they did pretty well today and the pick 5 carryover for tomorrow will help the Sunday handle.

[onefast99]

Does anyone want to revise their prediction? :lol:

I think they did pretty well today and the pick 5 carryover for tomorrow will help the Sunday handle.
4.2m in handle by the end of the 5th race! Go MP.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Kulina was heard saying, "My people tell me there are close to 19,000 people on track."

I really hope Monmouth can keep it up every weekend.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

On track $1,325,737

Off track $8,031,707

[onefast99]

Kulina was heard saying, "My people tell me there are close to 19,000 people on track."

I really hope Monmouth can keep it up every weekend.
It looked like a regular race day from the 10th thru the 13th. Where did everyone go?

[InsideThePylons-MW]

It looked like a regular race day from the 10th thru the 13th. Where did everyone go?

Bankroll reduction and ATM maximums reached.

[toussaud]

It looks like people are starting to figure out that New York may close. Monmouth will be up over 100% daily average handle from last year.


Monmouth is in the "garden spot".
garden spot for the garden state

[onefast99]

garden spot for the garden state
There was a lot on NY trainers there today including Todd and Gary C. I guess they figured the money is in NJ and NY is going to be just another track. By the way did anyone notice the small fields at Philly today, there were 5 and 6 horse fields only three races had 7 or more the 3rd, 6th and 9th.

[Tread]

OK, I was the only one who guessed correctly. What do I win?:liar:

[toussaud]

OK, I was the only one who guessed correctly. What do I win?:liar:


a one on one book reading of The Republic by Mike Battaglia

[Tread]

a one on one book reading of The Republic by Mike Battaglia

I'd like to change my guess please, can someone re-open the poll?

[thespaah]

The increase in handle is a bit surprising. The large crowd is a shocker.
Last meet Mth was getting maybe 8-9 thousand on Sats. nearly 18k is magnificent!

[PaceAdvantage]

It looks like people are starting to figure out that New York may close.Reality will prove otherwise.

[andymays]

Reality will prove otherwise.


I hope you're right but the situation should have never gotten this far.

[Rutgers]

I hope you're right but the situation should have never gotten this far.

Very true, but I think NYRA has a much brighter future then NJ racing does (or any other North American racing jurisdication).

[46zilzal]

Crist said in a DRF article he did not think it would last...We will see how it changes, if it does, racing.