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View Full Version : Where do critics of the Tea Party get the balls?


PaceAdvantage
04-16-2010, 04:38 PM
Originally posted in another thread, but I believe this deserves debate on its own right:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/local_tea_party_leader_who_suggested_shooting_hisp .php?ref=fpb

Local Tea Party Leader Who Suggested Shooting Hispanics Now Is Wanted By Cops -- Tweets: 'Arm Yourself'
Zachary Roth | April 14, 2010

Police are searching for a local Tea Party leader in Ohio who is wanted for violating a temporary protection order. Meanwhile, speakers at a Tea Party rally organized by the man, Brian "Sonny" Thomas, have pulled out after he suggested in a tweet that he wanted to shoot Hispanic immigrants -- then blaming it on a Bee Gees song.

Thomas is the founder and president of the Springboro Tea Party in southwest Ohio. He faces a misdemeanor charge after recently going to the home of the mother of his son, in violation of a protection order. The woman had previously told police that their son had returned from Thomas's home with bruises.

Thomas had already been in hot water, after he tweeted during a march in support of immigration reform: "Illegals everywhere today! So many spicks makes me feel like a speck. Grr. Where's my gun?"

.....................

These aren't just random demonstrators. This guy was the president of this region's Tea Party.You've got a guy, currently sitting in Congress, who is the Senior United States Senator from West Virginia...a CURRENT MEMBER and FORMER SENATE LEADER of the Democratic Party...and get this...according to Wikipedia:

Byrd has been President pro tempore of the United States Senate since 2007,[6] a position that puts him third in the line of presidential succession, behind Vice President Joe Biden and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Did you read that? THIRD IN LINE for PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES...

Now for the kicker...this man held the position of GRAND CYCLOPS in the KU KLUX KLAN...you've heard of that organization, haven't you Sec?

Here is a quote from this man's salad days:I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.This man's name is Robert Byrd. You've heard of him I trust Sec?

You're gonna cry about some nutbag local leader of the Tea Party movement when you've got someone like Robert Byrd THIRD IN LINE FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES? Are you ****ING KIDDING ME?

Screw you and your hypocrisy. How dare you EVER bring up ANYTHING to do with race or racism again. THAT GOES FOR ALL THE REST OF YOU WHO TAKE PLEASURE IN TRYING TO DEGRADE ANY CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT WITH YOUR BULLSHIT CHARGES OF RACISM.

It's absolutely amazing that Democrats are allowed to take the HIGH GROUND when it comes to race and racism, while at the same time allowing this SCUMBAG Robert Byrd to sit all those years in Congress.

WAKE THE **** UP

TOP THAT.

hazzardm
04-16-2010, 05:18 PM
How God and the Tea Party Can Save America

‘Instead of Israel-first candidates, the Tea Party must choose America-first candidates’

By Rev. Ted Pike

The National Tea Party movement describes itself as a fresh start for political and moral conservatism. Will there be real change? Not if more “Israel-first” candidates are promoted to high office.


Funny thing, this from the David Duke website. He probably knows Mr Byrd.

PaceAdvantage
04-16-2010, 05:22 PM
[I]Funny thing, this from the David Duke website. He probably knows Mr Byrd.Funny thing, David Duke is not a member of the movement, is he? So I fail to see your point in posting this nonsense.

Or are you promoting the fact that we should squelch the free speech of people we don't agree with (like David Duke...do you think he shouldn't be allowed to write about the Tea Party?)

Sec can continue posting these baloney Tea Party racist stories all he wants. I'll simply continue to call him the hypocrite that he is for doing so...free speech all around...

Ya'll are free to be as big a hypocrite as you desire. I'm also free to call you out on such, as I am doing here.

Tom
04-16-2010, 07:26 PM
It is obvious that the TP is doing it's job.
Just look at the know DNC stooges reaction here.
We even have Canadians up in arms, and it doesn't concern them in the least. :lol:

The fact that millions of people at home are watching and agreeing has them shaking. 46 is their spokesman......hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

PaceAdvantage
04-16-2010, 07:57 PM
Don Imus says something racist...Democrats go crazy on him...he loses his job.

Trent Lott says something controversial...Democrats go crazy on him...he loses his job.

Robert Byrd dons his best KKK whites and writes these incredibly disgusting statements way back when:

"I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.""The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia and in every state in the nation."Hell, as recently as 1997, he doesn't even seem all that disgusted with his KKK past...in fact, he seems more upset at what it may have done to him politically rather than the vile things it stands for:In 1997, he told an interviewer he would encourage young people to become involved in politics, but to "Be sure you avoid the Ku Klux Klan. Don't get that albatross around your neck. Once you've made that mistake, you inhibit your operations in the political arena."Was Byrd fired or dragged through the streets like Don Imus or Trent Lott? Is Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson holding daily protest marches at the Capitol until Byrd resigns?

Hell no. He still sits a few heartbeats away from being THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

You have got to be shitting me here people. You're upset about some guy in Ohio who TWEETS? You're upset about a guy on the RADIO? You're upset about a guy at a Tea Party holding a sign (who may or may not actually be who he says he is)? That gets your blood boiling?

But Byrd...he's cool...he's the man...he's QUALIFIED to be PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES in fact!!! :lol:

Wow.

fast4522
04-16-2010, 08:51 PM
The Birds the word, nobody is licking his chops more than Joe B. hoping to be like Lyndon B., forget the Bird, I bet his daily pill count is up to 19 per day now and CVS loves the guy. I could not kick an old racist like the Bird because his days are numbered. I would rather pick on Barney, they say his celebrity status while flying has everyone talking. And old Nancy reminds me of Mrs. Roper when Mr Roper would tell her that he thought she needed another coat of bondo for her face now that one is number 3 but she looks like number 2.
God bless everyone, I started bending the elbow early this Friday.

boxcar
04-16-2010, 09:14 PM
The Birds the word, nobody is licking his chops more than Joe B. hoping to be like Lyndon B., forget the Bird, I bet his daily pill count is up to 19 per day now and CVS loves the guy. I could not kick an old racist like the Bird because his days are numbered. I would rather pick on Barney, they say his celebrity status while flying has everyone talking. And old Nancy reminds me of Mrs. Roper when Mr Roper would tell her that he thought she needed another coat of bondo for her face now that one is number 3 but she looks like number 2.
God bless everyone, I started bending the elbow early this Friday.

You write better inebriated than any lib could stone, cold sober. :lol:

Boxcar

Buckeye
04-16-2010, 09:14 PM
from never never land. Look out.

Buckeye
04-16-2010, 09:27 PM
Pick it up if you will, a copy of our Constitution and read it. Sure, some of these clowns fought and died for it, but go ahead and read it anyway.

Then get back to me and talk about "fairness"

What a joke. There is nothing more fair than insisting The Individual human life has God Given Rights. Spend a little more time reading about and appreciating what was done for you.

NJ Stinks
04-16-2010, 09:37 PM
Hell no. He still sits a few heartbeats away from being THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.



Talk about playing a longshot. In the history of this country have we ever gone past the V.P.? So now I'm supposed to get worked up because Byrd is 3rd in line?

I may as well worry about an earthquake devastating NJ while I'm at it.

bigmack
04-16-2010, 09:44 PM
I love these constant angled questions by the likes of NBC:

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=XdSUuz8zZu

A white, libed-out hag asking a black cat if he feels uncomfortable. :lol:

Straight from the mouths of mostpost, hcap, SpaceFreak, hazzard, SmellyNJ, Goren, Sec. Talk about racists!

Good God, it's not only on your sleeves, it's all over your hands/face and dripping down to your elbows. Like jackals tryin' to get a piece & slobbering around looking to point a finger.

On a side note, I gotta say, Sec, you've been one complete creep in this debate. Take a long shower and sit in front of a mirror. :ThmbDown:

Wake up and smell the latte.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/dogwakeup.gif

johnhannibalsmith
04-16-2010, 10:07 PM
Talk about playing a longshot. In the history of this country have we ever gone past the V.P.? So now I'm supposed to get worked up because Byrd is 3rd in line?

I may as well worry about an earthquake devastating NJ while I'm at it.

Could you have possibly missed the point by any greater margin?

PaceAdvantage
04-16-2010, 10:10 PM
Pick it up if you will, a copy of our Constitution and read it. Sure, some of these clowns fought and died for it, but go ahead and read it anyway.

Then get back to me and talk about "fairness"

What a joke. There is nothing more fair than insisting The Individual human life has God Given Rights. Spend a little more time reading about and appreciating what was done for you.Was this addressed to me? If so, what the heck are you talking about in relation to what I posted?

NJ Stinks
04-16-2010, 10:13 PM
I love these constant angled questions by the likes of NBC:

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=XdSUuz8zZu

A white, libed-out hag asking a black cat if he feels uncomfortable. :lol:

Straight from the mouths of mostpost, hcap, SpaceFreak, hazzard, SmellyNJ, Goren, Sec. Talk about racists!



You know how you don't like me putting words in your mouth? Find one post where I even remotely mentioned race being a factor with the Tea Party or anything else for that matter. Then paste it here for all to see.

Good luck finding something. :rolleyes:

Steve 'StatMan'
04-16-2010, 10:21 PM
Talk about playing a longshot. In the history of this country have we ever gone past the V.P.? So now I'm supposed to get worked up because Byrd is 3rd in line?

I may as well worry about an earthquake devastating NJ while I'm at it.

We got Gerald Ford as President in a 2-Step process. Agnew resigned the VP spot in scandal, and Ford replaced Agnew. Then Nixon resigned the presidency and Ford became president. This was in 1973-1974.

No one has posted here, but Poland's top leadership, and many top people from the private & public sectors were killed in Russia last week in a terrible airplane crash, when their governement staff pilot chose to ignore Russian air traffic controlers urgent warnings about worsening weather conditions on the ground and to divert and land elsewhere.

NJ Stinks
04-16-2010, 10:26 PM
Could you have possibly missed the point by any greater margin?

That was the point that merited red ink by PA.

I did not think Imus or Lott should have been fired either if that means anything.

Comparing Byrd with this guy in Ohio is a reach. Unless the guy in Ohio did a lot of good things in his public life like Byrd has. Anyway, as Robert likes to add, this is JMO. I'm not hoping anyone agrees with me.

boxcar
04-16-2010, 10:29 PM
Could you have possibly missed the point by any greater margin?

Selectively missed points come with the territory of liberalism.

Boxcar

johnhannibalsmith
04-16-2010, 10:36 PM
That was the point that merited red ink by PA.

I did not think Imus or Lott should have been fired either if that means anything.

Comparing Byrd with this guy in Ohio is a reach. Unless the guy in Ohio did a lot of good things in his public life like Byrd has. Anyway, as Robert likes to add, this is JMO. I'm not hoping anyone agrees with me.

The way I understand it, and I could be wrong, but the red ink was to punctuate the point being made, not offer up a secondary point.

We're supposed to cower in a corner in fear of some nobody hack that is the "leader" of a local chapter of a "movement" that everyone is quick to point out fails to attract crowds worth the press that they get. We are supposed to fall down sideways in horror at a snapshot of some random twit carrying a sign with misspelled words.

Constantly, the left wing activists, left wing media, and Democrats themselves want to amplify the lowest common denominators from absolute obscurity to media prominence in an effort to mischaracterize the true representatives.

Meanwhile, sitting right there amongst them, literally as one of the most powerful and prominent men in the most powerful and prominent political party is this cretin. Yet, his name never gets a mention.

The red ink, as I read it, is not about the literal possibility of Byrd leading our country. It's about highlighting an irrefutable, self-proclaimed racist that actually has a trillion times the level of stature and influence right there within their ranks while they make every effort to turn total fringe nobodies into pseudo-celebrities to make the very point that is made NO BETTER than by looking at Byrd and the party that they are affiliated with.

PaceAdvantage
04-16-2010, 10:43 PM
The way I understand it, and I could be wrong, but the red ink was to punctuate the point being made, not offer up a secondary point.

We're supposed to cower in a corner in fear of some nobody hack that is the "leader" of a local chapter of a "movement" that everyone is quick to point out fails to attract crowds worth the press that they get. We are supposed to fall down sideways in horror at a snapshot of some random twit carrying a sign with misspelled words.

Constantly, the left wing activists, left wing media, and Democrats themselves want to amplify the lowest common denominators from absolute obscurity to media prominence in an effort to mischaracterize the true representatives.

Meanwhile, sitting right there amongst them, literally as one of the most powerful and prominent men in the most powerful and prominent political party is this cretin. Yet, his name never gets a mention.

The red ink, as I read it, is not about the literal possibility of Byrd leading our country. It's about highlighting an irrefutable, self-proclaimed racist that actually has a trillion times the level of stature and influence right there within their ranks while they make every effort to turn total fringe nobodies into pseudo-celebrities to make the very point that is made NO BETTER than by looking at Byrd and the party that they are affiliated with.Thank you sir. You have perfectly captured the true essence and meaning behind my words.

Somehow, this escaped NJ Stinks, as his most recent reply continues to illustrate.

bigmack
04-16-2010, 10:48 PM
Find one post where I even remotely mentioned race being a factor with the Tea Party or anything else for that matter. Then paste it here for all to see.
I was referring to a 'SmellyNJ' - How could you possibly assume it was directed towards you? :rolleyes:

Alright sir, fair enough. I applaud you for not jumping on the idiotic bandwagon and will get the heck off of your cloud. I'll be watching you though.

http://popup.lala.com/popup/1297318195665705707
Get Off of My Cloud
Belwin Concert Band

ElKabong
04-16-2010, 10:52 PM
Straight from the mouths of mostpost, hcap, SpaceFreak, hazzard, SmellyNJ, Goren, Sec. Talk about racists!


http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/dogwakeup.gif

I doubt that hazzard is a bad dude. I've posted on other forums w/ him, he doesn't come off that way. I know he and PA got into it (we all do w/ ea other at times), but if you read his stuff for years you'd think he's straight up and honest.

The others you mentioned??? Under the bus! ;)

swami13
04-16-2010, 10:53 PM
Pace, getting back to the heading on the post:

Where do critics of the Tea Party get the balls?

They are very afraid about November, only to get worse.

boxcar
04-16-2010, 11:32 PM
The way I understand it, and I could be wrong, but the red ink was to punctuate the point being made, not offer up a secondary point.

We're supposed to cower in a corner in fear of some nobody hack that is the "leader" of a local chapter of a "movement" that everyone is quick to point out fails to attract crowds worth the press that they get. We are supposed to fall down sideways in horror at a snapshot of some random twit carrying a sign with misspelled words.

Constantly, the left wing activists, left wing media, and Democrats themselves want to amplify the lowest common denominators from absolute obscurity to media prominence in an effort to mischaracterize the true representatives.

Meanwhile, sitting right there amongst them, literally as one of the most powerful and prominent men in the most powerful and prominent political party is this cretin. Yet, his name never gets a mention.

The red ink, as I read it, is not about the literal possibility of Byrd leading our country. It's about highlighting an irrefutable, self-proclaimed racist that actually has a trillion times the level of stature and influence right there within their ranks while they make every effort to turn total fringe nobodies into pseudo-celebrities to make the very point that is made NO BETTER than by looking at Byrd and the party that they are affiliated with.


Great Post! Or as the bible would succinctly describe liberals (paraphrasing) as being people who strain at gnats only to swallow the camel under their own tent!

Boxcar

Buckeye
04-17-2010, 06:49 AM
BULLSHIT CHARGES OF RACISM

good point PA-- as it was Lincoln who freed the slaves, not all by himself-- he had "help" from other white guys too.

Republican help.

Racism is not up for debate. What is up for debate however, is Obama vs. the Founding Fathers and the Constitution they wrote. The Tea Party is just getting started.

Buckeye
04-17-2010, 07:14 AM
Where do the critics of the Tea Party Movement get their balls from? Who cares but one word sums it up: fear.

Certainly they should be afraid of the truth, and No surprise they will attempt to obfuscate to no avail.

Buckeye
04-17-2010, 07:36 AM
If I'm wrong, we live in Canada, and or are (still) a Colony of the British Empire. The American Civil War shed more blood than even I can stomach.

Robert Goren
04-17-2010, 10:57 AM
The President Pro Tem is a honorary position held the most senior member of the majority party. He has had no power in over 150 years. He is third in line to president technically speaking. But with the passage of the 25th amendment, the likelihood him ever becomes very remote.

Tom
04-17-2010, 11:39 AM
The very idea this racist pig is in congress is a stain on the democrats.
But just one stain among many.

46zilzal
04-17-2010, 12:19 PM
Where do the critics of the Tea Party Movement get their balls from? Who cares but one word sums it up: fear.

Certainly they should be afraid of the truth, and No surprise they will attempt to obfuscate to no avail.
Interesting that OVERALL, this group falls along the same lines as the civil war.

illinoisbred
04-17-2010, 12:23 PM
Interesting that OVERALL, this group falls along the same lines as the civil war.
FINALLY,proof positive that there's one topic you surely haven't read much about.

delayjf
04-17-2010, 12:27 PM
Interesting that OVERALL, this group falls along the same lines as the civil war.

I think the Progressive movement is going to have to find another way to intimidate or shame those who disagree with their agenda. Simply labeling someone a racist because they disagree with you is not working.

46zilzal
04-17-2010, 12:28 PM
FINALLY,proof positive that there's one topic you surely haven't read much about.
The South did not want the CENTRAL government telling them what to do, they were all about states rights are were ready to "fight" to be heard, etc etc etc

Robert Goren
04-17-2010, 12:42 PM
The very idea this racist pig is in congress is a stain on the democrats.
But just one stain among many. Agreed. He is one of the last of the anti black racist left in the democratic party. They should have booted him out long ago. I think they just assumed that he leave and become a republican like most of the anti black racists did in the 1970s and 1980s when the democratic party finally fully embraced the idea that civil rights were more important than state's rights. JMO

ElKabong
04-17-2010, 12:49 PM
I think the Progressive movement is going to have to find another way to intimidate or shame those who disagree with their agenda. Simply labeling someone a racist because they disagree with you is not working.


That card has been used incorrectly so often by liberals that it's lost its bite. Like the boy that cried wolf, so is the fate of the too loosely used race card.

I'm immune to it now, to be honest. I know racism when I see it & don't like it, but liberals have tried to use the race card as some "shame on you for disagreeing with me on (name your issue)" far too often. People are numb to the label now.

skate
04-17-2010, 01:22 PM
Oh yes yes yes, we keep hearing about the White Guy is the backing for the tea party and somehow this is Negatory.


Never ever heard about 'who backed the Million man march' 'who backed the Latino march'. These movements were ALL self centered, while the Tea Party is most certainly "open to all-anti Gov movement".

It is critical of Both Parties.

Robert Goren
04-17-2010, 01:26 PM
Oh yes yes yes, we keep hearing about the White Guy is the backing for the tea party and somehow this is Negatory.


Never ever heard about 'who backed the Million man march' 'who backed the Latino march'. These movements were ALL self centered, while the Tea Party is most certainly "open to all-anti Gov movement".

It is critical of Both Parties. They up front about it. The tea party doest protest to much about being white.

Tom
04-17-2010, 01:29 PM
Only racists are making race an issue here.
Look in a mirror, then post.

hazzardm
04-17-2010, 02:22 PM
Straight from the mouths of mostpost, hcap, SpaceFreak, hazzard, SmellyNJ, Goren, Sec. Talk about racists!

Wake up and smell the latte.


Real men don't drink latte :lol:

hazzardm
04-17-2010, 02:24 PM
I doubt that hazzard is a bad dude.

Between you and my pet fish, that makes two.
Thanks.

hazzardm
04-17-2010, 02:26 PM
I applaud you for not jumping on the idiotic bandwagon and will get the heck off of your cloud. I'll be watching you though.



:lol: Morality police. :lol:

Buckeye
04-17-2010, 07:36 PM
Between you and my pet fish, that makes two.
Thanks.

are your fish black or white? Racism is gone as we all came from Africa.

Including the Chinese.

NJ Stinks
04-17-2010, 11:41 PM
I doubt that hazzard is a bad dude. I've posted on other forums w/ him, he doesn't come off that way. I know he and PA got into it (we all do w/ ea other at times), but if you read his stuff for years you'd think he's straight up and honest.

The others you mentioned??? Under the bus! ;)

There are others named who are innocent too.

Signed,
Dr. Richard Kimble

ElKabong
04-18-2010, 01:21 AM
There are others named who are innocent too.

Signed,
Dr. Richard Kimble

You're alright in my book, NJ.

NJ Stinks
04-18-2010, 02:26 PM
You're alright in my book, NJ.

Yea yea....but can I move to Waco? :p :)

skate
04-18-2010, 02:54 PM
Yea yea....but can I move to Waco? :p :)


Welp, if the tea party dont party no mo, then Waco will Come To You Baby.:kiss:

dartman51
04-18-2010, 05:56 PM
You're alright in my book, NJ.

I'll second that. I don't often agree with NJ, just sometimes, but he's not totally off the wall, like some here. ;)

PaceAdvantage
04-19-2010, 03:51 AM
Anytime anyone brings up Tea Party and racism, all you have to do is shout them down like Rosie would:

ROBERT BYRD. GOOGLE IT!

hazzardm
04-19-2010, 11:09 AM
all you have to do is shout them down like Rosie would:


ROTFLMAO, :lol:

That is PRECISELY the image of Tea Paty many people expect.

Tom
04-19-2010, 11:47 AM
You mean the image the MSM expects.
Most everyone I know has no such fear of the TP, in fact, many wish they could get time off to go to a rally. People are nowhere near as stupid as Wolf Bitzer thinks they are. Or hcap or Sec. Or 46 :rolleyes:

I wonder how many making all these accusations and posting links have ever actually gone a a TP rally. I have been to two, and will go to everyone I can.
I assure you, there much being made of nothing here. but that is what we expect fro the left. I smell blood in the water.......we shall see.

JustRalph
04-19-2010, 02:59 PM
I really admire these people.........


P1CLPhz0DHM

riskman
04-19-2010, 03:44 PM
Great video JR. Bottom line--it isn't about color. It is about freedom.
The tea party people are literally all over the map. From what I see they represent a return to traditional American values that weren’t in evidence in the big-spending, big-government administrations of the past.

The tea partiers tend to lean more toward the view that both our Constitution and our finances be put first before any more new entitlement programs that are paid for with fiat currency.

boxcar
04-19-2010, 04:31 PM
I don't understand why the Left is up in arms over the TP movement. I really don't get it. According to Screeching Hillary, whenever anyone protests against some administration (as she so often did when Bush was in office), we are merely behaving like true American patriots. Check this out...right from the nag's own mouth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_9hGeZawxc

Boxcar

ArlJim78
04-19-2010, 04:45 PM
they don't know what they're talking about, just more nonsensical ranting from the left.

I see over the weekend Senator (don't call me ma'am) Babs Boxer was exhorting her supporters to get fired up, LIKE THE TEA PARTY PEOPLE. So which is it, either the Tea Party is a dangerous group of misinformed selfish racists, or they are they a group to be emulated.

Tom
04-19-2010, 10:46 PM
The Tea Party....silent no more. :ThmbUp:

fast4522
04-19-2010, 11:03 PM
I don't understand why the Left is up in arms over the TP movement. I really don't get it. According to Screeching Hillary, whenever anyone protests against some administration (as she so often did when Bush was in office), we are merely behaving like true American patriots. Check this out...right from the nag's own mouth.

Boxcar,
It is all about timing, they all know that they peaked too soon and will soon pay the piper for the exposed Marxist swing that has occured. They also know without iconic figures like Ted Kennedy around to take the heat and defuse things with a element of trust the polarization will be far too immense and the Democrat's are up for huge losses. Huge as defined as long term entrenched figures like Barney, Nancy, Harry and those who perpetrated that filthy POS. Please excuse how I depict the last part but sometimes honest is not exactly nice.