When will we hit bottom?

[ArlJim78]

I tend to agree with everything said in this piece (http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/05/let_it_burn.html). Essentially the author makes the claim that over the past 100 years Americans have slowly become addicted to government, and just like a junkie, nothing will really change until we hit bottom.
I wish it weren't true but I'm afraid it is. We're on an unsustainable course and there is so much inertia in the system that the ship will hit the iceberg before it can turn to avoid it.
__________________________________________________ _______


Often, one carefully articulated analogy can succinctly convey a very complex idea. In our case, that analogy is addiction. Over the past hundred years, we have slowly allowed a monstrous system of dependence to develop until nearly every citizen relies upon government money (http://#), and thus is an addict. This has come about because the hard logic of the Founders has been replaced by the seductive ease of emotional arguments. All too often, the debate is over not if government should do something, but what it should do. This almost imperceptible shift in our national philosophy is a manifestation of our addiction.


While the citizen-addict is hooked on government largesse, the politician-addict is hooked on something far more sinister: power. Their drug is available in Washington, D.C. Just as a dealer will go to any length to continue selling his wares, politicians will stop at nothing to retain their power. These two groups of addicts are locked in mutual co-dependence, where the politician-addict seeking re-election buys off the citizen-addict with more spending. Then the citizen-addict, seeking yet another free lunch from Washington, reelects the politician-addict. The result is endless, ever-expanding government programs and our current fiscal nightmare.
___________________________________
more at the link.

[sonnyp]

unfortunately, i have to agree with the premise. i look back on the "evolution" of society during my lifetime in this country. i see the individualism, backbone and moral fiber of my grandparents, both sets having immigrated from western europe. i see the politics and work ethic of my parent's generation which fought valid world wars and who's SELFLESSNESS and commitment to STRONG FAMILY LIFE made this country a world leader in every area. our position was based on substance and productivity and everyone who was willing to contribute was rewarded with "a piece of the pie".

then, i believe in the early 60's, things in this country began to change. the politicians turned to shit, mom and pop business got run out by corporations, an honest day's work was replaced by a shop steward representing a crooked union and all of a sudden a man's word and doing the right thing became looked upon as the behavior of only "suckers".

the movers and the shakers, the con men the pilferers, the greedy corporate ceo's and phony politicians lining their pockets at the expense of honest hardworkig "suckers" became those admired and envied.

our family life deteriorated based on the teaching that a women who broke her back to be a good homemaker and mother was a demeaning position for her and an injustice to her sex.

everything that was provided by individuals and individual families in the past was gladly taken over by the government and all we had to do was give them more power and more taxes.

you got kids ? don't worry, the government will feed educate and provide medical. done. you got aging infirmed parents ? don't worry the government will take care of them. done. you want to buy a house, go to college ? governments got it. done.

as individuals, we've sold our soles because we have been willing to surrender what amounts to 2 words, "personal responsibility". let the government take care of it. what we didn't realize was we were being sold a lousy set of goods.

instead of independent citizens, we now find ourselves as victims of runaway government. one that is no longer of, by and for the people but in spite of the people. the government legislates,prosecutes, spends money, sends our kids to war under suspicious circumstances and our only response is a tea party.

on the whole we are now suffering thru what other great societies have suffered through in history. we have found the enemy and it is us.

what exists in this country today, led by the government in washington....democrat, republican, conservative and liberal all rotten to the core has been allowed to evolve and passively condoned by a culture of "letting someone else do it".

i look at the people calling the shots in this country today and i think it's a bad joke. but it's really no joke, it's reality and it's the same rough road that the "great societies" before us traveled down.

none of those "empires" survived on the level they once sustained. it is going to be a critical few years which lie ahead because, imho, we have reached the crossroad in this country's existence as we have known it.

[boxcar]

I tend to agree with everything said in this piece (http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/05/let_it_burn.html). Essentially the author makes the claim that over the past 100 years Americans have slowly become addicted to government, and just like a junkie, nothing will really change until we hit bottom.
I wish it weren't true but I'm afraid it is. We're on an unsustainable course and there is so much inertia in the system that the ship will hit the iceberg before it can turn to avoid it.

The Americanthinker is spot on. I have often referred to socialism as an addictive drug on this forum -- a drug with pernicious side effects that can be deadly to a society as a whole (see Greece) when taken over a prolonged period. Socialism is like a narcotic -- the more we use as a nation, the more we want of it. The megabytes of irony with socialism (liberalism) is that liberals (a/k/a "progressives") love to portray themselves as the stewards of all morality -- of all that is good --for others (which makes them First Class Hypocrites). Yet socialism inevitably must destroy the moral fabric of society because it tramples on man's inalienable rights talked about in the Declaration -- rights that can come only from God. But liberals being, generally, godless as they are supplant those rights with their own manufactured varieties, e.g. "civil rights", "human rights", etc.. In turn, these artificial "rights" when enacted through laws distort not only God's laws but Reality as we all know it because these laws pervert what is normal, common and natural in nature by attempting to make all men equal in all respects via equal outcomes for all. As seen earlier, this is perverted; for none of us are equal nor can we be equal in any kind of civil or societal ways because our Creator created us all uniquely different. Just as fingerprints are all uniquely different, likewise no two people are alike. We are Individuals. This fact distinguishes us humans from mere machines and even from lower forms of life. And ultimately, this fact alone, makes socialism a perversion of nature because a society built solely on man-made rights is nothing more than a house of cards that eventually must fall.

Therefore, socialism is a killer. It kills the human spirit through the destruction of our self-esteem and self-worth, which in turn is accomplished through the destruction of our self-motivation and self-reliance, which as I have shown previously is naturally cultivated in nature. Young birds eventually leave their nests. Bear cubs will eventually strike out on their own. Children will eventually leave their homes, etc., etc. It's the natural way of things. Independent existence on a horizontal plane (even within communities such as a whale pod) is what God intended for all his creation, and this is precisely what we find, especially with the higher forms of life.

Boxcar

[casterlink]

Substitute religion for socialism and your post still has merit.

[46zilzal]

EVERY government that tried EMPIRE acquisition has failed....You are witness to it happening again as the rest of the world wakes up.

[rastajenk]

So, who is in EMPIRE acquisition mode right now?

[46zilzal]

So, who is in EMPIRE acquisition mode right now?
In one way or another, all of Asia

[boxcar]

Substitute religion for socialism and your post still has merit.

Not when you consider biblical Christianity.

Boxcar

[ArlJim78]

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.

Alexis de Tocqueville

[casterlink]

Respectfully disagree, Christianity is no more innocent than any other.

[Robert Goren]

You guys make me sick. If you don't like it here, get the hell out. And don't forget to renounce your citizenship on the way out. America is the best country on earth and it only gets better everyday.

[GaryG]

You guys make me sick. If you don't like it here, get the hell out. And don't forget to renounce your citizenship on the way out. America is the best country on earth and it only gets better everyday.Example of this please? As I see it it is only getting better if you are an alien intruder or one of the shiftless beneficiaries of the welfare state.

[ArlJim78]

nice try Robert, nobody said anything about not liking America or wanting to leave.

what sickens me is when so many liberals like you want to stick your head in the sand and not address the problems. there us no way to sustain our current course of massive accumulation of debt, and this experiment with giant social programs will not end well for us. I'm not sure why you think that I have to renounce my citizenship and leave for merely saying what is plainly obvious.

[sonnyp]

You guys make me sick. If you don't like it here, get the hell out. And don't forget to renounce your citizenship on the way out. America is the best country on earth and it only gets better everyday.

i have applied for and acquired dual citizenship in the homeland of my grandparents. interesting observation by the consulate thru which i gained the dual citizenship," 100 years ago they were all looking to come here....now we are buried by applications from their grandchildren to go back".

since you're so vocal with your advice let me give you some. get your head out of your ass and start seeing this for what is instead of what you imagine. it's fools like you that have facilitated what the politicians and corporations have done to this country.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... I'm not sure why you think that I have to renounce my citizenship and leave for merely saying what is plainly obvious.

Well, what could possibly be more anti-American than voicing your opinion?

[lamboguy]

nice try Robert, nobody said anything about not liking America or wanting to leave.

what sickens me is when so many liberals like you want to stick your head in the sand and not address the problems. there us no way to sustain our current course of massive accumulation of debt, and this experiment with giant social programs will not end well for us. I'm not sure why you think that I have to renounce my citizenship and leave for merely saying what is plainly obvious.
why knock this guy when your own conservetive guy george bush gave out welfare to the large corporations and steamrolled the national debt. its the same type of social programs, only one goes to the greedy people that already have plenty that have ruined this place to begin with and the other goes to the less fortunate people that have not been able to cope with this society.


by the numbers, george bush brought the dollar down from 126 to 72, i suspect that this president will bring it down even lower. that is what i go by instead of the nonsense about liberals or conservetives being good or no good. they are the same and the sooner we learn that the better this place will be.


you cannot and have no comeback to this arguement, because the markets are the final arbitrator to this whole scheme.

[Tom]

Bobby, we are going to stay and liberate this country from the secular/socialist machine that is ruining it every day. The Obama machine.

[fast4522]

Just look at the individual States like California that are bankrupt, the people growing marijuana are making a good living spreading liberal filth across the land. California is in worse shape than Greece and we should listen to that cartload of aholes on what we should do in the heartland of this country. To reverse the curse gripping our country the marijuana crops grown in California as medical whatever should be burned. The crops are bumper good and are becoming a major suppler to parts outside California now. Apply the same logic to Afghanistan and scorch the earth so no opiates can grow there for 100 years and we will not lose another brave warrior from our young and cut the cost of the war by 100 times. You people think there is actually a bottom? Did your grandparents ever tell you the more you dig the more you chase? WTFU!

[skate]

So, who is in EMPIRE acquisition mode right now?

why, a , Chengis Khan, with a most stable political system and so early in the game.

[skate]

EVERY government that tried EMPIRE acquisition has failed....You are witness to it happening again as the rest of the world wakes up.

Man oh man, "left field" has Nothing on Zilly, go zill...:sleeping:

[skate]

In one way or another, all of Asia


Hey now, look at that... it is Chengis, by god.:)

[jballscalls]

what sickens me is when so many liberals like you want to stick your head in the sand and not address the problems. there us no way to sustain our current course of massive accumulation of debt, and this experiment with giant social programs will not end well for us. I'm not sure why you think that I have to renounce my citizenship and leave for merely saying what is plainly obvious.

you say liberals bury their head in the sand which i can understand, but it doesn't seem as though conservative politicians have done anything to shrink gov't recently or even make it more efficient. maybe they have and i'm missing it, but i know in the previous administration there wasnt much conservative spending. (i know there will be republican talking point accomplishments listed in response, which i hope to see)

It just seems the conservative and liberal parties both spend so much time blaming the others for problems in America. If one party really advanced the country and made things better for all Americans, wouldn't they stay in power?? yet the way it seems to go is one party gets power, does nothing effective, then the other party takes over, and wham bam slam, it happens again.

I only follow politics very lightly and really only have for 4 years or so, but from reading news, history books, and back here at PA, it seems neither of the parties will move things forward. they just all make promises and then dont deliver.

no matter who is in charge, somebody will bitch and complain. that's all that really goes on back here is people trying to one up the other team. nothing is ever really accomplished, nobody's minds are changed, its like fifth graders arguing over who's tree fort is cooler and why.

All that said, America is awesome and i feel it is getting better in many ways, but also worse in many ways. But even that is interpretation. What Tom thinks is good for America I may think is bad, and what he thinks is bad, i may think is good.

In the end I think we all just want something to bitch about. I mean without conflict, we'd all be pretty bored

[boxcar]

you say liberals bury their head in the sand which i can understand, but it doesn't seem as though conservative politicians have done anything to shrink gov't recently or even make it more efficient. maybe they have and i'm missing it, but i know in the previous administration there wasnt much conservative spending. (i know there will be republican talking point accomplishments listed in response, which i hope to see)

It just seems the conservative and liberal parties both spend so much time blaming the others for problems in America. If one party really advanced the country and made things better for all Americans, wouldn't they stay in power?? yet the way it seems to go is one party gets power, does nothing effective, then the other party takes over, and wham bam slam, it happens again.

I only follow politics very lightly and really only have for 4 years or so, but from reading news, history books, and back here at PA, it seems neither of the parties will move things forward. they just all make promises and then dont deliver.

no matter who is in charge, somebody will bitch and complain. that's all that really goes on back here is people trying to one up the other team. nothing is ever really accomplished, nobody's minds are changed, its like fifth graders arguing over who's tree fort is cooler and why.

All that said, America is awesome and i feel it is getting better in many ways, but also worse in many ways. But even that is interpretation. What Tom thinks is good for America I may think is bad, and what he thinks is bad, i may think is good.

In the end I think we all just want something to bitch about. I mean without conflict, we'd all be pretty bored

I'm sure the upcoming Depression will keep your time well occupied, as you're scurrying around to feed yourselves with crumbs and scraps. That should keep your life interesting just for starters.

Boxcar

[sonnyp]

these guys with this"it could never happen here mentality" make me laugh.

they act like they're scoring points in a friggin highschool debate.

they just don't grasp the reality of this situation. i guess it's like being on the titanic and you're curious about what's on the breakfast menu tomorrow.

[GaryG]

Jballs - We have not had a conservative in the WH since Reagan. Bush 1.0 and Bush 2.0 were both a disgrace. But even so, just look how Barry Hussein is shoveling out the cash. Now a multi-bil bailout for teachers??? TEACHERS???

[ArlJim78]

you say liberals bury their head in the sand which i can understand, but it doesn't seem as though conservative politicians have done anything to shrink gov't recently or even make it more efficient. maybe they have and i'm missing it, but i know in the previous administration there wasnt much conservative spending. (i know there will be republican talking point accomplishments listed in response, which i hope to see)

It just seems the conservative and liberal parties both spend so much time blaming the others for problems in America. If one party really advanced the country and made things better for all Americans, wouldn't they stay in power?? yet the way it seems to go is one party gets power, does nothing effective, then the other party takes over, and wham bam slam, it happens again.

I only follow politics very lightly and really only have for 4 years or so, but from reading news, history books, and back here at PA, it seems neither of the parties will move things forward. they just all make promises and then dont deliver.

no matter who is in charge, somebody will bitch and complain. that's all that really goes on back here is people trying to one up the other team. nothing is ever really accomplished, nobody's minds are changed, its like fifth graders arguing over who's tree fort is cooler and why.
didn't post this to bitch and complain. just to point out that it looks to me like there are some ominous dark clouds on the horizon, and in my opinion I think the author is correct in that nothing much can be done about it at this point.

when the dollar devalues and our economy collapses under the crushing weight of what is now around $60 trillion dollars of public debt, I predict that it won't seem like a fifth grade argument to you at that point.

what people don't seem to understand is that there is nothing that guarantees that America remains a strong healthy world power. we are our own worst enemy.

[boxcar]

Jballs - We have not had a conservative in the WH since Reagan. Bush 1.0 and Bush 2.0 were both a disgrace. But even so, just look how Barry Hussein is shoveling out the cash. Now a multi-bil bailout for teachers??? TEACHERS???

Why are you surprised? Teachers unions are there to prevent teachers from failing.

Boxcar

[plainolebill]

Too frickin' late, the party is over, you just haven't cottoned to the fact we're a plutocracy now. All the quibbling is just over the crumbs. Greed rules this country.

Next election will be just like the last, couple of pretty faces with hundred buck haircuts, a huge pile of money from the big boys and the same agenda: Milking the cow for all it's worth without bothering to feed it.

You think teachers unions are the problem? See quibbling above.

[skate]

Next election will be just like the last, couple of pretty faces with hundred buck haircuts, a huge pile of money from the big boys and the same agenda: Milking the cow for all it's worth without bothering to feed it.

You think teachers unions are the problem? See quibbling above.

i agree, cept, when you imply unions are not the problem, you think.

not the same, if you were to say that the teachers union is "a part" of the problem, since schools are not doing a good job and they are costing more each and every year, now and in the future.


What i like about skate, he always has the solution.

[Robert Goren]

Jballs - We have not had a conservative in the WH since Reagan. Bush 1.0 and Bush 2.0 were both a disgrace. But even so, just look how Barry Hussein is shoveling out the cash. Now a multi-bil bailout for teachers??? TEACHERS???I don't think you find a liberals claiming either of the Bushes. They may or may not have been as conservative as you like, but somebody had to vote for them and I think can safely say it wasn't the liberals.

[bigmack]

I think can safely say it wasn't the liberals.
You'z guys were dumb enough to bundle your votes to get Mr. Hope 'n Change in. That should seal the deal preventing another Dem getting elected for at least another 8-12 years. :D

[boxcar]

I don't think you find a liberals claiming either of the Bushes. They may or may not have been as conservative as you like, but somebody had to vote for them and I think can safely say it wasn't the liberals.

Why would a liberal in the Dem party claim either of the Bushes? You really need to pay attention better. As discussed on another occasion, it would do the parties more harm than good to identify themselves with their opponents. This really does make sense if you try hard to put your mind to it.

Boxcar

[hazzardm]

Just look at the individual States like California that are bankrupt, the people growing marijuana are making a good living spreading liberal filth across the land. California is in worse shape than Greece and we should listen to that cartload of aholes on what we should do in the heartland of this country. To reverse the curse gripping our country the marijuana crops grown in California as medical whatever should be burned. The crops are bumper good and are becoming a major suppler to parts outside California now.

Yes that's it! We will reduce the deficit by spending even more. Let's throw the pot smokers in prision, and hire more prison guards. :lol:

[Hank]

Example of this please? As I see it it is only getting better if you are an alien intruder or one of the shiftless beneficiaries of the welfare state.


75% of all the economy's growth went to the wealthiest 1% of of population in the last 4 years.Things are getting a lot better for the economic elite,but the mouth breathing masses are very effectively propagandized not to notice,predisposition to prejudicial views and low IQ makes this extremely easy for them to accomplish.

[JustRalph]

75% of all the economy's growth went to the wealthiest 1% of of population in the last 4 years.Things are getting a lot better for the economic elite,but the mouth breathing masses are very effectively propagandized not to notice,predisposition to prejudicial views and low IQ makes this extremely easy for them to accomplish.

you gotta have a source for that outlandish statement ???

[riskman]

You'z guys were dumb enough to bundle your votes to get Mr. Hope 'n Change in. That should seal the deal preventing another Dem getting elected for at least another 8-12 years. :D

There goes that word again"dumb" and variations such as bonehead, chump, dolt, idiot, knucklehead, fool, and on and on. Damn, what are we to do with all these simple simons that populate the board ? The acclaimed sage of politics has struck again and will show us the way of repentance.

[Tom]

Hank, talk to me about unions.

No wait, I will talk to you.

Nearby Brockport Police union agreed to a 2% pay cut for one year, because the city is in danger of going bankrupt. But, in the contract, the union got a little ditty added. For all with an ASS degree ( all of them) an anual 2% bonus. 3% for a BS degree, 4% for an MS, and 5% for a PHD.
So, the first year, break even, and after that, a raise.

[fast4522]

With the economic problems across the country would it not be better to face problems sober and straight? Just where do you think the fundamental wack jobs get the money tor killing Americans from, the poppy fields. Wipe out the crops completely and they have much less money for war right? Not everyone has a right to survive, some of you think so especially after a few joints right. Lock up uncle Ted because he is always stoned, No. Just shut the whole mother down, screw the left.