30 April 1975: Saigon

[gm10]

Just out of interest, do American media pay attention to the end of the Vietnam war (35 years ago today)?

[46zilzal]

I know many relatives of the over 55,000 dead, STILL TODAY, consider it a waste of time money and their relatives short life.

[boxcar]

I know many relatives of the over 55,000 dead, STILL TODAY, consider it a waste of time money and their relatives short life.

Funny how you libs consider some forms of violence a big waste of time and money, but then turn a blind eye toward other forms. Utterly hypocritical.

Boxcar

[prospector]

i still can't believe the people America betrayed by leaving..i had many close friends in ARVN army and mountain people..i've often wondered how they made out...Vietnam, the first war lost by congress..

[46zilzal]

i still can't believe the people America betrayed by leaving..i had many close friends in ARVN army and mountain people..i've often wondered how they made out...Vietnam, the first war lost by congress..
BETRAYED? that was a corporate welfare war having idiots intervening in a long standing civil war...

Funny how people alter history


this bull shit continues uncontrolled today.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13953.htm

quote
The American military is not abroad defending freedom and sowing the seeds of democracy, as they seem to believe. One need only examine the history of this nation to recognize the familiar patterns of conquest and oppression. The occupation of Iraq is the continuation of the policies that created the institution of slavery, following the genocide of the Indians. The military, far from being a defender of peace and freedom, has evolved into an extension of the corporate welfare state.

[Robert Goren]

i still can't believe the people America betrayed by leaving..i had many close friends in ARVN army and mountain people..i've often wondered how they made out...Vietnam, the first war lost by congress.. I have never know any Vietnam veteran who mentioned the ARVN without using string of cuss words. Several of them would want fight you, prospector, if they saw your post.

[Dave Schwartz]

Goren,

Well, you can count me as one that agrees with Prospector, at least as far as "mountain people." I had very little experience with ARVN.


Dave

[GameTheory]

Bruce Herschensohn has a new book on that:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0825306329/

[Robert Goren]

I think most people look on the Vietnam War as something that have never been fought. A lot people served over there and serve honorably. Their leaders let them down. They should never have sent there in the first place. Most people just want to move on. The one thing I can't stand is those people who bad mouth people who fought there. JMO

[BlueShoe]

On that day 35 years ago, watching the images and listening to the reports of the fall of Saigon, I got very, very drunk, trying to blot out the feelings of rage, frustration, and sorrow. Like so many other men that were in uniform at some time during the Vietnam conflict, those feelings still exist to this day. The armed forces of the nation did not lose a war; the politicians and the government would not allow us to conduct one. Very close to where I reside is the largest Vietnamese-American community in the USA, and I assure you, they are very much aware of what today is.

[46zilzal]

On that day 35 years ago, watching the images and listening to the reports of the fall of Saigon, I got very, very drunk, trying to blot out the feelings of rage, frustration, and sorrow. Like so many other men that were in uniform at some time during the Vietnam conflict, those feelings still exist to this day. The armed forces of the nation did not lose a war; the politicians and the government would not allow us to conduct one. Very close to where I reside is the largest Vietnamese-American community in the USA, and I assure you, they are very much aware of what today is.
And just what was the objective of murdering hundreds of thousands of people who's ONLY problem was that they were having a civil war?

THEY NEVER POSED A THREAT TO A SINGLE PERSON IN NORTH AMERICA, never.

Leave people to determine their own lives. My parents neighbor in Westminster (the little Saigon you speak of) was a colonel in the NORTH Vietnam army and we discussed it with civility on many occasions and our collective view was that it should have NEVER been fought in the first place other than to let companies like Bell Helicopter fleece the taxpayers.

I am reminded as to what the character of Hawkeye Pierce used to say all the time about the Koreans"" How can they hate us? all we want to bring them is white bread and flatulence?"

[skate]

The one thing I can't stand is those people who bad mouth people who fought there. JMO


good point

[bigmack]

And just what was the objective of murdering hundreds of thousands of people who's ONLY problem was that they were having a civil war?

THEY NEVER POSED A THREAT TO A SINGLE PERSON IN NORTH AMERICA, never.

NEVER been fought in the first place other than to let companies like Bell Helicopter fleece the taxpayers.

I am reminded as to what the character of Hawkeye Pierce used to say all the time about the Koreans"" How can they hate us? all we want to bring them is white bread and flatulence?"
You should write that for Wiki. According to you the whole entry for the war would be as long as what you just typed. Then again, you're a simpleton.

Here's what is currently in place on Wiki:

When John F. Kennedy won the 1960 U.S. presidential election, one major issue Kennedy raised was whether the Soviet space and missile programs had surpassed those of the U.S. As Kennedy took over, despite warnings from Eisenhower about Laos and Vietnam, Europe and Latin America "loomed larger than Asia on his sights." In his inaugural address, Kennedy made the ambitious pledge to "pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and success of liberty."
In June 1961, John F. Kennedy bitterly disagreed with Soviet premier Nikita Khrushchev when they met in Vienna over key U.S.-Soviet issues. The Legacy of the Korean War created the idea of a limited war.
Although Kennedy stressed long-range missile parity with the Soviets, he was also interested in using special forces for counterinsurgency warfare in Third World countries threatened by communist insurgencies. Although they were originally intended for use behind front lines after a conventional invasion of Europe, Kennedy believed that the guerrilla tactics employed by special forces such as the Green Berets would be effective in a "brush fire" war in Vietnam.

The Kennedy administration remained essentially committed to the Cold War foreign policy inherited from the Truman and Eisenhower administrations. In 1961, the USA had 50,000 troops based in Korea, and Kennedy faced a three-part crisis—the failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion, the construction of the Berlin Wall, and a negotiated settlement between the pro-Western government of Laos and the Pathet Lao communist movement[89] These made Kennedy believe that another failure on the part of the United States to gain control and stop communist expansion would fatally damage U.S. credibility with its allies and his own reputation. Kennedy determined to "draw a line in the sand" and prevent a communist victory in Vietnam, saying, "Now we have a problem making our power credible and Vietnam looks like the place," to James Reston of The New York Times immediately after meeting Khrushchev in Vienna.
In May 1961, Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson visited Saigon and enthusiastically declared Diem the "Winston Churchill of Asia." Asked why he had made the comment, Johnson replied, "Diem's the only boy we got out there." Johnson assured Diem of more aid in molding a fighting force that could resist the communists.
Kennedy's policy toward South Vietnam rested on the assumption that Diem and his forces must ultimately defeat the guerrillas on their own. He was against the deployment of American combat troops and observed that "to introduce U.S. forces in large numbers there today, while it might have an initially favorable military impact, would almost certainly lead to adverse political and, in the long run, adverse military consequences."

South Vietnam, Military Regions, 1967
The quality of the South Vietnamese military, however, remained poor. Bad leadership, corruption, and political promotions all played a part in emasculating the Army of the Republic of Vietnam (ARVN). The frequency of guerrilla attacks rose as the insurgency gathered steam. While Hanoi's support for the NLF played a role, South Vietnamese governmental incompetence was at the core of the crisis.

Kennedy advisers Maxwell Taylor and Walt Rostow recommended that U.S. troops be sent to South Vietnam disguised as flood relief workers. Kennedy rejected the idea but increased military assistance yet again. In April 1962, John Kenneth Galbraith warned Kennedy of the "danger we shall replace the French as a colonial force in the area and bleed as the French did." By 1963, there were 16,000 American military personnel in South Vietnam, up from Eisenhower's 900 advisors

[46zilzal]

At my twenty year high school reunion, I discovered we lost 7 for nothing. One fellow died from meningitis while in boot camp in LA along with 12 others.

This war was a lie from start to finish (kinda of like the ones that are going right now for that matter) with no goals ever established: I talked to many returning and they all said the same thing: WHAT the hell are we doing here?

One of my brothers in law was stationed with the Air Force on Guam and he regularly served planes from the bombing runs and heard that the pilots thought the whole thing was a stupid waste of time effort and money.

The Gulf of Tonkin was an overt lie, the bombing of neighboring countries was crap and unauthorized as well, the biggest complaints I heard were fellows telling me that on Tuesday one thing was the objective and by Thursday it was different which prompted the repeated question "WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING HERE?

Almost 60,000 dead, billions squandered FOR NOTHING, and it appears that NOTHING was learned from this as well.

[bigmack]

"WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING HERE?
What are you dense? You've already answered the question.

So we could let companies like Bell Helicopter fleece the taxpayers & bring white bread & gas to a foreign land.

See how easy that is?

[BlueShoe]

And just what was the objective of murdering hundreds of thousands of people who's ONLY problem was that they were having a civil war?Civil war? It was a war of conquest supported by the USSR and the ChiComs. Murder? How many were murdered by the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese regulars? No one will ever know. Btw, your tale of the NVA colonel in Westminster is BS. Once his background and identity became known, he would have been murdered in short time by one of very many with old scores to settle.

[prospector]

I have never know any Vietnam veteran who mentioned the ARVN without using string of cuss words. Several of them would want fight you, prospector, if they saw your post.
even at my age, they'd lose...
the ARVN's i worked with were scouts and recon..mean bastards to the man..they fought war the way it should have been fought..

[46zilzal]

Civil war? It was a war of conquest supported by the USSR and the ChiComs. Murder? How many were murdered by the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese regulars? No one will ever know. Btw, your tale of the NVA colonel in Westminster is BS. Once his background and identity became known, he would have been murdered in short time by one of very many with old scores to settle.
BS really? Fellow was educated in Paris but returned to Vietnam with his parents and joined their army. Several of his children immigrated in advance of his returning from Vietnam and he confirmed that it was a civil war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_Civil_War

[prospector]

Btw, your tale of the NVA colonel in Westminster is BS. Once his background and identity became known, he would have been murdered in short time by one of very many with old scores to settle.
most of what 46 posts is jaded bullshit...i can't even respond to his last posts without getting thrown off this site...when i got out of the marines and went to college, people like him were picked up and placed in dumpsters with the rest of the trash..

[46zilzal]

Btw, your tale of the NVA colonel in Westminster is BS. Once his background and identity became known, he would have been murdered in short time by one of very many with old scores to settle.
by more thugs looking to reverse the way Their government took advantage of their willingness to fight a travesty.....This fellow was simply defending his home

[46zilzal]

I have met a few who returned studied the situation and were objective about just what happened and the overwhelming conclusion: " We were pawns on a chess board, Used and thrown away."

[BlueShoe]

Fellow was educated in Paris but returned to Vietnam
Like Ho Chi Minh? He spent several years there, joined the Communist Party there before returning home, and we all know what a nice fella he turned out to be, dont we? Bet you still have fond memories of frail, kindly old "Uncle Ho", dont you, since tyrants and subversives seem to have a special place in your thoughts.

[skate]

I am reminded as to what the character of Hawkeye Pierce used to say all the time about the Koreans"" How can they hate us? all we want to bring them is white bread and flatulence?"


try this out, for your sins; http://www.usspueblo.org/.


Watershed event, i think , after they released our Men, they still have the ship. that was , like, 40 myears ago.:(

[Tom]

Almost 60,000 dead, billions squandered FOR NOTHING, and it appears that NOTHING was learned from this as well.



Obama care results after a year?

Seriously, no matter what your opinion on the war, our pulling out with the commies moving in was a betrayal to the people there who were counting on us.
It was not their fault - they trusted us and we left. Like we did in Cuba, like we did in Iraq with Bush 41. I do not why anyone in the world would really ever trust us. We are ruled by politics, not principles.

[Robert Goren]

The whole can be some up by something I heard back in the 60s " How come their Vietnamese fight better than our Vietnamese?" I have never gotten a good answer.