Another Sign The Econmy Is Rebounding

[NJ Stinks]

Don't shoot the messenger. Although I'm sure conservative talk radio and FOX News is all over this.
_________________________________________

Dow closes above 11,000 for first time in 18 months


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/ff/Alcoalogo.svg/136px-Alcoalogo.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Alcoalogo.svg) Image via Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Alcoalogo.svg)

The Dow Jones Industrial Average (http://www.tracked.com/company/dow_jones_industrial_average/) of 30 blue-chip stocks closed above 11,000 today for the first time in 18 months, crossing another important psychological barrier on the road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road) to recovery.

The Dow barely made it over the threshold, closing up less than one-tenth of 1 percent at 11,005.97, after dipping just below 11,000 moments before closing. The Dow was led upward today by aluminum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) giant Alcoa (http://alcoa.com), which reported first-quarter earnings and said it had narrowed its losses as demand for aluminum has started to pick up a bit.

The markets were also nudged upward by news earlier today from Treasury showing that the March federal deficit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt) is one-third what it was this time last year (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/economy-watch/2010/04/march_budget_deficit_nearly_on.html).

The last time the Dow closed above 11,000 was in late September 2008, when it was on its way down, not up. Since bottoming in March 2009, the Dow is up nearly 70 percent.

More at the link below:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/economy-watch/2010/04/dow_closes_above_11000_for_fir.html?hpid=topnews

[bigmack]

The private sector giveth and the public sector taketh away.

[ElKabong]

I heard (weekend radio) that unemployment in ~240 of the top ~270 metro's is up. So, which is the more significant figure?.... Higher unemployment during the past year? Or the Dow hitting an unsustainable figure & figures to drop hard?

Silly me, I shoulda known....the answer is "Health Care Reform". The entire last 12 months has been focused on that by dems in DC.

[lamboguy]

this president acts more like a republican than what bush did. he is nothing but a phony, getting elected as a democrat and acting like a republican. that's why all these consevetive republican's love this guy.

people that have to support their family's are not benefiting from a rising stock market, they are paying for it, and obama tricked them better than any republican could have.

[boxcar]

this president acts more like a republican than what bush did. he is nothing but a phony, getting elected as a democrat and acting like a republican. that's why all these consevetive republican's love this guy.

people that have to support their family's are not benefiting from a rising stock market, they are paying for it, and obama tricked them better than any republican could have.

Yeah, I don't get it: I thought BO was all about the low and middle income classes on Main St., yet we have NJ applauding him for what's going on with the rich folks on Wall St. I guess the libs are desperate to find something...anything at all -- for which to credit this guy.

Boxcar

[Track Collector]

Some folks are certainly happy with the 11,000 barrier in the stock market.

Is this great news for the average person and those among the 10%+ currently unemployed? If you are a business, what effect do expect on your bottom line this year and next year as the result of the current and future planned legislation? Will the cost of living increase for most citizens? Will taxes be higher for both individuals and businesses?

NJ Stinks, what do you think is going to happen to the unemployment rate? (I'm talking about the true rate, not the one that is adjusted to remove unemployed folks after a number of months because they are deemed to be NOT looking for employment anymore.).

More and more working folks are beginning to recognize this fraud Obama and his friends for the fruit they are bearing. This enlightenment will come to the stock market soon enough, and there will be adjustments downward.

Yea, all of us should be jumping in the streets. :rolleyes:

[ElKabong]

this president acts more like a republican than what bush did. he is nothing but a phony, getting elected as a democrat and acting like a republican. .

might be on to something...all the hullabaloo about HRC, come to find out there's "a big loophole" in the bill that allows insurance co's to continue to send rates sky-high.

PT Barnum was right.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-na-health-premiums13-2010apr13,0,7996688.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+latimes/business+(L.A.+Times+-+Business)


Public outrage over double-digit rate hikes for health insurance may have helped push President Obama's health overhaul across the finish line, but the new law does not give regulators the power to block similar increases in the future.

And now, with some major companies already moving to boost premiums and others poised to follow suit, millions of Americans may feel an unexpected jolt in the pocketbook.

Although Democrats promised greater consumer protection, the overhaul does not give the federal government broad regulatory power to prevent increases.

[lamboguy]

Yeah, I don't get it: I thought BO was all about the low and middle income classes on Main St., yet we have NJ applauding him for what's going on with the rich folks on Wall St. I guess the libs are desperate to find something...anything at all -- for which to credit this guy.

Boxcar
all the conservetive republican bankers i know love this guy. the guys running big business'slove this guy, you can't fool me, he is another conservetive republican that claims to be a liberal.


i don't like him, and i didn't like bush either, a matter of fact i don't like many politions although i have to admit that sarah palin and michelle bachman impress me alot.

[NJ Stinks]

In September 2009 American workers had $3.9 trillion in 401(k)'s. While I cannot predict which way the stock market will go down the road, there is no getting around the fact that the DOW is up 70% from 13 months ago.

I assume if the DOW was down 70% from March 2009, we would be beaten over the head with it daily by FOX and friends. Anybody disagree with that? :rolleyes:

[lamboguy]

might be on to something...all the hullabaloo about HRC, come to find out there's "a big loophole" in the bill that allows insurance co's to continue to send rates sky-high.

PT Barnum was right.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-na-health-premiums13-2010apr13,0,7996688.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+latimes/business+(L.A.+Times+-+Business)


Public outrage over double-digit rate hikes for health insurance may have helped push President Obama's health overhaul across the finish line, but the new law does not give regulators the power to block similar increases in the future.

And now, with some major companies already moving to boost premiums and others poised to follow suit, millions of Americans may feel an unexpected jolt in the pocketbook.

Although Democrats promised greater consumer protection, the overhaul does not give the federal government broad regulatory power to prevent increases.no kidding, somebody figured this monstrosity out. someone gave me this line about how great a business plan this health insurance bill is, when you don't pay they put you in jail. can't beat it can you. samething like income taxes, they steal your money give it to their friends and if you don't pay you go away.

[lamboguy]

In September 2009 American workers had $3.9 trillion in 401(k)'s. While I cannot predict which way the stock market will go down the road, there is no getting around the fact that the DOW is up 70% from 13 months ago.

I assume if the DOW was down 70% from March 2009, we would be beaten over the head with it daily by FOX and friends. Anybody disagree with that? :rolleyes:
the job of the market is to take the most amount of money away from the most amount of people in the shortest amount of time.

[ElKabong]

In September 2009 American workers had $3.9 trillion in 401(k)'s. While I cannot predict which way the stock market will go down the road, there is no getting around the fact that the DOW is up 70% from 13 months ago.

I assume if the DOW was down 70% from March 2009, we would be beaten over the head with it daily by FOX and friends. Anybody disagree with that? :rolleyes:

NJ,

You and I see this thing differently. You are looking at it from a 12 month timeline. I'm looking at it years and decades ahead. Somene here earlier mentioned the latest run on the dow was "built on a foundation of sand". There's no real sustaining energy working in America's business. Eventually this thing declines, likely within 9 months.

And the fall will be as hard as 2 yrs ago, many are predicting.

If we had a dynamic economy working I'd be optimistic, but that's not happening. Unemployment has soared, isn't going back to 2005 levels anytime soon. With 0bama doing much to hurt small businesses, I don't see things getting better for us.

It's not 0bama bashing. It's being realistic and seeing things as they are.

[boxcar]

In September 2009 American workers had $3.9 trillion in 401(k)'s. While I cannot predict which way the stock market will go down the road, there is no getting around the fact that the DOW is up 70% from 13 months ago.

I assume if the DOW was down 70% from March 2009, we would be beaten over the head with it daily by FOX and friends. Anybody disagree with that? :rolleyes:

Ahh...how we sing a different tune when it's convenient. Now, Wall St. is all about "American workers"? Not so much about the evil and greedy rich, anymore? Not so much about the money-loving, money-hungry rich investors who are in bed with all those Big, Greedy Evil Corporations whose mega-rich, grossly overpaid CEOs are always out to screw the American workers every way possible?

No, permit to tell you what tune you'd be singing if the market was down 70%: You'd be telling us that the greedy fat cats on Wall St. and Big Biz are getting what they deserve because they made all their filthy lucre off the backs of the poor! You'd be saying, Truly there is a God in heaven who is just because he's punishing these evil rich people! That's the tune you'd be singing, Mr. NJ.

Boxcar

[ElKabong]

Yet more proof the economy is turning the corner....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/13/personal-income-falls-32-during-obamas-15-months/

Real personal income for Americans - excluding government payouts such as Social Security - has fallen by 3.2 percent since President Obama took office in January 2009, according to the Commerce Department's Bureau of Economic Analysis.[/SIZE]

For comparison, real personal income during the first 15 months in office for President George W. Bush, who inherited a milder recession from his predecessor, dropped 0.4 percent. Income excluding government payouts increased 12.7 percent during Mr. Bush's eight years in office.

"This is hardly surprising," said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, an economist and former director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. "Under President Obama, only federal spending is going up; jobs, business startups, and incomes are all down. It is proof that the government can't spend its way to prosperity."

[Robert Goren]

There is one thing for sure sometime in the next 7-8 years the stock market will fall at least 20% from it high. It always have in any 8 year period. The market was so low when Obama came in that it has almost got to be higher when he leaves. You can talk about tax rates or what ever, but the real drag on the economy will the rising cost of oil. That the way it going to be until we get gas burning cars off the road. I know some of you will say to drill for more oil, but we control so little of the reserves and actually don't use that much that we can do very little about it. We need to find a way that not only America but the rest of the world to cut usage to almost none. That way we don't have to hold hands with an Arab king. JMO

[boxcar]

There is one thing for sure sometime in the next 7-8 years the stock market will fall at least 20% from it high. It always have in any 8 year period. The market was so low when Obama came in that it has almost got to be higher when he leaves. You can talk about tax rates or what ever, but the real drag on the economy will the rising cost of oil. That the way it going to be until we get gas burning cars off the road. I know some of you will say to drill for more oil, but we control so little of the reserves and actually don't use that much that we can do very little about it. We need to find a way that not only America but the rest of the world to cut usage to almost none. That way we don't have to hold hands with an Arab king. JMO

You need to keep up better with the news. Haven't you heard that the Transportation Secy said that motorists will no longer be favored in the Department's future policy decisions? He's now in bed with [b]bicyclists/b]. Start working on yours and getting it in riding shape, buddy, 'cause that sucker doesn't burn any gas! (Welcome to third world Amerika!)

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

In this part of the country except for a month in the spring and another in the fall the weather doesn't allow for bikes, but we still have bike paths and even worse bike lanes in our streets. The bad news for bikers is that the streets are full of potholes that are so big that they would eat most bikes. The really good news is that are so big that the motorcyclists aren't even out. There are very few things I hate more than motorcycles. Here I am, wondering off topic again, sorry.

[NJ Stinks]

No, permit to tell you what tune you'd be singing if the market was down 70%: You'd be telling us that the greedy fat cats on Wall St. and Big Biz are getting what they deserve because they made all their filthy lucre off the backs of the poor! You'd be saying, Truly there is a God in heaven who is just because he's punishing these evil rich people! That's the tune you'd be singing, Mr. NJ.

Boxcar

With your permission, Boxcar, I'd like to copy and paste the above and save it for a rainy day. :p

[bigmack]

In September 2009 American workers had $3.9 trillion in 401(k)'s. While I cannot predict which way the stock market will go down the road, there is no getting around the fact that the DOW is up 70% from 13 months ago.

That smacks of another source, he'p me out!

[Robert Goren]

That smacks of another source, he'p me out! actually 68.1%
http://www.kansascity.com/2010/04/12/1873256/dow-closes-above-11000-for-first.html

[BlueShoe]

You can't fool me, he is another conservetive republican that claims to be a liberal.
S-u-r-e he is. And I am really Gaius Julius Caesar who claims to be a horseplayer.

[Robert Goren]

I have known several "small" bankers. They may give money to both sides, but they all vote the same way every time and they really do not make it a secret.

[DJofSD]

Don't shoot the messenger. Although I'm sure conservative talk radio and FOX News is all over this.
_________________________________________

Dow closes above 11,000 for first time in 18 months


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/ff/Alcoalogo.svg/136px-Alcoalogo.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Alcoalogo.svg) Image via Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Alcoalogo.svg)

The Dow Jones Industrial Average (http://www.tracked.com/company/dow_jones_industrial_average/) of 30 blue-chip stocks closed above 11,000 today for the first time in 18 months, crossing another important psychological barrier on the road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road) to recovery.

The Dow barely made it over the threshold, closing up less than one-tenth of 1 percent at 11,005.97, after dipping just below 11,000 moments before closing. The Dow was led upward today by aluminum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) giant Alcoa (http://alcoa.com), which reported first-quarter earnings and said it had narrowed its losses as demand for aluminum has started to pick up a bit.

The markets were also nudged upward by news earlier today from Treasury showing that the March federal deficit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt) is one-third what it was this time last year (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/economy-watch/2010/04/march_budget_deficit_nearly_on.html).

The last time the Dow closed above 11,000 was in late September 2008, when it was on its way down, not up. Since bottoming in March 2009, the Dow is up nearly 70 percent.

More at the link below:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/economy-watch/2010/04/dow_closes_above_11000_for_fir.html?hpid=topnews


Let's see what happens after earnings have been reported.

[ArlJim78]

Let's see what happens after earnings have been reported.
alcoa (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-13/u-s-stocks-decline-alcoa-drops-after-sales-trail-estimates.html) already reported and the news wasn't good. they showed a significant drop in revenue from the year ago period. thats hard to figure if we're supposed to be in a recovery.
__________________________________________________ ________

April 13 (Bloomberg) -- Most U.S. stocks fell a day after the Dow Jones Industrial Average closed above 11,000 for the first time since September 2008 as Alcoa Inc. posted lower-than- estimated sales and UBS AG advised selling regional bank shares.

Alcoa dropped 2.2 percent to $14.25. The metal producer reported quarterly sales of $4.89 billion, missing the $5.23 billion average estimate of eight analysts surveyed by Bloomberg. UBS AG downgraded the stock to “neutral” from “buy” and cut its price estimate to $16 from $17.

[DJofSD]

I should have been more clear. I meant earning season as a whole, not just AA.

[ArlJim78]

I knew that, but I thought I'd throw Alcoa out there because they are first to report.

[DJofSD]

As I heard stated on FM yesterday: AA always has some kind of exuse or crisis.

Oh ya, and Gartman was monitoring the CC. He said it was boring. Maybe something happened after he had his cameo report.

[ddog]

Guys,

I hope you all retire with a vast fortune in your "account", but I am not "banking" :D on it.

Nj- you really can't be serious with this economy is better and backing that up with the DOW, as anyone would know , those have little to do with one another.

Also, do you have any idea wht the amount of liquidity injected has been in the last few years?

If that much was injected and NOTHING "went up" then the patient was/is dead.

Look, you can track the PRIVATE debt across the "recoveries" in the last 30-40 years. You will find a very sober FACT, we never have increased revenue to support this load and the load never goes down. We used debt to substitute for incomes rising across the society.

Now we are at the point where the debt issued is at best treading water.

This is nothing but a larger case of blowing bubbles to try to socialize the private gains of a few with the debt load of the many.


It won't work, the math will win out.

[ddog]

Nj

Still time to ramp up- check out Ambac - loads of loot to make there I am sure.

sadly the underlying is worth NOTHING!!!

Great market ya got there. All the vol is in stocks with not much if any economic sense left in them.

May as well be trading baseball cards. Better shot of holding value than most of the vol trading these days!
:lol: :lol:

[NJ Stinks]

Nj- you really can't be serious with this economy is better and backing that up with the DOW, as anyone would know , those have little to do with one another.



Well, Ddog, I can't say I'm really being serious by pointing to the DOW but I will say this. If you look at the thread titles here in Off Topic, it's one Obama/Dem bash after another. I consider it my civic duty to stem the tide once in a while. This particular story had the kind of legs that were guaranteed to provoke. :)

[boxcar]

Well, Ddog, I can't say I'm really being serious by pointing to the DOW but I will say this. If you look at the thread titles here in Off Topic, it's one Obama/Dem bash after another. I consider it my civic duty to stem the tide once in a while. This particular story had the kind of legs that were guaranteed to provoke. :)

Now, the story was dead from the waist down. (So much for good "legs".) As far as thread author he was dead from the....(well, I'm sure you get my drift). So, between story and auther, all was DOA.

Boxcar

[skate]

I heard (weekend radio) that unemployment in ~240 of the top ~270 metro's is up. So, which is the more significant figure?.... Higher unemployment during the past year? Or the Dow hitting an unsustainable figure & figures to drop hard?

Silly me, I shoulda known....the answer is "Health Care Reform". The entire last 12 months has been focused on that by dems in DC.


Welp, if sales are up (they are) and employment is down (it is), then where would the profit go, up or down?

And and and with health care going up (tis) it becomes cheaper to have fewer emp. that agree to increase productivity due to tight employment levil.

Should last about 12 monts.:kiss:

[PaceAdvantage]

Speaking of the market, anyone notice how horrible the volume has been lately on these up days? The few recent down days we've had the last number of weeks, the volume on those days has been higher than any of the up days during the same period of time.

Volume doesn't always tell the story, but I think it's pretty telling in this case, especially when contrasted with down days...

This recent leg-up that started in mid-February smells very weak to me...

[hcap]

Speaking of the market, anyone notice how horrible the volume has been lately on these up days? The few recent down days we've had the last number of weeks, the volume on those days has been higher than any of the up days during the same period of time.

Volume doesn't always tell the story, but I think it's pretty telling in this case, especially when contrasted with down days...

This recent leg-up that started in mid-February smells very weak to me...
When Obama took over everyone here thought the market would drop much much further than where bush had left it.
I seem to remember discussing this with Tom. He forecasted well below 5000.

The market now at 11,000 plus was never in the cards for the anti-Obama cadre here. I wonder what other dogma is going to fall
into rightie never never land?

[PaceAdvantage]

When Obama took over everyone here thought the market would drop much much further than where bush had left it.
I seem to remember discussing this with Tom. He forecasted well below 5000.

The market now at 11,000 plus was never in the cards for the anti-Obama cadre here. I wonder what other dogma is going to fall
into rightie never never land?Since you addressed this to my reply, can you tell me what prediction I made, if any? I'm pretty sure I wasn't posting that the market would drop much much further.

[hcap]

Being a subversive/socialist/Saul Alinsky/ Tawana Brawley/Card Carrying Lib, I just thought considering all the ant-Obama stuff here, I would contrast Obama, Bush, and the the wrongness of this board in general.

Most of the board was way wrong back then.
You just refused to recognize just how dismal the economy really was under junior

[delayjf]

You just refused to recognize just how dismal the economy really was under junior

Had we listened to W back in 03 and again in 05 we most likely would not be in this mess and Obama probably would not have been elected.

[ElKabong]

Being a subversive/socialist/Saul Alinsky/ Tawana Brawley/Card Carrying Lib,

And "face painted little girl". Don't forget face painted little girl

:)

Check it out in a year from now. Right now we're in the bottom of the 3rd inning and the starter has already thrown 83 pitches. Darker days are ahead.

[Valuist]

Let's see where the market is at the end of 2011. Many (myself included) feel the real pain won't start until late this year, as the looming expiration of tax cuts becomes a reality for many. The "recovery" has been very jobless, and Wall Street and the real economy have never been more divergent.

[lamboguy]

Speaking of the market, anyone notice how horrible the volume has been lately on these up days? The few recent down days we've had the last number of weeks, the volume on those days has been higher than any of the up days during the same period of time.

Volume doesn't always tell the story, but I think it's pretty telling in this case, especially when contrasted with down days...

This recent leg-up that started in mid-February smells very weak to me...
sometimes things are very misleading. example 1. dollar index is comprised of the euro, pound, swedish currency, swiss franc and the yen, all weak currencies right now if you read the news. not included in the dollar index are very strong currencies such as australian and canadien dollar's, russian rubels, indian currency, brazil and lots of places in africa and 5 or 6 strong ones in asia. so as you can see the strong buck is a fakeout to the nines.

as far as volume goes i always thought the same way as you. but this could very easily mean that in broad daylight the market is going way up while us currency is going way down even though it looks like its going up. even if the dow goes to 15k while the currency depreciates the up move don't mean a bloody thing.

if you have any retirement money i would strongly suggest that you invest in physical hard assets such as gold or platinum. and i really don't mean paper gold.

i could be completly wrong, but the way i have grown up i have learned that things always can get worse, and those that tell don't know and those that know don't tell.

[Robert Goren]

Or it could mean that some people think that the recession is about over and willing to put their money where there mouth is. If you don't the economy is recovering, sell short. You will have plenty of takers. JMO

[hcap]

And "face painted little girl". Don't forget face painted little girl

:)


Thankyou Kabong. BTW, how is baba looey?
Your faithful sidekick?

http://www.suprmchaos.com/quickdraw2_tip.jpg

And how are those guitar lessons coming?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hfirdv34n7A/ShvJqc3rY5I/AAAAAAAAAxA/Lv9PMDyGXEw/s200/EL+KABONG+STRIKES.JPG

[ddog]

"the vol" doesn't mean much anymore.imo.

As to the buy/sell - who is selling - you know if there is a buyer there is usually a seller.

I wonder who those sellers are. Check it out for you lonesome.


I will say(no big news of course) that the indicators are blinking red across the board.

However, we have never seen , imo, such out and out fraud and balance sheet shenanigans as in the last several years.

The gvt has actually mandated false accounting be the norm.

In that environment until the cash flow catches up with you,((it ALWAYS does), anything is possible.

Rally on dudes!!!

I have monetized into oil/gold/some grains. Out of the paper at all costs.

Thank you buyers.


Now I am off to "vist" a couple of IRS offices and other mayhem and the weather is beautiful. :jump:

[JustRalph]

Thankyou Kabong. BTW, how is baba looey?
Your faithful sidekick?

http://www.suprmchaos.com/quickdraw2_tip.jpg

And how are those guitar lessons coming?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hfirdv34n7A/ShvJqc3rY5I/AAAAAAAAAxA/Lv9PMDyGXEw/s200/EL+KABONG+STRIKES.JPG

why are you here ?

[RaceBookJoe]

"the vol" doesn't mean much anymore.imo.

As to the buy/sell - who is selling - you know if there is a buyer there is usually a seller.

I wonder who those sellers are. Check it out for you lonesome.


I will say(no big news of course) that the indicators are blinking red across the board.

However, we have never seen , imo, such out and out fraud and balance sheet shenanigans as in the last several years.

The gvt has actually mandated false accounting be the norm.

In that environment until the cash flow catches up with you,((it ALWAYS does), anything is possible.

Rally on dudes!!!

I have monetized into oil/gold/some grains. Out of the paper at all costs.

Thank you buyers.


Now I am off to "vist" a couple of IRS offices and other mayhem and the weather is beautiful. :jump:

You are right and wrong. You are right in that low or high, the market is just screaming higher. Wrong in that it doesnt matter, and heres why from my way point of view. Much of the volume is short-term trading and arbitrage...not from investors. So to me, the low volume is like you say, "flashing red" , along with a few other things that i bet we think the same on.

Now volume doesnt matter much as long as prices are rising, which could be for quite some time. Here's the problem....when the market decides its time to correct, there is a very god change that there will be less liquidity on the way down, which most likely will make the fall even harder. Anyone invested in the market better have stop losses/trailing stops set. rbj

[hcap]

why are you here ?
To make sure an occasional fact is included.

Kabong commented on my avatar. I commented on his.

[46zilzal]

To make sure an occasional fact is included.

Kabong commented on my avatar. I commented on his.
they are looking for that old stand by incestuous amplification so that thier points of view never have dissension.

[PaceAdvantage]

they are looking for that old stand by incestuous amplification so that thier points of view never have dissension.Wow man. You just blew my fragile mind.....

[PaceAdvantage]

Speaking of the market, anyone notice how horrible the volume has been lately on these up days? The few recent down days we've had the last number of weeks, the volume on those days has been higher than any of the up days during the same period of time.

Volume doesn't always tell the story, but I think it's pretty telling in this case, especially when contrasted with down days...

This recent leg-up that started in mid-February smells very weak to me...I was actually looking at the trading calendar as I wrote the above post a few days ago...I was looking for something that might possibly shock the market...but didn't see anything coming up for the week that just ended that would have the right impact...I guess we got what I was looking for today in the unexpected announcement from the SEC regarding GS.

Now we'll see if it has any staying power...volume today was tremendous...about on par with the day that kicked off the recent leg up back on February 5.

[Tom]

To make sure an occasional fact is included.



When do you start?

[boxcar]

When do you start?

Actually, we could all use a reprieve from his "facts".

Boxcar

[skate]

When Obama took over everyone here thought the market would drop much much further than where bush had left it.
I seem to remember discussing this with Tom. He forecasted well below 5000.

The market now at 11,000 plus was never in the cards for the anti-Obama cadre here. I wonder what other dogma is going to fall
into rightie never never land?


Da, how bout dis doggyma?

The Market took a crash from 2000 to 2002, lost 8 Trillion.

Nas, went from 5132, in 2000.
Nas, went to 1105, in 2002.

AND and and not one derogatoryness from "the Man" UncleGeorge, towards the fishbelliebill Adminiistration.


Class;)

Rebound babe.

[RaceBookJoe]

Da, how bout dis doggyma?

The Market took a crash from 2000 to 2002, lost 8 Trillion.

Nas, went from 5132, in 2000.
Nas, went to 1105, in 2002.

AND and and not one derogatoryness from "the Man" UncleGeorge, towards the fishbelliebill Adminiistration.


Class;)

Rebound babe.

And it rose to 14,000. The past year has been a nice upmove, especially if you only look at a 1yr chart. Look at a 5yr or 10 yr chart, and to a technician this looks like a typical 50% retracement. Now the $64,000...where do we go from here?? rbj

[hcap]

Jobs.......



http://www.motherjones.com/files/images/Blog_Jobs_April_2010_0.jpg

[lamboguy]

i have no idea what the hell jobs mean, if those numbers are real or fake.


what i do know is that the s+p lost over 100 points in a week, it looks like its falling alot further to me.

there were a few things that went opposite the market trend though, and 2 of them that i saw was the price of gold and gold stocks, and anything that is associated with guns and defense.

for my whole life i have watched politions and leaders say lots of things, sometimes they tell the truth and other times their statements are misleading, but what i do know is that the markets speak to reality. remember the market is alway's the final arbitrator no matter what someone says.

[Tom]

Jobs.......





Is there a point here?
Most new jobs are either temporary or in the government. And the NET jobs metric is still way down. How many $65,000 jobs have been replace wih $15,000 jobs?

Come on, is the best you have? An unsourced biased chart? :lol::lol::lol:

[RaceBookJoe]

Is there a point here?
Most new jobs are either temporary or in the government. And the NET jobs metric is still way down. How many $65,000 jobs have been replace wih $15,000 jobs?

Come on, is the best you have? An unsourced biased chart? :lol::lol::lol:

Dont forget, even with that "job creation" he unemployment number went UP. rbj

[ArlJim78]

JOBS!!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_orkXxp0bhEA/S-RP3pvoKmI/AAAAAAAAdKg/Wq_4F663t8E/s1600/100507-unemp.jpg

[Robert Goren]

27 monthes? Obama has only been president for 15.;)

[lamboguy]

this has to be a joke. rember this figures don't lie but liars figure.

the bear can claw your heat out while the bull can run you over

[fast4522]

Does it matter how many months, in November he will not be the Bees knees and will be referred to as no legs with the ears. If he is good for your sector or you could care less about a mans integrity to vote for him do you really feel your in the majority?

[Tom]

27 monthes? Obama has only been president for 15.;)

Of all 57 states? :lol:

He's not a numbers kind of guy.

[boxcar]

Of all 57 states? :lol:

He's not a numbers kind of guy.

But we conservatives are ever so lucky because it's only select varieties in each state!

Boxcar

[ElKabong]

The unemployment rate went up, and Tawana is posting sunshine numbers. Reality sucks if you're a liberal these days.

Also sucks when you're out of work. I feel for those folks. Our economy needed attention, and this administration spent its first 13 months locked in on a healthcare plan that is looking worse and worse as more details come out.

[jognlope]

For those 10% wall street doesn't matter. First it was about $40 billion of stimulus money that was paid back from bailed out banks that was going to go to small banks to ease up credit to small business, then somehow it was just $12 billion or so...

[JustRalph]

when Bush created a job it was called a "Mcjob"

When Barack creates the same job.........he is the great savior....... :bang:

Btw, while checking thru some old posts........i saw this one

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=88758&postcount=11


Check out the last two lines............... :lol:

[Buckeye]

The unemployment rate went up, and Tawana is posting sunshine numbers. Reality sucks if you're a liberal these days.

Also sucks when you're out of work. I feel for those folks. Our economy needed attention, and this administration spent its first 13 months locked in on a healthcare plan that is looking worse and worse as more details come out.

Exactly, and that's because Obama and his administration don't particularly know how to solve the problem. instead They obfuscate. Nice 25 cent word. Only cost me $250,000 to learn it.

[JustRalph]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8296659

[RaceBookJoe]

The unemployment rate went up, and Tawana is posting sunshine numbers. Reality sucks if you're a liberal these days.

Also sucks when you're out of work. I feel for those folks. Our economy needed attention, and this administration spent its first 13 months locked in on a healthcare plan that is looking worse and worse as more details come out.

Dont forget to add another $8B for Greece. Yesterday I heard them trying to spin the unemployment rate going up by saying it was because there were more people entering the workforce. Now while that may be true, to me it seems like it will make it that much tougher to actually get a job, if there happen to be any...simple supply/demand. rbj

[boxcar]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8296659

And we haven't see anything. Wait until Cap and Trade passes. That's when we'll hear speeches every other day about how true patriots (i.e. Americans) would be more than willing to make the necessary sacrifices for their country. Elitists excel at preaching this kind of stuff to others, while living high and mighty themselves. (For example, I heard Gore just bought another huge house, which is probably not "eco-friendly" :rolleyes: .)

Boxcar

[hcap]

The unemployment rate went up, and Tawana is posting sunshine numbers. Reality sucks if you're a liberal these days.

Also sucks when you're out of work. I feel for those folks. Our economy needed attention, and this administration spent its first 13 months locked in on a healthcare plan that is looking worse and worse as more details come out.

Tawana here. A minor detail not allowed in rightie lala land

"Employers added significantly more jobs to payrolls in April, according to a government report, another sign the recovery in the U.S. economy is taking hold.

There was a net gain of 290,000 jobs in the month, up from a revised 230,000 jobs added in March. It was the largest number of jobs added to the labor force since March 2006. With revisions in March and February, there have been a gain of 573,000 jobs since the start of the year."

http://www.motherjones.com/files/images/Blog_Jobs_April_2010_0.jpg


Compare that to the last months of GWBush
Minus over 1,000,000

[hcap]

http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/07/news/economy/jobs_april/index.htm

But the gains went far beyond that one-time Census boost, as private sector employers added 231,000 jobs. And the gains were broad based, as nearly two-thirds of industries across the private sector added jobs rather than cutting staff

Manufacturing did exceptionally well, adding 44,000 jobs, the biggest one-month gain in the sector since August 1998. Construction added 14,000 jobs, the second straight month of gains after nearly three years of uninterrupted job losses in that battered sector.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/2010/05/07/news/economy/jobs_april/chart_job_losses_050710.top.gif

[Buckeye]

too little too late and PARK YOUR SUV. Oh no, you still want to drive it? The problem with THE United States economy is a two part situation. Too many taxes and too much success. Ever hear about how successful the USA has been? Fortunately the situation is not fatal. The USA will continue to Rule the World forever in my opinion based upon the principles only we embrace: Liberty, Opportunity, and Equality.

[Valuist]

And we haven't see anything. Wait until Cap and Trade passes. That's when we'll hear speeches every other day about how true patriots (i.e. Americans) would be more than willing to make the necessary sacrifices for their country. Elitists excel at preaching this kind of stuff to others, while living high and mighty themselves. (For example, I heard Gore just bought another huge house, which is probably not "eco-friendly" :rolleyes: .)

Boxcar

I don't think cap and trade will pass. There's even less support than there was for healthcare, which they could only pass by forcing it though.

[RaceBookJoe]

I don't think cap and trade will pass. There's even less support than there was for healthcare, which they could only pass by forcing it though.

Yeah, but how will we ever find out whats in the cap and trade bill if they dont pass it first :bang: rbj

[acorn54]

well some jobs might be coming back but they will pay lower wages than in the past. methinks this will put a damper on the economy as people will only earn enough money to buy food and pay rent and other neccessities.
the wall street journal ran an article that said one in five men between ages 25 and 54 are out of work, so it will take a really large rise in new jobs to get back to where we were at only five percent unemployment.
personally i think high unemployment is here to stay. can't really see very large numbers of jobs coming back.

[Tom]

This is the change Obama talks about. This is the Amerika the left wants. Everyone totally dependent on the government.

Does anyone out here honestly believe Obama want prosperity for anyone but himself?

[acorn54]

This is the change Obama talks about. This is the Amerika the left wants. Everyone totally dependent on the government.

Does anyone out here honestly believe Obama want prosperity for anyone but himself?

that is where we are headed, most people in some way dependent on the government, according to the tax foundation, the oldest non-profit think tank.
they say in five years seventy percent of americans will be getting some kind of help from the government. this fact reflects the fact that most people's jobs are not going to bring in enough money to pay the bills.

[NJ Stinks]

Does anyone out here honestly believe Obama want prosperity for anyone but himself?

Yea. I do.

[skate]

This is the change Obama talks about. This is the Amerika the left wants. Everyone totally dependent on the government.

Does anyone out here honestly believe Obama want prosperity for anyone but himself?


with limited risk, they'll get left in the dust.


even if the BO does want prosperity:eek:


dust is building

[Buckeye]

that is where we are headed, most people in some way dependent on the government, according to the tax foundation, the oldest non-profit think tank.
they say in five years seventy percent of americans will be getting some kind of help from the government. this fact reflects the fact that most people's jobs are not going to bring in enough money to pay the bills.

Is this supposed to be something new? Whoever "they are" got it right. Park your SUV clown. Then sell your freakin house to the highest bidder. What a joke. Then get back to work and EARN your keep.

[acorn54]

Is this supposed to be something new? Whoever "they are" got it right. Park your SUV clown. Then sell your freakin house to the highest bidder. What a joke. Then get back to work and EARN your keep.
well most people have kids that they have to provide shelter,food, clothes.
so if they sell their house you will have to provide housing of some sort for them, either the taxpayer picking up the tab or the parents working and providing as much as they can with assistance from the government.
i think this topic is headed towards a "you can afford to live on the wages that the employers provide"
the reality is that most people will need some assistance regardless of their living conditions.

[newtothegame]

well most people have kids that they have to provide shelter,food, clothes.
so if they sell their house you will have to provide housing of some sort for them, either the taxpayer picking up the tab or the parents working and providing as much as they can with assistance from the government.
i think this topic is headed towards a "you can afford to live on the wages that the employers provide"
the reality is that most people will need some assistance regardless of their living conditions.

I do agree that this statement is true......BUT, you have to ask yourself how those people got in that boat. We, as a nation need to stop trying to put bandaid fixes on wide open wounds and get to the root of the problems and attempt to fix those problems.
A good example would be the recent news coming out of AZ....Lawmakers wish to provide drug assistance and rehab programs. Why would they not try to make a major push to stop the drug flow into AZ?
The list is long and many of problems which in an effort to fix, they never address the REAL underlying problem.
I know I know...before I get to far...those on the left will quickly point out how "employers should pay more". As a kid, our household had ONE t.v. I had a radio in my bedroom. My parents refused to buy a car...number one due to cost intially..and secondly...upkeep cost. We used public transportation. We rarely ate out...maybe once a month if we were lucky. My mom could stretch fifty dollars a week at the grocery. We never went hungry....the point is that we also did NOT have any credit cards that I could remember seeing. No "extras" such as computers....swimming pools...etc etc.
My parents never used government assistance or public "aid".
I guess it boils down to living within your means!!!

[acorn54]

I guess it boils down to living within your means!!![/QUOTE]
i agree that people today live way to high on the hog. i don't know what the answer is. on the one hand the leaders call for consumer spending, yet in the same breath we hear about the financial mess we are in. maybe in the past thirty years or so we have evovled where we can not have a better life for the next generation.
the next generation will have to have a lower standard of living methinks.

[Lefty]

I just heard that we now have 41% of the people on foodstamps.
doesn't sound like a good economy to me.

[fast4522]

The McGovernics have always felt this was the way to keep people in line. Class warfare has always been the favorite tool. Just exactly who do you think was behind Jimmy Carter. The very same same machine that got BO elected. Nothing good will ever come from these people because its a sellout. It is all about money and wealth redistribution where the the rich will never pay (outside interests world bank & Bilderberg Group), the poor can never pay, and everyone else is the only ones made to pay (you and I). The sell is only those making over 250K will be taxed for this or that when the fact is the taxes all down the line (everything transported by rail & truck) will be increased which hits the lowest earners all the way across middle class to suck the country dry. Its not about low cost regions getting our jobs as much as it is filtering the money to the Bilderberg group who want BO and the Congress to pass Cap and Trade. To line the pockets of the same group in banks not in our country. Food Stamps 41% right now I doubt it, but the underpinnings for other metrics that are just as disturbing are right now.

[Valuist]

All you need to see is the rising volatility index (VIX) and soaring price of gold to know this economy is far from healthy.

[Buckeye]

Oh no say it ain't so and eat a peach. Like I said-- This Economy (I Majored in Economics at the University of Pennsylvania and graduated therefrom with honors) is severely burdened by taxes and lack of leadership. The People made a stupid choice for change in the wrong direction. That won't happen again.

[NJ Stinks]

I just heard that we now have 41% of the people on foodstamps.
doesn't sound like a good economy to me.

Not even close, Lefty. It's more like 12% or 1 in 8 Americans.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100507/ts_nm/us_food_usa_stamps

[Lefty]

I think you're wrong. It was about 28% in the 90's, or my info is wrong. I
suspect not.

[Lefty]

Just googled it. It says 1 in 8. Looks like I "misplaced" my facts. Good job Stinks, you're closer than I. But still too damn many.

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=624277

[cj's dad]

Not for this poor girl; reduced to wearing rags !!

[newtothegame]

Mortgage Delinquencies, Foreclosures Break Records
Wednesday, May 19, 2010
By Alan Zibel, Associated Press

Washington (AP) - The number of homeowners who missed at least one mortgage payment surged to a record in the first quarter of the year, a sign that the foreclosure crisis is far from over.

More than 10 percent of homeowners had missed at least one mortgage payment in the January-March period, the Mortgage Bankers Association said Wednesday. That number was up from 9.5 percent in the fourth quarter of last year and 9.1 percent a year earlier.

Those figures are adjusted for seasonal factors. For example, heating bills and holiday expenses tend to push up mortgage delinquencies near the end of the year. Many of those borrowers become current on their loans again by spring.

Without adjusting for seasonal factors, the delinquency numbers dropped, as they normally do from the winter to spring.

More than 4.6 percent of homeowners were in foreclosure, also a record. But that number, which is not adjusted for seasonal factors, was up only slightly from the end of last year.

Stocks slid Wednesday as investors remain concerned with the European debt crisis. The rising number of mortgages also drew some attention. The Dow Jones industrial average fell more than 160 points in early trading.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/66274

[delayjf]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100520/ap_on_bi_ge/us_economy

[ArlJim78]

Green Shoots everywhere.

[DJofSD]

Ya but even Larry is doubtful about next year.

[boxcar]

Mortgage Delinquencies, Foreclosures Break Records
Wednesday, May 19, 2010
By Alan Zibel, Associated Press

Washington (AP) - The number of homeowners who missed at least one mortgage payment surged to a record in the first quarter of the year, a sign that the foreclosure crisis is far from over.

More than 10 percent of homeowners had missed at least one mortgage payment in the January-March period, the Mortgage Bankers Association said Wednesday. That number was up from 9.5 percent in the fourth quarter of last year and 9.1 percent a year earlier.

Those figures are adjusted for seasonal factors. For example, heating bills and holiday expenses tend to push up mortgage delinquencies near the end of the year. Many of those borrowers become current on their loans again by spring.

Without adjusting for seasonal factors, the delinquency numbers dropped, as they normally do from the winter to spring.

More than 4.6 percent of homeowners were in foreclosure, also a record. But that number, which is not adjusted for seasonal factors, was up only slightly from the end of last year.

Stocks slid Wednesday as investors remain concerned with the European debt crisis. The rising number of mortgages also drew some attention. The Dow Jones industrial average fell more than 160 points in early trading.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/66274


Some guy that is in the banking/mortgage industry predicted on Rush's show yesterday that the "other shoe" will soon drop in the housing market. He claimed that currently there are a record number of very big ticket homes that are in foreclosure mode; therefore, a second housing bubble is in the making. (He was talking about homes worth 1M+.)

Rush went on to say that if this caller is right, he thinks that what could happen is that the government might take over those homes from the banks so that it can begin occupying them with low income families -- you know...the families who have some God-given right to home ownership -- the poor working families who were victimized by "white, rich, evil capitalists" who earned all their wealth on the backs of those families.

As discussed previously in another thread, God only knows how these poor families will be able to afford the upkeep on these kinds of homes. I guess another stimulus package or two might be in order so that these families can receive home maintenance subsidies -- most of which would probably be spent foolishly on things like gambling on lotteries. :rolleyes: This is the big problem with mindless, stupid social engineering schemes: Welfare/Entitlement programs don't transform people. They don't make the uneducated suddenly educated. They don't make the irresponsible into responsible members of society. They don't make underachievers into motivated producers, etc., etc. And they cannot because all these values essentially and substantially find their ground in moral values. And a corrupt government is hardly in a position to instill sound moral values into anyone.

Boxcar

[hazzardm]

Rush went on to say that if this caller is right, he thinks that what could happen is that the government might take over those homes from the banks so that it can begin occupying them with low income families -- you know...the families who have some God-given right to home ownership -- the poor working families who were victimized by "white, rich, evil capitalists" who earned all their wealth on the backs of those families.

Boxcar

Did he also try to sell you a bridge?

[boxcar]

Did he also try to sell you a bridge?

Why would you be surprised of a government takeover of those homes if the caller is right? Doesn't the state believe that everyone under the sun has a right to own a home? Don't left wing extremists believe that the "rich" are only wealthy because they have trampled on the "poor"? Does the Left ever waste a good crisis? Would not the Left see this as an opportunity to right grievous wrongs perceived, real or otherwise? Have you ever tried connecting the dots?

Boxcar

[hazzardm]

Why would you be surprised of a government takeover of those homes if the caller is right? Doesn't the state believe that everyone under the sun has a right to own a home? Don't left wing extremists believe that the "rich" are only wealthy because they have trampled on the "poor"? Does the Left ever waste a good crisis? Would not the Left see this as an opportunity to right grievous wrongs perceived, real or otherwise? Have you ever tried connecting the dots?

Boxcar

Well of course the caller is right. There IS currently a HUGE surplus of high-end homes. It's called leaving beyond your means. The price on them will drop and drop until the surplus inventory is soaked up. Same as it always works.

[boxcar]

Well of course the caller is right. There IS currently a HUGE surplus of high-end homes. It's called leaving beyond your means. The price on them will drop and drop until the surplus inventory is soaked up. Same as it always works.

But the huge surplus is due more to high unemployment. Numerous good paying white collar jobs have vanished! This largely accounts for why there are so many "high-end" homes on the market. It's tough paying a big mortgage that was previously affordable on unemployment benefits, don't you think? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[hazzardm]

But the huge surplus is due more to high unemployment. Numerous good paying white collar jobs have vanished! This largely accounts for why there are so many "high-end" homes on the market. It's tough paying a big mortgage that was previously affordable on unemployment benefits, don't you think? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

You are sounding like a socialist on this topic.

In case you forgot, it is called supply and demand. You think the public sector is the only area of business that is exceedingly fat? A lot of those good paying white collar jobs were corporate EXCESSIVE LUXURY.

[boxcar]

You are sounding like a socialist on this topic.

In case you forgot, it is called supply and demand. You think the public sector is the only area of business that is exceedingly fat? A lot of those good paying white collar jobs were corporate EXCESSIVE LUXURY.

Yeah...well...that "supply" kinda dries up when there is no "demand" generating business. :bang: :bang: Without the business to generate revenue, employees become kinda expendable. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[hazzardm]

Yeah...well...that "supply" kinda dries up when there is no "demand" generating business. :bang: :bang: Without the business to generate revenue, employees become kinda expendable. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

What do you mean no demand? Many companies are thriving while the bloated corps piss money down the drain. If some HR dude can't maintain his job and payments, so much the better for the next buyers.

[boxcar]

What do you mean no demand? Many companies are thriving while the bloated corps piss money down the drain. If some HR dude can't maintain his job and payments, so much the better for the next buyers.

Yeah, business is really booming out there in the private sector isn't it? This is why the economy is in such great shape!? This is why unemployment is so high? You really need to buy some clues...if you can afford any. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[hazzardm]

Yeah, business is really booming out there in the private sector isn't it? This is why the economy is in such great shape!? This is why unemployment is so high? You really need to buy some clues...if you can afford any. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

I've been with the same company for last 13 years, and the last three have easily been our all time best years for revenue. Maybe you are in the wrong line of work?

[hazzardm]

Yeah, business is really booming out there in the private sector isn't it? This is why the economy is in such great shape!? This is why unemployment is so high? You really need to buy some clues...if you can afford any. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

Just curious, what type of work do you do?

[ddog]

boxcar ! work???? you must be joking.everyone KNOWS :lol: he does GOD'S WORK.

[boxcar]

boxcar ! work???? you must be joking.everyone KNOWS :lol: he does GOD'S WORK.

And you forgot to add: There is no more nobler calling -- something which you did NOT KNOW!

Boxcar

[boxcar]

I've been with the same company for last 13 years, and the last three have easily been our all time best years for revenue. Maybe you are in the wrong line of work?

Everything is relevant. Sure. There are some industries that are doing fairly well; for there are always the exceptions to the general rule. Do you think the construction industry is booming? Do you think the economy right now is strong? Do you believe we're no longer in a recession?

You want a good barometer of what the economy is like? Wal-Mart which caters and markets to low income families ain't doin' so well right now! This has to mean more and more people are living hand-to-mouth, paycheck-to-paycheck. Some of the other retailers are doing "okay"...but that's mostly do to the "rich" patronizing them.

Boxcar
P.S. What I do to earn income is not relevant to this discussion. ;)

[hazzardm]

Everything is relevant. Sure. There are some industries that are doing fairly well; for there are always the exceptions to the general rule. Do you think the construction industry is booming?

No, but construction is cyclical. And the SUPPLY is too high right now.

Do you think the economy right now is strong? Do you believe we're no longer in a recession?

It may not be strong, but it is healthy. 5% unemployment means big-biz is too fat. 9-10% unemployment is healthier IMHO.


You want a good barometer of what the economy is like? Wal-Mart which caters and markets to low income families ain't doin' so well right now! This has to mean more and more people are living hand-to-mouth, paycheck-to-paycheck. Some of the other retailers are doing "okay"...but that's mostly do to the "rich" patronizing them.

If things were so bad, I would expect Wal-Mart to get bigger market share.


Boxcar

P.S. What I do to earn income is not relevant to this discussion. ;)

No it is not, I was mearly curious.


You implied that supply/demand was not currently applicable to the housing market. I think you are out of touch in that respect.

[boxcar]

No, but construction is cyclical. And the SUPPLY is too high right now.



It may not be strong, but it is healthy. 5% unemployment means big-biz is too fat. 9-10% unemployment is healthier IMHO.

Nice contradiction! Explain to me how an economy can be weak, but yet healthy! :bang: :bang: Can the human body be in a weakened state, yet still healthy? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: In healthy, robust economies, companies don't layoff people, as we see currently. The sheer volume of business demands will require an increased supply of people to process those demands.

But.. I see you're in full European socialist mold, already. When Bush was in office 5% was horrendous. But now 10% is perfectly healthy with BO at the helm. (And that fig is really a lot worse since it doesn't take into account all the people who have stopped looking!) Funny how that suddenly changed.

If things were so bad, I would expect Wal-Mart to get bigger market share.

I see my rationale completely eluded you. Good. Stay in the dark; for I perceive that you love surprises -- even shocking ones. Know this: The bad times will come upon you like a thief in the night and you'll be caught totally unprepared.


Boxcar

[Lefty]

The economy stinks and obama and his admin make it worse every day. Cap
and trade is next!

[hazzardm]

Nice contradiction! Explain to me how an economy can be weak, but yet healthy! :bang: :bang: Can the human body be in a weakened state, yet still healthy? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: In healthy, robust economies, companies don't layoff people, as we see currently. The sheer volume of business demands will require an increased supply of people to process those demands.

But.. I see you're in full European socialist mold, already. When Bush was in office 5% was horrendous. But now 10% is perfectly healthy with BO at the helm. (And that fig is really a lot worse since it doesn't take into account all the people who have stopped looking!) Funny how that suddenly changed.

Boxcar

Please show where I have stated ANY of the above.

You asked is the economy was STRONG, I said it is HEALTHY. Can you not understand the difference?

You say companies do not perform layoffs in a strong economy...
I say you have no clue what you speak of. MANY companies layoff approx 2-3% of their employees annually to rid themselves of fat, even when they are hiring other resources.

I said 5% unemployment means big-biz is bloated. If you do not believe that, then I suggest you should have studied economics more deeply.

You are coming off as very ill informed.


I see my rationale completely eluded you. Good. Stay in the dark; for I perceive that you love surprises -- even shocking ones. Know this: The bad times will come upon you like a thief in the night and you'll be caught totally unprepared.

Your rationale and parable is mindless. Your misdirection is weakness.

If you would like to be taken seriously on this matter, here is two little YES or NO questions,

Do you believe the housing market is currently not subject to supply/demand?

Do you believe Rushie's statement that the government is going to take over and house low income folks in the for-sale luxury homes?

[DJofSD]

Do you believe the housing market is currently not subject to supply/demand?

No. It is subject to available credit and the willingness of banks to loan money.

[boxcar]

Please show where I have stated ANY of the above.

You asked is the economy was STRONG, I said it is HEALTHY. Can you not understand the difference?

If I could understand the difference, I would not have accused you of tripping over yourself in a contradiction! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: You see, I do confess: My mind has a problem wrapping itself around such things. I then drew an analogy for you that you have failed to address. I asked: How can a body, for example, be in a weakened (not strong) state and yet at the same time be considered healthy? Explain that to me. Explain how a healthy state = weak state?

You say companies do not perform layoffs in a strong economy...
I say you have no clue what you speak of. MANY companies layoff approx 2-3% of their employees annually to rid themselves of fat, even when they are hiring other resources.

I didn't say that. I said that in a genuine, robust economy would be more likely for employers to hire people to process the needs of high market demands.

said 5% unemployment means big-biz is bloated. If you do not believe that, then I suggest you should have studied economics more deeply.

And I basically responded by saying that you're pulling that excuse out of your backside because when Bush was in office 5% unemployment was a terrible thing. But now with BO in office, it's a good thing? Explain that turnaround in less than 2 years! :rolleyes: Also, explain to me how it's better to have more people on the public dole than fewer! For example, Congress has once again approved of another unemployment benefits extension. This is what...the 3rd one? According to your logic, if unemployment remains virtually unchanged at the end of this year, you'd be in favor of another extension? For how long? A year? To your mind, it's preferable for people to collect benefits indefinitely, apparently!

Further, as pointed out previously, the real number -- the number behind the propagandized 10% is a lot higher because the 10% only takes into account the number of people actually looking for work. Permit me this teachable moment, so that YOU can become better informed. Just read the link below.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/34040009

What the article is saying is that in reality nearly 1 in 5 people are unemployed. Well, then...if a 17.5% U-6 rate is good (i.e. HEALTHY) according to you, then why not a 20% rate? Or why not a 25% rate?


You are coming off as very ill informed.

Try addressing the above objections because I'm waiting with bated breath to be enlightened by you. :rolleyes: And then we'll see who is "very ill informed".

Your rationale and parable is mindless. Your misdirection is weakness.

If you would like to be taken seriously on this matter, here is two little YES or NO questions,

And if you want to be taken seriously on any matter, try getting your verbs in agreement with your nouns, lest you sound like a Dumbed Down U grad.

Do you believe the housing market is currently not subject to supply/demand?

No.

Do you believe Rushie's statement that the government is going to take over abd house low income folks in the for-sale luxury homes?

Rush never said that. He presented a hypothetical response that this regime might take to a second bubble. And, yes, I do agree the scenario could possibly come to past for reasons stated earlier. I put nothing past this wicked administration.

Boxcar

[PaceAdvantage]

Speaking of the market, anyone notice how horrible the volume has been lately on these up days? The few recent down days we've had the last number of weeks, the volume on those days has been higher than any of the up days during the same period of time.

Volume doesn't always tell the story, but I think it's pretty telling in this case, especially when contrasted with down days...

This recent leg-up that started in mid-February smells very weak to me...I posted this on April 14. The S&P futures closed at 1206 on April 14. It closed at 1070 today.

We have basically lost the entire up move that started in February that I referenced above...the one I had concerns about because of the horrible volume.

Now, today, we closed significantly below the 200 day moving average on the S&P futures...not a good sign...next test will be the low that was set during that crazy 1000 point day (1056 on the S&P)...considering we're at 1068 as I type this, that test will probably come tomorrow...next stop after that will be the 1020-1040 area....allow me to redboard a beautiful short that gave its signal at the close of trading on May 12. The S&P futures closed up that day significantly, but on VERY light volume, AND it closed right below resistance (resistance being the 50 day moving average green line).

Couple the inability to close above the 50 day average that day with the low volume, and you have a very weak up day...one that could have been confidently shorted....

[hazzardm]

No. It is subject to available credit and the willingness of banks to loan money.

Good job, you got half of it right. That would be Demand. It is low.

[hazzardm]

Rush never said that. He presented a hypothetical response that this regime might take to a second bubble. And, yes, I do agree the scenario could possibly come to past for reasons stated earlier. I put nothing past this wicked administration.

Boxcar

Thank you.

[acorn54]

the economy is rebounding the title of this thread is a misnomer
the future of the employment market won't be like previous comebacks after a recession
there has been a paridigm shift in the world, and there is no going back.
yes their will be a return of some jobs but the new jobs won't be like those of years past, the pay scale will be much lower. the jobs less secure.
the tax foundation, the oldest non profit think tank, started in 1937, and highly respected, predicts that in five years seventy percent of the u.s. population will be reliant on the governments for some kind of assistance.
this reflects that fact that most jobs won't pay enough to cover all living costs.

[Lefty]

You're so right,Acorn. and that's exactly the plan obummer and his fellow socialists have for us.

[boxcar]

the economy is rebounding the title of this thread is a misnomer
the future of the employment market won't be like previous comebacks after a recession
there has been a paridigm shift in the world, and there is no going back.
yes their will be a return of some jobs but the new jobs won't be like those of years past, the pay scale will be much lower. the jobs less secure.
the tax foundation, the oldest non profit think tank, started in 1937, and highly respected, predicts that in five years seventy percent of the u.s. population will be reliant on the governments for some kind of assistance.
this reflects that fact that most jobs won't pay enough to cover all living costs.

The elitist libs will then believe they have provided the proletariat with utopia, i.e. equal outcomes.

Boxcar

[Buckeye]

But the huge surplus is due more to high unemployment. Numerous good paying white collar jobs have vanished! This largely accounts for why there are so many "high-end" homes on the market. It's tough paying a big mortgage that was previously affordable on unemployment benefits, don't you think? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

yeah 60% ain't 100%. The unemployment system is another system gone wrong. I'm unemployed and now you give me what? Scrap it.

[Buckeye]

Maybe you're just trying to "teach me" something . . .

F u then. I just got layed off.

[boxcar]

Maybe you're just trying to "teach me" something . . .

F u then. I just got layed off.

Very sorry to hear about your situation. But why in the world are you ticked at me? You have taken my remarks that were made to someone else totally out of context. How in the world did you arrive at your conclusion above when I wasn't addressing you?

Boxcar

[Buckeye]

I was attacking the 60% income replacement from unemployment, not you. Why not make it 20%? :)

I'm still working, so don't feel sorry for me. Income can come from anywhere. The idea that 60 equals 100 is what ticked me off.

[Buckeye]

People, some people, not only bought homes they could not afford, but also lost their worthless jobs to boot. Prior to that they said we can drive whatever the F we want to. Ok, now live with that. And next time you get the chance to VOTE make your decision consistent with the Principles.

[hcap]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37447476/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/

Building, manufacturing help propel recovery
Biggest increase in construction activity in almost a decade

WASHINGTON - The economic recovery gained strength on the biggest rise in construction spending in nearly a decade and the 10th straight month of expansion for the manufacturing sector.

Temporary government incentives fueled most of the construction spending increases in April. Industry spending rose 2.7 percent with gains in all major sectors, the Commerce Department said Tuesday.

In a separate report Tuesday, the Institute for Supply Management, a trade group of purchasing executives, said its manufacturing index dipped slightly in May from a nearly six-year high in April. But the 59.7 reading for May was well above the 50 level that indicates expansion.

[Black Ruby]

I'd be very interested in seeing a 50 year chart of the economy highlighting the portion that is attributable to the defense (aka offense) industry.

[Robert Goren]

People, some people, not only bought homes they could not afford, but also lost their worthless jobs to boot. Prior to that they said we can drive whatever the F we want to. Ok, now live with that. And next time you get the chance to VOTE make your decision consistent with the Principles. There was a group of people who living basically from pay check to pay check until the spring and summer of 2008. The cost of gasoline more than doubled. They need gasoline to go work, so they had to pay that. The food cost were pretty well fixed if not rising. Some thing had to give and it became the mortgage payment. It would get push back a paycheck one month, then two paychecks , etc. Then the whole thing came tumbling down. I don't think we can over estimate the sudden rise in the price of gasoline had in causing the the recession.JMO

[bigmack]

I'd be very interested in seeing a 50 year chart of the economy highlighting the portion that is attributable to the defense (aka offense) industry.
If you did it might blow your mind. That might be a good thing for you.

[BenDiesel26]

I'd be very interested in seeing a 50 year chart of the economy highlighting the portion that is attributable to the defense (aka offense) industry.

1. That is how the government was designed. See the federalist papers.

2. Defense spending is less than medicare. Now add in social security and medicaid as well.

[prospector]

There was a group of people who living basically from pay check to pay check until the spring and summer of 2008. The cost of gasoline more than doubled. They need gasoline to go work, so they had to pay that. The food cost were pretty well fixed if not rising. Some thing had to give and it became the mortgage payment. It would get push back a paycheck one month, then two paychecks , etc. Then the whole thing came tumbling down. I don't think we can over estimate the sudden rise in the price of gasoline had in causing the the recession.JMO
and food prices went up because we starting burning our food...corn additives was/is a stupid idea...

[LottaKash]

While on an errand today, I had "Rush" on the car radio, and he stated that Obammy was scheduled to give a lecture at the Carnegie Mellon Institute about the "The Economy"....and Rush said that; " That would be like Al Capone giving a lecture about the repeal of Prohibition"....:D

best,

[Lefty]

I heard that too. as usual, ElRushbo is Spot on.

[ElKabong]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37447476/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/

Building, manufacturing help propel recovery
Biggest increase in construction activity in almost a decade

WASHINGTON - The economic recovery gained strength on the biggest rise in construction spending in nearly a decade and the 10th straight month of expansion for the manufacturing sector.

Temporary government incentives fueled most of the construction spending increases in April. Industry spending rose 2.7 percent with gains in all major sectors, the Commerce Department said Tuesday.

In a separate report Tuesday, the Institute for Supply Management, a trade group of purchasing executives, said its manufacturing index dipped slightly in May from a nearly six-year high in April. But the 59.7 reading for May was well above the 50 level that indicates expansion.

There, I embolded the key phrase here... There's no "fix" to the main problems with the economy, just minor patchworking. When that rug gets pulled out it's gonna hurt.

As for the ISM #'s, a lot of companies are restocking inventories. Even the energy mining sectors are admitting as such. I wish it were a sign of mid or long term recovery, but it isn't.

[DJofSD]

I saw something briefly on CNBC earlier today about new business starts are up signicificantly. Not a surprise given the unemployment rate but it must be a positive indicator, no?

[Robert Goren]

I saw something briefly on CNBC earlier today about new business starts are up signicificantly. Not a surprise given the unemployment rate but it must be a positive indicator, no? It better than them being down. As for how good it is, that is an open question.

[Buckeye]

There was a group of people who living basically from pay check to pay check until the spring and summer of 2008. The cost of gasoline more than doubled. They need gasoline to go work, so they had to pay that. The food cost were pretty well fixed if not rising. Some thing had to give and it became the mortgage payment. It would get push back a paycheck one month, then two paychecks , etc. Then the whole thing came tumbling down. I don't think we can over estimate the sudden rise in the price of gasoline had in causing the the recession.JMO

Yes and no--
good answer, but please consider if you will, my degree in Economics. :) Gas prices went up yes, but not by that much. The problem came before that, like you said, spending everything they had, and I'll add, even MORE than they had for quite a while like they had some kind of Right to do so.

They didn't.

[Buckeye]

If you did it might blow your mind. That might be a good thing for you. Absolutely true. The Defense Industry ended the Great Depression and fueled everything else from Reagan to Bush Two.

But now "we all have Healthcare" so it's ok.

Maybe not.

[Buckeye]

The Fifty Year Chart, would NOT show solar power or Health Care powering our Economy please be advised, and if I drink smoke and gamble for the rest of my life everyday-- my life expectancy is ONLY about 2 years less, although if I drive a big SUV I can't afford and/or "own" a house I can't pay for, maybe it's 3 years less. :) So now what?

[RaceBookJoe]

Absolutely true. The Defense Industry ended the Great Depression and fueled everything else from Reagan to Bush Two.

But now "we all have Healthcare" so it's ok.

Maybe not.

In todays IBD :

Coming soon to a hospital near you....the British govt has decided that it needs to cut millions of operations because the public systm cant afford them. Thus is the future of socialized medicine. rbj

[ddog]

whatever system we have can't afford them either. Our deficit without bama care is a killer, with it, whatever that is, it will be a killer as well.



It isn't the system,it's the expectations.

People actually believe we have been paying for it all along.

:lol: :lol:

[ddog]

Absolutely true. The Defense Industry ended the Great Depression and fueled everything else from Reagan to Bush Two.

But now "we all have Healthcare" so it's ok.

Maybe not.

that's the problem with an economics education.


You would of course show in your work where the "industry" has been cut back, thus alright, maybe?

Bush 2 , big def cuts........???depression????

yeah, sure. :lol:

[Robert Goren]

Yes and no--
good answer, but please consider if you will, my degree in Economics. :) Gas prices went up yes, but not by that much. The problem came before that, like you said, spending everything they had, and I'll add, even MORE than they had for quite a while like they had some kind of Right to do so.

They didn't. You may have degree in Economics(that with a minor in marketing qualifies you for a job at servicemaster :rolleyes: ) I have degree in watching people from the school of hard knocks. The people who had the SUVs got hit vey hard. You may not like it or think it is a Right, but a lot of people did it none less.

[Buckeye]

I abso freakin love it! if that answers your question.

[Buckeye]

and by the way there ain't no "may have" about by Degree.

[Buckeye]

let's all calm down because Gasoline is still cheap (relatively). My Father greeted and spoke to Einstein on a daily basis. I'm making none of this shit up. Get the F in line.

[Buckeye]

that's the problem with an economics education.


You would of course show in your work where the "industry" has been cut back, thus alright, maybe?

Bush 2 , big def cuts........???depression????

yeah, sure. :lol:

I'll give you a "problem" with what I understand (not entirely from my Education and so on), the problem is survival.

[newtothegame]

:bang:

Foreclosures Surge in Most Big Cities as Home Crisis Spreads


Thursday, 29 Jul 2010 07:08 AM

Households across a majority of large U.S. cities received more foreclosure warnings in the first six months of this year than in the first half of 2009, new data show.

The trend is the latest sign that the nation's foreclosure crisis is worsening as homeowners battling high unemployment, slow job growth and an uneven rebound in home prices continue to fall behind on their mortgage payments.

In all, 154 out of 206 metropolitan areas with at least 200,000 residents posted an annual increase in foreclosure activity between January and June, foreclosure listing firm RealtyTrac Inc. said Thursday.

The firm tracks notices for defaults, scheduled home auctions and home repossessions — warnings that can lead up to a home eventually being lost to foreclosure.

The latest figures show the threat of foreclosures is spreading well beyond the top tier of metropolitan areas located in California, Florida, Nevada and Arizona, which have borne the brunt of the fallout from the housing crisis.

Those states saw housing values surge during the housing boom years. When the boom ended, values collapsed and foreclosures soared.

"The face of foreclosure is driven much more now by unemployment than in the past, and it's moving out from the places where we've been focusing on in the last few years," said Rick Sharga, a senior vice president at RealtyTrac. "The combination of a weak job market and a weak housing market is making it difficult in some of these areas."

The Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach metropolitan area in Florida received more foreclosure-related warnings in the first half of this year than any other, the firm said.

Florida accounted for nine of the top 20 metro areas with the highest foreclosure rates.

more at link...

http://www.moneynews.com/Headline/US-Foreclosure-Rates/2010/07/29/id/365965

[Lefty]

Biden says we're in the Bush recession.
What right when we're in the Summer Of recovery?
After the Stimulas that was supposed to fix everything?

[ArlJim78]

Foreclosures up.
consumer confidence trending down.
Manufacturing output, down.
GDP an anemic 2.4 % despite trillions in stimulus and zero cost of money.

Yes, siree it's truly recovery summer.

and with all the new taxes and regulations hitting next year, boomtimes are surely right around the corner.

[Lefty]

Yep, and the only thing the dim dems have to offer is more blame Bush. It's
time people get wise to this and I think they will.
To the voting booths!

[JustRalph]

Biden says we're in the Bush recession.
What right when we're in the Summer Of recovery?
After the Stimulas that was supposed to fix everything?

When Biden has his next stroke he will blame bush too

[newtothegame]

Sure glad you were right there NJ......:lol:

Low prices and rates can't slow fall in home sales

Low mortgage rates and prices fail to stop home sales from sinking to weakest in 15 years

Alan Zibel and J.W. Elphinstone, AP Real Estate Writers, On Tuesday August 24, 2010, 4:54 pm EDT
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Home prices in many parts of the country scream bargain, and mortgage rates haven't been this low for decades. So why are houses across the nation sitting on the market for so long?

Sales of previously occupied homes in the United States fell 27 percent in July, the weakest showing in 15 years, the National Association of Realtors said Tuesday. It was the largest monthly drop in the four decades that records have been kept.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Low-prices-and-rates-cant-apf-2949326144.html?x=0&.v=10

[hcap]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/political-economy/2010/08/cbo_says_stimulus_may_have_add.html


CBO says stimulus may have added 3.3 million jobs

By Lori Montgomery

President Obama's much-maligned economic stimulus package added as many as 3.3 million jobs to the economy during the second quarter of this year, and may have prevented the nation from lapsing back into recession, according to a report released Tuesday by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office.

In its latest quarterly assessment of the act, the CBO said the stimulus lowered the unemployment rate by between 0.7 and 1.8 percentage points during the quarter ending in June and increased the number of people employed by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million. The higher figure would come close to making good on Obama's pledge that the act would save or create as many as 3.5 million jobs by the end of this year.

The CBO said the act also increased the nation's gross domestic product by between 1.7 percent and 4.5 percent in the second quarter, indicating that the stimulus may have been the primary source of growth in the U.S. economy. The Commerce Department estimates that GDP grew 2.4 percent in the second quarter, a figure many economists expect to be revised lower in a report due out Friday.

The CBO cautioned that the the act's effects are expected to "gradually diminish during the second half of 2010 and beyond," leaving the private sector to pick up the slack in an economy that is already showing signs of deteriorating rapidly. On the bright side, the CBO revised the cost of the package downward: Originally estimated to cost $787 billion over 10 years, the stimulus was later estimated to cost $862 billion. But in the report released Tuesday, the CBO said it now expects the measure to cost only about $814 billion through 2019, with 70 percent of those costs incurred by the end of this year.

....."This new analysis from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office is further confirmation of what we've been hearing from leading economists, the nation's governors and families across the country: the Recovery Act is working to rescue the economy from eight years of failed economic policy and rebuild it even stronger than before," Vice President Biden said in a statement.

By Mike Shepard | August 24, 2010; 6:42 PM ET

[JustRalph]

Temporary fixes are just that

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/08/24/1639864/hundreds-face-unemployment-as.html

Hundreds face unemployment as temporary job subsidy ends

By John Murawski and Kirsten Valle
kvalle@charlotteobserver.com
Posted: Tuesday, Aug. 24, 2010


Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/08/24/1639864/hundreds-face-unemployment-as.html#ixzz0xd4MZKMn

Tell it to those listed in the article above

[ArlJim78]

Good luck trying to sell the stimulus as a success Joe. The line they're going with is "well things are bad but they would have been much worse" The whole jobs created or saved is phony accounting. they should call it wreckcovery.gov

[boxcar]

Good luck trying to sell the stimulus as a success Joe. The line they're going with is "well things are bad but they would have been much worse" The whole jobs created or saved is phony accounting. they should call it wreckcovery.gov

Exactly! Even the Dems aren't touting it as a big success story -- they're framing its "success" in negative terms. That says it all.

Boxcar

[fast4522]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/38831550

[Lefty]

Hcap, Would that be the very same CBO that told us that obummer's healthcare reform bill would not add to the deficit, and then when the dang thing was passed, they said it would add a trillion to the deficit? Are dems da
guys' youse is talkin about?

[Valuist]

Obama also said unemployment wouldn't go above 8%. How's that working out so far?

[newtothegame]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/political-economy/2010/08/cbo_says_stimulus_may_have_add.html


CBO says stimulus may have added 3.3 million jobs

By Lori Montgomery

President Obama's much-maligned economic stimulus package added as many as 3.3 million jobs to the economy during the second quarter of this year, and may have prevented the nation from lapsing back into recession, according to a report released Tuesday by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office.

In its latest quarterly assessment of the act, the CBO said the stimulus lowered the unemployment rate by between 0.7 and 1.8 percentage points during the quarter ending in June and increased the number of people employed by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million. The higher figure would come close to making good on Obama's pledge that the act would save or create as many as 3.5 million jobs by the end of this year.

The CBO said the act also increased the nation's gross domestic product by between 1.7 percent and 4.5 percent in the second quarter, indicating that the stimulus may have been the primary source of growth in the U.S. economy. The Commerce Department estimates that GDP grew 2.4 percent in the second quarter, a figure many economists expect to be revised lower in a report due out Friday.

The CBO cautioned that the the act's effects are expected to "gradually diminish during the second half of 2010 and beyond," leaving the private sector to pick up the slack in an economy that is already showing signs of deteriorating rapidly. On the bright side, the CBO revised the cost of the package downward: Originally estimated to cost $787 billion over 10 years, the stimulus was later estimated to cost $862 billion. But in the report released Tuesday, the CBO said it now expects the measure to cost only about $814 billion through 2019, with 70 percent of those costs incurred by the end of this year.

....."This new analysis from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office is further confirmation of what we've been hearing from leading economists, the nation's governors and families across the country: the Recovery Act is working to rescue the economy from eight years of failed economic policy and rebuild it even stronger than before," Vice President Biden said in a statement.

By Mike Shepard | August 24, 2010; 6:42 PM ET

Hey Cap'....you stimulus report your touting....has some serious issues.....:lol:
Stimulus Figures Questioned Amid Call for Economic Team Firings



Published August 25, 2010

| FoxNews.com

A leading Republican economist criticized lawmakers Wednesday for trying to hold up a new report from the budget office he used to lead as evidence that the stimulus is working.

Amid a GOP push for President Obama to fire his economic team, a Congressional Budget Office report said the stimulus package created or saved up to 3.3 million jobs and boosted the gross domestic product by up to 4.5 percent.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi pointed to the study Wednesday as proof that Democratic policies were turning the economy around and that millions of people would have been jobless if not for the Recovery Act.

But Douglas Holtz-Eakin, former CBO director, said the CBO analysis cannot be taken "at face value."

The CBO report not only gives a wide range for stimulus impact in the second quarter of 2010 -- saying between 1.4 million and 3.3 million jobs were created or saved and economic growth was somewhere between 1.7 percent and 4.5 percent -- the models used are designed to spit out positive figures, he said.

"This is repackaging previous analysis at the request of Democrats in Congress," he told Fox News. "This is based on a computer model, and with computer models you get out what you put in, and the kinds of models that the CBO uses is one where the stimulus can't fail to work."

The CBO, in the preface to the latest report, acknowledged that the numbers are based on "evidence from similar policies enacted in the past and on the results of various economic models."

Though stimulus supporters say the policy kept unemployment from getting distinctly worse, critics say it's ultimately impossible to gauge what would have happened in its absence.

The CBO gave a similar assessment in its new analysis, saying that while the office has examined "output and employment " data since the stimulus went into effect last year, "those data are not as helpful in determining (its effects) as might be supposed because isolating the effects would require knowing what path the economy would have taken in the absence of the law."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/25/stimulus-figures-questioned-amid-economic-team-firings/

[skate]

Biden says we're in the Bush recession.
What right when we're in the Summer Of recovery?
After the Stimulas that was supposed to fix everything?

love it...:lol:

[mostpost]

The US economy is in a 1930s-style Depression, Gluskin Sheff economist David Rosenberg said Tuesday.
According to their website:
Gluskin Sheff + Associates Inc. is one of Canada's pre-eminent wealth management firms serving high net worth private clients and institutional investors. ...

Surely you are not going to believe a Canadian. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[fast4522]

Very few in America believe in your party right now, or your numbers that are fuzzy at best.

[nijinski]

Lost my job a month ago after Medical Assisting in an office with multiple
Physicians. In the field over twenty years , with this practice eight years.

The trend in these types of offices appears to be the hiring of part time
employees ( no need to provide health insurance) , and students who
recently completed MA course ( entry level salary).

A friend of mine in a cardiologists office had her hours drastically reduced.
Two other other lay offs , RN's from Hackensack Hospital that I personally know.

I have never seen this in all my years in the medical field!!!!!!
I have never been on unemployment before!

Anyway I was forced to cancel my three day plans for my Travers trip as my
income just dropped 40% and the future looks like a struggle.

[dartman51]

Lost my job a month ago after Medical Assisting in an office with multiple
Physicians. In the field over twenty years , with this practice eight years.

The trend in these types of offices appears to be the hiring of part time
employees ( no need to provide health insurance) , and students who
recently completed MA course ( entry level salary).

A friend of mine in a cardiologists office had her hours drastically reduced.
Two other other lay offs , RN's from Hackensack Hospital that I personally know.

I have never seen this in all my years in the medical field!!!!!!
I have never been on unemployment before!

Anyway I was forced to cancel my three day plans for my Travers trip as my
income just dropped 40% and the future looks like a struggle.


I wish you luck finding something. I lost my job over a year and a half ago. First time on unemployment for me too. At 61, no one is interested in hiring me when there are plenty of youngsters applying for the same jobs. I went from 55k pr year to $300 pr week, thanks to the housing market collapse. Any one that claims the economy is rebounding, is either, out of touch with reality, or just lying. Unemployment figures are NOT improving, and neither is the housing market. Again, good luck in your search for employment.

[fast4522]

We have all see better days, for anyone over 50 it has been especially hard taking the chop in pay and sucking up to a new manager half your age. Everything is "we do it because we can" at all levels. The straight up like whiskey scoop is that it will get much worse before it gets better.

[Tom]

nijinski, sorry to hear - don't let it get you down - you will get past this!

Your post suggests that we are seeing the tip of the iceberg on how Obama care is going to destroy quality health care here.

Even mostie will be hard pressed to put a positive spin on this trend.

[NJ Stinks]

I am sorry to hear the news too, Nijinski. And you too, Dartman.

There is no denying that the job market is hell now.

[newtothegame]

I truly feel for those that lost jobs......
Terrible situation...hope it gets turned around!!!

[Tom]

Hey, look at the bright side, Obama is on vacation AGAIN , and buying shrimp!

[Rookies]

I truly feel for those that lost jobs......
Terrible situation...hope it gets turned around!!!

Me too.:ThmbUp:

There is no doubt that the decisions of many U.S. banks to roll the dice with the housing industry and play casino with derivatives has had a profound and prolonged effect on the American economy. But without any stimulus, things would be far, far worse, imho.

We have been more fortunate in Canada and precisely because our few huge banks played things much, more conservatively and did not put much at risk in the high risk mortgage game. As a result, we have weathered the storm.

On a personal note, my 20 something daughter, up and quit her + 50k job because she didn't like it and at the height of the recession and layoffs.:bang: :bang: She went back to school to get a marketing diploma and managed to snag a part time, apprenticeship job based on her prior experience. As the clock ticked down on her course, suddenly two jobs opened doing exactly the work she apprenticed in and loved! Hired she is, full time, with benefits and stock options again!

So hang on as best you can, all those in need. It will turn around. At the very least, the boomers are mass exiting after long careers, which should open up a swath of jobs in many fields.

[mostpost]

nijinski, sorry to hear - don't let it get you down - you will get past this!

Your post suggests that we are seeing the tip of the iceberg on how Obama care is going to destroy quality health care here.

Even mostie will be hard pressed to put a positive spin on this trend.

The situation is not good. The recovery is not happening as hoped for.
(Attention Canandaigua emergency services: someone go over to Tom's house and help him off the floor)

We agree on that. Where we are going to disagree is why it is not and what we should do to fix it.

Most indicators are better now than at the end of Bush's term. Unfortunately that is kind of like taking a guy out of the Ocean and throwing him into a swimming pool and telling him he's drier.

The Democrats need to do more of what they have been doing not less. People are working because of stimulus who would otherwise not have been working. Even the Census created jobs that, although temporary provided work. For you lovers of the Constitution, the Census is in the Constitution.

Republicans fought against the Stimulus, yet are bragging to their constuents about how much money they got for their districts. Republicans cry about the deficit, yet want to extend tax cuts which cost trillions, with no pklan to pay for them.

As for the Obama health care program little of it has been put into effect. You have no idea what the ramifications will be.

[mostpost]

The other day I was listening to the radio-Thom Hartmann I believe. He was talking about a survey in which they asked small business owners what was needed to improve the economy and their chances for having a successful business. I did not hear the whole thing, but two things stood out.
The main complaint of small business owners was that they could not get capital. Banks were not loaning money. The same banks that got billions in bailouts were refusing to do business with small businesses.
Tax cuts ranked seventh or eighth on the list of important things.

[Lefty]

mosty, tax cuts do not add to the deficit. Everytime taxes have been cut more money comes in to the treasury. EVERYTIME! So more money in the coffers does not contribute to the deficit. Stimulus spending does. Ill conceived healthcare reform does. And you want more, oh my God.

[newtothegame]

The situation is not good. The recovery is not happening as hoped for.
(Attention Canandaigua emergency services: someone go over to Tom's house and help him off the floor)

We agree on that. Where we are going to disagree is why it is not and what we should do to fix it.

Most indicators are better now than at the end of Bush's term. Unfortunately that is kind of like taking a guy out of the Ocean and throwing him into a swimming pool and telling him he's drier.

The Democrats need to do more of what they have been doing not less. People are working because of stimulus who would otherwise not have been working. Even the Census created jobs that, although temporary provided work. For you lovers of the Constitution, the Census is in the Constitution.

Republicans fought against the Stimulus, yet are bragging to their constuents about how much money they got for their districts. Republicans cry about the deficit, yet want to extend tax cuts which cost trillions, with no pklan to pay for them.

As for the Obama health care program little of it has been put into effect. You have no idea what the ramifications will be.

Whats with the jab at the constitution and the cesus being in it?? The right to be a census worker on the government dole and tax payers back isnt in it....So what's your point?

[swami13]

The situation is not good. The recovery is not happening as hoped for.
(Attention Canandaigua emergency services: someone go over to Tom's house and help him off the floor)

We agree on that. Where we are going to disagree is why it is not and what we should do to fix it.

Most indicators are better now than at the end of Bush's term. Unfortunately that is kind of like taking a guy out of the Ocean and throwing him into a swimming pool and telling him he's drier.

The Democrats need to do more of what they have been doing not less. People are working because of stimulus who would otherwise not have been working. Even the Census created jobs that, although temporary provided work. For you lovers of the Constitution, the Census is in the Constitution.

Republicans fought against the Stimulus, yet are bragging to their constuents about how much money they got for their districts. Republicans cry about the deficit, yet want to extend tax cuts which cost trillions, with no pklan to pay for them.

As for the Obama health care program little of it has been put into effect. You have no idea what the ramifications will be.



The Democrats need to do more of what they have been doing not less.

joking right?

[mostpost]

mosty, tax cuts do not add to the deficit. Everytime taxes have been cut more money comes in to the treasury. EVERYTIME! So more money in the coffers does not contribute to the deficit. Stimulus spending does. Ill conceived healthcare reform does. And you want more, oh my God.
Somebody told you that everytime taxes are cut more money comes into the treasury. Someone is lying to you. I will tell you the truth.
Since the end of World War two there have been eight years in which revenue has been smaller than in the previous year. 1945, 1946, 1955, 1958, 1983, 2001, 2002, and 2003. In 45 and 46 the top tax rate was 94% and did not change. In '55 and '58 the rate was a steady 91%.

Fast forward to the Reagan years. In 1982 the tax rate was reduced from 69.5% to 50%. Revenue in 1982 was 617,766 (millions) in 1983 it dropped to 600,562 (millions)
On to GW Bush. In 2001 the rate was cut by .5%. Revenues dropped 1.6%
In 2002 the rate was dropped another .5% Revenues fell of 6.9% from the previous year. Finally in 2003 the rate dropped 3.6%. Loss of revenue 3.6%

I won't bore you with the info I found from the teens and twenties except for this. In 1915 the tax rate was 7%. In 1918 it was 77%. Revenue went from 683 (millions) to 3645 (millions)
Here are the two tables I used to get this information:
For the tax rates:
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php
For the annual revenues:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy10/hist.html you will have to click on table 1.1

I have posted this or similar information before. You (guys) will never believe it even though it is right there in black and white, because it doesn't fit in with your preconceived notions. I read somewhere that Conservatism isn't a political system, it's a faith and as such no amount of logic and fact will sway the faithful from their beliefs

[JustRalph]

That preconceived notion is based on one thing.

The government has no right to the money. It is called theft.

A minimal tax to provide only what is enumerated in the constitution is all that is necessary. Therefore, your revenue figures mean nothing. Leaving that money with the people is what is the appropriate thing to do.

[nijinski]

Thank You , Tom , NJ , and Dartman for your kind words and Dartman I hope
things get better for you as well.

[bigmack]

I have posted this or similar information before. You (guys) will never believe it even though it is right there in black and white, because it doesn't fit in with your preconceived notions.
Taxes. You're a decades long government worker and you're here to educate us on tax structures and the benefit & detriment to the economy based on tax legislation? When does Alan Funt pop-out and tell us we're being pimped?

Come on out in the free world and make a buck. Struggle, employ, meet with bankers, make a payroll, write checks for health care, pay insurance, market, advertise, sell, scratch to make ends meet, & then tell us about taxes.

Until then, your 'cred' is sketchy.

[mostpost]

That preconceived notion is based on one thing.

The government has no right to the money. It is called theft.

A minimal tax to provide only what is enumerated in the constitution is all that is necessary. Therefore, your revenue figures mean nothing. Leaving that money with the people is what is the appropriate thing to do.
You act as if the Government is something that came down out of the sky and we had nothing to say about it. We voted for this government. At least more of us voted for it than voted against it. If you don't like it too bad. When the Republicans were in power it was because more people voted for them than voted against them. I did not like it. Too bad.

This conservative idea that government should provide only what is enumerated in the Constitution is dumb beyond belief. There is nothing in the Constitution about providing roads. Would you want to drive around the country without the interstate highway system. The Constitution says nothing about regulating airplane travel. Would you fly without the air traffic controllers. Would you go to a doctor if the government didn't license physicians and regulate their treatments. There is nothing in the Constitution about airplanes or doctors. There is nothing in the Constitution about a National Weather Service. Do you think it would be a good idea to live in New Orleans and not have hurricane warnings?

Of course all this is just another way of you ignoring the proven fact that lowering tax rates does not result in higher revenue. Keep the faith, baby.

[mostpost]

Taxes. You're a decades long government worker and you're here to educate us on tax structures and the benefit & detriment to the economy based on tax legislation? When does Alan Funt pop-out and tell us we're being pimped?

Come on out in the free world and make a buck. Struggle, employ, meet with bankers, make a payroll, write checks for health care, pay insurance, market, advertise, sell, scratch to make ends meet, & then tell us about taxes.

Until then, your 'cred' is sketchy.
Same old. Same old. Any time you don't have an argument, you break out the old "government worker" shtick. In the future just say "you win" less letters.
By the way, my father owned a grocery store around the time I was in high school and college, so I know something about those things you talk about. Probably as much as you Mr. Government Worker, Policeman.

[mostpost]

Same old. Same old. Any time you don't have an argument, you break out the old "government worker" shtick. In the future just say "you win" less letters.
By the way, my father owned a grocery store around the time I was in high school and college, so I know something about those things you talk about. Probably as much as you Mr. Government Worker, Policeman.
Or am I thinking of JustRalph?

[Lefty]

Yes, mosty we vote for government, but just because we voted for it, doesn't mean they're supposed to ignore the constitution and run wild with OUR money. I still say, that us pipples, can spend our money more wisely than the government. You want more govt spending, I want less. I guess you think Keynsian economics works. I don't think so.

[JustRalph]

The tenth amendment covers your concerns. Btw, of those things that you list, there is not one thing that cannot be done better by the private sector.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

You act as if the Government is something that came down out of the sky and we had nothing to say about it. We voted for this government. At least more of us voted for it than voted against it. If you don't like it too bad. When the Republicans were in power it was because more people voted for them than voted against them. I did not like it. Too bad.

This conservative idea that government should provide only what is enumerated in the Constitution is dumb beyond belief. There is nothing in the Constitution about providing roads. Would you want to drive around the country without the interstate highway system. The Constitution says nothing about regulating airplane travel. Would you fly without the air traffic controllers. Would you go to a doctor if the government didn't license physicians and regulate their treatments. There is nothing in the Constitution about airplanes or doctors. There is nothing in the Constitution about a National Weather Service. Do you think it would be a good idea to live in New Orleans and not have hurricane warnings?

Of course all this is just another way of you ignoring the proven fact that lowering tax rates does not result in higher revenue. Keep the faith, baby.

[bigmack]

By the way, my father owned a grocery store around the time I was in high school and college, so I know something about those things you talk about.
Is that guilt by association or qualified?

Your fixation on taxation is eerie. Last time I checked anyone in the productive world asks for accountability. In your world there is never enough tax and you welcome the Fed to print.

My guess is if you were Pres, your image would be printed on the bottom of urinals & toilets throughout the land. :cool:

[newtothegame]

Is that guilt by association or qualified?

Your fixation on taxation is eerie. Last time I checked anyone in the productive world asks for accountability. In your world there is never enough tax and you welcome the Fed to print.

My guess is if you were Pres, your image would be printed on the bottom of urinals & toilets throughout the land. :cool:

Kind of a lofty position your giving him Mack....sure he's worthy?? :lol: