Rachel's race is 4 hours before the oaks

[Jasonm921]

This is what is wrong with racing. It's bad enough three race tracks couldn't coordinate and synchronize post times for the Santa Anita Derby, Wood Memorial and the Illinois Derby but what the heck is Churchill thinking? How does one track screw this up? They have Rachel Alexandra going to the post at 1:26 local time. The Oaks is at 5:45 local time. Are they kidding me? Why not put them back to back and on Bravo and get some coverage of the reigning horse of the year on live tv. Only in horse racing can this happen.

[cpitt84]

yeah im ticked about it. i got HRTV in hopes to watch rachel live. well, i work in the afternoon like most people so I can't watch it. Very annoying.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

All the people who preach product quality, marketing and new fans are the answers to racings problems instead of lowering the price are the ones in charge of decisions like these.

They seem not to care about what they preach other than as a defense when confronted with lowering takeout.

[philofbelloni]

I was a bit bullshit when I first saw that but as I read the card I felt a redeeming calm. In a perfect world, it would have been race 9 or 10 but this card is great. I'm impressed and may invite the boss and a few other co-workers for a long lunch at the local parlor.

[NTamm1215]

So their choices were run it as the 6th and have a very lucrative Pick 4 sequence or run it as the 10th race and get it on Bravo. I think they made the right choice.

NT

[Jasonm921]

The pick 4?????? ....this is why racing is relegated to begging for slots to put in there vacant halls where thousands once bet. I love a good bet as well but the cause for the common good is to get more people back into this sport. We are treated to a returning horse of the year and we treat the race like it is the 5th at belmont.

[joanied]

I have my TV set to record both the HRTV Oaks coverage...which starts early and goes pretty much all day...so I know I'll see Rachel...and set to record the Oaks on Bravo ( I love technology...we can record two shows at the same time:ThmbUp:) ...I am in hopes that Bravo will show the La Troinne and talk up Rachel pretty good...considering the veiwership of Bravo, they can even show Rachel's Vouge spread...that keeps in with the BS girlie stuff they show on Bravo.

And, if 'they' have any part of a brain still working, on the NBC telecast of the Derby, they need to show both the Oaks & the La Troinne...they have a great way to get into both those races in a segment because there's a filly in the Derby.

[Jasonm921]

Joanie ...I'm sure they will show the replay but the drama of rachel in the post parade against the horse that just beat her will not be shown. If she loses on friday she may be done. This may be the most important race of the weekend (if she loses) considering the year long ramifications. Unless there is a triple crown winner ofcourse.

[NTamm1215]

The pick 4?????? ....this is why racing is relegated to begging for slots to put in there vacant halls where thousands once bet. I love a good bet as well but the cause for the common good is to get more people back into this sport. We are treated to a returning horse of the year and we treat the race like it is the 5th at belmont.

Churchill is in the business of racing. Putting out a good racing product is among their chief concerns. They want patrons on-track and patrons wagering. They have Rachel running, that takes care of Part 1. They have a very strong card, that takes care of Part 2.

I don't really get chastising them for carding it as the 6th it seems to me like another in a long line of complaints made by members of this board at racetrack management that is misguided.

NT

[InsideThePylons-MW]

So their choices were run it as the 6th and have a very lucrative Pick 4 sequence or run it as the 10th race and get it on Bravo. I think they made the right choice.

NT

The sport has 2 well known current stars....Z and RA

Would any other sport put one of those on the undercard 4 hours before the main event when nobody is paying attention?

[joanied]

Joanie ...I'm sure they will show the replay but the drama of rachel in the post parade against the horse that just beat her will not be shown. If she loses on friday she may be done. This may be the most important race of the weekend (if she loses) considering the year long ramifications. Unless there is a triple crown winner ofcourse.

Correct...I can only assume those jugheads have no clue...if they want to attrack new fans, especially women, they need to show the lead up to the actual race...jeeze, they could really get some mileage outta this...just drives me nuts:bang: I love watching all the stuff before the race...the drama, the stories...there is so much to offer the casual fan, yet racing fails again & again.

this IS Rachel's biggest moment...I know that although I feel confident that she's going to win (if Calvin has to sprout wings himself to do it...he will) I will be a nervous wreck until it's over...
aaarrggghhhh:faint:

[rastajenk]

Why is this Rachel's biggest moment?

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Why is this Rachel's biggest moment?

Uhhh......If she gets beat, she is done?

[rastajenk]

So the rest of the year without Rachel will be like....the last eight months?

[sandpit]

Churchill is in the business of racing. Putting out a good racing product is among their chief concerns. They want patrons on-track and patrons wagering. They have Rachel running, that takes care of Part 1. They have a very strong card, that takes care of Part 2.

I don't really get chastising them for carding it as the 6th it seems to me like another in a long line of complaints made by members of this board at racetrack management that is misguided.

NT

Let me ask you this. What if Zenyatta was also in the race and it ended up being a five or six horse field? Would CD still have put it where they did on the card because of the Pick 4 or would they have put it right before the Oaks because of the star power? If they did move it to later on the card, their Pick 4 handle would have suffered as well. I'm going to be at the Oaks, and this move is puzzling. Believe me, many people come late to the track on Oaks and Derby days, many people will miss this race. :ThmbDown:

[Tom]

The great minds at CD never cease to amaze me.
And btw, 4 friggin' hours for a race card is waaaaaay too long.
1:26.........stupid decision by a stupid track. :ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

[Tom]

So the rest of the year without Rachel will be like....the last eight months?

:lol: Uh, yeah!

[DeanT]

Why is putting this in the pick 4 sequence good for their handle? It makes it a trap race and trap races are poor for horizontal handles.

I don't get this decision one bit.

[born2ride]

What's all the whining about? Following the LT is a juvey race where we get to see some of next years crop of 3yos, the Alysheba looks to be a good race, Setsuko in the American Turf, and then the Oaks. To me it looks like a fun day of racing. :)

[Jasonm921]

What's all the whining about? Following the LT is a juvey race where we get to see some of next years crop of 3yos, the Alysheba looks to be a good race, Setsuko in the American Turf, and then the Oaks. To me it looks like a fun day of racing. :)

Reading the responses on this thread and others....it appears that the problem with racing is that we don't have a common ground. Most sports are backed by a unified legion of fans who love the sport. Here...with racing we seemed to be split in three distinct sectors.
On one hand we have the FAN (this is where I fit). I want the sport to thrive and be mainstream. I want to go to work and have my coworkers talk about the latest Grade 1 race as if it was yesterdays Yankee game.

The second group is the BETTOR. All he needs is a dollar, SAM machine, a nice field of horses and he is good to go and ofcourse a low takeout.
Third, you have the HORSEMAN. He doesn't care about the other two groups. He cares primarily about the purses and how do we keep the money flowing in. Bring em more slots to keep the purses going higher and higher....doesn't matter that the racing fans have nowhere to stand because VTL's are now where the benches use to be.

Regarding Friday.....most people will be working when Rachel either wins or retires on the track. That is the truth. Outside of Churchill there will be very few people staying home to watch the Rachel race. It would have been nice to watch it when I got home......Live on TV....like a real sporting event.

[BluegrassProf]

Reading the responses on this thread and others....it appears that the problem with racing is that we don't have a common ground, and as a result, bitch about EVERYTHING. +1 :ThmbUp:

[turfnsport]

Churchill is in the business of racing. Putting out a good racing product is among their chief concerns.

NT

Well, they failed miserably the first two days of the meeting if you were paying attention.

Who watches Bravo? Women and gay men.

And they both think Rachel is cheeky fun!

It's a no brainer to have Rachel run later in the card...CD management out to lunch (again).

[kenwoodallpromos]

If RA losesc and DMC is out of the Oaks, how big can the pick 4 payoff get?

[Robert Goren]

What will you bet that umpteenth rerun of Criminal Intent on Bravo will get higher ratings than the Oaks or RA's race if they show it.

[Robert Goren]

Well, they failed miserably the first two days of the meeting if you were paying attention.

Who watches Bravo? Women and gay men.

And they both think Rachel is cheeky fun!

It's a no brainer to have Rachel run later in the card...CD management out to lunch (again). I don't know any women who the slightest idea who Rachel is. I don't hang out with gay men, so I have no idea about them.

[PaceAdvantage]

Uhhh......If she gets beat, she is done?Considering the number of folks who didn't think she'd race again after last month, I'm not going to put a lot of stock into the theory that another loss on Friday means automatic retirement.

[miesque]

I just printed out the PPs for the Late Pick 4 on Friday and I think Churchill made the right decision at least from where I see it. If the La Troienne had been in the Pick 4 along with the Oaks I would not have bothered putting together a Pick 4 tickets whereas the way it currently is set up, I will be playing a Pick 4 ticket. This race is on a FRIDAY afternoon, whether its at 1 PM or or 5 PM there are only going to be a certain number of people who will be watching the race. Its not like people across America are leaving work early to running off to Kentucky Oaks parties whereas they will be going to Kentucky Derby parties the next day. I am not even leaving work early for the Oaks. I am going to DVR the coverage on Bravo and if its anything like last year's coverage when I get home I will be fast forwarding through 90%+ of it to avoid puking at the ridiculous overload of pink and stupidity to catch the Oaks.

[joanied]

If she runs up the track...then she'd, IMO, be retired....but that ain't gonna happen...if she just gets beat again, she'll continue on, IMO. But this race is very important in that everyone wants to see her win and it sure would take the shine off our HoY 2009 if she lost.

About Bravo...jeeze, can't we do better than that...it's almost an insult to racing to have the Oaks on Bravo...it's a nothing channel. What ever happened to ESPN carrying races?

[Jasonm921]

Like I posted earlier. We are fractured as is evident by our posts. I want to watch rachel because I am a fan of the sport. The bettor doesn't want her race any where near their pick 4. The problem is the fans and bettors need each other to see our common interest flourish. Unfortunately it seems to never happen.

[miesque]

Well, I guess I just don't understand why its a big issue because I know I am going to see Rachel's race because it will be replayed at least once during Derby/Oaks coverage this weekend. In fact I would be willing to bet it gets shown a few times this weekend. if I don't want to wait for it I can just go to my Twinspires account and watch the replay myself.

[miesque]

One other point, as someone who strongly feel that racetracks to be self sufficient (aka without slot subsidies), it would be very hard for me to criticize a decision which will maximize their handle and therefore their revenue considering how important handle is on Oaks Friday relative to any other day which is not the Kentucky Derby (or the Breeders Cup on a year it happens to be at Churchill).

[Robert Goren]

About Bravo...jeeze, can't we do better than that...it's almost an insult to racing to have the Oaks on Bravo...it's a nothing channel. What ever happened to ESPN carrying races? The short answer is no. If ESPN wanted it, they would have it. It doesn't help that Churchill Downs is the sorriest excuse for a race track this side of Santa Anita. JMO

[Wickel]

Easy solution to this thread. Take the day off, like I did, and watch and wager on both races live and in color!!

[Jasonm921]

That's the problem the industry makes it harder than it should be to put the stars on display.

[Cratos]

That's the problem the industry makes it harder than it should be to put the stars on display.

Jason, you make a good point and it is befuddling to me that an industry which takes in approximately $8.5 billion a year (which is larger than any other major sport in the USA) if you only use the take amount as revenue cannot display its product to its fans and the general public better.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Like Wickel said.Take the day off and quit crying.I'm a fan,Friday is always a holiday every year.If you're such a big damn fan,take the damn day off and watch tha damn race!!:cool:

[WinterTriangle]

Why is this Rachel's biggest moment?

I would have added "in 2010 so far."


I'm sure, win or lose, that Rachel will have many big moments anyway.

[BluegrassProf]

Like Wickel said.Take the day off and quit crying.I'm a fan,Friday is always a holiday every year.If you're such a big damn fan,take the damn day off and watch tha damn race!!:cool: :D Can't say I disagree.

Or at very least, snag yourself an HRTV membership and inappropriately watch the stream on a work computer (if available)...

[joanied]

Like Wickel said.Take the day off and quit crying.I'm a fan,Friday is always a holiday every year.If you're such a big damn fan,take the damn day off and watch tha damn race!!:cool:

:ThmbUp: hell, that's what I'd do :jump: ...enjoy, enjoy, enjoy:)

[jamey1977]

Go for it. If a horse beats another horse. The same thing happens again. 7 out of 10 times. The next exact race. Anyone have a computer study ? I've kept track,with my forms out here. This is between the Top 3 contenders only. Not some stupid 10,000 dollar claimers who are 16 to 1. Rachel. I am so sick of this hype. Everyone acts like a stupid cheerleader rooting for the home team. This horse is shot and I'm going against her. I put my money where my mouth is. 100 dollars to win on Zardana . At 7 to 2. Maybe even 5 to 1. It's a great bet. Zardana will do the same thing, she will go by Rachel Alexandra again. David Flores will shift into gear and do the same thing he did in New Orleans. Go For It. Cheerleaders. I'm sick of this Rachel crap. Everyone sounds like those Beatles lovers. The Beatles are the greatest and The Stones and The Others are not as good. Bullcrap. See you at the windows.

[Tex9Down]

Joanied, you and I are big horse racing fans. (and all of the others on PA)

You have to know, horse racing is not a big deal in the grand scope of sports. The general public does not even know there's a race Saturday.

Who's your pick? I like Awesome Act.

[FenceBored]

Go for it. If a horse beats another horse. The same thing happens again. 7 out of 10 times. The next exact race. Anyone have a computer study ? I've kept track,with my forms out here. This is between the Top 3 contenders only. Not some stupid 10,000 dollar claimers who are 16 to 1. Rachel. I am so sick of this hype. Everyone acts like a stupid cheerleader rooting for the home team. This horse is shot and I'm going against her. I put my money where my mouth is. 100 dollars to win on Zardana . At 7 to 2. Maybe even 5 to 1. It's a great bet. Zardana will do the same thing, she will go by Rachel Alexandra again. David Flores will shift into gear and do the same thing he did in New Orleans. Go For It. Cheerleaders. I'm sick of this Rachel crap. Everyone sounds like those Beatles lovers. The Beatles are the greatest and The Stones and The Others are not as good. Bullcrap. See you at the windows.

I don't believe I'm familar with The Others. What were some of their big hits?

[PaceAdvantage]

Go for it. If a horse beats another horse. The same thing happens again. 7 out of 10 times. The next exact race. Anyone have a computer study ? I've kept track,with my forms out here. This is between the Top 3 contenders only. Not some stupid 10,000 dollar claimers who are 16 to 1. Rachel. I am so sick of this hype. Everyone acts like a stupid cheerleader rooting for the home team. This horse is shot and I'm going against her. I put my money where my mouth is. 100 dollars to win on Zardana . At 7 to 2. Maybe even 5 to 1. It's a great bet. Zardana will do the same thing, she will go by Rachel Alexandra again. David Flores will shift into gear and do the same thing he did in New Orleans. Go For It. Cheerleaders. I'm sick of this Rachel crap. Everyone sounds like those Beatles lovers. The Beatles are the greatest and The Stones and The Others are not as good. Bullcrap. See you at the windows.I'm sorry.

[Tom]

So I guess with the logic going on, RA buried Zardana, so she is a great filly because Zardana was the one to beat RA.

That sound about right?


Zenny won again and it didn't rain diamonds.
RA lost and the earth didn't swallow us up.
(Jury is still out on floods, though)


:D