TIOGA DOWNS... Pen or the Micro-Chip

[Ray2000]

Tioga Downs starts their 2010 season May 1st with new Track Take Out REDUCTIONS :jump:
15% Win/Place/Show; 17% Exacta/Double and 21% for all other exotics

And to show our support and tell them... :ThmbUp: "WE LIKE IT" :ThmbUp: there's a fun little contest between computer picks and human 'cappers sponsored by HANA, that will be followed at Tioga's Web site. The picks by the 2 computer programs vs 2 human "paper and pen" cappers will posted in this thread for all the races this year along with daily ROI report updates.

To get as many people involved as possible we invite anyone (You will need PA membership to post) who would like to put up their own picks to play along. (Free to Enter No Fees) You can post your picks right here in this thread, and I will keep score. If we get enough people to play along (at least 6 more), and make picks for at least 80% of the races, then there will be a side-bar prize of a set of 20+ used Harness handicapping books going to the top finishing human 'capper. (More on this later).

To make things easier on an old man, please put your pick numbers for win, place and show, in that order, for each race on a separate line, and separate the picks with a dash (hyphen). Picks must be put up at least 1 hour before 1st race post time. If you pass a race, put in "pass" ....Some Examples...

r1 8-5-3
r2 pass
race 3 6-1-7 my best play of the day (if you want to add a short comment)
race#4..... 2-3-4
race 5------1-2-6
r6.......3-5-pass.......(if you have no pick 3)
and so forth

You will have one line for each race on the card, please show the date if picks are not for the date of posting.

Scoring will be based on a hypothetical $2 bet on First Choice to Win and the ROI on Win Wagers will the basis for determining the Contest Winner.
Scoring will also show the Year-to-Date ROI for 2$ Exacta Wagers Pick 1 on top of Pick 2 and Pick 3.

Late Scratches will be counted as a race played (with refund), no subs

The Computer Selectors are

SulkyPicker ...a program that I've been using for my picks here at PA and
Chatsworth Consortium ...a TrackMaster Selection Program.

The Pen and Paper 'cappers are

Mel and
Bobby Z


More information will be available at HANA's site soon.

http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/

and at Tioga Race Track Web site

http://www.tiogadowns.com/


USTA Tioga Track Fact Sheet

http://racing.ustrotting.com/trackside/trackfacts/pdf/2010/tgdn.pdf


Good Luck to All and let's show them...... "WE LIKE IT" ......with our hard earned $$$$$!

[LottaKash]

Ray, a way cool idea....I like it....Especially your little "side-bar" contest, NICE !!!...

Question tho, I would like to submit a pick or two or three, but do you have to do all the races ?....Hey Ray, you know me, I just can't pick-em all...

Good Luck Ray and Mel.....I'll be rootin for ya !!! :jump: :jump: :jump:

best,

[Ray2000]

Thanks Johnny

Pretty much need to do at least 8 or 9 races a day (80% allows 2 passes) to stay eligible for the box of Goodies.
Your running ROIs will still be available.

Hey, make picks in 4 or 5 and let your granddaughter do the rest. or are you afraid she'll beat you.:D

[DeanT]

Release is out here with some further information:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=883592#post883592

It's on the blog too. Thanks to Mike at Pace for donating cold hard cash for the retired standardbreds!

Edit - I guess it is easier to reproduce it here.



What's Mightier, the Pen or the Micro-Chip? Contest and Handicapping Tools Announced for Tioga Meet

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


(April, 28, 2010 - Charlottesville, VA) - In March, Tioga Downs, a harness track in Nichols, New York, announced they were offering decreased takeout on all bets for their meet, which opens May 1st. To show support for the track, who has been listening to their customers, HANA would like to announce the "Pen and Micro-Chip Challenge".

Each raceday, picks for Tioga will be given out from four handicappers. Two are computer programs, or data crunchers, and two will be from talented 'pen and paper' handicappers. At the end of the series we will tabulate the results, and declare a winner. A donation, supplied by HANA and Mike at Paceadvantage.com, will be made to the Standardbred Adoption Society of the winners choice.

The protagonists for the challenge:

In the micro-chip division we have Ray. Ray is a 67 year old retired chemist and self-taught computer programmer, living in Clarion, Pa. His interest in Standardbreds began in the 70's leading to part ownership of some trotters racing at The Meadows in the '80s. He laughingly claims to hold a perfect attendance award at the track from 1985-1991. Ray's home-grown handicapping program has shown positive ROI for several years, and he was recently featured in Trot Magazine's Horseplayer Edition.

Also representing the computers, Trackmaster (and the United States Trotting Association) has graciously donated the services of the "Chatsworth Consortium". These picks regularly sell for $10 per card, but they will be available free via the pick board, for the meet.

In the human category, we have assembled two handicappers with a wealth of knowledge. "Bobby Z", 55, started working at the Meadows Racetrack near Pittsburgh in the early 1970's. He was hooked, and has been since. Bobby also worked as an online race analyst for several tip sheets.

"There has been some off time the last two years and I actually thought I was done with it, but Tioga Downs' dropping of the takeout rates has brought me back online for the summer." he said.

Our final human handicapper is Mel. Mel is 64, from the Philadelphia area and has been playing for over 40 years.

"I started out with harness at the old Liberty Bell Park and Brandywine Raceway and was there for so many live racing days I cannot remember."

Mel mainly plays online, and is a dedicated and frequent poster to the picks section of Paceadvantage.com.

The challengers will be posting their picks in the harness racing section of Paceadvatage.com, and Tioga Downs is working on their handicapping website to post the picks there as well. If any thoroughbred players would like to lend a hand by betting into a harness track that is listening to them, now is your chance. These picks should give a good indoctrination into the harness game, from seasoned veterans, and excellent software.

HANA would like to thank both Tioga Downs for working with us, and the handicappers who are taking the time to support the track" said HANA President Jeff Platt. "We would like to give a special thank you to Trackmaster, for donating picks from a product that are normally part of their standard product line."

We will have continuing updates on our blog, and a side contest, with prizes, will be occurring on Paceadvantage.com in the harness section for any players who want to join in.

We wish Tioga Downs and everyone who supports them good luck and good racing.

To contact us at HANA, please email us at info @ hanaweb.org.

The Horseplayers Association of North America is a grassroots group of horseplayers, not affiliated with any organization, who are not pleased with the direction the game has taken. HANA believes that both tracks and horseman groups have become bogged down with industry infighting and have completely forgotten something: The importance of the customer. HANA hopes, through proactive change on several key issues (including but not limited to), open signal access, lower effective takeouts, wagering integrity, affordable data and customer appreciation, the industry’s handle losses can be reversed. HANA is currently made up of over 1500 horseplayers (both harness and thoroughbred) from almost all states and Canadian provinces. It currently represents over $70,000,000 of yearly racing handle.

Our web address is http://www.horseplayersassociation.org (http://www.horseplayersassociation.org/) and interested horseplayers can sign up there for free. We are horseplayers, just like you and we are trying to make a difference. We need, appreciate, and ask humbly for your support.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Thank you Tioga Downs and H.A.N.A.! I will begin in earnest studying the harness races with the intention of supporting the Tioga track!
I have mostly been advocating for reducing racehorse injuries and for ways to increase handle by more general public interest in racing. But I have very recently been comvinced that lowering the takeout wherever and whenever possible is a very necessary part of racing moving forward. The variation in takeout rates from track to track or state to state points this up.
Calling the part of any gaming wagering not returned to the bettors "takeout", racing has to do more than other forms of gaming to get the attention of new bettors. And with this economy as it stands today, every effort must be made to get new "fans" and keep current ones by lowering takeout, in the end increasing handle and helping everyong in racing financially.

[LottaKash]

Thanks Johnny

Pretty much need to do at least 8 or 9 races a day (80% allows 2 passes) to stay eligible for the box of Goodies.
Your running ROIs will still be available.

Hey, make picks in 4 or 5 and let your granddaughter do the rest. or are you afraid she'll beat you.:D

Thx Ray...

And I am afraid....She,(my grandaughter), scored a $72.00 goodie the other day, so her ROI put her in front for the time being...It will be a grind, but I'll get that little 7yo filly...Just you wait and see...:jump:

best,

[melman]

Ray for our little "side bar" contest I'll put up $100.00 cash money to the winner. For the "side bar" maybe we can lower the requirement to 6 races at least per card. This will get more people like LK I think. If you think that 8 races min are needed however I'm cool with that also. Now if someone has a Cheryl Ladd poster to make as a side bar prize I'll work doubly hard to win. :)

[botster]

Ray for our little "side bar" contest I'll put up $100.00 cash money to the winner. For the "side bar" maybe we can lower the requirement to 6 races at least per card. This will get more people like LK I think. If you think that 8 races min are needed however I'm cool with that also. Now if someone has a Cheryl Ladd poster to make as a side bar prize I'll work doubly hard to win. :)

Planning my first trip to Tioga with my dad in early June, so all of this news is very good news indeed.:jump:

[Ray2000]

Ray for our little "side bar" contest I'll put up $100.00 cash money to the winner. For the "side bar" maybe we can lower the requirement to 6 races at least per card. This will get more people like LK I think. If you think that 8 races min are needed however I'm cool with that also. Now if someone has a Cheryl Ladd poster to make as a side bar prize I'll work doubly hard to win. :)


mel

I'm fine with that, 6 race per day minimum picks.
The goal is to bring in as much interest and support as possible for

a Track that's listening to it's customers.

How about...
Winner of Win wagers ROI gets his choice, Harness Books or C-Note. (I'll list the books soon)
Winner of Exacta wagers ROI gets the other?

Contest hasn't started yet so rules can still be finalized.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Not that I needed it but I actually feel younger as in the days I first started learning about the races in the early 70's. I can feel the excitement building for the opening of Tioga Downs. Who would of thought of this happening in 2010 last year? Not I.

I look forward to a great meet for all involved. We are given a chance to change the industry and all we need do is to wager some of our money at Tioga. By doing so, I hope the rest of the industry will no longer take the fans for granted.

Let the games begin.
rtd (bobby z)

[DeanT]

Sheesh, Ray and the guys are getting some press.

Do you think they will remember us little people after this? :)

http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/notices/4-28-10/whats-mightier-pen-or-micro-chip.html

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=80145

[The Tioga Team]

...is key in the game and Dean has us off to a great one. Lots of notice and interest. We appreciate your interest and efforts here at PA and are making some changes to our website to help nudge things along. Hopefully (fingers crossed) we'll have a page dedicated to "Handicapping" soon that will contain pertinent info and follow the contest. Give us a week or so and then check it out here... http://www.tiogadowns.com/index.htm

The first card was drawn today and we had a really good response, full fields for the most part and interesting races. http://www.tiogadowns.com/SupportingFiles/documents/saturdayentry.htm

The existing site has a link to Trackmaster (thanks for your support in the contest, David) for programs. Saturday's will be available tomorrow and the Sunday program available on Friday.

Your comments and observations are welcome.

Nick

[RaceTrackDaddy]

If other stables from Ppk move up to Tioga like Bruce Ranger's, it will be an awesome meet. Will be interesting to see how many will be shipping later in the meet if this thing takes off. Stall space will be at a premium!
thanks again.
rtd (bobby z)

[willphorse]

Planning my first trip to Tioga with my dad in early June, so all of this news is very good news indeed.:jump:

Great Idea Ray! I'm def in if this gets going!

Botster, you will def have to look me up when you're in town! I will buy you a drink or buy you dinner... or something :ThmbUp:

That goes for anybody that makes the trip to Tioga this summer! :jump:

First card looks good with 10 races 8-9 horses per race (With the exception of 1 race with 7). We starting the selections this weekend?

[Ray2000]

Yes, willphorse.... Picks will start this Saturday.


For the PA play along 'cappers, and the side-bar prizes, we'll set the minimum number of races that must be played to 400 (out of expected 600+ races this year). That means you can miss a few days and/or pass on 3 or 4 races per day and still be eligible to win these books or mel's wallet.:)

Racetrack Betting The Professors' Guide to Strategies.....Asch and Quandt.....1968.....Hardbound
Stanley's Law.....Al Stanley and Sam Dragich.....1980.....
Harness Racing Winning Secrets.....Jack Rubin.....1985.....
Beating the Races with a Computer.....Steven Brecher.....1980.....
The Bettor's Guide to Harness Racing.....Ronald Roblin PhD.....1979.....Hardbound
Beat Your Betting Rivals Vol 1 and 2.....Wally Rottkamp.....1970.....
The Complete Book of Harness Racing.....Phillip Pines.....1978.....
Horse Sense .....Burton Fabrican.....1965.....
Success at the Harness Races.....Barry Meadow.....1977.....Hardbound
Picking Winners A Horseplayer's Guide.....Andrew Beyer.....1975.....Hardbound
The Science of Winning.....Burton Fabrican.....1979.....Horses and Stock Market Analysis
The Bettor's Guide to Harness Racing.....Steve Chapman.....1977.....Hardbound
The Horseplayers Guide to Picking winners.....Bernard Gould.....1977.....
Winning at the Harness Races.....Nick Cammaano.....1976.....
Ainslies Complete Guide to Harness Racing.....Tom Ainslies.....1970.....Hardbound
The Tote Board is Alive and Well.....Milt Gaines.....1981.....
Scientific Handicapping.....Cohen and Stephens.....1963.....
Beating the Harness Races.....Aaron Berstein.....1978.....
The Racing Maxims of Pittsburg Phil.....George Smith.....1908?.....
Ainslies Complete Guide to Thoroughbred Racing.....Tom Ainslies.....1968.....Hardbound
Winning at the Races.....Dr. William Quirin.....1979.....Hardbound

The last place finisher will receive.:)
Professional BlackJack.....Stanford Wong.....1981.....Hardbound


Good Luck to ALL

[melman]

Ray---I bet your favorite title among those listed is "Beating the Races with a Computer". :) Well Bobby Z and I are NOT having any of that. I have us listed as the strong morning line chalk to defeat you computer geeks. :D Of course what I know about computers is, you hit the button to startup, type in your account number and password, then "select track" and hit the submit button. :D

I think your layout of "rules" in quite fair. It's not like Tioga is racing six days a week and causing hardship for people to play along. Hope we can get at least five or six at the min. Pretty sure LottaKash and his "team" will play along. Wiilphorse lives right near Tioga so he will be in. I think tone3 is another who lives up that way. Opening card has quite a few trot races so I am already to consult with my Vegas "Trotting Maven" one Mr Toemaster.

[tamaharbor]

Do you need to always pick three horses per race?

[Ray2000]

For the purpose of the side-play along here at PA the answer is you don't have to pick three. I can understand why good cappers would sometimes want to play win and straight exacta or no win just the exactas or just win. The standings are based on ROI after all.


However for scoring only $2 bets will be used, no $4 straight exacta. AND you still have to meet the minimum number of win bets (400) and the minimum number of exacta bets (800), so be sure to place enough bets during the run to cover that requirement.


It would help if you want to place a Straight Exacta or Exacta wheel but no Win bet that you submit it using a forward slash as the separator... like..... 5/12 or just 5/2 ....... 5-1-2 will get you a win and ex wheel.

If this is confusing then you'll have to indicate in some way how it's to be made.


Hope you join in tamaharbor, ..........(man this contest could get tough)

[DeanT]

It's interesting to handicap this, as an observer. Ray's software is excellent. Mel and his combo of fig and pen and paper capping has given out some good winners since I have been watching. Bob Z has been at this for years.

Tough call on a morning line!

I think if we get ten or more cappers for the side contest, I will take the field. The lurkers are always sneaky good :)

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Saturday May 1st

Races:

9,1,3
5,3,8
6,5,3
1,3,6
5,4,2
8,3,4
3,5,9
1,7,4
4,6,3
9,1,8
Please note that there are 10 cent superfectas in races 4,7 and 10. Also interesting is that Tioga offers 50 cent trifecta wagers.

Bobby Z
(aka RaceTrackDaddy)

[LottaKash]

Saturday May 1st

Races:

9,1,3
5,3,8
6,5,3
1,3,6
5,4,2
8,3,4
3,5,9
1,7,4
4,6,3
9,1,8
Please note that there are 10 cent superfectas in races 4,7 and 10. Also interesting is that Tioga offers 50 cent trifecta wagers.

Bobby Z
(aka RaceTrackDaddy)

Hey RaceTrackDaddy, I didn't know you were "Bobby Z" of this forum....Good Luck in your contest....Too ! :jump: :jump: :jump:

best,

[markgoldie]

Sounds like you want only one horse on top in any exacta play. Am I right about that?

For example, an exacta play such as 57/23457 would not be acceptable. That would a $16 punch at a base of $2. Too much trouble to tabulate??

[Ray2000]

Mark

That's right, I could see doing something like that for any future contest but right now I have the spreadsheet set up for Pic1 2 and 3 and passes. If everything goes as planned the sheet will fetch the results, hilite the scratches and tabulate the standings but handling the scratches is still manual labor and I don't know what to expect on the number of players.

Hope to see your Picks, the new class system at Tioga should make for some very competitive races.

[Ray2000]

All right, here we go, bring on those organic wizards :)

Tioga Downs
Saturday May 1st ... Post time 6:50 .....(1:30 post on Sunday)

Race 1... 9-1-7 ...Major Work Of Art-8/5
Race 2... 8-5-3 ...Pembroke Chip-9/2
Race 3... 5-4-2 ...Trevor Win For Us-5/2
Race 4... 1-6-3 ...Southwind Maize-7/2
Race 5... 6-5-7 ...Virtual Escape-5/1
Race 6... 6-8-3 ...Mystic Splendor-9/2
Race 7... 3-5-2 ...Double D Fine-4/1
Race 8... 1-7-4 ...Harmony Oaks Rengo-7/2
Race 9... 1-3-2 ...Broadway Score-9/2
Race 10.. 1-9-5 ...Carolyn's Mikey-4/1

Had to smack the computer a few times to make it play Races 1, 3, 5 and 10, but I 'learned' it. :)

GL

[DeanT]

Chatsworth Consortium picks for Saturday, courtesy Trackmaster and the USTA.


Tioga Downs
Saturday May 1st ... Post time 6:50 ....

Race 1... 1-9-6
Race 2... 5-7-1
Race 3... 1-2-5
Race 4... 6-1-7
Race 5... 6-7-2
Race 6... 7-8-3
Race 7... 5-2-1
Race 8... 2-1-7
Race 9... 4-2-3
Race 10.. 5-9-2

[The Tioga Team]

Derick is featuring Tioga this Saturday and then every Sunday throughout the meet. Here's a link to his analysisisis...

http://media.live.harnesslink.com/files/f1272572066.pdf

If that fails (as it did for me) go here

http://harnesscharts.com/

then click on "Meadowlands & Yonkers Analysis on the left.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Thank you LottaKash...more would of recalled me if I kept on posting after the Little Brown Jug but the real life demands took me away from my utopia.

I am back!
bob

[LottaKash]

Thank you LottaKash...more would of recalled me if I kept on posting after the Little Brown Jug but the real life demands took me away from my utopia.

I am back!
bob

Glad you're back RTD/BZ....For good, or is it a "wham-bam thank you ma'am" ?...:cool:

best,

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Glad you're back RTD/BZ....For good, or is it a "wham-bam thank you ma'am" ?...:cool:

best,

As for back for good,,,,who knows what the future may bring but as for now, will be here through the Jug and might become a lurker again..lol

I never was one of those love and leave 'em types,,,,,always loved my 2nd's and 3rd helpin's..lol

RTD/bz

[LottaKash]

As for back for good,,,,who knows what the future may bring but as for now, will be here through the Jug and might become a lurker again..lol

I never was one of those love and leave 'em types,,,,,always loved my 2nd's and 3rd helpin's..lol

RTD/bz

Bobby, in a previous post, in this thread, you mentioned that you had recently came out of "Utopia", so i will ask you this, when you are not positng and just lurking, what or where is "Utopia" for you ?

best,

[melman]

The track will be fast, the weather clear and warm. Let's get this party started.

Tioga
Day 1

R1 9-7-1
R2 7-6-3
R3 3-4-6
R4 1-6-9
R5 2-5-4
R6 8-5-3
R7 3-9-5
R8 7-1-4
R9 4-1-2
R10 6-9-8

[The Tioga Team]

...just in case.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Just loaded my picks up on my site. No use waiting as I will not change them.

HANA-Tioga Pen v Chip contest
Day 2

Selections:

2,6,3
2,8,3
7,6,3
6,2,4
5,6,4
5,3,8
2,1,5
1,4,5
9,7,3
3,5,9
1,3,4
1,9,5
4,2,6
Bobby Z
(rtd)

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Bobby, in a previous post, in this thread, you mentioned that you had recently came out of "Utopia", so i will ask you this, when you are not positng and just lurking, what or where is "Utopia" for you ?

best,

LottaKash:
My Utopia is harness racing per se but it also include the greyhounds and flats. I had a trial date of Dec 1st and Dec 2nd that I had to prepare for. Financially and mentally tough process.

My neighbor built a two car garage that was 11 feet onto my property. That was back in May of 2002 I came down with Leukemia in January of the same year. We filed the lawsuit back in 2004 and it finally made it to court late last year.

The bad thing is that we had not a jury but a judge and HE STILL HAS NOT DECIDED the case and this is the beginning of May. Been tough but I am ready to leave the real world problems and concentrate on picking winners online again.

LETS GO PENS!
bobby z
(rtd)

[LottaKash]

Been tough but I am ready to leave the real world problems and concentrate on picking winners online again.
bobby z
(rtd)

Alright RTD, thx for the catch-up....Now back to business...You have your work cut out for you...Tioga is a tricky place....I'll bet that you will be up to the task, and maybe you will beat them all....

G.L. to you and the other good guys who will be doing the "Pickin"...

best,

[RaceTrackDaddy]

What we need are some opening morning line odds for the contestants and the people who come here to post by voting for their favorites as if it their vote was their money....could keep it going all week prior to Saturday and restart the clock after the last day's card...sounds like a lot of work though..and I do not like work...LOL

[mirror Image]

My support for Tioga will be small win bets.

R1 1
R2 7
R3 6
R4 1
R5 6
R6 8
R7 3
R8 1
R9 7
R10 1


Good Luck to all

[LottaKash]

I have a question for the Tioga Team.....

After getting deeper into the 1st Day's program for the "opener" on Sat 5/1, I just noticed that Tioga is now using the "A-B-C classifying system" for classifying and carding certain races that are not Claimers or NW's of 1/2/3 races.....

So the question is: Who gets to decided where the horse gets to be placed in those ABC conditions.?....

My first encounters in Harness-Racing, back in the mid-60's, were at the tracks of Yonkers, Roosevelt and Monticello raceways.....Back then they used the very same, I suppose, rating system for the horses that are now featured at Tioga....Back then it was up to the "Racing-Secretary" to make the determination of the classifications, and it was "He", that decided what horse would race in what class....Now back then, they didn't have the additional luxury of a NW's category, but they did have claimers, so you would either run your horse in a claimer, or else go where the Race Secretary told you to go which would be A, B or C, with a subset of 1, 2, or 3 in each letter of class....

So, without jumping the gun here, I must say tho, "I never did" like that way of classifying a horse....It gives the "RC" too much power in the "handicapping process", and for me, I don't care much for for that process...I am not trying to be arrogant about this, but I don't care for anyone meddling in a thing that is "working for me", and this classification system, is just that, meddling....It gives the "RC" too much power over where a horse should be placed...It is a judgement call on his part (the RC), it has been been my observation and experience, that when a "third-party" has entered into the picture of "classifying a horse", well that becomes very "subjective" to me......

Not to point any fingers or insinuate anything of a sort about any of this, but way back when, I was a Harness-Groom for a time, and all I can say about that is, I heard things, about this and that and the classifications and about certain trainers....One can use his imagination on that score.....but "teacher's pet" and "scratch my back", come to my mind...

I belive that the ABC way of classifying a horse might make it much simpler, and easier for the novice and inexperienced fan/bettor to better get a handle on what a horse may be perceived as being better/higher by using the ABC guidleines, but for me, it takes some play out of my "Trainer's-Angle" book of tricks, and to succeed in this game for the long haul, we must have some tricks to use to have any chance at all.......ABC classifying, takes away a bunch of those tricks, imo....

Hey I am an old guy, who has had his brains beat out of him over and over throughout my handicapping life.... And so as with the "old-dog and a new trick", I am the same I suppose, change is hard for this old guy, as with ABC racing, I have been there and done that, and I never liked it much....It took me too long to get here, and cost me a "Lottakash" to pay for my education, so I would rather fight than switch....

I will watch and see where all of this goes.....Because of the lower quality of the horses at Tioga, perhaps in the long run, this may be just what the Doctor ordered, I don't know....

Still, "kudos" to Tioga Downs for their brave and inspiring stance on lowering the "takeout", when mostly, other tracks, in and of themselves, are the victims of their own unwaivering mindset, and I believe that they are "lost in a space-time warp" of some sort, at least when it comes to fixing the current sluggish and ailing horse race betting system that now exists..... They seem to be clueless....

So, I am rooting for you Tioga...and despite my feelings on ABC racing, I will not hesitate to make my play, when I think I have a "Loophole" or two going for me at your nice raceway

best,

[tamaharbor]

Tamaharbor Saturday May 1 Seelctions

1. 1,6,7
2. 3,1,5
3. 4,5,2
4. 4,6,3
5. 2,5,7
6, 2,5,8
7. 5,4,2
8. 5,4,6
9. 1,4,5
10. 4,1,2

[markgoldie]

First, an unsolicited word on ABC racing: It stinks. The A-B-C class system was used in metro NY racing for years, but for reasons which became obvious way back in the day, it is a system that rewards failure and dishonest racing. For example, if you have a horse that is only moderately competitive in a given class, what possible incentive do you have by racing the animal on it's toes only to gain minor checks and remain in the same spot week after week? Answer: none. Much better to stiff the animal a couple of starts so you can drop down to a lower class where you may win. Additionally, since the horse is showing worse-than-necessary lines, why not bet a little when you hit the right class? This wagering angle helps mitigate against any lost purses you may have suffered during the "stiffing" period. And so, in short order, you have horses going "hot" and "cold" on a regular basis.

Furthermore, the system gives far too much power to the race secretary. For example, when a horse comes into the track from another venue, where does the race secretary put the horse? Were the race secretary an expert handicapper with back data on the results of shippers from different venues, we might get the proper initial classification. But in reality, the RS has other concerns. For ex., maybe he wants to encourage trainers to bring more animals to his track (don't they all in this environment??). So what does he do? He puts shippers in "soft" so as to encourage more shippers. Closely related is the "favor" mentality that arises. Ex., the RS needs a horse to fill an event. So he coaxes a trainer to enter a horse where the animal may not be competitive. In return, you can bet your bottom dollar that same trainer wants a favor in return for the favor he is granting. So the RS drops a couple of marginal animals for him in class as a repayment. You see the environment that is developing. The politics of this nonsense is immense. Then there is the dilemma of when and how the RS decides it's time to drop a horse. Consider this: when a class is over-subscribed with entries, it's almost a given that the RS will drop horses out of it to a less-subscribed class so he can maintain field balance and an equal opportunity to race. But if your horse is racing in an under-subscribed class, the animal will practically have to die on the racetrack to get dropped out. Furthermore, he will be subjected to an inordinate amount of class droppers from the class above him. Great situation to be in!! :bang:

Now that I have rained on the party so to speak, let me say that there are ways to handicap this mish-mosh. (1) Assume that open claimers are being raced honestly. (2) Assume that A-B-C races may not be. Therefore, keep close records on trainers who's horses suddenly "wake up" when dropped. Note the drivers who seem to be "live" in all situations, as well as those not opposed to taking a marginal horses back and never leaving the pylons.

Trackmaster users are cautioned to evaluate the validity of numbers from other tracks. In order of preference (strength), they are:

(1) Meadowlands
(2) Yonkers
(3) Meadows (especially strong in trotters)
(4) Pocono Downs
(5) Vernon (especially good when the horse is a closer)
(6) Monticello
(7) Freehold
(8) Saratoga
(9) Buffalo

Selections for opening card:

R1: 9 and 9/67
R2: 7
R3: 1 and 1/25
R4: 1
R5: 6 and 6/78
R6: 8
R7: 3 and 3/59
R8: 7
R9: 4
R10: 9

Note: I was writing this and did not have the benefit of reading Kash's pertinent remarks on the subject of ABC racing. But he seems to be on the money. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[LottaKash]

First, an unsolicited word on ABC racing: It stinks. .................................................. ..................Note: I was writing this and did not have the benefit of reading Kash's pertinent remarks on the subject of ABC racing. But he seems to be on the money. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Thanks MG, for elaborating even further on this abc-issue....You always seem to say it so much better than I....Thx...:cool:

best,

[melman]

I'm no fan of the ABC method either. However I would MUCH rather be betting into a trifecta takeout of 21% instead of the 29-35% take on Pennsylvania tracks. Yes there are many of us who can get rebates thru certain ADW's and lower that outlandish takeout. But what about the casual fan or someone new? Also if you live in the "wrong" state (such as NJ) you cannot sign up with cash back ADW's. You have to pay the full outlandish takeout if you choose to bet tri's.

I am sure Nick is a very busy man this weekend maybe later in the week he can address this and we can get his thinking on the ABC matter.

[LottaKash]

I'm no fan of the ABC method either. However I would MUCH rather be betting into a trifecta takeout of 21% instead of the 29-35% take on Pennsylvania tracks. Yes there are many of us who can get rebates thru certain ADW's and lower that outlandish takeout. But what about the casual fan or someone new? Also if you live in the "wrong" state (such as NJ) you cannot sign up with cash back ADW's. You have to pay the full outlandish takeout if you choose to bet tri's.

I am sure Nick is a very busy man this weekend maybe later in the week he can address this and we can get his thinking on the ABC matter.

Hey Mel, money, money, money, is that all you ever talk about ?....:D

best,

[melman]

Johnny===Take a look at my avatar. That should answer your question. Where I live today it's 88 and sunny. Bikini weather. :jump:

[LottaKash]

Johnny===Take a look at my avatar. That should answer your question. Where I live today it's 88 and sunny. Bikini weather. :jump:

Mel, I looked (again and again as I always do), that is "money".....:cool:

best.

[tone3]

My picks for Day 1

R1 9-6-1
R2 7-3-6
R3 4-6-1
R4 1-6-9
R5 8-6-4
R6 7-8-1
R7 5-3-1
R8 7-4-1
R9 4-3-2
R10 4-6-9

Good luck to all and Happy Profits ;)

[JFGHarness]

197
375
514
1679
682
3421
175
142
9451
good luck to all leaving for tioga!~

[Ray2000]

Glad to have you playing JFGHarness

need to know which race you're passing or is it R1-R9?

[beaucap]

Does tioga downs have second tier for post 9..10..etc. How many across do they run? I never handicapped that track. I am now$$$$
Would appreciate the help.
Bo:)

[traynor]

TgDn May1 R01 - PASS

TgDn May1 R02 - 7-8-4

TgDn May1 R03 - 4-6-5

TgDn May1 R04 - 6-1-3

TgDn May1 R05 - PASS

TgDn May1 R06 - 8-7-4

TgDn May1 R07 - 9-3-5

TgDn May1 R08 - PASS

TgDn May1 R09 - 2-5-7

TgDn May1 R10 - 1-9-2

I don't normally pass many races, but I am using a computer application that ignores qualifying races. The problem should disappear when the entries have a race over the track.

[Ray2000]

OK traynor glad to have you playing along


Bo... 9 behind the gate Here's the USTA fact sheet

http://racing.ustrotting.com/trackside/trackfacts/pdf/2010/tgdn.pdf


JFGHarness,

I think I cracked your code so .. based on superfectas in R4-R7-R10, you are passing race 6, at least that's what's you will have for May 1 unless corrected before 5:30 pm


Here are the robotic picks for Sunday, May 2, post time 1:30

(One more Mint Julep and I won't be up and around tomorrow 'till 2:00 :))

Rays bot picks

7 longshots?..... "Joshua what are you doing?" :confused:

Sunday, May 02, 2010 Post Time 1:30

Race 1... 6-1-7 ...Don'twanttobeblue-8/1
Race 2... 2-3-4 ...Jadestone-5/2
Race 3... 4-3-1 ...Armbro Beachbaby-8/1
Race 4... 1-3-2 ...Hey Its Only Money-12/1
Race 5... 5-4-8 ...Sheezacredit-7/2
Race 6... 3-5-4 ...Alexanderthegreatn-3/1
Race 7... 2-5-3 ...Eagle See-4/1
Race 8... 3-2-4 ...Earnest Kash-12/1
Race 9... 8-3-9 ...That's Justice-5/1
Race 10... 7-4-5 ...Counter Top-12/1
Race 11... 6-1-2 ...Basso Hanover-8/1
Race 12... 3-6-7 ...Iam Billy The Man-8/1
Race 13... 4-1-7 ...Star Stepper-3/1


Chatworth's Selections for Sunday day 2

r1 2-5-3
r2 2-3-6
r3 4-6-3
r4 4-2-7
r5 5-2-4
r6 3-5-6
r7 2-1-5
r8 4-5-7
r9 5-3-7
r10 5-2-3
r11 1-6-2
r12 4-3-6
r13 2-1-7

GLA

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Since the blog will not start live action at Tioga until next week I am free to move about. My buddy Randy and I are now heading down to Mountaineer to spread the word about Tioga's move in retention rates and the contest.

Have a great night to one and all!

rtd
bobby z

[beaucap]

Thx Ray

[DeanT]

Ray and Bob can not be stopped :)

Nice job Nick and Jason with the opening stuff. Looks like a nice night there!

I supported the pools with some advance bets, so I will check later to see how many "0's" I bring home :)

[DeanT]

Nice ex in the third Ray. Good job. I used 5-48 tris and did not use the three for third. Yep, that's about right :)

Whoops. Missed the INQ. Yikes.

[melman]

Picks for Tioga
Sunday
Day 2

R1 2-3-6
R2 4-3-9
R3 6-7-1
R4 4-2-6
R5 5-6-3
R6 3-5-4
R7 2-3-6
R8 6-2-1
R9 5-7-9
R10 2-9-5
R11 5-1-6
R12 6-4-1
R13 6-4-8

[RaceTrackDaddy]

What a day this turned out to be for me. First off, I switched ADW's in March and never checked the track listing for this month but I did see Vernon listed somewhere earlier so I (and we all know what we are) assumed that Tioga would be one. Guess what, they do not have Tioga Downs available at BetAmerica...

Ok, couple emails and I was assured that they will try to get them as soon as they can to which I replied should not be too hard since you all ready have the sister track at Vernon..

Then I found out that my friend wanted to go to Mountaineer. I agreed when I found out that the blog was not going to be active tonight. Upon arriving at Mountaineer, I was checking the track listings on the wall near the show paddock. Guess what? Your right, Mountaineer did not carry them also.

Now you have this 300 lb beard old fart (me) on high looking for the mutuel manager. Guess what? Nope, he is none other than a busboy that worked for me when I waited on tables at the meadows years ago. He told me that he will run it by the powers that be at the mountain and try to get it.

Did notice that all superfectas night also carried a 50 cent minimum. Still lost my butt when I intended to bet Tioga. The only thing I bet today at Tioga was the first race (via Twin Spires) prior to leaving for West by God Virgina. I bet the 1st race in case we have traffic problems seeing how it was Derby Day. It was the only ticket (live or online) that I cashed. My favorite puppy, Kelsos Rockaway had road trouble today to start all off at Wheeling in the 4th.

Yes, my secret is out. I like the puppies,flats and harness. No descrimination here...

Tomorrow begins a new day and I look forward to the challenge.

rtd
bobby z

[willphorse]

Any chance anybody saw the Total Attendance or Total Handle for last night?

[Pacingguy]

First of all, here is a link showing who is carrying Tioga Downs.

http://viewfromthegrandstand.blogspot.com/2010/04/i-want-my-tioga-downs-list-of-simulcast.html

With regards to the A-B-C system, I like it. If you check the TIoga Downs website under racing information, you will see a brief explanation regarding how the classified system is going to be used. That being said, a very brief explanation is here.

What happens is the racing secretary will rank each horse against the horses being dropped in on the particular day of racing for classified system. Based on the level of horses entered, the horse will be ranked. Let's say a horse raced in B last week and assume this week there are some stakes races so a trainers decide to ship in some of their Meadowlands and Yonkers horses alongwith the stakes contestants. Because of this, the horse ranked B last week can drop into the C's for this week. The idea being to form competive races each week with no horse going off below 3-1 (wouldn't that be nice).

As for stiffing a horse to get dropped into a lower class. One of the factors being used is money earned the last five starts. So unless you are willing to stiff a horse for as much as five weeks, you are not necessarily going to drop down that much; dare I say the trainer/owner will not come out ahead earnings wise by doing so? Also, for those who think a trainer will stiff a horse in a classified race, don't you think the same trainer will do so in a conditioned race? Yes, I know the racing secretary may seem to have too much control, but if done right, it can make for some exciting racing with decent pay-offs. I personally am sick of seeing a parade of horses less than 2-1 winning races. If a trainer doesn't like classified racing, they can race in claimers and may I remind them, Saratoga, Pocono, Monticello are close enough for them to race at.

Also, classified racing makes it easier for novices to be attracted to harness racing. This is particulary helpful for the Tioga area market and elsewhere. If you don't have novices betting, where is the 'dumb' money going to come from?

Yes, some of us will have to change the way we handicap. That is unfortunate, however we are smart and should be able to adapt relatively quickly. However, if something is not done, there won't be any racing to bet.

Of course, the proof is in the pudding. Let's see how it goes.

[Ray2000]

Way to start off tone3.....great picks...

Attached is the Pencils vs Chips status that will be at Tioga Downs site when they get the website modified.



Contest Standings as of May 1, 2010

Race Win Win Win Win Exacta Exacta Exacta
Summary Bets Hits Return ROI Bets Return ROI

tone3 10 5 $47.90 140% 20 $156.40 291%
Morning Line 10 5 $38.00 90% 20 $31.30 -22%
traynor 7 3 $24.80 77% 14 $10.40 -63%
tamaharbor 10 4 $35.00 75% 19 $0.00 -100%
mirror Image 10 3 $25.40 27% 0 $0.00 -
JFGHarness 9 2 $14.00 -22% 17 $0.00 -100%
TM Chatsworth 10 2 $14.30 -29% 19 $10.40 -73%
Bobby Z 10 3 $13.10 -35% 20 $8.10 -80%
Rays Robot 10 2 $9.50 -53% 19 $8.10 -79%
Mel 10 2 $6.30 -69% 20 $8.10 -80%
markgoldie 10 2 $6.30 -69% 8 $0.00 -100%





Unofficial handle $110,561

Lets see if we can reverse order those standings today, post time 1:30,

Good Luck All

Any mistakes let me know there may be a bug or 2

[mirror Image]

Sunday may 2 Tioga all win bets

R1 4
R2 3
R3 4
R4 4
R5 5
R6 8
R7 3
R8 5
R9 8
R10 5
R11 3
R12 1
R13 4

Good Luck to all

[mirror Image]

Ray, I'm confused (not hard to do):D . Do you have to
make both 400 win bets and 800 ex bets or can I just
Make the required 400 win bets and not pick any ex's ? Thanks.

[tamaharbor]

Tamaharbor Selections - Sunday May 2

1. 3,6,1
2. 4,2,1
3. 4,3,1
4. 1,6,2
5. 6,7,8
6. 4,1,5
7. 1,2,9
8. 1,6,5
9. 5,7,2
10. 3,5,8
11. 2,1,8
12. 3,5,6
13. 4,7,1

[Ray2000]

mirror Image

just playing wins is fine, 400 minimum


but at the end, if your 0% exacta ROI is tops :D no prize

ray

[melman]

Mirror---Here is the way I understand it. Your fine with just making win picks. Since there are two prizes if you make exacta picks also you just give yourself another chance at one of them.

Ray & Nick===You two must have felt right at home with Roger calling the races last night. When I first clicked on the Tioga video I thought I had made a mistake and gotten The Meadows. :) Roger and the video staff did a good job of showing and explaining the DQ in race 3. Since that was the only hit I had on the night I was also in full agreement with the judges take down. :D Only two small priced winners for my picks on opening night but I had some bad trips. Got to have some excuse. :) Not all that bad however as the main battle between BobbyZ and me vs the computer geeks was a draw. :D Good job by Tone3 and the morning line guy.

Nick & Jason---Your track looked great on my video. Looked to me like a job well done. For today's card I see you have drivers Bartlett, Stratton, Kakaley to go along with Ranger and Fluet. Not bad at all. Maybe you can talk Billy (the kid) Dobson to come over to Tioga and compete. All the best for your meet and I hope your opening night handle was up compared to last years opening night.

[Augie16]

I'm jumping in on this rainy Sunday if it isn't too late.

Race 1. 2,4,6
2. 2,1,3
3. 3,6,7
4. 4,2,6
5. 5,1,4
6. 3,6,1
7. 2,6,8
8. 3,1,5
9. 8,9,6
10. 2,5,7
11. 2,5,3
12. 6,5,8
13. 4,7,1,8

[beaucap]

Can i still enter the contest?
Bo:jump:

[Ray2000]

Bo

Sure

There are 57 race days. One can enter as late as June ? and still get in the required 400 Win plays. I'm guessing players will be in some days, out some days.

Good luck Augie and Bo and thanks for the picks....


GLA

[LottaKash]

Mirror---
Nick & Jason---Your track looked great on my video. Looked to me like a job well done. For today's card I see you have drivers Bartlett, Stratton, Kakaley to go along with Ranger and Fluet. Not bad at all. Maybe you can talk Billy (the kid) Dobson to come over to Tioga and compete. All the best for your meet and I hope your opening night handle was up compared to last years opening night.

I second that emotion, good things seem to be happening there....:jump:

best,

[beaucap]

And Here they come...MAY 2nd


Race 1...7-3-2
2...9-3-5
3...4-7-6
4...4-7-3
5...4-2-5
6...5-1-8
7...2-6-8
8...3-9-6
9...9-4-5
10...5-3-7
11...8-1-9
12...8-3-7
13...8-4-9

Good Luck to all......

[traynor]

Tioga Downs May 2

R01 - 2-5-6
R02 - 3-9-8
R03 - 4-1-2
R04 - 9-3-7
R05 - 4-5-8
R06 - 8-5-3
R07 - 3-2-9
R08 - 3-5-9
R09 - 8-9-1
R10 - 2-6-9
R11 - 3-7-5
R12 - 1-6-8
R13 - 4-1-7

[DeanT]

Nice pick in race 1 Mirror Image! Those help the ROI :)

[mirror Image]

Should of listened to Melman about giving myself another shot buy picking ex's .
Had the win bet and ex at you bet :jump: $39.00- $474.00.
I'm starting to like Tioga :D

[Ray2000]

mirror

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

had you played the exacta the contest would be over, (damn near)

[beaucap]

I'm on youbet and the sound is buzzing. Everyone having same problem?

[mirror Image]

Thanks Ray and Dean. Same with me on youbet Beaucap.

[mirror Image]

Was that time right for Cactus Creek in the 4th ?

25.1 52.3 1:20.0 1:50.0:eek: Must of had his weaties this morning :D

[mirror Image]

Way to go Melman $22.80 winner, $152.50 ex and a ice cold
tri for $281.00 for a buck :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[melman]

Tks Mirror I got some company and bang a solid hit. Just trying to keep up with you. :) Can't let these computer geeks have any hope. :D

[mirror Image]

Hey Melman your like the oldies station "the hits just keep on coming" :ThmbUp:

[melman]

Ray---In looking over the picks it looks like that Chatworth guys had there computer buzzing. They had a VERY nice day. The battle is ON. :)

[Augie16]

Don't ever count out RDT. He has always been (like most of his picks) a solid closer.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

I'm jumping in on this rainy Sunday if it isn't too late.

Race 1. 2,4,6
2. 2,1,3
3. 3,6,7
4. 4,2,6
5. 5,1,4
6. 3,6,1
7. 2,6,8
8. 3,1,5
9. 8,9,6
10. 2,5,7
11. 2,5,3
12. 6,5,8
13. 4,7,1,8

Welcome aboard Augie!

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Got all caught up in the Pens/Habs matchup today that I forgot the post time was a matinee....still have yet to see a race live....no good.

[Ray2000]

Great job mel and mirror, I hope these are right, I'll correct them tomorrow if not.



Contest Standings as of May 2, 2010

Race Win Win Win Win Exacta Exacta Exacta
Summary Bets Hits Return ROI Bets Return ROI

tone3 10 5 $47.90 140% 20 $156.40 291%
mirror Image 23 5 $73.20 59% 0 -
tamaharbor 23 6 $69.60 51% 45 $152.50 69%
TM Chatsworth 23 5 $69.50 51% 45 $162.90 81%
Mel 23 7 $62.10 35% 46 $196.00 113%
Morning Line 23 8 $57.30 25% 46 $88.60 11%
Beaucap 13 4 $21.70 -17% 26 $17.40 -67%
JFGHarness 9 2 $14.00 -22% 17 $0.00 -100%
Bobby Z 23 6 $32.00 -30% 46 $8.10 -91%
Augie16 13 2 $11.00 -58% 26 $0.00 -100%
Rays Robot 23 3 $16.10 -65% 45 $8.10 -91%
markgoldie 10 2 $6.30 -69% 8 $0.00 -100%

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Both Mel and TM had some nice calls today! great job.

[marksinger]

Where does Chatsworth give their picks? Sometimes they're very good, sometimes not. I guess you can say that about everyone's picks. Mark

[marksinger]

Bet you enjoyed this weekend's contest. You did a very good job, as always. Mark

[DeanT]

Where does Chatsworth give their picks? Sometimes they're very good, sometimes not. I guess you can say that about everyone's picks. Mark
They are available on Trackmaster for a fee. I think they are fairly good picks. I find they have some sneaky-good choices.

[tone3]

Thanks for the kudos :ThmbUp:
Busy past two days and just logged on from yesterday.
I'll bore you guys with the details.
Had to work from 6AM to 12 yesterday. Got home made my picks and submitted to PA.
My wife and I arrived at Tioga about 3:30 had the BBQ buffet which was excellent. Got to to talk to Jason Settlemoir a little bit he was very busy and commended him on the lower takeouts.
I want to say here that the track personnel did a terrific job with such a large crowd. They made the day at the races very enjoyable. I did get shut out on a bunch of races but it was mostly my fault for waiting too long to bet.
After the racing was over we made our usual trip to Coasters bar and got to see many drivers and trainers that we had not talked to since last year and stayed way to late.
We then woke up way to early today and drove from Endicott to New Rochelle and back. (about 6 hours of driving) My son honored at an awards dinner at Iona College had to be there for that :jump: I missed my picks for today :(

[willphorse]

Some of you had a great weekend at Tioga :ThmbUp:

I will be joining you next week! Was taking notes this week and creating myself a nice little "Track Model".

If some of you keep hitting like this, we may see some nice ROI's from this site!

[JFGHarness]

I forgot Race 5 when I put the info in. Sorry

[JFGHarness]

Had over 15,000 people Saturday night at Tioga Downs. It was a fabulous night. My picks did ok also. So all in all a good night. I will be the guest Handicapper Next Saturday Night(John) at Tioga Downs So watch me Live!


Have a great week.

[traynor]

I understand that tracking all the various possible wagers is a pain. Have you arrived at some standard strategy so that comparisons are of apples and oranges? For example, what counts and what doesn't?

If three selections are provided for each race, I assume the top choice is the win position, and the second and third are place position for exactas, or in sequence for trifectas? That is, trifectas only count if the picks are in correct order A==>B==>C? Or are box exacta and box trifecta wagers allowed? Also, is there a facility to calculate reverse exactas (second to first)?

All of this is going to become increasingly important as the meet progresses, because different entrants have different wagering strategies, and keeping track of them all can be a chore.

Specifically, if the implementation strategy is specific for each entrant, in each race, or even for each racing card, monitoring and comparing results is going to be very, very time consuming, and involve a LOT of calculations by hand.

[willphorse]

Traynor,

I am not speaking for Ray, but will explain my understanding of it. For 1, it does help his math. This is a fun contest and it would be very wrong for Ray to have to do all the different calculations for every persons specific wagers.

2nd is in my opinion "Boxing" wagers diminishes handicapping ability. A person able to spend $4 a race, and make consistent profits A on top of BC shows true handicapping superiority.

That is my personal understanding of the issue. if incorrect, can somebody please explain lol.

[JFGHarness]

should have been this for saturday night

r1-197
r2-375
r3-514
r4-1679

r6-682
r7-3421
r8-175
r9-142
r10-9451

[DeanT]

Had over 15,000 people Saturday night at Tioga Downs. It was a fabulous night. My picks did ok also. So all in all a good night. I will be the guest Handicapper Next Saturday Night(John) at Tioga Downs So watch me Live!


Have a great week.

Cool!!!! Good luck.

[Ray2000]

Sorry traynor, I accidentally left you out of the standings.



Contest Standings as of May 3, 2010

Race Win Win Win Win Exacta Exacta Exacta
Summary Bets Hits Return ROI Bets Return ROI

tone3 10 5 $47.90 140% 20 $156.40 291%
Mirror Image 23 5 $73.20 59% 0 $0.00 -
tamaharbor 23 6 $69.60 51% 45 $152.50 69%
TM Chatsworth 23 5 $69.50 51% 45 $162.90 81%
Mel 23 7 $62.10 35% 46 $196.00 113%
Morning Line 23 8 $57.30 25% 46 $109.50 19%
traynor 21 6 $44.10 5% 42 $88.60 5%
Beaucap 13 4 $21.70 -17% 26 $17.40 -67%
JFGHarness 9 2 $14.00 -22% 17 $0.00 -100%
Bobby Z 23 6 $32.00 -30% 46 $8.10 -91%
Augie16 13 2 $11.00 -58% 26 $0.00 -100%
Rays Robot 23 3 $16.10 -65% 45 $8.10 -91%
markgoldie 10 2 $6.30 -69% 8 $0.00 -100%





I may have to go to posting the data as an image. (non members won't see it but I can't figure out how to preserve spacing inside HTML code

[The Tioga Team]

First, thanks to all who have shown interest in the Tioga races, particularly those taking the time to play the contest and specifically Ray, Mel & Bobby.

It was a great opening day, maybe 10-12,000 people passed through the doors and a good crowd stayed for the live. Handle was pretty much on par with 2009. Sunday's handle was $151,000 all sources, again on par with 2009. The distraction in KY and day-after-swoon considered...OK numbers.

Now...let me try to address the ABC system and our reason for implementing it this season, my opinions. First difference between now and then, almost no trainers drive their own horses anymore. The catch drivers are not gonna sit on one for three or four weeks, with very rare exceptions, not enough of a factor to dissuade us. Then, the pools at our tracks would not support trainers making up the difference by that avenue, again 97% of the time. I am convinced the incidence of class management racing is no more prevalant with the ABC than it is in the NW races. And...if I see a guy that I feel has raced in a fashion that he feels will keep him in a class (late charge to just miss) if the horse merits it he goes up just like the winner.

Then, the racing biz is far more mobile than it used to be. So, we have horses in and out every week (particularly Tioga, where the races are comprised of 70-75% ship-ins each week) and their last five starts swing with the purses offered where they have been racing. We get the horses that are getting beat up at Pocono and Yonkers and are looking for relief, then some MR, BR & STGA shippers to go with our locals. More often than not, a horse coming from YR or PCD that's down to, say NW 2500 L5 will choke a BR/MR/TD/VD horse that meets the same money class. We can now place the horses where they face their own ilk, in our opinion.

Another issue we always face is a shortage of pacing mares. Both places, it has been a struggle to fill mare races for the past few years. To get a race filled, we would have to manipulate conditions to the point that it often looked like we're writing a specific horse into a race...usually it was done just to get enough to go. At Vernon (where I am working this summer) we have four pacing mare classification races this Thursday, more than there has been for a long time.

So far as the favor to shippers and trainers that help you fill a class, I tend to protect the locals more than romance the shippers, personally, and it is difficult to keep a guy in a class that he feels is too high for the horse, and a lot of times they are right. And the dilemma on when to drop and exchanges is a difficult proposition. But...I've been doing this for 10 years and those same situations exist with money classes too...they always have and always will.

It's been my experience that the guys with fairly large stables and years of experience know their horses capabilities...the horse is gonna race 30 times in a year, he's gonna win 6-7-8 races, he's gonna make $45k, he's gonna be in good spots 10X, he's gonna be in 4 or 5 great spots and he's gonna be in deep the same number. That's just how it goes...the smart ones know that.

Yeah, it puts the onus squarely on the race office, and believe me, I could certainly live without the scrutiny. But...I think it can work better than $$$ classes and we are willing to try and judge the results.

That's my story...

[LottaKash]

Yeah, it puts the onus squarely on the race office, and believe me, I could certainly live without the scrutiny. But...I think it can work better than $$$ classes and we are willing to try and judge the results.

That's my story...

Fair enough "Tioga"....A very nice explanation of what the thinking is these days, up there on 17....I will be watching with renewed enthusiasm this year...

I wish you a smashing success this season....You guys have done a good thing with the lowering of the take, and I hope, in time, that the people will catch on, and learn that by getting a better shake at the races, their money will go a lot further....

I hope to get some of "that kash" too...

best,

[Pacingguy]

It was a great opening day, maybe 10-12,000 people passed through the doors and a good crowd stayed for the live. Handle was pretty much on par with 2009. Sunday's handle was $151,000 all sources, again on par with 2009. The distraction in KY and day-after-swoon considered...OK numbers.

Do you have more or less simulcasting outlets this year?

[Not4Love]

Did Tioga have to go up against the Derby last year for opening night? Like what you guys are trying to do.

[DeanT]

Update on the contest et al, at the blog.

http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2010/05/imagination.html

[LottaKash]

Update on the contest et al, at the blog.

http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2010/05/imagination.html

Hey Dean, good, good ,good....

best,

[mirror Image]

Looks like a good weekend of racing at Tioga.
13 races on Friday, 12 on Saturday and 13 on Sunday :jump: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: .

[Ray2000]

Mirror


They haven't taken down entries for Friday 2009 at their site.

Racing resumes Saturday I believe.

[trying2win]

A suggestion to the TIOGA TEAM:

--I saw this idea being used by ELLIS PARK a few years ago. On their website, they had a title something like this:

'OUR ADW PARTNERS'

--They listed all the ADWS where online bettors could send in their bets to their track. I thought it was a great idea. Instead of handicappers trying to search all over the place for an ADW to bet the TIOGA DOWNS races, why not make it easier for bettors, and list the ADWS right on your website?

T2W

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
~"There are these two things you can have in life, REASONS or RESULTS.....REASONS DON'T COUNT."

--Dr. Robert Anthony

[trying2win]

Thanks for the accolades, gang. Glad to help out. Especially for a racetrack like TIOGA DOWNS trying to do something positive to help bettors, via the lower takeouts.

T2W

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
~“You have not lived a perfect day, even though you have earned your money, unless you have done something for someone who will never be able to repay you.”

--Ruth Smeltzer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[mirror Image]

Mirror


They haven't taken down entries for Friday 2009 at their site.

Racing resumes Saturday I believe.

Wow thanks Ray, I just clicked on those 3 days and never looked at
the dates :blush: I blame it on the heat:D . USTA site has 12 races listed for Sat.
nothing up for Sunday yet.

[The Tioga Team]

Thanks for the accolades, gang. Glad to help out. Especially for a racetrack like TIOGA DOWNS trying to do something positive to help bettors, via the lower takeouts.

T2W

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Word of your good deed has been circulated amongus...much appreciated.

It is looking good for a page dedicated to handicapping off our site...have a look over the next day or two and log in the feedback.
http://www.tiogadowns.com/index.htm

Should have the contest info and expert selections up there (as they should be) for the coming weekend's racing.

Twelve pretty good looking (for us, anyway) races Saturday and Sunday is always our strongest. The Saturday quality is much improved over last week, I think.

Bet some winners,
Nick

[willphorse]

Is there going to be a new thread for this weeks selections or just post in this thread?

[LottaKash]

Is there going to be a new thread for this weeks selections or just post in this thread?

Will, I think Ray should start a new one for each week....This thread is so long as it is....I believe that it will get very confusing after awhile..

"HEY RAY" are you listening....???....What do you think ???

best,

[Ray2000]

willphorse
Lottakash
and others

Just continuing this thread to a new one wouldn't be helpful, but I would like to see a thread for just Tioga contest(s) picks and standings, so I'll start one later today. Any other thoughts and comments on Tioga's take-out, fan friendliness, wagering (other than contest related) can be posted wherever you all think is best.

[willphorse]

Well, Ray,

Takeout for 1 is very helpful, and I wish them luck with it. The way thoroughbreds are going, Some Thoro-cappers may come to the "dark side" if they see a continuing trend in lowering takeout.

Fans are always friendly both on and off. There is 1 handicapper that goes to Tioga I cant stand. I will not mention any names, as I know a few are from the area... but this guy walks around like VIP, and shrugs everybody off like he's "The Man", yet If you see him wager, or see him at the track, HORRIBLE lol. But I guess you get that at every track. Other than that 1 persons "Snub" attitude, seems to me like not just Tioga fans, but most Harness Racing fans are very acceptable! :ThmbUp: Hope it continues.

And 3rd, about the contest. I like the way you're running it Ray. You are out to prove WINNER handicapping talent. Exacta Boxes are much easier to handicap, but a handicapper having to KEY a horse on top of 2 others and hit an exacta, that takes skill. Not only to do, but to make a profit doing it!

Phenomenal Idea!

Also, a quick question for ya Ray. I know you use your "Bot". Do you use universal settings for all tracks, or do you adjust based on track?

As Always Good Luck, and Good Racing :ThmbUp: :jump:

[Ray2000]

will

The "Bot" adjusts for individual tracks using this table of speed rating adjustments found in reply #6 at


http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64718


and adjusts for post position bias similar to TrackMaster post bias numbers found in their programs under the saddle number. I use all of the races for the past year, I think TM uses only the last 30 days.

[willphorse]

Puter Wiz :jump: :jump: HAHA

BTW, Good Luck in the Software Development Challenge! You will be tough to beat!

[LottaKash]

Puter Wiz :jump: :jump: HAHA

BTW, Good Luck in the Software Development Challenge! You will be tough to beat!

Yeah Ray, GL with the SDC....

Ray decided many moons ago to develop his software so that he doesn't have to spend his precious time handicapping the races all day, by using his brain.....He uses that to dull all his senses by sipping Amaretto all day....And when he is not sipping, he is usually repairing his Snow-Blower...:jump:

best,

[RaceTrackDaddy]

6,1,2
2,8,9
3,6,4
1,4,5
2,3,7
8,6,7
4,2,6
5,6,4
2,7,5
5,4,1 entry
3,8,1
6,5,3
Contest Day 3 Selections (May 8th)
rtd
(aka bobby z)

[DeanT]

That's good to use the other thread Ray just for picks! Nice idea. I will ask if we can make that a sticky.

A couple of updates:

Tioga's website will have the picks and standings up soon.

As well, Tioga has added $100 to the pot for the challenge. So that brings $300 donated to the Standardbred Adoption Society of the winners choice (mike from Pace $100, HANA $100 and Tioga $100).

Good luck and we hope to see some of you on the live blog/picks for Saturday night harness racing. We'll be starting at 6:50PM. Tioga races will be on tap, of course. Also on tap for Saturday, the Diplomat Final, with NA Cup and Meadowlands Pace eligibles, and the return of 2YO pacer of the year Nebupannezar at Woodbine, and the big one of the evening the $220k Berrys Creek Final at the Meadowlands.

[Not4Love]

Where is the live/blog? thanks.

[DeanT]

Right here:

http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/

On Saturday, where a post is, we'll have a live blog window, where anyone can make comments or picks. If people are interested it'll run from about 6:50 to 11:30, or whenever the races are over (I think Woodbine would be ending last at 11:30 or so).

If we don't get enough people, I will probably be there talking to myself, which is nothing new for me :)

Pop by if you'd like. Maybe we can catch some winners and up the handle at Tioga.

[Not4Love]

I'll plan on checking it out. Thanks

[LottaKash]

If we don't get enough people, I will probably be there talking to myself, which is nothing new for me :) .

Hey Dean, you too ?....I thought it was only I....Hello "me"...:jump:

best,

[melman]

Nick/Jason---This year the BigM started a "drivers choice" feature. They let the betting public know which horse among the ones the driver was listed on he took for his drive. I think on Sunday driver Jason Bartlett was named on as many as five horses in the same race. Maybe you could include this info on your new handicapper's page. The BigM has Sam Mckee announce it before each race.

[DeanT]

I see Mel's ex ROIis 113%. I plan on betting $20 ex's all weekend on his picks. You can thank me later for the price killing :)

Seriously, a couple good hits there dude. Well done. :ThmbUp:

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Nick/Jason---This year the BigM started a "drivers choice" feature. They let the betting public know which horse among the ones the driver was listed on he took for his drive. I think on Sunday driver Jason Bartlett was named on as many as five horses in the same race. Maybe you could include this info on your new handicapper's page. The BigM has Sam Mckee announce it before each race.

Hate to mention it but Roger (Voice) Huston has been doing that for years. Recently they have added the graphics too!

They stopped announcing the claims prior to the race and only call it after the race has been run. Wish they would go back and tell us who is claimed. All the backside and every security guard on the track hear it 15 minutes till the race as they broadcast it to security. You might have to tip your guard to get that info presently.

[mirror Image]

Back to back bombs by Melman $33.40 and $41.80 :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: .
Also to Tone $41.80, DeanT $41.80 plus ex $91.00 :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: .
and to Augie16 $33.40 :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: , and last but not least me $41.80 :jump:
Almost forgot Beaucap winner $41.80:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:
Way to go:ThmbUp:

[melman]

I'm having a "Tioga Party" at my house tonight. Needless to say it's getting a little wild. Well maybe a lot wild. :lol:

[DeanT]

Huge night for Mel!!! Congrats.

Thanks to everyone who came to the blog, too. WE had quite a few readers, which is good for a first time.

Good luck tomorrow!!!

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Huge night for Mel!!! Congrats.

Thanks to everyone who came to the blog, too. WE had quite a few readers, which is good for a first time.

Good luck tomorrow!!!

Great capping Mel...sorry to bringing the Pencils team down....Corey Braden brings them bombs like his Dad Gary did back in the day....come to think about it, Corey is better...lol

Sorry for the excess for the team...hope to pull my weight tomorrow!
rtd
aka bobby z

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Should of read:

Sorry for the excess WEIGHT for the team...hope to pull my weight tomorrow!
rtd
aka bobby z

[Ray2000]

Congrats to mel and others for some nice returns and great capping last night

Mel $90.60
Mirror Image $60.90
DeanT $60.40
tone3 $53.80
Beaucap $52.50
Augie16 $40.20

My bad night was topped off with a power outage :mad: , had just enough battery juice with an ac converter to watch the Pens.

[The Tioga Team]

Nick/Jason---This year the BigM started a "drivers choice" feature. They let the betting public know which horse among the ones the driver was listed on he took for his drive. I think on Sunday driver Jason Bartlett was named on as many as five horses in the same race. Maybe you could include this info on your new handicapper's page. The BigM has Sam Mckee announce it before each race.

We will do that Mel, and try to get them on the feed as well for next week.

[melman]

Nick/Jason---One other request/idea I have for you guys. Give a call to Freehold Raceway and see if you could get the GREAT Larry Lederman to come up and be a guest race caller on a Sunday. Not only is he a great race caller who gets ALL the calls RIGHT, he also has a lot of fun doing it. With Larry you get a lot of different callers. He does a very good Tom Durkin, Roger Huston, "Bullet Bob Myer" Dave Johnson and a super funny Jackie Mason. No I am not related to Mr Lederman :) I just really enjoy his talent.

Also I think your race sec/morning line guy is doing a great job. Give that man a raise. :D

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Love the idea Mel.
I second the motion on the floor.

[The Tioga Team]

Nick/Jason---One other request/idea I have for you guys. Give a call to Freehold Raceway and see if you could get the GREAT Larry Lederman to come up and be a guest race caller on a Sunday. Not only is he a great race caller who gets ALL the calls RIGHT, he also has a lot of fun doing it. With Larry you get a lot of different callers. He does a very good Tom Durkin, Roger Huston, "Bullet Bob Myer" Dave Johnson and a super funny Jackie Mason. No I am not related to Mr Lederman :) I just really enjoy his talent.

Also I think your race sec/morning line guy is doing a great job. Give that man a raise. :D

We practice moderation with Bluhm, not too high...not too low...he may abandon us for reality TV's "Celebrity Race Secretary Handicappers". That just can't have a happy ending.

LL is penciled in for a week or two this summer...we like him as well.

[trying2win]

Two questions for the TIOGA TEAM for Sun. May 9/10. Both in the 'HOW COME?' department:

1. How come TIOGA DOWNS is not on the www.brisnet.com online toteboard today? I think I've seen it on there on some previous days. Maybe AMTOTE is asleep at the switch? You may have to phone them and tell them to WAKE UP! An online toteboard is very important for bettors.

2. How come TIOGA DOWNS is on the list of tracks that LINK2BET.COM covers, yet is not on their betting menu today?

Thanks,

T2W

[trying2win]

I watched the 12th race today at Tioga Downs on live video, and didn't realize a couple of things. I didn't know Tioga Downs was a 5/8's of a mile harness oval. I had assumed it was a 1/2 mile oval. Then when I watched this 12th race, I saw that they race 9 horses across on the starting gate. Of course, if I had checked out the information for this track at www.ustrotting.com ahead of time, I could have learned all about these things...duh! :D

I must say it was a pretty exciting race to watch and listen to. I don't know the name of the announcer, but I was impressed by his call of the race.

T2W
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
~"Many people take no care of their money till they come nearly to the end of it, and others do just the same with their time."

--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[trying2win]

I haven't been able to find any list online of ADWS carrying Tioga Downs. So I thought I would start a list of the ADWS I know that carry this track:

1. YOU BET

2. BET AMERICA (Canadian residents can also open an account at this ADW and wager and watch the Tioga Downs races online)

3. TWIN SPIRES

4. ?

5. ?

6. ?

---Please add to this list of other ADWS you know carry TIOGA DOWNS. In my opinion, this track deserves all the extra help we can give them, as a reward for their initiative of lowering their track takeouts this year. :ThmbUp:

Thanks,

T2W

-------------------------------------------------------------------
~"Formal education will make you a living; self-education will make you a fortune."

--Jim Rohn

[trying2win]

Looks like there a lot of PA members too lazy to do a search to find more ADWS that carry the Tioga Downs races. It's okay, I found a couple more to make it five I've found so far. The revised list is now:

1. YOU BET

2. BET AMERICA

3. TWIN SPIRES

4. DAY AT THE TRACK

5. XPRESSBET


T2W
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
~"Persons with mediocre accomplishments are quick to explain why they HAVEN'T, why the DON'T, why they CAN'T, and why they AREN'T."

--David J. Schwartz Ph.D (not the Dave Schwartz of HSH fame)

[The Tioga Team]

[QUOTE=trying2win]Looks like there a lot of PA members too lazy to do a search to find more ADWS that carry the Tioga Downs races. It's okay, I found a couple more to make it five I've found so far. The revised list is now:

1. YOU BET

2. BET AMERICA

3. TWIN SPIRES

4. DAY AT THE TRACK

5. XPRESSBET


[QUOTE]

as I believe you suggested...

http://www.tiogadowns.com/SupportingFiles/documents/partners.pdf

[trying2win]

To the Tioga Team:

Thanks for the link. I was checking out your website earlier in the day to see if you had such a link for ADW partners. My oversight...sorry I slipped up. I couldn't see the trees for the forest. :D

That is one very handy list you compiled for harness bettors to know about. Good show!

Thanks,

T2W

[RaceTrackDaddy]

You can add Ebet USA (Penn National's wagering platform).
PhoneBet (Pha Park wagering)platform)
https://www.ibetmohegan.com/racing/ (Mohegan Sun wagering platform)

In essence, all Pa ADW carry Tioga.
Still no word on both Wheeling Downs and Mountaineer. Maybe a marketing person should give them both a call.

[my_nameaintearl]

Any projection of what the handle is at compared to last year?

[Not4Love]

Wondering if the Tioga team knows anything about the numbers compared to last year. thanks.

[The Tioga Team]

Guys,

This is Dustin, I work with Nick, Jason B., and Jason S. at Tioga with simulcast, publicity, and a few other things. I dont have the exact numbers on hand for the first two opening weekends, but when I get back to work tomorrow I will look them up and let you guys know how we are compared to last year. Thanks for all your support so far this year!

[trying2win]

Two questions for the TIOGA TEAM for Sun. May 9/10. Both in the 'HOW COME?' department:

1. How come TIOGA DOWNS is not on the www.brisnet.com online toteboard today? I think I've seen it on there on some previous days. Maybe AMTOTE is asleep at the switch? You may have to phone them and tell them to WAKE UP! An online toteboard is very important for bettors.

2. How come TIOGA DOWNS is on the list of tracks that LINK2BET.COM covers, yet is not on their betting menu today?

Thanks,

T2W

To the Tioga Team:

Hopefully, you won't forget about these questions I asked yesterday. Actually, forget about question 2. I'll contact LINK2BET and ask them why.

By the way, when I was watching one of the Tioga Downs races yesterday on live video, I noticed you had a line something like this on your infield toteboard:

'THE LOWEST TAKEOUT IN THE LAND'

--I thought that was a great idea. :ThmbUp: Hopefully, some unenlightened racetrack executives from other tracks saw that sign on the Tioga Downs live video, and a light bulb went on.

Thanks,

T2W

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
~"Money never starts an idea. It is always the idea that starts the money."

--Owen Laughlin
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[melman]

Way to go BobbyZ thanks to your efforts our felt-tip pen and pencil squad put a hurting on those "geeks" last night. : As an old time trainer once said to his go to driver "go to the front and then improve your position". :) I had a severe case of 2nd and 3rd "its" last night but you carried the ball for the team.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Way to go BobbyZ thanks to your efforts our felt-tip pen and pencil squad put a hurting on those "geeks" last night. : As an old time trainer once said to his go to driver "go to the front and then improve your position". :) I had a severe case of 2nd and 3rd "its" last night but you carried the ball for the team.

Thank you Mel
You be surprised at what you can learn from watching the races. First week, I was at mountaineer who did not carry the signal and Sunday, I forgot it was a matinee..I was also too lazy to view the videos on archive at my ADW. Last week and this week I watch them and use those troubled trip horses that had pace or trot at the end of the mile....gotta love that..no computer sees that.

thanks again.
bobby z

[mirror Image]

Who's the jumper ? #2 Dancinwiththestarz in the 2nd
had $10,593. out of the $11,125. bet to place,no splash today :D .

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Who's the jumper ? #2 Dancinwiththestarz in the 2nd
had $10,593. out of the $11,125. bet to place,no splash today :D .

Not me....Tioga does not need that kind of handle..those minus pools suck for the bottom line plus the loss of breakage is a loss for the purses. Although she is one of the top fillies I have seen so far this year. I never could understand the reasoning of getting $2.10 on your money..

[trying2win]

To the TIOGA TEAM:

I contacted LINK2BET.COM, and they told me they had TIOGA DOWNS on their betting menus all along. However, they have 3 or 4 betting platforms on that website, and TIOGA DOWNS was missing on one of them. I guess that must have been the one I was looking at recently, and thought your track was missing altogether from their site. Looks like that oversight has been corrected.

By the way, I noticed that TIOGA DOWNS has been added recently to the betting menu at HPI. At least HPI members can also use the toteboard on that site, as TIOGA DOWNS has again been missing on the BRIS SUPERTOTE the last two days. Did you forget to contact AMTOTE to correct that omission? It makes it difficult for many online bettors, who would like to use the BRIS SUPERTOTE for info in making TIOGA DOWNS bets.

T2W

[mirror Image]

Not me....Tioga does not need that kind of handle..those minus pools suck for the bottom line plus the loss of breakage is a loss for the purses. Although she is one of the top fillies I have seen so far this year. I never could understand the reasoning of getting $2.10 on your money..

I spoke to soon, in the 5th #1 Felling You had something like
$20,000 of the $21,000 that was in the place pool.
I know it will never happen but I would like to see all place and
show betting eliminated on all races and force that money into
just the win pool or exotics :eek:

[RaceTrackDaddy]

It came to me that maybe the tracks that do not desire to lower their retention rates decided to pool their slush funds and will be taking bridge jumper positions on stake races at Tioga this meet. I realize that it is far from that happening in the real world but I always play "What if" in my mind. That scenario came up. I think the fact that they have a chance of losing the wad would make it highly improbable to happen....but What If it did?

[trying2win]

Since I've asked here several times why TIOGA DOWNS is not on the BRISNET SUPERTOTE, it appears no one has done anything about it. I don't whether its because of GOOD SOUND REASONS, or REASONS THAT SOUND GOOD. However, I found this link for an online toteboard for anyone wanting to check up on the latest on minutes to post, odds, results for TIOGA DOWNS:

http://www.prcharness.com/Simulcasting/Live_Toteboard/live_toteboard.html

T2W

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
~"There are these two things you can have in life...REASONS OR RESULTS...REASONS DON'T COUNT!"

--Dr. Robert Anthony

[Ray2000]

t2w

Twin Spires (Brisnet's sister company) carries Tioga's signal and live video.
It's strange it's not on their SuperTote.

I use a spreadsheet program that searches for Jumpers, Harville Exacta overlays and WPS-tote board oddities and the pool averages from yesterday were:


Win.....Place......Show....Exacta....Trifecta....D oubles.......Pic3
$2760....$896....*$1299....$4873......$4775....... .$2200.......$1079

*Show pool average includes Bridge jumper(s) in Race 6 ~$9,000

I have the Tioga Unofficial Handle for Yesterday at $191,465 with these average pools.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Woud love to see it approach 400k by season's end.

[trying2win]

t2w

Twin Spires (Brisnet's sister company) carries Tioga's signal and live video.
It's strange it's not on their SuperTote.

I use a spreadsheet program that searches for Jumpers, Harville Exacta overlays and WPS-tote board oddities and the pool averages from yesterday were:


Win.....Place......Show....Exacta....Trifecta....D oubles.......Pic3
$2760....$896....*$1299....$4873......$4775....... .$2200.......$1079

*Show pool average includes Bridge jumper(s) in Race 6 ~$9,000

I have the Tioga Unofficial Handle for Yesterday at $191,465 with these average pools.

Ray:

Thanks for your efforts in getting this info. :ThmbUp: Very interesting.

T2W
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
~"One of the most important principles of success is developing the habit of going the extra mile."

--Napoleon Hill
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[tone3]

Total Handle: $196,705 Attendance: 1121

[melman]

There was a very nice "spike" in pool totals last nite at Tioga. Couple of win pools over $8,000. Exotic pools were much better later in the night. Hope this keeps up. Maybe it was the Sunday night racing. Just glad to see it.

[Ray2000]

Tioga gets some ESPN print coverage....

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=finley_bill&id=5512952