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View Full Version : Zenyatta is better for horse racing than RA


WeirdWilly
04-13-2010, 08:18 AM
Regardless of whether, by the standards of this group, Zenyatta is a superhorse, ran against weak in the AB, doesn't run 110+ every race, the fact remains, it is fun to watch her, and she can get lightweight/non-fans excited.

Her size, her strut, her amazing closes - and she and Mike Smith seem a natural together.

My roomie was fascinated by the videos she saw of Zen. And she was totally disgusted by Calvin Borel's whip work on Rachel at Saratoga last year. I was turned off by it myself. She did love seeing the video of RA throwing CB.

So, to me, the lessons are A) promote Zen as a mainstream superstar and B) don't whip so hard that it smacks of cruelty and turns people off.

Tom
04-13-2010, 09:45 AM
I think RA had the racing world a buzz last year.
Saratoga went bananas!

tzipi
04-13-2010, 11:51 AM
Yeah I don't think we can just call the year already in April. They race till November. Zen surely gets the crowd going and we'll have to see what RA does too this year. I think they are equally both great for racing so far but yes RA as of now in April has to get rolling. I'm looking forward to a great year of racing :ThmbUp:

point given
04-13-2010, 12:02 PM
Your title is absurd. I guess the 2009 HOY is chopped liver and should have been retired then instead of a 2010 campaign. They are both great and we should be happy to go out to the track and see them compete.

46zilzal
04-13-2010, 12:08 PM
What does almost every sport have, year in and year out, that horse racing doesn't any longer? Champions that the crowd want to see so they can say, years later, I was there to see ____________.

How many people go see the Yankees just to see Jeter Rodriguez and the gang?

When I went to Anita one day to see John Henry, the crowd was about 30% larger than normal and we had to go to the paddock two races before in order to get a position at the rail.

Big late movers leave a deep lasting impression....she is good for the game.

BOTH are good for the game.

Horseplayersbet.com
04-13-2010, 02:05 PM
An undefeated horse is more likely to attract the larger crowds.

DeanT
04-13-2010, 02:11 PM
Fast forward to 2:24. This aint chopped liver in terms of fan participation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9cuS9Ijqcw

WinterTriangle
04-13-2010, 02:32 PM
Your title is absurd

Yes, it was.

BOTH are good for the game.

Yes, they are.

(how else do you respond to such a silly topic title?)

Kimsus
04-13-2010, 02:38 PM
Let's not be too harsh here, Rachel is great for the game also, infact any horse that is good that is racing instead of being retired for breeding purposes is great for this game.

horses4courses
04-13-2010, 02:44 PM
I'm a big fan of Zenyatta's.
I believe that under nearly all circumstances, she will defeat Rachel this year.

However, take nothing away from Rachel Alexander and her achievements.
She deserved to be HOY last year.

Zenyatta had an easy campaign in 2009, before running lights-out to beat a top class field in the BC Classic, regardless of the surface she did it on.
One race did not earn her the HOY title. That is as it should be.

Zenyatta has been on the verge of HOY for 2 years now.
I believe she can go all the way, and take the title this year, which will be her crowning achievement, and a good point at which to retire.

the little guy
04-13-2010, 02:48 PM
The title of this thread should be " Why Some People ( perhaps unfairly ) Don't Like Zenyatta. "

Too many people feel a need to knock Rachel Alexandra to prop up Zenyatta. I guess that's what many people do when they know they stand on thin ice.

Stevie Belmont
04-13-2010, 02:49 PM
Yea—that's an absurd title...

WinterTriangle
04-13-2010, 02:53 PM
Zenyatta has been on the verge of HOY for 2 years now.
I believe she can go all the way, and take the title this year, which will be her crowning achievement, and a good point at which to retire.

Seeing Zen on the track, and in winners circle, she thrives on being in the game, the attention, winning, the whole 9 yards. The flash bulbs were going off incessantly in the (somewhat dim) paddock. (I was surprised they saddled her in there, actually...) She eats it up.

I'm sure she could care less if she wins an award.....those are for *her people*. They sure are nice to give us another year of her.

Fager Fan
04-13-2010, 03:06 PM
The title of this thread should be " Why Some People ( perhaps unfairly ) Don't Like Zenyatta. "

Too many people feel a need to knock Rachel Alexandra to prop up Zenyatta. I guess that's what many people do when they know they stand on thin ice.

Amen.

What the thread starter and their ilk don't even understand is that it's them who we're pulling against, not the horse. We like the horse, but we want them to stuff a sock in it.

joanied
04-13-2010, 03:08 PM
Hate to knock someone...but, yeah...not a good title. Anyone that can't agree that BOTH are great for racing is awful closed minded...but I would think that once Rachel gets back...really gets back...folks will quit trying to figure which is better for racing...
Every time I see Rachel's Woodward I get choked up...and I have no doubt she is going to give everyone the thrill of her victories again this year...and Calvin will play to the crowd, which always helps produce extra crowd noise:) ...
as far as what is better for racing...Zenyatta & Rachel are a dead heat...the crime, IMO, is that I'm affraid the industry is not going to do all it should to get them both on the front pages...as soon as Rachel has her next race, and wins, the industry PR/marketing guys better get off their butts and begine showing TV ads, magazine ads, ect....and I'm don't mean on HRTV/TVG, the BloodHorse, TB Times...I mean on national TV.
I seriously doubt that racing will get this kind of opportunity again for a very, very long time.
Zenyatta is the Queen, Rachel is the Princess and BOTH are ROYALTY:jump:

ghostyapper
04-13-2010, 03:10 PM
The title of this thread should be " Why Some People ( perhaps unfairly ) Don't Like Zenyatta. "

Too many people feel a need to knock Rachel Alexandra to prop up Zenyatta. I guess that's what many people do when they know they stand on thin ice.

It's unwarranted but no doubt it's probably a backlash from the rachel groupies last year who did NOTHING BUT KNOCK ZENYATTA.

Guess you didn't have a problem with that. O wait you were one of the rachel groupies so why would you :ThmbDown:

thaskalos
04-13-2010, 03:16 PM
I think horseracing fans, being as unaccustomed as we are to having positive things happen in our sport, tend to over-react when something great finally does take place.

Both Rachel and Zenyatta have been great to watch and to cheer for, and if a rivalry between them does materialize, GREAT...if not...well...at least horseplayers are used to heartbreaks...

OTM Al
04-13-2010, 04:18 PM
Wish I had a dollar for every time some genius started telling us what is better/best for horse racing....

Maybe I don't know what really is best for racing, but I can tell you I know what's bad for it and that's constant negativity.

Cardus
04-13-2010, 04:32 PM
I'd take it further: Zenyatta is better for mankind than is Rachel Alexandra.

Seabiscuit@AR
04-13-2010, 08:12 PM
There is nothing wrong with the title of this thread, it is simple truth

Undefeated horses are rare. Winning closers are rare. Horses able to win at the top level over 3 or more seasons are rare. So right now Zenyatta is quite unique and that makes her valuable for horse racing

As for Rachel A well her career is most definitely at the crossroads. Plenty of horses have one good year especially at the 2YO or 3YO level. Rachel is a January foal which is an advantage as a 2YO or 3YO but also likely to mean the transition to open class racing will be harder as there is less room for improvement. If Rachel disappoints at her next start my guess is she will be retired and just become another one of those horses with a good 3YO year to their credit

Cardus
04-13-2010, 08:18 PM
There is nothing wrong with the title of this thread, it is simple truth

Undefeated horses are rare. Winning closers are rare. Horses able to win at the top level over 3 or more seasons are rare. So right now Zenyatta is quite unique and that makes her valuable for horse racing

As for Rachel A well her career is most definitely at the crossroads. Plenty of horses have one good year especially at the 2YO or 3YO level. Rachel is a January foal which is an advantage as a 2YO or 3YO but also likely to mean the transition to open class racing will be harder as there is less room for improvement. If Rachel disappoints at her next start my guess is she will be retired and just become another one of those horses with a good 3YO year to their credit

A "good" three-year-old season?

You're lost.

born2ride
04-13-2010, 08:36 PM
There is nothing wrong with the title of this thread, it is simple truth

Undefeated horses are rare. Winning closers are rare. Horses able to win at the top level over 3 or more seasons are rare. So right now Zenyatta is quite unique and that makes her valuable for horse racing

As for Rachel A well her career is most definitely at the crossroads. Plenty of horses have one good year especially at the 2YO or 3YO level. Rachel is a January foal which is an advantage as a 2YO or 3YO but also likely to mean the transition to open class racing will be harder as there is less room for improvement. If Rachel disappoints at her next start my guess is she will be retired and just become another one of those horses with a good 3YO year to their credit

Who are you talking about when you it's rare that horse wins at the top level 3 or more seasons?

It's harder for a January foal to transition into open class racing? :lol: OMG, that is too funny. Even funnier that you say if she's retired she'll be remembered as one of those horses with a good 3 year old year to their credit. Any idea how many "good" 3 year old fillies went on to win HOY? How poor US racing has become for us to award a "good" filly HOY. :lol: :lol:

McSock
04-13-2010, 09:05 PM
I am a major Zen. fan, not so much of RA. But, even my 1 sided So Cal opinion can not dispute the fact they are both good for racing. RA will lose some of that glamor if the 2 do not meet someplace this year, but she still has been good for the game.
I just want to see "the" race.

Indulto
04-13-2010, 09:56 PM
Wish I had a dollar for every time some genius started telling us what is better/best for horse racing....

Maybe I don't know what really is best for racing, but I can tell you I know what's bad for it and that's constant negativity.OA,
What do you expect?

Frustration is Joe Horseplayer’s middle name. Can we really expect most people to lose and like it?

This board is all about negativity because it helps relieve our frustrations or at least re-channel them. People come here to argue, not to sing Kumbaya.

The Rachel-Zenyatta issue fuels our frustration because the connections won’t allow the issue to be settles one way or another.

Almost everything about these horses is polarizing:
Front Runner vs. closer
Never passed vs. passes everything.
Takes a lot of whipping vs. seldom whipped
East Coast vs. West Coast
Dirt vs. Synthetic
Assmussen vs. Shiriffs
Jackson vs. Moss
Bo-rail vs. No-Rail
Yadda yadda yadda.

There. Now I feelbetta.
Are we having funyetta? ;)

chickenhead
04-13-2010, 10:07 PM
I'd take it further: Zenyatta is better for mankind than is Rachel Alexandra.

I second that.

Someone must have doctored this pic, but if anyone is good at photoshop please restore Zenyatta to her real color. Leave the horn.

Grits
04-13-2010, 10:21 PM
There. Now I feelbetta.
Are we having funyetta? ;)

Watching them run. Either of them, is far, far better than any amount of whining and moaning than one could ever manage. Especially when the nice gentlemen of Arkansas who are on the rail, dead in front of the finish line learn that you flew a thousand miles to watch one of the mares run.

They invite you down to the rail, and make room for you right in front of them . . . . digital camera and all, clicking away.;)

(I've not taken my camera to the track in a long while, it made my luggage a lot heavier, and hauling my camera bag around was tiring. Still, glad I went to the trouble.

Hopefully, I'll get some photos posted. I'm not very good at resizing. Color, contrast, brightness adjustments, etc, yes I worked on all of that today . . . but not resizing.

May have to fly when one or the other runs again. Camera in tow.

joanied
04-14-2010, 04:54 PM
OA,
What do you expect?

Frustration is Joe Horseplayer’s middle name. Can we really expect most people to lose and like it?

This board is all about negativity because it helps relieve our frustrations or at least re-channel them. People come here to argue, not to sing Kumbaya.

The Rachel-Zenyatta issue fuels our frustration because the connections won’t allow the issue to be settles one way or another.

Almost everything about these horses is polarizing:
Front Runner vs. closer
Never passed vs. passes everything.
Takes a lot of whipping vs. seldom whipped
East Coast vs. West Coast
Dirt vs. Synthetic
Assmussen vs. Shiriffs
Jackson vs. Moss
Bo-rail vs. No-Rail
Yadda yadda yadda.

There. Now I feelbetta.
Are we having funyetta? ;)


:ThmbUp: :lol: :ThmbUp:

razzle
04-14-2010, 05:21 PM
OA,
What do you expect?

Frustration is Joe Horseplayer’s middle name. Can we really expect most people to lose and like it?

This board is all about negativity because it helps relieve our frustrations or at least re-channel them. People come here to argue, not to sing Kumbaya.

The Rachel-Zenyatta issue fuels our frustration because the connections won’t allow the issue to be settles one way or another.

Almost everything about these horses is polarizing:
Front Runner vs. closer
Never passed vs. passes everything.
Takes a lot of whipping vs. seldom whipped
East Coast vs. West Coast
Dirt vs. Synthetic
Assmussen vs. Shiriffs
Jackson vs. Moss
Bo-rail vs. No-Rail
Yadda yadda yadda.

There. Now I feelbetta.
Are we having funyetta? ;)
You raise some good poinsettas...

46zilzal
04-14-2010, 05:53 PM
I like the tongue waggling.

Indulto
04-14-2010, 07:06 PM
Watching them run. Either of them, is far, far better than any amount of whining and moaning than one could ever manage. Especially when the nice gentlemen of Arkansas who are on the rail, dead in front of the finish line learn that you flew a thousand miles to watch one of the mares run.

They invite you down to the rail, and make room for you right in front of them . . . . digital camera and all, clicking away.;)

(I've not taken my camera to the track in a long while, it made my luggage a lot heavier, and hauling my camera bag around was tiring. Still, glad I went to the trouble.

Hopefully, I'll get some photos posted. I'm not very good at resizing. Color, contrast, brightness adjustments, etc, yes I worked on all of that today . . . but not resizing.

May have to fly when one or the other runs again. Camera in tow.Grits,
After seeing that picture of U at Saratoga with OA, I U tellgotta -- those "nice" gentlemen didn't invite you down to the rail because U wanted towatcha filly who was a goodlooka, but because U R 1 and they wanted 2 youwatcha. ;)
Let me know when you want to sing Kumbaya. :jump:

joanied,
It's always nice to know I made someone chuckle.

Raz,
Zenyatta, who could forgetta?
Rachel, some already forgotta.
Jackson soonbetta showuppa!

joanied
04-14-2010, 07:18 PM
I think we're all kinda nutsa:jump:

WeirdWilly
04-14-2010, 09:14 PM
Your title is absurd. I guess the 2009 HOY is chopped liver and should have been retired then instead of a 2010 campaign. They are both great and we should be happy to go out to the track and see them compete.

I never meant to knock RA. I agree both are great horses and positive stories.

My only point is that it is easier to make a "mainstream" celebrity out of Zenyatta. People love come-from-behind winners. Throw in her hamming it up for the crowd, and the non-horseplayers I've played video for fall in love with her.

And the way Calvin was whipping on RA - I think I lost my roomie as a prospective fan after gaining her with the Z videos. She was really P.O.ed about that.

I vote that it is time for the whips to go. Even if they don't injure the horse, it still looks bad.

WeirdWilly
04-14-2010, 09:19 PM
I'd take it further: Zenyatta is better for mankind than is Rachel Alexandra.

And she can mix up a cherry berry banana smoothie that will knock your socks off! AMAZING horse! ;)

Grits
04-14-2010, 10:01 PM
Grits,
After seeing that picture of U at Saratoga with OA, I U tellgotta -- those "nice" gentlemen didn't invite you down to the rail because U wanted towatcha filly who was a goodlooka, but because U R 1 and they wanted 2 youwatcha. ;)
Let me know when you want to sing Kumbaya.:jump:

Indulto, no, no, no. It was because I'm a Southerner. Its the accent. I'm one of them. And they were being kind.

Had a Jersey girl in a tight short skirt walked up, yanking on gum . . . . .

"Hey you. Youz guys, down front. Ya got room for one more?" They wouldn't have understood a word she said.

Still it would've looked like the parting of the Red Sea. They would've trampled me too death, stepping back to get her to the rail.:lol:

There's some things one just can't compete with at my age. And . . . doesn't care to.