OTB AND NYRA

[GARY Z]

Funny, I just watched the story of Joe Bonnano, (Godfather) who reigned
in the 60's.

One of the honorable stories is how the numbers games was handled
from the lowest echelon to the top, but overriding all was the fact the
winners were ALWAYS paid on a timely basis.

Anyone within the crew caught cheating either lost their territory
and/or were "severly" dealt with, ie:lost their lives.

NYRA appears to be disintegrating due to the Racino issue and now
OTB still gets a"pass" ????

Would it not make sense for NYRA to sue the City/State for the ton
of $due them, or is NYRA receiving any huge credits due to the failure
of OTB to pay what is owed them??

This mess would never ocurred were the "right" people involved.



:eek: :mad: :eek:

[OTM Al]

Funny, I just watched the story of Joe Bonnano, (Godfather) who reigned
in the 60's.

One of the honorable stories is how the numbers games was handled
from the lowest echelon to the top, but overriding all was the fact the
winners were ALWAYS paid on a timely basis.

Anyone within the crew caught cheating either lost their territory
and/or were "severly" dealt with, ie:lost their lives.

NYRA appears to be disintegrating due to the Racino issue and now
OTB still gets a"pass" ????

Would it not make sense for NYRA to sue the City/State for the ton
of $due them, or is NYRA receiving any huge credits due to the failure
of OTB to pay what is owed them??

This mess would never ocurred were the "right" people involved.



:eek: :mad: :eek:

Criminals are already running the OTB if you haven't noticed. They are called NY State government. If you are inferring if the mob ran horseracing then this "mess" wouldn't have happened, perhaps you are right, but you would have a few other more serious messes on your hands like racefixing and murder connected with those that did not comply. I notice you have forgotten the "honor" of those activities. These people were criminals who preyed on those around them and I don't see where there is any honor in that. So if you are so self centered and greedy that you don't see that as a problem, you may be even worse for the game than the OTBs.

[Brogan]

Would it not make sense for NYRA to sue the City/State for the ton
of $due them, or is NYRA receiving any huge credits due to the failure
of OTB to pay what is owed them??

NYCOTB is in Chapter IX bankruptcy reorganization. Can't sue.

[NY BRED]

I'm bad for the racing?

I guess you think taking ONE BILLION in money, paying "executives "

`100k and up, and leasing 85 cars for INCOMPETENTS with

Government approval, and threatening bankrutcy and consequently
causing layoffs and destroying NYRA is the answer??

While I'm not recommending the Cosa Nostra take over racing,
you are truly gullible if you don't think schemes are not happening
at any track by many barns and trainers throughout the U.S,
which has caused the decline in this game.:mad:

[Robert Goren]

NYCOTB is proof that there is nothing so good that if you put the right people in charge that it can't be screwed up. The only question is now, if they brought in a good management team could it be saved or is it too badly screwed up to save. One thing is for sure, the current management won't be able to do it. JMO

[OTM Al]

I'm bad for the racing?

I guess you think taking ONE BILLION in money, paying "executives "

`100k and up, and leasing 85 cars for INCOMPETENTS with

Government approval, and threatening bankrutcy and consequently
causing layoffs and destroying NYRA is the answer??

While I'm not recommending the Cosa Nostra take over racing,
you are truly gullible if you don't think schemes are not happening
at any track by many barns and trainers throughout the U.S,
which has caused the decline in this game.:mad:

And this is something new? Oh, I forgot, it was all on the up and up, all oats and water back in the good ol days....

Please get the story right too. They weren't paying incompetants, they were paying government appointees for essentially no show jobs. These people weren't given jobs in the first place to screw up, so the way I got it figured, they were far from incompetant, they were crooks. Just like the mob that you waxed poetic about under one alias and then claimed you weren't under another?

I'm sure you are frustrated with the situation. Anyone in this area should be, but man that analogy you were trying to make was just plain dumb. You think things are bad now, mob involvement would make it 100x worse.

[Indulto]

... They weren't paying incompetants, they were paying government appointees for essentially no show jobs. These people weren't given jobs in the first place to screw up, so the way I got it figured, they were far from incompetant, they were crooks. Just like the mob ....OA,
With Bruno now a convicted criminal, and the State Senate currently run by a suspected criminal, it’s unlikely the “crooks” running NYCOTB will go away any time soon. Who knows what kind of pressure was applied to Paterson’s pal, Frucher, to prevent him from cleaning house which was what he was supposed to accomplish after the state took over from the city. Maybe only someone like Bloomberg who can afford his own security could have made the decision to close it for good.

[Foolish Pleasure]

See the difference between the two?

The mob does not run businesses out of business while the government could give a flying f.

They do $1billion a year and can't make that work-insanity.


The whole world would be better off if McDonalds replaced 90% of the gov't including the various state beaurocrats running the tracks.

NYRA has more no show political patronage jobs that most entities have jobs.

[OTM Al]

NYRA has more no show political patronage jobs that most entities have jobs.

Really? Most people I see there work pretty hard. Care to name names or simply want to admit you don't understand the difference between NYRA and NYCOTB?

[OTM Al]

OA,
With Bruno now a convicted criminal, and the State Senate currently run by a suspected criminal, it’s unlikely the “crooks” running NYCOTB will go away any time soon. Who knows what kind of pressure was applied to Paterson’s pal, Frucher, to prevent him from cleaning house which was what he was supposed to accomplish after the state took over from the city. Maybe only someone like Bloomberg who can afford his own security could have made the decision to close it for good.

Votes and political support is the kind of pressure we're talking about. Lose control of the OTB system and you lose an easy way to pay off favors without making them look like bribes. Lose that and you lose the support of those who work with their hands out. I'm sure there are others, but it is a biggie.

[PaceAdvantage]

NYRA has more no show political patronage jobs that most entities have jobs.Clueless.

[slewis]

Clueless.


Except in the case of say, Hal Handel...who's position and ability is totality useless.

Then I could also point the spotlight on a guy named John Tierney who I believe recently retired.

Hey OTM AL...does that name strike a bell???

Here's a guy who is the head of NYRA security, is AWARE that serious tax scam laws are being broken in the infamous "mutel clerk scandal. Is forced by Spitzer to resign, and what does NYRA do????

They re-hire him as "Director of Facilities" AND title him with "Vice President".

Where was Getnick and Getnick on this one??:lol: Oh, I forgot, NYRA hired them.:lol:
BTW....since the NYRA is in such dire straits..wouldn't the money they pay (ed) these (and previous) legal guys serve more had they put those funds BACK INTO RACING..instead of into the pockets of a well connected law firm..not that I'm suggesting that NYRA is playing the "political favor game" or anything like that.:lol:

And you guys wonder why the politicians in Albany have a "eat shit and die a slow death" view of this organization.

Everyone on this board and on the NYRA board and the OTB board(s) as well, better get one thing F'in straight. You can bash politicians all day long but when the sun goes down THEY are in control of this sport. ..and it ain't changing. So when a FOOL, yes FOOL like Charlie Haywood comes out and says "We dont care if the state conducts Thoroughbred Racing, they just wont conduct it at Saratoga, Belmont or Aqueduct because that's our property". He better have a lot of tricks up his sleeve if he expects pols to cooperate when it comes to slots and bail-outs.

[classhandicapper]

There are a number of people involved with NYRA now that are former employees of OTB. From what I am told they were incompetent "do nothings" when they were at OTB. So unless, they finally found an IQ and work ethic....

I think an unavoidable part of being associated with government in any way is incompetence, corruption, and patronage jobs.

[aaron]

The funny thing about OTB and NYRA is that some people actually believed one or the other would shut down. Both are political agencies and are intertwined. NYRA might close,but then bids on the Breeders Cup-enough said.

[classhandicapper]

I also have to comment on OTB because I'm in a position to know a lot of what's going on and what the problems are.

Most of the branches are actually still very profitable despite the clerks being unionized and receiving some generous benefits. In fact, despite their appearance (which is often woeful), the branches are actually managed very efficiently.

The problem is the fixed costs associated with running the business (at the headquarters) keep rising while the industry is slowly changing away from brick and mortar store fronts like OTBs towards internet and phone wagering. The combination of declining revenues at branches and increased fixed costs has now reached the breaking point.

Personally, I think there is still a role for neighborhood branches because they tend to become social gathering places. The people that bet there are not going to sit at home all day and play on their computer. But clearly, something must be done to make the existing branches more comfortable, cleaner, nicer etc... in order to attract more customers.

What is clear is that the real fat is at the headquarters (all the VPs, the high rent building etc..). For example, the company could save 5 million dollars a year by moving out of its current location at 1501 to space that was offered at Aqueduct, but the executives don't like the idea of a longer commute. :bang:

The current plan (if it can be implemented) is to reduce the number of branches by 2/3, open a few large comfortable branches in each borough, and put a lot of betting machines in bars and other locations. That will involve massive layoffs and early retirements at both branches and headquarters as the company tries to change from brick and mortar to the world in 2010.

[PaceAdvantage]

Then I could also point the spotlight on a guy named John Tierney who I believe recently retired.

Hey OTM AL...does that name strike a bell???

Here's a guy who is the head of NYRA security, is AWARE that serious tax scam laws are being broken in the infamous "mutel clerk scandal. Is forced by Spitzer to resign, and what does NYRA do????

They re-hire him as "Director of Facilities" AND title him with "Vice President".Didn't we go through this song and dance already with Tierney? He never actually resigned from NYRA, and thus he was never actually re-hired.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/19361/nyra-names-new-security-director

Article clearly states Tierney was "reassigned to Facilities." Whether you want to read that as a demotion or whatever, he clearly never resigned from NYRA and thus it would have been impossible to re-hire him, as you state.

[slewis]

Didn't we go through this song and dance already with Tierney? He never actually resigned from NYRA, and thus he was never actually re-hired.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/19361/nyra-names-new-security-director

Article clearly states Tierney was "reassigned to Facilities." Whether you want to read that as a demotion or whatever, he clearly never resigned from NYRA and thus it would have been impossible to re-hire him, as you state.

Are you kidding me? Sorry I dont have the details so precise, like they're really relevant.

So let me see if I understand. Tierney is delinquent in his duties AND being a law enforcement OFFICER ( NYRA PEACE OFFICERS HAVE THE SAME POWERS AS COUNTY POLICE AT THE RACETRACKS LOCATION ) he knows of (and/or has been made aware of) the FELONIOUS ACTIVITY and does nothing about it.

THEN, he gets moved to another position and rewarded with a VP title !

Yup, as a taxpayer of the state I'm real comfortable with NYRA managerial decisions. Let's bump up the franchise to 50 years.:lol:

I heard NYRA is looking to hire Bernie Madoff too as their investment advisor.

PA, if you took a poll of 100 random people and explained this story to them how many would think it was a good idea to "move" Mr. Tierney?
How many would wonder why he was moved and not fired?

98%??? 95%??? 100%.

If I took a poll of 100 CEO's and explained the situation NYRA is in with politicians and asked them if they thought this move was a smart mangagement move..how many would say "sure, no problem"??

1%?? 2%?? ....

WHEN YOU FFFF UP ON YOUR JOB YOU DONT GET PROMOTED!!!! CASE CLOSED.. YOU GET FIRED...CASE CLOSED.
(Unless you work for Goldman Sachs...then you make 10 mil a year):lol:

[lamboguy]

losing barry swartz was a big blow to nyra. that man new the game from every aspect of it, owning, gambling, training and business management. when he got the job he did it for the love of the game. he did such a great job the residual's from his years at the helm has kept new york racing alive. you can compare the same thing to clinton at the helm for 8 years as president, he kept this place is one piece. i guess that swartz got tired of the polititical interventions in the matter and was getting fed up with it all. he stepped down before he got a nervous breakdown.

we all want new york racing to live. i have yet to win the belmont stakes, and when i do, i want to sleep the night before it at the garden city hotel.

[PaceAdvantage]

Are you kidding me? Sorry I dont have the details so precise, like they're really relevant.

So let me see if I understand. Tierney is delinquent in his duties AND being a law enforcement OFFICER ( NYRA PEACE OFFICERS HAVE THE SAME POWERS AS COUNTY POLICE AT THE RACETRACKS LOCATION ) he knows of (and/or has been made aware of) the FELONIOUS ACTIVITY and does nothing about it.

THEN, he gets moved to another position and rewarded with a VP title !

Yup, as a taxpayer of the state I'm real comfortable with NYRA managerial decisions. Let's bump up the franchise to 50 years.:lol:

I heard NYRA is looking to hire Bernie Madoff too as their investment advisor.

PA, if you took a poll of 100 random people and explained this story to them how many would think it was a good idea to "move" Mr. Tierney?
How many would wonder why he was moved and not fired?

98%??? 95%??? 100%.

If I took a poll of 100 CEO's and explained the situation NYRA is in with politicians and asked them if they thought this move was a smart mangagement move..how many would say "sure, no problem"??

1%?? 2%?? ....

WHEN YOU FFFF UP ON YOUR JOB YOU DONT GET PROMOTED!!!! CASE CLOSED.. YOU GET FIRED...CASE CLOSED.
(Unless you work for Goldman Sachs...then you make 10 mil a year):lol:And you think I am going to disagree with what you just wrote about Tierney?

Newsflash...I don't...

Then again, that isn't what my reply to you was all about...I was simply getting the facts straight, as I am want to do here from time to time...

[PaceAdvantage]

you can compare the same thing to clinton at the helm for 8 years as president, he kept this place is one piece.Wow...that's very debatable, but only on OFF TOPIC... :lol:

[miesque]

I have one very simple question after this past weekend. If NYRA is in such a precarious financial condition that they are unable to fully allay concerns about the rest of the 2010 season, then why are they aggressively trying to get the Breeders Cup in 2011. As strong a Breeders Cup supporter as I am, I know that hosting the Cup is not a financial windfall and if anything requires some spending to get everything spiffed up for the big weekend.

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2010/April/18/NYRA-bids-for-2011-Breeders-Cup-rotating-plan.aspx

[OTM Al]

I have one very simple question after this past weekend. If NYRA is in such a precarious financial condition that they are unable to fully allay concerns about the rest of the 2010 season, then why are they aggressively trying to get the Breeders Cup in 2011. As strong a Breeders Cup supporter as I am, I know that hosting the Cup is not a financial windfall and if anything requires some spending to get everything spiffed up for the big weekend.

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2010/April/18/NYRA-bids-for-2011-Breeders-Cup-rotating-plan.aspx

Perhaps they should just give up and make no plans for the future then? A business is truly dead when it stops trying to move forward no matter what the current state. What happens if you make no plans for the future and things end up working out? Oh yeah, I forgot, all racing management is stupid....

[Thomas Roulston]

I'll be at the OTB in about an hour - and while I'm there, maybe someone can tell me where I can buy tomorrow's DRF (as I'll be headed out to Aqu tomorrow). Nobody seems to sell it anywhere in downtown Manhattan!

[OTM Al]

I'll be at the OTB in about an hour - and while I'm there, maybe someone can tell me where I can buy tomorrow's DRF (as I'll be headed out to Aqu tomorrow). Nobody seems to sell it anywhere in downtown Manhattan!


There are a few places. There is a newstand on 6th Ave and 8th St that definitely has them

[Thomas Roulston]

There are a few places. There is a newstand on 6th Ave and 8th St that definitely has them


Thanks. I think I know the place. If I have no luck later today I'll check it out tomorrow morning.

[OTM Al]

They don't have a lot of copies. You can almost always get tomorrow's, but day of is hit and miss

[GARY Z]

If you care to pay the fare, The Port Authority located
at Eighth Ave and 40th-42nd Street contains Huson News
vendors(about 6) who carry the DRF..