Say Goodbye to your Healthcare at Work

[JustRalph]

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/05/06/shocker-major-corporations-may-dump-health-insurance-pay-penalties-instead/

Now we know why Waxman Canceled the hearings

From the link:

"The great mystery surrounding the historic health care bill is how the corporations that provide coverage for most Americans — coverage they know and prize — will react to the new law’s radically different regime of subsidies, penalties, and taxes. Now, we’re getting a remarkable inside look at the options AT&T, Deere, and other big companies are weighing to deal with the new legislation.

Internal documents recently reviewed by Fortune, originally requested by Congress, show what the bill’s critics predicted, and what its champions dreaded: many large companies are examining a course that was heretofore unthinkable, dumping the health care coverage they provide to their workers in exchange for paying penalty fees to the government. "

Waxman didn’t simply request documents related to the write down issue. He wanted every document the companies created that discussed what the bill would do to their most uncontrollable expense: healthcare costs.

The request yielded 1,100 pages of documents from four major employers: AT&T, Verizon, Caterpillar and Deere (DE, Fortune 500). No sooner did the Democrats on the Energy Committee read them than they abruptly cancelled the hearings. On April 14, the Committee’s majority staff issued a memo stating that the write downs were “proper and in accordance with SEC rules.” The committee also stated that the memos took a generally sunny view of the new legislation. The documents, said the Democrats’ memo, show that “the overall impact of health reform on large employers could be beneficial.”

Nowhere in the five-page report did the majority staff mention that not one, but all four companies, were weighing the costs and benefits of dropping their coverage."

see the link for much more

[johnhannibalsmith]

I'm shocked. Having health care through an employer stifles the paycheck total; now, not having it through an emplyer will also stifle the check. Oh yeah, and that pay won't spend as well as the price to the consumer at the other end also reflects the offset. Surely this will truly help all of the bottom earners and punish the wealthy.

[boxcar]

And for those of us who don't live in an alternate reality or bury our heads in the sand predicted straight out, that the intent behind the "public option", "ObamaCare", or whatever other label one might want to put on this piece of garbage bill was to eventually get to the one-payer system through the "back door" by making it very financially attractive for corporations to drop their health care benefits.

By the way, JR, El Rushbo was way ahead of the curve on this one weeks ago, when Waxman suddenly canceled. Rush knew that the last thing the Dems would want just before elections is for these law-abiding corporations to blow the whistle on this administration and the Party of Dem(on)s! I bet you that the corporations would have had a field day at those hearings. They wold have crushed a weasel like Waxman with their facts and figures!

Boxcar

[chickenhead]

Employer sponsored health insurance going the way of the dodo bird is progress, though it's guaranteed to be a freak-out of a transition.

[JustRalph]

Employer sponsored health insurance going the way of the dodo bird is progress, though it's guaranteed to be a freak-out of a transition.


yes, but Barry O promises we wouldn't lose our employee sponsored policies ? Remember that? Also, if we are forced off of our employee plans.......we have only one option left.....and that is the Government. That means a defacto Single Payer plan............ :bang: :bang: :bang:

which was their goal all along.............

[chickenhead]

I don't listen to much of what Barry promises about anything....

Also, if we are forced off of our employee plans.......we have only one option left.....and that is the Government.

you have the same option you had before, individual private plans. Which are structurally much better. healthier. Getting insurance off the corps brings down their cost structure. It needs to get cheaper to do business here. Eliminate the penalty altogether -- Super Charge the incentives for them to drop the insurance and they'd get a lot more kudos from me.

I don't doubt that Barry wants a single payer plan, but I don't really give a shit what he wants. However, this is about the only good part of what just went down. Now, what you need to be fighting for, is getting the individual insurance right, and we'll be good to go.

People who are insured are overinsured. Put the costs on the people, let them see the bill, they'll self correct. With much freaking out along the way. And people that aren't insured, yeah they need to get minimally insured. My fear all throughout this gig was that the minimum insurance would be too good. I haven't looked, but knowing the insurance corps were fully on board, I'm sure I'm right.

[DJofSD]

So, when my employer drops my company health insurance, what happens to the life insurance policy that accompanies the health insurance?

[Tom]

So, when my employer drops my company health insurance, what happens to the life insurance policy that accompanies the health insurance?

You have to stop living.

[Snag]

So, when my employer drops my company health insurance, what happens to the life insurance policy that accompanies the health insurance?

You may want to double check to see if you still have the life insurance coverage. Some companies have eliminated that small perk to cut costs.

[lamboguy]

you should see what this so called right wing conservetive romney did to us in mass. he forced you into getting health insuranse, so i got it it. i got mail yesterday from the department of revenue here saying that i owe them another $1200 because i don't have prescription drug care. i called them up and told them i don't like to take the bad drugs that they make you stick down your throat or get injected like a junkey. they told me its to bad, romney made so i get fleeced again with another added insult for $1200 more to those greedy son of a bitches.

my accountant told me that in massachusetts the insurance company's have to accept you even with a pre-existing condition. the only time you aren't covered is when you have a car accident or a heart attack. so he advised me to drop my insurance and pay the fine. he said i will save about $5000 a year that way.

[bob77713]

[/b]

You may want to double check to see if you still have the life insurance coverage. Some companies have eliminated that small perk to cut costs.

The company I work for lowered our Long Term Disability coverage from 65% to 50%. The funny part was, I only know one other co-worker who noticed it.

[boxcar]

I don't listen to much of what Barry promises about anything....



you have the same option you had before, individual private plans. Which are structurally much better. healthier. Getting insurance off the corps brings down their cost structure. It needs to get cheaper to do business here. Eliminate the penalty altogether -- Super Charge the incentives for them to drop the insurance and they'd get a lot more kudos from me.

:lol: :lol: :lol: This is funny. You really expect the state to "eliminate the penalty altogether"? Chick, who is going to foot the bill for all those who you also say need to be "minimally insured" but don't have two nickles to rub together? :bang: :bang: This "HC bill" is not about health care. It's all about wealth redistribution. There are some libs, who actually had an honest moment, who have even admitted this!

But we're not to worry, right? Big Gov has everything under its control. You think most Americans, who have their own insurance right now are over-insured? Fear not: With the single payer system, and government career bureaucrats calling the shots on our health care, the state will be redefining "rationing" for us all. As the old saying goes: Be careful what you wish for.

Boxcar

[hazzardm]

:But we're not to worry, right? Big Gov has everything under its control. You think most Americans, who have their own insurance right now are over-insured? Fear not: With the single payer system, and government career bureaucrats calling the shots on our health care, the state will be redefining "rationing" for us all. As the old saying goes: Be careful what you wish for.

Boxcar

I've never seen anything prohibiting private health insurance policies. Law of supply and demand will ensure those that want to pay for better coverage can get better coverage.

[boxcar]

I've never seen anything prohibiting private health insurance policies. Law of supply and demand will ensure those that want to pay for better coverage can get better coverage.

Look, Hazz, even some liberal pols (such as Charlie Rangel have admitted that the ultimate goal of this "HC bill" is to get to a single payer system. It's going to happen. Count on it. Bank on it. Believe it. It will eventually happen. Try to extricate yourself from your self-induced mental myopia and look at the big picture for once.

So many parts of this bill were deliberately written in vague, imprecise language so that the administrating bureaucrats would have a good deal of license in formulating their own rules.

If this was such a good thing, why didn't Waxman go through with the hearings? Why wouldn't he want this information to be made public BEFORE the mid-terms? Why would the Dems fear this info getting out?

Boxcar

[Tom]

If anyone listened to Obama, that is his ultimate goal as well.
Anyone who bought his lie about keeping your policy is a fool.
The whole plan is to destroy the current system.
Read Saul Alynski...you put up an infratructure ( public option) and then tear down the system from within and step in with your seemingly innocuous one.
Hilter used this same plan in the 30's......and it worked.

[chickenhead]

people are going to be getting the same problem lamboguy is complaining about. It aint a crappy public option, its OVER insurance.

Its that the options are TOO GOOD. $5-25 copays as a DEFAULT are the problem with healthcare. You cant buy a sandwich for $5, but somehow the idea is that insurance makes a hospital have the same marginal costs of a sandwich shop. And we wonder why that insurance costs so much. Or we don't, because we get it "for free" from our company.

Individuals will never en masse pay for the cost of being insured down to $5 copays when they get the actual full bill for what that costs. So they'll want to trade down. Which is GREAT. That's the GOAL. What they need to find there are a range of higher deductible insurance plans.

[lamboguy]

If anyone listened to Obama, that is his ultimate goal as well.
Anyone who bought his lie about keeping your policy is a fool.
The whole plan is to destroy the current system.
Read Saul Alynski...you put up an infratructure ( public option) and then tear down the system from within and step in with your seemingly innocuous one.
Hilter used this same plan in the 30's......and it worked.
obama is like a meat grinder running at tripple speed

[hazzardm]

people are going to be getting the same problem lamboguy is complaining about. It aint a crappy public option, its OVER insurance.

Its that the options are TOO GOOD. $5-25 copays as a DEFAULT are the problem with healthcare. You cant buy a sandwich for $5, but somehow the idea is that insurance makes a hospital have the same marginal costs of a sandwich shop. And we wonder why that insurance costs so much. Or we don't, because we get it "for free" from our company.

Individuals will never en masse pay for the cost of being insured down to $5 copays when they get the actual full bill for what that costs. So they'll want to trade down. Which is GREAT. That's the GOAL. What they need to find there are a range of higher deductible insurance plans.

Over a 35 year work career, I am guessing I've paid well over 120k in premiums, and all I've got is some antibitoics about 2-3 years. :mad:

[bigmack]

You cant buy a sandwich for $5,
Ladies & gentlemen of the jury I ask; Is a sub a sandwich?

[46zilzal]

Over a 35 year work career, I am guessing I've paid well over 120k in premiums, and all I've got is some antibitoics about 2-3 years. :mad:
Don't put in a claim or they will suggest that the fever you got from you small pox vaccination when you were 4 is a pre-existing condition!!

[johnhannibalsmith]

Over a 35 year work career, I am guessing I've paid well over 120k in premiums, and all I've got is some antibitoics about 2-3 years. :mad:

I'm extremely proud of you for understanding the meaning of the word insurance and despite the angry looking emoticon, not driving the cost of care further through the roof by "getting your money's worth" like the rest of the insured.

[chickenhead]

I've got a Vietnamese buddy, he's around 50. He went to the doctor late last year and found that his cholesterol was bad, quite a ways above healthy.

I ask him how this is even possible, he's Asian, thin as a rail, all he eats are fish and rice and the odd neighborhood cat -- he claims nobody told him potato chips and ice cream are bad, he's been eating a bag of potato chips every night before he goes and plays tennis. Yeah right I say, the old no speak engrish defense. You knew. But anyway.

So the doctor wants to write him a prescription for some cholesterol pill. Now this guy is the cheapest guy you've ever seen. He's a millionaire but you'd never know it. Just one example, he found a good deal one time on some boat shoes, like $20 at some swap meet or somewhere, the kind with the leather laces that go around them, so he bought two pairs. (good deal, buy two, he thinks ahead. Realistically he probably bought 10, and sold 8 to his other Vietnamese friends for $5 markup).

Started wearing one, stashed the other in his garage. So two years go by, the first pair are beyond falling apart so he goes and digs out the other pair. Some rat in his garage has eaten all the leather laces and done a fair bit of gnawing on the rest. He wears them to work anyway, and we give him shit about his rat shoes every time.

Anyway, so he's got great insurance, prescriptions are maybe $10. Now it never even occurs to my friend to get this prescription, he thinks the doctor is crazy. Why in the world would I pay you for a pill to cover up a problem with my diet? It's a crazy, far fetched kind of idea to him.

He goes hard the other way, cleans up his diet, and in 4 months goes back, new test, cholesterol is down in the low end of the range.

The solution to health care costs is more people like my buddy, and lamboguy. There should be some very real out of pocket costs and even some stigma around taking pills for things that are side effects of easily correctable things. It's insane how many people choose to over use our "medical system".

[johnhannibalsmith]

I've got a Vietnamese buddy, he's around 50...

... It's insane how many people choose to over use our "medical system".

Love this post.

[46zilzal]

Cholesterol reduction by diet and exercise does work, but not for everyone as genetics has a strong bearing on the levels

[PhillyFan]

Cholesterol reduction by diet and exercise does work, but not for everyone as genetics has a strong bearing on the levels

psychology probably plays a role too. some people are just too lazy to change to a healthy diet and take up exercise. it is easier to swallow a pill.