La troinne...Rachel's next start

[joanied]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/56641/rachel-alexandra-likely-for-la-troienne?utm_source=BreakingNews&utm_medium=email

:jump: :jump: :jump: Ya gotta love Jess Jackson...already covering the bases, saying she'll be maybe 90% for this race :D I wonder if Careless Jewel will be entered...haven't read any where if Zardana is going... Rachel will be ready to fire, IMO...hey PA...this has to be great news for you:ThmbUp:

[GaryG]

Does this mean we can have a new thread about Rachel ducking Careless Jewel? The Rachel that we knew and loved last year would drown Careless Jewel. This years edition....I dunno.

[Grits]

Hope she rolls..............really rolls!!!! Glad to see her back.

[joanied]

I seriously doubt they will try 'ducking' anyone...it would be way to obvious if after the field is set, they scratch or something...no...she'll run...and as Grits said...I hope she rolls...really rolls:jump: :jump: :jump:
I can't wait.

[GaryG]

I seriously doubt they will try 'ducking' anyone...it would be way to obvious if after the field is set, they scratch or something...no...she'll run...and as Grits said...I hope she rolls...really rolls:jump: :jump: :jump:
I can't wait.That was a small attempt at humor, given all of the hostility directed to her on other threads. I hope she rolls also....I just hope the real Rachel is back.

[cpitt84]

I just subscribed to HRTV online so I will be watching this race live!! :)

[PaceAdvantage]

hey PA...this has to be great news for you:ThmbUp:It's good news, but nothing I didn't expect. If they didn't want her to race...if they wanted to never face Zenyatta, they would have retired Rachel a long time ago...

I will never understand the Rachel bashers, but that's ok, because I see some of the Zenyatta diehards on here can't understand where I am coming from either..

[ghostyapper]

It's good news, but nothing I didn't expect. If they didn't want her to race...if they wanted to never face Zenyatta, they would have retired Rachel a long time ago...


Considering it was not revealed that Zenyatta would race this year until well after Jackson announced that Rachel would run as a 4yo how can you come to a conclusion like that?

[PaceAdvantage]

Considering it was not revealed that Zenyatta would race this year until well after Jackson announced that Rachel would run as a 4yo how can you come to a conclusion like that?Because as we all know, a horse can be retired at any time, for a variety of real and imagined reasons.

They could have easily said she came out of her 2010 debut with some sort of injury and headed off into the sunset.

But you don't need me to explain this kind of stuff to you...this is horse management 101 to a smart lad like yourself.

[ghostyapper]

They could have easily said she came out of her 2010 debut with some sort of injury and headed off into the sunset.


And how would that have played with the general public (not the rachel drones who eat up everything he says anyway)?

They would have seen right through that and chalked it up to another one of those "convenient injuries" that we've seen so often recently. Cough Empire Maker, Smarty Jones

[PaceAdvantage]

And how would that have played with the general public (not the rachel drones who eat up everything he says anyway)?

They would have seen right through that and chalked it up to another one of those "convenient injuries" that we've seen so often recently. Cough Empire Maker, Smarty JonesI'm not sure what this has to do with anything. In fact, I'm not quite sure why you questioned my latest post to begin with, other than the fact it was me writing and the subject was Rachel.

It's basic common sense that if they didn't feel they could beat Zenyatta and that they are chicken to run against her, what else is there to keep running for?

Is Jackson hurting for cash?

[ghostyapper]

It's basic common sense that if they didn't feel they could beat Zenyatta and that they are chicken to run against her, what else is there to keep running for?


Right because in this day and age it's so hard for top horses to avoid each other with so few high purse races, especially 2 horses from different coasts.

It's good that she will finally run again but don't try and make this out to mean anything more.

Her first chance at zenyatta was april 9th and they passed. Her running in another race does not erase that.

[Tom]

Is the other "Z" going to be in that race?

[PaceAdvantage]

Right because in this day and age it's so hard for top horses to avoid each other with so few high purse races, especially 2 horses from different coasts.

It's good that she will finally run again but don't try and make this out to mean anything more.

Her first chance at zenyatta was april 9th and they passed. Her running in another race does not erase that.So you are saying Jackson is hurting for cash? That's what it sounds like...

What would be your reason for them to continue running her if their intention is to avoid ever running against Zenyatta?

Rachel running the entire year and NOT facing Zenyatta is an impossibility in my book.

[DRIVEWAY]

Jackson seems to be slow and cautious making up his mind. Then he appears quick to change his mind.

Anythings possible with him. I don't think he knows what he's going to do with this horse. This next race could be Rachel's final victory lap. I wouldn't be surprised.

The two keys for Rachel are a pairing with Curlin in August and her winning the Woodward to give Jackson three victories and the honor of retiring the Woodward Cup/Trophy to his mantle.

The goal of running against Zenyatta or competing in the Breeders Cup is unclear to me.

Jackson is unlikely to put out a tentative schedule for Rachel. So each and every event will happen when the mood strikes him.

If Rachel and Zenyatta meet that would be exciting but Jackson hasn't made that decision yet.

[BluegrassProf]

I don't think he knows what he's going to do with this horse. This next race could be Rachel's final victory lap. I wouldn't be surprised.And there it is! :)

Given precedent, I expect numerous variations of this comment to be posted through the rest of the year. At least it's consistent! :ThmbUp:

[Kimsus]

I expect Careless Jewel to be more than a handful for Zardana in the La Troienne. I hope she goes off as the distant 3rd choice as I am sure there will be doubts on her fitness level, BC flop and what she beat last year but they better not take her lightly. She's the real deal.

[Spalding No!]

She's the real deal.

Given all the negatives in her form you mentioned, can you elaborate on this?

[Kimsus]

Given all the negatives in her form you mentioned, can you elaborate on this?

What's there to elaborate, if Josie Caroll enters her as she is expected to that's all you need to know...and if she is the horse she was last yr prior to the BC fiasco, that means she is already better than what Zardana is. The only negative and I mean the only negative is she is going into this race without a prep, and that is a disadvantage to a field that some of the contenders that have recent races already under their belts.

[Spalding No!]

What's there to elaborate, if Josie Caroll enters her as she is expected to that's all you need to know...and if she is the horse she was last yr prior to the BC fiasco, that means she is already better than what Zardana is. The only negative and I mean the only negative is she is going into this race without a prep, and that is a disadvantage to a field that some of the contenders that have recent races already under their belts.

Well, you mentioned that the fields she beat up on last summer were less than stellar, and those same questions were also put forth prior to her run in the Ladies Classic.

Certainly her BC run did not answer those questions (hopefully).

[Zenyatta To Crush]

Lets just hope that Rachel can win this race with dominating fashion. Then there is at least a chance we get to see our Zenyatta-Rachel matchup at Churchill in the Stephen Foster. Jackson would rather face Zenyatta at 1-1/8 or shorter and on Rachel's preferred surface which is Churchill. Thats just too bad that Quality Road will be running in the Met Mile. I guess we'll probably have to wait until the Classic to throw him in the mix.

[Spalding No!]

Lets just hope that Rachel can win this race with dominating fashion. Then there is at least a chance we get to see our Zenyatta-Rachel matchup at Churchill in the Stephen Foster. Jackson would rather face Zenyatta at 1-1/8 or shorter and on Rachel's preferred surface which is Churchill. Thats just too bad that Quality Road will be running in the Met Mile. I guess we'll probably have to wait until the Classic to throw him in the mix.

What are the chances Zenyatta runs in the Stephen Foster?

I wouldn't be surprised if she gets an appearance fee for running in the Vanity.

[thaskalos]

It's good news, but nothing I didn't expect. If they didn't want her to race...if they wanted to never face Zenyatta, they would have retired Rachel a long time ago...

I will never understand the Rachel bashers, but that's ok, because I see some of the Zenyatta diehards on here can't understand where I am coming from either.. Are all the Zenyatta fans considered to be "Rachel bashers" by you? I don't recall any real Rachel bashing going on, unless you mean the opinion that Rachel cannot beat Zenyatta unless she improves...which opinion, by the way, happens to be shared by some of the finest trainers in the country. In fact, I can't recall any trainer stating that Rachel could beat Zenyatta as things stand right now.

You, on the other hand, stated not long ago that Rachel could beat Zenyatta without having to improve from her current condition. Doesn't that qualify to be called Zenyatta bashing?

[toussaud]

What are the chances Zenyatta runs in the Stephen Foster?

I wouldn't be surprised if she gets an appearance fee for running in the Vanity.
if rachel runs like she is capable of running I am willing to bet a lot of money it goes down. the public wants it, both camps really want it.. i don't think they are dogging each other, they aren't going to go into a prize fight with a half horse.

[WinterTriangle]

I will never understand the Rachel bashers, but that's ok, because I see some of the Zenyatta diehards on here can't understand where I am coming from either..

Being a fan of both is not mutually exclusive. :)

[Kimsus]

Well, you mentioned that the fields she beat up on last summer were less than stellar, and those same questions were also put forth prior to her run in the Ladies Classic.

Certainly her BC run did not answer those questions (hopefully).

There are questions about Rachel's and Zenyatta's competition, all we know is she got a rough ride by Landry in the Alabama yet she drew off to win by a wide margin, you can knock the horses in the field but you can't come away from that race saying this is an average horse that took advantage of a mediocre field. If anyone didn't see this as a breakthrough race, they are looking at the glass half empty analogy.

[Zenyatta To Crush]

What are the chances Zenyatta runs in the Stephen Foster?

I wouldn't be surprised if she gets an appearance fee for running in the Vanity.
I wouldn't run Zenyatta in the Vanity. The 2 races where she seemed to be struggling a bit mid stretch were both Vanity races. I'm not saying she'd get beat there but I think it makes more sense for them to run in the Foster, maybe one in NY and one in Cali, then back to Churchill for the Classic. I don't think they want to deal with the assigned weights at Hollywood.

[Tom]

Being a fan of both is not mutually exclusive. :)

Don't say that! You'll get your car "keyed" twice! :eek: :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Are all the Zenyatta fans considered to be "Rachel bashers" by you?No. Silly question.I don't recall any real Rachel bashing going onThere's not enough time in the day...as a starter though, simply do a search on any Rachel posts by our good friend, ghostyapper.In fact, I can't recall any trainer stating that Rachel could beat Zenyatta as things stand right now.Good evidence as to why these same trainers make their living by training, not handicapping.You, on the other hand, stated not long ago that Rachel could beat Zenyatta without having to improve from her current condition. Doesn't that qualify to be called Zenyatta bashing?How is that Zenyatta bashing? And I don't recall saying Rachel could beat Zenyatta without having to improve from her CURRENT CONDITION (meaning her 2010 debut). I do recall saying that Rachel's best 3yo form would be good enough to beat Zenyatta. I do recall saying I had hoped that Rachel would improve a bit at 4yo, but that her 3yo form is good enough to beat Zenyatta.

No, I don't think Rachel's 2010 debut would be good enough to beat Zenyatta. But then again, I wouldn't rule it out like those aforementioned trainers have evidently done...I think it was a better race than many give credit for...

[Hanover1]

At this stage of the game 1 mare is showing consistency, and the other, due to a variety of excuses, both conjured and real, is expected to reach a peak of previous performance. Based on my many years of experience (and I am a RA fan as well), as a horseman, Zen will prevail in the history books as a phenomenon unlike few have seen, whereas, RA was/is a brilliant, yet precocious entity thal lacks/lacked longevity. If she returns as before has yet to bee seen, and my money sez it don't look good. Perhaps a victory or two at best, but events leading up to today suggest that continuity as shown by Zen cannot be achieved by her rivals. A deep closer that stays sound is much easier to keep in the game as opposed to a headstrong type such as RA, and that is just how horses are, and noone on this forum that has anything close to my experiences can dispute this. Her biololgical clock may be telling her its time to take it easy, and that is how mares operate, unless you find the game an easy one by having to work a quick last quarter with a tremendous stride, easily to win, like Zen. If I get ANY flak on this one from anybody, it shows just how much experience you actually have training these animals.

[Spalding No!]

At this stage of the game 1 mare is showing consistency, and the other, due to a variety of excuses, both conjured and real, is expected to reach a peak of previous performance. Based on my many years of experience (and I am a RA fan as well), as a horseman, Zen will prevail in the history books as a phenomenon unlike few have seen, whereas, RA was/is a brilliant, yet precocious entity thal lacks/lacked longevity. If she returns as before has yet to bee seen, and my money sez it don't look good. Perhaps a victory or two at best, but events leading up to today suggest that continuity as shown by Zen cannot be achieved by her rivals. A deep closer that stays sound is much easier to keep in the game as opposed to a headstrong type such as RA, and that is just how horses are, and noone on this forum that has anything close to my experiences can dispute this. Her biololgical clock may be telling her its time to take it easy, and that is how mares operate, unless you find the game an easy one by having to work a quick last quarter with a tremendous stride, easily to win, like Zen. If I get ANY flak on this one from anybody, it shows just how much experience you actually have training these animals.

Wow. Talk about drawing a line in the sand.

I agree. The steady closer trumps the free-running speed type. Always. A good generalization, if not revelation, for sure. Not sure the reason is that the speed horse's biological clock ticks harder and faster, though.

But many of us are well aware of the first part.

Myself? I gleaned it from a Looney Toons cartoon featuring a tortoise and a hare.

Nonetheless, in deference to your experience and domineering attitude, I will henceforth read all your posts in the voice of a Mel Blanc character of my choosing.

Based on the grammar of the above post, I choose Elmer Fudd in this instance.

Th-th-th-that's all folks!

[ghostyapper]

There's not enough time in the day...as a starter though, simply do a search on any Rachel posts by our good friend, ghostyapper.

If you're gonna categorize people will you at least admit to being a zenyatta basher or let me guess you're completely objective when it comes to discussing the undefeated mare?

[ghostyapper]

One interesting tidbit here. This thread has now reached it's 3rd page and there has not been 1 outcry on why Rachel is not running against males. Check out the zenyatta vanity thread to see the lofty campaign goals that so many people have for zenyatta but for rachel?

Now I know to the general public one mare might seem at the top of her game while the other has some question marks so running against females here seems certainly logical.

But according to the clan rachel ran just as well (maybe even better) in her only race this year as zenyatta did in the santa margarita. And the apple blossom was just an afternoon "paid workout" which was also slower and not as impressive as those bullets rachel has been running in the morning.

Why is there outrage for one horse running against females and the other gets a pass?

[FenceBored]

One interesting tidbit here. This thread has now reached it's 3rd page and there has not been 1 outcry on why Rachel is not running against males. Check out the zenyatta vanity thread to see the lofty campaign goals that so many people have for zenyatta but for rachel?

Now I know to the general public one mare might seem at the top of her game while the other has some question marks so running against females here seems certainly logical.

But according to the clan rachel ran just as well (maybe even better) in her only race this year as zenyatta did in the santa margarita. And the apple blossom was just an afternoon "paid workout" which was also slower and not as impressive as those bullets rachel has been running in the morning.

Why is there outrage for one horse running against females and the other gets a pass?

Because she has nothing left to prove having beaten males multiple times?

[the little guy]

At this stage of the game 1 mare is showing consistency, and the other, due to a variety of excuses, both conjured and real, is expected to reach a peak of previous performance. Based on my many years of experience (and I am a RA fan as well), as a horseman, Zen will prevail in the history books as a phenomenon unlike few have seen, whereas, RA was/is a brilliant, yet precocious entity thal lacks/lacked longevity. If she returns as before has yet to bee seen, and my money sez it don't look good. Perhaps a victory or two at best, but events leading up to today suggest that continuity as shown by Zen cannot be achieved by her rivals. A deep closer that stays sound is much easier to keep in the game as opposed to a headstrong type such as RA, and that is just how horses are, and noone on this forum that has anything close to my experiences can dispute this. Her biololgical clock may be telling her its time to take it easy, and that is how mares operate, unless you find the game an easy one by having to work a quick last quarter with a tremendous stride, easily to win, like Zen. If I get ANY flak on this one from anybody, it shows just how much experience you actually have training these animals.


If there was any justice, the split second you hit " submit reply " on this post a giant pie would have flown out of your computer screen and slammed you in the face.

[joanied]

I love Zenyatta...no, I love Rachel...no, I love Zenyatta...nope, Rachel, no...Zenyatta :bang:
I beleive we can love and admire both...and, IMO, bashing either is just silly...these two have given us something great...so to find fault with either of them is not allowed:D

[Cardus]

At this stage of the game 1 mare is showing consistency, and the other, due to a variety of excuses, both conjured and real, is expected to reach a peak of previous performance. Based on my many years of experience (and I am a RA fan as well), as a horseman, Zen will prevail in the history books as a phenomenon unlike few have seen, whereas, RA was/is a brilliant, yet precocious entity thal lacks/lacked longevity. If she returns as before has yet to bee seen, and my money sez it don't look good. Perhaps a victory or two at best, but events leading up to today suggest that continuity as shown by Zen cannot be achieved by her rivals. A deep closer that stays sound is much easier to keep in the game as opposed to a headstrong type such as RA, and that is just how horses are, and noone on this forum that has anything close to my experiences can dispute this. Her biololgical clock may be telling her its time to take it easy, and that is how mares operate, unless you find the game an easy one by having to work a quick last quarter with a tremendous stride, easily to win, like Zen. If I get ANY flak on this one from anybody, it shows just how much experience you actually have training these animals.

No, this shortsighted thinking will occur in the Loony Tunes world of Internet Land.

[johnhannibalsmith]

If there was any justice, the split second you hit " submit reply " on this post a giant pie would have flown out of your computer screen and slammed you in the face.

Don't disagree with a trainer. Trainers agree on almost nothing, but they are always correct.

[Hanover1]

No, this shortsighted thinking will occur in the Loony Tunes world of Internet Land.
Considering that she is already in the books, you are shortsighted indeed...

[the little guy]

Don't disagree with a trainer. Trainers agree on almost nothing, but they are always correct.

As a great trainer once told me, " don't ever make the mistake of thinking I'm very smart. "

[Hanover1]

Don't disagree with a trainer. Trainers agree on almost nothing, but they are always correct.
I agree....

[Hanover1]

As a great trainer once told me, " don't ever make the mistake of thinking I'm very smart. "
Horses make fools out of all of us, and thanks to that fact it is a well funded sport ;)

[Hanover1]

If there was any justice, the split second you hit " submit reply " on this post a giant pie would have flown out of your computer screen and slammed you in the face.
Explain your theory on justice a little more clearly please......

[Cardus]

Considering that she is already in the books, you are shortsighted indeed...

I like your use of "prevail."

This is some sort of crusade, isn't it?

You're far from alone in this crusade, mind you.

[Hanover1]

Wow. Talk about drawing a line in the sand.

I agree. The steady closer trumps the free-running speed type. Always. A good generalization, if not revelation, for sure. Not sure the reason is that the speed horse's biological clock ticks harder and faster, though.

But many of us are well aware of the first part.

Myself? I gleaned it from a Looney Toons cartoon featuring a tortoise and a hare.

Nonetheless, in deference to your experience and domineering attitude, I will henceforth read all your posts in the voice of a Mel Blanc character of my choosing.

Based on the grammar of the above post, I choose Elmer Fudd in this instance.

Th-th-th-that's all folks!
Mr Blanc: Stick to cartoons, as horses are not your forte. Perhaps teaching grammer school to children might render some therapy......

[Hanover1]

I like your use of "prevail."

This is some sort of crusade, isn't it?

You're far from alone in this crusade, mind you.
No crusade here-that is/was your label. Just my slant on the constant comparisons and banter back and forth. I would trade crusade for perspective.

[gm10]

Man I wish that Moss would announce that they're sending Zenyatta to CD as well. Rachel Alexandra is HOY - so why does JJ keep ducking Zenyatta? Why not schedule a trip to Hollywood?

[Dahoss9698]

Man I wish that Moss would announce that they're sending Zenyatta to CD as well. Rachel Alexandra is HOY - so why does JJ keep ducking Zenyatta? Why not schedule a trip to Hollywood?

You seem more confused than usual today, so let me help you out. Rachel is the HOY. She doesn't need to seek anyone out. Hollywood Park has a synthetic surface. They don't want to run her on a synthetic surface.

This is really basic stuff man, come on.

[BluegrassProf]

If there was any justice, the split second you hit " submit reply " on this post a giant pie would have flown out of your computer screen and slammed you in the face. :D

Spectacular.

[WinterTriangle]

Rachel Alexandra is HOY

was. For 2009. We don't know who HOY "is or will be" for 2010.

[OntheRail]

Man I wish that Moss would announce that they're sending Zenyatta to CD as well. Rachel Alexandra is HOY - so why does JJ keep ducking Zenyatta? Why not schedule a trip to Hollywood?
Moss did announce that they are not sending Zenyatta East anytime soon. As it's to hard to ship her. :rolleyes: I read that as not at all. So she will run in the Vanity and then most likely be tired. As they want not part of May.. June G1 horse on dirt... and no I don't count the AB as nothing but a workout and a retort for not running against Rachel. Hey we went to the AB and she did not come... even though she was not pointed to it. But it give them something to hang their hat on. As for Jackson running in Cali that's not likely... cause the surface is fake and we all know how he feels about that. ;)

[tzipi]

If there was any justice, the split second you hit " submit reply " on this post a giant pie would have flown out of your computer screen and slammed you in the face.


That really got me laughing hard. Too funny. :D

[Dahoss9698]

Moss did announce that they are not sending Zenyatta East anytime soon. As it's to hard to ship her. :rolleyes: I read that as not at all. So she will run in the Vanity and then most likely be tired. As they want not part of May.. June G1 horse on dirt... and no I don't count the AB as nothing but a workout and a retort for not running against Rachel. Hey we went to the AB and she did not come... even though she was not pointed to it. But it give them something to hang their hat on. As for Jackson running in Cali that's not likely... cause the surface is fake and we all know how he feels about that. ;)

Shirreffs comments are so great.

"For us to ship, it's so much different," Shirreffs said. "We have to ship across the Rockies. It's so much different out here than going up and down the East Coast.

"Why put her on the plane to run in another handicap?" Shirreffs said.

[BluegrassProf]

"For us to ship, it's so much different," Shirreffs said. "We have to ship across the Rockies. It's so much different out here than going up and down the East Coast. :D

Spectacular-er.


Where's the automatic applause button when you need it, Dr. J?

[breezing]

that is probably one of the funniest things he's ever said, truly would have loved to have seen his face while saying it. :lol: I LOVE IT!

[Grits]

This particular quote of Ann Moss's keeps coming back to me time and again. The first time I read it, it appeared in an Associated Press story. This time, I've been able to locate it in Claire Novak's blog.

We've always looked at the Breeders' Cup as our focus, and the Breeders' Cup, just for what it's worth, was in LA for two years in a row," Moss said. "And that wasn't our choosing. Did it make it easier to run there and train there? Sure."

"Would we rather have run on dirt?" Ann Moss interjected. "Absolutely. Would we still rather run on dirt? Absolutely."

But we're forward-looking people," Moss said. "We show up and we try to run against whoever else shows up. That's all we've ever done and that's all we'll keep on doing - we think we've got a really tremendous horse here, without tooting our trumpet too hard. Whomever wants to chase her, we welcome. And everybody's formidable; anything can happen in a horse race."


This one quote, along with both Mr./Mrs. saying months ago, "we plan to travel with her much more this coming year. We love to travel."


. . . . . . For the life of me, I do not understand the desire of these owners to continue to keep Zenyatta on the West Coast facing the same horses, unless this is about concern that her challenges could be greater.

She is extraordinary to see in the flesh, there is no doubt. She's is flat out incredible!!! These remarks, though, don't ring true; particularly, not anything Ann Moss uttered. If the Moss's truly want everyone to be able to see Zenyatta, and take on "whoever shows up" including males or females that run on dirt, its pretty damn difficult to achieve this remaining in Southern California 90% of the year and walking her a football field's length from her stall to the paddock.

The Apple Blossom was a paid work out, as everyone witnessed and has stated since she crossed the wire.

The business about putting her on an airplane is crap, and Shirreffs needs to give it up. Three weeks ago she proved to him and everyone else that she's well capable of traveling.

[Cardus]

No crusade here-that is/was your label. Just my slant on the constant comparisons and banter back and forth. I would trade crusade for perspective.

Historical perspective is what people lack when they announce that Zenyatta is one of the greatest horses of all time.

[only11]

This particular quote of Ann Moss's keeps coming back to me time and again. The first time I read it, it appeared in an Associated Press story. This time, I've been able to locate it in Claire Novak's blog.

We've always looked at the Breeders' Cup as our focus, and the Breeders' Cup, just for what it's worth, was in LA for two years in a row," Moss said. "And that wasn't our choosing. Did it make it easier to run there and train there? Sure."

"Would we rather have run on dirt?" Ann Moss interjected. "Absolutely. Would we still rather run on dirt? Absolutely."

But we're forward-looking people," Moss said. "We show up and we try to run against whoever else shows up. That's all we've ever done and that's all we'll keep on doing - we think we've got a really tremendous horse here, without tooting our trumpet too hard. Whomever wants to chase her, we welcome. And everybody's formidable; anything can happen in a horse race."


This one quote, along with both Mr./Mrs. saying months ago, "we plan to travel with her much more this coming year. We love to travel."


. . . . . . For the life of me, I do not understand the desire of these owners to continue to keep Zenyatta on the West Coast facing the same horses, unless this is about concern that her challenges could be greater.

She is extraordinary to see in the flesh, there is no doubt. She's is flat out incredible!!! These remarks, though, don't ring true; particularly, not anything Ann Moss uttered. If the Moss's truly want everyone to be able to see Zenyatta, and take on "whoever shows up" including males or females that run on dirt, its pretty damn difficult to achieve this remaining in Southern California 90% of the year and walking her a football field's length from her stall to the paddock.

The Apple Blossom was a paid work out, as everyone witnessed and has stated since she crossed the wire.

The business about putting her on an airplane is crap, and Shirreffs needs to give it up. Three weeks ago she proved to him and everyone else that she's well capable of traveling.
Can you please also inform us some of Jackson 's qoutes on RA...

[Hedevar]

I don't think its any surprise that HRTV just confirmed that Zenyatta will go in the Vanity.

[Grits]

Can you please also inform us some of Jackson 's qoutes on RA...
No, but you can do it yourself. There's plenty here for viewing already. Try the search box; it works everytime.

I could be wrong, and I'm a great fan and admirer of both of these fine horses, but I don't think this quote by Mrs.Moss has been posted here, if that's ok.

And I'm sure you'll believe it is. ;)

[tzipi]

Shirreffs comments are so great.

"For us to ship, it's so much different," Shirreffs said. "We have to ship across the Rockies. It's so much different out here than going up and down the East Coast.

"Why put her on the plane to run in another handicap?" Shirreffs said.

I don't like when trainers say this kind of stuff today. Horses used to travel like crazy in the earlier days. Horses like Seabiscuit(1930's) and others traveled back and forth from the east and west coasts. Pretty sure travelling is alot easier and quicker today then it was then.

[Hanover1]

Historical perspective is what people lack when they announce that Zenyatta is one of the greatest horses of all time.
Once again, your crusade, not mine. I personaly don't care how either mare is seen historicly, but one will bee seen as greater than the other, and that is the issue you try and twist to suit your agenda. Can't you be happy liking both of them? Or do we feel the need on any given day to attack anyone who is not of your mindset, as many do in relation to this tired debate? Go handicap tomorrows cards, or something positive instead.

[only11]

No, but you can do it yourself. There's plenty here for viewing already. Try the search box; it works everytime.

I could be wrong, and I'm a great fan and admirer of both of these fine horses, but I don't think this quote by Mrs.Moss has been posted here, if that's ok.

And I'm sure you'll believe it is. ;)
Grits all im saying if your going to throw moss/sheriffs under the bus then you better do the same for THE JACKSON camp

[johnhannibalsmith]

Grits all im saying if your going to throw moss/sheriffs under the bus then you better do the same for THE JACKSON camp

Yes, redundancy ad nauseum is certainly an important requirement for all discussions of these two.

[Dahoss9698]

Grits all im saying if your going to throw moss/sheriffs under the bus then you better do the same for THE JACKSON camp

But her post had nothing to do with Rachel Alexandra, Jess Jackson or Steve Asmussen.

She wasn't throwing anyone under the bus. She brought up quotes and gave her opinion on them. If you want to do the same thing with quotes from Jess Jackson go for it.

You have to admit, the line about crossing the Rockies was pretty embarrassing.

[BluegrassProf]

I don't like when trainers say this kind of stuff today. Horses used to travel like crazy in the earlier days. Horses like Seabiscuit(1930's) and others traveled back and forth from the east and west coasts. Pretty sure travelling is alot easier and quicker today then it was then.You, sir, know nothing.

It's just sooooo different, man, soooo different. I know, I know, there's only a couple of hours difference in flight times between CA/KY and, say, NY/KY, but we're talking about mountains here.

MOUNTAINS.

Such a thing is simply out of the question, I assume you'll agree.



...unless you're another horse.

*headdesk*

Yet again, super-duper insulting for every fan who (rightfully) expected affirmation of her reputation. C'mon, Johhny; you've used up all the good cards bluffing. Zen fans, Rachel fans, all thinking it's time to start playing the game. :ThmbUp:

[only11]

But her post had nothing to do with Rachel Alexandra, Jess Jackson or Steve Asmussen.

She wasn't throwing anyone under the bus. She brought up quotes and gave her opinion on them. If you want to do the same thing with quotes from Jess Jackson go for it.

You have to admit, the line about crossing the Rockies was pretty embarrassing.
I agree the line about crossing the Rockies is quite embarrassing..my point was you could find a whole lot of BS from jackson's camp as well..i agree with what was posted...

[Grits]

I agree the line about crossing the Rockies is quite embarrassing..my point was you could find a whole lot of BS from jackson's camp as well..i agree with what was posted...

Its cool, Only. We can all be grateful these two girls haven't come up lame as their owners have, time and time again. Trainers, too. There's plenty of bull to go around.

Glad they both have a race on the horizon, and hope all goes well for each.

[Cardus]

Once again, your crusade, not mine. I personaly don't care how either mare is seen historicly, but one will bee seen as greater than the other, and that is the issue you try and twist to suit your agenda. Can't you be happy liking both of them? Or do we feel the need on any given day to attack anyone who is not of your mindset, as many do in relation to this tired debate? Go handicap tomorrows cards, or something positive instead.

I do not have a crusade here; I've remained mostly on the sidelines of the "Great Debate" regarding Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra. It has struck me as a crusade by many Zenyatta fans. I might, in fact, believe that Zenyatta is better than Rachel Alexandra, but I haven't resorted to what at times becomes lunacy in advocating one over the other.

I have never expressed an indication of liking one horse instead of the other.

"Attack" is used at the drop of a hat here. It's an exchange of ideas.

The go do "something positive instead" angle is lame.

Can't take the flak?

[Spalding No!]

Mr Blanc: Stick to cartoons, as horses are not your forte. Perhaps teaching grammer school to children might render some therapy......

Going with the condescending rooster Foghorn Leghorn on this one.

[keithw84]

Does anyone know which race it is on the card?

I am traveling to Cincy for the weekend, and I might just head to the 'ville if I'll be able to see RA run

[FenceBored]

Does anyone know which race it is on the card?

I am traveling to Cincy for the weekend, and I might just head to the 'ville if I'll be able to see RA run

Odds are it will be the 7th (off at 2:10pm EDT last year).

[Hanover1]

I do not have a crusade here; I've remained mostly on the sidelines of the "Great Debate" regarding Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra. It has struck me as a crusade by many Zenyatta fans. I might, in fact, believe that Zenyatta is better than Rachel Alexandra, but I haven't resorted to what at times becomes lunacy in advocating one over the other.

I have never expressed an indication of liking one horse instead of the other.

"Attack" is used at the drop of a hat here. It's an exchange of ideas.

The go do "something positive instead" angle is lame.

Can't take the flak?
Flak for what? An exchange of ideas? :D

[gm10]

You seem more confused than usual today, so let me help you out. Rachel is the HOY. She doesn't need to seek anyone out. Hollywood Park has a synthetic surface. They don't want to run her on a synthetic surface.

This is really basic stuff man, come on.

She's dodged her on the Pro-Ride. She's dodged her on the dirt. Now she's dodging her on the polytrack. You can run but you cannot hide forever.

[gm10]

Moss did announce that they are not sending Zenyatta East anytime soon. As it's to hard to ship her. :rolleyes: I read that as not at all. So she will run in the Vanity and then most likely be tired. As they want not part of May.. June G1 horse on dirt... and no I don't count the AB as nothing but a workout and a retort for not running against Rachel. Hey we went to the AB and she did not come... even though she was not pointed to it. But it give them something to hang their hat on. As for Jackson running in Cali that's not likely... cause the surface is fake and we all know how he feels about that. ;)

Curlin was simply going out of form and met with two sharp, improving 3yo's. The 2007 BC Curlin would have put them away on any surface.

[cj]

Curlin was simply going out of form and met with two sharp, improving 3yo's. The 2007 BC Curlin would have put them away on any surface.

There is ZERO evidence Curlin had the same ability on synthetics or turf as he did on dirt.

[Kimsus]

There is ZERO evidence Curlin had the same ability on synthetics or turf as he did on dirt.

I thought Curlin showed no ill effects from running on synthetics, not withstanding Albarado's probable too early move in the race. I just think he ran to his prior 2 races before the classic and was ripe for the upset(though I wasn't surprised), the surface was a convenient excuse for the lost IMO. His beyer was in line to how he was running at that stage of his career.

[ZephyrHawk]

Can I just say SQUEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been hoping one of the big girls would show in this race ever since I bought my Oaks ticket!

[Dahoss9698]

She's dodged her on the Pro-Ride. She's dodged her on the dirt. Now she's dodging her on the polytrack. You can run but you cannot hide forever.

She was never in contention for the BC, so there was no dodge. She wasn't ready physically for the Apple Blossom, they declared out a good month from the race. Hollywood isn't polytrack either.

But to say she is dodging Zenyatta by not running at Hollywood has set a new mark for clueless. Maybe they don't want to cross the Rockies. As we have learned, it's a grueling trip.

[born2ride]

Looks like Careless Jewel is out... :-(

"The La Troienne lost one of its expected starters Sunday when grade I winner Careless Jewel was removed from consideration by trainer Josie Carroll because of injury. Probables as of Monday, according to the Churchill Downs racing office, are Be Fair, Distinctive Dixie, Morena, Rachel Alexandra, Unrivalled Belle, and Zardana. Entries for the La Troienne will be drawn Tuesday."

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/56673/rachel-works-4f-for-la-troienne

[johnhannibalsmith]

Looks like Careless Jewel is out... :-(

"The La Troienne lost one of its expected starters Sunday when grade I winner Careless Jewel was removed from consideration by trainer Josie Carroll because of injury. Probables as of Monday, according to the Churchill Downs racing office, are Be Fair, Distinctive Dixie, Morena, Rachel Alexandra, Unrivalled Belle, and Zardana. Entries for the La Troienne will be drawn Tuesday."

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/56673/rachel-works-4f-for-la-troienne

Well clearly Jess Jackson pulled a Tonya Harding/JT Lundy maneuver because he was mortified at running against Careless Jewel. Who's with me?

:p

[Spalding No!]

So Zardana is actually still pointing for the race. Great stuff. Given Shireffs comments about shipping twice over the Rockies, I assumed he was keeping her at home, too, after shipping her to New Orleans for her last start.

This blatant hypocrisy only validates (as if it needed it) the assertion that his shipping concerns for Zenyatta are BS.

What's the point of treating the public like idiots? Why didn't he just say, "we want to get that 17 win in a row, and the Vanity is the softer spot" or "we've been paid off by Hollywood Park to run her on Bobblehead Day" or "we think Zardana is capable of beating Rachel Alexandra again, so why bother running the big mare" or "we don't want her to have any tough races this year until the BC".

[Spalding No!]

Well clearly Jess Jackson pulled a Tonya Harding/JT Lundy maneuver because he was mortified at running against Careless Jewel. Who's with me?

:p

What is the JT Lundy reference?

Do you think Jess Jackson set up Careless Jewel to get injured or something?

[johnhannibalsmith]

What is the JT Lundy reference?

Do you think Jess Jackson set up Careless Jewel to get injured or something?

I used the wrong emoticon to denote sarcasm, I guess.

I've heard nearly every conspiracy thus far in this saga, this just seemed like the logical next insinuation from someone looking to toss doo-doo at the wall.

[Spalding No!]

I used the wrong emoticon to denote sarcasm, I guess.

I've heard nearly every conspiracy thus far in this saga, this just seemed like the logical next insinuation from someone looking to toss doo-doo at the wall.

No, I botched it. For some reason, the Tonya Harding portion didn't register. It should have been clear as day.

I had it in my head that you were insinuating that Jackson waited to commit to the race only after he knew Careless Jewel was out, and I wasn't sure how JT Lundy fit into that situation.

[johnhannibalsmith]

No, I botched it. For some reason, the Tonya Harding portion didn't register. It should have been clear as day.

I had it in my head that you were insinuating that Jackson waited to commit to the race only after he knew Careless Jewel was out, and I wasn't sure how JT Lundy fit into that situation.

JT Lundy really wasn't a good reference to begin with in that context... but I was afraid that a Tonya Harding reference alone would cause a Google overload from racing fans trying to remember where they know that name from... I missed the mark by a mile with commentary that wasn't particularly comical or topical - just jaded frustration with the volume of lines having been drawn in the sand on the subject.

:blush:

[Kimsus]

Well clearly Jess Jackson pulled a Tonya Harding/JT Lundy maneuver because he was mortified at running against Careless Jewel. Who's with me?

:p

I'm not 100% sure of the timeline, but it is suspicious. You don't have to be Andy Beyer to know that Careless Jewel would have been a thorn in her side as pace presence and quite possibly more to see this one coming, obcourse he could have waited for Zenyatta to retire or a field of Bullsbay's and Macho Again's to assemble again. ;)

[Grits]

No, I botched it. For some reason, the Tonya Harding portion didn't register. It should have been clear as day.

I had it in my head that you were insinuating that Jackson waited to commit to the race only after he knew Careless Jewel was out, and I wasn't sure how JT Lundy fit into that situation.

C'mon Spaulding, get your head in gear, bud. You remember JT . . . . dude took out Alydar, or had it done!! Know you remember him.

Johnhannibal, you did alright, it wasn't a bad reference, you could be on to something here. If for no reason other than entertainment sake.

It would be nice, though, if Josie C. had elaborated on Careless Jewel's "injury." Simply stating one is pretty vague.

[Tom]

What's the point of treating the public like idiots?

I don't think it is so much treating the public like idiots as it is the public acting like idiots. :rolleyes: Just read a few threads here.

Everyone could save a lot of angst if they just check the entries every Friday and see who shows up. Playing trainer and owner all week long accomplishes nothing.

[Spalding No!]

C'mon Spaulding, get your head in gear, bud. You remember JT . . . . dude took out Alydar, or had it done!! Know you remember him.

I understood JT Lundy's place in history, I just didn't understand at first how that related to Jackson entering Rachel Alexandra in the La Troienne. My favorite part of "A Wild Ride" was when he pissed on the Calumet matriarch's grave following her funeral.

Anyways, at least you spelled Spaulding properly. It always irks me that I signed up for this board with a misspelled screenname.

[Kimsus]

C'mon Spaulding, get your head in gear, bud. You remember JT . . . . dude took out Alydar, or had it done!! Know you remember him.

Johnhannibal, you did alright, it wasn't a bad reference, you could be on to something here. If for no reason other than entertainment sake.

It would be nice, though, if Josie C. had elaborated on Careless Jewel's "injury." Simply stating one is pretty vague.

She was adamant of running in the La Troienne with or without Rachel, if this is indeed a serious injury it is a major loss to the distaff division. Hopefully it is something small and she will only be out for a short time.

I'm just interested when Jess Jackson knew this was a certainty, before or after he entered Rachel.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
I'm just interested when Jess Jackson knew this was a certainty, before or after he entered Rachel.

Well okay, I was only a few a kilometers off the mark and not a mile... :D

[Kimsus]

I'm not 100% sure of the timeline, but it is suspicious. You don't have to be Andy Beyer to know that Careless Jewel would have been a thorn in her side as pace presence and quite possibly more to see this one coming, obcourse he could have waited for Zenyatta to retire or a field of Bullsbay's and Macho Again's to assemble again. ;)

BTW I don't buy the Tonya Harding analogy, which is just silly if you ask me.

[Spalding No!]

Playing trainer and owner all week long accomplishes nothing.

That's what keeps these message boards running.

Isn't the whole point of following and betting on racing centered around trying to predict the future?

[Cardus]

I don't think it is so much treating the public like idiots as it is the public acting like idiots. :rolleyes: Just read a few threads here.

Everyone could save a lot of angst if they just check the entries every Friday and see who shows up. Playing trainer and owner all week long accomplishes nothing.

I disagree. Public figures from all areas of life now are conditioned to speak like Sheriffs and the Mosses have addressed the media in the last week. This goes for Jess Jackson, too.

Politicians (there is hardly an exception here), athletes (particularly some of those testing positive for PEDs and Tiger Woods is the most recent best example) and Hollywood-types have an aversion simply to tell the truth or to explain what they are thinking.

This is horseracing. It's not life and death here. Sheriffs and the Mosses want her to have the easiest road to 17-in-a-row? Fine. They want to stay on synthetics until the Breeders' Cup? That's fine, too. Whatever their reasoning, don't tell us about the Rockies. That's insulting.

All of this goes for Jackson and Asmussen, too.

Don't take chances, don't admit that you're wrong... I don't know if the media generally has made public figures become more defensive or evasive, or if a "public relations firm" mentality has gripped public figures in all walks of life. Either way, it insults the intelligence.

That's an awful lot of typing, isn't it?

[senortout]

One must infer(from the list of probables now), that JJ and SA ain't afraid of Zardana.......

A most interesting race ensues, even in the absence of the Big Mare.

senortout

who now agrees with some here, something's afoot!

[joanied]

This time, Rachel beats Zardana...it's actually a two horse race now with Careless Jewel out...that news really bummed me out...it seems kinda coincidental that CJ got an injury right at this time, but I guess like Esky...just bad timing.
I do hope CJ's injury isn't serious...if they retire her, it's gonna take some of the shine off the distaff division.

[BluegrassProf]

I'm not 100% sure of the timeline, but it is suspicious. You don't have to be Andy Beyer to know that Careless Jewel would have been a thorn in her side as pace presence and quite possibly more to see this one coming, obcourse he could have waited for Zenyatta to retire or a field of Bullsbay's and Macho Again's to assemble again. ;)Ye gods, Kimmy...like irony-powered clockwork! :D

Lord knows you'd have a field day playing the anti-conspiracist if the tables were turned.

How funny this whole story is. Daily. ;)

[Cratos]

This time, Rachel beats Zardana...it's actually a two horse race now with Careless Jewel out...that news really bummed me out...it seems kinda coincidental that CJ got an injury right at this time, but I guess like Esky...just bad timing.
I do hope CJ's injury isn't serious...if they retire her, it's gonna take some of the shine off the distaff division.

I agree, Rachel Alexandra will win the La troinne easily and I am not one who is coming to this party late. I made the same statement after Rachel’s loss earlier this year when I said on the forum that in her next outing she would win for fun.

Incidentally, I am a big Zenyatta fan and if everything goes as planned we will be there to see Rachel.

[WinterTriangle]

Between what the Mosses do for horse rescue / retirement, and how much Zenyatta's *stuff* and appearances have contributed to that (I was researching it, quite a lot of fundraising), plus the racing delight we've all gotten, they have all given more back than most people will ever do over a lifetime.

They *owe* nothing to anyone.

GL to Rachel on Friday, I hope she enjoys her race, either way. I'm still annoyed she didn't get a real vacation, so she deserves to at least win this race.

[only11]

I agree, Rachel Alexandra will win the La troinne easily and I am not one who is coming to this party late. I made the same statement after Rachel’s loss earlier this year when I said on the forum that in her next outing she would win for fun.

Incidentally, I am a big Zenyatta fan and if everything goes as planned we will be there to see Rachel.
Just curious why wouldnt Zardana beat her again?

[Spalding No!]

Between what the Mosses do for horse rescue / retirement, and how much Zenyatta's *stuff* and appearances have contributed to that (I was researching it, quite a lot of fundraising), plus the racing delight we've all gotten, they have all given more back than most people will ever do over a lifetime.

They *owe* nothing to anyone.


A roundabout way of saying they get a free pass and don't have to be held accountable for any bullsh!t they sling at all us peons.

Also, I would disagree they don't owe "nothing" to anyone.

The old man used to peddle records by Captain and Tennille and Styx.

I'd say he owes a huge debt to society for those transgressions...

[the little guy]

A roundabout way of saying they get a free pass and don't have to be held accountable for any bullsh!t they sling at all us peons.

Also, I would disagree they don't owe "nothing" to anyone.

The old man used to peddle records by Captain and Tennille and Styx.

I'd say he owes a huge debt to society for those transgressions...


Not to mention Sting.

If Kiki Dee is somewhere on his resume as well then he really has some explaining to do.

[Cratos]

Just curious why wouldnt Zardana beat her again?

Take a look at the internal fractions (i.e., the pace) in her last race and ask yourself was that a typical Rachel pace. If you answered yes then you and me have not been watching the same racehorse. Also at 1 1/16 miles Rachel’s inherent speed should be devastating.

[parzy09]

Between what the Mosses do for horse rescue / retirement, and how much Zenyatta's *stuff* and appearances have contributed to that (I was researching it, quite a lot of fundraising), plus the racing delight we've all gotten, they have all given more back than most people will ever do over a lifetime.

They *owe* nothing to anyone.

GL to Rachel on Friday, I hope she enjoys her race, either way. I'm still annoyed she didn't get a real vacation, so she deserves to at least win this race.

The horse rescue stuff is huge but don't forget that there has also been a lot of fundraising in Rachel's name. After a $20,000 donation in her name last year Jackson donated a portion of her earnings to the Komen Foundation and then there was a $20,000 donation to the V Foundation for Cancer Research through an auction of some of her stuff. This isn't to mention the little items like shoes and halters that have been auctioned, I was at an event where one was donated for the Humane Society in Louisville and it raised $3800. I saw another being auctioned of Rachel's for a horse rescue around the time of her last race. I think I have the article somewhere but a fundraiser using Rache's stuff in Saratoga raised $15,000 or something like that for the retirement farm up there.

I don't have time to research it all and add it up and it is irrelevant I just wanted to point out that Zenyatta gets better PR but Rachel's connections have been generous also.

[born2ride]

She was adamant of running in the La Troienne with or without Rachel, if this is indeed a serious injury it is a major loss to the distaff division. Hopefully it is something small and she will only be out for a short time.

I'm just interested when Jess Jackson knew this was a certainty, before or after he entered Rachel.

For what it's worth...CJ pulled out with an injury today, one day after Jackson said they'd run Rachel in the LT.

[born2ride]

Just curious why wouldnt Zardana beat her again?

From Mike Welsch of the DRF (http://therail.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/a-closer-look-at-the-derby-crop/)
"Q.Over the last 10 years, what are the three most impressive workouts you have seen leading up to the Derby?

A.While Rachel Alexandra was not here for the Derby last year, her workout ahead of the Oaks was the most impressive. It sets the standard, and it’s the best I have seen in 10 years. She had a good energy level, and she kept going and going as strong as she did and as fast as she did. The Derby works I have seen here over the last week are not comparable to Rachel Alexandra’s work last year. Rachel’s second-to-last workout (last week) was a little closer to being reminiscent of her pre-Oaks workout last year. Her workout this morning was simply a maintenance work.

Rachel's recent works are almost where she was at pre-Oaks and she's now running in her usual style rather than being held back.... this is a whole different ballgame than the NOL. Zardana's going to have her hands full, Rachel is sitting on a big effort IMO.

[chickenhead]

well, that's disappointing. Not nearly as interesting a race with no CJ.

[GaryG]

I will be surprised if Rachel does not drown Zardana and who ever else shows up. Looked really good in that sloppy track half mile.

[BluegrassProf]

Just curious why wouldnt Zardana beat her again?Good gravy, man. Do you really need this explained?

:faint:

I'm certainly not one to subscribe to any certainties (particularly with Zenyatta and Rachel), but yikes. Your question sounds like an early entry in an Introduction to Horseracing book. I'm sure the "A" to your "Racing Q&A" will be posted ad nauseum, so my lips are zipped. ;)

[JustRalph]

Good gravy, man. Do you really need this explained?

:faint:

I'm certainly not one to subscribe to any certainties (particularly with Zenyatta and Rachel), but yikes. Your question sounds like an early entry in an Introduction to Horseracing book. I'm sure the "A" to your "Racing Q&A" will be posted ad nauseum, so my lips are zipped. ;)


"Good Gravy" ??? Did you really just write that? :lol: :lol:

Sounds like something Sherlocke Holmes would say. Great line......Love it.

[cpitt84]

Anyone going to watch the race? I want to but its in the early afternoon :(

[Kimsus]

For what it's worth...CJ pulled out with an injury today, one day after Jackson said they'd run Rachel in the LT.

Just 1 day, not 18 hours or even 12? I don't know if it matters much anyway, we all know there is something called backstretch chatter and the timing of both is far too coincidental to completely dismiss. Since I don't believe in stars aligning, this one smells.

[born2ride]

Just 1 day, not 18 hours or even 12? I don't know if it matters much anyway, we all know there is something called backstretch chatter and the timing of both is far too coincidental to completely dismiss. Since I don't believe in stars aligning, this one smells.

I had the dates wrong. Saturday afternoon was when it was announced Rachel would run and Sunday was when CJ was pulled due to injury. As for "too coincidental", I don't think so. The limb you're out on with this theory doesn't hold any weight.

[Hanover1]

Yet another conspiracy theory....round up the usual suspects. Pure junk imo. Hope RA catches an off track....do her head and that camp a world of good at this point.

[Kimsus]

I had the dates wrong. Saturday afternoon was when it was announced Rachel would run and Sunday was when CJ was pulled due to injury. As for "too coincidental", I don't think so. The limb you're out on with this theory doesn't hold any weight.

From what I understand, they were quoted as waiting to Monday's workout before declaring she was a go, regardless I don't think it's entirely impossible SA learned CJ was off as she was training at CD and then huddled with JJ and said this was a go given they liked the way she was working. One thing is a certainty we can agree on, without CJ in the race, it removes a large thorn in Rachel's side given they were due to do battle on the pace and quite possibly setting the race up for someone else.

[GaryG]

One thing is a certainty we can agree on, without CJ in the race, it removes a large thorn in Rachel's side given they were due to do battle on the pace and quite possibly setting the race up for someone else.Absolutely not....Rachel would have blown by the gray filly whenever she was ready. This is getting ridiculous.

[Kimsus]

Absolutely not....Rachel would have blown by the gray filly whenever she was ready. This is getting ridiculous.

I always get a kick when one of her backers believe she is invincible, BLOWN by Careless Jewel? You mean the horse that won this race by 10? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y37AdlIqsUg

You are I are in much disagreement, Careless Jewel when right would give any horse in the distaff division fits on dirt.

[breezing]

careless jewel has a quarter crack - hence the scratch http://www.drf.com/news/article/112485.html

[joanied]

Well, I guess if anyone thinks CJ's quarter crack is BS, all they need to do is look at her foot:) ...it IS strange that she came up with this at this point in time. I also doubt it was her defection that lead Asmussen to run Rachel in there.

[PaceAdvantage]

I love how some act like Rachel Alexandra is nothing but a glorified claimer. :lol:

[joanied]

Anyone going to watch the race? I want to but its in the early afternoon :(

Can't you record it?

[joanied]

I love how some act like Rachel Alexandra is nothing but a glorified claimer. :lol:

yeah...and they can watch this 'glorified claimer' run a hole through the wind on Friday...:lol:
Go, Rachel baby, go, go, go:jump: :jump: :jump:

[GaryG]

yeah...and they can watch this 'glorified claimer' run a hole through the wind on Friday...:lol:
Go, Rachel baby, go, go, go:jump: :jump: :jump:One of them has already tried to marginalize her La Troienne win because she was only entered when Jackson knew the mighty Careless Jewel had been declared out....:lol:

[bisket]

no careless jewel and rachel's in.......

[joanied]

One of them has already tried to marginalize her La Troienne win because she was only entered when Jackson knew the mighty Careless Jewel had been declared out....:lol:

hang on tight...probably will get worse :faint:

[joanied]

no careless jewel and rachel's in.......

bisket....dude...you are getting too cynical...woooowooooo:)

[born2ride]

One of them has already tried to marginalize her La Troienne win because she was only entered when Jackson knew the mighty Careless Jewel had been declared out....:lol:

This is completely false. She was entered long before CJ started having quarter crack issues.

[windoor]

Take a look at the internal fractions (i.e., the pace) in her last race and ask yourself was that a typical Rachel pace. If you answered yes then you and me have not been watching the same racehorse. Also at 1 1/16 miles Rachel’s inherent speed should be devastating.

I rarely look at stakes races to wager on, but if I were a pure speed handicapper I would take Zardana over Rachel Alexander at this distance.

It appears to me R/A is the stronger of the two and can carry her speed to 1 1/8 and more and would have an advantage at that distance.

Zardana consistently runs the 1 1/16 faster than R/A based on her last 10 starts and finished her last two at 30.2 for the last fraction. R/A ran this number but once in 11/08, carrying less weight than this race, and usually runs in the 31 range for this distance. Those were winning efforts so you might assume there was more in the tank if needed.

Didn’t show it her last start though. In fact she was just a tad off (running 1 1/16 in 143.4) of her usual speed for 1 1/16 of 143.2, 143.4, and a solid 143 flat in 08 at CD.

I’ll place a small wager on Zardana to win and play the 3 over the 4 and 5 in the exacta.

Regards,

Windoor

[born2ride]

I rarely look at stakes races to wager on, but if I were a pure speed handicapper I would take Zardana over Rachel Alexander at this distance.

It appears to me R/A is the stronger of the two and can carry her speed to 1 1/8 and more and would have an advantage at that distance.

Zardana consistently runs the 1 1/16 faster than R/A based on her last 10 starts and finished her last two at 30.2 for the last fraction. R/A ran this number but once in 11/08, carrying less weight than this race, and usually runs in the 31 range for this distance. Those were winning efforts so you might assume there was more in the tank if needed.

Didn’t show it her last start though. In fact she was just a tad off (running 1 1/16 in 143.4) of her usual speed for 1 1/16 of 143.2, 143.4, and a solid 143 flat in 08 at CD.

I’ll place a small wager on Zardana to win and play the 3 over the 4 and 5 in the exacta.

Regards,

Windoor

You're comparing a winning time on turf at CD to synthethics and dirt. Interesting. I sure hope you note that her lone win on dirt here in the US is her slowest time at 1 1/16. A time by the way that a newly 3yo Rachel has bested in two races. I wish you luck on your wager, and hope you don't bet the farm.

[Robert Goren]

Take a look at the internal fractions (i.e., the pace) in her last race and ask yourself was that a typical Rachel pace. If you answered yes then you and me have not been watching the same racehorse. Also at 1 1/16 miles Rachel’s inherent speed should be devastating. You are assuming that she is the same horse as she was last year. I don't know that is clear at this point. We should have better idea on friday night.

[bks]

Mike Welsch said:
Rachel's recent works are almost where she was at pre-Oaks and she's now running in her usual style rather than being held back.... this is a whole different ballgame than the NOL. Zardana's going to have her hands full, Rachel is sitting on a big effort IMO.

I should HOPE Zardana has her hands full. She's only Zardana, a mere G2 winner that would be about 100-1 against any reasonable cast of G1 males.

[PaceAdvantage]

I should HOPE Zardana has her hands full. She's only Zardana, a mere G2 winner that would be about 100-1 against any reasonable cast of G1 males.Not on this planet...

[bks]

The inflation of Zardana on this board is rivaled only by the diminishing of Zenyatta. Both are without merit.

[Kimsus]

This is completely false. She was entered long before CJ started having quarter crack issues.

What constitutes "a long time" in your mind? 24 hours? :bang: OMG!

[Kimsus]

I love how some act like Rachel Alexandra is nothing but a glorified claimer. :lol:

No she isn't, but reading Mike Welsh's quotes if she doesn't win by +10, I would be dissapointed given that her main competition came up with a quarter crack when Jess confirmed her entry last week.

[cj]

No she isn't, but reading Mike Welsh's quotes if she doesn't win by +10, I would be dissapointed given that her main competition came up with a quarter crack when Jess confirmed her entry last week.

I would think her main competition is the horse that beat her last race and is undefeated on dirt, as would any rational person.

[Kimsus]

I would think her main competition is the horse that beat her last race and is undefeated on dirt, as would any rational person.

I know that, however if would you ask me Careless Jewel is the more interesting opponent and a very interesting variable if she was good to go.

[born2ride]

What constitutes "a long time" in your mind? 24 hours? :bang: OMG!

Read your post c.a.r.e.f.u.l.l.y - you use the word "entered". So yep absolutely Rachel was entered long time - which is many many weeks if not a month ago or more. I believe "entries" closed April 7. So Rachel had to have been entered before then. So you're absolutely wrong. ;)

Maybe you meant that she wasn't committed to run in the race until recently?

[Kimsus]

Read your post c.a.r.e.f.u.l.l.y - you use the word "entered". So yep absolutely Rachel was entered long time - which is many many weeks if not a month ago or more. I believe "entries" closed April 7. So Rachel had to have been entered before then. So you're absolutely wrong. ;)

Maybe you meant that she wasn't committed to run in the race until recently?

Feeling good about her chances tomorrow?

[FenceBored]

Feeling good about her chances tomorrow?

Yes I am. Tomorrow (Thursday) I think she'll eat a nice breakfast, get a little exercise, hang out with her peeps on the shedrow and laugh at the media horde on the backside. Sounds like a good plan to me.

Why, what did you think was going to happen the day before she races on Friday?

[Cratos]

You are assuming that she is the same horse as she was last year. I don't know that is clear at this point. We should have better idea on friday night.

No I am not, but I assuming that she is a damn good racehorse and her last effort was not indicative of how good she is or can be. That is why I (a Zenyatta fan) would want to see both mares in the same race at a distance of 1 1/8 miles or farther.

[ghostyapper]

I would think her main competition is the horse that beat her last race and is undefeated on dirt, as would any rational person.

What? Mr. Speed Figure himself is suggesting that Zardana (a horse with 1 dirt performance of any kind of significance) is the better competition than a faster and classier (also undefeated on dirt) Careless Jewel? Forget the obvious challenge in running style that the latter presents to the great one. Just insane

Boy is it getting heavy around here. I can't wait to see how it is here on friday. They'll be painting it as the great one avenging her loss against the powerful southern hemisphere export in a spectacular international showdown. :lol:

[cj]

What? Mr. Speed Figure himself is suggesting that Zardana (a horse with 1 dirt performance of any kind of significance) is the better competition than a faster and classier (also undefeated on dirt) Careless Jewel? Forget the obvious challenge in running style that the latter presents to the great one. Just insane

Boy is it getting heavy around here. I can't wait to see how it is here on friday. They'll be painting it as the great one avenging her loss against the powerful southern hemisphere export in a spectacular international showdown. :lol:

I am suggesting Zardana is a horse that ran a quality race last month, while Careless Jewel last ran a figure notably better than Zardana's over eight months ago. Her Cotilion in October was about the same, but even that was nearly seven months ago.

[the little guy]

I am suggesting Zardana is a horse that ran a quality race last month, while Careless Jewel last ran a figure notably better than Zardana's over eight months ago. Her Cotilion in October was about the same, but even that was nearly seven months ago.


Do you get the feeling you wandered into the wrong class?

[PaceAdvantage]

The funny thing is ghostyapper thinks he's somehow different than those whom he accuses of being "just insane."