What is wrong with racing?

[Cratos]

Eskendereya is retired, Rachel has temporary loss her pizzazz, Zenyatta appears to be loss in California, Super Saver and Looking at Lucky are skipping the Belmont, and Quality Road is on the mend again.

What is wrong with racing? I would appreciate an answer.

[JustRalph]

You're a Glass half empty kind of guy huh?

[sammy the sage]

and that Donna Barton finally reports as they're loading in the gate that S.S. looks a ""little"" withdrawn...PLEASE.

What a LOAD of crock...even DOG racing reports dog weights before EVERY race...so you know...and this WAS FROM 20 years ago...and they still do...

Wonder..j/geez,,,,would really go off here...but then P.A. or mod. would delete the thread...and it DOES DESERVE some discussion!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stillriledup]

and that Donna Barton finally reports as they're loading in the gate that S.S. looks a ""little"" withdrawn...PLEASE.

What a LOAD of crock...even DOG racing reports dog weights before EVERY race...so you know...and this WAS FROM 20 years ago...and they still do...

Wonder..j/geez,,,,would really go off here...but then P.A. or mod. would delete the thread...and it DOES DESERVE some discussion!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great call. we should know the weights, this is information that's obtainable. A one time purchase of a freight scale for every track will do the trick.

[ronsmac]

The horses are fragile today for some reason. They're are a ton of theories. Trainers today are also really sensitive to winning percentages today, so they're always looking for the right spot and don't race horses into shape as much as the used too. In the 70's and 80's and even the 90's , layoff horses didn't win nearly as much as they do now.

[NJ Stinks]

If racing had half a brain it could easily put on a Preakness Day type of card once a month. What made yesterday awesome IMO was the fact that horses shipped in from everywhere for those races - and not just the stakes races. If there was somebody in charge of racing on a national scale, one day could be organized that would energize racing monthly. (It doesn't have to be run at the big tracks every month either.) But it takes money for horses to ship and ample purses to make shipping worthwhile. The host track -along with money collected from other courses around the country - could fund the shipping and purses to make it all work. Spending money to make money comes to mind. It sure beats the idea of individual tracks investing in their own uncompetitive $50,000 stake that draws six or seven entries most Saturday afternoons. :sleeping: Bag the Saturday stake once a month and let's do something really great for a change!

Instead, currently we have each track drawing up it's own stakes schedule and to hell with conflicting stakes at other tracks. This watered down product produces little or no anticipation on the national scale outside the Triple Crown, the BC races, and Saratoga's Travers Day.

It's obvious that tracks around the country benefitted because of great card at Pimlico. Getting something organized so there is a reason for racing fans around the country to get excited about one card once a month does not seem like it should be a pipe dream.

But here we are.

[Robert Goren]

Nothing a trip to the butcher shop for some brains wouldn't cure.;)

[Dahoss9698]

Eskendereya is retired, Rachel has temporary loss her pizzazz, Zenyatta appears to be loss in California, Super Saver and Looking at Lucky are skipping the Belmont, and Quality Road is on the mend again.

What is wrong with racing? I would appreciate an answer.

We live in an era where losing is frowned upon more than not racing. I'm guilty of it myself sometimes. I know the breed is different, but can it be that much different than it was just 10 years ago?

I was hoping the economy and lackluster sales results would have changed things a bit, but it doesn't appear that way. 10-15 years ago Eskendereya would have been given months off and returned. In 2010 he gets retired. Somehow we got to a point where it's not even worth turning a hurt horse out for months to mend. Just retire, sign a stallion deal and try and get whatever you can financially.

The biggest issue I think is we do not have racing people running the sport right now.

[Robert Goren]

We live in an era where losing is frowned upon more than not racing. I'm guilty of it myself sometimes. I know the breed is different, but can it be that much different than it was just 10 years ago?

I was hoping the economy and lackluster sales results would have changed things a bit, but it doesn't appear that way. 10-15 years ago Eskendereya would have been given months off and returned. In 2010 he gets retired. Somehow we got to a point where it's not even worth turning a hurt horse out for months to mend. Just retire, sign a stallion deal and try and get whatever you can financially.

The biggest issue I think is we do not have racing people running the sport right now. Huh? It ain't the track managements or the gamblers who are sending him off to stud. It ain't them either who is going pay outrageous stud fee for horse who isn't even sound enough to get to the triple crown races. It is the "race horse people".JMO

[Dahoss9698]

Huh? It ain't the track managements or the gamblers who are sending him off to stud. It ain't them either who is going pay outrageous stud fee for horse who isn't even sound enough to get to the triple crown races. It is the "race horse people".JMO

Did you even read my post?

[lamboguy]

los alomidas just added to what is wrong with racing. if you run last in a 3yo and up race you automatically get $600. if you are a 2yo you get $400 for nothing. this is killing the game. i want to eliminate purse money for those that finish 3rd or worse. they have compounded the problem tonight.

people do not want to see uncompetive racing. you will get a million jose cabrera's mow in the quarter horse game now. it means no training for the horses, runining them when they shouldn't run with injury or sickness, just for the stupid money. so now you will have more hobo's in the game. you are giving me penalty's because i do the right thing for the horse, and the sport.

my partner, tony everard does everything he can to put out a good horse with good bottom's underneath them so they have less chance of getting injured.. once in awhile from doing the right thing we develop a future champion. we did it with funnycide, island fashion, instant friendship, fourstarallstar and dave, skip away, formal gold. these were all accidents that turned out good. how many guys are going to put the time and effort into horses that have little chance to make it as a baby if they can just run and be mediocre to get back their investment. we have a guy on this board that is a big owner that puts out good horses, musket man, school yard dreams, and others that have done well. if a horse breaks down infront of one of this guys horses trained by a hobo, you will lose a good owner. we have other guys that do the right thing with their horses on this board as well like silly goose stabiles. they put their money up and do the right thing.

[DeanT]

I think what killed racing is a loss of respect for the horse.

[DeanT]

I missed your post before mine Lambo. Everyone should read that. Wow, nice stuff, my friend.

The formula with yearlings imo is: Horse has talent, but is infirm. Woody Stephens gives time, {insert supertrainer name here} injects, because he knows if the horse can withstand it, there is a $40M stud check at the end of the rainbow. Then the horse, a half cripple, goes through the TC trail and does well enough to warrant big money, and is gone to stud.

Since the formula works, others do it, and around we go.

Injections instead of time. Vet work instead of a paddock. Respect for the animal is long gone in this game, and that is why we see horses drop like flies before they are barely three years old nowadays.

The press was trumpeting Pletcher having seven TC chances only three or four weeks ago. How many of them are left?

[Robert Goren]

Did you even read my post? :blush: I am sorry. I miss understood your post. When you said "racing people", I though you meant horse people. By the way, who did you mean?

[Dahoss9698]

:blush: I am sorry. I miss understood your post. When you said "racing people", I though you meant horse people. By the way, who did you mean?

We'd be a lot better off if gamblers were running things. I'm not exactly sure who horse people are. But they aren't running things. Track managements deserve some blame. Is there any reason why we see essentially the same stake race at 3 different tracks on the same weekend?

We need people who are knowledgeable about the sport in charge. Having money doesn't make you knowledgeable as we have seen. When I referred to racing people I mean the people in charge. They are clueless.

[duncan04]

Clean up the drugs. Other countries have no drugs and they are doing just fine.

[Robert Goren]

What gets me is them all running at the same time as well as the same day.

[Stillriledup]

The biggest problem i see is that current racing leadership is neglecting the current customers in order to try and grow a 'new crop' of young 20 somethings who will somehow, magically, become lifelong fans of the game.

The leadership correctly believes that most horseplayers will continue to patronize the game because of the gambling 'rush' that they are selling at a very high price. Most horseplayers will keep coming back, once its in your blood, you cant get it out and the racetrack owners know this and that's why they treat current customers like drug addicts coming in for their 'fix'. As Colin Cowherd once said, "this is why Crack is never on sale".

BUT, i think what racetrack leadership is missing is that the current customers are the ones who will 'cultivate' new racing fans. But, those current customers know how they have been treated over the years and they won't bring newbies to the track because they wouldnt dare subject someone they like or respect to this sport knowing how THEY have been treated over the years.

Current racing customers aren't telling their friends and family, "you should really become a racing fan, you'll be treated great!" No one is saying that. And that's why racing won't be able to grow. In order for great growth, current customers have to be totally satisfied. Racing misses the mark badly in the satisfaction department.

[Tom]

I think what killed racing is a loss of respect for the horse.

And the customer.

[NJ Stinks]

BUT, i think what racetrack leadership is missing is that the current customers are the ones who will 'cultivate' new racing fans. But, those current customers know how they have been treated over the years and they won't bring newbies to the track because they wouldnt dare subject someone they like or respect to this sport knowing how THEY have been treated over the years.

Current racing customers aren't telling their friends and family, "you should really become a racing fan, you'll be treated great!" No one is saying that. And that's why racing won't be able to grow. In order for great growth, current customers have to be totally satisfied. Racing misses the mark badly in the satisfaction department.

If takeout is part of "customer satisfaction", bingo. I've been playing the races for over 40 years and stopped trying to "recruit" family and friends by 1985. I wouldn't recommend any gambling that includes a 20% takeout. I may be one of those racing "addicts" you mentioned but I'm certainly not going to try to sell it to anyone else. Those days are long gone.

[kenwoodall2]

Politicians, executives, breeders, horsemen, trainers, track officials, ADW rebate givers, horseplayers, and anyone else WHO CHEATS.
Labor costs; Kentucky greed; The media who publicizes the cheaters but do not give unlimited free advertising to the public.
Now, what tracks do everything right? Wht do some trainers, owners, and horseplayers stay in the game into their 80's and 90's?

[rrbauer]

los alomidas just added to what is wrong with racing. if you run last in a 3yo and up race you automatically get $600. if you are a 2yo you get $400 for nothing. this is killing the game. i want to eliminate purse money for those that finish 3rd or worse. they have compounded the problem tonight.

.

All the CA tracks have been paying "appearance fees" for six (6) years to those horses that do not earn purse money. It was CA's way of dishing out the 1/2 point exotic takeout increase to help subsidize the workers comp costs. Other tracks at other venues use a similar method to spread around the subsidies from slots' revenue. Imagine what field sizes would be if these payments weren't being made.

[Stillriledup]

If takeout is part of "customer satisfaction", bingo. I've been playing the races for over 40 years and stopped trying to "recruit" family and friends by 1985. I wouldn't recommend any gambling that includes a 20% takeout. I may be one of those racing "addicts" you mentioned but I'm certainly not going to try to sell it to anyone else. Those days are long gone.

Yes, lower takeout is totally part of my customer satisfaction rant. People aren't running to Wal Mart to pay Saks Fifth Avenue prices, but in racing, the prices are all the same, whether you bet on a grade 1 Breeders Cup race, or a 5k claimer on a rainy Tuesday at Laurel Park, the bets are all priced the same. A one time, "take it or leave it" extremely high price.

[Cratos]

You're a Glass half empty kind of guy huh?

I didn’t understand your response (please explain), but the other responses within this thread were great and it would be even greater if the “powers” in racing would logon to this website and read them.

[PaceAdvantage]

Wonder..j/geez,,,,would really go off here...but then P.A. or mod. would delete the thread...and it DOES DESERVE some discussion!!!!!!!!!!!!Don't make yourself sound more silly than you already do...stop seeing boogeymen where there are none...valid threads don't get deleted...

[skate]

yah, i'll vouch for that.

[46zilzal]

Clean up the drugs. Other countries have no drugs and they are doing just fine.
Fine? they are growing everywhere but in NA

[Tom]

There are lots of drugs in use everywhere. Don't kid yourself.
Go listen to the hour long discussion at ATR with Byk....I'll even email him and ask if has the date of the broadcast.

[jasperson]

The biggest problem i see is that current racing leadership is neglecting the current customers in order to try and grow a 'new crop' of young 20 somethings who will somehow, magically, become lifelong fans of the game.

The leadership correctly believes that most horseplayers will continue to patronize the game because of the gambling 'rush' that they are selling at a very high price. Most horseplayers will keep coming back, once its in your blood, you cant get it out and the racetrack owners know this and that's why they treat current customers like drug addicts coming in for their 'fix'. As Colin Cowherd once said, "this is why Crack is never on sale".

BUT, i think what racetrack leadership is missing is that the current customers are the ones who will 'cultivate' new racing fans. But, those current customers know how they have been treated over the years and they won't bring newbies to the track because they wouldnt dare subject someone they like or respect to this sport knowing how THEY have been treated over the years.


Current racing customers aren't telling their friends and family, "you should really become a racing fan, you'll be treated great!" No one is saying that. And that's why racing won't be able to grow. In order for great growth, current customers have to be totally satisfied. Racing misses the mark badly in the satisfaction department.
I second this opinion and it addresses my feeling about track management. Here at Lonestar Park we have a track that is making money and they are supporting casinos for Texas. Casinos are not the answer because slot players mind numbed robots and will never become horse players. It is because track management doesn't know how to promote horse racing that they look to casinos to prop up there income. Casinos are the seeds of the demise of horse racing. Why because nobody wants to put money into a losing venture like passenger service on the railroads,public transportion in the cities etc.:bang: :bang:

[Stillriledup]

Eskendereya is retired, Rachel has temporary loss her pizzazz, Zenyatta appears to be loss in California, Super Saver and Looking at Lucky are skipping the Belmont, and Quality Road is on the mend again.

What is wrong with racing? I would appreciate an answer.

This has nothing to do with what's wrong with racing. Its all about overpriced bets and racing's refusal to do something about it.

[Cratos]

This has nothing to do with what's wrong with racing. Its all about overpriced bets and racing's refusal to do something about it.

If you think so, then racing is in good shape and NYRA and NY OTB have never been in better financial shape.

[Stillriledup]

If you think so, then racing is in good shape and NYRA and NY OTB have never been in better financial shape.

I think the prices of bets are too expensive (takeout too high). Racing very seldom has 'sales' on bets. Wal mart has sales, Target has sales, Macys has sales, racetracks have zero sales on bets. They'll give you a 50% off on admission or parking on occasion, but never 50% of on today's third race exacta.

Last i checked, its a bad economy and in a bad economy, businesses are having sales in order to generate revenue and get customers in the door. Racing, no such thing and i believe that is the biggest thing 'wrong' with horse racing's ability to grow and thrive.

[lamboguy]

los alomidas just added to what is wrong with racing. if you run last in a 3yo and up race you automatically get $600. if you are a 2yo you get $400 for nothing. this is killing the game. i want to eliminate purse money for those that finish 3rd or worse. they have compounded the problem tonight.

people do not want to see uncompetive racing. you will get a million jose cabrera's mow in the quarter horse game now. it means no training for the horses, runining them when they shouldn't run with injury or sickness, just for the stupid money. so now you will have more hobo's in the game. you are giving me penalty's because i do the right thing for the horse, and the sport.

my partner, tony everard does everything he can to put out a good horse with good bottom's underneath them so they have less chance of getting injured.. once in awhile from doing the right thing we develop a future champion. we did it with funnycide, island fashion, instant friendship, fourstarallstar and dave, skip away, formal gold. these were all accidents that turned out good. how many guys are going to put the time and effort into horses that have little chance to make it as a baby if they can just run and be mediocre to get back their investment. we have a guy on this board that is a big owner that puts out good horses, musket man, school yard dreams, and others that have done well. if a horse breaks down infront of one of this guys horses trained by a hobo, you will lose a good owner. we have other guys that do the right thing with their horses on this board as well like silly goose stabiles. they put their money up and do the right thing.
this same thing is now happening at the great monmouth meet, they are giving away $1500 to finish last on the bottom. how stupid can these guys be?