What's your Travers opinion?

[Observer]

Has the Haskell sharpened Point Given, or did it show he's a horse that will be beaten in the Travers?

[Rick Ransom]

Point Given is the best horse but there's no value there to win. I like the exacta better. I'll take Point Given/Scorpion, Point Given/Free of Love, and Scorpion/Free of Love. If you must make a win bet, make it Scorpion.

[tanda]

I am anxious to see Dollar Bill. I wonder when Stewart will realize this is not a Grade I horse? And the media as well.

The press talks about his bad luck. Well, slow horses get shuffled back, boxed in and run wide. It is not bad luck, it is a horse with no tactical speed.

Pat Day made one of the dumbest comments I have ever heard. It calls into serious question his knowledge of the sport. After losing the Preakness, he complained that once again Dollar Bill had bad luck and then expressed his desire to get the horse some luck. His very next comment was that A. P. Valentine beat his horse to a hole and secured better position and that is why A.P. finished second.

Geez Pat, do you think that maybe Dollar Bill's inability to run fast and grab that hole has something to do with his "bad luck"? Apparently, Pat lacks the basic intelligence to realize the connection between his explanation of the race and the horse's luck. After all the comments were only made one right after the other.

Maybe I am being unfair. Maybe he is not stupid ... just drinking again.

[PaceAdvantage]

I think the Haskell proved that Point Given is not a superhorse. He's going to be wearing a bar shoe again, correct?? Baffert has never been HIGH on sending him to the Travers. Seems to me THIS is the time to beat him.

Point Given will be on my Pick 4 ticket, but he is no single, that's for sure.

Check out the home page if you want to see my numbers for the whole card......



==PA

[Rick Ransom]

tanda,

I agree with you about Pat Day. I've always hated to see him on my horse in a big race because he seems to find a lot of ways to lose, especially in large fields. The public and TV commentators love him though.

[Lefty]

Im reading this after race. The big horse doesn't make it
look easy but, once again, bad foot and all, he gets the
job done. Maybe not great but gutsy good.

[PaceAdvantage]

Actually, it looked really easy after he switched leads...LOL


I have a hard time getting behind a horse who wins a lot of races, wins them impressively, gets the public behind him, but fails to put up the monster speed figures that most truly great champions have done in the past....

I hate to overuse this cliche, but could Point Given simply be the best of a fairly mediocre but QUITE EVENLY matched crop??

==PA

[Tuffmug]

PA,

Why give 100% when you can win with 95% effort! Baffert pointing him towards the BC and wants a fresh horse.
You always have to look at any numbers (yours, Beyers, velocity, turn time,etc.) and ask " Is that all the horse has to give or is there more left in the tank?".

[Tom]

I hate to overuse this cliche, but could Point Given simply be the best of a fairly mediocre but QUITE EVENLY matched crop??

==PA [/B][/QUOTE]

We shall see come the BREEDER'S CUP, not the world sries or whatever they are hyping it as now. PG has to beat older horses to prove himself. Unfortunately, most of the older horse all usually spent by November, and this year most have already fallen. But beware, Albert loves Belmont and he is on top of his game. His recent loss came at a good time. Now he only needs one prep and he should "top" out in the BC, at his home track.

But for now, PG is the benchmark for 3yos.
As for Volvano or Volponi, or whoever, Cigar's record is safe.
Tom

[PaceAdvantage]

Tuffmug,

Seems to me that the horses who have been considered by most (in hindsight) to be some of the greatest of all time, always had the numbers to back up the claims.....so far, Point Given's numbers are nothing special.

And whenever there is a horse who kicks butt, but doesn't have the historical numbers to back up his performances, there are always those that say he only runs as fast as he needs to win. I never put much stock into that theory, but it's pretty much an unprovable theory either way, so debating it is probably pointless.


==PA

[ceejay]

ESPN reported that PG got a 117 Beyer. If you buy that it's the 2nd fastest Travers.

I think that PG's record is clear: He's vunerable off a layoff of ~4 weeks or more.

[PaceAdvantage]

117 is certainly more like it.... If he can run 120 or over by the end of the season, and comes back as a 4yo, watch out!!

I think a 120 Beyer would be considered by most as the threshold between merely best of the year and best of quite some time....


==PA

[HorseLady]

LTNS, still here...

I'm sure you listened to 30 MTP tonite, they mentioned something very interesting.. Look at the 3yo field we have here right now. Like John and Kelly were saying (I'm sure Dan too), PG has not had a horse of his calibur to battle yet on the field. PG is the best 3yo in training right now. What would it be like when/if he gets to go against Galileo? Sounds like an US vs Europe matchup in the making!

Second to PG is likely E Dubai. Like John, I had him to win the Travers. I was convinced that this was the race PG could be beat at. I was shocked that the exacta paid $12 and change.

I'm heading up to the Spa on Tuesday morning, will be staying Tuesday and Wednesday night (leaving the hubby home). If anyone happens to be up there, please e-mail me, would love to meet some fellow horse lovers.

[andicap]

To those who say he hasn't beaten anyone:


That's what they said about Seattle Slew. Looks to me like he's the best 3 yr old in years. I remember when A.P. Indy was running poor speed figures for his class and came to the Belmont. He blew everyone away.
Point Given showed me his grit and class in the Haskell when he ran when Baffert admittedly said he was subpar and still one. The great ones win when they are less than 100%.
Wasn't it only a few months ago when people said this was an excellent group of 3 yr olds? Besides that's what they say every year.

Looks like the real deal to me.

[HorseLady]

It seems like PG had matured it ways that the others have not. Mind you, this is a monster horse. He is hands taller that most others. Just looking at the stretch run with PG and E Dubai, they looked like a 3yo and a weanling together.

Hopefully the others improve soon. Watching PG win all the time does get a bit boring after awhile :)

[Tom]

andicap-I was calling this a lousy crop right after the Derby. I sill don't think it is very good, but I think PG is
the real deal. Wehn you put his whole year into context, he was cooked in a bad Derby-only he and Congaree of all 19 horses ran in the the front half of the field in at the half and at the finish. Since then, he is dynamite.
And Horselady-if that head on shot of the stretch run wasn't a picute worth framing and hanging in the den, then I don't know what is. What a monster!
I want to see PG chase Albert down Belmont's stretch.
Tom

[tanda]

Plus, I give Baffert and the other connections credit for running this horse. A lot of others would have sat on the sidelines until the Breeders' Cup with a prep race or two in the fall. PLus, I have yet to hear talk that he will not return next year.

I always thought Fusaichi Pegasus was overrated, but we will never really know how good he is/was because Neil and the connections were not sporting enough to run him.

Also, Lukas deserves credit for running his horses. Neither he nor Baffert are afraid to lose. You rarely see them scratching because of post position or weight. Other trainers are looking for excuses not to run (like Bruce Headly, Jim Chapman, Neil Drysdale).