Form Points book

[Capper Al]

Last time I was in the PA forum, someone mentioned a book that numerically measured form. Does anyone know the book? Thanks.

[thaskalos]

Tom Hembleton's forgettable effort into systematizing the form factor. My advice would be to pass on it...

[Handiman]

Not very good overall. I have it but pretty much useless. But I won't let it go, as I never get rid of handicapping material I find.

Handi:)

[Capper Al]

Thanks.

[Dick Schmidt]

I'm quite familiar with this book that Tom put out a few years ago. Though Tom did all the writing, I helped him edit it and wrote the introduction. It was written just when people were first amassing large databases of racing data and it was run through some of them. Other ideas come from Tom's observations of racing.

Note that those who didn't like the book didn't suggest a better alternative. This is one of the most difficult things to attempt to do and have the results accurately reflect the horse's current condition. Tom is an astute handicapper and this book is a real good place to start if you want to use form in a computer program. These days almost everyone has a larger database than we used back in the day, but many of the ideas Tom presents still stand up. Others are dated, such as the layoff conditions. Horses lay off a lot more than they used to.

Anyway, if you can find one, it is well worth the price. If nothing else, proving what is right and wrong with the book will sharpen your handicapping skills.

Dick


If by some fiat I had to restrict all this writing to one sentence, this is the one I would choose: The summit of Mt. Everest is marine limestone.

- John McPhee

Basin and Range

[Handiman]

Dick,

As I said, I found a copy some time ago in the "vault' or backroom as many people call it at Gambler's Book Club in Las Vegas. While I didn't feel that the numbers stood up in today's handicapping world, I do appreciate the effort that went into it.

I didn't find it useful, but I do treasure it as I have an affinity for books, especially those concerning Horse Racing. I guess I'm responding to your post as the result of some guilt feelings for throwing around the term useless in reference to Tom's work.

I didn't mean to demean his work, it's just as I said, the numbers just didn't seem to stand up to today's conditions. There are quite a few items put out by charlatans in Horse Racing, but Tom and your work definitely does not fit that category, and I didn't mean to make it sound as if it did.

Regards,
Handi:)

[thaskalos]

I'm quite familiar with this book that Tom put out a few years ago. Though Tom did all the writing, I helped him edit it and wrote the introduction. It was written just when people were first amassing large databases of racing data and it was run through some of them. Other ideas come from Tom's observations of racing.

Note that those who didn't like the book didn't suggest a better alternative. This is one of the most difficult things to attempt to do and have the results accurately reflect the horse's current condition. Tom is an astute handicapper and this book is a real good place to start if you want to use form in a computer program. These days almost everyone has a larger database than we used back in the day, but many of the ideas Tom presents still stand up. Others are dated, such as the layoff conditions. Horses lay off a lot more than they used to.

Anyway, if you can find one, it is well worth the price. If nothing else, proving what is right and wrong with the book will sharpen your handicapping skills.

Dick


If by some fiat I had to restrict all this writing to one sentence, this is the one I would choose: The summit of Mt. Everest is marine limestone.

- John McPhee

Basin and Range The reasons I didn't suggest an alternative book were (A) because CapperAl didn't ask for one, and (B) I didn't think it was necessary. Any handicapping book worth its salt includes a decent chapter on what constitutes acceptable form.

IMO - and I have been playing this game seriously for 30 years - there are MUCH better ways of assessing a horse's form than by assigning "form points" which are based on mechanical rules.

[crestridge]

Thaskalos

Would it be possible for you to elaborate on "better ways to formulate form"? What are the elements you utilize? Thanks.

[fast4522]

I myself would love to find this book, "Pace Makes The Race" was superb for not only content but style of how it was presented with learning examples. Any book that Dick and Tom worked on I want to try out and read. Here is the thing, few are willing to do or use as intended, thus never grasping the potential of the work. Greater yet lays the footsteps for the next level which certainly has not been taken advantage of today. I will look for this work and call around to find it.

[thaskalos]

Thaskalos

Would it be possible for you to elaborate on "better ways to formulate form"? What are the elements you utilize? Thanks. I never felt that there was a reason to try to "formulate form". IMO, a horse's form is either acceptable or it's not. It never made sense to me to rate each horse's form numerically, based on "form angles" reminiscent of the old-time horseracing "systems" which were published in horseracing magazines decades ago.

In my own handicapping I try to answer two questions about each horse whose past performances I analyze. (1) How good is the horse when it's at its best? And (2) Is the horse capable of delivering his best performance today, given its current ability as it compares to that of the rest of the field, and to the dynamics of the race as it figures to unfold.

My prefered method for determining the ability of the horses in a race, is a combination of pace and class.

[thaskalos]

I myself would love to find this book, "Pace Makes The Race" was superb for not only content but style of how it was presented with learning examples. Any book that Dick and Tom worked on I want to try out and read. Here is the thing, few are willing to do or use as intended, thus never grasping the potential of the work. Greater yet lays the footsteps for the next level which certainly has not been taken advantage of today. I will look for this work and call around to find it. The book "Pace Makes The Race", (the large paperback), is one of the very best handicapping books I have ever read, both for its content and its high level of integrity. I have bought multiple copies, and have given them out to interested friends.

[headhawg]

I myself would love to find this book, "Pace Makes The Race" was superb for not only content but style of how it was presented with learning examples. Any book that Dick and Tom worked on I want to try out and read... I will look for this work and call around to find it.Dick posts here semi-regularly so you might just want to PM him to see if he has any copies left.

[ranchwest]

I look at Hambleton form points, Handi FM points (as I understood them) and Scott Form factors. The combination along with many other handicapping factors gives me a "picture" of the horse.

I'd say, though, that Hambleton form points are not a very good stand-alone aid.

[fast4522]

Stand alone just means the desire for black box, the content of the work can be judged like the eye of the beholder. If Dick has a copy to sell I just need the address and amount to mail a check.

[fmolf]

i am not familiar with "form points"but i have been using scott's form factors for 20 some odd years with just a few modifications to reflect the changing game in his rules on recency and race to race improvement.

[crestridge]

fmolf

Are you familiar with Fast Fred, the software based on "Scotts" ideas? If so, have they (form pts) been useful? Maybe someone else has some thoughts?

[delayjf]

but many of the ideas Tom presents still stand up

Curious, which ideas to you feel are still valid?

[Force of One]

I would concur about the Scott book (the one I am thinking of is "How Will Your Horse Run Today"). I found that book very helpful to my handicapping when I read it. I think it is also a very good spot-play approach if you are playing an unfamilar track - not that I recommend that type of play as a rule.

The "bullet 5 furlong work" point has paid for the book many times over for me, often at a nice price.