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View Full Version : Niatross vs Somebeachsomewhere..


only11
04-19-2010, 08:29 PM
I was watching some you tube videos of Niatross and Somebeachsomewhere...Tough call which horse was the better pacer...

IMO Niatross ran against better horses in his era...my vote

NIATROSS!!

sonnyp
04-19-2010, 08:47 PM
niatross was driven by clint galbraith. although competent, he wasn't in the same class as those driving somebeachsomewhere.

what niatross accomplished, was strictly on his own ability.

did you happen to see this performance :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpUSssOlKEg

LottaKash
04-19-2010, 08:53 PM
Different period in time, but I will say this, "Niatross" in "all 37" of his victories, was never once, involved in a "Photo-Finish"....

He was something to watch, and he turned out to be darned good "Daddy" too...

Today they racem a few times, then they retire them....A different story then and now....Niatross was as tough as nails, imo....The crowds always came out for him, and cheered his victories.....It was a good time for Harness-Racing...I miss it...

best,

only11
04-19-2010, 08:57 PM
Different period in time, but I will say this, "Niatross" in "all 37" of his victories, was never once, involved in a "Photo-Finish"....

He was something to watch, and he turned out to be darned good "Daddy" too...

Today they racem a few times, then they retire them....A different story then and now....Niatross was as tough as nails, imo....The crowds always came out for him, and cheered his victories.....It was a good time for Harness-Racing...I miss it...

best,
Somebeachsomewhere was filthy ....Nihilator..Niatross 's best

Hanover1
04-19-2010, 10:58 PM
Different period in time, but I will say this, "Niatross" in "all 37" of his victories, was never once, involved in a "Photo-Finish"....

He was something to watch, and he turned out to be darned good "Daddy" too...

Today they racem a few times, then they retire them....A different story then and now....Niatross was as tough as nails, imo....The crowds always came out for him, and cheered his victories.....It was a good time for Harness-Racing...I miss it...

best,
I was around the curcuit at that time.....he was a freak, and Clint is/was a good friend of mine, and a darn good horseman, just an average pilot however, much like myself, probably better...lol

LottaKash
04-19-2010, 11:39 PM
There have been some pretty good ones to come down the line during my time in harness racing, and it is hard to say who may have been the best of the best...

But, there are two that will always stick out in my mind the most...

Bret Hanover, was the start of the modern day champion-warhorse club...He was King in the mid-60's and he managed to win 24 straight....In fact, my son "Bret" was named after him....(He still, after all these years, likes his name despite being named after a racehorse)

But, my favorite of "all-time" was "Cam Fella"...He was a nothing as a 2yo, but after that, the "Pacing Machine" went on to win 61 of his 80 races, including his last 28 straight before retiring to stud.!!!......As hard a hitting horse as there ever will be, and, all that vs. the best that North America had to offfer at the time...He wasn't the fastest of them all, but imo, he was the toughest one of all...

He used to regularly fall asleep in the paddock barn, right before his races.....And, he sired lots of winners as well...

best,

Hanover1
04-20-2010, 01:05 AM
There have been some pretty good ones to come down the line during my time in harness racing, and it is hard to say who may have been the best of the best...

But, there are two that will always stick out in my mind the most...

Bret Hanover, was the start of the modern day champion-warhorse club...He was King in the mid-60's and he managed to win 24 straight....In fact, my son "Bret" was named after him....(He still, after all these years, likes his name despite being named after a racehorse)

But, my favorite of "all-time" was "Cam Fella"...He was a nothing as a 2yo, but after that, the "Pacing Machine" went on to win 61 of his 80 races, including his last 28 straight before retiring to stud.!!!......As hard a hitting horse as there ever will be, and, all that vs. the best that North America had to offfer at the time...He wasn't the fastest of them all, but imo, he was the toughest one of all...

He used to regularly fall asleep in the paddock barn, right before his races.....And, he sired lots of winners as well...

best,
I go with you on Bret, however I heard to much innuendo in regards to Cam Fella to call him great, but you cannot argue with the numbers. I cannot substantiate anything I may have heard, so please do not ask for details. Just my opinion is all.......

sonnyp
04-20-2010, 04:10 PM
I go with you on Bret, however I heard to much innuendo in regards to Cam Fella to call him great, but you cannot argue with the numbers. I cannot substantiate anything I may have heard, so please do not ask for details. Just my opinion is all.......


here's a cam fella story. i was in the meadowlands paddock with a horse in an early race on a night cam fella was racing later in the card.

just happened to be near cam fella when his groom took him off the cross ties to put his bridle on to go out and warm up. this horse put his head down and started to cough and sneeze. the crap that flew out of him was unbelievable.

surely, i thought he'd be scratched. later, i was up in the grandstand and to my amazement, here he comes in the post parade at 3/5. i would have robbed a bank to bet against him after what i had seen with my own eyes.

well, as you might guess, pat crowe hauls him out first over and he whistles making 3/5 look like stealing.

i will never forget that performance which impressed upon me that great horses do great things. that's what seperates them from the rest.

Hanover1
04-20-2010, 05:42 PM
here's a cam fella story. i was in the meadowlands paddock with a horse in an early race on a night cam fella was racing later in the card.

just happened to be near cam fella when his groom took him off the cross ties to put his bridle on to go out and warm up. this horse put his head down and started to cough and sneeze. the crap that flew out of him was unbelievable.

surely, i thought he'd be scratched. later, i was up in the grandstand and to my amazement, here he comes in the post parade at 3/5. i would have robbed a bank to bet against him after what i had seen with my own eyes.

well, as you might guess, pat crowe hauls him out first over and he whistles making 3/5 look like stealing.

i will never forget that performance which impressed upon me that great horses do great things. that's what seperates them from the rest.
Could the coughing and crap coming out of him have been a result of a tubing? Im just sayin........

sonnyp
04-20-2010, 06:54 PM
Could the coughing and crap coming out of him have been a result of a tubing? Im just sayin........


listen to me......i know the difference between mucus and snot....and a milk shake.

and if you knew anything about a horse you'd know one of the biggest problems a horse has, anatomically, is their inability to regurgitate (puke). thats why they get their guts twisted.

thanks for the suggestion

am1947
04-21-2010, 11:45 AM
LK
I believe that was 35 straight for Bret Hanover !
AM

LottaKash
04-21-2010, 12:50 PM
LK
I believe that was 35 straight for Bret Hanover !
AM

Wow AM, are you sure ?...Hey Don, where is "Wilderness" Don when you need him ?

best,

wilderness
04-21-2010, 01:21 PM
Wow AM, are you sure ?...Hey Don, where is "Wilderness" Don when you need him ?

best,

from BIG BUM: The Story of Bret Hanover, page 111:

Adios Vic roars to the from to end Bret's all-time winning streak at 35 straight. Bret came back to win the second heat (and the the race), but unbeaten skein was broken. Big Springfield crowd is not shown.

wilderness
04-21-2010, 01:31 PM
Bret Hanover's Racing Record
Year Sts Wins 2nd 3rd Earnings
1964 24 24 0 0 $173,298
1965 24 21 3 0 341,784
1966 20 17 2 1 407,534
Tot 68 62 5 1 $922,616

wilderness
04-21-2010, 01:42 PM
BTW, a nice trivia would be to determine the names of the six winners that beat Bret Hanover?

I'm not going to research or provide the answer, however I'll provide three winners (maybe).

Adios Vic twice.
True Duane.

Anybody know the other three? or four (if I'm incorrect on Adios Vic twice)?

wilderness
04-21-2010, 01:48 PM
from a Sept 1964 Hoof Beats article on Bret:

Other Frank Ervin winning streaks? Sure! He scored 19 consecutive wins with Sampson Hanover, 20 straight with Expresson, 22 straight with Yankee Hanover.

Hanover1
04-21-2010, 01:55 PM
listen to me......i know the difference between mucus and snot....and a milk shake.

and if you knew anything about a horse you'd know one of the biggest problems a horse has, anatomically, is their inability to regurgitate (puke). thats why they get their guts twisted.

thanks for the suggestion
But you didn't know it was WIDELY reputed, and had nothing to do with puke and twisted guts....... :eek:

sonnyp
04-21-2010, 02:16 PM
But you didn't know it was WIDELY reputed, and had nothing to do with puke and twisted guts....... :eek:




i was telling, what i thought, was an interesting cam fella story. as usual, somebody (you) comes up with a conspiracy theory.

to clarify, a tube is passed through the horses nose and guided into the stomach by manipulating the epiglotis. once the tube is withdrawn, nothing from the stomach can come back "up". horses CAN NOT regurgitate. "crap" coughed or sneezed out comes from the lungs and/or upper respiratory tract.

i'm not going to start a debate. what you suggest is par for the course on the backstretch usually propagated by people who only wish to have had the likes of cam fella, niatross etc.

Hanover1
04-21-2010, 02:33 PM
i was telling, what i thought, was an interesting cam fella story. as usual, somebody (you) comes up with a conspiracy theory.

to clarify, a tube is passed through the horses nose and guided into the stomach by manipulating the epiglotis. once the tube is withdrawn, nothing from the stomach can come back "up". horses CAN NOT regurgitate. "crap" coughed or sneezed out comes from the lungs and/or upper respiratory tract.

i'm not going to start a debate. what you suggest is par for the course on the backstretch usually propagated by people who only wish to have had the likes of cam fella, niatross etc.
A wanna be trainer who rubbed awhile is what you sound like. My brother was a vets assistant for most of the 80's, and I was riding for top sheds, so don't attempt to sell what I have to say to short my friend. Your info regarding anatomy has nothing to do with this horses racing career, and preparations for said career, wich was common knowledge at one time. Sorry you missed the boat......

Ray2000
04-21-2010, 04:02 PM
BTW, a nice trivia would be to determine the names of the six winners that beat Bret Hanover?

I'm not going to research or provide the answer, however I'll provide three winners (maybe).

Adios Vic twice.
True Duane.

Anybody know the other three? or four (if I'm incorrect on Adios Vic twice)?


Cardigan Bay.....................maybe Meadow Skipper?

wilderness
04-21-2010, 04:33 PM
Cardigan Bay.....................maybe Meadow Skipper?

Cardigan Bay was at least once, perhaps twice.

Many thanks Ray.
Wish I could provide all the references, however searching is testing my patience today.

am1947
04-21-2010, 09:53 PM
From http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/Bret_Hanover

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1356&dat=19661030&id=eZIUAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ZAUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5752,6482300

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19661106&id=kA0zAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rugDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7267,1987234


Bret Hanover (May 19, 1962 - November 21, 1992), possibly the greatest ever pacing Standardbred, was born at Hanover Shoe Farms in Pennsylvania. The son of the great sire, Adios out of the mare Brenna Hanover, Bret Hanover was born on May 19 1962. He would become one of only nine horses in history to win harness racing's honour by capturing the Triple Crown of Harness Racing for Pacers. Trained and driven by Frank Ervin in his 1964 debut season in racing, two-year-old Bret Hanover was undefeated, winning all 24 races he entered and would continue undefeated for 35 races. In his second season of racing, he was 21-for-24 and in his last year of racing at age four, he was 17-for-20 for a career total of 62 wins in 68 races. He never placed worse than third. He was voted Horse of the Year for all three years by the US Trotting Association and the US Harness Writers Association, the only pacer ever to accomplish that. Bret Hanover was only ever beaten by three horses, one of them the great Cardigan Bay, the first standardbred horse ever to win $1 million dollars.The others were ADIOS VIC AND TRUE DUANE. Bret Hanover was retired as the fastest and richest standardbred. He went to stud at Castleton Farm in Lexington, Kentucky where he immediately became one of the most in-demand breeding stallions in harness racing history.

AM

LottaKash
04-21-2010, 10:30 PM
Thanks for updates guys....

Wow I forgot all about his "total" record...Been a long time you know....And trying to get it off of and out of the top of my head these days is sometimes a struggle of sorts, I almost always get most of it right, but invariably, always get a piece of it wrong...haha...

best,

Canadian
04-23-2010, 09:01 AM
Anyway. Back to the original question. Personally I think SBSW was the better horse. But you really can't compare era's. People like to say how Niatross went so many more races, but the miles were just so much slower. Even with all the equipment changes and track changes, ect,ect taken into account, they were still much slower miles by in large. I have no doubt that SBSW could pull a chuck wagon over a dusty old farm track in most of those times. The breed is different, the racing is night and day different. Not really far to compare.